Oh, podcasting 2.0 for June 24 2022, episode 91 We're
splitting the time.
Friday again, hello everybody. Welcome to podcasting. 2.0 It's
a podcast but more importantly, it is the board meaning of
podcasting 2.0 where we talk about everything happening at
podcast index.org What's going on with the namespace, the
podcast standards and of course all the brainpower that comes
together at podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry here in
the heart of the Texas Hill Country in an Alabama he slays
API scrapers with a flick of the wrist my friend on the other
end, please say hello, Mr. Dave Jones
We scissor everything we are singing Thank you. We are
scissoring big time today.
I'm sorry, that sounds completely wrong doesn't
mean this. You got you just rigged it up. I was not
expecting this. I was not expecting you to have new rig
edge. Yes, rig edge is in the studio and
Okay, so I might as well explain exactly what's happening. I have
the road caster Pro two.
It came in, it came in and
Okay, so for people listening, they'll be like, Well, it sounds
different doesn't sound right. Of course it's not.
Because trying to set the sound of a new device is almost like
wine tasting, where you taste some wine and you're like, Okay,
I liked that. It didn't like it. But then you have a palate
cleanser. You know you have a palate cleanser, or you spit it
out and then wash out your mouth. You can't do that with
your ears. You know, or at least not heard no way. First off.
Yeah. What I heard when I first attached to the clean feed was
what sounded to me like
somebody had drugs. Should I even say it?
I don't want to pollute the the ear like pollute the mind.
Pulusu if you say what you heard then people will probably take
take offense. I'm not going to do it. I'm keeping it to myself.
Yeah, I'm keeping his mess. I mean, I'm trying to be a Somali
a in it's not that I don't want an audio Somalia. Yes, exactly.
Yes. Yes. Yeah. I hate the way it sounds at this moment. It's
it sounds boomy, it sounds roomy, I'm not quite sure what
to think of it.
But we'll just you know, we'll just do the show. See, see how
we get through it. And then I can adjust stuff accordingly.
Well, what is your overall yes impression? Yes. This is what I
wanted to Gosh, it doesn't sound like I'm talking through a 1950s
microphone. Is that just my ears? Now? It does a little bit.
It does a little bit, but it's not a bad thing. No, it's not
like Yeah, you sound mostly like yourself to me. Okay. Like, I
don't know exactly what I mean by that. Because I don't know
enough about audio to know what particular things right. Like
your your tone. Yeah. And like,
how do I describe
the way it feels like it's EQ and the tone and everything is?
That stuff feels right, that does that does feel right. Okay.
Well, this is that's exactly what doesn't sound right. To me.
To me. It sounds like
well, then you're probably right. And I'm completely right.
No, no, no, no, no. I mean, it's, again, you know, I have a
hearing problems no matter what.
Okay, here, let me let me do terrible. Half, half as attempts
at describing Okay, when you're not your music guy, you know
what, you know what audio sounds like? Okay, it sounds like
you are.
Okay, the difference between you remember how like in the old
days you would have
look on a CRT,
the image would be, well, you could always tell that the image
was slightly on the back of the glass. So there's always a
little bit of distance between the front of the glass and where
the image was.
It feels sort of like that, but with audio. It's like it feels
like there's a sort of gap between my ears and your voice
whereas what I'm used to with you is feeling like you're right
in my eardrum like, which is what I want to be. Yeah, of
course. Yeah.
I'll be honest with you. That's kind of the spot that I'm hoping
for. Yeah.
I feel like you're
you know, you're not you're not right up in. You're not You're
not punching my eardrums like you normally. Yeah, I know.
Exactly. I know exactly what you're talking about. It's
there's something going on. There's something I actually do
think it's EQ
because I think although you know, actually I did just a few.
It only has a three band parametric EQ, which is
I wish it were at least five
Over six, you know, because you just can't you can set the bell
curve, but you just can't get to the right. And to me, it just
sounds boomy. I hear the room. You're not hearing that.
I don't really hear maybe I'm not. I don't know what I hear,
honestly. Okay. I don't know what I hear sounds. Normally
you're just so present in the ears. And this feels like
there's a little bit of a gap. Yeah, that's what I don't
understand. That's so weird.
What? What it what is it about?
About the Motu? Well, that
well, has that sound? Well, first of all, it's always going
to be the it's going to be the the mic preamp, there's going to
be a lot of different things.
But it's actually quite a logo, almost a messing around with
stuff while I'm talking. It's a very, it's a very, it's a very
low grade kind of preamp. The whole thing is it's really meant
for for stage monitors. It's not even meant for what I'm using it
for.
But it's also I've tweaked it over, you know, years and years
of using it into something that I really love. I mean, it never
happens right away. It's just
goodness. It's just sweet talk and you got to sweet you do you
got to sweet talk. But now let me talk about the device for a
second. Okay, these guys fucking nailed it.
They nailed it. Oh, that's not really nailed it. I still have
to get the sound right. But they nailed it.
In fact, it feels very much like the podcast or Pro that Sergio
and I built back in the day. It has kind of the same. They can
see they solve things the same way Now, mind you, I saw these
things eight years ago, but okay.
This is this is your Trend your 10 years. Yeah, exactly. 10
years. Your Thank you very much. 10 years too early once again.
Even with the way the way I've got to stop you. I can't help
it. I have to stop you right now.
What you just hit the bell. Yeah, I know. I know what you're
gonna say. And then you heard the noise gate go out. And then
the bell stopped. And then I started speaking you heard the
bell in the background. I heard your I actually heard you your
hand. I could hear the the post in the bill going up and down.
Where instead of just that instead of just I heard
like I can hear that. Yeah, like, that's some and I don't
what is that? What is that's, that's one of those sound
effects.
Okay, but, like that's what I mean. I think there's some
there's way too much compression somewhere something is over
compressed, and I'm picking up the whole room.
It's interesting, because no one else seems to hear that. And was
like, No, sounds good. Like, are your neighbors pouring concrete?
Exactly.
Okay, sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt though. It's okay.
That's okay. Let me try. Oh, wait a minute. How about this?
This this this? I think I found something. Oh, yeah, I think I
think I found a little magic touch here. Hello. Hello. Hello.
Normally that sounded better. Sounds better. Right? Yeah.
Okay. Ooh, we're catching button. I did. Oh, I'm not gonna
tell you what it was either. Otherwise, you're going to be
touching it baby.
Magic Button. I don't want you to touch it the magic button.
Okay. Now I feel better. That that's really good. Yeah, it you
know what? It's okay. So the part they did really, really
well, which I wasn't expecting was they have a final, you know,
an end, what do they call it the master Compeller. And the master
compiler is, you know, it's basically a it's a it compels
the signal. So you can kind of mash everything together. This
is what was missing from every single device. And on the road
caster, the original version. They they had it, but it would
only do that in the export of the audio file. I wouldn't do it
live in real time. So now they have it in real time. It you
know, I still need to do a few things here. But that was a
magic button that really that made a huge difference.
And you're using that button is called the Compeller. The mass
is not just the compiler. It's the master Compeller.
The master compiler and I don't understand this master compiler.
It's like a compressor limiter. It's a compression limiter
basically. Now you probably also don't hear me as delayed as you
were thinking before. Does it feel like the CRT screen is
closer now? Does it feel a little bit closer? Yeah, it
feels Yeah, it feels like I've put it feels like I put on
reading glasses. Now. It's just a little bit closer.
Now what I want is that I want it I want it right
I had him rattle my eyeballs. Yeah, that's where I want to be.
He says, okay, yeah, this is, I'm gonna leave it the way it is
for now. So I'm just gonna get back to my review. Okay, yes,
this thing is completely configurable. You can put it
together however you want. It has three USB interfaces, split
up over two different USBC plugs. So you can split
functionality between two different computers if you want
to. That'd be really, these guys thought of everything we thought
of. I mean, but they went way beyond, because it's in a
beautiful box that got faders. And ours was all software, we
were never intending to have a whole physical box with faders
or anything.
It's, I have to say, blows me away. And now that I'm starting
to figure out the sound a little better. I'm going to be really
happy with this box.
That I mean, it sounds I can tell about the sound that the
sound is there. Like, yeah, it's there. You just got to dial it
like the other day. That was no, I didn't have it would never be
there. Now. It didn't have it didn't have it at all. So can
you do? So what about the physical interface? Like the
buttons and the triggers? Oh, that was I mean, you're using
any of that. Yeah, I actually I loaded up the cars.
Just for use sake, I really want to be able to use the Smart pads
for for instead of a cart deck that I have, because then you're
dealing with yet another screen and with you know, and I was
that's and I basically just had this cart deck open and I mouse
over and I'd click on stuff. I used to have a touchscreen. But
you know, touchscreens are a real pain in the ass and, you
know, your computer reboots. And that, oh, it's misconfigured
memory, how many times you went through that shifts? Yes.
Horrible. You had an iPad at one point where you're triggering, I
think, yeah, but that one had its own problems because it
would work through
through the network. So it would talk to your to the program on
your computer. So you had to be either on you have to be on the
same network segment. And then invariably I go to a hotel and
then you can already imagine how that would go down. Oh, Lord
trying trying to route my iPad to trigger something through the
hotel network routing? Yes. And that's not going to work. And so
that actually, so I haven't loaded in my eyes aren't quite
good enough to see exactly what I have to get. Get used to where
all the buttons are. That's the most important one. And that
one, of course. So is are these mp3 Is that you load into the
into the hardware. Yeah, there's a software companion software
that you can also you don't need the software at all, you don't
need to hook it up to a computer and the thing will work.
The metering is good as it can be used for anything. You could
use it for your band, you could use it to record I mean, I
haven't probably they've got a lot of effects in there, which
will be fun once I've got the actual sound worked out. And
that sounds yeah, I've got all that the way I want it, like
demon voice and all that is go EMB you can actually set the
depth. So you know, cuz usually it's kind of lame, these things.
And you know, they have all their standard sound effects and
like, Oh, that's so nice. You know, I have a DJ Khaled sound,
I ripped that out right away go away.
Like, so could you use it on Linux without any problems?
I don't see why not.
That will once I have it working here on the you know, just on
the Studio Windows box, then I'm definitely going to try it. I
mean, it seems, it seems like these two interfaces would work
perfectly with whatever you know, is standard. There's
nothing there's nothing fancy about it. So yeah, so then it
would just be a matter of the the other software that I use,
which is Windows based, but that I can run in wine, I'm okay with
that.
You know, my, my midi control players now with this thing can
also do because now I have a small What is it is a Korg nano
controller, which which I use. It's a MIDI controller and I
control eight different players. So if I have clips lined up, I
want to do a sequence of things. So that controls that. But I
could also map the faders on the road caster to do that as well.
And how's it mean, how does it do that? Oh, you map it you map
you have to map the you have to map the faders through MIDI and
right. Oh yeah, it's all MIDI. Okay. Yeah. I mean, you've
already got that you've got the MIDI setup. Yes. Yeah. But I
mean, I might try it with the with the with the road caster
I'll have to see. So but that's, I have to say that's what I like
about it's very configurable. You can change you know you have
Was it six faders. And then you can have three virtual faders,
which you can control separately with one knob. I mean, it's
right down to the, you know, if you have an external outputs,
studio monitors which I have a small studio speaker,
when you open up the mic speaker goes off close the mic, then the
speaker goes on. So that'd be more for like a music program.
Also, if we were listening to a clip, I can talk back to you
outside of the recording.
I know what I mean like
so so if so let's say, just for argument's sake, I'm doing a
music radio show and record is playing and I'm going to have
you on as a guest, I can get you on clean feed, and then I can
talk to you and we can talk to each other outside of the
broadcast. Just by me hitting two buttons, and then I release
them and then I can bring you in on the air. You see what I'm
saying? It's called it's like a talkback.
Yeah, like a like an IFBB for a nice show. Yeah, exactly. Right,
where I could even whisper something in your ear while
you're speaking.
That, you know, but it wouldn't be recorded when we go over the
broadcast. Like right if you're like, if you're trying to tell
me not to answer that question from the reporter. Exactly. Or
next time we have a guest and we're like, Oh, dude, like come
on, man. Let's move this guy along.
Like that. I mean, that's that's that's pretty sweet. I can
already tell like I want this thing but I can already tell
there's way too much stuff and stuff that I could I could screw
up well, okay, so and I'll say they did something else they
have wizard so they do have setup wizard and they have
a standard or a couple of different standard settings that
they preset for you. So it'll sound kind of good. I found the
manual to be pretty reasonable. Oh, yeah. Pretty good manual.
It's it's online, but you know, it's put into sections and it's
it's good. Especially for the price I think I was like 500
bucks or something. Now I was hearing that it was
the gain was enough to power anything without an external
device. Is that true? On the microphone? You mean? Yeah, like
could it could it power an RT 320 with 100% Lift 100% And it
also in I love this with my poor little ears you can set
different impedance headphones. To the headphones. I have the
headphones right now up to five on a scale of 10 Typically I'm
at 11
Oh wow. On any other device? Yeah, because I'm deaf. Yeah,
cuz I don't I can't wear my hearing aids. That would be fun.
That would I would really
be really bad.
So you so you can
so that's the things got a really killer microphone amp.
Yeah, I mean, the headphone headphone amp or headphone amp
also also Mike app and you know, that's one of their selling
points is you know, you can't you wait until you wait until
you see our
winter you hear our preamps and again Yeah, you don't need a
cloud lifter.
Ah, see that's I've got that in my chain right there right.
Yeah, yes, right here is with either me ended up pulling the
trigger on this after a few months. Dave, you will love this
device. Awesome. Yeah. And he really really well, I'm you
know, I'm still gonna have to you know, bicycle around and
twiddle the knobs and you know, figure out exactly what works
but already I'm so much happier now that we found the Compeller
issue that compelled no no go I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, it's
just a I mean, if this is the perfect show, you know full
scissors to do this because then you can take you can listen back
to this and figure out what exactly what tweak before you
just unleash it'll no agenda because Exactly. That's when you
get
you don't sound right.
Well, what's interesting is you sign you sound the kind of great
right out of the box.
I mean, that's just normal. Okay, there it is. All right.
Thanks. Make everybody's device sound good.
Everyone's device sounds better with Dave. Yeah, just slide it
in. Yeah.
One other thing one other techno bullcrap if you want me to just
pass this along as I got to Starlink that that came
yesterday, this box or the day before yesterday, this box came
today. This is the internet satellite satellite internet
from
SpaceX.
Okay, and you have this you sent me a picture this sitting on top
of your of your generator. Exactly.
So which is perfect combo that's the beautiful, it's exactly what
you want to see. Exactly. So it's really it's like it's
four pieces. What you get a dish you get to stand for
A dish and you have the
like Wi Fi router in one, and you put the dish into the stand,
click, you take the wire, you run that into your house,
somehow I just for ease of use, I put everything into the, with
the pool equipment is that's inside and I can just open the
garage door and close that don't have to drill a hole yet while
I'm testing it.
Then you plug the the antenna wire multi plug into the into
the base unit, you plug in the power cord, you plug the cord
into the wall,
it boots up you they have an app and that app is what you use to
configure your network name and your password. And that's it.
And by the time you've done that the satellite dish has already
positioned itself automatically and it works.
So I mean, it was that mind boggling 10 minutes from from
taking the stuff outside to it working.
So you're telling me that like you just you plug the thing in
and it begins to move and zeroes in on the satellite. Yep, the
minute it has power powers. How does it know? How does it do
that? Oh, it's magic, I don't know. Well, so this dish, it's a
rectangular dish. You have to look at it online rectangular
dish, and but it's concaved. And I presume there's some there
obviously there's a motor in there, that mate maybe the GPS
part is in there. That's all I mean, that's all got to be. I
don't know if the transmitters in the little box itself or in
the dish, I have no idea.
But the minute has a signal and it knows its own position, it
just seems to zero in on everything.
So this, I started to look this up this thing up on SR to Google
it. And
first thing I see is SpaceX Starlink, risks becoming
unusable if dish gets 12 gigahertz spectrum
is what what is what does that mean? If if dish, at least on
that Dish Network? Yeah. Okay, I think I can explain this.
Now, the Dish Network is going to use 5g at. But that's, I
think a 12 to the 12 gigahertz spectrum. Okay, this is going to
be in the same or close to the same spectrum as the SpaceX. So
you know, if you have signals on the ground that are blasting
around at the same frequency, the dish is going to pick that
up or it's going to there's going to be a possibility of
harmonics or
it's basically, you have a very weak signal coming down and
going up from space. And then you can have these really strong
signals 5g on the ground.
That's the process. That's the
it's the same problem that the FAA is claiming they have with
the
what is it the
automatic flight systems in aircraft, why they can't have 5g
near the airfield, because that will interfere because those
systems also use a form of that frequency to measure the
distance to the ground.
Says the letter goes on to say a 5g cellular network using the 12
gigahertz band would blow out and easily interfere with a
consumer Starlink access. Yeah, and they said it wasn't like 70%
or something it would it would it would ruin 77.5% of the time
is what is this interference that causes degraded service
77.5% of the time not to be specific or anything but 77.5%
of the time, bro, just like podcast as
the so like an interesting conversation related somewhat
related to this as I was
from my day job. I was meeting with Verizon rep yesterday, you
know, and he was telling he was telling me that they they're
pretty if I understood him correctly, they're sort of
abandoning that whole initial thought with 5g where they were
going to put like this dense mesh of block by block a
transmitters, Verizon or in general, I think in general, but
that was the whole point is to have all these micro cells. I
know we haven't been Fredericksburg. They've got
micro cell 5g All up and down Main Street. Well, he he's he
said this is sort of a recent thing because Verizon
specifically bought I think what he called the C band.
I don't know exactly what he was talking about. They bought that
from the SEC or well, they license a license that licensed
it Yeah, licensed it. They licensed it away. This is the C
band isn't that the old like the huge dishes? No way am I okay,
keep talking. I'll look it up. I'll look it up. I'll see what
okay. He said he said that they they bought this I think he said
the C band and he said that. This allows them to have 5g
speed, five gig 5g speeds
without having to do the block by block mesh thing. And that
that is going to be so much easier because the the CDs that
they were trying to put these dense these mesh things in. Were
like charging them a fortune. They were like, yeah, so they
want to have just one bigger, bigger transmitter to cover a
certain area. Yeah. And he said it's almost he said they're
using their staff. They're just using now that they have this
frequency. He said they can get 5g speeds with just their
standards, antennas they already have on on towers. He said they
don't need to do anything else. They don't need to put any sort
of micro or millimeter wave or whatever this is it. No, I know
they don't have to do it. But they're missing out on a huge
market, I think in that case, because then then they can't do
with the vehicle tracking and pedestrian tracking and all that
stuff. The way he talked about it is the see the downtown areas
and the seniors. These municipalities were charging
them so much money that it wasn't it just wasn't fazed
everybody. Yeah. Everyone thought it was a bonanza. Yeah,
and so they were like, trying to trying to get approvals and pay
off everybody's this now we're just gonna call back. So you see
band is between four and eight gigahertz. So that's not very
high. And so so you can actually go a lot farther with that.
Yeah, I mean, he acted like it was the pennant. He was like
the, you know, the golden egg. They're like, Oh, yeah, we you
know, we're good to go. And we're still going to call it 5g,
even though we've completely changed how it changes
everything. Yeah. Which makes sense to me like Birmingham,
Birmingham, they don't have any of that they don't have any of
that mesh stuff. None of those stuff. None of those was it
really supposed to be mesh, I didn't think it was supposed to
be mesh other than a bit more individual nodes that can do
certain things and have very high throughput at close range.
I'm calling it mesh and that may be the wrong terminology.
I'm talking about what you're talking about where you just
have like literally every block has its own little Yeah, okay.
Right. Yeah, just one for the block. Yeah, and you just which
cannot can also be used to heat up your bacon if you're camping.
Stand here and you're good to go. You'll never sleep again.
Hey, the show The show is lit once again. Which means we have
the live item blasting. And we've got people in the in the
chat room and it's this system seems to be working pretty well.
I mean, I always follow the podcasts podcast Live account. I
think it is. Yeah, I love that thing. It's great. Really fun.
Holy moly.
What just happened here? What what is it? Well, because you
know everything is still new. I don't have the I don't have the
booster gram sound potted up. And so I just flipped over to
hell. ypad
Hey, Tarr
just me I gotta count the zeros. Just oops that US 5 million
Satoshis podcast.
Holy crap. Are you serious? Yes, is it and it's for this show for
for the the live the live show. Let me read the boosted ramp
Sorry to interrupt.
Please.
Pay tar says this is a Bitcoin Public Service Announcement
defending freedom money requires eternal vigilance. There will
always be scammy companies out there trying to steal your
Bitcoin these charlatans are starting to make their way into
podcast and 2.0 ecosystem. Oh, listen to the advice from Uncle
Marty and Uncle Matt. Stay humble stack SATs hold your own
keys. Don't use leverage. Don't yield farm. I love you all go
podcast thing.
Can I have a T shirt? Yeah, you can have a T shirt.
I'll come over there and put it on your pizza. Holy crap. Whoa,
5 million says what is what even is that? As far as like
conversion goes? It's beyond what I do on a daily basis. So
thank you, Peter. I mean, bro. Your bra is like how did the
chip My question is how did the chip was that an app payment?
Because how did that channel survive? I'm actually looking
at.
I'm looking at some. That's $1,000 Dave holy cow. Thank you,
brother. Oh my goodness. Do you so let's see. Oh, I'm
dumbfounded by that. This I think is well, bombshell. We
know that's what I'm looking for.
Hold on. I'm all messed up. Now. I got I'm on the new rig. You
can't find it.
I see I thought I put big baller in there. I can't imagine that I
didn't do that. There's a baller in there in the rig somewhere
it's it's the green button hit it quick Hold on a second. I'll
get your I got your baller right here into this
podcast
shot Carla 20 This blades on I am Paula Oh man. Amazing
ambitious 5 million sets get you a t shirt. Yes, yes, yes,
definitely. Crap. Alright, what are we talking about? I
completely I completely lost my train of thought that was
excellent way to derail the show please. By all means derail this
puppy that oh man that is fantastically amazed that that
channel survived Um, I'd have to learn real quick to see to see
exactly what's what happened there. Where did that come from?
Did that come out? Let me take a look. I mean, it came from curio
caster. So that went through LNP I guess.
Let me see REO caster. Yeah. So that yeah, that's deaf. That's
that's an LM or maybe it's an lb, maybe it could be lb Yeah,
but we let me see. Let me let me check the channels here. Which
is is kind of my responsibility.
is in the he's in the chat and my feet are Where did where did
that come from? Did that come from? From an lb? Cuz if it came
from Ellen pay, I think we have to get a big chat we get.
We have a 10 million Slack channel with them. Let me okay.
I don't see it yet. Oops. Oh, now all of a sudden, I'm hearing
some sputtering noises. You hear that? Eric says it came from his
heart.
Let me see if it was through LMP.
Whereas LM, yeah, that went through LMP. Ellen pay, okay.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay. If anyone wants to try and top this, please don't do more
than 1,000,370 SATs because that's what we still have left
in the channel. This thing we got. We got to rebalance this or
something. Roi balances. Roi.
Nice. Thank you, Peter. That's That's fantastic. Amazing. Well,
so yes, that's what I was saying. The show was lit that
and the minute I said that, boom, that happened crazy.
Oh, well.
Yeah, they kind of they kind of threw me off there.
So do we want to talk about the
want to pick up with the value for value? The the ethics? Yeah,
we have a couple of things to discuss. One of them? Well,
first of all, I would maybe we should we kind of buried the
lede here. For me, the news of the day, congratulations to
Oscar and the team at fountain. What a great article in Bitcoin
magazine. You know, for sure, of course, they forgot to mention
podcast and 2.0 and us, but it's okay. That's actually I'm
actually very happy because it it, it just looks like it's
something that's mainstream, you know? Yeah. I'm always happy
when other people tell our story. And so this is the
well, it, I guess it it kind of launched as a get paid for
listening to ads, but then it became or maybe that was the
original intent. And then it morphed into, well, you know,
you get sad for listening to certain shows that are promoted
certain shows get a five times and the gamification just like
brother started to blow my mind about how cool that is. Yeah,
yeah. He had given us a heads up on it the other day and then
see, it was good to see the reception and appreciated pod
land yesterday.
Because of the juxtaposition between Yes, the
what it was like the eighth the eighth, so that was very hard to
find. Yeah, that was very hard to follow that conversation. I'm
glad Sam understood it because I'm just like, Why did how does
this entity there? Yeah, it's funny, but he seemed he seemed
very mean about Bitcoin unnecessary. Maybe I just
interpreted it that way. Yeah, I was having a hard time following
that whole thing, too. Because it seemed it seemed like it was
going to be something open and it sounded very proprietary.
Yeah, I didn't really understand but then, you know, then Oscar
came with, you know, talking about fountain and it just,
it's, it's this, it's just open. I mean, I'll just, everything's
just open. I mean, like, it just uses lightning. And in plugs
into this. I mean, obviously stuff within, you know, within
in his system, paying back for listening and that kind of
thing. That's, you know, his own deal. It's kind of cool, though,
when you're when you're listening to a podcast, and then
you see this counter at the top, which is going you know, you
don't I don't exactly know the speed at it, but it's like click
Satoshi. Satoshi. Satoshi. There's something very exciting
about doing that. And then I also listened to one of the ads
and it went click, click, click, click clicking okay, that's,
there's something cool about that payback.
Next system and of course for onboarding people, so they have
some SATs so they can get that value for value joy. Before you
end buying your your first Bitcoin I, you know, I'm
I'm typically not a fan of buying customers it's you know,
it's like a very subsidizing it's a very Silicon Valley kind
of way to do it. But in the context of value for value kind
of works, it felt comfortable. It felt good. It also felt
exciting.
Yeah, I think I think it's nice to have a way to, to have a sort
of
false it, but without it being. Yeah, without being an actual
faucet that someone has. Yeah, it's a faucet for engaging in a
community rather than just a faucet for just just like a
traditional a come, we'll just give you some stuff. And you
actually have to do, you got to sit there and do so you got to
work on a piece of work.
Exactly. Perfect. I mean, it's a little me it's a little chancy.
But it's, it's kind of true, though, right? Because you're it
you know, it's easy to do 100% proof of work. I completely
agree. That's spot on. Yeah. I mean, I'm like you, I just
congrats to those guys. And I really, yeah, exploring all of
this stuff and trying to make it work. And I think the day when
they launched it,
I think there must have been a lot of SATs flowing. Because,
you know, we got a significant amount of I mean, not our
typical seven or $12 a day, he was more than that it was an I
don't know if that was a combo, someone else out there doing
some kind of, you know, crazy lit stuff or what that was, but
it was, I don't know, if there was something going on there.
Yeah, we get, we get a daily thing from the node every, every
morning that shows you know how much income for the last day
from SATs and it's dip, you know, like on a show day or day
after show day, it'll be you know, it'd be higher book, you
know, have a 50 bucks or something like that, but then on
a tip and
that's also boosts that come in during the show. It's not just
the 1% No, that's, that's every but it was like it was like a
Tuesday or Wednesday or something. It's like, oh, okay,
that's different. Yeah, cuz that's normally like $3, you
know? Exactly. Exactly. Bugs. Oh, wait, somebody launched
something that's kind of cool to to see that happen, is where,
where you see on a random day where it's normally, you know,
three to $5 worth of for the past 24 hours, and all of a
sudden, it's 20. You're like, whoa, okay, something happened.
I don't know what that was. But it's neat. It's neat, sort of
see those tremors in the in the lightning ecosystem. It's pretty
cool. There's, there's so much data to go through and to figure
out where stuff is happening where it's coming from. Yeah.
In I don't know about.
I don't I don't know how this maybe relates. But
I know that there was a lot of talk this week on the index
about the fees? And how Yes, you know, fee, should you should you
put the fee on top? Let me get us started. Get out of the I
know the genesis of the conversation, because I because
I found myself, you know, entrenched in it and also
bothered in a way by some of the things I was thinking or
hearing. And there was a conflict, we conflated something
on the previous episode, at the end, we're talking about no
agenda tube, and how no agenda tube can get paid.
or have some kind of split somehow for the bandwidth and
the storage of the usage. And
and I think as part of that we were talking about,
you know, no agenda tube also creates a feed for everybody.
And in that feed, there'll be an automatic split, which will be
or a fee, that's kind of irrelevant for the moment, it'll
be 20%. And, and, you know, so we were kind of bantering about
how would that work? And if someone you know, and we also
got outside of the value for value concept, and we're I think
we're a little too wrapped up in it. Oh, yeah. You know, people
just stream SATs, you know, there's still a programming
element that has to come along with it. And and when I say
programming, I mean from a podcast or someone, you know,
asking, you need to ask, it's not all just automatic.
But what happened then, is, there was a conversation on the
social, and Stephen B was talking about taking 20%
For curio caster, to which I said, Well, if there's any app
out there that's going to insert and take 20%. You know, I don't
have control over that.
An app could take 50%
Now, I wouldn't be happy with that.
So that's kind of where it came in to me is like well
Oh, how does that work? I mean, then, I mean, the feed is the
source of truth.
But it's not really true because there's still an open element,
and anybody could usurp that or do whatever they want. And it
doesn't have to be evil. It's it. You know, it's just all I
mean, if he feels that curio casters worth 20%, but that 20%
is 20% I'm not getting and, you know, I personally feel that's
too much. So that, to me, is the crux of it. Not so much as who
pays for it is about who pays for it.
Because, you know, there's a user who's using the app. And
they're presumably using it for free. And there's the money that
the user wants to send. And the user needs to be aware of that.
It's not just for the podcaster. But it's also for the
infrastructure, including the app you're using. So are we
talking about a best practice? Are we talking about, you know,
something that can be regulated something that the podcast or
control, something the user can control? We're missing an
essential piece, even though I love everybody and trust
everybody. I mean,
I look at breeze and I say, 5%, it's high, but they're really
giving you a full lightning node. And there's a whole bunch
of other things you can do with that, which is clearly related
to money. And I'm okay with it. If it was 20%, I wouldn't be
okay with it.
But
here's, here's the way it feels to me. So if the percentage of
what it is,
is whatever, the podcast app creator thinks that they need.
We're waiting. What do you mean, the percentage have? You got to
expand on that? Of who? Yeah, so. So if you have a, if you
have a, let's just say, you have podcast, podcast addict, okay.
And I noticed this better. Let's say it's a pod friend, you know,
Mark Martin has, is not making money on pot for him. So he
looks around one of these days. And he says, okay, in order to
monetize this and make it a sustainable business, I see that
we're getting this many donations, through boost and
booster grams. And I want in, I could make this a monetize, I
could make this a career, sustainable organ organization,
if I took 40% of all boost and boosted drives, right.
Then,
if that's if that's what he needs in order to make a go of
it,
I'm fine. I'm fine with that, is because for a couple of reasons
he's making he's making the decision if that means that he
has a more compelling app, the people, Mike, that people love
and migrate to. And he's doing that for 40%. Well, then, we'll
the ecosystem ends up with an awesome app. And if people
understand that he's taking that much on both the Creator side
and the listener side, women, how did you do it on both sides?
No, I mean, I mean, if people on the Creator side if the creators
understand that.
Yeah. And the listeners understand he's taking 40%.
They are also going to make decisions based on that as well.
And he may he he may lose listeners. I agree. Okay, so now
we're into the next part. The next part ID is at 40%. fee. So
that means 40% is gone, and then the 60% gets split up, or is it
40% of the 100%? It? So this is a good the way it's a critical
difference, I think, Oh, I do too. And that was the credit.
That was the criticism of understood it from hard hat was
he was talking about fountain. Yeah. And he he, I don't know
this. I'm going to accept that this is the case. Maybe you can
confirm this, that fountain. He was saying that fountain takes
their fees on top of the 100%. I don't know. And I don't know,
either. So
that's part of the problem is that has to be really clear.
Right? So if we can do it's totally doable. Well, and I
don't think Oscar is trying to hide it. I mean, I don't think
he's being dishonest at all. No, not at all.
So the way that it was envisioned in the spec, is that
fees were always taken out of the 100%.
So what would happen is, and I'm going to describe the
calculation this is all happening, you know, in state
and fast. But what is that mean?
When a payment is, is constructed it the splits. So
the listener says, Okay, I want to send 100 SATs per minute.
Let's just do that for round numbers. I want to do 100 SATs
per minute. There's a, there's two splits to actual splits non
fee splits in there. Okay. One for you at 50%. One for me at
50%. Yeah. And I'm then then it's immediately going to get
that adds, you know, you take that and say, okay, 5050, then
you, then there's a third, let's say there's a third fee split in
there for 10%. Well, then, what it's going to do is it's going
to take, the software would take 100 SATs,
subtract 10% of 100. From that, so it would take 10 SATs off the
top.
But, but what's happening is that now the podcaster is
subsidizing the listener.
Which is okay. But it's how is the podcaster subsidizing the
listener, because the listener is paying in the envelope, and
the listener is paying for everything.
Whether they like the app or not, they're there. They're
paying for the app. And they, you know, you'd have to go look
at the split to see what is being taken. So if it's a if
it's 100, Satoshis.
Intended for the podcaster.
Let me see if I can say this differently.
You,
the app is good. The apps are built both for the users
typically. But they of course, you it's like chicken in the
egg. Does the app exist without the content? Does the content
flow without the app? So who is paying for the usage of the app?
Who is using the app? In this case, the podcaster is
subsidizing it or is is giving part of their? I don't know, I
don't know the answer. There's a there's a payment to the
production and to the Creator. And there's a payment for the
index, and there's a payment for the app. And I think in your
scenario of okay, this app charges too much. That's great
for a listener to decide.
But do they really care if if they're just giving 100 SATs?
And that's it that you know, okay, so this app takes 40%? I
don't care, maybe they do. But if it's if it's really value for
value, then that almost should be a separate thing outside of
the outside of the split? You know, I'm saying? I think I
think what we're doing here is rehashing things that we've
already that we already sort of talked about a while back, or or
that were there at the beginning. And we've maybe
forgotten that they were there and that we already sort of
figured it out. Because what what happened at the beginning,
as we said,
you know, there's a separate
there's, there's gonna be a fee, the apps gonna take a fee, they
can they can decide what that fee is. The critical part is
they have to, they just have to be transparent about it.
Everybody has to know, to say, Okay, everybody knows, but
everybody knows where he is. But here's the thing. If if I know
that curio caster is taking 40%
I'm glad by the way he's not taking just to be clear, he's
not taking he's only taken 3%. But
for people listening, I don't want the Oh no, no, no one's
doing this is taken. But yeah, okay. But curio caster, Steven B
specifically mentioned 20%. So I find that it's talking about in
a to taking 20%. No, in the conversation in the thread,
that's where it started. But in the thread, it came down to
well, why would I charge 20%? As a hypothetical?
I don't know how, okay, as a hypothetical, it doesn't matter
if it's hypothetical. If that happened, I would probably tell
people try a different app. Use a different app. This guy's
taken money from me, I think it's too much you really think
it's worth it used that app? It's strife that I don't want to
have? I don't want to have that. But I don't think you can see
it. No, I know you can't control it. But we might as well talk
since something that happened there bothered me and other
people were also and there's still different opinions.
I mean, it's okay, so how about this, okay, just for the same
reason, we insert 5%. Now, because I think what we're doing
is just that valuable.
And when you know, what will everybody agree with that?
There's going to be apps out there if we and this is what I
said, this is the mark, the marketplace will correct that.
Because if we if we did that, I guarantee you that some apps
would stop sending that because it's completely volun
theory, like the, the way that if what I meant by start to say
you can't control that what I meant is, that's not exactly
accurate, you actually can control it somewhat by the power
of the microphone. You can tell your your leg. That's exactly
what, that's exactly what I'm saying. Yeah.
But I'd like Yeah, but But what what I was trying to get at
those like, I'm agreeing with you that you can you can exert a
measure of control over that influence. But what I was
intended to say was that you, you can't stop them from doing
it. No, of course, they what what will stop people from
charging exorbitant fees is
they know, they know that everybody knows about it, and
everybody takes a dim view of it. And some, for some people
like it, I don't see it any different is the way it works
today. Like for me, some apps that charge subscriptions aren't
worth it. And I just don't use the app. But some, some apps
that charge monthly subscriptions, I get enough out
of it to where I'm like, okay, you know, and I'll pay it and
understand what you're saying that that comes out of your
bottom line. But then what? What if your audience knows that
that's your responsibility to let the audience or our
responsibility, let the audience know that and say, you know,
hey, by the way, if you're using such and such app, just
remember, they take you know, they take a higher percentage.
So if you're pinging against send us money, just like you do
with PayPal, or Patreon or anything like that, you say, you
know, hey, you know, subscribe to us, send us a send us some
money on paypal. Remember, if there's a credit card, you know,
remember the credit card fees is to comes out of our neck comes
out of our pocket. Thank you. And there's there's exactly one
of the problems.
It's a marketing issue.
This is what hardhats problem was, he was like, Hey, I thought
it was sending this to the podcaster. That's bullshit. That
is that you're taking part of that.
That's obviously not how it's set up. And you're just gonna
have to live with that.
I just
historic? I don't know, I do. We should just do whatever. I have
no idea how to how to solve this. It comes down. You're
right. Yes. I'd like the apps to be transparent about it. And
I'm, you know, it's very small letters everywhere.
And I don't know the fees of every single app. I just I don't
know. And to be honest, you know, credit card fees, although
there's no credit card involved, you know, it's 3%. You know, we
could be looking at 789 10%, that could turn some people off,
if you tell them how much you're taking, you know, I'm saying
it's like, this is a transitionary period. And we've
never had dealt with this kind of flow in the value for value
chain.
So if anything, we need a lot of education from the app
developer, so people understand exactly how it works. And more
importantly, why. Because that was the exception I took to
heart hat is like he basically wants to use that app for free.
He says, I don't care that I'm using that app. And I'm
paraphrasing, that may not be all he feels at all. That's how
it came across. So yeah, if so, I don't want to use Patreon. For
anything I do. Because I know that and I'm not saying they're
bad guys, it's just that they charge high fees. Yes. And I
really just don't, I don't want to deal with I don't want to
donate, I don't want to donate $10 to a podcast and know that,
ya know, to $2 goes to Patreon or wherever to Patreon. Yeah, I
don't want that. And so I choose not to use it. And it's the same
way with a podcast app. If I if I as the listener know that a
particular podcast app charges a rate that I'm uncomfortable
with, I'll just stop using it and and find a different app.
But you know, Oscar had a great a great point he's with with
with with high fat, he was like, you know, you the fees go away.
We don't charge fees, if you sign up for for the premium for
their monthly thing. And to me, that's fine too, as like, you
know, that makes sense. Well, you
make money somehow and in we're giving you these two options so
that we're giving you an option so that you can you're in order
to be a success. And that goes this goes back to the very
beginning of what we have what we intended to do is everybody
makes money. This time the app has to make money. Tote app has
to be sustainable, of course, I mean, this was the original
concept. It just when I read stuff about 20% I just like shit
now we're gonna have to go and argue about that on shows and
stuff like that and I just don't want it you know, and do it
Find 5% acceptable maybe?
Now,
remember, we're getting 1%.
Right? And we're in, you're doing a fuckload of work.
Yeah. But that, you know if and No, no, no, no, no. And there's
no there's one other thing, people are looking at absolute
numbers right now
that all the money is shit, no one's making any actual gobs of
money here, particularly now that you know that we see the
prices down, because it's not like the Well, in our case, we
happen to have one person who understood the the new exchange
rate, thank you very much, hey, dar.
But, you know, so I just don't want people raising their their
rates, because if they, you know,
the same rate as if bitcoin goes down, then the rates go up, you
know, it just felt like rate inflation was creeping in,
because people want to make money, they're not making money
yet, but I've seen our 1% as the long game, and it may be 10
years, that will be actually kind of my timeline. And then
then there will be enough, there'll be enough mass. So I
don't want to scare people away with high fees. I guess that's
what I'm saying. And, you know, it just feels like 5%, I think
is a lot of money. And a lot. It's a high percentage
per user. But I'm not complaining. But I'm just
saying, I find it a lot. If you want to compare all the work and
what everybody feels, I may feel a little differently about the
index fee.
It's funny how much I disagree with you on this, like,
maybe not, it's not really about the the framing of it, but just
about sort of how it just doesn't bother me at all. As a
matter of fact, I want
people are want apps to start charging, start experimenting
with charging wacky fees, to see a bit of a fee, but the wacky
fee is being what's the see what happens is as a creator, I'm
like, Oh, that was a fun experiment. I just got 5% or
10%. Less. So that was fun. Don't you have to understand
from my side as a creators like, well, what are we doing? Now say
I'm a creator to now. And so and it comes out of our out of my
pocket, too. And I'm not, I'm not, to me, now is the time to
do it. Now's the time when, when a lot of podcasters are going to
may be going to this as as a expansion of their monetization,
or they're sampling it in order to figure out if this is viable.
That the this is the time for there to be all sorts of Wildcat
craziness so that we can figure out because here's, here's,
here's, I think I think I just realized what my what my
thinking is. Because we've we've been under the impression the
entire time that okay, 5%, or 3%, or 1% is enough to sustain
an app. But what if it's not? Well, at scale that this is this
is part of what I'm saying is I think people are looking at, I'm
not making any money on this. And you're certainly not making
a lot of money since Bitcoin went down by you know, 60 60%.
So that's much less. So I don't want to see these fees to get
out of control. Because people want absolute numbers, we only
have seven or seven and a half 1000 podcast that are using this
at all, we need 70,000 And then all of a sudden, it's going to
be a lot more attractive. All I'm saying here is in the let's
do it. Now I agree. And And right now, what I'm doing is I
do not have a market forces tool in this equation. The app has
the tool, they can determine what they want to charge, I
can't determine what the person is going to charge to. And I'm
saying I have no way to fight back other than when my
microphone, which is an inherently negative approach, I
don't want to have to be telling people don't use that because I
disagree with the fee. I'd like to try and find a way to
circumvent that, or to
kind of do something else.
I'd rather signal to an app, like I'm willing to give you 5%
versus you take whatever you want. And I'll just have to see
when it happens. I don't feel like I'm a participant in a
market.
I understand. I understand exactly what the what you're
describing you. What you're describing is, is you know, when
you say it, I don't want to get involved in the negativity to
try to fix up. Well, that's the only way that's the only way I
can participate in the in the pricing market of what I'm going
to ultimately receive or the splits that I've determined
which I love. I love that I can determine what goes where. But I
don't I don't. Right but I don't know that it necessarily has to
be negative because what you what you say like
Imagine a future scenario where there's seven, seven podcast
apps that are sort of in the ecosystem doing value for value.
And you as the podcaster are getting SATs from a sprinkling
of each one of them all the time. And you noticed that one
of them, you become aware that one of them has up is up their
fees. Also 25% The becoming aware part we still have to work
on but yeah, okay. For argument's sake, yes. Yeah.
Well, so I mean, it'll become obvious from looking at what
comes through, you know. And so if you, if you find that out,
and you say on your show, you know, hey, if you're using this
app, they take 25%. Just please keep that in mind when you boost
that. That doesn't, that doesn't even have to be necessarily
negative. That's just to say, That's reminding you That's
telling your audience, hey, this app is charging this much. And
the thing is, this is what I was trying to say while ago, maybe
they need to charge that much. Maybe the app in order in order
to let me finish the other real quick. Maybe the app needs to
charge that much. And if they do, and nobody else does, then
they won't survive. And the problem corrects itself. Because
they've overspent and their overhead is wrong, and they
can't get their business. They can't get their their
monetization strategy. Correct. Okay. So the problem here is,
they're not charging, they're not changing the amount of the
actual user, the pod, the creator is paying for the user.
For the users fee, really.
You understand? It's like, I'm not paying for your premium
subscription to fountain, you pay that, and then all then all
of a sudden, all fees go away. So if you don't pay for it, I'm
paying for it.
Right? So. But I'm not, but I'm not using the app. I'm okay, how
about this? I do have a market force,
the block tag.
But you do use the app.
You use the app as a credit. That's the that's the radio.
That's the receipt of the radio receiver. You Yes. Oh, dirt
without the receive? No, but I don't have to pay for radios.
I've never had to buy everyone a radio. But don't but don't you
though, I mean, everybody has to eventually. The the date always.
This is a fan, I understand exactly where you're coming
from. I want apps to make money. We designed this in this manner.
But
now we're at a point where the experimentation is is always at
the creators cost. Not an additional cost to the user who
is yes, my content is out there.
And I need apps for people to use it. But I feel like the user
should be paying for the experimentation as well, if it's
going to be 20%. I didn't do anything different.
So I just got less value for doing the same thing. I mean,
it's it may be a semantic argument.
It just it just doesn't feel right. That, you know, I mean,
but the the value. Value.
No. Okay, let me let me let me try it again.
The user at this point, the way it's been done, the way we've
set it up, does not realize they're supporting the app.
I don't think most of them realize that.
So it would be nice. If
somehow that became apparent when the when so that the user
can always be deciding if they if that's a good,
if that's a good value for them.
Now you get into a situation where they and Harv had been
around he's been he's been using apps for a while he's been been
boosting and streaming sites, to him the real. And I'm on his
side in this part of the argument. He says, Well hold on
a second, I'm, I want this to go to the podcaster. Now you're
taking a part of it, he clearly wasn't aware of how its
functioning. And
I just think there's there must be a better way so that the user
understands and that the user, you know, helps. I want users to
also be contributing towards the app and not just the Creator
always being the one who contributes their portion. Does
that make any sense?
Yeah, yeah.
I think it makes it yes, it makes sense.
Um, my argument is just that I don't think you can. You can't
do
I think the amount of
control that you're thinking of
it's not controlled, it's not controlled. But why wouldn't why
wouldn't you? Why wouldn't the user pay the extra when they're
experimenting with new features? Okay, that thank you for stating
it that way. That helps, that helps me, because this goes back
to what I say. And while the user does pay
your, your, excuse me, you, you do pay, you, as the creator,
always pay something. And you say, Well, you know, the user, I
don't, I don't pay for the radios, I don't pay for the
receivers.
Well, you didn't pay for it directly. But that $1,000
iPhone, that the that your listener bought, that's now
$1,000 less than they out of their budget that they could
possibly send to you. So they just, you know, the the money
that your listeners are spending, to get into the
ecosystem and to participate in the ecosystem does always,
ultimately come out of your pocket as well. And so that's
really the thing with the apps is that they, Oh, they've almost
been completely cut out of all of that. So Apple, you know,
Apple got their $1,000 for the iPhone. And then you have no
argument, no argument. It was I think I came to you with the
whole planet being the apps getting paid. My only issue is,
when there's experimentation in the pricing, the user will not
know about that, oh, I just I decided on Thursdays, I'm
charging 50% of everything, because I can't make it work.
Otherwise, this is not something you're going to advertise. I
don't think like, Hey, by the way, today's a special we're
taking 50%. Now, so the only way for that to happen is if someone
sees there's an additional fee that goes for the usage of this
app.
I think I think the user should if the app is doing crazy shit,
and feels it should should be more, you know,
it may go back to your
to the subscription, you know, people who support the apps by
getting the premium.
That's an additional that does not come out of the Creator. And
look, I have no problem sharing is just we have that's what I'm
saying it does come out of the creators pocket every every
amount that has to pay to set to something Oh, that no, that's
fungible? Of course not. Because they might eat a 10 French fries
less and then they can they have the same amount. I mean, that's,
I don't I don't think that's cool. But that's but is it is
directly related, though. I mean, when it comes to a podcast
at every every $10 subscription to overcast is $10 that you got
that you may not see. No, I disagree. That's not true.
That's just that's okay. I mean, the the person has a budget and
they and once they spend $10 and overcast, that means they spend
$10, less on ice cream. No, I said May May. I mean?
You said every I'm like no, that's that's just not true. You
don't know any everybody's budget. All I'm saying is, I
feel we're going to come to a point where there's going to be
an issue about the fees, and the listeners are going to complain
first, and then the creators are going to go well, why are you
taking this and I'm trying to circumvent that, and figure out
how we can make it work. So that, you know, I don't care if
someone wants to charge 20%. But if it's always coming out of my
end, I'd have my split of what someone wants to send to me,
because it's
6969. You know, these are the numbers that I'm telling people
to send. But I should really be saying since 6969, plus an extra
20%, because that app is expensive to use. I just feel
somewhere the user, the user who had has the Satoshis is going to
send them they also need to be determining whether that is
worth it to use that app and right now they don't they don't
know.
To me, to me, this is OS. This is self correcting. Correcting
right now this is my point. It's like Do you want me to seriously
start correcting now and say I don't want people to use this
app. I don't like that I don't want I want I want every app to
be used. Now, let me let me finish though what I don't mean
through I don't mean self correcting through the process
of negativity on a podcast What I mean is the self correcting
through the entire ecosystem. So look, look at where we are now.
years down the road with with pod with the podcasting the
broader ecosystem. You have company of industry watchers,
like Cridland, who write articles calling out
huge companies like, like a cast for sending spam emails in for
are and it has resulted in exactly nothing, they're still
doing it and they're just thumbing their nose at everybody
because they're big enough to do it, it's an eye and honestly, I
find it very sad to hear that. It's fucking sad. I don't want
that to happen with podcasting 2.0 That's a great example. When
I hear that, and I hear Kerguelen has to bitch about
that every single time and everyone's pissed off about it,
and it seeps into the content like that. I find it sad.
Okay, bad, bad example.
Example, because that's, that's the thing like arguing with my
work wife, this is fun.
That example, because that's a, that's a saying that listeners
have zero control over.
A better example would be if, if a an app started doing something
shady with monetization, you can bet that the industry watchers
would call them out. And then people would absolutely make
decisions based on being on being scammed or, or the
perception of being scammed. So like right now, the ecosystem
with lightning is very small. But if it if it if it continues
to grow, and apps begin to do things that are odd, or funky,
or fun, a funny money type things I can, I can guarantee
you that is not going to have to just be the podcaster that calls
that out. If if if fountain charges 5%. And then five years
from now, all of a sudden they go up to 20. Somebody's going to
notice and the whole industry is going to talk about it. It's
widely known, again, a cast has not slowed down. So that just
doesn't make any difference in the industry, because industry
is talking about it and they don't give a shit. People are
not as far as I know, they're not necessarily leaving a cast.
It's a strong arm move. But you I'd like to know when you say
people are going if apps are going to scam people. So when is
it a scam? Is it a scam at 5% 7% 15% 20%? When is it a
scam? I mean, that's that's that it's it's all up to
interpretation. It's not about whether I think it's a scam.
It's about whether or not they say that it's a perceived as
one. And I can't say when that is because everybody has their
own tolerance for those sorts of things. You know, I go I go back
to I just keep going back to this this idea that you're gonna
have, you're gonna have poorly run, you're gonna have
businesses, app podcast at businesses that can't get their
costs under control.
Look, was it podcast addict and non addict? Pot?
Pocket Casts pocket pocket? Yes, yes. So guests sold multiple
times, they lost all this money, like they were just losing money
left and right. They had really, they had a really hard time,
that really tough go of it, because they evidently couldn't
keep their costs under control. And they may have needed to
charge 20% In order to, in their eyes, cover their costs. But
ultimately, it's going to fail because they can't keep that
going. Because everybody when they see, okay, I can use Pocket
Casts, and they're going to charge 20%. And that's 20% Out
of the Creator's pocket, or I can go over here to cast ematic
He's charging 3%. And they are somehow able to make it work and
it's just as good of an app, well, then everybody's just
gonna bail and go to the to the app that seems to be able to
keep their stuff under control. It just seemed stuff. To me, it
just seems like self correcting with market forces.
I mean, it sucks. But I don't know any other way to do it in a
way that's open and does open source. No, the the only the
only difference we're talking about here is who feels the pain
when when an app fucks up and they can't control their their
their cost is the Creator who has to up the ante not not the
listener, not the user of the app. And the problem, and I'm
not doing any different. I'm not screwing up your app, you
screwed up your app and people are using your app. But I'm I am
going to be dinged for that. That's okay. I mean, and if
that's the way it is, that's the way it is.
It just seems to me
that
in order for people to understand what an app is taking
for a fee, for them, you for them using it so it's from their
money. The only way that people will really know is when it's on
top of the original amount they sent just like a credit card
that you know, you have to pay the extra, you know the courtesy
fee or whatever they call it. That's the way that market
forces will really see if it's worth it. There has to be some
pain for the user. The user gets no pain other than if they
happen to find out
Then they have to make all these decisions about the value of the
content that they're listening to, versus the value of the app.
I think. And maybe I'm not giving listeners and users
enough credit. But hard hat was an interesting example. He took
exception to it. And what did we get negativity?
Yeah, I don't know. I mean,
to me, it just seems like a
it seems like a, a balancing act between openness? Well, let me
let me give you the I'm sorry, let me just give you the
scenario.
It's no less or no more or less open, if the fee for the app is
put on, and and the index for that matter, is put on top of
what the person is boosting. And as shown that way, in the log,
we there's 3%, for using our app, I have the feeling breeze
does it that way, I'm not 100%. Sure.
Okay, that that to me, would be the preferred way to do it.
Because then then the user truly can make a decision whether they
want to continue using that app for that fee.
I don't disagree that I don't disagree with that, and I'm fine
with the index being, you know, being treated the same way, put
it in, you know, put us on top of it 1% For the index. And that
and that was always kind of the original idea.
breezes, the first one that went to 5%. But the original idea was
1%. For the I think we even were talking about 1% for the index
2% for the app, that will be kind of equal to a credit card
payment. And in my mind, it was always kind of treated that way.
Now, since
it's not that it's a false equivalency. But when it when
you use a card, and they say, Okay, we need to charge you a
convenience fee. That's when that's when you feel that that's
when you make a decision, right? Am I going to use this card,
which is a version of an app, I'm going to use this card for
this transaction, use this app for this transaction, this app
is charging me a convenience fee of 3%. Do I want to use it? Do I
not want to use it?
That That to me feels more fair. And it's just as open unless I'm
mistaken. No, I don't I don't disagree. I don't disagree with
that. And I'm fine. I'm really fine with it. Either way, I
think the
I think the fee coming. The fee coming from within the splits
instead of being put on top.
At least the way I saw it was that it was meant as a safety
mechanism for the use for the listener. Because if if an app
decides to charge 20%, would they're charging 1% one day and
20% the next then the user,
if if it always comes from within the split total, then the
user is never paying more than they expect it to pay. And if
it's if it's added on top, then all of a sudden they're paying
20% More, and they may not realize it. And I thought that
that was what Harv has complaint was that he didn't did it was
being taken from the top and he didn't realize it. And it was
like, Oh, what do you what do you mean, take over? What do you
mean, take it from the top?
I mean, add it to the top is what I meant.
That's exactly that's exactly the way I would want it to be.
Because and like I said, I'm fine with it. As long as we all
understand this, the way that and the reason why the factor or
the reason why is you set it right there, you know, the
reason it wasn't done that way was to protect the user. But
now, he has no protection for the Creator.
Now, lux x, I can see that argument being there's, you
know, that's
yeah, that's that's I just like my thing, not to belabor the
point. But my thing was just that if you're talking about if
you're talking about a listener who wants to give the creator
you have a have a listener who wants to give the Creator $10
If you add a $5 fee, and I'm just using bogus numbers, if you
add a $5 fee to it, and they know they're gonna have to spend
15 in order to pay 10 Then I don't know that it's really
ultimately any different to add it to the top or to the bottom
because I think they're gonna adjust what they paid down to
accommodate the fee, whether it's added on or taken from
within.
It's obviously a huge difference to me.
And I think
And then I think that's where you get your market forces,
someone will say, Well, this app is worth it and they charge x,
let's just use 5%. They charge and everyone else seems to be
charging 5%. So if someone's stuck, this is market forces, if
someone starts to charge 15%, which will be apparent because
you're gonna see you're, you're paying 15%, then immediately
people will start to make assumptions about, okay, well,
maybe I should be using a different app, versus
that that may be going undetected to the user, because
they're not always looking at their amounts that they, in
fact, when you boost someone now, you don't necessarily see a
report that says you will maybe some apps too, you also spent
five SATs on network fees.
That's also in addition, it's an addition to what the podcaster
receives.
So that to me feels, and maybe no one agrees with me. But that,
that, to me feels a lot more fair.
Do you think that so if if I have,
is if if I spend,
if I want to give you 10 bucks, and of that 10,
after the fee is taken, you end up with nine
versus the listener knows that if they they're going to send
you 10 bucks, they're gonna be charged one?
You, to me, I think that like,
maybe I'm an outlier. Maybe I'm maybe I don't think like other
people do. And this is a blind spot for me, I'm willing to
accept that possibility that, that if, because what I would,
what I'm going to do in every scenario is, I already know how
much I want the Creator to get
in, you can see it in the way I boost I want, I'm going to send
boosts that are numerically meaningful to me. Sure.
I know going into it, okay, I want the, I want this much to be
to be sent to the Creator. Now if I know, if I knew that the
fee was going to be taken added to the total, I would just send
that amount if I knew it was gonna be taken from the total, I
would jack it up to meet that what I wanted to send. So I'm
always going to adjust to get to the Creator what I want them to
have.
So to me, so to me, either one of those scenarios, they're both
they're not, it's like six, one half dozen, the other.
They're irrelevant to me, because I'm always gonna get
through what I want to get through. But maybe I'm
different. Maybe I'm not like everybody else on it. Well, so
you know, the way it's reported, you know, regardless of where
everything goes, if you send 6969, then that gets reported to
me as 6969 that comes in the to V record, but doesn't actually
represent any actual amount that that might have come through, or
that came through as part of my split.
Right.
And I'm willing to accept that I and I think this is important,
because I come to this as a creator, as a podcaster, who
actually lives and survives off of value for value, I have no
other job. So I'm very particular when it comes to
where the income is being split, separated, shared, etc.
The problem in the scenario that we're talking about is the
difference between
and and I'm not this way, and so but I don't I don't look at the
splits, I just hammer away and I just send it and that's it. And
maybe most people like that maybe people aren't like that. I
do know that the numerology is important. I know that the
numbers arrive. But I may not know how much is being charged
by an app unless I look at my own wallet and see oh, okay, I
sent $10. And
I, I paid an additional 30 cents
to use this app that I like using.
Does it my saying that right?
That's the 3% of $10. Yeah.
Okay.
30 cents, or 50 cents. So actually, I sent $10 And I know
it gets split up. However the podcaster wants that. And that
cost me 50 cents to support this app that I'm using.
It doesn't and that should be that's a market force. That's
something that user can decide right now. And know that that
the podcast they liked that they got what they want it now. If
if a podcast
The app wants to somehow, I mean, we can get into all kinds
of intricacies. chargebacks. I mean, there's a million
different things you can do. But that just seems like very simple
for people to understand. And maybe even, I think it would it
would keep that automatically keeps percentages in check, and
also creates enormous market forces for competition and
features and who has the best stuff?
Yeah, yeah.
But with but without the, without the, the, without people
getting pissed off of it on on any of the sides of the
triangle, you know, it can just be Oh, that that seems expensive
to me, versus? Well, I think that podcast is it's okay, you
know, it's really valuable, or I have to send more.
I don't know, it just to me, it feels like it shouldn't be an
addition to what the podcaster
receives? Or maybe it's 5050. I mean, that's another way to do
it. I'm okay with that. As long as it's in addition,
that made that that may be something that may be a way to
do it.
I mean, it's do you think people, so I just pulled up our
paper, our Pay Pal.
And what I see on the homepage here, is I see a list of
donations, and I see payment from Jordan Dunnville dances $10
as the payment from Christopher reamer $10, recurring payment
from James Sullivan $10. And on and on.
The will, if I click on payments received in actually drill down
into the ledger
assays something different now. I see. I see an actual ledger
that says Jordan Dunnville. Completed gross $10 fee. 93
cents net $9.07. Yes, of course. And so PayPal took from us. It
took from the Create. It's the exact same scenario took from
the Creator. 93 cents.
Yeah. And so Jordan, so Jordan Dunnville sent us 10 bucks, but
we only get $9.07 of that. Right. So you're so I allerease.
I bring that up as an example to say, I think that's what
everyone is used to. And what you're saying is that as part of
value for value,
that you think that as the philosophy of value for value
goes that we need to change that model. I think we need to
consider it because it
you are talking about value for value versus a processing fee.
And, you know, Pay Pal is currently I think at four or 5%.
And believe me, that works. It totally works. But then it's
exactly what you see everywhere. Merchants have to post. Please
don't use Pay Pal use this. Please don't I don't want to do
that. For apps, please don't use that app, because they charge
too much. And you know, we don't we don't make enough for or, you
know, send send extra. Ah, now I get it. Yeah, I understand that
the Peter Peters in this app chat. Maybe the best way to pay
the app makers to take a cut from the refill wallet function
instead of only instead and leave the boost dream amounts
alone. That's that's also a possibility. I think some I
think some are already doing that. Yeah, things breezes
certainly doing that. And I think fountains doing it if you
take money out. I mean, so Yeah, the thing is,
and I'm not too worried about people jacking up their fees,
but even 5% is high. That's high. It's a high percentage.
Now, do I think that it's not worth it not? But if you're
looking at absolute numbers, what does that equal in dollars
at the end of the month? You know, if bitcoin is 100,000,
because, you know, this is another thing a podcasters have
to continuously adjust
to the boost amounts.
Here's, here's my, here's the thing, where my part of where my
pushback had come from, was, I don't ever want to tell look
upon the podcast, app developer in the eye and say, and I don't
I'm not saying that you're saying this, but I would not
want to ever say that. It looked him in the eye and say you're
charging too much.
Because what what they charge is what? I'm going to trust that
that's what they have decided they have to charge. And that's
where that's where it gets uncomfortable for me is is
saying, Oh, that's too much. Because like, they just may not
be very good at running and running a business. Right and
I'd rather than just go
I honestly reduce them. If they can't compete with market with
market rates, I'd rather than, you know, whatever that happens
to be, rather than just go do something, something else,
honestly, I mean, it sounds that may sound bad, but I mean, like
that that applies with App Store fees, too. I mean, like, if
they're gonna have to charge $50 a month for an app for an app
for a podcast app on the subscription model in the App
Store, they're probably not going to be around very long,
either. Now, there's your perfect thing. There's your
perfect example.
Hundreds of millions of dollars in legal fees later, finally, we
realized that is not a good idea to charge 30%. Yeah. So if it
was 20%, it would have been the same lawsuits. If it was 15%, it
would have been the same lawsuits.
It's always going to be perceived as too much for
creators.
I personally,
you know, I put curio caster and sovereign feeds, I put them in
my block.
You know? And, well, there's no, there's an idea. Okay, hold on a
second. Let me think about this.
That is a way that
maybe a creator can signal and say, Hey, I'm okay with a 5%
fee.
And I'm going to put you or maybe there's a dynamic block, I
open up and put that right in there for you.
And maybe there's a default that we that we kind of agree upon.
But then anything above and beyond I mean, it just gets
weird. If PayPal all of a sudden charge 10% to 15%. First, we
wouldn't know about it,
then we'd figure it out. And then we'd be very, very angry.
Right? So but if
when you send
person to person, PayPal says, Okay, you can send this, you're
going to be charged 30 cents.
That's where the sender pays for it, versus a business paying for
it. So there's all there's all different aspects to this, and
that is truly market forces. I don't have the answer.
Maybe just this conversation is good enough that everybody kind
of thinks about what they're doing.
And this is worth having. Yeah, no, and no one is really hard of
how to think is the first real complaint that I've seen it. And
that may have also stemmed from, you know,
a lot of people went, Oh, Oscar is doing ads a day shift. And
there's a lot of different things, weaving in and out.
Yeah. And to Peter's point in his in his donation node,
that's,
you know, I mean, I agree there's going to be, yeah,
there's there's going to be scammy ads, I mean, the crypto
space, it's up to us to police that to, like, you know, because
the nature of ads is that if they get no response, you stop
hearing them. And so like that's up to us to educate people about
quote unquote, crypto and
crypto crypto to call and call out the scam. scammers out there
who are trying to you know who are trying who were in this for
a Ponzi scheme or whatever and call and call that shit out. By
the way. I haven't heard of anything what's going on? What
scammers are out there. What did I miss? I don't I mean, it's
evidently some ads running on fountain. I'm guessing I'm
guessing or within Oh, I know. Okay. Some of the ads were were
Crypto Ads. Okay. Yeah, I understand. Well, that's yeah.
Hey, you jump into the advertising business. That's
that's part of what you get, you know, you can't get out because
of the content and the ads you can get sometimes the people
like the content. I hate those ads. I mean, that's that's just
hard. As a blog fi and hodl hodl. Not I'm not familiar with
it.
Who knows? Is that the D that's D flat D. D? Yeah.
We'll see. That's it's up to us to call it out. You know, and
like that may not mean you but I mean, like everybody in the
know. I think you're right, a father in the pod sage. We have
to waive the scepter and call it out. Dammit. Yeah.
It's absolute pants. I do I do. You want to make it really,
really clear that I want app developers to be rich. I want
you to be successful. You hate app development. I want you to
be successful. I want you to be happy. I want everything to be
super. The part of the whole idea was to have everybody in
the ecosystem and the next not for this episode. We're also
going to have to figure out how that works with with hosting and
storage such as no agenda tube, and I'm so proud that we are
working through this
because these are things
that has to be talked about eventually. I mean, it's just
the maturity of the ecosystem it's getting. To me this is a
sign that they that the system is beginning to mature to the
point where you have these discussions. It's no longer it's
not just scissors anymore. I mean, like, it's rock scissor
papers, is hedge clippers.
If somebody can get hurt, you lose a hand that we're telling
you.
Can we thank people? Well, I want to take a detour real
quick, though. Okay, sure. I I can't it's not the right show
for this because I can't I mean,
I can't do an ask Adam. So I can ask, but I could ask the pod. I
can ask the pod. I don't have a jingle for Ask the pod father
but yeah, okay, but that's good.
So I'm listening to pod land yesterday and,
and Sam said he, he said something that I did not
understand if you would indulge us. Oh, yeah. Okay. That's the
pod father. All right. Here we go. Totally rubbish. That. I
mean.
Yeah, no, absolutely. Pants. I mean,
okay, what is absolute pants?
Okay, and I consider myself at least mildly fluent.
In, in what you might call
lingua lingua Britannia for the British, the British and British
isms. But I've never heard the phrase absolute pants before.
Yeah. And I would like to it means
rubbish. bullcrap.
Well as it pans, you know, let me take a look and see if I, I
mean, I lived in the UK for five years. So until I've heard this,
of course, it's kind of a nicer way of saying the Brits are
weird. You know, they use the C word all the time. The C word is
okay in the UK. You know, the See you next year, next Tuesday.
But you can't say Fannie, Fannie Oh, that's Fannie as Nast that
you can't say that. But you know, so it's
I wonder what that homology of that is. But it means bullcrap.
It's just a nicer wave. It's a funny way. I think it's when
kids grow up with oh, that's pants mother.
I've never heard that whenever that was that was a new one. Oh
my I just said I've listened to it two or three times. Like you
said, Did I hear you say pants?
Okay.
All right. Yeah, we can. Thanks for people. Yeah, Should I do
the we got a couple let me see now let me make sure I got this
right.
Now hopefully I got this right. I got a couple of these things
set up. I don't know did I get the road ducks? I'm really I
still have to work on this. Okay, let me do some of these
live boosting your rig. Your rig is the training era.
This is now all the muscle memory you know, I got to learn
which
which button is which
live boosts coming in during this lit episode 91 This has
value for value. And the way it works is if you like hearing two
middle aged guys argue with each other over who pays for the
bill. And you find that a valuable conversation, please,
because that was the whole show.
I guess it was important to us.
Then please support us you support a lot more than this
show. Of course you support the entire infrastructure of
podcasts index.org and everything that we're doing and
liquidity on the node as well which we really appreciate and
we're glad we had some today. And Steven B drains the channel
as well with 100,000 sat boost no Stephen B. And and this is
interesting because I guess this is a boost gone viral because he
repeats the same thing as pay tar and I will repeat it for
100,000 SATs I'll do a lot. This is a Bitcoin Public Service
Announcement defending freedom money requires eternal
vigilance. There will always be scammy companies out there
trying to steal your Bitcoin. These charlatans are starting to
make their way into the podcasting 2.0 ecosystem. Listen
to the advice from Uncle Marty and Uncle Matt. Stay humble
stack SATs hold your own keys don't use leverage don't yield
farm. I love you all a go podcasting booze.
Was that on the board?
My muscle memory is blue button and that was not the right one.
We got another booster gram from Steven B 1000 SATs I don't want
PE tars message lost in the excitement of the size of his
boosts. Oh, here it is again. Yes. Thank you. We got that from
you.
We got see. See Brooklyn 112 5000 SATs not five mil but
it's what I got. Thank you for your courage go podcast,
podcast.
Thank you very much, sir. Absolutely. And that's how value
for value works. It's not about how much it's what's valuable to
you. That's what it always comes down to. Then we have sir
Spencer 22,220
To my boost is not worthy Thank you pay Tara you are a legend I
completely disagree your boost is justified is anybody else's
and it's
roadex
Then we have the 5 million SATs from pay Tara and of course we
just read that note 1000 Or that was a anonymous Taurus Elon Musk
Yes, this is the mark pug is This is Mark Wagner Park Bogner
road 1800 from ambitious you can look but you can't touch unless
it's over 18 I missed the context of that one.
Blueberry boosting I'm only going to read the ones that are
actually boosted on the for the for the lit send us 488888
Blueberry sweet live item tag bro. also worked at Tesla
concert last night those guys not a rocket out hard really?
Oh, that's interesting. And then I have Yeah, I can no they don't
in Texas. I'm sure they can. They can rock out pretty hard. I
believe that. Hey, man, what a great bunch of booster grams.
Thank you all very much. This is great. Let's go to our pay pals.
Do we get anything from the Fiat fun coupons which by the way, we
don't need anything this week. Thanks to the magic of the
Lightning Network podcasting 2.0 and
pay turn.
We get we did get something new even though even though we're
fully covered by HR. We did get a couple of papers.
Marco Arment $500 every single month. Thank you Marco.
Yep, beautiful. Yes, thank you Marco.
We also got Buzzsprout $500. Loose Bucha
This is buddy. This is the de Bucha
the we also got another this is a first time donor. Longtime
Boehner Oh, hold on a second. If it's a first timer.
We need to defragment Okay.
Who do we defragment today
the legend Dave Jackson to Yes, he says now
I thought he booted he hasn't he boosted before. He's boosted but
this one a boost. This was a Pay Pal. Oh, okay. $100 is what he
said. Oh man, he says he says contributed by the School of
podcasting. He says I played a clip of your show and a segment
on the school of podcasting about Spotify. Consider this my
licensing fee. See you in Dallas go podcast podcast.
Thanks, Dave. Yeah, he also he boosted Korean the keeper with a
really nice note. Yeah, and I was like, this is Dave Jett and
teams Dave Jackson. Really? Yeah. The man been around as
long as all podcasting pretty much Dave bring your bring your
x will jam a little bit of podcast. Yeah, I'll bring my
road caster I'll mix it
I haven't hooked up the Theramin to it yet, but it's coming.
We've got a seat that was That was all for pay pals. We got a
lot of booths though.
A lot of histograms get read out of the gate. I gotta make good
cuz I missed ROI. Last week. 54,321 SATs no note. No, sorry.
That ROI. Well, let me give him a big baller. Then why not? Wow.
Shot Caller 20 his blades on him. Paula. He's a big baller.
But he boosted again with 54,321 says and he says some emojis for
Dave. And did they come through?
I think he was trolling me because he knows that it doesn't
get read man.
Are you using mutt now? Is that are you finally on the train?
I've not installed my dot mutt rc file. No ma'am you yet but
but I am navigating fast mail with the H J K and L keys. How
much do you love that I eat now you're grown up? You're finally
using it the way it should be used. I'm such a big boy. It's
great. Yeah, how you doing? Better than the arrow keys?
Oh yeah, actually, it's exactly the same as the air casement a
different spot
Well, let's see. Let me go ahead and dare no
dare no sin us 100,033 says bolo shot kala 20 his blades only him
Paula anything over 100 It's got to be a big baller through pod
verse, which is great. That's cool. So this is our record for
pod versus this and I think it's an lb integration nice.
This is the work you're doing is essential. You
Here's my vague you crazy visionary mad scientist's listen
to random thoughts it's better than AI dot cooking
Okay, random that's our end you MB That's right. Yes. And I will
let comic strip blogger debate whether or not it's better than
a duck cooking thank you Darren now
the Bruce Wayne of podcasting grips got
he grabs Scott was more I was gonna didn't work dammit sorry
okay yes what not I was just messing around one to try to
count the did the numbers in this boost 12345677 digits in
this boost. Oh my god. 1 million in one set. What
it is, is messages go podcasting.
Go podcast. Follow Sakala play on the Impala man. Extra Stanley
boost for that
the okay I take back everything I said about people not
adjusting their boost amounts to the current value I take it all
back. I take that as a as what it is a implicit
admission that I'm right and you're wrong.
If that will make you happy, darling. Yes, you're right. I am
wrong. I'm a bad man. Yeah, no. I'm not a good person. A bad
podcast. I love you Dave Jones let it be known. Yeah, I love
you too. Bro.
We got more boost even more boost even more. I think I don't
think we read this in the show.
But it gets a little dicey towards the end. So I'm gonna go
do we did we read a big row of ducks Mitch 22 to 22 and he says
hey guys, enjoying the live item discussion while listening live
Hi, I have rode ducks on pod verse
Don't sorry written no I didn't think I'm gonna go
lavish send us a row ducks 2222 Nice through fountain nice rock
and roll
meet us send us 6969 is a pew pew pew wait I have I have that
one. There we go.
I'm learning loaded on the board here the muscle memory starting
to kick in. Okay, slow.
Eric peepee since 1980 I wonder if that's numerology it's gotta
be gotta be ages Yeah, he just says boosts
There we go. Oh, I've got a I've got an ISO by the way. See what
you got over here. Wait, is it a nice did I label it as a nice
well if this is it
Oh, all right. I'm loading this into my smart pads later.
Callay bear. Oh, that's great. We'll be here one more time.
Perfect, Kyle. Thank you.
That's I mean,
of course it hasn't written all over it. See, Mike sent us 5678
sets through curio caster and he says Dave didn't know j&k Were
up and down in might those two keys oh wait, we already read
that with that same thing and fast mail yet people kept I mean
people just piled on me this whole week on podcast index dot
social about not knowing about h k now. I mean, yeah, I can see
why it was surprised. I know you're not a loser. I mean, you
can't keep a Linux box from freezing out but otherwise
nobody can do that. That's
not made of magic.
Mitch sinister 2222. Through pod version he says Looking forward
to seeing y'all Podcast Movement Dallas I might need
I might need a new podcasting 2.0 t shirt because I don't fit
in the small anymore.
That's what that's what that's what 2.0 development will do to
you. That's right. I will get you take care of their Mitch
see we got
9191 SAS from chyron at mere mortals podcast nice to curio
caster and he says I'm more inclined towards Adam on the V
for the outside of the feed issue. I'd love to vie for I'd
love to vie for V the stupid memes that create but please
don't spend any time catering to my weird whims. It sounds like a
real particular particular use case to capture people download
the mp4 is out
outside of streaming on the website or app, does this
actually happen very much? I don't know. No. But what does
happen is, as we know, a lot of female podcast listeners will
listen to an mp3 on our website in a web player or god knows
maybe just clicking on a download this mp3 link that does
I'm sure there's a reasonable amount of people that do that.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm sure you're right. But again, you know, just so we put
it all into perspective,
value for value that I've been doing for a decade and a half it
and we're good, we're really good at it for maybe sometimes
not, I'd say 4% of the entire audience donates. That's it. The
rest just need to be shamed and called douchebags. Yeah, we can
do that too. And what happens? Now what happens is, over time,
people will say, you know, I've been listening for five years, I
haven't given anything and they come in with a whopper amount
eventually it all kind of works out some somehow.
Well, that should be in the spec.
If nobody if somebody's listening, never donates, it
just pops up and says you're a douche. Well, this is this is
what with no agenda that's what the producers the listeners
slash producers they develop that themselves. They start
calling people out Hey, that guy you know, he hit me in the
mouth. He told me about the show, but he hasn't donated he's
a douchebag and then people started donating saying I was a
douchebag that's no good. And to this terminology didn't come
from us. I don't call people douchebags all I do now. It's
now it's embedded in my brain. That's where the deducing came
from like D fragmenting. It's the same thing.
Silver owl gave us 120 SATs he says now it's five sets five
equal 120 factorial boost one one exclamation point. Oops
I don't know what any of that means.
Chris are give us 5000 SATs through curio Castro. Thank you.
Thank you. Great work pod father and sages. Is it possible to
still claim a podcasting 2.0 t shirt? I'd love to rock a little
piece of history. Of course it is. Yeah. Yep. Your accounting.
Yeah. Got your accounting that's going well right with the with
no agenda shop. Of course we have podcasts index dot shop.
Let me see if they have the updated anything recently. I
haven't looked at it and why we should promote that. Yeah, it's
a lot easier than it was before because I just shoot him an
email with the name and address the chair size and he just takes
care of it. Yeah. Done. Let me see the no agenda show the pod
podcast index dot shop. Now it's still we need some more some
more products in there. Some cool designs, some running with
scissors T shirts. That will be cool.
That would be cool. We get to figure out something to take to
Podcast Movement.
Let's talk to those guys. Yeah. Oh, by the way, are we now
officially late for our call at three? Now? Yes, we are. Does
anyone know that? We're late for our call at three maybe you
should ping someone about that just
Yeah, I should. I should text see show running long.
Before we were I can just see if I could bring them right in.
If I had if I had the board set up we could just do our next
meeting or next week during the show. Right just go right into
Cass peatland. 963 SATs through fountain he says I'm so proud
with with my pennies to what
I'm so proud with my opinion these two so SOP RTE
SRP SOP. What are SOP Rte?
So, I don't know a cat
ducks thing that even I don't get, but we appreciate it. We'll
take anything thank you so much.
When Wade Dutch on us, okay. floydian slips 2000 SATs he
says. Who's drumming? Stop that drumming. We'll do it live.
Okay. That was your kid. Your kid.
Forget about the Macintosh says 1234 says he says Happy Friday
thoughts on fountains new update that pays users to listen to
podcasts. I think we've gone through. No Yeah, we beat them
to death. Yeah. Caspi Lind again he says 2460 SATs he says
either fountain 0.4. Release. I need to listen back to Oscar
thanks for the work. It would be cool if na could give total
received SATs boost number.
Maybe he just wants to know like a leaderboard. I got to talk to
the Vortech about that because I slowly want to kind of bring him
in. And
what I'd like is I'd like for artists to get a split who do
album art
And you know, because we fought we have a veto in our
partnership so he doesn't want any bitcoin touching the
corporation so that's okay.
I keep working on that angle but I think it'd be okay if it went
to other people. And then we could do leaderboards and all
that stuff. But you know, slow process people slow process.
Boost boost boost. I already got him saying that. I also think
Cass is a little drunk. So that
was me 2383 and a 7777 SATs and he says Tim ah, I do believe in
your vision. Well, thanks, Tim. Oh, nice. To me that just
caught me off guard.
Let's see. Oh, that's That's you. That's you know, boosting.
Oh, it was my pre boost. Yeah, Nomad, Joe 2000 SATs through
fountain and he says boosting from Lake Champlain in Vermont.
Anything about sex drawn 3000 That's, that's a good thing.
It's a cool it's extra 3019 SATs and he just says trial boost.
Okay, Okay, gotcha. It's successful. Dion's in his 5000.
SAS through Fontanini says if Trudeau likes ranked voting, it
can't be good. Okay, that's for us. I guess they came to us
weird. I know. It sounds like it's not meant for no agenda or
something. All right. Yeah. It said podcasting. 2.0 maybe
confused and boosted the wrong show is okay. Bumi he's from my
Alby, right. Oh, yeah.
Is he from altbier? Yes, I believe so. Yeah. Okay.
2100 SATs and he says confetti cannon?
What I have I have I don't I have a
thought I had a confetti cannon.
Something like this
maybe not.
I like it is trying just trying stuff out. Boris Gizelle ski
gave us 200 SATs and he says thank you for your lots. Thank
you for lots of inspirations. You're welcome Boris. You're
very much
Oh slewed slewed send us 53,000 53,163 SATs nice. He says
this 53,163 is 1611 times 33. When converted to fiat it only
comes out to about 10 bucks. Once Bitcoin hits 1 million each
set will be worth $1 Go podcasting.
Go podcast
Auburn Citadel gives 49,490 SAS and he says streaming gold 2.0
from Auburn California where the 40 Niners flocked to during the
gold rush. Yay. Stream streaming those SATs baby Thank you. Thank
you obviously that's a standard 49 490 Boost thing I love it.
Cole McCormick's and as a road ducks 2222 And he says I used
fountains new promotion feature and I'm so hyped about getting
people set to listen to me. Max sets per listen is 1500 set by
me. You have kept 1000 and boosted me 500 Now I get ducks
for you ducks listen to America plus
okay, America plus that's not to give that one a shot America
there's hard hat Yeah, there he is. He's in the house ladies.
Okay yes
the whole discussion
a lot of control here yes boost
yeah curio caster 2222 And he says hosting services should get
the V for V payments some other way if they need a fee they
should charge the Creator
There you go yeah all all that's the next conversation we'll have
we're gonna stick with Hey, we kind of made it through this
one. Yeah, let's Yeah, I think we I had to add an entire page
of notes of stuff to talk about we talked about one thing is
what else did you have? I'm sorry. Let's get through the
booster Graham. So we do
2222 from Georgia. Oh, George Orwell boosted us. Oh.
How does that work? Okay, what did he say? A sentence 2222 I
guess maybe that's an animal farm boost. And bass says here's
my weekly boost. Gross. Gross, gross jus Nederland creatures
I'd natal on greetings from
okay, I get to practice that.
We get 3690 from Cat Cat spielen nice drunk. New drunk. Drunk.
This is this this
20 to 22 SATs from George Orwell again. Yeah, no note, and he
says 100 as 150 SATs from James Cridland.
He says Enjoy enjoying listening to you focus on fountain various
100 150 Come on James. Well, I boost that guy 5000 That a pop
and he's boosting us 150
means send us 100 says through breeze and he just says thanks.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. And comic strip
blogger, the delimiters send us 15,033 sets through fountain and
he says Howdy, Dave and Adam. I understand you're angry at high
car fuel prices. But war in Ukraine is real not computer
generated video game. Evil Russians are bombing and firing
missiles at Ukraine anyways. I invite your audience to our
podcast about artificial intelligence, spoken by Gregory
William Forsythe Foreman forgiving really interesting
that guy's great. Just enter in your web browser or any podcast
app AI dot cooking. Yo, Joe, thank you.
Boost. Thank you very much blogger, Nick as the master of
the non sequitur. And it's really and I have to say about
comic strip blogger.
He has been around every single business model we've tried. I
remember back when we had pod show, I think he actually posted
about this. He was the first to buy ads for other podcasts on a
podcast that accepted ads. Yeah, so he has only one once it was
you know, Bitcoin came into play and Satoshi is you know, he's
he's been a really it's this is very uncommon for him in general
but whenever there's something new and he's always someone that
helps to tries to help launch something and I give him a lot
of credit for that. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's jumping in
there and willing to take arrows and I sometimes still want to
smother his face with the pillow but I really do really
appreciate and I say that with love and he understands that I
hope
with love with with
monthly pay pals, we got Dwayne Goldy $8 Paul airs doing $11.14
Thank you, Charles current $5 Michael Gagan $5 James Sullivan
$10 Christopher reamer $10 Sean McCune $20 Cohn glotzbach $5,
Jordan Dunnville $10 In pod news, $50 he's making up for the
pathetic boost. Nice.
Hey, we'd like to make up for the pathetic droopy boost sound
that we played for you. That's our group. Thanks, everybody. I
appreciate it. Really, really appreciate it. You can also
support us, I didn't check the tally coin my mistake. To see
how that's doing. You can go to podcast index.org. Go to the
scroll down to the bottom you'll see a big red donate button. You
can use that to send us your Fiat fun coupons. We do accept
them, we do like them. But we prefer of course, on chain or
through one of the new podcast apps, which you can find at new
podcast apps.com. Let me just see real quick if we got
anybody.
Last one was the 18th of June. And you know, if you do
something, leave your name there. So the 18th of June
there's no name, but it was 78,795 SATs.
I wonder what that was? Wow, that was no whoever that was,
thank you, we appreciate that. But no, for real.
This is I feel good about the value that we're receiving. We
really appreciate it and that's how you should feel when you
send it whatever it is you send, it can be 5 million sets or 500
sets. If it's value to you, that's all that counts. We
appreciate it equally because somehow once the system was
running once once the flywheel spinning that kind of all evens
out there's no get rich quick in podcasting in value for value,
but over time, you can actually make it and you cannot just say
trust me on that because I've done it and I continue to do it.
So thank you very much to everybody for that really
appreciate it.
Alright, so I've I've been I've been tweaking the audio or going
along I'm a little happier I guess at this point I can't tell
anymore I can you probably can't either. Now I'm so used to it
now we've been we've been drinking wine and running with
scissors it's this I know more senses no none at all. What else
was on your list? Dave I'm sure there's something we need to
talk about before we go
in I don't know if we get anything that's short is that
they is the thing is everything's kind of want to
give me the list. So I have it in my head and then I'll know
I'll remember as well for the next show. Show social interact
tag is it okay to proceed yet. YouTube podcasting list of top
podcasts? How many are even on YouTube? Podcasting? 2.0 now I
can't talk about that. That's
That's, I'm gonna hit you with something next week. Yeah, this
is gonna be fun.
We have secrets. Yeah, no, no it will be all will be revealed.
Okay, anchor getting the boot. And then I have a bunch of
things below that John cIgi soundbite Creator tool cancelled
Netflix and audio subscript audible subscriptions Chris
Fisher boosting private feed Spotify political ads these that
update frequently, like 55 a 10, partial word search in the
search in points and metadata update endpoints. Holy crap. How
could you not tune into the show? This is fantastic.
Everybody must return for next Friday. Okay, yeah. Do we have a
guest we have a guest next Friday. We do we have Steven D.
Gah. Oh, okay. Well, I'm sure I'm gonna put him for 20% in the
value block.
We'll get some will argue about
we'll talk about everything we talked about today. Again, no,
we're not gonna do that. We're not we're not gonna do that. But
I'm I hope you don't mind because I it certainly felt good
for me just to walk through it and just to you're a good guy
Dave. You don't get pissed off like other partners I have
I've told Alex this before. I'm cursed by herbs of sanely thick
skin for some reason. Just things just don't bother me.
This is why it's perfect baby ebony and ivory. This is good. I
love it.
That video so how many times in the world how many times over
and over? Did you play that video? Not as many as
Whitesnake. Here I go again or living on a prayer from Bon Jovi
or New Kids on the Block. I think I played those were not by
choice. Two of those three are horrible. Yeah. Which one? Which
one did you like? I like Whitesnake, but the other two
were bad.
Ah, yes, there it is. Everybody. This is the board meeting
podcasting. 2.0 we return next Friday. Join us we'll chat.
We'll do it live. Take care everybody bye.
Do you hope you have been listening to podcasting 2.0
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