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podcasting 2.0 for March
11 2020, to Episode 77 Is that a

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mini pub in your pockets?
Alright, and just happy to see

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me. Are you happy to be here at
the board meeting of podcasting

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2.0 Everything happening in
podcast index.org, the podcast

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namespace, and of course, all
the creativity and the good

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juice at podcast index dot
social, special live board

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meeting today. I'm Adam curry
here in the heart of the Texas

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Hill Country. And in Alabama,
the man who edits SQL by hand my

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friend on the other end, ladies
and gentlemen, Mr. De Jones,

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live board meeting. Live board
meeting, baby. Yeah. This is

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very exciting.

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Yeah, the did anybody inform the
secretary? Did people just start

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streaming in she had no, it
wasn't on the calendar.

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That's pretty much the way it
went down. So what we're talking

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about is today we are live with
the live tagging the RSS feed,

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which means at least one podcast
app, if you use it would have

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notified you that the stream is
live. And you can play this in

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the app. And I believe there's
also a chat in the app. Am I

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correct?

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Chat is supposed to be I think
it's just an iframe. I'm

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actually scared too scared to
hit this live button because I'm

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afraid it's gonna like come back
on me and I'll start playing and

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it's gonna freak me out because

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my curio caster wasn't showing
me the live items. So I just

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want to I just want to go there
it is. 77 live. Okay, I only

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showed up so I just want to
know, there it is. Oh, oh, wow,

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this is trippy. Now we just
boost myself just for good

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measure. Okay.

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Break the internet and stop it.
Alright, so

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this kind of works. It was very
confusing. I was using sovereign

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feeds to set up the all the
trigger stuff, the live items.

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And it was I was just just like,
oh, what parameters do I need is

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like, oh, a chat room. And then
the story is just Oh, man. I

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just I couldn't quite wrap my
head around it, then Steven be

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created. And I also couldn't
find the live item tag. Like,

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where is it? I guess at the
bottom. I expected that to be at

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the top for stupid reasons, I
guess, in the just where it

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shows up just physically in the
feed. I wasn't expecting it

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there. So I was like, I couldn't
figure out what was being

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output. He sent me an RSS feed.
I uploaded that one then I did

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the second one. myself

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when we went live. So all by
yourself.

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Yes, Dave all by myself, I'm
proud of me Come on this. If I

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can't do it, who's gonna be able
to do it? I'm low on the on the

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wrong.

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User friendly is not exactly how
you would describe any, any of

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this. Well, what at all?

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What's cool, I mean, I like the
idea of setting it in advance

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and then publishing the feed. So
you know, okay, we'll be live, I

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think 1230. But then you have to
do that, again, when you go

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live. And that should just be a
click, you know, it's like it

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should know what to do. And I
shouldn't have to go there and

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create a new episode. Copy the
old one. I mean, obviously, as

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we as this matures, and it'll
get better, it's just right now

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is kind of like holy crap.

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Honestly, the best part about
this whole thing is that I can

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look at curio caster and
remember what the show number

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is. And because that's a
consistent problem with me.

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Yeah.

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Alright, man, how we have a good
guest today, we should bring him

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in pretty quickly. There's
anything we need to discuss

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before we get rolling. What are
you working on? It seems like

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you've been still doing some
cleanup stuff.

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While I've been working on the
aggregator, so the, you know, we

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talked last week a little bit
about how the aggregator that we

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brought into podcast index was
the one from sort of the final

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revision of the of the
aggregator from Freedom

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controller. Okay, so I took
that, and it's, it's a two piece

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as a two piece aggregators got a
polar, a feed puller, and then a

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feed parser. So that they can
run parallel. And there's this

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basically, it's two separate
JavaScript, Node js scripts, and

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one's called party time, which
is the parser. The other one is

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called aggravate, which is the
polar, right? And so then you,

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we took those, dropped them into
podcast index code base, and

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then modified the crap out of
them to be to do the things that

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we needed to do for for podcast
index. Party time works fine.

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It's, it's a little it's messy,
because it was written as fast

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as humanly possible. So it's,
it's still messy but aggravate

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is based on the old node request
module, which has been

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deprecated. Now,

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in node node request module,

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node j. S. They had Like a built
in library for doing HTTP

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requests now. Okay. And it's
been it's been deprecated. Since

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I think node 14, maybe in their
own like, I think the current

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long term stable is 16. Now, for
node,

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so it was time. Yeah,

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I mean, it was creaky even I
think they deprecated it because

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it wasn't very reliable anyway,
you know, as as, as a

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as a systems admin, yourself, I
mean, that. I know you do a lot

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of customer facing stuff in your
real job, but also just all the,

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you know, a lot of back end. Is
this like a never ending thing,

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just all these upgrades? Is that
just this is just Yes. I mean,

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this is a determine your life to
a degree when all that's coming,

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and then I have to upgrade those
three things, because they have

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dependencies and all this stuff.
Yep.

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If you live and die by the EO by
the AOL table, the end of life

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chart from every software
vendor?

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Oh, yeah, that's published ahead
of time. So you know, you know,

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when when a new version is
coming?

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Yes. Like the most recent thing
is in the day job is going

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through and purging Microsoft
SQL Server 2014 Out of

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everything and upgrading,
because that's about to go into

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fly.

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That sounds really fun. Oh, it's
great. Yeah. Oh, boy.

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It's a party. Let me tell you
bring beer. No, it's yeah,

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that's that got deprecated. And
then it was never very reliable

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to begin with, even when it was
actually supported. And so I've

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known for a while that I needed
to rewrite this thing. And it's,

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it's the simpler of the two.
It's not

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so simple. When you say rewrite,
does that mean a whole code

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rewrite? Or just Yes? scrapped
from really? Yeah. Now, do you

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already have these? I'm just
curious about the process. No

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one No one ever asked developers
I guess numbnuts like me, so So

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you have your your basic
structure of the program? Are

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you going to literally start
line one new file? Or are you

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going to take that structure and
do some some adaptation copy

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paste? Basically,

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this one was pretty much cargo
new project, just blank file

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starting from scratch. Wow. That
Because? Because it's not? It's

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not super complicated. When this
when this software is all said

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and done? We're probably talking
about Yeah, 1000 lines of code

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or less? Oh, I

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can hold that.

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Why am I doing it?

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handed over? I'll take care of
it. Yeah. But

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that, yeah, it's pretty much a
straight, clean rewrite, there's

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really no as there's no porting
going on, because I don't like

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the way that the olds dole thing
was written anyway. And so what

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it's going to do is it's going
to, it's going to just accept

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the current the current version
of, of the polar, it, it does a

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query on the database to get a
batch of feeds, and then loads

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them all up in a in, in a an
asynchronous, it just fires them

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all off asynchronously. Then as
they fit as each one finishes

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its job, it determines what
happened with HTTP status code

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was what that means. And then it
updates the database

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individually. So for every time
the polar kicks off, there's

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this flurry of database calls,
okay. And what I want to do is

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get rid of that, what I would
like to do is do one, one,

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select have a hope of n get a
whole bunch of feed IDs based on

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some criteria, load them up in a
queue, and then have the polar

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just grab all those feed IDs,
and URLs, grab the feed IDs and

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URLs from the queue fire
everything off when and as they

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finish write them to feed files
then include the HTTP status

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code and e Tag and last modified
header in the feed file. This

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and party time will come through
and pick up those feed oh

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right you told me about this yes
yeah. Now what guys You had me

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that polar and party time? I
mean, it's like yeah, you

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already had me there. So but
this this will probably be this

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will have an AOL itself this
will this will be dead when pod

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ping finally takes over.

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Yeah, but that I'm hoping,
selfishly, that that's not for a

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while just so that I won't have
to consider this a waste of my

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time.

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Well, I don't think it's ever a
waste. But Oh god this

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thing is fast. Yo, it is so
fast. It's my how fast this is

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for it is. Let's see. We're the
last test I did last night was

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about 1200 feet a minute in it.

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Wow. And how many parallel
processes is that?

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It is their threads so they're
not as threaded.

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So 1200 threads in a minute,
basically.

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Yeah, that mean the way that
they look is the request library

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inside of rust is so good. It's
it is so top notch.

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Hey, Dave. How good is it?

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Oh, it's so good that I had to
get a get a drink afterwards.

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ever smoked dinner?

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No, it's fantastic because it
looks like you can fire off 1000

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feeds have it do its job. And
the memory usage for the

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process. Never goes above about
100 Meg's hmm it's it's that

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good. I did 10,000 feeds the
other day. A fire those off in

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it. It got all 10,000 in about
two minutes. 20 seconds. This

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thing is this this? That's good.
Yeah. And this is all on a file.

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This is all on a $5 a month
Linode with with a single CPU

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with non dedicated shared CPU
and only like a gig of RAM.

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Right $5 Now but after this
Amazon purchase, you know 15

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Yeah, yeah, it'll go up. I'm
sorry. aka my Yeah, you know,

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it's interesting. I have not
received a single boost from

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anybody yet. I wonder why that
is. And guess people don't care.

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I see them talking about it.

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Is it are these booths best to
be showing up in the chat room?

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They wouldn't know

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but they would show up on the
heli pad because I have the the

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boosts monitor split so they
would show up but I haven't seen

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any and even the one that I sent
earlier has and I wonder if

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that's the the LNP locking again

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LNP locking Yeah,

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what if too many people are
trying to boost at the same time

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then it locks and it waits and
does all kinds of stuff.

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So I'm gonna try right now.
Yeah.

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I'm going to send a boost.

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00:12:08,070 --> 00:12:11,340
Yeah, well, I sent myself a
boost. Now I know this illegal

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in several states but still I
self boosted and it didn't come

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through and I was boosting from
curio caster. Okay, yeah, I got

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he got one. Who's a Dara? No.
All right, Darrin Oh 10,034 sets

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00:12:27,270 --> 00:12:32,460
one more than comics through
blogger. Thank you for your

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00:12:32,460 --> 00:12:33,390
courage. Yes, thank

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00:12:33,390 --> 00:12:36,180
you. No, he just says see Darrin
just added himself. This is

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00:12:36,180 --> 00:12:38,850
proof that Darrin actually has
sat in a wallet. He just never

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00:12:38,910 --> 00:12:40,230
he just never spins them. And he
sent

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00:12:40,230 --> 00:12:43,470
it from breeze about that.

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I'm gonna boost here.

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Interesting. Interesting. Came
in although the came in his

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podcast in 2.0, episode 75

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I just sent a boost. Okay. 100 I
wonder if

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that's an oh, you know, breeze
is interesting because it's a

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00:13:01,470 --> 00:13:04,470
it's a full node and really has
to be running for it to be able

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00:13:04,470 --> 00:13:07,740
to process payments. So if you
just boost something and you

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00:13:07,740 --> 00:13:11,100
close the app, then it probably
won't send that boosts and or I

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00:13:11,100 --> 00:13:14,880
guess booster Graham until much
later. Oh, breeze doesn't

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00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,790
support live item? Of course.
I'm sorry. What am I thinking?

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So he Yeah, he just grabbed a
random episode. Well, okay, why

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don't we share some of this with
our guests, Dave, since we're

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00:13:24,900 --> 00:13:28,560
going to be talking a lot about
what's going on the most the

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00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:32,670
most recent developments that
we've been working on for the

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namespace and of course, all of
that podcast index dot social,

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00:13:36,300 --> 00:13:39,780
anyone who already has an
account can get send you an

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00:13:39,780 --> 00:13:42,990
invite to your preferences. So
if anyone's looking for account

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00:13:42,990 --> 00:13:46,440
looking to join, we just had to
shut that off because I was I

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00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,520
get these trending emails of
what you know what what what is

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00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,960
trending on our Mastodon server
somehow it knows this. Believe

220
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:56,850
me. That's it a bunch of
political call. Yeah. All

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00:13:56,850 --> 00:14:03,570
political. Yeah. Welcome in.
John Spurlock is here ladies and

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gentlemen. Welcome to the board
meeting, John.

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Hey, nice to be here. Can you
hear me?

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Yeah, we hear you. Good. We can
hear you. Yes. Yeah, we got you.

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We got

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siblings. You know, John.

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I don't really even know. Your
background.

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See, internet?

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Yes. Well, cuz I heard I heard
you were on. Were you on pod

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land recently? I think. Yeah. I

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was on pod line last week. Yeah.
And like how this this guy

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has some history that I'm not
aware of? And maybe others. I'd

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love to know a little bit about
how you came to podcasting to

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promote what you were doing
before?

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Yeah, sure, sure. So I guess
I've been doing software now for

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over 20 years and a full time
sort of capacity. So I still I

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still like writing software. I
still like making stuff. That's

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kind of my MO. I worked at kind
of a financial sort of

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background for a little bit did
some trading systems

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integration. You know,
Enterprise Architecture and

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that's yummy. Yeah, exactly. You
know, database stuff. I started

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out there, optimizing query
plans, that sort of thing. But

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then I also did consulting with
Java, Linux stuff. I always had

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been doing that always been
interested in the web. I

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actually worked for Google for a
few years working on Android. So

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the operating system there is
basically I think, what they

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call it now as a full stack,

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developer full stack. Plus, I
guess, if you add Android onto

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it,

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yeah, I'm a generalist. I just
like kind of like it all still.

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And so what I decided is, you
know, Google has this IP thing

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where you can't really work on
side projects, without them

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being able to claim your IP.

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Oh, wait a minute. So you do get
first of all, you get your 20%

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still the thing that they still
do that 20 20% of your time, you

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can do whatever you want.

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Yeah, when I started there, they
were still lip servicing that.

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I figured that was that gone a
long time ago. Yeah, exactly.

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I can't bad mouth that though.
Because they did allow me I

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think for the span about six
months, they let me do a project

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that was like, totally
unrelated. So they did do it.

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But I think now it's a little
different. I mean, they give you

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200% of real time work to do
this,

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right. And then of course, all
your all your bullet base belong

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to us. So whatever you develop
in that 20%, we own?

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Exactly, yeah. And I've always
done open source stuff on the

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side. And I've always had ideas.
And so what I mean, I'm in my

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early 40s now, and I've never
done the cliche, garage

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startups, that type of thing. So
not my garage. I'm in my, you

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know, in the house, but I'm
basically doing that now. So I

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quit Google. And then I kind of,
I always knew I do something in

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podcasting. I've been, I've been
listening to podcasts, and it's

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like, literally the very
beginning, Adam, I think I've

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been following Dave, Dave Winer.
And after extensive beginning, I

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used to be really into point
cast. I don't remember.

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Oh, no, do do I remember point
cast. I loved how the whole

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office network just went down.
The minute everyone's point cast

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was updating. Yes. Yeah, it was
that that was just for the, for

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the young for the younger folks
out there. Back in the day, we

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actually use this thing called
screensavers. I don't think

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people use them anymore. We
needed a screensaver because

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your screen literally would be
burned in and ruined. If you

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didn't opt for toasters and fish
flying around on your screen.

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And it was Yeah, and it was
actually a thing we would buy

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screensavers you go to the
store, you buy a box with the

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fish I think I think I remember
buying the screensaver fish

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bought the toasters. And the
fish in it was all floppy. It

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was on floppy disk. Right? And
you had to load it all up. And

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then out also in Kansas think
point cast. And it was like,

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there's like a checkbox. And I
think a lot of Dave whiners.

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Inspiration was also he even
called a checkbox news. You

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could say, Okay, I want some
sports. I want some finance. I

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want some food recipes. And it
would basically was just a, a

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version of a, an early art. We
didn't run an RSS as far as I

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know. That was too early,
probably just download whatever.

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How did that work? Does anyone
know? What the back end was?

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I? I'm curious XML. That's the
only thing. I'm sure it was XML.

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Right?

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Yeah. So it stuck it in. But
then, you know, we had, we had

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maybe, I don't know, like 40 or
50 people at the office, and we

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had a T one line. You know, one
megabit per second wishes, you

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know, if you have that at home,
you you're on the phone with

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your cable company, to what's
wrong, what's wrong with my

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speed here? And so when
everyone's point cast would

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update invariably at the top of
the hour. Everything shut down.

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Yeah, it was classic. It was the
right idea just kind of too

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early from, you know, wiring and
piping. Right. Right. Right. I

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think definitely. Other idea.
And I, you know, I've always

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been interested in that kind of
like real time breaking sort of

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news. And RSS is like that. A
lot of good podcasts are like

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that, too. You know, they kind
of like, try to get on top of,

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you know, I guess it's the same
transport but the same sort of

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idea. Yeah. I've I've always
been interested in the idea that

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you can program media is so
interesting to me.

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Yeah. Well, and in hindsight,
kind of thinking back to those

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days. I think there was web
blogs.com which, which would

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take XML RPC Requests.

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That was whiners thing, right.
Yeah, that

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that was his thing. And but you
know, how interesting is it that

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here we are 20 years later, and
we're using pod ping, to let

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people know that the feed is
updated. It's the same problem

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we're solving.

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And the fact that it's still a
feed is unbelievable to me. So I

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think that's kind of cool.
Actually, a lot of you know,

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back with my kind of enterprise
architecture background, and I

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think even back with the feed,
it's the RSS sort of committee

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itself, right. Immediately the
astronauts descended and we're

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like, yeah, all right, Adam,
right. We're gonna do this

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right. We're gonna redo Yeah.
Oh, my goodness, that was more

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so this is Like an existence
proof that would you call them

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astral astronauts? Would you
call them? Right architecture,

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astral architecture.

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We even had them guy as well.

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No, but I mean, if you ever do
any work with RSS, you are

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taking on a world of pain,
right? Dave knows this. Yes. And

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I think what the atom guys were,
they saw this immediately. And

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they said, hey, what if we
actually clean this up of it? It

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would make developers lives
easier. But I think what they

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didn't realize is RSS was more
about making the publishers life

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easier.

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Yes. And thank you for saying
that. Because even though my, my

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brain was fogging over looking
at it, I know that I can look at

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my RSS feed. And I know I can
now stress because we're

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starting in late and everything,
I know that ultimately, I can

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figure it out. And if, if push
comes to shove, I can open it in

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Notepad, and I can make a
change. And that to me is from

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the you're absolutely right.
From the publishers perspective.

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Perspective, that is key. And
that that's one of the

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successes, I believe,

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well, we've been talking about
this for a long time is that

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when it comes to RSS, the issue,
the issues with RSS really come

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from it being loose, loosely
specified. And those are its

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strengths and his weaknesses. In
both in both ways. Adam, Adam

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was a fan as actually a
fantastic idea is fantastic

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improvement RSS and you know, if
you could go roll time back and

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sort of do things differently,
you know, Adam, was the better

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was the better format, but RSS,
they, you know, here, RSS only

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only defines, like in an item.
It's like description and title.

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Or it may even be just his
title. I mean, like that, the

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looseness of the of that
specification are kind of It's

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kind of insane. But But if
you've been the good thing about

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it, though, is if you've been
through that whole thing before,

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like if you've been through the
world of of of a format war like

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that, and you've seen which one,
one and why at one, then it

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informs the next time you start
to get involved in a project

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like podcasting 2.0 or something
like that. You bring that

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experience with you. And you're
you're less of a hardliner

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about, we have to do it this way
we have to, because you realize

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that it's not that that's not
what makes the format when what

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makes the format when is

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porn it always porn always makes
the format when?

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Okay, yes. Okay. That's that's
whatever law that is, you know,

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the wiki? Yes, as Curry's law,
there you go. But the really

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what makes the format when is a
combination of the spec being

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being well done. And the
politics of what go on with it.

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There. You cannot separate those
two things, right? Because just

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having the best spec rarely is
enough. You have to you have to

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marry them two together.

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That's why podcasting 2.0 is so
great is that you guys are kind

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of a nice, third party. Right?
So even if someone came up with

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these tags, I'm you've been over
this before, but they have come

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up with tags in the past, but
it's if there's a company behind

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it, other people look, look at
that work kind of differently.

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So it's great to have you guys
kind of as a I don't know what

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you want to call. It was poverty
Alliance? Yeah.

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00:23:24,390 --> 00:23:27,630
Well, it's not you guys. John.
It's all of us. It's exactly.

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Our committee. It's not Yeah, we
just do this.

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But but but yeah, sure, Dave.
Matt, the magic is in one thing.

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And one thing only. And I've
talked to many people about

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this, and we've been approached
many times, and is that we just

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are not taking any money from
anybody only money we'll take is

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that as donated four out of
appreciation for what the

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project is. That's, that's what
makes it work. And it also helps

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when Alex gates, his text
messages me at, you know,

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midnight on a Tuesday, and says
something like, man, I've got

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00:24:03,810 --> 00:24:09,030
this great idea. And he's lays
it out. That's, you can only

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have that sort of relationship,
when there's not big when

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there's not money involved. When
when people do when there's note

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when there's you start getting
into all the other stuff, and it

400
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just falls apart. Yeah, you
know, it isn't

401
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,190
alignment of interests. I think
I think more than anything, it's

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00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:26,340
kind of a lot of people had the
same sort of ideas. Like when

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00:24:26,340 --> 00:24:29,340
you started this, I think that
was about the time that Spotify

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00:24:29,340 --> 00:24:32,610
was getting off the ground. And
I think a lot of people had the

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00:24:32,610 --> 00:24:36,540
same thought at the same time.
And so I know that sure I turned

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you guys, I think we kind of
line up as far as kind of really

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wanting the the way it has been
to kind of keep going and I

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00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,070
don't think there's any
guarantee that it will. I think

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00:24:47,070 --> 00:24:50,910
Apple has done a great job of
kind of encoding it for now. But

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00:24:51,420 --> 00:24:55,650
due to kind of the concentration
of things, it wouldn't be hard

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for some of the bigger players
to just specify another way of

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doing things. And you know, have
some bad meetings and then we've

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kind of lost a lot of the stuff
that we have today. So my whole

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overall goal, if I have any goal
is to just kind of maintain the

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status quo of like, lots of
apps, lots of hosts kind of a

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dynamic, like system with a lot
of players.

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Do you want? I was just gonna
ask one more thing. Do you have

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a day job currently or just
coast? Are you just coasting on

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that Google stock?

420
00:25:23,670 --> 00:25:25,920
Well, it's it's, it's been
referred to

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the coast has been downhill.
Yes.

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You know, it's about poverty,
right? i What's the euphemism

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00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:38,220
I'm investing in the future? Oh,
that's cool. I love that you

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guys talk about your bills I
spend about, I think about 500

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00:25:41,460 --> 00:25:43,920
bucks a month right now on all
the backend. And I've been

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seeing all this data come
through because I, you know, I

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look at all every single episode
that comes out. And I saw a lot

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of, you know, kind of cool
stats, and I'm interested in

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00:25:52,290 --> 00:25:54,660
that sort of thing myself. But
then I started publishing that,

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as well. So that's kind of
another thing I'm kind of doing

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00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,550
on the side is, you know,
someone will throw out like, I

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wonder how many, how many
episodes use chapters, or how

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00:26:02,820 --> 00:26:05,340
pervasive chapters are? I'm
like, I could actually tell you.

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00:26:06,090 --> 00:26:09,750
Yeah, so that's been kind of fun
as well. So just to see it's

435
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kind of nice. Being able to kind
of work in a space where like,

436
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,650
things are still evolving. And
there's still lots of, I think,

437
00:26:16,650 --> 00:26:20,460
a lot of low hanging fruit. I
think strategically, I'm

438
00:26:20,460 --> 00:26:23,820
focusing on an app like a client
app. I think that's like the

439
00:26:23,820 --> 00:26:25,920
biggest hole. I think there's a
lot of great hosts out there. So

440
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,040
I think I have some ideas in the
hosting space as well. But I

441
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,120
think there's tons of great,
like, all levels enterprise free

442
00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:36,180
and everywhere in between. It's
a flip case. Yeah, yeah,

443
00:26:36,180 --> 00:26:39,300
exactly. So I think I'm kind of
okay with where that is. But on

444
00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:43,500
the app side, I don't know if
you know, but Lipson has a as a

445
00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:46,530
podcast. And every month they go
through and kind of list out

446
00:26:47,010 --> 00:26:50,460
what they see for the downloads
wise from all the podcasts are

447
00:26:50,460 --> 00:26:53,820
on their system. And they
always, you know, they've gone

448
00:26:53,820 --> 00:26:56,550
back many years now. And I've
been looking at that. And they

449
00:26:56,550 --> 00:26:59,790
used to break out like, okay, so
Apple podcasts, as we're seeing

450
00:26:59,790 --> 00:27:03,030
this many downloads from Apple
podcasts. Spotify is obviously,

451
00:27:03,780 --> 00:27:06,270
coming up, Google is coming up,
but the independent like, so

452
00:27:06,270 --> 00:27:09,960
everything other than Google and
Apple, that share has been going

453
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,350
down consistently. And so that's
what worries me, you know,

454
00:27:13,350 --> 00:27:16,410
overcast is doing a great job
out there. But it's iOS only.

455
00:27:16,590 --> 00:27:20,370
But from from a philosophical
standpoint, why? Why does that

456
00:27:20,370 --> 00:27:22,020
overall market share matter?

457
00:27:22,860 --> 00:27:27,000
Because of the what? Well, for
one I see is this kind of like a

458
00:27:27,030 --> 00:27:31,050
strategic thing. Again, if let's
say only two apps are the

459
00:27:31,170 --> 00:27:35,160
primary portal into podcasting,
it makes it a lot easier for

460
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,260
them to just say, Okay, we're
going to do another thing now.

461
00:27:37,290 --> 00:27:41,310
Because then no matter what
Apple does, I think anyway, I'm

462
00:27:41,310 --> 00:27:43,740
the host would jump to do it. So
if they said, Tomorrow, we're

463
00:27:43,740 --> 00:27:47,940
going to do Jason feed, or
something crazy like that. They

464
00:27:47,940 --> 00:27:49,800
would, they would fall over
themselves, the host to

465
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,280
implement it right away. So
we're kind of it's limited by

466
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,830
the the clients to some extent,
as far as where the innovation

467
00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:56,130
happens,

468
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,040
here's, here's my view on that,
because I think we get way too

469
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,690
hung up on leaderboards and
percentages, and all of this.

470
00:28:04,230 --> 00:28:10,080
The only way podcasting grows is
through communities that are

471
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:16,470
promoting whatever it is that is
going to rise to the top. And

472
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:22,260
sometimes it's a technological
thing that boosts podcasting.

473
00:28:22,770 --> 00:28:29,430
Often, its content. So
podcasting was growing, maybe

474
00:28:29,430 --> 00:28:34,080
five to 10%, a year bubbling
under, it got pushed way down

475
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,290
once YouTube and Facebook and
Twitter, and that was it was all

476
00:28:37,290 --> 00:28:41,190
about social media. So there was
no, there was really no ink at

477
00:28:41,190 --> 00:28:45,690
all, for podcasting, although it
was growing, but no mainstream

478
00:28:45,690 --> 00:28:53,430
attention until cereal hit. And
so my point being that you, you

479
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:57,930
can't market your way to the to
the top of the of the apps, you

480
00:28:57,930 --> 00:29:02,250
know, with, I don't think we're
ever going to see apps as big as

481
00:29:02,250 --> 00:29:06,330
Apple and Spotify, it will even
out but it's it's all going to

482
00:29:06,330 --> 00:29:10,890
happen in small pockets. The
small pockets happen and grow

483
00:29:10,890 --> 00:29:16,590
because the podcasters they want
people to use that app, you

484
00:29:16,590 --> 00:29:21,900
know, and that reason, some of
them have it now. A lot of

485
00:29:21,900 --> 00:29:25,170
Bitcoiners a lot of pioneers,
you know, early or early

486
00:29:25,170 --> 00:29:30,150
adopters were in a very, very
early stage. Most of the apps

487
00:29:30,450 --> 00:29:34,800
are just getting to where
they're acceptable for people to

488
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,250
make a change or try something
out. So I think we're just we're

489
00:29:38,250 --> 00:29:43,260
just, we're a ways off. But this
this, these these percentages,

490
00:29:43,260 --> 00:29:48,000
it's like it's demoralizing. It
doesn't matter. We I mean, look

491
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,460
at the features that some
hosting companies are

492
00:29:50,460 --> 00:29:52,830
implementing yet. It's not
overnight and they're not all

493
00:29:52,830 --> 00:29:56,040
falling over themselves, but a
number of important ones are

494
00:29:56,070 --> 00:29:59,970
doing it and supporting it. And
because we're not falling over

495
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,250
over ourselves because Apple
said we're going to do

496
00:30:02,250 --> 00:30:04,230
something. We're doing it right.

497
00:30:04,650 --> 00:30:09,330
But, you know, I think the
YouTube, the YouTube talk that's

498
00:30:09,330 --> 00:30:13,620
been going on for the last
couple of weeks is kind of a, it

499
00:30:13,620 --> 00:30:19,140
needs to be talked about because
I don't trust those numbers.

500
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,700
Well, let me let me say, let me
put it this way. If YouTube as a

501
00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:26,400
podcast platform, you know, now
they're, they're gonna do like

502
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,530
the keynote, somebody from
YouTube's gonna do like the

503
00:30:28,530 --> 00:30:31,500
keynote at Podcast Movement, and
they're, they're making their,

504
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:36,180
their play into podcasting. And
then I hear you keep hearing

505
00:30:36,180 --> 00:30:39,390
these big numbers, like 40% of
people listen to podcasts on

506
00:30:39,390 --> 00:30:41,970
YouTube for medicine research
and all this cuz it's just kind

507
00:30:41,970 --> 00:30:47,670
of all in the in the podcast,
industry news. And I've got real

508
00:30:47,670 --> 00:30:52,650
problems with those numbers and
how to interpret that, because,

509
00:30:53,190 --> 00:30:58,170
well, I guess number one is, if
that's true, if it's true that

510
00:30:58,170 --> 00:31:03,570
you that 40% of people listen to
podcasts on YouTube, then why is

511
00:31:03,570 --> 00:31:06,150
YouTube making this big play of
getting into podcasting? That

512
00:31:06,150 --> 00:31:09,390
sounds like they already are?
Why are they going to pay? Pay

513
00:31:09,390 --> 00:31:12,030
create, oh, I can answer that
$50,000,

514
00:31:12,060 --> 00:31:14,730
I can give you the answer and
give you the answer no, that no,

515
00:31:14,730 --> 00:31:17,580
they're saying something
different. To saying we want you

516
00:31:17,580 --> 00:31:22,560
to make video versions of your
podcast is very different. And

517
00:31:22,590 --> 00:31:25,170
so they're not. They're not
necessarily asking for a whole

518
00:31:25,170 --> 00:31:28,860
bunch of people with mics and
headsets and studios. They're

519
00:31:28,860 --> 00:31:32,160
looking for more, they're trying
to build a library of hits.

520
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,130
That's what all these people do.
That's what Spotify is doing is

521
00:31:35,130 --> 00:31:38,220
what Google is doing. Amazon
will do their own version.

522
00:31:38,460 --> 00:31:41,370
Apple's the only one that just
wants people to use their

523
00:31:41,370 --> 00:31:44,040
subscription service. I don't
think they care much about

524
00:31:44,250 --> 00:31:47,820
anything else. But these people
this is all content plays, has

525
00:31:47,820 --> 00:31:50,850
nothing to do with podcasts. I
couldn't give a shit about what

526
00:31:50,850 --> 00:31:51,300
we're doing.

527
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,890
No, I agree with that. I guess
my problem is with the numbers

528
00:31:55,890 --> 00:31:58,350
and what that means to the
industry, because these numbers

529
00:31:58,350 --> 00:31:59,190
are just reports.

530
00:31:59,220 --> 00:32:02,280
Yeah, but but they're just
reported meaningless. I think my

531
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,920
point is, it's meaningless. It
doesn't really matter, does it?

532
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:05,700
Well, if

533
00:32:05,700 --> 00:32:08,550
you have 40, here's, here's the
way like, here's the way James

534
00:32:08,550 --> 00:32:14,790
explained, explains it. He says,
Okay, if if, if the survey if

535
00:32:14,790 --> 00:32:18,210
you ask somebody where they
listen to podcasts, and they

536
00:32:18,210 --> 00:32:22,950
tell you YouTube, well, then it
doesn't matter, that YouTube is

537
00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:26,640
not really what we consider a
podcast when it matters, that

538
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,670
they think that it is a podcast,
so therefore, it's a podcast.

539
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,750
Now, I don't want I'm not
interested in the debate about

540
00:32:33,750 --> 00:32:39,570
what is a podcast. But what I
know is that those numbers are

541
00:32:39,570 --> 00:32:46,440
being reported to the podcast
industry, as podcasts. And it's

542
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,790
like, it's it's like taking,
it's like asking somebody if

543
00:32:50,790 --> 00:32:55,350
they go if they if they watch
movies, but not distinguishing

544
00:32:55,350 --> 00:33:01,650
between the theater, and and
television. You if you're taking

545
00:33:01,650 --> 00:33:04,620
these numbers and saying okay,
30% of you're absolutely

546
00:33:04,620 --> 00:33:08,130
right, you're absolutely right.
It is almost apples to oranges.

547
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,150
It misinforms the podcast
industry about what actually

548
00:33:12,150 --> 00:33:17,400
happens. Like France, for
instance, you have if somebody

549
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,120
thinks PewDiePie is a podcast,
and they say, Oh yeah, I listen

550
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,820
to I listen to podcasts on
YouTube, yes. Where I listened

551
00:33:24,300 --> 00:33:26,460
in in there. And the whole time
in their mind. They're thinking

552
00:33:26,460 --> 00:33:29,970
that this video, that this video
channel, they watch all the time

553
00:33:30,330 --> 00:33:34,320
is a quote unquote, podcast,
that's fine for that. But then

554
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,640
if you take that information and
go tell the podcast industry, in

555
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,940
the traditional podcast
industry, that Look here, 40% of

556
00:33:41,940 --> 00:33:45,420
people listen to podcasts on
YouTube. And they're like, uh,

557
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,450
oh, I don't know what to do
about that. Well, yeah, you

558
00:33:48,450 --> 00:33:49,950
don't know what to do about it,
because it's not actually

559
00:33:49,950 --> 00:33:52,980
accurate. with it. Okay, that's
my issue. Yeah.

560
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:57,720
Just so you know, since day one
on podcasting, the argument of

561
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,110
where people listen, and what is
then considered a podcast has

562
00:34:01,110 --> 00:34:05,220
been raging. And to this day,
there are people that say, Dude,

563
00:34:05,430 --> 00:34:09,660
I was putting my mic my radio
shows on the internet. 1983 I

564
00:34:09,660 --> 00:34:13,620
was the first podcaster. Yeah.
Yeah, that argument is boring.

565
00:34:13,860 --> 00:34:16,440
What is integral was interesting
to me about all the numbers that

566
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,230
I've heard reported and I and as
you know, I really don't put

567
00:34:19,230 --> 00:34:22,890
much I don't care. It's We're
building something. We've got

568
00:34:23,190 --> 00:34:28,500
5000 podcasts that are using it,
probably 1000 of those are

569
00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:32,070
really using it actively and are
starting to hone their pitch for

570
00:34:32,100 --> 00:34:35,250
value for value. But more
importantly, the authoring tools

571
00:34:35,250 --> 00:34:38,010
are starting to come online
slow, but they're coming online

572
00:34:38,010 --> 00:34:41,520
and we've let own the All we've
done is lead by example. That

573
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,250
number that I found most
interesting that something we

574
00:34:44,250 --> 00:34:51,120
can affect is women. A large
percentage of women listen to a

575
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:56,490
podcast on the podcast website.
I've seen this myself. I've seen

576
00:34:56,490 --> 00:35:01,050
this myself. That's a humongous
option. tunity for embedded

577
00:35:01,050 --> 00:35:05,760
players, that's an option an
embedded player. That is, I

578
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,580
mean, we everyone, all of our
apps, I think almost all of them

579
00:35:08,580 --> 00:35:12,900
have at least some web version.
And we have some cool sharing

580
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:20,130
widgets. But think about players
and what we can do with the with

581
00:35:20,130 --> 00:35:25,080
the namespace tags, etc, there
to get people to use an app. But

582
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,250
even then, I mean, it's, is it
invalid to have someone use the

583
00:35:29,250 --> 00:35:32,700
curio caster embedded player
with a wallet with everything

584
00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:37,230
there? Versus on the curio?
caster.com? PWA?

585
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:39,240
No, no, no,

586
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,180
I think the way I think about it
is that YouTube is kind of a

587
00:35:42,180 --> 00:35:46,380
good Northstar. As far as user
experience, I think in the

588
00:35:46,380 --> 00:35:50,340
future, let's say video was not
that expensive. Back in the day,

589
00:35:50,430 --> 00:35:54,000
there probably would be five or
six youtubes. But they kind of

590
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,630
you know, Google took a massive
hit their bandwidth bill is just

591
00:35:57,630 --> 00:36:02,070
insane. But now we're getting to
the point where you could see

592
00:36:02,070 --> 00:36:05,250
almost building a YouTube on a
lot of the newer edge

593
00:36:05,250 --> 00:36:08,730
technologies that are out there.
There's, there's, I think

594
00:36:08,730 --> 00:36:10,500
there's gonna be some
interesting startups that kind

595
00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:13,110
of blend what we're doing with
podcasting, and then also

596
00:36:13,110 --> 00:36:14,520
bringing that to video in the
future.

597
00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:18,330
Alex is doing it by himself.
Yeah, yeah.

598
00:36:18,539 --> 00:36:21,269
But I think you'll see kind of
larger companies start to do

599
00:36:21,269 --> 00:36:23,759
this. And then the, but they

600
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,090
wait, wait, wait, I'm sorry to
interrupt. You said you see

601
00:36:27,090 --> 00:36:29,850
larger companies starting to do
this, just explain what this is.

602
00:36:29,850 --> 00:36:30,270
Again,

603
00:36:30,750 --> 00:36:35,310
I think building, for example,
the, the podcast hosts don't

604
00:36:35,310 --> 00:36:39,090
have apps right now. So if they
come out with a new feature,

605
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,940
they're kind of reliant on the
app side to kind of build

606
00:36:41,940 --> 00:36:46,500
everything to, to expose that.
But you can imagine that they

607
00:36:46,500 --> 00:36:50,310
would build apps that like can
do audio, and then potentially

608
00:36:50,310 --> 00:36:52,560
video as well for their
customers, just because they

609
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,250
know that they can make a great
experience for their for their

610
00:36:56,250 --> 00:36:59,790
customers. Yeah, well, so I
could, I could see like, and

611
00:36:59,790 --> 00:37:01,980
again, I think just the
experience is what we should

612
00:37:01,980 --> 00:37:06,630
look at YouTube for inspiration
from and honestly over the what

613
00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:09,720
was it over? I think New Years,
I think podcast was like, you

614
00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:14,490
know why? One of one of these
new podcast features would be

615
00:37:14,490 --> 00:37:18,690
really compelling for, you know,
an average podcast listener to

616
00:37:18,690 --> 00:37:21,390
actually switch apps like they
would actually cause them to

617
00:37:21,390 --> 00:37:22,080
switch. Here's

618
00:37:22,079 --> 00:37:25,349
a strike. Here's, here's a
striking thought. Because it

619
00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:31,109
just struck me. Should we maybe
we should consider redefining

620
00:37:31,589 --> 00:37:35,309
what we're building? Should it
only be apps that are an app

621
00:37:35,309 --> 00:37:38,729
stores? Should it be? Should
they always look the way they

622
00:37:38,729 --> 00:37:41,669
look? I don't think so I don't
think so either. I mean,

623
00:37:41,939 --> 00:37:47,099
creatively, the features have
been driven by the app

624
00:37:47,099 --> 00:37:51,899
developers 100%. That's the and
of course, by the by creators

625
00:37:51,899 --> 00:37:56,429
who are using those elements and
asking their tool, suppliers,

626
00:37:56,429 --> 00:37:59,639
which is the hosting companies
to implement that, so they can

627
00:37:59,639 --> 00:38:02,729
use it, that that's kind of
that's how the demand works, and

628
00:38:02,729 --> 00:38:05,879
then how that's how stuff gets
in there. There's not a lot of

629
00:38:06,359 --> 00:38:09,629
push coming from the hosting
companies in that regard.

630
00:38:11,100 --> 00:38:13,410
But we'll see a blend though,
because you're gonna see

631
00:38:13,410 --> 00:38:16,440
services that kind of use a lot
of the data that were like

632
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,320
transcripts is a perfect
example. That's sort of

633
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,020
interesting, from just a
straight kind of user point of

634
00:38:22,020 --> 00:38:25,560
view, it'll be useful to some
people. But that is a wealth of

635
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,230
information that services are
going to be able to create, like

636
00:38:28,260 --> 00:38:32,190
amazing search experiences for,
for example. So I think you're

637
00:38:32,190 --> 00:38:36,060
gonna see a lot of just web
services kind of read these days

638
00:38:36,180 --> 00:38:37,020
to state as well,

639
00:38:37,050 --> 00:38:41,670
we're in agreement, what I'm
saying is, we need the creative,

640
00:38:41,700 --> 00:38:45,000
we need to get our heads out of
our asses as to what a podcast

641
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:49,410
app is, and what people really
want to work in on it. If women

642
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:54,690
if women, if for women
predominantly are using a player

643
00:38:54,690 --> 00:38:58,050
on a web page, which is pretty
sad, if they use and I know

644
00:38:58,050 --> 00:39:01,200
they're using it on on some of
my shows, it's just a simple,

645
00:39:01,230 --> 00:39:05,520
you know, mp3 players or
nothing. Why wouldn't we spend

646
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,610
the same benefits whether it's
an app or not probably more,

647
00:39:08,610 --> 00:39:11,730
even to some degree, we can
build into those web pages, and

648
00:39:11,730 --> 00:39:15,300
we should be we should be going
where people want to be and I

649
00:39:15,300 --> 00:39:19,110
think we're a little too hung up
on religion, and that, you know,

650
00:39:19,140 --> 00:39:26,010
oh, Apple, okay. You know, it's
like It's nonsensical numbers. I

651
00:39:26,010 --> 00:39:26,490
don't have a

652
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,280
problem with podcast as a term
either. I think that's fine to

653
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,740
kind of, even though it's kind
of a horrible name. It's kind of

654
00:39:31,740 --> 00:39:34,890
like it right now. everyone kind
of knows it is it's the non

655
00:39:34,890 --> 00:39:38,940
mainstream sort of media look,
delivery system. And so I think

656
00:39:38,940 --> 00:39:42,000
people no matter what the apps
end up looking like, and I think

657
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,820
like you said, I agree there's
going to be 1000s of different

658
00:39:44,820 --> 00:39:47,760
types of apps. I think the
notion of podcasts as the

659
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,830
overall term for this is still
useful.

660
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:55,170
Yeah, I think what matters is
that the the delay the source of

661
00:39:55,170 --> 00:39:58,770
the delivery, and the end point
where it's delivered to maintain

662
00:39:58,770 --> 00:40:02,850
decentralization What What now
how you know how that looks,

663
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,610
whether or not you're serving,
serving it out of object

664
00:40:05,610 --> 00:40:11,220
storage, or off servers, or off
IPFS on the back end, or whether

665
00:40:11,220 --> 00:40:14,280
or not you're consuming it with
a mobile app, or a website or a

666
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,600
PWA, or an embedded player on
the on the edge. I don't think

667
00:40:18,630 --> 00:40:21,150
either one of those things
really matter as long as they

668
00:40:21,150 --> 00:40:25,110
stay that way, as long as they
stay decentralized. But that's

669
00:40:25,110 --> 00:40:28,140
my problem with that's my
problem with with the whole

670
00:40:28,140 --> 00:40:33,330
YouTube conversation, like Chris
Fisher on brought a clip of

671
00:40:33,330 --> 00:40:36,540
Chris Fisher, talking about this
very thing on the latest episode

672
00:40:36,540 --> 00:40:41,970
of coder radio. And he's talking
about his about what he sees

673
00:40:41,970 --> 00:40:44,640
going on in the industry. If you
want to play that clip,

674
00:40:45,150 --> 00:40:47,760
that's I've been feeling the
same way on the in the podcast

675
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,270
space, today, it came out that
YouTube is offering like

676
00:40:51,270 --> 00:40:56,460
$50,000, to certain podcasters
to take their audio only podcast

677
00:40:56,460 --> 00:40:59,970
and make it a video podcast. And
then you know, start using their

678
00:40:59,970 --> 00:41:03,780
ads and stuff like that. And you
know, you watch what Spotify is

679
00:41:03,780 --> 00:41:07,680
doing. You watch what Apple is
doing. You see what Lipson

680
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,100
trying to do with suppressing ad
prices. And YouTube is trying to

681
00:41:11,100 --> 00:41:14,520
do by taking over podcasting and
I start thinking to myself, How

682
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,560
the hell am I gonna be able to
stay independent for the next

683
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,610
five years, it's getting really,
really centralized out there.

684
00:41:20,940 --> 00:41:24,120
For some, like the rumors as
much as $300,000, the offers,

685
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,320
which I still find ridiculous
$50,000 Couldn't even convert a

686
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,050
single one of our podcast
videos, think about it. That

687
00:41:31,050 --> 00:41:33,900
doesn't even pay for a year of a
video editor, not to mention

688
00:41:33,900 --> 00:41:38,310
camera equipment, lighting,
sets, editing equipment, I mean,

689
00:41:38,310 --> 00:41:41,400
give me a break. $50,000 is
spent in one weekend buying the

690
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,210
gear? Well, that makes no sense.
Yeah, but they're trying to

691
00:41:45,210 --> 00:41:48,870
incentivize a centralization of
podcasters. Because once you go

692
00:41:48,870 --> 00:41:51,990
into the YouTube platform, you
create content for the

693
00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:56,010
algorithm. And you you have to
create content that's also

694
00:41:56,010 --> 00:42:00,750
appealing to the ad bot because
it's it's all an auction system

695
00:42:00,900 --> 00:42:05,490
behind the scenes. And the
auction system has preferences,

696
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,180
it looks for brands save
content, and brand save content

697
00:42:09,570 --> 00:42:12,570
is not only the type of things
that you cover, but it's the

698
00:42:12,570 --> 00:42:15,660
genre of you that you cover as
well. I look at independent

699
00:42:15,660 --> 00:42:19,470
podcast operations. And I just
think, I don't even know if most

700
00:42:19,470 --> 00:42:21,570
of them are going to make it the
next couple of years. I think

701
00:42:21,570 --> 00:42:23,790
it's really, it's really bleak
out there.

702
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:28,800
Alright, I'm gonna take this in
reverse order. First of all, the

703
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,130
only reason this is a news is
because there's money involved.

704
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,680
Whenever there's money, and
there's free money, people

705
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,860
always get all money, money,
money. And there's always all

706
00:42:37,860 --> 00:42:40,920
kinds of thinking that goes
along, and there's feelings and

707
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:45,300
shit that happens. Whereas 99%
of all podcasters probably will

708
00:42:45,300 --> 00:42:51,270
never make or should make any
money. The bigger travesty here

709
00:42:51,330 --> 00:42:56,580
is not people using YouTube or
whatever to listen to podcast,

710
00:42:56,670 --> 00:43:01,200
the travesty is that creators
put it there. If you want to

711
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,850
create a community that is
profitable, both on a creative

712
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:10,080
and business level, you need to
control that community. That's

713
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,970
the bottom line. I don't care if
if you're using if you're

714
00:43:14,970 --> 00:43:20,490
streaming live with with any
tube and using curio caster, you

715
00:43:20,490 --> 00:43:23,430
still need to have control over
your community, which is what

716
00:43:23,430 --> 00:43:27,090
we're doing and what we're
building. People are realizing,

717
00:43:27,420 --> 00:43:30,630
gee, you know, it's not such a
great deal, there will always be

718
00:43:30,690 --> 00:43:33,660
a whole bunch of fools who go
the same who go to the major

719
00:43:33,660 --> 00:43:38,340
labels, that's not going to end
anytime soon. The people always

720
00:43:38,340 --> 00:43:41,160
follow the money and they think
that where the money is, is

721
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,860
where the audience is, but you
have no connection when you have

722
00:43:43,860 --> 00:43:47,850
to go to all these different
places. You really don't own

723
00:43:47,850 --> 00:43:50,730
your audience, you and when by
own I mean you don't have them

724
00:43:51,090 --> 00:43:56,100
in a place like no agenda has,
that we've never done any any

725
00:43:56,100 --> 00:43:59,640
kind of marketing or any or been
put on other we've In fact, we

726
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,450
refuse to be put on Spotify. But
we did put that up on Mastodon

727
00:44:03,450 --> 00:44:03,960
server.

728
00:44:05,099 --> 00:44:08,339
What What concerns me about
about YouTube getting into this,

729
00:44:08,339 --> 00:44:11,759
and I don't disagree with what
you're what you're saying. I

730
00:44:11,759 --> 00:44:17,369
guess from a technology
standpoint, I think that, John,

731
00:44:17,759 --> 00:44:20,189
you know, what you were saying
earlier is that if a whole bunch

732
00:44:20,189 --> 00:44:23,519
of cabal of huge tech got
together and wanted to reformat

733
00:44:23,519 --> 00:44:27,599
the system, they they could
probably do it and this is this

734
00:44:27,599 --> 00:44:31,439
is my concern is the
decentralization if it gets

735
00:44:31,439 --> 00:44:35,639
under attack from a big player
like YouTube, and it comes in

736
00:44:35,639 --> 00:44:38,909
from the sort of comes in
through the back door where Oh,

737
00:44:39,089 --> 00:44:43,349
YouTube is getting into
podcasting. Well, yeah, but then

738
00:44:43,379 --> 00:44:46,559
what is the net result of that
is the net result of that it is

739
00:44:46,559 --> 00:44:51,059
going to be to destroy everybody
else's business. And in take

740
00:44:51,059 --> 00:44:52,229
away this precious

741
00:44:52,260 --> 00:44:55,860
but how I don't I don't
understand how I fail to see how

742
00:44:56,220 --> 00:44:59,190
seems like there's a lot of
fear, YouTube's going to come in

743
00:44:59,190 --> 00:45:01,860
and they're going to stomp
Everybody, that's a big

744
00:45:01,860 --> 00:45:06,570
presumption. I, I really, I'm
not so sure that's true.

745
00:45:06,630 --> 00:45:09,810
And also having done a tour of
duty in one of these places as

746
00:45:09,810 --> 00:45:10,140
well.

747
00:45:11,039 --> 00:45:13,979
As Oh, like anybody else.
Exactly. And

748
00:45:14,070 --> 00:45:16,980
the one thing that actually
really that they'll spend their

749
00:45:16,980 --> 00:45:20,610
time in the shower thinking
about and, you know, neglect

750
00:45:20,610 --> 00:45:24,150
their revenue per user. No, it's
competition actually.

751
00:45:25,260 --> 00:45:29,070
Interesting. They could not
especially tech people, I think

752
00:45:29,130 --> 00:45:31,530
they really cannot stand another
tech company coming out with

753
00:45:31,530 --> 00:45:33,510
another product that they're
like, Oh, we could have built

754
00:45:33,510 --> 00:45:36,810
this. And they will copy it,
they'll spend all of their I

755
00:45:36,810 --> 00:45:40,410
mean, look at what Google did
with Google Plus. So I think

756
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,530
what we're doing is exactly
correct. And that is kind of

757
00:45:43,530 --> 00:45:47,880
like showing away, hey, this is
a, this is an innovative feature

758
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,580
that all of these podcast apps
are going to find useful. No

759
00:45:50,580 --> 00:45:54,360
matter if it's a traditional
client app or service, I think

760
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,030
you guys have done a really good
job of kind of keeping the

761
00:45:57,420 --> 00:46:00,030
features at an abstract level.
So it's like, here's how to

762
00:46:00,030 --> 00:46:02,370
represent value, here's how to
represent, you know, we're

763
00:46:02,370 --> 00:46:05,070
talking about comments. And all
these things are kind of like

764
00:46:05,070 --> 00:46:07,320
they're going to be structured
data that's broadly applicable

765
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,270
to any of these apps. And again,

766
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,830
and it creates an ecosystem
longer term of tool providers.

767
00:46:13,830 --> 00:46:17,580
And you know, I use Well, I
don't I use hyper captcha, I use

768
00:46:17,580 --> 00:46:21,150
that with Dred Scott. And he
does the chapters and, and he

769
00:46:21,150 --> 00:46:28,050
gets 10% of some 5% of the of
the of every single show I'm

770
00:46:28,050 --> 00:46:32,280
involved in, through the through
the value blog split. And we

771
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:37,110
need lots more of these types
of, of tools and services to

772
00:46:37,110 --> 00:46:40,950
come online. And some of those
will eventually be folded into,

773
00:46:41,190 --> 00:46:44,820
or purchased by hosting
companies. I mean, this is, this

774
00:46:44,820 --> 00:46:50,850
is not something that you can
measure, report to report, you

775
00:46:50,850 --> 00:46:55,470
know, and even to be honest,
also, these even though I hear

776
00:46:55,470 --> 00:46:58,440
we come out smelling really
good. I don't like report cards.

777
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,800
I don't you know, I just I just
want to see what people are

778
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,640
actually doing and using? And
if, if, why are they using

779
00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:11,550
YouTube, I'll tell you, here's
what I heard the most. It's on

780
00:47:11,550 --> 00:47:17,100
my YouTube app faster than it's
on my podcast app. And they're

781
00:47:17,100 --> 00:47:19,710
not watching. They're just using
the app so they can keep it

782
00:47:19,710 --> 00:47:22,380
closed and listen to it. It's
the same as hitting play on a

783
00:47:22,380 --> 00:47:26,850
web page. If people continue to
upload to web pages like

784
00:47:26,910 --> 00:47:30,420
YouTube, then people are going
to listen to their podcast over

785
00:47:30,420 --> 00:47:34,200
on YouTube. If you're not
missing out, you know, yeah,

786
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,110
maybe some programmatic algo
thing that you're but did

787
00:47:37,110 --> 00:47:40,380
podcast discovery, it's not how
podcasts are discovered is word

788
00:47:40,380 --> 00:47:44,490
of mouth. It's that's how
podcasts grow, not through any

789
00:47:44,490 --> 00:47:47,550
other mechanism. It's just a
different beast. But if people

790
00:47:47,550 --> 00:47:50,070
want to listen to it on a web
page, let's make a great

791
00:47:50,070 --> 00:47:54,180
experience. Doesn't matter if
it's on a web page or or in an

792
00:47:54,180 --> 00:47:55,380
app, it's the same thing.

793
00:47:55,770 --> 00:48:01,320
Well, that's probably the other
thing that podcasting as a as a

794
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,310
technology. And as a platform
has that other platforms do not,

795
00:48:05,310 --> 00:48:09,930
which is the pace of innovation
and how fast we can change

796
00:48:09,930 --> 00:48:15,330
things. Because like I had a
fantastic call, did a zoom call

797
00:48:15,330 --> 00:48:19,290
with some guys out of Australia.
This past week, I think it was

798
00:48:19,290 --> 00:48:24,510
like maybe Wednesday or Tuesday.
And it's an app that they've

799
00:48:24,510 --> 00:48:27,210
it's on the app stores on the
iOS App Store is called visie

800
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:30,030
vs. Easy, why? They just
released it all. And they're

801
00:48:30,060 --> 00:48:33,090
waiting for it to be released on
Android. And it's sort of this,

802
00:48:33,300 --> 00:48:38,580
this interesting mix this
interesting hybrid thing where

803
00:48:38,970 --> 00:48:42,180
they've got a they've got a back
end platform web based platform

804
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,420
where you can go like claim your
podcast public. And when you

805
00:48:45,450 --> 00:48:48,840
publish your episode, you can
then go through an ad these

806
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,830
chapter markers with affiliate
links and all bunch of stuff is

807
00:48:52,830 --> 00:48:55,680
basically like these
hypercharged chapter. Thanks

808
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,770
very similar to what I think
Benjamin Bellamy was wanting

809
00:48:58,770 --> 00:49:01,530
with podcast recommendations tag
to be able to sort of like

810
00:49:01,530 --> 00:49:06,000
deliver all kinds of interesting
in points to the listeners

811
00:49:06,330 --> 00:49:09,180
through chapters. And then
they've gotten in, they've got

812
00:49:09,180 --> 00:49:12,120
an app that goes with it to show
their sort of enriched chapter

813
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:16,020
content. And, you know, they
said, Well, you know, one of

814
00:49:16,020 --> 00:49:18,420
their goals is to do
integrations with this host

815
00:49:18,420 --> 00:49:23,160
hosting companies in the future
and be able to, to take chapters

816
00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:26,970
in suck them in and then add
this, this, this content to it.

817
00:49:27,420 --> 00:49:32,430
So I mean, like things like that
are coming on board. And that's

818
00:49:32,430 --> 00:49:35,490
something like you can't write
plugins for YouTube. You can't

819
00:49:35,490 --> 00:49:39,960
extend these arguments at all.
And the ability to take to take

820
00:49:39,990 --> 00:49:44,040
an idea and build on it and make
it better. Is is maybe the

821
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:45,810
killer feature of podcasting.

822
00:49:45,839 --> 00:49:49,709
But look at look at the where
the power is the power is with

823
00:49:50,159 --> 00:49:54,959
the developers. The power is
with the creators. That's the

824
00:49:54,959 --> 00:49:58,409
bottom line. They literally
paying people to come to their

825
00:49:58,409 --> 00:50:02,219
sorry as platform doesn't gotta
say this guy. I mean, you know,

826
00:50:02,489 --> 00:50:07,499
we're not paying anybody to come
and use podcasting 2.0. So this

827
00:50:07,499 --> 00:50:11,699
fear this and this constant
reporting about the job, the

828
00:50:11,699 --> 00:50:17,489
percentages and and oh my god,
it's so boring. It's just

829
00:50:17,489 --> 00:50:21,929
boring. I don't care. I really
don't it's not it's not it's not

830
00:50:21,929 --> 00:50:25,769
important. There will never be a
king of all media. It's just

831
00:50:25,799 --> 00:50:28,619
it's too fragmented. It's going
to be even more fragmented.

832
00:50:28,619 --> 00:50:34,409
We're seeing newspapers, and
television and radio in the

833
00:50:34,409 --> 00:50:37,499
traditional sense. And I know
that I'll get pushed back

834
00:50:37,499 --> 00:50:41,279
because yes, there's a trillion
dollars in advertising still

835
00:50:41,279 --> 00:50:45,929
being made in radio, but it is
dying slowly, is dying, and we

836
00:50:45,929 --> 00:50:51,239
are rocketing up. And the same
goes for podcasting. 1.0. You

837
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:52,379
know, it's coming.

838
00:50:53,309 --> 00:50:58,049
But you mentioned payment. And I
think, I think I can, I'll put

839
00:50:58,049 --> 00:51:00,629
up my more conspiracy theories
on this podcast, because I don't

840
00:51:00,629 --> 00:51:04,079
know that people listen to it.
But if I think one of the more

841
00:51:04,079 --> 00:51:07,199
interesting things, if you ever
get value to value or value for

842
00:51:07,199 --> 00:51:13,079
value working? Is it going in
reverse? I think I've had an

843
00:51:13,079 --> 00:51:16,199
early streaming app on Android,
you get to see like how people

844
00:51:16,199 --> 00:51:19,499
actually use your app, and what
is important to people. And I

845
00:51:19,499 --> 00:51:22,229
think it's important, or I think
what I found was really

846
00:51:22,229 --> 00:51:26,339
interesting is that people are
extremely price sensitive. And

847
00:51:26,339 --> 00:51:28,739
people will go through all sorts
of hoops to like not pay for

848
00:51:28,739 --> 00:51:35,999
stuff. And so I think, I think
the idea of paying listeners as

849
00:51:35,999 --> 00:51:40,499
a as a as a kind of incentive to
come over to your to it like

850
00:51:40,499 --> 00:51:42,569
another app or something like
that is actually pretty

851
00:51:42,569 --> 00:51:45,689
compelling. I know. Google, for
example, would probably pay

852
00:51:45,809 --> 00:51:48,899
people to log in and search if
they could, but there's just no

853
00:51:48,899 --> 00:51:52,889
mechanism exists. I had to have
everyone who have wallets, I

854
00:51:52,889 --> 00:51:56,489
think the whole idea of kind of
like, Hey, here's a way to

855
00:51:56,489 --> 00:51:59,969
market that doesn't penalize the
listener and actually add some

856
00:51:59,969 --> 00:52:01,859
value to the listener. I think
that could be really

857
00:52:01,859 --> 00:52:02,339
interesting.

858
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:07,350
I disagree. And that's only
recently that I've thought about

859
00:52:07,350 --> 00:52:11,460
this, then we I think we're
talking with Roy from breeze

860
00:52:11,460 --> 00:52:15,540
about it. And I think when you
pay people to come in and use

861
00:52:15,540 --> 00:52:19,710
your stuff, and in this case,
you're not saying Come listen to

862
00:52:19,710 --> 00:52:23,850
Joe Rogan on on curio cast,
you're saying come use curio

863
00:52:23,850 --> 00:52:26,940
caster, I don't think that's the
way it works.

864
00:52:27,390 --> 00:52:29,790
No, it'd be more more like
marketing, right? Where it's

865
00:52:29,790 --> 00:52:33,870
like, instead of paying overcast
to show something, you would

866
00:52:33,870 --> 00:52:36,630
say, Hey, you're gonna feel good
about listening to this, because

867
00:52:36,630 --> 00:52:39,510
you're gonna get some, I don't
know, it's kind of like play to

868
00:52:39,510 --> 00:52:42,090
pay games, almost. But I do
agree. You don't want to bring

869
00:52:42,090 --> 00:52:43,110
in people just for that

870
00:52:43,140 --> 00:52:47,010
you're gonna get you're gonna
get Yeah. I don't like it as a

871
00:52:47,010 --> 00:52:50,790
marketing tactic to buy
customers in that manner.

872
00:52:50,790 --> 00:52:55,230
Because I think particularly if
you're giving people money, the

873
00:52:55,230 --> 00:52:57,090
same people will come and get
free money.

874
00:52:57,989 --> 00:52:59,909
It's like, what was that old
search engine, there was an old

875
00:52:59,909 --> 00:53:02,849
search engine that would pay you
to search I think was like x 12

876
00:53:02,849 --> 00:53:06,629
or something like that way back
like.com era? I think they just

877
00:53:06,659 --> 00:53:08,819
the payment system doesn't
really allow for it now, where

878
00:53:08,819 --> 00:53:11,369
if you guys figure out payments,
then I think that'll be well.

879
00:53:11,369 --> 00:53:12,869
What part have we not figured
out?

880
00:53:14,369 --> 00:53:17,039
Well, the going the other way
again, and more kind of like,

881
00:53:17,129 --> 00:53:19,169
you know, it's got to be a
little easier than it is now.

882
00:53:19,620 --> 00:53:23,160
Oh, of course, of course, it's
got to be easier than we are in.

883
00:53:23,490 --> 00:53:26,760
I mean, we're we're having
arguments about channel fees,

884
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:31,020
which will be meeting Nolan void
in a year from now. This is this

885
00:53:31,020 --> 00:53:32,730
is going incredibly fast.

886
00:53:32,969 --> 00:53:35,099
Yeah. And it's really exciting
to because you see everything.

887
00:53:35,129 --> 00:53:36,929
It's kind of cool, because
everything is coming together at

888
00:53:36,929 --> 00:53:39,329
the right time. You know,
lightning is kind of well, not a

889
00:53:39,329 --> 00:53:41,309
lot different places other than
podcasting, not,

890
00:53:41,489 --> 00:53:45,239
not just that, but people are
realizing they're getting

891
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:48,359
screwed by pig tech is my new
one. Pig tech is the exact

892
00:53:48,539 --> 00:53:52,289
they're getting screwed by pig
tech. D platform. They're deep

893
00:53:52,289 --> 00:53:58,559
platforming countries now. I
mean, people are are aware of

894
00:53:58,559 --> 00:54:00,689
this. They're awake, they're
starting to make different

895
00:54:00,689 --> 00:54:01,409
choices.

896
00:54:01,469 --> 00:54:04,139
Well, if only there was some
sort of federated version of

897
00:54:04,139 --> 00:54:05,909
Twitter that we could kind of
build on.

898
00:54:06,179 --> 00:54:08,909
Could we put that into the app
screen? Could we put that into

899
00:54:08,909 --> 00:54:11,369
the apps for comments that
everybody could see no matter

900
00:54:11,369 --> 00:54:14,369
what, what that was a great
idea. And it could work even on

901
00:54:14,729 --> 00:54:17,369
and it could even work in a in
an embedded player on a web

902
00:54:17,369 --> 00:54:19,949
page. What a grand idea. Do you
have any thoughts about that

903
00:54:19,949 --> 00:54:20,909
John Spurlock?

904
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:24,300
I want to hear about No, no. I
want to hear about the format

905
00:54:24,300 --> 00:54:28,380
war between lightning comments
and activity pub. This is

906
00:54:28,410 --> 00:54:29,580
clearly going to be afraid

907
00:54:29,580 --> 00:54:32,970
of losing losing this war. Who's
in this war?

908
00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:37,770
Did you listen to pod land? I
haven't heard. I haven't. I have

909
00:54:37,770 --> 00:54:38,940
some thoughts on this. And I

910
00:54:38,940 --> 00:54:41,160
didn't get it. Tell me tell me
what the premise was because I

911
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,620
didn't I didn't hear this yet.
Like, go

912
00:54:43,620 --> 00:54:46,410
ahead. Well, basically, it's
that we have to comment systems,

913
00:54:46,410 --> 00:54:50,490
right? Nominally, we have
booster grams, which kind of go

914
00:54:50,490 --> 00:54:53,280
over the Lightning Network. And
then we're talking about kind of

915
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:59,970
more general like Twitter type
comments for each episode and

916
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,360
thinking was I think, hey, now
developers have to support both.

917
00:55:03,870 --> 00:55:07,140
But I responded to Oscar on his
GitHub thing. And I think

918
00:55:07,140 --> 00:55:10,140
actually what he's doing is
really good in that we need some

919
00:55:10,140 --> 00:55:15,300
sort of way of reading these
lightning comments right now, if

920
00:55:15,300 --> 00:55:19,560
I'm an app, I can't read booster
grams. So that's a problem. And

921
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:23,190
so I think tools like Halla pad
will is one way of solving them.

922
00:55:23,580 --> 00:55:26,460
But I do think it's worth
thinking about how to expose

923
00:55:26,460 --> 00:55:29,850
that in some sort of JSON
formatted way. So I think that

924
00:55:29,850 --> 00:55:32,730
protocol that he's come up with
is actually might be a really

925
00:55:32,730 --> 00:55:35,790
good starting point for how to
do that. But how I see that is

926
00:55:35,790 --> 00:55:38,820
it's basically he's coming up
with a protocol. So it's almost

927
00:55:38,820 --> 00:55:41,850
like he's coming up with a
protocol that we could slot in,

928
00:55:42,570 --> 00:55:47,700
as a social interact platform,
along with any other social

929
00:55:47,700 --> 00:55:50,670
interact platforms that you have
for that episode. So what I was

930
00:55:50,670 --> 00:55:52,650
seeing is that you could have
something like, here's where to

931
00:55:52,650 --> 00:55:55,620
go for activity pub comments for
this episode. And here's where

932
00:55:55,620 --> 00:55:58,890
to go for lightning comments.
And it's a way to get people not

933
00:55:58,890 --> 00:56:02,070
exclusively into one or the
other. So it kind of like lets

934
00:56:02,070 --> 00:56:06,150
people go into lightning
gradually. So to me, I think

935
00:56:06,150 --> 00:56:08,970
it's like people forget that the
social interact tag is like not

936
00:56:09,030 --> 00:56:12,090
exclusive. It says, well, here's
where to go on Twitter for this

937
00:56:12,090 --> 00:56:14,550
episode, right? Here's where to
go on the fediverse for this

938
00:56:14,550 --> 00:56:17,310
episode, and I think it's really
important to say, here's where

939
00:56:17,310 --> 00:56:19,620
to go to get the booster grams
for this episode, which right

940
00:56:19,620 --> 00:56:22,380
now is impossible. But what's
cool about what Benjamin has

941
00:56:22,380 --> 00:56:25,830
done is that he's created a tag
that will basically work for

942
00:56:25,830 --> 00:56:30,720
that. You can specify, you know,
one or more kind of platforms

943
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:31,440
for each episode. So

944
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,290
let me let me just say something
about the publishing of booster

945
00:56:34,290 --> 00:56:37,530
grams, because, you know, we've
pioneered the value for value

946
00:56:37,530 --> 00:56:44,190
model. And the reason you have a
booster gram in the value for

947
00:56:44,190 --> 00:56:49,650
value model, initially, and it's
open for interpretation, is the

948
00:56:49,650 --> 00:56:54,390
feedback loop. Which is okay,
I'd like you to support the

949
00:56:54,390 --> 00:56:57,540
show, whatever it's worth to
you, that comes back. And then

950
00:56:57,540 --> 00:57:00,390
the intent the way it's been
working, there may be other ways

951
00:57:00,390 --> 00:57:03,420
to do it. But the way it's been
working, has, then you read out

952
00:57:03,420 --> 00:57:09,360
the message. And we like no
agenda, we don't publish all

953
00:57:09,510 --> 00:57:13,140
messages. And we publish zero
those messages, we tell

954
00:57:13,140 --> 00:57:17,040
everybody, and we may, we may
skip around and read through it

955
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:20,610
or, you know, sometimes there's
no message which is, you know,

956
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:26,730
with booster rams is is more
rare. I'm not necessarily sure

957
00:57:26,730 --> 00:57:30,600
that that the future of booster
grams is to have them published

958
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:34,830
everywhere. In fact, I think it
detracts from what you can

959
00:57:34,830 --> 00:57:36,330
actually do with value for
value.

960
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:41,400
And they may be I may not be
encapsulating your feelings on

961
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:45,000
this job. But I think, I think,
John, I think what, what you're

962
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,180
saying there's a terminal
terminology problem here. And

963
00:57:48,180 --> 00:57:52,950
booster grams is sort of a catch
all phrase, that means anytime

964
00:57:52,950 --> 00:57:55,980
somebody sends you sends a
message on lightning. And that's

965
00:57:55,980 --> 00:58:01,680
not exactly what Oscar is
proposing. Because he's in a, in

966
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:04,380
a thing think that when we, when
we talk about it, it comes

967
00:58:04,380 --> 00:58:09,210
across garbled. But I think
like, what, what Oscar is

968
00:58:09,210 --> 00:58:13,620
proposing, and I think what
you're talking about John, is,

969
00:58:14,550 --> 00:58:19,350
is lightning comments, being
just another style of comment

970
00:58:19,380 --> 00:58:22,740
where there's a different TLV
record, and it's its own thing.

971
00:58:23,010 --> 00:58:27,240
And then the booster grams are,
you know, those are still point

972
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:30,750
to point within the app. It's an
app, it's an app to it's a

973
00:58:30,750 --> 00:58:35,550
listener to podcaster message,
then you have this other thing

974
00:58:35,550 --> 00:58:40,590
called a boost called a
lightning comment. And just if

975
00:58:40,740 --> 00:58:45,360
they could mix, or they might
not, and but but but there's

976
00:58:46,679 --> 00:58:50,279
Sorry, sorry, I think isn't that
the purview of the podcaster

977
00:58:50,279 --> 00:58:52,709
though? I mean, I guess I'm more
liberal on this, like, you could

978
00:58:52,709 --> 00:58:55,379
have a podcaster that wants to
show them and then one that

979
00:58:55,379 --> 00:58:56,039
wants to filter

980
00:58:56,039 --> 00:59:01,229
you can you can you can my point
is I know what works I'm not so

981
00:59:01,229 --> 00:59:03,539
sure this works really well. I'm
not

982
00:59:03,539 --> 00:59:07,019
well, because Because booster
grams the way we do it is part

983
00:59:07,019 --> 00:59:08,129
of its show content.

984
00:59:08,190 --> 00:59:11,280
Well that's how they're supposed
to work that the intent that's

985
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,220
how the value for value loop
work. I'm not saying that's the

986
00:59:14,220 --> 00:59:17,760
only way you can do whatever you
want. I don't even like having a

987
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:22,050
Twitter and and an a mass and I
would rather Why don't you have

988
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:26,400
a if you want to publish it put
a bot that connects your booster

989
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:31,290
grams to your Mastodon or your
activity pub. I'm not so sure

990
00:59:31,290 --> 00:59:33,870
that it's a good idea to have
all these these different ways

991
00:59:33,870 --> 00:59:37,500
to do it. It's okay. I mean, we
can also have five different

992
00:59:37,500 --> 00:59:41,250
types of crypto in in the Valley
for value payments, which we

993
00:59:41,250 --> 00:59:41,610
don't.

994
00:59:42,270 --> 00:59:48,270
Well, the you know, the issue
here is that I don't even look

995
00:59:48,270 --> 00:59:50,760
at I don't even look at the
booster cramps during the week.

996
00:59:50,790 --> 00:59:53,760
I print them off right before
the show because I don't want to

997
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:56,700
know what they are before we
read them because it's show

998
00:59:56,700 --> 01:00:00,750
content and if you publish them
in advance then all your

999
01:00:00,750 --> 01:00:04,530
listeners already know half of
the show. And and it's it's not

1000
01:00:04,530 --> 01:00:09,270
as exciting. It's you don't get
to hear the new the new content

1001
01:00:09,300 --> 01:00:13,800
and so like, but but with a
lightning comments system, you

1002
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:17,250
can gateway those things however
you want to so if you had, if

1003
01:00:17,250 --> 01:00:21,720
you if you were accepting
lightning comments and on an

1004
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:26,190
episode, and in those comments
that you know our comments are

1005
01:00:26,190 --> 01:00:28,920
getting, they could be read, it
could be gatewayed out to

1006
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:32,280
activity pub or anything else
you wanted them to be, I don't

1007
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:35,760
see them as being mutually
exclusive to activity pub and

1008
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:36,090
all.

1009
01:00:37,020 --> 01:00:41,430
If I may, it's beautiful to hear
you speak that way. Because I

1010
01:00:41,430 --> 01:00:46,260
hear you, at one point talking
like a content creator. And the

1011
01:00:46,260 --> 01:00:48,840
other one, I hear you talking as
a software developer

1012
01:00:48,870 --> 01:00:53,340
technologist, there's a huge
lack of people listening to what

1013
01:00:53,340 --> 01:01:01,050
creators want hugely lack. And
so we wind up sometimes creating

1014
01:01:01,050 --> 01:01:04,890
all kinds of things, or we are
in danger of creating things

1015
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:10,620
that people just might not wind
up using, or using in a

1016
01:01:10,620 --> 01:01:13,680
completely different way and
then crippled because we weren't

1017
01:01:13,860 --> 01:01:14,730
communicating.

1018
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:17,640
Well, you've called me down on
this for years ever, you know,

1019
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:19,800
we've we've always had
conversations, phone

1020
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:23,640
conversations where, you know, I
said, Hey, I just built this

1021
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,430
thing into the framework trelar
editor that's gonna let you do

1022
01:01:26,430 --> 01:01:28,800
so and so. And you're like,
Yeah, but that's not the way I

1023
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,160
do things. Right. And, and
you're like, let me let me go

1024
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:35,820
over and tell you exactly what
my workflow is. And you lay it

1025
01:01:35,820 --> 01:01:38,850
out. And then I like, Oh, I get
this, like the light bulb goes

1026
01:01:38,850 --> 01:01:39,030
off.

1027
01:01:39,060 --> 01:01:44,820
So to me, cross app comments in
their origin, are extremely

1028
01:01:44,820 --> 01:01:50,250
exciting, because I just want to
have an app that I use, and I'm

1029
01:01:50,250 --> 01:01:55,950
not so worried about, if I can
then go and transport my profile

1030
01:01:55,950 --> 01:01:59,040
to another app. I appreciate
that we're thinking about these

1031
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:01,740
things, even though we still
don't have OPML import and

1032
01:02:01,740 --> 01:02:07,440
exports anywhere. We're not
enough that I just don't think

1033
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:10,650
it's that important. We want
comments and apps that work

1034
01:02:10,650 --> 01:02:11,730
across the apps.

1035
01:02:12,180 --> 01:02:14,460
Yeah, and I think we're looking
wait on the road on some of this

1036
01:02:14,460 --> 01:02:17,640
stuff. I think the older I get
the more kind of like pragmatic,

1037
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,610
I'm like, Well, this is not a
problem, because no one is

1038
01:02:20,610 --> 01:02:24,090
commenting anywhere. Now, it's
like RSS is that we kind of need

1039
01:02:24,090 --> 01:02:28,890
to see the feed with structured
data. So this is gonna, like we

1040
01:02:28,890 --> 01:02:31,140
were talking about before for
apps that want to check out.

1041
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:33,630
This is not a user facing, but
let's say they just want to

1042
01:02:33,630 --> 01:02:36,780
follow the, you know, ingest the
comments for searching as well.

1043
01:02:36,780 --> 01:02:40,860
All of that is useful in the
feed as we've described. So I

1044
01:02:40,860 --> 01:02:43,710
think we are not even thinking
of all the possibilities that.

1045
01:02:45,059 --> 01:02:48,569
And again, I'll come back to the
numbers. I'm not so focused on

1046
01:02:48,569 --> 01:02:53,219
what YouTube may or may not be
doing. But when I hear women, a

1047
01:02:53,219 --> 01:02:58,199
large segment of women listen to
podcasts on the podcast page

1048
01:02:58,199 --> 01:03:02,669
itself. We shame on all of us
shame on the hosting companies.

1049
01:03:02,789 --> 01:03:06,539
Shame on us. Shame on me.
Because

1050
01:03:06,569 --> 01:03:08,999
I know I've been seeing a lot of
people going over to good pods.

1051
01:03:09,029 --> 01:03:11,639
Have you guys checked out good
pods yet? It's actually kind of

1052
01:03:11,639 --> 01:03:15,569
a good app. But it's one of its
biggest features is comments.

1053
01:03:15,630 --> 01:03:19,200
Right? But it's it's closed off.
It's a closed actually. And so

1054
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:25,020
that's an and I'm sure they're
fine people. I think I'm even I

1055
01:03:25,020 --> 01:03:27,600
think I may even be doing a
podcast with the CEO or

1056
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:31,290
something. And I'm so I'll learn
a lot more. But you know, when

1057
01:03:31,290 --> 01:03:35,100
it's when it's a closed off
community? Well, that's the

1058
01:03:35,100 --> 01:03:38,280
thing we're trying to get away
from. That's exactly why we're

1059
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:42,390
doing this as we I let Apple
become the the on ramp to

1060
01:03:42,390 --> 01:03:46,440
podcasting. We shouldn't allow
anyone to be the on ramp to

1061
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:47,250
comments.

1062
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:50,550
Well take. Let's talk about good
pause for a second. Would a

1063
01:03:50,550 --> 01:03:53,730
company like good pods? Is this
is theoretical, because we don't

1064
01:03:53,730 --> 01:03:59,040
know them? What a company like
good pods be willing to publish

1065
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:02,250
back out their comments as
activity pub? Or do they see

1066
01:04:02,250 --> 01:04:05,040
that as some sort of proprietary
advantage over the market?

1067
01:04:05,490 --> 01:04:09,780
Well, what is their business? I
don't know. The reason why we

1068
01:04:09,780 --> 01:04:16,950
can even discuss this is because
we have no business. Yeah. So I

1069
01:04:16,950 --> 01:04:22,170
would think that for in general,
most of these types of companies

1070
01:04:22,470 --> 01:04:27,360
need to contain their users to
some degree, because that's the

1071
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:31,290
value. It's their RP use, or
their, you know, their value for

1072
01:04:31,290 --> 01:04:34,800
whatever whatever metric they're
using. And I believe they're,

1073
01:04:34,830 --> 01:04:38,580
they're funded. So they have I
think to have investors could be

1074
01:04:38,580 --> 01:04:39,240
wrong. I worry

1075
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:41,880
about pod chaser more than I
worry about good pods in that

1076
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:42,270
respect.

1077
01:04:42,300 --> 01:04:44,940
I don't worry. I don't worry
about any of it. I've seen all

1078
01:04:44,940 --> 01:04:47,910
this come and go. I've seen AOL
come and go

1079
01:04:48,150 --> 01:04:51,090
possible integration. I think it
would be cool if I actually

1080
01:04:51,090 --> 01:04:54,090
think that main hurdle for a lot
of these apps and they've just

1081
01:04:54,090 --> 01:04:57,240
flipped a bit is do I want
comments at all? Because it is

1082
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:00,600
it's a technical thing, but it's
also a it's a head Right, I

1083
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:03,990
mean, you are onboarding, user
generated content and all that.

1084
01:05:03,990 --> 01:05:08,010
So I think a lot of apps have to
make that first decision, do I

1085
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:11,580
want to sign up for this? And no
amount of magic activity pub

1086
01:05:11,580 --> 01:05:14,940
sauce is gonna kind of save them
from some of that now we can

1087
01:05:14,970 --> 01:05:18,420
create components that make a
lot of this easier. But I think

1088
01:05:18,420 --> 01:05:21,330
there's still a fundamental
thing of do I want to integrate

1089
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,120
user base comments in my app?
And is that going to be a

1090
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:26,730
feature that I promote? I think
good parts has already crossed

1091
01:05:26,730 --> 01:05:29,730
that. So I could see them at
some point, if there's a

1092
01:05:29,730 --> 01:05:32,250
thriving community elsewhere of
them bringing it in as well. I'm

1093
01:05:32,250 --> 01:05:35,130
not, I don't know anyone over
there. But I think from what

1094
01:05:35,130 --> 01:05:38,700
I've seen, so far, they've
demonstrated that it's, it's a

1095
01:05:38,700 --> 01:05:39,510
valuable thing.

1096
01:05:40,260 --> 01:05:45,510
But so when it comes to pay,
like, there's this issue of

1097
01:05:45,780 --> 01:05:49,830
paying for comments, and that's
very distasteful, which is part

1098
01:05:49,830 --> 01:05:54,240
of the lightning comments, you
know, thing is, we can all agree

1099
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:58,050
that if you have to pay for
comments, that it's going to

1100
01:05:58,050 --> 01:06:01,500
increase the quality of the
comment. I mean, to some degree,

1101
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:04,050
you're going to be less likely
to have spam and that kind of

1102
01:06:04,050 --> 01:06:06,690
thing. But then there's the
ethical thing of Do you want to

1103
01:06:06,690 --> 01:06:10,500
have to make somebody pay to
comment? And the answer is no,

1104
01:06:10,950 --> 01:06:16,440
you don't, you don't want to be
that way. But in that regard, I

1105
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:21,330
think that's you, it's okay to
have both things exist, like a

1106
01:06:21,330 --> 01:06:26,460
lightning comment system where
you where you do, the app says,

1107
01:06:26,460 --> 01:06:29,400
Okay, I want I don't want to
have to deal with the headaches

1108
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:33,150
of spam. So I want to enable
comments only for people who are

1109
01:06:33,150 --> 01:06:37,860
willing to give up one Satoshi,
which you know, 1/100 of a cent.

1110
01:06:38,460 --> 01:06:43,200
I want. That's the choice that I
make for my app. And then you

1111
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:46,050
have this other app that says,
No, I'm a free for all want, I

1112
01:06:46,050 --> 01:06:49,620
want everything. And because you
can go back out to the hole,

1113
01:06:49,650 --> 01:06:53,580
because you can gateway it back
out to the world. Either way,

1114
01:06:54,180 --> 01:06:57,930
then we all get the benefit of
seeing both both things in

1115
01:06:57,930 --> 01:07:02,280
action. And we can we can then
say make decisions later on.

1116
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:06,180
Okay, well, maybe we want to
sort things in a different way.

1117
01:07:06,180 --> 01:07:09,090
Or when we go to podcast
discovery or search, we want to

1118
01:07:09,090 --> 01:07:14,490
give more weight to one or the
other. Like, I just I see the

1119
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:19,590
the existence of both of those
things as fine. I think they I

1120
01:07:19,590 --> 01:07:22,410
think it's okay, it makes sense.
I don't see it as a format war

1121
01:07:22,410 --> 01:07:26,400
at all. I don't know how you
feel. But that's the way it

1122
01:07:26,850 --> 01:07:27,600
seems to me. Yeah,

1123
01:07:27,599 --> 01:07:31,139
I don't either. I get I think it
slots in very well with the it's

1124
01:07:31,139 --> 01:07:33,929
a choice. So if the if the
podcaster chooses to publish

1125
01:07:33,929 --> 01:07:37,259
those comments out if they want
to do it, there's a tag for it

1126
01:07:37,259 --> 01:07:40,079
right now. And then we just
define that as a protocol that

1127
01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:44,100
right, but where we're where
we're at right now, format wars,

1128
01:07:44,100 --> 01:07:46,140
or whatever it is. We're
stagnant?

1129
01:07:46,890 --> 01:07:50,580
Well, I would say I would say in
that in that regard with here's

1130
01:07:50,580 --> 01:07:53,340
here's what would help
distinguish a comment on

1131
01:07:53,340 --> 01:07:58,620
lightning from a booster gram.
And that is, if somebody is

1132
01:07:58,620 --> 01:08:02,040
paying to comment on lightning,
debt payments should go to the

1133
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:09,150
app, not the podcaster booster
grams, good podcaster. Comments

1134
01:08:09,150 --> 01:08:11,910
good? Will the podcaster is not
running the comment system.

1135
01:08:11,910 --> 01:08:15,660
They're not incurring any of the
cost or head or overhead or pain

1136
01:08:15,660 --> 01:08:17,640
or anything of moderate? Just
want

1137
01:08:17,639 --> 01:08:22,109
comments? Yeah, I just want
comments. I don't care. Just

1138
01:08:22,109 --> 01:08:25,049
give me a thick. I don't care,
given the comments,

1139
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:27,210
nice problem to have sort of
categories.

1140
01:08:27,270 --> 01:08:32,010
Everybody needs, like block on
news for the next week. And just

1141
01:08:32,010 --> 01:08:36,480
don't think about what everybody
you know, whether it's pig tech

1142
01:08:36,480 --> 01:08:38,640
or not, we're all looking at the
competition.

1143
01:08:38,969 --> 01:08:42,689
But what's needed, so is do we
need, I feel like, I feel like

1144
01:08:42,689 --> 01:08:43,049
we need

1145
01:08:43,110 --> 01:08:46,410
what we need is to focus and not
bring in all these other

1146
01:08:46,470 --> 01:08:49,980
problems. I'm sorry. And that's
the way that's the way that's

1147
01:08:49,980 --> 01:08:52,380
the way we've done it. So I'm
okay with it. We bring in all

1148
01:08:52,380 --> 01:08:54,750
these problems and all these
things, and we can't do this, we

1149
01:08:54,750 --> 01:08:59,100
need to integrate that. And then
no one knows what to do. So for

1150
01:08:59,130 --> 01:09:03,660
months now, I've been posting
the social links on all of my

1151
01:09:03,660 --> 01:09:06,810
podcast, there's millions of
people who listen to my

1152
01:09:06,810 --> 01:09:12,000
podcasts. If there was an app
that could do comments, I'd be

1153
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:16,290
talking about it and getting
people to use these apps. So but

1154
01:09:16,290 --> 01:09:19,290
there's not because we don't
have anyone that can do a login

1155
01:09:19,290 --> 01:09:19,650
yet.

1156
01:09:20,130 --> 01:09:24,510
Well thread. To me the solution
to that really is is in one

1157
01:09:24,510 --> 01:09:27,180
piece of code and that's what
you wrote John, this Dan

1158
01:09:27,210 --> 01:09:30,510
and I have people because I
posted on no agenda social or

1159
01:09:30,510 --> 01:09:35,910
podcasts index dot social, it's
populated. So if you open up the

1160
01:09:35,940 --> 01:09:39,330
the comments tab on any of my
podcasts, there's comments

1161
01:09:39,330 --> 01:09:44,790
there. So, you know, I'm doing
I'm doing what's expected on my

1162
01:09:44,790 --> 01:09:46,200
end. It just seems

1163
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:48,270
like one of the things is Yeah,
I think you're just you're

1164
01:09:48,270 --> 01:09:51,150
really early, right? I mean, the
tag isn't even technically part

1165
01:09:51,150 --> 01:09:53,490
of the spec yet. Right. They've
so I think that's gonna go in

1166
01:09:53,490 --> 01:09:54,030
this next Do you

1167
01:09:54,030 --> 01:09:56,430
think that slows me down John
Spurlock? No, you.

1168
01:09:57,660 --> 01:10:00,300
You're giving me test data that
I put you on my website. That

1169
01:10:00,300 --> 01:10:02,970
new hype website I put up there
podcast love

1170
01:10:02,970 --> 01:10:06,900
your hype website. It's snazzy,
snazzy. Yeah, I

1171
01:10:06,900 --> 01:10:10,170
think I think it's just a slow
sort of thing. I mean, we do, we

1172
01:10:10,170 --> 01:10:12,660
are waiting for apps to
integrate this. So what excited

1173
01:10:12,660 --> 01:10:15,840
me so much about it, I, I don't
have a dog in the activity pub

1174
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:20,520
fight. But what excited me about
it is that it exists that it

1175
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:23,430
basically is exactly what we
would design, if we were going

1176
01:10:23,430 --> 01:10:26,880
to design something like this,
that was kind of a podcast wide,

1177
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:30,750
open Internet protocol based
solution. So that exists, the

1178
01:10:30,750 --> 01:10:34,200
fediverse exists, like you said,
you already have a bunch of

1179
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:37,470
people that are, are actually
using a system. So we're not

1180
01:10:37,470 --> 01:10:41,160
talking about the additional
cost of finding users to do

1181
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:44,460
this. But I think we're just
waiting on apps to make this the

1182
01:10:44,490 --> 01:10:47,070
experience pretty seamless. And
to do that it's not as easy as

1183
01:10:47,070 --> 01:10:50,310
like a JSON file, right? You,
you have to actually do some

1184
01:10:50,310 --> 01:10:52,920
work, you have to say, Oh, I
have this logged in user on my

1185
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:57,600
side. Now I have to define a
profile for them. And so I think

1186
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,060
what's cool, and what I've been
kind of working on the last few

1187
01:11:00,060 --> 01:11:02,790
months is just creating some
pieces that at least show the

1188
01:11:02,790 --> 01:11:06,180
way on how an app might do this.
And then a couple of tools that

1189
01:11:06,180 --> 01:11:09,510
apps could use to read comments,
and then to post comments back,

1190
01:11:09,510 --> 01:11:12,990
but it's again, it's very early
days. So I wouldn't expect

1191
01:11:12,990 --> 01:11:16,800
anything right away. But I think
again, once you see apps, going

1192
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:20,010
back to competition, let's say
pod friend integrates this, you

1193
01:11:20,010 --> 01:11:22,290
know, I think you're gonna see
apps kind of integrate this

1194
01:11:22,290 --> 01:11:25,350
right away. But the podcast
social thing is more of another

1195
01:11:25,350 --> 01:11:28,620
problem. Because I mean, this,
this feature is also limited by

1196
01:11:28,620 --> 01:11:33,540
the fact that no podcasts really
are putting it in at the moment.

1197
01:11:33,540 --> 01:11:33,900
So

1198
01:11:34,169 --> 01:11:37,169
what do you what do you mean,
that's, I have, I have four

1199
01:11:37,169 --> 01:11:42,119
podcasts. 1.4 million people
listen to one of those podcasts.

1200
01:11:43,110 --> 01:11:46,830
And about a half of all podcasts
that actually implemented that.

1201
01:11:48,930 --> 01:11:53,010
Okay, but but I can't but you
see, you know, who listens to my

1202
01:11:53,010 --> 01:11:54,720
show? podcasters.

1203
01:11:55,140 --> 01:11:57,630
But you know, what, and that's a
good point. I mean, it's easy. I

1204
01:11:57,630 --> 01:12:00,330
think a lot of people think that
the podcaster side of this is

1205
01:12:00,330 --> 01:12:03,690
difficult, and it's not it's
like a tag with a link to

1206
01:12:03,690 --> 01:12:04,620
notice. But

1207
01:12:04,919 --> 01:12:09,359
what what is what we have here
is a failure to communicate. Go

1208
01:12:09,359 --> 01:12:13,559
look at the engagement on
podcasting. 2.0 It's a lot of no

1209
01:12:13,559 --> 01:12:18,299
agenda, people who are balls to
the wall doing shows that listen

1210
01:12:18,299 --> 01:12:23,339
to Spencer, and and going
completely flying without a net.

1211
01:12:24,059 --> 01:12:28,949
And, yeah, it's really true.
It's beautiful to watch. And,

1212
01:12:29,699 --> 01:12:33,929
and I it needs to be recognized
that people are using it.

1213
01:12:34,229 --> 01:12:38,669
They're using it. Let's go,
let's let's they're ready for it

1214
01:12:38,669 --> 01:12:41,669
anything you do anything
actually. So, but just again,

1215
01:12:41,939 --> 01:12:45,599
John again, um, I just got I'm
so sick of the numbers. Hardly

1216
01:12:45,599 --> 01:12:50,039
anybody's using it. Okay,
chicken egg. There. It's not

1217
01:12:50,039 --> 01:12:54,029
hardly anyone's using it. We put
a tag in if one person uses

1218
01:12:54,030 --> 01:13:00,540
it. Well, yeah, but what I mean,
like what, when you say just do

1219
01:13:00,540 --> 01:13:05,280
it? I mean, there's no. I mean,
you got what do we do? Know

1220
01:13:05,310 --> 01:13:08,460
what, what a formalized attack?
Yes, yes, no,

1221
01:13:08,490 --> 01:13:12,360
no. But what I'm saying what I'm
saying is, we're getting off

1222
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:17,310
track by we're being distracted
by do we do we make it lightning

1223
01:13:17,310 --> 01:13:21,120
comments? I mean, it will not
get done on the path we're on?

1224
01:13:21,570 --> 01:13:23,400
And that's because, I don't
know, see, I

1225
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:26,550
mean, I'm formalizing the tag.
Right. You know, I mean, we're,

1226
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:29,610
I'm putting it into Phase Five
right now. I mean, it's, it's

1227
01:13:29,610 --> 01:13:33,270
getting done, it just has like
pot friend, pot friend and curio

1228
01:13:33,270 --> 01:13:37,770
caster and, you know, pod verse,
These are forward looking at me

1229
01:13:37,770 --> 01:13:41,070
of apps that are willing to do
experimental things. Most apps

1230
01:13:41,070 --> 01:13:44,250
are not like that understood and
understood, they're not, they're

1231
01:13:44,250 --> 01:13:48,930
not going to do that. It has to
be a formal spec before, before

1232
01:13:48,930 --> 01:13:54,660
it can be before it can be done.
I mean, there. I'm not. I'm not

1233
01:13:54,660 --> 01:13:58,230
bothered by the slow by the slow
roll of this, it, it doesn't

1234
01:13:58,230 --> 01:14:01,890
bother me because I because
every time we come up with some

1235
01:14:02,310 --> 01:14:05,730
new edge case that has to be
handled, we're thankful that we

1236
01:14:05,730 --> 01:14:06,960
didn't go too fast on it.

1237
01:14:07,110 --> 01:14:10,860
Dave, I'm, I'm completely in
agreement. What I'm saying is,

1238
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:16,170
I'm disappointed that the
creators are, are being left out

1239
01:14:16,170 --> 01:14:17,910
of the conversation and ignored.

1240
01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:22,860
Well, there's just disagreement,
there's nothing What do you mean

1241
01:14:22,860 --> 01:14:24,840
by that? Yeah, I don't I don't
understand what you mean by

1242
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:27,480
that. They're not being ignored.
Because there's nothing to

1243
01:14:27,510 --> 01:14:30,540
there's nothing, it doesn't
exist yet to give to them. But

1244
01:14:30,540 --> 01:14:30,840
when

1245
01:14:30,870 --> 01:14:31,740
when it comes.

1246
01:14:33,900 --> 01:14:36,960
Like because there's no formal
specification to give when

1247
01:14:37,260 --> 01:14:42,030
I look at what people are
arguing about, or discussing,

1248
01:14:42,690 --> 01:14:46,890
and once once the lightning
comments came back, that's when

1249
01:14:46,890 --> 01:14:50,430
I went, Okay, well, it'll be
forever because that's going to

1250
01:14:50,430 --> 01:14:52,440
go on for a long time. And I'm
just saying,

1251
01:14:52,980 --> 01:14:57,240
no, no, no, no, I don't think
it's gonna slow anything down at

1252
01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:00,600
all. No, because in that that's
the point of was trying to make

1253
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:03,540
and I did it ever clearly I did
a terrible job was that? I don't

1254
01:15:03,540 --> 01:15:07,980
think that though I don't think
it's a format war, if it was an

1255
01:15:07,980 --> 01:15:11,160
actual format war, if this was
RSS versus Adam, it would be a

1256
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:14,130
problem. But I don't think
there's a format war at all. But

1257
01:15:14,130 --> 01:15:18,330
isn't isn't activity pub versus
Twitter by definition of format

1258
01:15:18,330 --> 01:15:18,690
war?

1259
01:15:19,950 --> 01:15:22,350
Well, I don't I don't think
anybody cares about Twitter at

1260
01:15:22,350 --> 01:15:22,740
this point.

1261
01:15:22,740 --> 01:15:25,650
Okay, then why why do we even
make it possible to incorporate

1262
01:15:25,650 --> 01:15:25,830
it?

1263
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:30,120
I think I think you put it in
there as possible, just to make

1264
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:35,370
sure it will the same way that
we put in the option for there

1265
01:15:35,370 --> 01:15:39,420
to be an ether coin in the value
value block. Good point. Nobody

1266
01:15:39,420 --> 01:15:39,840
cares.

1267
01:15:39,870 --> 01:15:45,150
Good point. Yeah, the altar
enclosure is an approved and

1268
01:15:45,150 --> 01:15:49,230
implemented tag, correct. Guess
how many apps supported?

1269
01:15:50,730 --> 01:15:57,450
Want to think to a may be
leaving one out now.

1270
01:15:57,480 --> 01:16:02,430
So I so I have a I have torrent
RSS feeds of all my shows in

1271
01:16:02,430 --> 01:16:08,850
torrent? I have. I'd love to do
some IPFS. I don't have the I

1272
01:16:08,850 --> 01:16:12,180
don't have the tools. I don't
have the tools to make it. And I

1273
01:16:12,180 --> 01:16:15,420
don't have anyone to receive it.
And that's that's a tag that is

1274
01:16:15,660 --> 01:16:16,500
good to go.

1275
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:21,180
Nobody wants it though. I want
to hear that. But you're not.

1276
01:16:21,210 --> 01:16:22,770
You're not exactly.

1277
01:16:22,770 --> 01:16:25,170
And there we are. Thank you.
Yeah, point made.

1278
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:28,500
You're not You're not a
listener. And so keep pushing.

1279
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:31,740
I'm not I'm not, I'm not a
listener. I'm not a listener, I

1280
01:16:31,740 --> 01:16:34,200
can't talk to my listeners. I
can't convince them to do

1281
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:37,020
anything. And they never asked
me for anything. That's that.

1282
01:16:37,050 --> 01:16:38,250
That's the disconnect,

1283
01:16:38,459 --> 01:16:41,459
that the problem with something
like that that you're describing

1284
01:16:41,459 --> 01:16:47,129
is that the listener can tell no
difference between a podcast

1285
01:16:47,129 --> 01:16:51,599
delivered through IPFS. And
through HTTP download. There's

1286
01:16:51,629 --> 01:16:57,359
absolutely zero benefit,
perceived perceived benefit to

1287
01:16:57,359 --> 01:17:01,469
the listener. And for features
like that. apps do not care.

1288
01:17:01,709 --> 01:17:05,069
Now, they won the first app to
implement alternate enclosure

1289
01:17:05,099 --> 01:17:08,729
was pod LP. They had an actual
reason for

1290
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:16,170
specific reason for you. But But
if I wanted to do video I'd want

1291
01:17:16,170 --> 01:17:19,770
to have the alternative tag
alternative enclosure tag, I

1292
01:17:19,770 --> 01:17:24,060
want to have the media tag
implemented, you know, so So now

1293
01:17:24,060 --> 01:17:26,820
we're at a different chicken and
egg. When can I start creating

1294
01:17:26,820 --> 01:17:31,740
stuff using features? If they're
not implemented? Do I just go to

1295
01:17:31,830 --> 01:17:34,800
podcast index dot social and
say, Hey, what are we going to?

1296
01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:37,710
Do? You understand? Do you
understand? I'm just saying

1297
01:17:37,710 --> 01:17:41,100
there's, there's technology
dilemmas. And then there's a

1298
01:17:41,100 --> 01:17:46,680
dynamic between the developers
and the creators. It's not all

1299
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:49,770
just about the listeners, the
Creators talk to the listeners

1300
01:17:49,770 --> 01:17:52,440
tell them what to do they
explain it to them, they help

1301
01:17:52,440 --> 01:17:57,450
them get on board. That's that's
the missing piece here is we're

1302
01:17:57,450 --> 01:18:01,590
always like, Oh, well, everyone,
people don't. I think people go

1303
01:18:01,590 --> 01:18:04,620
to YouTube, not because it's
YouTube, because oh, that's

1304
01:18:04,620 --> 01:18:07,080
where they found it. Or that's
where it's easy to listen to.

1305
01:18:07,650 --> 01:18:10,530
They'll go anywhere to find it
as long as it fits within their

1306
01:18:10,530 --> 01:18:13,560
realm. And we're not really
driving any of that.

1307
01:18:14,670 --> 01:18:17,580
That's it, we'll look at YouTube
as an example of something like

1308
01:18:17,580 --> 01:18:20,610
the alternate enclosure.
Alternate enclosure is a direct

1309
01:18:20,610 --> 01:18:26,160
replacement, a decentralized
replacement for YouTube's

1310
01:18:26,220 --> 01:18:31,560
automatic quality scaling. It's
one of the it's one of the

1311
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:36,960
aspects of alternate enclosure.
The The reason YouTube had to

1312
01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:40,890
have that was because it was it
without it was a bad experience.

1313
01:18:41,970 --> 01:18:47,100
The issue with with podcasts is
you give the same thing. But

1314
01:18:47,100 --> 01:18:51,840
there are so few video podcasts.
And most podcasts quality is

1315
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:55,710
decent, because the bit rates
are small. That the the need for

1316
01:18:55,710 --> 01:18:58,770
the alternate enclosure
perceived a need for it is tiny,

1317
01:18:58,800 --> 01:18:59,190
but let

1318
01:18:59,190 --> 01:19:02,220
me approach it from a different.
Let's stick with YouTube. And

1319
01:19:02,220 --> 01:19:07,650
then I'll shut up the main
difference between a podcast and

1320
01:19:07,650 --> 01:19:11,910
an app and podcast and YouTube,
can you tell me there's one

1321
01:19:12,180 --> 01:19:14,880
difference? And I don't care if
it's audio or video, lots of

1322
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:18,360
people listen to audio podcasts
on YouTube with just the album

1323
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:22,710
art image. What is the main
difference? In that experience

1324
01:19:22,980 --> 01:19:25,590
between between listening to a
podcast on YouTube and listening

1325
01:19:25,590 --> 01:19:33,720
to one in a podcast app? The the
main difference would be well, I

1326
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:37,710
can think of a few. But I mean,
the one that jumps to mind is

1327
01:19:37,710 --> 01:19:38,280
it's easy.

1328
01:19:38,490 --> 01:19:40,200
Okay, John, any thoughts?

1329
01:19:40,230 --> 01:19:42,840
You can use your app any app
right? You can use the app

1330
01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:45,810
you're already familiar with.
Whereas if you

1331
01:19:46,140 --> 01:19:48,720
know what's different, what's
the what's the difference

1332
01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:52,470
between listening to a podcast
on YouTube or the YouTube app? I

1333
01:19:52,470 --> 01:19:55,470
don't care for a podcast app.
What's the difference?

1334
01:19:56,400 --> 01:19:58,200
Well, you need to be premium
first of all or else it's gonna

1335
01:19:58,200 --> 01:19:59,250
be a horrible experience.

1336
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:04,950
What is difference? Between
premium? What's the difference?

1337
01:20:05,370 --> 01:20:08,130
Yeah, I'm looking, I'm looking
at the chat room, they're not

1338
01:20:08,130 --> 01:20:09,000
getting it either.

1339
01:20:09,990 --> 01:20:10,920
There's not a difference.

1340
01:20:10,980 --> 01:20:13,950
Well, honestly, what I would say
is that there is really not much

1341
01:20:13,950 --> 01:20:14,400
of a difference.

1342
01:20:14,430 --> 01:20:22,140
Okay? Are you ready for it?
Comments? Calm comments. That's,

1343
01:20:22,380 --> 01:20:27,810
that's the difference. I've been
on big podcasts. And the

1344
01:20:27,810 --> 01:20:34,140
community is in the comments
1000s And 1000s of them comments

1345
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:41,280
on my language, see, that's why
I was I was sold in December,

1346
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:44,850
whatever, when I started
working. So I think that that is

1347
01:20:44,850 --> 01:20:48,210
actually a, I would like to see,
I'm basically doing whatever I

1348
01:20:48,210 --> 01:20:51,060
can to make it as easy for apps
to implement this because I

1349
01:20:51,060 --> 01:20:55,110
think it benefits every app to
do this. Because the more we

1350
01:20:55,110 --> 01:20:58,740
kind of pool our user base,
right, the more we're not doing

1351
01:20:58,770 --> 01:21:01,740
our own separate comments. I'm
writing an app now, right? I'm

1352
01:21:01,740 --> 01:21:04,980
creating comments. If comments
don't exist, I'm still gonna do

1353
01:21:04,980 --> 01:21:08,220
comments, they will just be
locked in my app. And so we

1354
01:21:08,220 --> 01:21:11,130
haven't really gone anywhere. I
think the beauty of this is that

1355
01:21:11,130 --> 01:21:14,970
we've actually defined a way
that works to do it across apps.

1356
01:21:15,060 --> 01:21:18,900
And so I'm personally going to
do whatever I can to keep making

1357
01:21:18,900 --> 01:21:21,030
that happen. Because I think
it's actually a cool fall off.

1358
01:21:21,030 --> 01:21:21,780
Not that hard. I'm

1359
01:21:21,780 --> 01:21:27,660
saying is there's no difference.
No other difference. That's,

1360
01:21:27,660 --> 01:21:31,110
that's the main difference.
Yeah, I mean, when and now what

1361
01:21:31,110 --> 01:21:34,710
they do have, and this is an if
you just want just look at a

1362
01:21:34,710 --> 01:21:38,910
successful model. They have the
Super Chat. Now that is how you

1363
01:21:38,910 --> 01:21:42,240
can incorporate boost into the
comments. They by the way, they

1364
01:21:42,240 --> 01:21:44,310
don't show up in the comments
below, they show up in a

1365
01:21:44,310 --> 01:21:48,900
separate area on YouTube. So if
we're truly worried about

1366
01:21:48,900 --> 01:21:52,530
YouTube coming in and stomping
all over podcasting, well, let's

1367
01:21:52,530 --> 01:21:56,250
at least do what they do equally
or better. And I think we can.

1368
01:21:57,450 --> 01:21:58,080
No, I think we

1369
01:21:58,080 --> 01:22:00,480
can do Yeah, absolute goodness
said it better myself. That's

1370
01:22:00,510 --> 01:22:05,730
that's actually but the live
chat issue and the booster grams

1371
01:22:05,730 --> 01:22:07,650
there. I think that's where it
really comes into play. They

1372
01:22:07,650 --> 01:22:10,380
have the notion of, but actually
don't have the notion of a live

1373
01:22:10,380 --> 01:22:12,780
replay like Twitch, where they
show that but

1374
01:22:12,780 --> 01:22:16,380
if we if we just did a UX copy,
we just did a UX comparison side

1375
01:22:16,380 --> 01:22:19,890
by side. Yeah. Any any study
that just said, what are the

1376
01:22:19,890 --> 01:22:22,950
main features would say, Well,
look, look what's going on here.

1377
01:22:23,130 --> 01:22:26,550
People seem to come back here to
read, if there's replies to

1378
01:22:26,550 --> 01:22:28,860
their comments. I mean,

1379
01:22:29,850 --> 01:22:32,400
testers can go there. And
instead of going to five

1380
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:35,250
different apps, they can go to
one place to see all the

1381
01:22:35,250 --> 01:22:37,710
feedback on you know, the entire
community feedback for a given

1382
01:22:37,710 --> 01:22:40,890
episode, I think podcasters, you
know, going back to the Creator

1383
01:22:40,890 --> 01:22:44,490
side of this, they have number
one, they have control over what

1384
01:22:44,490 --> 01:22:46,710
happens at that endpoint where
they don't have control over

1385
01:22:46,710 --> 01:22:49,920
that in Twitter or YouTube.
Correct. But number two, they

1386
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:52,350
have one place to go. So they
kind of have their own, they can

1387
01:22:52,350 --> 01:22:56,190
use that channel. That's the
ideal their own community. So I

1388
01:22:56,190 --> 01:22:58,470
think it's like and then and
then this thing community

1389
01:22:58,470 --> 01:22:58,920
system,

1390
01:22:58,950 --> 01:23:03,450
and it be a community. Now, I
understand all the apprehension

1391
01:23:03,450 --> 01:23:07,140
and and having apps or having
comments in someone's app may

1392
01:23:07,140 --> 01:23:10,860
not and may not be for
everybody. But that's literally

1393
01:23:10,860 --> 01:23:17,670
what people want. And end to end
to have a an I think you're the

1394
01:23:17,670 --> 01:23:21,420
cast pod would agreed to own
that, quote, unquote, to have

1395
01:23:21,420 --> 01:23:24,060
that within in your control,
certainly not to have someone

1396
01:23:24,060 --> 01:23:27,810
else determine what can or can't
what comment can or cannot be

1397
01:23:27,870 --> 01:23:32,880
visible. That's what we're doing
here. That's the whole point.

1398
01:23:33,930 --> 01:23:43,530
So, yeah, let's do it. Where are
we done yet? Well, i i It's kind

1399
01:23:43,530 --> 01:23:46,380
of nice. It folds together
because this this, you know,

1400
01:23:46,380 --> 01:23:50,250
it's apples to oranges to a
degree YouTube to podcasting.

1401
01:23:50,250 --> 01:23:53,970
And I'm also just, I'm so sick
of hearing about it, like do a

1402
01:23:53,970 --> 01:23:57,480
show me something already, or
YouTube's eating our lunch or

1403
01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:01,920
the independent apps are dying?
Well, no, I just I just

1404
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:05,550
disagree. This is just a metric.
But it's not the metric.

1405
01:24:06,750 --> 01:24:09,030
And it's what you said about
incentives is really important.

1406
01:24:09,030 --> 01:24:12,420
I think there's a limited amount
of push you guys can do and all

1407
01:24:12,420 --> 01:24:15,060
of us can do. I think some of
its going to have to be pulled

1408
01:24:15,060 --> 01:24:18,450
like people are going to have to
be excited. But an app developer

1409
01:24:18,450 --> 01:24:21,600
is going to have to be excited
about adding this before any of

1410
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:24,990
this stuff takes off. So maybe
some of the apprehension is that

1411
01:24:24,990 --> 01:24:27,270
people just aren't that excited
app developers aren't that

1412
01:24:27,270 --> 01:24:28,530
excited adding this feature.

1413
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:31,800
Okay, just let's not all get our
panties in a bunch when YouTube

1414
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:34,980
has people going over there for
certain things we don't have.

1415
01:24:35,160 --> 01:24:39,060
But I don't Well, I think it's a
little more complicated than

1416
01:24:39,060 --> 01:24:43,260
that. Because Youtube, the the
Super Chat. The Choose Super

1417
01:24:43,260 --> 01:24:46,110
Chat experience on YouTube
really only exists on the

1418
01:24:46,110 --> 01:24:52,110
desktop. The mobile, the mobile
side of that is a mess. The it's

1419
01:24:52,110 --> 01:24:55,620
only a good experience in
YouTube when you're watching it

1420
01:24:55,620 --> 01:25:00,930
at a out on the web. And I think
that's pretty Probably an

1421
01:25:00,930 --> 01:25:04,800
instinctive thing that people
understand. And that's probably

1422
01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:10,950
why pod friend and pod verse and
you know, impossibly curio

1423
01:25:10,950 --> 01:25:13,860
caster are the ones to implement
it first. Because when you have

1424
01:25:13,890 --> 01:25:19,500
you have, you know, screen real
estate to to really enjoy the

1425
01:25:19,500 --> 01:25:24,180
experience of having a chat and
a video in one screen. Now I'm

1426
01:25:24,180 --> 01:25:26,130
not saying it's impossible with
mobile,

1427
01:25:26,160 --> 01:25:29,310
but no, but I'm totally I'm
totally in agreement. I think

1428
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:32,460
that's why I've I've always been
a fan of web apps in general for

1429
01:25:32,460 --> 01:25:33,450
this very reason.

1430
01:25:33,930 --> 01:25:39,570
But see that in and that's why
that's, that's why probably the

1431
01:25:39,570 --> 01:25:43,770
adoption within the podcast app
ecosystem is going to be slower

1432
01:25:43,770 --> 01:25:49,590
for comments than it will be on
on the website, or maybe even on

1433
01:25:49,590 --> 01:25:54,000
YouTube proper is because
YouTube, for all I mean, for all

1434
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:57,090
it's, for all its growth on
mobile and everything. Well, you

1435
01:25:57,090 --> 01:26:00,600
know, YouTube really is still
the best experience on the web.

1436
01:26:00,630 --> 01:26:03,510
And so and that's not
traditionally been the case for

1437
01:26:03,510 --> 01:26:07,380
podcasts. So there has to be
like that's, that's where it

1438
01:26:07,380 --> 01:26:11,100
this is exciting, though,
because that's where web, good

1439
01:26:11,130 --> 01:26:14,310
web apps like pod verse and
Courier caster and pod friend

1440
01:26:14,670 --> 01:26:18,960
can really shine and take back
some market share from the

1441
01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:20,310
mobile aspect of things.

1442
01:26:20,370 --> 01:26:25,440
It's such a such a small step
from a woman wanting to listen

1443
01:26:25,440 --> 01:26:29,460
to a podcast to click on a link
land on a web page versus

1444
01:26:29,490 --> 01:26:33,810
landing on a progressive web
page. It's the smallest step

1445
01:26:33,810 --> 01:26:39,780
known to mankind. It's the same
thing. So I need to do better.

1446
01:26:39,810 --> 01:26:43,800
And I need to be, you know what,
here's some low hanging fruit

1447
01:26:43,800 --> 01:26:46,710
that I want to talk about. It
folds into this. I was looking

1448
01:26:46,710 --> 01:26:50,370
for a web page for Korean the
keeper podcast, because it's the

1449
01:26:50,370 --> 01:26:53,520
typical freedom controller page.
You know, I love my freedom

1450
01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:58,590
controller. My wife's like, you
know, she's in marketing

1451
01:26:58,590 --> 01:27:01,200
communications like, God is this
piece of shit?

1452
01:27:01,260 --> 01:27:02,670
Oh, throw and Shay.

1453
01:27:02,700 --> 01:27:08,670
Yeah. Well, I took the I took
the brunt of it, Dave. And so we

1454
01:27:08,670 --> 01:27:11,520
talked about on the grenade.
Yeah. So we talked about on the

1455
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:14,970
show. And of course, as it
always happens, so much it was

1456
01:27:14,970 --> 01:27:17,100
actually Dave Jackson says,
Well, you know what, why don't

1457
01:27:17,100 --> 01:27:20,850
you take a look at pod page,
like, oh, pod page and pod page.

1458
01:27:20,850 --> 01:27:23,700
You know, you just I did it. I
claimed my

1459
01:27:23,700 --> 01:27:27,360
feed. And, and it was easy,
because your emails are out

1460
01:27:27,360 --> 01:27:27,810
there. That's

1461
01:27:27,810 --> 01:27:32,190
right. And I read a couple more
offers at the same time. And I

1462
01:27:32,190 --> 01:27:37,080
liked it. And so you know, and
just by reading the feed, and

1463
01:27:37,080 --> 01:27:38,700
you have a couple Yup, we
actually have a lot of

1464
01:27:38,700 --> 01:27:42,210
configuration options, and boom,
it pops up. And I'm like, wow,

1465
01:27:42,210 --> 01:27:45,780
that's a really decent website.
That really looks pretty good.

1466
01:27:45,810 --> 01:27:48,270
Except and you can map your
domain name to it and

1467
01:27:48,270 --> 01:27:53,310
everything. Except, yeah, gee, I
mean, there's zero podcasting

1468
01:27:53,310 --> 01:27:59,640
2.0 features in it. No chapters,
no transcripts, any of that. And

1469
01:27:59,670 --> 01:28:03,180
just to add insult to injury
right below the you know, the

1470
01:28:03,180 --> 01:28:07,140
each individual episode, it has
a, an Apple icon and a Spotify

1471
01:28:07,140 --> 01:28:14,610
icon. So here's an opportunity.
Because right now, I hear a lot

1472
01:28:14,610 --> 01:28:19,530
of talk about the podcasters
page, you know, and of course,

1473
01:28:19,530 --> 01:28:23,730
we all in the hosting companies
all do a yeoman's job of giving

1474
01:28:23,730 --> 01:28:27,450
people free pages. But just
think about this opportunity

1475
01:28:27,450 --> 01:28:30,480
that's just sitting out there. I
mean, I'll use it. I'll use it

1476
01:28:30,480 --> 01:28:33,990
for all my shows, look at all of
my podcast, except for no agenda

1477
01:28:33,990 --> 01:28:37,980
show which. But the show notes
pages are just freedom

1478
01:28:37,980 --> 01:28:39,900
controller renderings of
outlines.

1479
01:28:41,580 --> 01:28:45,240
Yeah, I mean, given James was
interested over at pod news. And

1480
01:28:45,270 --> 01:28:48,660
I mean, the more structured data
you have on an episode, you

1481
01:28:48,660 --> 01:28:52,380
could share those on the on the
pod, the pod news generated page

1482
01:28:52,380 --> 01:28:53,310
as well. But I

1483
01:28:53,310 --> 01:28:55,530
just want to send a whole bunch
of women to something they're

1484
01:28:55,560 --> 01:28:58,680
comfortable with. And they don't
seem to want an app, they listen

1485
01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:02,400
to some of my shows on a on a
web page. Why not have it be a

1486
01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:05,850
fantastic experience. And I have
a lot more real estate to

1487
01:29:05,850 --> 01:29:08,940
explain how to how to fill up a
wallet.

1488
01:29:09,480 --> 01:29:15,510
Pro tip. You can include custom
CSS on the controller page and

1489
01:29:15,510 --> 01:29:16,770
change the entire way it looks.

1490
01:29:16,920 --> 01:29:21,150
Yeah, this CSS is kind of where
it breaks down for me.

1491
01:29:22,830 --> 01:29:25,650
Yeah, this is your wish to do
that. Back in the day. I

1492
01:29:25,650 --> 01:29:28,650
remember you had a competition
on ninja. Oh, no agenda one time

1493
01:29:28,650 --> 01:29:32,160
of like, hey, I want everybody
to submit custom CSS for the

1494
01:29:32,460 --> 01:29:37,260
O shaped pages, but also also
the change words. That is

1495
01:29:37,260 --> 01:29:37,800
referred to

1496
01:29:38,880 --> 01:29:40,890
the Chrome extension. Yeah,
Chrome extensions.

1497
01:29:41,340 --> 01:29:44,130
You can do crazy stuff with CSS
nowadays. I'm sure you could.

1498
01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:47,160
Yeah, you can replace content.
You can. Yeah,

1499
01:29:47,250 --> 01:29:52,380
I'm just a podcast. I can I can.
I can look at I can look at my

1500
01:29:52,380 --> 01:29:55,650
feed and kind of figure out
what's going on. That's the

1501
01:29:55,650 --> 01:29:56,130
level.

1502
01:29:57,180 --> 01:30:00,960
That pot page 2.0 ideas really,
really Good because that is a

1503
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:03,330
way it's like a very low
friction way. It's not a whole

1504
01:30:03,330 --> 01:30:06,750
app that you have to install.
Boom, here's an episode. And

1505
01:30:06,750 --> 01:30:09,390
it's lit up by all these new
tags.

1506
01:30:09,570 --> 01:30:15,150
I mean, I'll be honest with you,
I, I use breeze frequently. But

1507
01:30:15,150 --> 01:30:19,950
that's, I would say, for some
reason, I can always count on

1508
01:30:19,950 --> 01:30:24,690
breeze to refresh the feed. And
there I do have problems with my

1509
01:30:24,690 --> 01:30:27,930
browsers with caching and shit.
Sometimes things, you know,

1510
01:30:27,930 --> 01:30:31,710
haven't updated when they should
have so often, yeah, I'll use

1511
01:30:31,710 --> 01:30:34,920
breeze just to make sure I have
the most recent version, then I

1512
01:30:34,920 --> 01:30:38,340
have to quit out of breeze
because it gets my battery gets

1513
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:41,880
to hold the whole phone and
starts to heat up after after a

1514
01:30:41,880 --> 01:30:42,390
while

1515
01:30:42,420 --> 01:30:45,960
from the Chrome has always been
such a pain when it comes to

1516
01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:50,190
caching like it. It is just when
it comes to it's nasty.

1517
01:30:50,400 --> 01:30:54,240
But then I have now I use pod
friend because it has a

1518
01:30:54,240 --> 01:30:59,910
beautiful. Yeah, it has a little
list there of the episodes that

1519
01:30:59,910 --> 01:31:03,540
I have feeds that I subscribe to
in chronological order. So I go

1520
01:31:03,540 --> 01:31:05,940
oh, there's that one. There's
that one. So I know what's

1521
01:31:05,970 --> 01:31:09,840
updated. I list of little
bullets and new that's horrible

1522
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:14,640
to me. I like I'm a river of
news guy, if anything. But then

1523
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:19,260
curio caster just has all the
features I want. And when I go

1524
01:31:19,260 --> 01:31:22,650
to my desktop, fire it up. It's
there. My subscriptions, you

1525
01:31:22,650 --> 01:31:26,310
know, I can use it on any
computer. I want. Mobile or big

1526
01:31:26,310 --> 01:31:30,750
screen. I have to say I find my
even Twitter, I use the web app.

1527
01:31:30,750 --> 01:31:35,010
I don't use apps anymore. Oh,
and I'm not just because I'm

1528
01:31:35,010 --> 01:31:40,080
Boomer adjacent. Douchebag in
the cotton gin. You're ahead of

1529
01:31:40,080 --> 01:31:43,380
the game. Yeah. Cotton Gin in
the chat rooms going through a

1530
01:31:43,380 --> 01:31:44,700
bunch of boomers in here.

1531
01:31:45,540 --> 01:31:50,100
Well, I mean, did you use mutt
as your email client? Mean?

1532
01:31:50,790 --> 01:31:54,210
There's some truth. But okay, so
what's happening right this

1533
01:31:54,210 --> 01:31:56,940
moment, and I think it's good to
step back and get perspective

1534
01:31:56,940 --> 01:31:59,700
here. What's happening right at
this moment is that a lot of

1535
01:31:59,700 --> 01:32:04,980
people are listening to the show
on curio caster. Mm hmm. And the

1536
01:32:04,980 --> 01:32:09,150
chat should be showing up also
included us. So yes, this, this

1537
01:32:09,150 --> 01:32:14,100
is super chat happening at the
moment. And also from the

1538
01:32:14,100 --> 01:32:18,510
perspective of Steven B. If
people are boosting through Kira

1539
01:32:18,510 --> 01:32:21,240
Castro while they're listening
right now, he's getting a

1540
01:32:21,240 --> 01:32:25,500
percentage of those of those
stats. That's your incentive to

1541
01:32:25,500 --> 01:32:28,050
do the adoption for a lot of
these things. If you're on the

1542
01:32:28,050 --> 01:32:30,990
web platform. Now get really
good stuff.

1543
01:32:31,049 --> 01:32:35,099
Unfortunately, with today's live
experiment, it seems like the ln

1544
01:32:35,099 --> 01:32:38,339
pay node could not handle
whatever was going on, or I'm,

1545
01:32:38,519 --> 01:32:42,119
I'm just not receiving payments
for some reason. But we did get

1546
01:32:42,809 --> 01:32:49,709
the 10,034 from Darren and he
came in with a second 133 33,333

1547
01:32:49,709 --> 01:32:52,889
He says he still had some SATs
leftover from random thoughts,

1548
01:32:52,979 --> 01:32:57,899
unrelenting, and planet rage.
And this is our vague he says,

1549
01:32:58,289 --> 01:32:58,619
Did you

1550
01:32:58,620 --> 01:33:03,300
get my test boost earlier? Nope.
It's it it went through now.

1551
01:33:03,360 --> 01:33:05,130
Then. videos from CAST Matic it
may

1552
01:33:05,130 --> 01:33:07,830
be the exorbitant fees I have
said on the nodes.

1553
01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:13,620
Spencer, it's like do it like
Yeah, I told you so.

1554
01:33:14,520 --> 01:33:18,750
Well, they shouldn't fail. Yeah,
true. I got. I have lots of

1555
01:33:18,750 --> 01:33:20,070
routes. It shouldn't fail.

1556
01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:22,350
But I got confetti on my side.
Someone's going through.

1557
01:33:22,710 --> 01:33:23,280
Okay.

1558
01:33:24,450 --> 01:33:28,590
I don't know. I don't know. But
oh, I know what Yeah. And it was

1559
01:33:28,590 --> 01:33:29,400
Brahmanism. Also,

1560
01:33:29,400 --> 01:33:35,010
my home IP also wound up on the
spam house list or whatever. I

1561
01:33:35,010 --> 01:33:39,150
don't know how that happened.
Oh, crap. This. All of a sudden,

1562
01:33:39,150 --> 01:33:41,010
I couldn't get to my my mail
server.

1563
01:33:41,550 --> 01:33:44,340
I've got new internet. I'm on
one gig right now, baby.

1564
01:33:44,820 --> 01:33:49,590
I can tell you sounds so much
better way to live. Yes. sounds

1565
01:33:49,590 --> 01:33:50,580
so much better.

1566
01:33:50,820 --> 01:33:51,990
Hey, do we want to thank people?

1567
01:33:52,230 --> 01:33:55,620
Yeah, yeah. Wow, an hour and a
half. This has been this has

1568
01:33:55,620 --> 01:33:59,160
been a very intense board
meeting. Gentlemen, I enjoyed

1569
01:33:59,160 --> 01:34:02,940
this trip. Hold on a second. Let
me just knock off the official

1570
01:34:02,940 --> 01:34:06,810
part. Let's, let's thank some
people who supported the not

1571
01:34:06,810 --> 01:34:09,990
just the podcast, but that
there's my dog, but the project.

1572
01:34:10,560 --> 01:34:15,180
So when you support us, you're
supporting the work. Certainly

1573
01:34:15,180 --> 01:34:17,550
the work Dave's doing you are
supporting, although not Dave

1574
01:34:17,550 --> 01:34:21,540
not getting any money. But we're
getting SATs one way or the

1575
01:34:21,540 --> 01:34:25,410
other. But you're really helping
the machinery run and and giving

1576
01:34:25,410 --> 01:34:30,870
us a bit of runway to continue
to grow as we expect to and you

1577
01:34:30,870 --> 01:34:34,140
can do that. Well, obviously,
anyone who's contributing their

1578
01:34:34,140 --> 01:34:37,950
time or talent is helping right
off the bat. And that's how

1579
01:34:37,950 --> 01:34:41,340
value for value should work.
Having the treasure angle is

1580
01:34:41,340 --> 01:34:44,970
very helpful to keep it running.
And we'd like booster grams we'd

1581
01:34:44,970 --> 01:34:48,240
like Satoshis because we just
poured those.

1582
01:34:49,320 --> 01:34:51,270
Yes, numbers go up.

1583
01:34:52,770 --> 01:34:53,520
Not today.

1584
01:34:54,660 --> 01:34:59,400
So do you have a node? John,
that we can get a split of this

1585
01:34:59,400 --> 01:34:59,880
episode?

1586
01:35:01,050 --> 01:35:04,560
Oh, yeah, I have one of those
cute Bitcoin machines. I had to

1587
01:35:04,560 --> 01:35:08,520
bug the guy incessantly in order
for him to ship it.

1588
01:35:09,030 --> 01:35:12,360
Oh, okay, I did work. Well, you
can get payments and stuff. I

1589
01:35:12,360 --> 01:35:12,570
think

1590
01:35:12,570 --> 01:35:16,710
so. Yeah, I have a mini pub
project. I have a value block in

1591
01:35:16,710 --> 01:35:19,680
there. I don't if you want to.
I'll send you a block that you

1592
01:35:19,680 --> 01:35:21,600
could use though for this one.
Yep. Okay, cool.

1593
01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:24,720
Send it to me so I can put it
right in the feed before we

1594
01:35:24,720 --> 01:35:25,260
publish

1595
01:35:26,010 --> 01:35:32,760
a scene. So right off the bat.
RSS calm and you want to guess

1596
01:35:33,540 --> 01:35:34,740
RSS calm?

1597
01:35:35,130 --> 01:35:35,970
Yeah, though.

1598
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:38,880
They're they're big supporters.
Do I need to have my hand on the

1599
01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:39,300
button?

1600
01:35:39,780 --> 01:35:42,390
Oh, you better you better be
hovering. Okay. I'm hovering

1601
01:35:43,050 --> 01:35:45,690
$1,000 Whoa.

1602
01:35:45,720 --> 01:35:46,860
Holy crap.

1603
01:35:47,940 --> 01:35:51,750
Shot Carla 20 blades on I am
Paula.

1604
01:35:52,140 --> 01:35:55,440
That's what I'm talking about.
Saying the Dave Sorry. No

1605
01:35:55,440 --> 01:35:56,580
sad puppies today.

1606
01:35:56,610 --> 01:35:58,560
No good work. No

1607
01:35:58,560 --> 01:36:04,380
Go podcasting. 2.0 that is,

1608
01:36:04,710 --> 01:36:11,310
I got to let one out. It wasn't
really a boost, but it just

1609
01:36:11,310 --> 01:36:12,120
makes me feel good.

1610
01:36:13,980 --> 01:36:17,400
Alberto, just really appreciate
it. They've been helping us

1611
01:36:17,430 --> 01:36:22,380
since early early days. Yeah.
And always very responsive in

1612
01:36:22,620 --> 01:36:24,300
the master Dante. They'll jump
in there when?

1613
01:36:24,510 --> 01:36:27,120
And Dan was an implementing
namespace.

1614
01:36:27,900 --> 01:36:35,070
Yeah, straight up. Yep. Thank
you guys. We got $100 from Les.

1615
01:36:35,340 --> 01:36:39,900
Les Barnes. Li he no note. Well,
thank you. Thank you for that.

1616
01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:49,110
You. See $7.77 from Charles
sale. No note. Thank you, Joe.

1617
01:36:49,980 --> 01:36:53,280
That's our that's our PayPals we
get some boosts we get.

1618
01:36:53,730 --> 01:36:57,060
So literally, literally to paper
towels. Yeah, we have

1619
01:36:57,060 --> 01:37:00,540
transition. we've transitioned
into the lower valued Satoshi

1620
01:37:00,540 --> 01:37:01,080
world.

1621
01:37:01,980 --> 01:37:05,850
Yeah, it's like, it's like two
or three paper towels and 40 You

1622
01:37:05,850 --> 01:37:12,690
know, booster grams. Let's see
anonymous, through breeze. 7777

1623
01:37:12,690 --> 01:37:14,640
SATs says heavenly boost.

1624
01:37:14,879 --> 01:37:19,559
Ooh, where's my heavenly? Do we
have a heavenly boost?

1625
01:37:19,680 --> 01:37:25,920
I don't know the heavenly boost.
Let's see. Chad Farah says 3333

1626
01:37:25,950 --> 01:37:28,590
through Fountaine. He says with
all that grunting from Dave I

1627
01:37:28,590 --> 01:37:33,330
thought I was listening to Adam
and John no agenda. A lot last

1628
01:37:33,330 --> 01:37:33,540
week?

1629
01:37:33,840 --> 01:37:41,760
I don't know. I guess I didn't
notice it darling. See, probably

1630
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:42,570
aggravating you.

1631
01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:49,530
Well, this must be Chad Pharaoh
says another 3333 And he says I

1632
01:37:49,530 --> 01:37:52,020
don't like it when mommy and
daddy fight. Maybe we're

1633
01:37:52,020 --> 01:37:53,700
fighting at the time. We never

1634
01:37:53,700 --> 01:37:57,450
fighting. This is how to fight
what you know what it is, is

1635
01:37:57,450 --> 01:38:00,840
people aren't used to honesty to
hearing people have an honest

1636
01:38:00,840 --> 01:38:03,750
conversation because everything
is so fake in the mainstream and

1637
01:38:03,750 --> 01:38:05,040
on a lot of podcasts

1638
01:38:05,640 --> 01:38:10,200
with if if Chad doesn't like,
intense discussion, he probably

1639
01:38:10,260 --> 01:38:13,770
bailed out like 30 minutes ago.
This has been this has been the

1640
01:38:13,770 --> 01:38:17,640
intense board meeting. Cast
peatland. 3300 SATs through

1641
01:38:17,640 --> 01:38:19,140
fountain at CES thanks for the
show.

1642
01:38:19,530 --> 01:38:22,020
Thank you. Yeah, boost.

1643
01:38:23,250 --> 01:38:26,880
Marry Oscar marry one on one
sets really like this idea of

1644
01:38:26,910 --> 01:38:31,110
dated news based episodes,
especially if tied into chapters

1645
01:38:31,110 --> 01:38:33,420
so that apps can mark which
chapters have been played and

1646
01:38:33,420 --> 01:38:35,730
listeners can just carry on from
where they were. Yeah, that

1647
01:38:35,730 --> 01:38:43,200
was for spooler. Yeah. You know,
I heard the bogs on pod land. I

1648
01:38:43,200 --> 01:38:45,960
heard that part. And he was
saying, Yeah, we're really late.

1649
01:38:45,960 --> 01:38:48,360
And he was just talking about
pod ping. Like, it was a whole

1650
01:38:48,360 --> 01:38:48,810
thing.

1651
01:38:49,440 --> 01:38:50,730
Yeah, yeah, it is.

1652
01:38:50,760 --> 01:38:55,260
It is a thing. But yeah, but you
need to recognize that no one's

1653
01:38:55,260 --> 01:38:58,740
jumping up. And you know, and,
and Cridland, just say no,

1654
01:38:58,740 --> 01:39:01,050
you're going to support this.
This is a you know, and

1655
01:39:01,080 --> 01:39:05,070
podcasting via the namespace.
It's now part of the discussion.

1656
01:39:05,730 --> 01:39:09,540
Yeah, it's it's like it's like,
cemented it's in there. I mean,

1657
01:39:09,540 --> 01:39:12,090
we're not going anywhere. We're
only going one way.

1658
01:39:12,570 --> 01:39:14,790
What do you call that? Like a
it's not a house word. What

1659
01:39:14,820 --> 01:39:17,370
household name is like a
household word now within the

1660
01:39:17,370 --> 01:39:19,470
podcast industry? Yeah. Like

1661
01:39:19,500 --> 01:39:22,770
whatever that is. Whatever the
pod is YouTube part of the

1662
01:39:22,800 --> 01:39:26,310
Google part of the podcast
industry. No.

1663
01:39:27,540 --> 01:39:32,640
Never. Patrick Erlich Elric.
Patrick Ulrich said through

1664
01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:36,330
fountain he said 500 SATs and he
said El Salvador for all

1665
01:39:38,070 --> 01:39:39,480
ready to move.

1666
01:39:39,930 --> 01:39:45,780
Did you see that city in Italy?
That's now big is no

1667
01:39:45,780 --> 01:39:48,480
Switzerland, Switzerland,
Switzerland. Lugano?

1668
01:39:49,620 --> 01:39:52,650
Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's
that's that's the

1669
01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:55,200
that's the way to go. You know,
the states in America can do

1670
01:39:55,200 --> 01:39:58,740
that too. They can they can make
their own money.

1671
01:39:59,700 --> 01:40:05,100
texts. First. Yeah, just saying
sir Bill 5000 SATs do fountain

1672
01:40:05,100 --> 01:40:09,480
he says for the marketing
budget. Hey, thank you. Dog here

1673
01:40:09,480 --> 01:40:14,550
it no here. Yes. Tommy. John's
BRT gave us 49,000 SATs do

1674
01:40:14,550 --> 01:40:18,630
fountain he says Theramin boost
I gotta have more Theramin Oh

1675
01:40:18,630 --> 01:40:21,120
crap. We have a Theramin Yeah,
we

1676
01:40:21,119 --> 01:40:26,879
do think we do let's see, I do a
Theramin boost I think

1677
01:40:39,330 --> 01:40:42,180
never enough hands. I'm playing
with Theramin and I hit the

1678
01:40:42,180 --> 01:40:43,740
jingle and I needed an extra
hand.

1679
01:40:45,000 --> 01:40:49,200
Got Sikora? Give us 5150 But Oh
I wonder if that's a Van Halen

1680
01:40:49,200 --> 01:40:49,290
but

1681
01:40:49,320 --> 01:40:52,140
of course it has to be must be
does he say anything?

1682
01:40:52,470 --> 01:40:55,800
He says first time boost. been
loving the show and appreciate

1683
01:40:55,800 --> 01:40:58,320
all the information and hard
work you guys do for podcasting.

1684
01:40:58,590 --> 01:41:03,150
My podcast is talking beards
talking beards calm. Well, I

1685
01:41:03,150 --> 01:41:10,260
think we should bring back the
now that he boosted first ties,

1686
01:41:10,920 --> 01:41:13,110
fragmented Yeah, got to be
defragmented

1687
01:41:13,500 --> 01:41:19,800
I think in that drips kid.
Probably 11 to see the big row

1688
01:41:19,800 --> 01:41:26,940
of ones 1111 to see but what is
this? 11,111 through breeze nice

1689
01:41:26,940 --> 01:41:28,500
anonymous just as cheers.

1690
01:41:29,730 --> 01:41:32,850
Chad F in the chat room says you
guys had a fake fight on the

1691
01:41:32,850 --> 01:41:36,270
last episode. Oh yeah, you got
us. You got us. It was a fake

1692
01:41:36,270 --> 01:41:37,410
fight. Fake.

1693
01:41:37,440 --> 01:41:38,430
They're all fake. They're

1694
01:41:38,880 --> 01:41:41,070
all legit. Well, that's why we
fight.

1695
01:41:41,550 --> 01:41:45,930
Oh, Chad. Speak of the devil
give us 101 says he says this is

1696
01:41:45,930 --> 01:41:47,370
some next level shit.

1697
01:41:48,510 --> 01:41:50,880
Okay, okay, yeah.

1698
01:41:50,909 --> 01:41:55,049
Alrighty then. Martin through
pod friend gave us 100 SATs. He

1699
01:41:55,049 --> 01:42:00,119
says boost test. You can see
when people are doing stuff

1700
01:42:02,459 --> 01:42:08,489
Krimson outwell gave us 6666
That's a demon boost through

1701
01:42:08,489 --> 01:42:12,539
breeze. Oh, steam avatar name.
Poli.

1702
01:42:12,600 --> 01:42:19,290
I made a mistake. What was it?
I'm seeing Steven B. He says the

1703
01:42:19,290 --> 01:42:22,020
reason why Adams not seeing any
of the live boosts is because

1704
01:42:22,020 --> 01:42:24,810
it's boosted rev monitor isn't
in the value block.

1705
01:42:25,980 --> 01:42:26,850
Oh,

1706
01:42:26,879 --> 01:42:32,969
how come that didn't copy over?
Well, so I'm sorry, then that is

1707
01:42:32,999 --> 01:42:38,159
operator failure. And I take
back everything I said. And

1708
01:42:38,159 --> 01:42:40,439
that's too bad. Because
otherwise you would have had a

1709
01:42:40,439 --> 01:42:45,209
lot more. A lot more puce in the
show.

1710
01:42:45,900 --> 01:42:48,960
Bomber. Yeah. There's always
next week. Yeah. Okay. All

1711
01:42:48,960 --> 01:42:54,540
right. Another lesson learned.
Another 6666 Anonymous three

1712
01:42:54,540 --> 01:42:59,010
breeze and he says love my
breeze. We love racing. You do?

1713
01:42:59,940 --> 01:43:04,260
That's right. net net. And it's
33 cents and you just as testing

1714
01:43:05,040 --> 01:43:07,140
just received that move

1715
01:43:09,150 --> 01:43:10,950
33 cents get out of town.

1716
01:43:12,210 --> 01:43:16,920
In the chat room kicker. For the
mere mortals podcast gave us

1717
01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:18,330
2222 row of ducks.

1718
01:43:18,360 --> 01:43:22,080
Yeah, yeah. Rubber Ducks.

1719
01:43:24,270 --> 01:43:27,570
He says if you're going to start
going live, we need the details.

1720
01:43:27,810 --> 01:43:30,210
What's the general start time
and if I donate enough sets will

1721
01:43:30,210 --> 01:43:33,660
you make it later? So I don't
have to wake up at an ungodly

1722
01:43:33,690 --> 01:43:36,420
hour. Oh, that's right. Because
in Australia, can I get a low

1723
01:43:36,420 --> 01:43:42,900
boost as well please add them
and now as the French say it is

1724
01:43:42,900 --> 01:43:44,700
timeful low boost

1725
01:43:45,060 --> 01:43:48,480
that now I understand why I was
getting booster grams from

1726
01:43:48,480 --> 01:43:55,440
Darren because he was doing it
on breeze on episode 75 or 76 so

1727
01:43:55,440 --> 01:43:59,700
that is in the split. Okay,
Mystery solved. Gotcha. I'm

1728
01:43:59,700 --> 01:44:01,560
pissed at myself now. Am it

1729
01:44:02,700 --> 01:44:07,410
get another test boost from
Martin and 400 SAS and then we

1730
01:44:07,410 --> 01:44:12,780
get a user this is Sir Harry
pilgrim okay, I'm not gonna read

1731
01:44:12,780 --> 01:44:17,250
out this ungodly long number
here. He said 3569 says to found

1732
01:44:17,250 --> 01:44:19,710
he says Sir Harry pilgrim
boosting my birthday a couple of

1733
01:44:19,710 --> 01:44:21,600
days late fifth of March boost

1734
01:44:21,630 --> 01:44:24,360
Yes, baby boost boost.

1735
01:44:26,370 --> 01:44:30,330
Again, this looks like well, I
don't can't tell if this. These

1736
01:44:30,330 --> 01:44:32,910
are just numbers. You guys you
got to put a name in there. User

1737
01:44:32,910 --> 01:44:39,360
717454 bla bla bla bla bla gave
us 1000 SATs he says boost from

1738
01:44:39,360 --> 01:44:46,260
recovered podcast podcasting
hope since 2,007x covered

1739
01:44:46,260 --> 01:44:47,430
podcast How you doing?

1740
01:44:49,140 --> 01:44:53,100
That was it. That was it? Well,
and then we have our monthly

1741
01:44:53,970 --> 01:44:56,250
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, that
was that was it for that

1742
01:44:56,250 --> 01:44:58,860
message. Well, this is from
Adam. Is that you?

1743
01:44:59,669 --> 01:45:00,869
I don't know. What did I say?

1744
01:45:01,350 --> 01:45:02,430
He said Nice to meet you.

1745
01:45:03,000 --> 01:45:08,730
Ah, obvious demo booster gram
demo demo

1746
01:45:11,190 --> 01:45:14,100
so don't let the pastor know
that you're self boosting as you

1747
01:45:14,100 --> 01:45:20,640
get to talking to Krimson Algol
6666 again through brazenly says

1748
01:45:20,640 --> 01:45:24,330
booster grams are now 128
characters in breeze Yay. Oh

1749
01:45:24,330 --> 01:45:25,500
that's nice

1750
01:45:31,710 --> 01:45:37,260
20,000 sets through fountain
from Stephen North port Florida.

1751
01:45:37,260 --> 01:45:41,010
Keep doing what you're doing.
Here's a boost for humanity

1752
01:45:41,100 --> 01:45:41,730
boost.

1753
01:45:41,820 --> 01:45:49,920
Oh, we need a boost for
humanity. Boost Okay. All in the

1754
01:45:49,920 --> 01:45:50,460
works.

1755
01:45:51,570 --> 01:45:55,980
Nomad Joe 2000 sets he says live
sounds awesome.

1756
01:45:56,610 --> 01:45:59,790
We just did he just said that.
Oh, no, that was from Spencer's

1757
01:45:59,790 --> 01:46:00,690
sweet. Yeah.

1758
01:46:02,130 --> 01:46:07,680
Oops, Toshi stream, send us 5552
sets through fountain and he

1759
01:46:07,680 --> 01:46:13,470
says in terms of I like I like
these very, you know, the

1760
01:46:14,160 --> 01:46:18,180
conversational boost. In terms
of amount of boost. Dave Jones

1761
01:46:18,180 --> 01:46:20,850
has second place for two
Satoshis dot stream podcast.

1762
01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:25,290
Adam takes eighth place. What
that Dave is the same Dave to

1763
01:46:25,320 --> 01:46:26,760
its first place for Dave.

1764
01:46:27,270 --> 01:46:34,050
Boom. I'm a loser. But is that
is that is that in amount or

1765
01:46:34,050 --> 01:46:34,860
frequency?

1766
01:46:35,310 --> 01:46:39,180
Both? know you've talked about
your eighth place? Yeah, that

1767
01:46:39,180 --> 01:46:39,750
was a mount.

1768
01:46:40,169 --> 01:46:43,229
Okay. But I think I spend a lot
of boosts.

1769
01:46:44,430 --> 01:46:49,440
One thing is one thing is very
is certain. I am the master of

1770
01:46:49,440 --> 01:46:51,300
boosting. I clearly I give

1771
01:46:51,300 --> 01:46:55,770
up so people need to support us
with more so that because Dave

1772
01:46:55,770 --> 01:46:59,970
is clearly funding the entire
network since day

1773
01:46:59,970 --> 01:47:02,880
one. I might. Yes. I mean days
money. i

1774
01:47:03,240 --> 01:47:06,360
It's it does feel like that a
little bit and I'm a bit

1775
01:47:06,360 --> 01:47:09,690
concerned about you. Do we need
to have a booster vention?

1776
01:47:11,460 --> 01:47:14,700
Booster Vinted must have
downregulated

1777
01:47:14,730 --> 01:47:17,310
Oh, you mean Melissa beat you
over the head and said what?

1778
01:47:18,060 --> 01:47:19,680
What are all these charges?

1779
01:47:20,760 --> 01:47:22,890
I prefer to say that I did it to
myself.

1780
01:47:26,430 --> 01:47:30,660
To you David asked me said how
many posts? Do you really said?

1781
01:47:32,280 --> 01:47:35,910
Circular baby? I don't know.
Moving around internet tokens?

1782
01:47:35,910 --> 01:47:39,330
Yes, exactly. It's internet
money. Exactly.

1783
01:47:40,050 --> 01:47:45,240
Mike Caden, he have red circle
centers. 2222. Sets road ducks.

1784
01:47:45,600 --> 01:47:49,950
He says. He says premature
ejaculation.

1785
01:47:56,070 --> 01:47:57,090
That's hilarious.

1786
01:47:57,300 --> 01:48:00,840
And Niall sin is 101 He says
great comment.

1787
01:48:01,560 --> 01:48:04,860
Okay. All right. Thank you. We
aim to please.

1788
01:48:05,190 --> 01:48:09,090
Yes, yes. I thought it was too.
Yeah. Ron pleau. Now, can

1789
01:48:09,090 --> 01:48:12,540
I just say something? If we if
we ever implement the timelines,

1790
01:48:13,110 --> 01:48:16,980
then you know, you could in your
interface, click on that. And it

1791
01:48:16,980 --> 01:48:19,800
would say, Oh, this is exactly
where he boosted grabbed and we

1792
01:48:19,800 --> 01:48:21,390
would know what he was talking
about.

1793
01:48:21,930 --> 01:48:25,770
We'll see we had this good. We
had such an excellent idea of

1794
01:48:25,770 --> 01:48:28,920
putting a link to this timestamp
where you can just click on it

1795
01:48:28,920 --> 01:48:32,400
and listen to it. Does that
work? It does it absolutely does

1796
01:48:32,400 --> 01:48:36,300
work. Well. I'm too lazy to
actually do it. So

1797
01:48:36,570 --> 01:48:37,980
is that in heli pad two?

1798
01:48:40,170 --> 01:48:43,200
Oh, no, it's not exposed in
Hello, Pat. That's a good idea.

1799
01:48:43,230 --> 01:48:44,190
I should expose that.

1800
01:48:45,720 --> 01:48:52,260
expose it Dave Jones exposure?
Yeah. As That's called being a

1801
01:48:52,260 --> 01:48:55,620
podcaster this is this is the
Dave That's the podcaster who is

1802
01:48:55,650 --> 01:48:57,210
a good podcaster

1803
01:48:57,960 --> 01:49:03,540
Ron ploof send us 211,200 sang

1804
01:49:04,560 --> 01:49:07,260
Holy moly. I'm gonna roll out
the big baller for a

1805
01:49:08,340 --> 01:49:12,120
shot Carla 20 blades on I am
Paula.

1806
01:49:12,780 --> 01:49:18,720
Boost. A hunt this a 100x Rush
boost as a Thanks to Dave for

1807
01:49:18,720 --> 01:49:19,860
helping me here my first

1808
01:49:19,860 --> 01:49:21,570
few Oh,

1809
01:49:22,710 --> 01:49:26,100
griddle cakes radio podcast
exploring the lost art of audio

1810
01:49:26,100 --> 01:49:28,200
storytelling since 2005.

1811
01:49:28,590 --> 01:49:30,930
griddle cakes lost audio podcast

1812
01:49:31,260 --> 01:49:33,390
griddle cakes radio podcast.

1813
01:49:33,420 --> 01:49:36,090
Oh, I know griddle cakes. I
think they've been around

1814
01:49:36,090 --> 01:49:36,810
forever.

1815
01:49:37,200 --> 01:49:38,760
Ron please do you know rounds.

1816
01:49:39,360 --> 01:49:44,070
I know his his brother David.
David. Okay. Luke wasn't a

1817
01:49:44,070 --> 01:49:49,950
speechwriter for Obama. No. He's
a different guy. Great. Okay.

1818
01:49:49,980 --> 01:49:51,780
Cakes radio. Sounds very
familiar to me.

1819
01:49:52,530 --> 01:49:54,300
Thank you for the Yes, thank

1820
01:49:54,300 --> 01:49:56,670
you so much for that support.
Killer.

1821
01:49:57,570 --> 01:50:01,020
Floridian slips and it's 5000
SATs. To found and then he says

1822
01:50:01,260 --> 01:50:03,810
thanks for assisting on podcast
index dot social Dave

1823
01:50:03,870 --> 01:50:06,660
boost yo, boost boost boost
boost

1824
01:50:06,930 --> 01:50:14,190
boost see three more. Nicholas
bhuntar been I'm going to this

1825
01:50:14,190 --> 01:50:16,170
get a little dots over the top
of the use I'm going to say

1826
01:50:16,170 --> 01:50:20,280
booster booster. Nicholas
bhuntar PS bar is gone gunta

1827
01:50:21,120 --> 01:50:24,420
1000 SATs through breeze and he
says boosting for podcasting 2.0

1828
01:50:24,420 --> 01:50:24,930
heart.

1829
01:50:25,290 --> 01:50:28,020
Ah fat streaming back atcha

1830
01:50:28,170 --> 01:50:33,720
We love you too. Sir Doug sent
4400 sets through fountain he

1831
01:50:33,720 --> 01:50:34,500
says boobs

1832
01:50:34,530 --> 01:50:35,160
yo yo

1833
01:50:37,980 --> 01:50:41,070
Yep, we're at the end of the end
of the day louder. The comics

1834
01:50:41,070 --> 01:50:45,930
through blogger donation, comic
strip blogger 10,033 sets

1835
01:50:46,080 --> 01:50:48,960
through pod friend and he says
Hi, Dave and Adam, thank you for

1836
01:50:48,960 --> 01:50:51,300
your service to podcasting. And
if your listeners want to hear

1837
01:50:51,300 --> 01:50:54,450
latest news about artificial
intelligence, they're invited to

1838
01:50:54,450 --> 01:50:58,050
listen to AI cooking. bi weekly
podcast spoken by Gregory

1839
01:50:58,050 --> 01:51:00,150
William Forsythe Foreman from
kin, yo.

1840
01:51:00,930 --> 01:51:03,510
Yo. Comics your blogger

1841
01:51:04,260 --> 01:51:10,950
gets monthly. Cameron rose give
us $25 Jeremy new $5 pod verse

1842
01:51:10,980 --> 01:51:17,670
$50. Mitch Downey $10 Chris
Chara Barak $10, Terry Keller,

1843
01:51:17,670 --> 01:51:23,580
$5. And I added this little bit
in here that I wanted to say if

1844
01:51:23,580 --> 01:51:29,400
you have any ability to donate
anything extra, you know, it

1845
01:51:29,400 --> 01:51:33,180
would be good to go in and
donate to things like in a tube

1846
01:51:34,050 --> 01:51:37,080
that Alex is running out of his
own pocket and podcast

1847
01:51:37,080 --> 01:51:41,070
social.org from John running it
stuff out of his own pocket.

1848
01:51:42,300 --> 01:51:46,980
It's just I would I would like
to just make it make it clear

1849
01:51:46,980 --> 01:51:48,750
that there's a lot of people
will pay for stuff out of their

1850
01:51:48,750 --> 01:51:52,230
own pocket. And it's always good
to support them. You know, if

1851
01:51:52,230 --> 01:51:54,870
you can what is it?

1852
01:51:54,900 --> 01:51:56,730
What are they? What a passionate
plea Dave?

1853
01:51:57,270 --> 01:52:03,270
Thank you. It's Chuck Chara
Barak. Yes. Yes, sorry. I have

1854
01:52:03,270 --> 01:52:09,480
to say, go for it. Nice.

1855
01:52:10,080 --> 01:52:12,750
I considered muting it but I'm
like now why let a good sneeze

1856
01:52:12,750 --> 01:52:13,560
go to waste.

1857
01:52:13,830 --> 01:52:16,230
You had a you had a nice new
microphone and you just

1858
01:52:16,230 --> 01:52:16,650
destroyed

1859
01:52:18,060 --> 01:52:22,680
John Spurlock man, you are a gem
and and we're very, very

1860
01:52:22,710 --> 01:52:25,470
fortunate and blessed to have
you inside the group. And I

1861
01:52:25,470 --> 01:52:29,430
really, really enjoyed sparring
with Spurlock a bit today.

1862
01:52:29,610 --> 01:52:34,500
sparring with Spurlock. I think
it's exciting. I think. I think

1863
01:52:34,920 --> 01:52:36,840
one of the cool things about
this community is that

1864
01:52:36,840 --> 01:52:39,390
everyone's I think what Dave
said a while ago is that we're

1865
01:52:39,390 --> 01:52:41,340
here because we're passionate
about it, right? We're here

1866
01:52:41,340 --> 01:52:46,200
because we have to be here. No
one's paying us to be here. So I

1867
01:52:46,200 --> 01:52:48,240
think it's gonna be really
interesting to see what happens

1868
01:52:48,240 --> 01:52:52,050
over the next few months. And,
you know, I, I appreciate all

1869
01:52:52,050 --> 01:52:53,760
you guys do and keep going.

1870
01:52:53,970 --> 01:52:56,670
Yeah. And do you want do you
want to just wrap it up a bit

1871
01:52:56,670 --> 01:53:01,650
with your podcast social.org,
just so we can send

1872
01:53:01,650 --> 01:53:04,020
people there when listening to
this podcast is probably already

1873
01:53:04,020 --> 01:53:06,360
familiar. But I would, I would
basically say the podcast

1874
01:53:06,360 --> 01:53:10,590
social.org site is just a quick
overview site for everyone in

1875
01:53:10,590 --> 01:53:13,650
the podcasting ecosystem to
learn about the new tag, now

1876
01:53:13,650 --> 01:53:16,200
that it's going to be in the
next phase. So now's the time to

1877
01:53:16,200 --> 01:53:20,160
get hyped and excited about it.
And then for app developers,

1878
01:53:20,160 --> 01:53:23,100
there's a few components. So if
you want to read activity pub

1879
01:53:23,100 --> 01:53:27,000
comments, there's an NPM package
called thread cap out there

1880
01:53:27,000 --> 01:53:30,270
that's free to use open source.
And then if you're an app that

1881
01:53:30,270 --> 01:53:32,280
wants to do that nice
integration that we're talking

1882
01:53:32,280 --> 01:53:35,550
about from the mobile app,
you're going to need to have a

1883
01:53:35,550 --> 01:53:39,120
server. So I have an open source
server component that basically

1884
01:53:39,120 --> 01:53:42,930
you can use to do that. And
that's your mini mini. Yeah,

1885
01:53:43,230 --> 01:53:43,590
yep.

1886
01:53:44,760 --> 01:53:48,120
Can you John, can you send me an
hour? We talked about this on

1887
01:53:48,120 --> 01:53:52,050
the dev meeting, but I think
Martin may have forgotten. Can

1888
01:53:52,050 --> 01:53:56,580
you send me like a like a sample
output a thread cap? Because I'm

1889
01:53:56,850 --> 01:53:59,820
importing it to PHP. And I
really just Can I ask

1890
01:53:59,850 --> 01:54:01,260
what thread cap is

1891
01:54:02,490 --> 01:54:05,760
it's just a way to take a
snapshot of an activity pub

1892
01:54:05,910 --> 01:54:08,790
Convo, right. So you like you
take the route comment, and then

1893
01:54:08,790 --> 01:54:11,340
some program needs to go and
enumerate Oh, what are the

1894
01:54:11,340 --> 01:54:14,790
replies? What are the replies to
that reply? You get it and then

1895
01:54:14,790 --> 01:54:18,330
so and then at the end, you're
just left with like a threaded,

1896
01:54:18,630 --> 01:54:22,020
Jason object, basically. So it
makes people that are used to

1897
01:54:22,020 --> 01:54:25,050
just dealing with like a single
json file hopefully makes a

1898
01:54:25,050 --> 01:54:28,380
little easier to integrate. Its
activity Pub is not that hard to

1899
01:54:28,380 --> 01:54:32,430
use. But it's a little messy
because like RSS, like everyone

1900
01:54:32,430 --> 01:54:35,400
does things a little
differently. So REDCap kind of

1901
01:54:36,120 --> 01:54:38,010
papers over some of that stuff.
Yeah.

1902
01:54:38,490 --> 01:54:41,790
Can you send me a sample output
though of like, just just what

1903
01:54:41,790 --> 01:54:44,310
it looks like? The thing is
gonna be easier than trying to

1904
01:54:44,310 --> 01:54:47,160
go line by line through your
code and intro to sort of poured

1905
01:54:47,160 --> 01:54:50,100
it and then FF like I just aim
for a target of what the outputs

1906
01:54:50,100 --> 01:54:50,970
supposed to look like.

1907
01:54:51,930 --> 01:54:55,980
Oh, yeah, sure. Sure. Okay. Is
not good enough.

1908
01:54:57,300 --> 01:55:02,880
I would not say it that way.
What I would say is that I'm

1909
01:55:02,880 --> 01:55:04,740
terrible at JavaScript, that
would be the way I would

1910
01:55:04,740 --> 01:55:05,190
describe it.

1911
01:55:05,340 --> 01:55:07,920
Yeah, I would say things are
very early days on this, right.

1912
01:55:07,920 --> 01:55:10,770
So everyone, that's anyone that
has any feedback on any of the

1913
01:55:10,770 --> 01:55:13,830
projects that I'm doing or
anything like that. And I think

1914
01:55:13,860 --> 01:55:17,700
gear may actually was going back
and forth pod station, is doing

1915
01:55:17,970 --> 01:55:21,480
yeoman's work of like filing
bugs against Yes. And getting

1916
01:55:21,480 --> 01:55:24,270
some of those fixed, oh,
dynamite. So he's been doing

1917
01:55:24,270 --> 01:55:26,250
really good work. So we've been
I'll definitely integrate

1918
01:55:26,250 --> 01:55:30,240
whatever he's, he's finding into
the mini pub documentation,

1919
01:55:30,240 --> 01:55:32,970
actually have some example if
people want to not use mini pub,

1920
01:55:32,970 --> 01:55:35,730
but just want to do it
themselves. I even have some

1921
01:55:35,730 --> 01:55:38,490
documents and like, here's what
Mastodon comes back with. Here's

1922
01:55:38,490 --> 01:55:42,150
what Pleroma comes back with
acid that might be of interest

1923
01:55:42,150 --> 01:55:44,010
to developers that are kind of
like me and want to do

1924
01:55:44,010 --> 01:55:44,880
everything themselves.

1925
01:55:45,360 --> 01:55:47,460
Yeah, sure. Seems like party
code.

1926
01:55:47,520 --> 01:55:52,050
Sure. Seems like activity Pub is
is a winner. The stuff we're

1927
01:55:52,050 --> 01:55:54,450
doing with it? I mean, it just
seems like it's a big thing

1928
01:55:54,450 --> 01:55:57,570
overall, for decentralized,
whatever, whatever it is, the

1929
01:55:57,570 --> 01:55:58,980
whole world is kind of building.

1930
01:55:59,339 --> 01:56:04,349
Yeah, it just we just need tools
like thread cap where, where

1931
01:56:04,349 --> 01:56:08,249
people like James can just have
a tool to output this stuff into

1932
01:56:08,249 --> 01:56:10,949
a usable format on the side and
not have to do all the guts

1933
01:56:10,949 --> 01:56:14,639
implementation of activity pub,
that, that we need the next we

1934
01:56:14,639 --> 01:56:19,319
need a next layer up, things
like that. Yeah, because that's

1935
01:56:19,529 --> 01:56:22,469
one of the reasons I'm trying to
do the red cap into PHP is

1936
01:56:22,469 --> 01:56:26,129
because we're just need more of
those layers

1937
01:56:26,520 --> 01:56:29,040
of useful for a pod friend, I
think too, right. I think his

1938
01:56:29,040 --> 01:56:30,900
back end and thinks of you. So
yeah, thanks.

1939
01:56:31,620 --> 01:56:34,530
Thanks. Thanks to all of our
supporters with your time your

1940
01:56:34,530 --> 01:56:38,070
talent, your treasure, thanks to
well everyone who supported

1941
01:56:38,070 --> 01:56:42,780
this. Steven B. Thank you very
much for your guidance. Alex

1942
01:56:42,780 --> 01:56:46,890
gates is hanging out in the in
the chat room. Who else is in

1943
01:56:46,890 --> 01:56:51,480
there though? Chad F. Yeah. It's
our cast, sir. bemrose making

1944
01:56:51,480 --> 01:56:53,730
sure we don't screw up the chat.
Appreciate that.

1945
01:56:53,790 --> 01:56:55,080
Steven bass Spencer.

1946
01:56:57,270 --> 01:57:01,410
And I'll have the value blocks
stuffs sorted for for the next

1947
01:57:01,410 --> 01:57:04,860
episode. Thank you both for your
for your patience with me and

1948
01:57:04,860 --> 01:57:11,970
for your passion. Yeah. That's
the passion I'm talking about

1949
01:57:11,970 --> 01:57:16,230
right there. Thanks, guys. Have
a great weekend. All right.

1950
01:57:17,400 --> 01:57:20,970
That's it for podcasting. 2.0
Episode number 77. We back with

1951
01:57:20,970 --> 01:57:23,910
another board meeting next week.
See you then. Take care

1952
01:57:23,910 --> 01:57:24,990
everybody have a good weekend?

1953
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podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast

1954
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