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Podcasting 2.0 for December 19th, 2025.

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Episode 245, Grow Your Show.

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Well, hello everybody.

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Christmas is almost here.

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Welcome to the official board meeting of Podcasting

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2.0. This is it.

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It's where it all goes down, where it

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all happens.

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We are the place, and we are also

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the only boardroom that isn't mentioned in the

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Epstein files.

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I'm Adam Curry, right here in the heart

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of the Texas Hill Country, and in Alabama,

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the man who does more with your API

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than the postman.

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Say hello to my friend on the other

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end, the one, the only, Mr. Dave Jones.

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So, if a podcast goes live, and there's

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nobody in the boardroom, is it still a

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podcast?

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No, then it's a YouTube video.

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That's right, yeah.

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I mean, there's Daniel and Eric, PP.

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Yeah, the two, and now, luckily they're on

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the compensation committee, so it's good that they're

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here.

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Yeah, we still get our Christmas bonus.

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You want to have the comp committee guys

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always attending the board meetings.

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Yeah, it's, I guess everyone's traveling, or getting

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ready, or who knows?

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Party planning committee, where are they?

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I don't see them around.

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Party planning committee.

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Or the committee, excuse me, it's either the

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party planning committee, or the competing committee to

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plan parties.

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Either one of those.

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Yeah, it's super lonely in here.

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Yeah, yeah, well, you know, the power had

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their end of year.

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I completely forgot, kind of slipped my mind

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to send in my predictions for 2026.

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I think it slipped my mind because I

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don't like doing them.

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It slipped your mind because you weren't going

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to do it.

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Yeah, yeah, that's kind of it.

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What was your- I did it for

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both of us.

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Thank you.

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What was your highlight from 2025, and your

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prediction for 2026?

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I mean, I didn't have a highlight.

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I was like, for 2025, I was just

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talking about, it felt like the major players

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in the industry had finally just accepted the

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namespace as just, it's a thing that's going

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to be here.

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Yeah, I agree.

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You know, I feel like 2025 was just

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sort of like a, okay, this thing's been

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around a long time.

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It's not going anywhere.

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Let's just, let's start the adoption phase.

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And then also, you know, Apple with the

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chapters and stuff like that was cool.

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But, you know, and then my low point

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of 2025 was Todd's death, you know, that

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just sucked.

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But 2026, and this leads to my work

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this week, was, I just think that 2026

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is going to see an explosion of AI

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slop that we're all going to have to

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deal with.

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Well, did you see my recommendation about this

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on podcastindex.social?

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No, thanks.

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I did, but I can't, I'm trying to

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remember what you said.

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Thanks for reading my post.

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It was days ago.

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It was days ago.

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I read it.

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Yes, I read it.

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No, I said, you know, instead of this

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being a problem, why don't we just block

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as much as we can and every single

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app that uses the index should market itself

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as slop-free.

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Yeah, I think that's great.

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I think you turn it into a benefit.

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You know, if you want to listen to

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AI slop, go use Spotify or whatever.

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I really feel like it's an opportunity.

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No.

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It's a threat to the infrastructure of podcasting.

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Yeah, I talked to Dvorak about it actually

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on the show.

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And he said, this is spam.

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You should just block it.

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Block it all, block it all, said the

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man who can't even email because he blocks

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everybody.

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You block many.

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I don't block anybody.

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Well, you don't block them on purpose, but

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you block email.

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And this is similar.

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This is actually a similar thing.

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I don't block any email.

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What are you talking about?

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Your email filters are so strict.

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Yeah.

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If people don't have the email that lives

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up to email hygiene standards, they get blocked.

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Oh, then you can F off.

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Yeah.

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You mean like DMark and Sakspan and Schmickschmock

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and all that stuff?

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Sure, yeah.

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Yeah, well, that's what email should be.

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I have to.

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AdamMcCurry.com is so widely dispersed.

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It's just insane.

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I see that as similar to the problem

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that we're facing with AI Slob.

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Yeah.

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We're not going to block any particular person,

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but we're going to have to jiggle the

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knobs and like jiggle the knobs, move the

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sliders around to make the filters so tight

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that if you have garbage content, spam slop

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content, that it just can't get in.

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I think that's what we're going to have

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to do.

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I don't know how you do that.

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I mean, I think just- I don't

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either.

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I think just, well, it has to be

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a community-led project.

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And I like just calling it TTS.

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I like that a lot.

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You know, text to speech, you're out.

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Just know.

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That's it.

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Um, well, yeah.

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Yeah.

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If you can't talk, then you don't deserve

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to be here.

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Yeah.

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You're not in full agreement because this is

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the Dave Jones version of I don't agree

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by saying, yeah, yeah.

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No, no, no, no, I promise.

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It's not that I don't agree.

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It's, I'm trying to, you know, like this

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kind of thing requires like precision of language.

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I'm trying to, in my mind, I'm trying

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to figure out how to like define what

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we're doing.

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Here's the analog.

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So ever since everyone told me that YouTube

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is podcasting, I paid a little bit more

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attention.

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And the first thing that is very obvious

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and is kind of annoying and makes it

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difficult is every single image is AI generated.

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Every single one that most of them have,

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you know, some kind of outrageous look, you

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know, or some click bait type of you

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won't believe, or this is awesome game changer,

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you know, all of that.

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And so it already makes it kind of

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difficult to predetermine what I think is going

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to be of any interest in a particular

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topic.

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And of course the algo has brought things

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into my purview, but the amount of slop

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that, you know, you wind up listening to

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five minutes listening slash watching until you realize,

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oh, okay, nothing's ever going to come.

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It's just going to be these images rotating

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stock images.

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And that happens a lot.

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It's a huge time waster.

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And so that's the kind of stuff that

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I think we should try to avoid because

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that to me, that's just YouTube spam.

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Yeah, yeah, I've had the same experience.

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You get about, I don't know, four or

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five minutes into a 17 minute video.

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Yeah, which you think is good.

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It's like, oh, only 17 minutes.

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Yeah, this is right on topic.

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And it never goes anywhere.

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Yeah, it's just endless reiterations of the same

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thing.

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The same talk, like the same speaking over

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and over and over.

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And then you start to notice these images

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look a little off.

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Well, it becomes obvious.

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Like I, you know, I'm a Ford truck

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nut.

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So I was watching some video a few

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weeks ago about the history of the Ford

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FE engine.

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And it starts showing pictures like about three

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or four minutes into it.

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It starts showing pictures of like- No,

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it was engines that are like, they have

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like seven drives, seven camshafts in them.

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I'm like, wait a second.

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This is not, this is impossible.

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What is going on?

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Yeah, this thing looks like something from, you

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know, the Voyager satellite or something.

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But it's just, yeah, I think that kind

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of, the threat to podcasting infrastructure is that

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we just get overwhelmed.

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And it's not just us.

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Like, that's the point I was trying to

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make.

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No, everybody's bumping into this.

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For yeah, Apple is, their directory is full

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of this garbage too.

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And because I see when they're like, so

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the new endpoint, it's not new.

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That's a lie.

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It's an old endpoint, but I just took

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the authorization off of it so that you

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don't have to have an API token to

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hit it.

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And it just, and I beefed up the

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amount of details it returns about the feed.

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So this is just simply listing the last

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X number of feeds that the podcast index

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has ingested.

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So you can hit this API endpoint and

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it will give you, based on whatever criteria

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you request.

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So if you just give it a maximum

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number, it'll just give you the last up

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to 25,000.

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It'll give you the last X number of

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podcasts that we ingested.

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Oh, okay.

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In chronological order.

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How about this?

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Should we have a feedback loop that everybody

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can access and not, I mean, not open

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endpoint, but something that apps could put in

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to their interface that says this is slop

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and then just hit it.

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Cause I don't mind reviewing that.

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In fact, I'd probably enjoy it.

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Yeah.

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I think that's exactly where this needs to

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go is we have a user reportable through

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some mechanism and all the podcast apps could

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like.

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Yeah, it can incorporate.

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And as soon as something gets flagged or

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whatever as AI slop or whatever it is,

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then they can push that flag upstream and

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then we can have people that look at

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it or whatever.

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How about this?

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I don't know.

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How about this?

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Adding another endpoint, open endpoint for other directories

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or other indexes, et cetera, to access to

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see what we have flagged as slop so

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that they can then take that and, you

276
00:11:00,070 --> 00:11:01,430
know, Apple, do you hear me?

277
00:11:01,630 --> 00:11:02,630
You'll be happy with it.

278
00:11:03,490 --> 00:11:05,050
I wonder what their policy, I'd love to

279
00:11:05,050 --> 00:11:06,610
know what their policy is about that.

280
00:11:06,690 --> 00:11:08,510
I mean, I'm sure they're having these conversations.

281
00:11:09,990 --> 00:11:10,430
Oh, I'm sure.

282
00:11:10,890 --> 00:11:12,610
I mean, I know they are because they're

283
00:11:12,610 --> 00:11:14,950
the ones, you know, they were asking early

284
00:11:14,950 --> 00:11:18,630
on for an AI tag that would be

285
00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:18,990
labeled.

286
00:11:19,890 --> 00:11:21,550
Yeah, but that's never gonna work.

287
00:11:22,590 --> 00:11:24,350
It's like the explicit tag.

288
00:11:25,810 --> 00:11:32,690
Well, so this, this is, the thing that

289
00:11:32,690 --> 00:11:36,250
bothers me about this model though is that

290
00:11:37,620 --> 00:11:40,300
it's always the abuse.

291
00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:42,940
Well, yeah, you have a ban hammer.

292
00:11:42,940 --> 00:11:44,940
It can be used anywhere on everything at

293
00:11:44,940 --> 00:11:45,400
any time.

294
00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,400
But if ultimately, let's just say two trusted

295
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,680
people, for instance, the judges of the index

296
00:11:51,680 --> 00:11:52,240
awards.

297
00:11:54,580 --> 00:11:55,620
Oh, those guys.

298
00:11:55,740 --> 00:11:56,280
Those guys.

299
00:11:56,380 --> 00:11:57,920
If they were the guys who were checking

300
00:11:57,920 --> 00:11:59,520
it, I mean, how much could it be?

301
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:01,640
I mean, first of all, we're gonna shut

302
00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:02,860
off Inception.

303
00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:04,100
Just shut it off.

304
00:12:05,140 --> 00:12:06,060
Just kick them out.

305
00:12:06,820 --> 00:12:07,100
Yeah, yeah.

306
00:12:07,140 --> 00:12:09,680
I mean, they themselves admit, we don't listen

307
00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:10,100
to it.

308
00:12:11,260 --> 00:12:13,500
And, you know, and the thing that is

309
00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:16,440
bothersome about that is you check one of

310
00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:17,840
those shows and you get two ads.

311
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:19,240
That just pisses me off.

312
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:21,620
Yeah, it's the first thing you hear.

313
00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,180
So that to me is almost the definition

314
00:12:24,180 --> 00:12:24,800
of spam.

315
00:12:26,220 --> 00:12:30,860
Man, I got a good call this week.

316
00:12:31,540 --> 00:12:35,020
A good phishing, hacking call.

317
00:12:35,980 --> 00:12:37,640
Oh, you got another one of these similar

318
00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:38,760
to the sheriff's office?

319
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,980
Yes, this is just as sophisticated.

320
00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,060
So first- By the way, a person

321
00:12:44,060 --> 00:12:46,320
I work with in my day job, they

322
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,160
got this exact, they got a clone of

323
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,180
the exact call you got from the sheriff's

324
00:12:51,180 --> 00:12:51,280
office.

325
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:52,740
Yeah, a lot of people have mentioned that

326
00:12:52,740 --> 00:12:52,940
to me.

327
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,640
Some of you even said, if you hadn't

328
00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,860
mentioned that, I might've fallen for it.

329
00:12:57,420 --> 00:12:57,760
Oh, yeah.

330
00:12:58,700 --> 00:13:02,000
So this one, my phone rings and it

331
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:03,380
says Google in the display.

332
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,860
Now, right away, I know this can't be

333
00:13:05,860 --> 00:13:08,260
real because not only does Google never call

334
00:13:08,260 --> 00:13:09,680
anybody, you can't call them.

335
00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:11,220
So this is, I know this is a

336
00:13:11,220 --> 00:13:12,160
scam, but I'm interested.

337
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:13,800
I pick it up.

338
00:13:13,900 --> 00:13:15,080
It's an automated system.

339
00:13:15,820 --> 00:13:18,120
Someone in Toronto is trying to access your

340
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:18,580
account.

341
00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:20,780
A representative from, oh, if this was you,

342
00:13:21,260 --> 00:13:22,180
hang up.

343
00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,340
If it wasn't you, press one and a

344
00:13:24,340 --> 00:13:25,540
representative will call you.

345
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:26,580
So I press one.

346
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:28,860
About a minute later, get a call.

347
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:29,780
Same area code.

348
00:13:29,860 --> 00:13:32,200
Doesn't say Google, but it has 650 and

349
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:33,640
I know that's the right area code.

350
00:13:34,460 --> 00:13:36,780
Very well-spoken young woman.

351
00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:38,360
Very well-spoken.

352
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,420
And with that, I mean, no hint of

353
00:13:40,420 --> 00:13:41,880
any Asian accent.

354
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:44,620
Sounded very professional.

355
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,340
Wasn't flustering her words or anything.

356
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:49,700
And went through this whole thing.

357
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,260
And, you know, this is your phone number.

358
00:13:52,420 --> 00:13:54,420
This is adamercurry.com, yes.

359
00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,200
Someone is trying to open a ticket to

360
00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,480
change the phone number that goes with your

361
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,500
Gmail account, with your Google account.

362
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:02,620
So, huh, okay.

363
00:14:03,940 --> 00:14:05,880
Says, and so she went through a couple

364
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:07,100
of questions, which are really good.

365
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:08,200
So yeah, that's me, that's me.

366
00:14:09,980 --> 00:14:16,540
And then she says, okay, so we've determined

367
00:14:16,540 --> 00:14:19,420
this is you or that this Toronto is

368
00:14:19,420 --> 00:14:19,960
not you.

369
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,440
So this person has opened up a ticket,

370
00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:23,860
so you need to close the ticket.

371
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,680
And once you, as the owner of this

372
00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,920
account, close the ticket, then it goes away.

373
00:14:29,980 --> 00:14:31,380
I'm like, okay, that sounds reasonable.

374
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,040
Yes, could you go to this website?

375
00:14:34,140 --> 00:14:36,500
Now I'm like, okay, let's see how this

376
00:14:36,500 --> 00:14:36,800
goes.

377
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:43,820
Sites.google.com slash close dash ticket.

378
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,960
I'm like, well, that's just public, excuse me,

379
00:14:48,020 --> 00:14:49,820
websites that anyone can set up.

380
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:51,300
She says, oh, but hold on a second.

381
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,800
We'll send you an email with a code

382
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:55,380
to prove it.

383
00:14:55,500 --> 00:14:57,760
And bloop, in comes a code, looks official

384
00:14:57,760 --> 00:14:58,440
from Google.

385
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,800
No reply at google.com, this is your

386
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:01,200
code.

387
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:02,300
Say, okay.

388
00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:04,060
And it came into your email.

389
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:05,360
Yes, I said, all right.

390
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,100
So I go to the web, so I

391
00:15:07,100 --> 00:15:09,220
hit the link to the website and she

392
00:15:09,220 --> 00:15:10,720
says, okay, do you see the place to

393
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:11,280
close the ticket?

394
00:15:11,380 --> 00:15:12,540
I said, no, it's asking me to log

395
00:15:12,540 --> 00:15:12,660
in.

396
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:13,620
Yeah, could you just log in?

397
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:14,700
I'm like, no, I don't think I wanna

398
00:15:14,700 --> 00:15:15,300
do that.

399
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,440
Because if you were nefarious, and she's calm,

400
00:15:19,620 --> 00:15:20,780
man, she's sticking with it.

401
00:15:21,220 --> 00:15:22,660
And she keeps on going.

402
00:15:23,260 --> 00:15:28,740
And I said, well, what email address do

403
00:15:28,740 --> 00:15:29,840
you have for me at Google?

404
00:15:29,940 --> 00:15:31,400
She says, well, adammccurry.com.

405
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:32,260
I said, no.

406
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,820
She says, yes, adammccurry.com is linked to

407
00:15:35,820 --> 00:15:37,200
your Gmail account.

408
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:37,720
I said, no.

409
00:15:37,940 --> 00:15:38,720
No, it's not.

410
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:40,460
And she says, yes, it is.

411
00:15:40,460 --> 00:15:42,180
It's hosted on Google Workspace.

412
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,460
I have the MX record right here.

413
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,320
I thought, wow, that's sophisticated.

414
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,300
I said, I have the MX record here

415
00:15:50,300 --> 00:15:50,600
too.

416
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:51,440
It's not.

417
00:15:52,660 --> 00:15:55,620
And she eventually wound up just hanging up.

418
00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,080
But I can totally see where, because I

419
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,420
think Brian of London posted an Apple version

420
00:16:02,420 --> 00:16:04,280
of this, and it's sophisticated.

421
00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,780
The confidence part of the con game is

422
00:16:07,780 --> 00:16:08,120
good.

423
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,480
And before you know it, you've given them

424
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,440
your two-factor, your second-factor authorization code,

425
00:16:13,540 --> 00:16:14,660
and boom, you're done.

426
00:16:14,900 --> 00:16:17,160
I mean, the internet sucks.

427
00:16:17,260 --> 00:16:18,400
It just sucks balls.

428
00:16:18,540 --> 00:16:19,580
The whole thing- It's terrible.

429
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:20,640
It was a terrible mistake.

430
00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:21,500
It really was.

431
00:16:22,660 --> 00:16:24,040
It was a huge mistake.

432
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,320
And it's just no way everybody can stay

433
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:29,480
safe in this environment.

434
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:30,860
Just no way.

435
00:16:31,900 --> 00:16:34,420
Unless your AI somehow does it for you,

436
00:16:34,460 --> 00:16:35,580
but that's iffy.

437
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,420
Well, that's, I'm glad you said that, because

438
00:16:40,420 --> 00:16:42,500
I need to pass that information along to

439
00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:42,960
other people.

440
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,980
You got to tell everybody, especially older people.

441
00:16:46,860 --> 00:16:51,620
Oh yeah, because that's, unfortunately, that's the primary

442
00:16:51,620 --> 00:16:52,060
target.

443
00:16:52,060 --> 00:16:53,280
Yep, yep.

444
00:16:53,620 --> 00:16:54,800
Hey, should we bring in our guests for

445
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:55,600
today, Dave?

446
00:16:55,700 --> 00:16:59,100
Because we have quite a celebrity with us

447
00:16:59,100 --> 00:16:59,420
today.

448
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:01,620
Ladies and gentlemen of the boardroom, those of

449
00:17:01,620 --> 00:17:03,960
you who are here, please welcome the brains

450
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,240
behind many of the modern podcasting formats, protocols,

451
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:08,839
and magic moments.

452
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,400
Say hello to Mr. Alex Gates, everybody.

453
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:13,760
Hello, hello, hello.

454
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,140
Well, hello, hello.

455
00:17:15,140 --> 00:17:17,300
Hello, hello, Alex with the CK Gates.

456
00:17:17,380 --> 00:17:18,060
How you doing, brother?

457
00:17:18,940 --> 00:17:19,619
I'm very well.

458
00:17:19,660 --> 00:17:20,160
How are you, Adam?

459
00:17:20,339 --> 00:17:21,040
I'm good.

460
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:21,140
I'm good.

461
00:17:21,140 --> 00:17:22,220
It's good to hear your voice.

462
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:23,240
It's been a hot minute.

463
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:24,740
It's been at least a year, maybe even

464
00:17:24,740 --> 00:17:25,140
longer.

465
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:26,660
I can't remember the last time you were

466
00:17:26,660 --> 00:17:27,740
in the boardroom.

467
00:17:28,820 --> 00:17:31,300
Yeah, I think it was the hashtag discussion

468
00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:32,540
in like 2024 or something.

469
00:17:33,140 --> 00:17:34,720
And how did that wind up?

470
00:17:36,980 --> 00:17:38,560
I mean, we haven't really been focused on

471
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,340
new standards, so I think people just need

472
00:17:41,340 --> 00:17:43,920
to do it and put some adoption.

473
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:44,440
I love that.

474
00:17:44,580 --> 00:17:46,440
Everything we come up with in the boardroom

475
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,980
is usually as a post later on podcasts

476
00:17:48,980 --> 00:17:50,600
and next on social, and Alex says, well,

477
00:17:50,660 --> 00:17:52,820
yeah, I proposed this 18 months ago.

478
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:54,280
You want to take a look at it?

479
00:17:54,580 --> 00:17:56,060
This is how I thought we should do

480
00:17:56,060 --> 00:17:56,460
it, yeah.

481
00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,660
Yeah, yeah, with a link to a lengthy

482
00:17:59,660 --> 00:18:02,620
post from 2020, 2023.

483
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:06,380
So what are we here for today?

484
00:18:06,460 --> 00:18:08,160
Dave, you invited Alex to come on.

485
00:18:08,860 --> 00:18:10,280
I did because we need to talk about,

486
00:18:11,820 --> 00:18:13,040
we need to talk about a couple of

487
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:17,540
things, but primarily the thing we talked about

488
00:18:17,540 --> 00:18:22,720
recently with taking owners, sort of taking some

489
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,520
control of attestation.

490
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:32,800
So whatever, this advantage that Apple Podcast Directory

491
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,740
has where they have the owner of the

492
00:18:35,740 --> 00:18:38,220
podcast is going in there and talking and

493
00:18:38,220 --> 00:18:41,440
confirming that they're the owner and then like

494
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,880
giving authoritative action to the podcast.

495
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,880
Like this is my URL, blah, blah, blah.

496
00:18:49,420 --> 00:18:50,740
You know, and we talked about having an

497
00:18:50,740 --> 00:18:54,680
open version of that, you know, moveyourpodcast.com

498
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,560
or something, that's a terrible name, but we

499
00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:00,980
talked about having a website, a web interface

500
00:19:00,980 --> 00:19:06,240
somewhere where podcasters could go and confirm that

501
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:11,220
their ownership of a podcast feed and-

502
00:19:11,220 --> 00:19:12,860
No, no, no, we discussed it differently.

503
00:19:13,420 --> 00:19:16,860
Ownership of a podcast and then whatever feeds

504
00:19:16,860 --> 00:19:18,140
are associated with it.

505
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:19,500
That's the way I understood it.

506
00:19:20,140 --> 00:19:22,540
So that's, I was careful with my words,

507
00:19:23,180 --> 00:19:27,360
ownership of a podcast feed, because that's what

508
00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:29,300
you, that's the only way we can verify

509
00:19:29,300 --> 00:19:31,740
the ownership and then you could have multiple

510
00:19:31,740 --> 00:19:32,260
feeds.

511
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:32,880
Okay.

512
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:34,720
You know, that you combine.

513
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,880
So, but you're having to verify against a

514
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,940
feed somewhere because that's what you're ultimately doing.

515
00:19:40,940 --> 00:19:44,280
So like, that has to be the backbone

516
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,900
of whatever, or the backbone of whatever we're

517
00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:50,460
going to do here has to start with

518
00:19:50,460 --> 00:19:55,000
some ability to, in an open way, have

519
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,800
an attestation of ownership that can be read

520
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:01,600
by and seen by everyone.

521
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,400
And so Alex has some ideas about pod

522
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:06,740
paying and I was like, yeah, let's talk

523
00:20:06,740 --> 00:20:07,160
about it.

524
00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:09,640
Yeah.

525
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,400
So we need to frame this discussion in

526
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:13,980
a few different aspects.

527
00:20:14,420 --> 00:20:17,420
I really like the framing of a podcast

528
00:20:17,420 --> 00:20:19,700
as an entity.

529
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,540
And then we also need to talk about

530
00:20:23,900 --> 00:20:25,800
how that's going to work in a pod

531
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,940
paying world in both with Hive and without

532
00:20:28,940 --> 00:20:30,040
Hive eventually.

533
00:20:30,780 --> 00:20:33,140
We're talking like maybe even a decade down

534
00:20:33,140 --> 00:20:33,420
the road.

535
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,620
I don't know how long, but so, so

536
00:20:36,620 --> 00:20:41,360
let's talk about, so what do we need

537
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:44,240
to attest in the first place?

538
00:20:45,460 --> 00:20:47,140
So, I mean, it's great that we have

539
00:20:47,140 --> 00:20:50,100
this idea that this podcast is more than

540
00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:51,420
the feed, like it could be a multiple

541
00:20:51,420 --> 00:20:51,940
feeds.

542
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,640
It could even be like technically anyone with

543
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,420
one feed URL, but is also using like

544
00:20:58,420 --> 00:20:59,680
IPFS podcasting.

545
00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:02,800
Those are, if it's the same feed, but

546
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,240
two different URLs, like that's a perfect use

547
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:05,960
case for this.

548
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:09,660
However, we still need to have a way

549
00:21:09,660 --> 00:21:15,800
of identifying the podcast identity as a separate

550
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:16,600
resource.

551
00:21:17,700 --> 00:21:20,880
So maybe it would be if it's moviepodcast

552
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,040
.com or a podcast license or whatever, it

553
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:25,740
still needs to generate some kind of identifier.

554
00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:28,680
So we need to figure out how that's

555
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:29,960
going to work and I don't have the

556
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:30,440
answer right now.

557
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,880
Maybe it's just a different keyword, I don't

558
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:33,180
know.

559
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,240
And then we need to establish a way

560
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,300
to trust that attestation in the first place.

561
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,020
And let's think about how that might work

562
00:21:46,020 --> 00:21:47,940
with Hive.

563
00:21:48,140 --> 00:21:50,380
We might just have a dedicated Hive account

564
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:55,540
from that everyone knows it's from moviepodcast.com.

565
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,760
And maybe we'll start out, we'll say, anyone

566
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,580
posting from this account, we trust them.

567
00:22:01,580 --> 00:22:03,140
We know it's from the podcast index.

568
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,920
That's kind of how the whole system runs

569
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:06,200
today.

570
00:22:06,460 --> 00:22:08,640
Like there's a central source of trust that

571
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,440
kind of bootstraps the whole system.

572
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,060
But down the road, we're going to need

573
00:22:14,060 --> 00:22:16,480
to establish some kind of reputation system.

574
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,820
Like if we move away from Hive, we

575
00:22:19,820 --> 00:22:24,040
need to think about how do we trust,

576
00:22:24,580 --> 00:22:27,580
but verify that all these people posting these

577
00:22:27,580 --> 00:22:30,180
messages saying I've updated my feed, I'm going

578
00:22:30,180 --> 00:22:30,640
live.

579
00:22:31,580 --> 00:22:32,780
I own this feed.

580
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:34,460
You know, we're going to have to think

581
00:22:34,460 --> 00:22:37,800
about some kind of digital reputation system that

582
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,640
bootstraps off of what we're building today.

583
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,240
So that's, yeah, that's kind of where I'm

584
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:48,260
at in the whole thing.

585
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,320
What do you think about like a podcast

586
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:52,840
identifier?

587
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,920
Yeah, like I was thinking that, I had

588
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,760
a couple of thoughts about this recently where

589
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,740
if, I think we fall victim a lot

590
00:23:03,740 --> 00:23:08,180
of times with being as obsessed as we

591
00:23:08,180 --> 00:23:12,540
are, and rightly so, with doing things in

592
00:23:12,540 --> 00:23:15,340
an open way where we don't, or excuse

593
00:23:15,340 --> 00:23:16,680
me, in a decentralized way.

594
00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:22,480
But then if, but we don't always, we

595
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,720
don't necessarily have to like start there.

596
00:23:25,140 --> 00:23:26,900
We can start there.

597
00:23:27,060 --> 00:23:29,740
And as long as we keep those goals

598
00:23:29,740 --> 00:23:32,820
in our mind, we can eventually build, we

599
00:23:32,820 --> 00:23:34,860
can eventually get our system to where it

600
00:23:34,860 --> 00:23:37,280
is that way, but we could start with

601
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,960
a little bit of trust at the beginning.

602
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,900
And so that led me to thinking like

603
00:23:42,900 --> 00:23:46,200
what you were just saying, if there's a,

604
00:23:49,820 --> 00:23:51,200
okay, let me just lay out the model

605
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:51,660
I thought of.

606
00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:56,100
If like, Let's Encrypt is already doing something

607
00:23:56,100 --> 00:23:58,960
that's kind of like this.

608
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,820
If we had a way for, they're using

609
00:24:02,820 --> 00:24:05,900
the ACME protocol, but if we took sort

610
00:24:05,900 --> 00:24:13,520
of like, kind of like a spiritual influence

611
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,720
from them and said, okay, if we're gonna

612
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,700
claim, if we need a claim of ownership

613
00:24:20,700 --> 00:24:25,200
that's verifiable to begin, to sort of begin

614
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:30,620
the process, and we already have systems in

615
00:24:30,620 --> 00:24:33,720
place for feeds that are hosted.

616
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,700
Now, it doesn't work if you self-host,

617
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,620
that has to be like a different, that's

618
00:24:39,620 --> 00:24:42,140
a little bit different, but for the feeds

619
00:24:42,140 --> 00:24:45,200
that are already hosted at companies like Blueberry

620
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,960
and Buzzsprout and RSS.com and Transistor and

621
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:48,500
blah, blah, blah.

622
00:24:49,180 --> 00:24:54,180
Those, they could do the attestation in a

623
00:24:54,180 --> 00:24:56,700
sort of Lips Encrypt back and forth way

624
00:24:56,700 --> 00:24:57,600
with us.

625
00:24:58,420 --> 00:25:00,860
So if somebody said, like, I'm thinking for

626
00:25:00,860 --> 00:25:08,940
instance, if just take for example, Transistor, if

627
00:25:08,940 --> 00:25:13,280
they had a, somewhere on their interface in

628
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,940
their UI, if they had a place for

629
00:25:15,940 --> 00:25:19,040
the podcast creator who's already logged into their

630
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:24,880
dashboard to say, go claim your podcast on

631
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,180
so-and-so, then they could sort of

632
00:25:29,180 --> 00:25:32,940
bounce them over to our system, which would

633
00:25:32,940 --> 00:25:37,360
already be pre-verified where we could do

634
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:38,920
a sort of a handshake back and forth

635
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:39,300
with them.

636
00:25:39,420 --> 00:25:41,120
And then we could sort of pod ping

637
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:44,400
out, here's an, or however that needs to

638
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,940
happen on the second level, pod ping out,

639
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,920
here's the signed identifier or whatever that has,

640
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,740
this is verified by its owner that this

641
00:25:53,740 --> 00:25:55,120
is the owner of this thing.

642
00:25:57,980 --> 00:26:00,360
What does that, I mean, does that, like,

643
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,740
because it doesn't really solve, like we would

644
00:26:02,740 --> 00:26:04,960
have to run to a separate thing where

645
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,600
people could do this process manually, but for

646
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,980
the ones that are, you essentially already have

647
00:26:09,980 --> 00:26:12,820
a validation on the hosting company.

648
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,740
How does that work with the example you

649
00:26:15,740 --> 00:26:18,420
used last week where someone still has an

650
00:26:18,420 --> 00:26:23,040
rss.com account, but then decides that they're

651
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,060
gonna try out Buzzsprout?

652
00:26:26,420 --> 00:26:30,200
So that, that's exactly what I was thinking,

653
00:26:30,260 --> 00:26:33,380
because if you have, they have two accounts,

654
00:26:33,940 --> 00:26:36,780
so they can, if they're verified, if they're

655
00:26:36,780 --> 00:26:41,380
doing a validation, you know, we could, they

656
00:26:41,380 --> 00:26:42,960
can say, oh, once they get, and they

657
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,600
get that thing validated, we could also ask

658
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,340
them, you know, where did you come from?

659
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,600
Like, do you have any, does your podcast

660
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,440
fee, do you have any other feeds for

661
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,280
this podcast that exist anywhere else?

662
00:26:55,820 --> 00:26:58,460
And then they could go through that validation

663
00:26:58,460 --> 00:26:59,560
on those things too.

664
00:26:59,940 --> 00:27:03,120
Like, because they still have, like, especially at

665
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:06,020
the beginning, they still have those accounts there,

666
00:27:06,780 --> 00:27:09,140
and they may be bouncing from one host

667
00:27:09,140 --> 00:27:12,360
to another, but they, we might be able

668
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:15,100
to sort of like have these linkages with

669
00:27:15,100 --> 00:27:20,560
hosting companies where they can help us sort

670
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,160
of consolidate all these feed URLs or all

671
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,400
these kinds of instances of a feed into,

672
00:27:25,540 --> 00:27:27,940
of a podcast into one sort of verifiable

673
00:27:27,940 --> 00:27:28,480
entity.

674
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,780
And how does that work with hijacked feeds?

675
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,400
Because there's a lot of them.

676
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,000
Well, they wouldn't be able to verify because

677
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,080
they wouldn't have control ownership over the feed

678
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:39,620
itself.

679
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,160
Well, there's a lot of people who, I

680
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,320
guess that's impossible to do, but there's a

681
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,960
lot of people out there who just rehost

682
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,860
episodes in an almost, or completely identical feed.

683
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,640
Right, but so like, if you have, so

684
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,440
if you have something like this, like the

685
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,420
Joe Rogan podcast, and somebody does a hijacked

686
00:28:02,420 --> 00:28:05,860
feed of that on Anchor, well, they can't,

687
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,960
they may have exactly a cloned feed, but

688
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,920
they can't do that second step verification to

689
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,120
Joe's real account.

690
00:28:14,500 --> 00:28:16,280
Right, but what if they register first?

691
00:28:16,340 --> 00:28:17,580
I'm just going through all the steps.

692
00:28:17,660 --> 00:28:19,060
So what if they say, yeah, I'm the

693
00:28:19,060 --> 00:28:23,080
Joe Rogan account, and then Joe Rogan comes

694
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:24,600
along and says, nah, you're not the Joe

695
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:25,200
Rogan account.

696
00:28:26,180 --> 00:28:28,640
Well, okay, so we're talking about a couple

697
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,060
of different things, and like, I think we're

698
00:28:32,060 --> 00:28:33,200
confusing some stuff.

699
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,940
Like, you're thinking of it as sort of

700
00:28:35,940 --> 00:28:42,500
like a universal identifier for like an identity.

701
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,340
Like, I'm Joe Rogan, and this is my

702
00:28:44,340 --> 00:28:44,680
podcast.

703
00:28:45,020 --> 00:28:46,740
Yeah, that's not how I should be thinking

704
00:28:46,740 --> 00:28:47,260
about it.

705
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,020
Well, that's not, I wasn't, yeah, that's a

706
00:28:50,020 --> 00:28:50,560
different thing.

707
00:28:50,580 --> 00:28:52,420
That's sort of like a universal identifier for

708
00:28:52,420 --> 00:28:55,820
an individual, but this, what we're talking about

709
00:28:55,820 --> 00:28:57,160
is sort of, or what I'm talking about

710
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,660
is sort of an overlay for a podcast

711
00:28:59,660 --> 00:29:05,020
as an entity, and then this, and we

712
00:29:05,020 --> 00:29:07,440
already have a way to establish sort of

713
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,340
a baseline of what those are, and it's

714
00:29:09,340 --> 00:29:11,120
the things that are already in the index.

715
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,020
So focus on the family with Jim Daley,

716
00:29:16,900 --> 00:29:20,220
that main show, we already have an idea,

717
00:29:20,340 --> 00:29:21,680
and this is a good example, because this

718
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,740
happened recently, they were still, we still had

719
00:29:23,740 --> 00:29:26,720
them listed with FeedBurner feeds.

720
00:29:27,700 --> 00:29:29,720
So actually, let's talk about this, because this

721
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,840
was, this is a perfect example of this.

722
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,840
So focus on the family with Jim Daley,

723
00:29:35,180 --> 00:29:43,000
that's their flagship show, and the, they're quote

724
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,400
-unquote main feed, the real feed for that

725
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,120
podcast is on Omni.

726
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:57,980
But they also had the FeedBurner URL for

727
00:29:57,980 --> 00:30:01,800
that show, which is updated because it's a

728
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:02,480
proxy.

729
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,980
It's most likely a proxy for the Omni

730
00:30:04,980 --> 00:30:05,260
feed.

731
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,520
It's also getting updated every single time.

732
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,020
So in a way, it doesn't necessarily matter

733
00:30:12,020 --> 00:30:14,440
what the feed URL was, because you're getting

734
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:15,820
the content every time.

735
00:30:16,100 --> 00:30:19,400
It was sort of irrelevant, and this is

736
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:20,980
a perfect example of the point I was

737
00:30:20,980 --> 00:30:21,460
trying to make.

738
00:30:21,780 --> 00:30:23,940
It's kind of irrelevant what the feed URL

739
00:30:23,940 --> 00:30:26,580
was, because every single day you got the

740
00:30:26,580 --> 00:30:29,240
new episode with the exact same content.

741
00:30:29,460 --> 00:30:29,880
True, true.

742
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,940
The only problem though is when you get

743
00:30:33,940 --> 00:30:37,660
a mismatch where perhaps Omni supports a tag

744
00:30:37,660 --> 00:30:40,520
that the FeedBurner proxy is not passing through

745
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,380
correctly, and then you're losing fidelity.

746
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,140
So then you would have a problem there.

747
00:30:46,260 --> 00:30:49,640
But this is a good example, because I

748
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,160
guarantee you, there are people all over the

749
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,300
internet that are subscribed to the Focus on

750
00:30:57,300 --> 00:30:58,960
the Family FeedBurner feed.

751
00:30:59,040 --> 00:30:59,740
Oh yeah, definitely.

752
00:31:00,180 --> 00:31:01,820
Not the Omni feed.

753
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,160
And so it's important that both of those

754
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:11,380
feeds be recognized as, not necessarily authoritative, that's

755
00:31:11,380 --> 00:31:15,940
the wrong word, but as valid under the

756
00:31:15,940 --> 00:31:18,280
scope of what Focus on the Family is

757
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:19,240
as a podcast.

758
00:31:19,980 --> 00:31:21,780
So they could go, so we already know

759
00:31:21,780 --> 00:31:23,500
that Focus on the Family with Jim Daley

760
00:31:23,500 --> 00:31:25,100
is a thing, it's an entity.

761
00:31:25,700 --> 00:31:27,260
So now we just need to know what

762
00:31:27,260 --> 00:31:32,720
feed URLs sort of point to this thing.

763
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,900
So that's the problem.

764
00:31:40,660 --> 00:31:43,000
So if we start with this entity, then

765
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,920
we have somebody coming in and saying, hey,

766
00:31:45,020 --> 00:31:46,580
I am Focus on the Family.

767
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,660
And I can prove ownership of the feed

768
00:31:50,660 --> 00:31:51,980
by doing X.

769
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,300
And then you have like a place to

770
00:31:55,300 --> 00:31:55,600
start.

771
00:31:55,700 --> 00:31:57,540
And as we say, okay, well, we also

772
00:31:57,540 --> 00:31:58,600
see that you have a feed burner.

773
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,280
There's also a feed burner feed that claims

774
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:01,620
this.

775
00:32:01,700 --> 00:32:02,920
Are you the owner of that too?

776
00:32:03,700 --> 00:32:04,360
Yeah, I am.

777
00:32:04,460 --> 00:32:05,800
We'll go verify that one.

778
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,460
So you begin to sort of like, Alex,

779
00:32:09,620 --> 00:32:10,800
am I making sense?

780
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:13,920
Yeah, there's different parts here.

781
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,300
Proving a feed ownership, which we do today

782
00:32:17,300 --> 00:32:22,960
with the lock tag and Apple's TXT record

783
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,100
for proving feed ownership.

784
00:32:25,900 --> 00:32:28,280
We could extend that maybe with public key

785
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:29,760
infrastructure or something like that.

786
00:32:31,860 --> 00:32:35,040
But proving that you own a feed is

787
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:36,100
pretty straightforward.

788
00:32:36,380 --> 00:32:37,600
We already have processes for that.

789
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,580
The second part Adam was referring to is

790
00:32:41,580 --> 00:32:45,580
more like reputation based, right?

791
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,680
Where, how do I know who you are,

792
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:48,980
who you say you are?

793
00:32:49,740 --> 00:32:51,480
Feed ownership is a good example of that.

794
00:32:51,860 --> 00:32:55,900
But we could also extend that to some

795
00:32:55,900 --> 00:32:58,960
of the social elements like, you know how

796
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,160
I messed it on or social media websites

797
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,500
who can prove you on a GitHub repository,

798
00:33:05,700 --> 00:33:08,060
or do you guys remember the service Keybase

799
00:33:08,060 --> 00:33:09,700
where you can like prove you own like

800
00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:10,600
a social media account?

801
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,320
Oh yeah, yeah, sure.

802
00:33:12,580 --> 00:33:15,180
Well, that's all part of reputation and we

803
00:33:15,180 --> 00:33:16,460
can build in reputation scores.

804
00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:19,080
So I think we can approach it from

805
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:20,300
two different angles in that regard.

806
00:33:20,540 --> 00:33:22,260
I mean, all I really care about is

807
00:33:22,260 --> 00:33:24,740
that we name it the podcast exclusive naming

808
00:33:24,740 --> 00:33:25,920
identity service.

809
00:33:26,100 --> 00:33:27,740
That's the only thing I care about.

810
00:33:29,140 --> 00:33:33,320
Yeah, yeah, this is the most important part.

811
00:33:33,460 --> 00:33:34,560
That's what I care about.

812
00:33:35,300 --> 00:33:38,820
Yeah, it needs to be very hard to,

813
00:33:38,820 --> 00:33:41,520
you know, it just needs to be hard.

814
00:33:43,220 --> 00:33:45,100
Thank you, penny dropped.

815
00:33:45,220 --> 00:33:45,900
Yeah, good, Dave.

816
00:33:48,140 --> 00:33:50,000
Yeah, well, what do you think about the

817
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,200
whole idea that the hosting companies already have

818
00:33:54,900 --> 00:33:57,620
a verifiable ownership sort of in their hands

819
00:33:57,620 --> 00:33:58,940
that they could pass to us?

820
00:33:59,180 --> 00:33:59,940
Is that useful?

821
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,000
I think, yeah, I think it's very useful.

822
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,120
Okay, it's a matter of trust.

823
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,360
And I mean, as much as you want

824
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,480
to, you can't discount the societal impact of

825
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,679
a community and the level of trust an

826
00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:17,360
entity brings.

827
00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:20,920
So there might be some higher trust hosts

828
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,320
and there might be some lower trust hosts.

829
00:34:22,659 --> 00:34:24,960
If you wanna do a self-hosted RSS

830
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,320
feed, you come along, people have no idea

831
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:28,880
who you are.

832
00:34:29,380 --> 00:34:31,980
You're gonna have to, just like in, if

833
00:34:31,980 --> 00:34:33,280
you like move to a new city or

834
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,100
something or village or whatever, you're gonna have

835
00:34:36,100 --> 00:34:37,800
to establish a base of trust and that

836
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:38,719
might take some time.

837
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,560
In that regard, it's kind of like hosting

838
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:44,420
your own email server.

839
00:34:44,860 --> 00:34:46,219
It's gonna take, you can do it, but

840
00:34:46,219 --> 00:34:48,460
it's gonna take some time to get trusted.

841
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:49,840
Is there any?

842
00:34:50,659 --> 00:34:51,400
Go ahead, Alex.

843
00:34:52,580 --> 00:34:55,100
Oh, so we can take those existing reputation

844
00:34:55,100 --> 00:34:57,320
scores and kind of learn from that too.

845
00:34:57,420 --> 00:35:01,420
Like eventually we'll want, it might be, you

846
00:35:01,420 --> 00:35:03,780
know, centralized at first, but we can use

847
00:35:03,780 --> 00:35:06,560
that basis of reputation to provide some kind

848
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,280
of podcast and feed reputation score.

849
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:15,200
What is the existing analog to this system

850
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:16,080
we're talking about?

851
00:35:23,070 --> 00:35:26,030
I don't, I think the existing analog is

852
00:35:26,030 --> 00:35:28,710
we already take all these actions and various

853
00:35:28,710 --> 00:35:30,890
different indexes and so forth every day in

854
00:35:30,890 --> 00:35:31,190
apps.

855
00:35:31,790 --> 00:35:34,030
It's just, we're trying to formalize it into

856
00:35:34,030 --> 00:35:37,790
a, into a sort of a specification.

857
00:35:40,690 --> 00:35:42,850
You could take some kind of analog and,

858
00:35:44,710 --> 00:35:48,030
I'm sure there's some kind of a society

859
00:35:48,950 --> 00:35:51,130
based philosophical thing here.

860
00:35:51,570 --> 00:35:54,130
Well, for sure, I think the right path

861
00:35:54,130 --> 00:35:56,690
is to start with the hosting companies to

862
00:35:56,690 --> 00:35:58,670
provide a lot of that verification.

863
00:35:58,990 --> 00:36:01,910
That just sounds so right to me.

864
00:36:02,850 --> 00:36:04,490
Because, you know, if we can make it

865
00:36:04,490 --> 00:36:07,310
simple enough that, oh Lord, even if ACAS

866
00:36:07,310 --> 00:36:10,090
or what now, what's their name?

867
00:36:10,230 --> 00:36:11,530
The Spotify service.

868
00:36:12,090 --> 00:36:13,070
You're thinking of Anchor.

869
00:36:13,270 --> 00:36:13,610
Anchor.

870
00:36:13,790 --> 00:36:17,890
If they would do it, because, you know,

871
00:36:18,010 --> 00:36:20,590
if we can get the hosting companies that

872
00:36:20,590 --> 00:36:22,590
if it's something simple enough that they can

873
00:36:22,590 --> 00:36:25,270
do this, then we actually can create something

874
00:36:25,270 --> 00:36:25,690
beautiful.

875
00:36:25,810 --> 00:36:27,290
I think that's the right direction.

876
00:36:27,290 --> 00:36:35,290
I think there's sort of, there's the fee,

877
00:36:36,810 --> 00:36:40,530
there's at least two steps to what we're

878
00:36:40,530 --> 00:36:41,190
trying to do.

879
00:36:41,250 --> 00:36:42,730
And I think that's kind of makes it

880
00:36:42,730 --> 00:36:43,750
a little bit confusing.

881
00:36:44,590 --> 00:36:49,790
But so if we have, if we have

882
00:36:49,790 --> 00:36:55,090
a podcast verification mechanism, which like Alex said,

883
00:36:55,130 --> 00:36:57,270
we already have multiple ways to do this.

884
00:36:57,270 --> 00:36:59,170
That part's not a problem.

885
00:37:01,250 --> 00:37:04,670
Then the question then is like, what happens

886
00:37:04,670 --> 00:37:05,190
next?

887
00:37:05,350 --> 00:37:06,550
So how do you- Right.

888
00:37:06,670 --> 00:37:08,110
So let's take the example.

889
00:37:08,250 --> 00:37:10,630
I go from rss.com, but like, I'm

890
00:37:10,630 --> 00:37:11,630
going to use Buzzsprout.

891
00:37:12,030 --> 00:37:13,370
What happens now?

892
00:37:14,010 --> 00:37:16,030
Does Buzzsprout go, oh, hold on.

893
00:37:16,110 --> 00:37:17,550
We see that you have an account with

894
00:37:17,550 --> 00:37:18,590
rss.com?

895
00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:20,750
See, okay.

896
00:37:21,190 --> 00:37:24,670
So let me back up to the podcast

897
00:37:24,670 --> 00:37:25,170
GUID.

898
00:37:25,930 --> 00:37:28,570
Because that's one of the things this was

899
00:37:28,570 --> 00:37:29,590
meant to fix.

900
00:37:30,430 --> 00:37:32,530
The podcast GUID was supposed to be a

901
00:37:32,530 --> 00:37:37,350
universal identifier where if somebody is moving from

902
00:37:37,350 --> 00:37:41,850
one podcast host to another, that the podcast

903
00:37:41,850 --> 00:37:43,250
GUID would remain the same.

904
00:37:43,350 --> 00:37:46,250
That way you could say, okay, I moved

905
00:37:46,250 --> 00:37:51,230
my podcast from Captivate to Transistor.

906
00:37:55,550 --> 00:37:58,990
And so my podcast GUID is the same

907
00:37:58,990 --> 00:37:59,410
here.

908
00:37:59,790 --> 00:38:02,250
That way everybody knows this is the same

909
00:38:02,250 --> 00:38:03,050
show.

910
00:38:03,150 --> 00:38:04,850
And it was meant as a sort of

911
00:38:04,850 --> 00:38:10,030
like identifier of the show, not the feed.

912
00:38:11,470 --> 00:38:16,730
And you parse, or so you initially create

913
00:38:16,730 --> 00:38:23,590
the GUID by a seed value and the

914
00:38:23,590 --> 00:38:25,950
URL, but that's just to give you the

915
00:38:25,950 --> 00:38:26,610
initial GUID.

916
00:38:26,650 --> 00:38:28,610
It really doesn't matter what the GUID was.

917
00:38:28,670 --> 00:38:29,690
You just needed one.

918
00:38:30,470 --> 00:38:33,630
And then once you had one for the

919
00:38:33,630 --> 00:38:35,210
life of your show, no matter where it

920
00:38:35,210 --> 00:38:39,830
lives, that GUID just remains the same.

921
00:38:40,670 --> 00:38:42,950
Now, I don't blame the hosting companies for

922
00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:46,650
this because they're not the ones that are

923
00:38:46,650 --> 00:38:48,990
the problem here.

924
00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:54,490
The problem is that the feed owners go

925
00:38:54,490 --> 00:38:58,410
and create, they create manually their same podcast

926
00:38:58,410 --> 00:38:59,210
on multiple hosts.

927
00:38:59,510 --> 00:39:01,010
They're not doing like an import.

928
00:39:01,110 --> 00:39:02,830
If they do an import, then the GUID

929
00:39:02,830 --> 00:39:04,030
should remain the same.

930
00:39:04,130 --> 00:39:05,010
It should be consistent.

931
00:39:05,950 --> 00:39:11,610
But the creators or podcast consultants or whoever's

932
00:39:11,610 --> 00:39:13,750
doing this, they're not doing an import or

933
00:39:13,750 --> 00:39:14,210
a move.

934
00:39:14,410 --> 00:39:17,490
They're just going and creating a new podcast

935
00:39:17,490 --> 00:39:18,650
with all the same details.

936
00:39:18,810 --> 00:39:19,930
And so you end up with this sort

937
00:39:19,930 --> 00:39:21,870
of like two versions of the same thing.

938
00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:27,390
So that, you know, in one way, in

939
00:39:27,390 --> 00:39:28,970
some way we already sort of kind of

940
00:39:28,970 --> 00:39:33,430
solved this, but we didn't because there's still

941
00:39:33,430 --> 00:39:36,130
this huge mess of people not doing things

942
00:39:36,130 --> 00:39:37,130
the right way.

943
00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:40,110
So in your example, if we go, if

944
00:39:40,110 --> 00:39:42,410
somebody goes from, you know, Buzzsprout to rss

945
00:39:42,410 --> 00:39:49,530
.com, well, then they should, if this is

946
00:39:49,530 --> 00:39:53,870
all working correctly, they would have verified their

947
00:39:53,870 --> 00:39:57,410
podcast on Buzzsprout and then they get over

948
00:39:57,410 --> 00:40:00,130
to rss.com and rss.com's interface says,

949
00:40:00,210 --> 00:40:03,190
hey, don't forget, don't forget, go register your

950
00:40:03,190 --> 00:40:06,990
podcast over at registeryourpodcast.com or whatever this

951
00:40:06,990 --> 00:40:07,550
thing's called.

952
00:40:07,950 --> 00:40:10,570
You know, be sure and go do that

953
00:40:10,570 --> 00:40:11,750
step because it's important.

954
00:40:13,190 --> 00:40:18,490
As a sort of social credit score, you

955
00:40:18,490 --> 00:40:21,050
know, type thing, go do that step.

956
00:40:21,170 --> 00:40:22,630
And then when they get there, now it's

957
00:40:22,630 --> 00:40:22,730
like, oh.

958
00:40:22,730 --> 00:40:23,430
Don't use that term.

959
00:40:23,530 --> 00:40:25,670
Don't use social credit score as a term,

960
00:40:25,850 --> 00:40:26,110
please.

961
00:40:26,490 --> 00:40:29,290
Cotton gin polluted my thinking.

962
00:40:29,530 --> 00:40:30,230
Yeah, I know.

963
00:40:31,310 --> 00:40:35,150
So, but you're, you know, like a reputation

964
00:40:35,150 --> 00:40:38,150
mechanism to say I'm, you know, here's my

965
00:40:38,150 --> 00:40:40,890
thing and I've attested to it.

966
00:40:42,950 --> 00:40:45,470
And so if that, and then once they

967
00:40:45,470 --> 00:40:48,090
hit, once they're in that phase of things,

968
00:40:48,230 --> 00:40:50,910
now you're back into the realm of, oh,

969
00:40:50,930 --> 00:40:52,710
hey, you know, you've already got this podcast

970
00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:54,070
over here and now you've got a podcast

971
00:40:54,070 --> 00:40:54,590
over here.

972
00:40:54,770 --> 00:40:56,030
These look like the same thing.

973
00:40:56,090 --> 00:40:56,770
Are they the same?

974
00:40:56,850 --> 00:40:57,490
And you say, yeah.

975
00:40:57,990 --> 00:40:59,330
And he's like, oh, okay, well, now we

976
00:40:59,330 --> 00:40:59,950
know who you are.

977
00:41:00,010 --> 00:41:02,130
Now we know what, now we know what

978
00:41:02,130 --> 00:41:03,030
show this is.

979
00:41:03,610 --> 00:41:08,570
But then after that, now, what does that

980
00:41:08,570 --> 00:41:09,430
step look like?

981
00:41:10,490 --> 00:41:14,210
And that's where I think, if I'm not

982
00:41:14,210 --> 00:41:19,390
mistaken, we could do something through Podpain where

983
00:41:19,390 --> 00:41:25,110
we just, you know, publish, you know, a

984
00:41:25,110 --> 00:41:26,970
certificate or something like that.

985
00:41:27,050 --> 00:41:31,290
That's a sort of a verification mechanism to

986
00:41:31,290 --> 00:41:35,890
say this person, this podcast- I like

987
00:41:35,890 --> 00:41:36,170
that.

988
00:41:36,370 --> 00:41:41,370
Had its ownership verified and then that can

989
00:41:41,370 --> 00:41:45,930
be another signal of reputation is, that makes

990
00:41:45,930 --> 00:41:47,670
sense to me, at least.

991
00:41:49,650 --> 00:41:55,360
Yeah, I think the service would maybe, so

992
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,280
maybe moviepodcast.com, you know, the more we

993
00:41:58,280 --> 00:41:59,220
talk about it, the less I like the

994
00:41:59,220 --> 00:42:02,640
name because it's not really moving your podcast

995
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:03,500
anymore.

996
00:42:03,500 --> 00:42:07,020
It's podcast ownership and stuff.

997
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,140
I think it's going to be, it's going

998
00:42:10,140 --> 00:42:11,140
to have to do some kind of good

999
00:42:11,140 --> 00:42:12,980
podcast, good reconciliation.

1000
00:42:14,740 --> 00:42:17,800
So maybe, you know, whenever you register your

1001
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:19,380
feeds, it's going to see which goods you

1002
00:42:19,380 --> 00:42:21,380
have and it's going to, if they're all

1003
00:42:21,380 --> 00:42:23,340
the same, you know, it's, there's not going

1004
00:42:23,340 --> 00:42:23,780
to be an issue.

1005
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,160
But if you have a bunch of different

1006
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,980
goods for the same podcast, it might, you

1007
00:42:27,980 --> 00:42:29,680
know, have instructions on how to fix that

1008
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:30,960
and just choose one for you.

1009
00:42:31,260 --> 00:42:32,940
Or it might see that you've taken a

1010
00:42:32,940 --> 00:42:35,540
goods that someone else has registered and, you

1011
00:42:35,540 --> 00:42:36,560
know, tells you how to fix it and

1012
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:36,920
so forth.

1013
00:42:37,060 --> 00:42:39,460
And then it might be as simple as

1014
00:42:39,460 --> 00:42:48,380
just attesting that the good match is registered

1015
00:42:48,380 --> 00:42:50,280
to that feed URL in Podping.

1016
00:42:54,100 --> 00:42:57,360
And moviepodcast.com has a Hive account and

1017
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:01,660
everyone looks at that attestation and that Hive

1018
00:43:01,660 --> 00:43:03,220
account says, okay, we trust this.

1019
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,860
And then they use that good for that

1020
00:43:06,860 --> 00:43:07,060
feed.

1021
00:43:08,700 --> 00:43:12,180
Yeah, so I could see where, Nathan's asking

1022
00:43:12,180 --> 00:43:13,940
what, you know, somebody fill me in on

1023
00:43:13,940 --> 00:43:15,480
what the reputation will be in service of.

1024
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:20,980
It's, we're talking about the sort of claiming

1025
00:43:20,980 --> 00:43:22,880
ownership of a feed, but in a way

1026
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:28,260
that's universal, where that claim of ownership can

1027
00:43:28,260 --> 00:43:33,620
be disseminated and trusted amongst all the participants

1028
00:43:33,620 --> 00:43:36,420
in the podcast, you know, ecosystem.

1029
00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:41,600
And so if, no matter where you're coming

1030
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,400
from is sort of the goal there.

1031
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,360
So if you had, if I understand you

1032
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,740
right, Alex, you're like, the way that would

1033
00:43:50,740 --> 00:43:55,400
work is you would say, you know, you've

1034
00:43:55,400 --> 00:44:01,960
got these two feeds and, or you've got,

1035
00:44:02,060 --> 00:44:04,140
you've just created a feed over here and

1036
00:44:04,140 --> 00:44:05,360
it looks like the same feed as over

1037
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:05,660
here.

1038
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,640
And we could sort of help the podcaster

1039
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:13,420
and say, hey, you've got two shows or

1040
00:44:13,420 --> 00:44:16,060
you've got what looks like one show that

1041
00:44:16,060 --> 00:44:17,120
has multiple feeds.

1042
00:44:17,220 --> 00:44:18,940
Is that what, are you wanting to do

1043
00:44:18,940 --> 00:44:19,140
that?

1044
00:44:19,180 --> 00:44:20,400
Is that what you intend?

1045
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,980
Because if not, you may be causing confusion

1046
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,260
with, and sort of like give them, it

1047
00:44:28,260 --> 00:44:30,380
could be a helpful service to them as

1048
00:44:30,380 --> 00:44:32,540
well because they may be screwing themselves up

1049
00:44:32,540 --> 00:44:33,660
just through ignorance.

1050
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:36,120
Yeah, it's that.

1051
00:44:36,420 --> 00:44:38,180
And then it's also thinking down the road

1052
00:44:38,180 --> 00:44:41,420
where, you know, if we can establish a

1053
00:44:41,420 --> 00:44:46,040
reputation system now, once we're ready to start

1054
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,120
decentralizing the whole system, we can use that

1055
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,520
bootstrap reputation score or whatever we call it

1056
00:44:53,100 --> 00:44:58,380
to help establish a more decentralized way of

1057
00:44:58,380 --> 00:45:01,580
trust, improving ownership and so forth.

1058
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:03,740
Okay.

1059
00:45:04,380 --> 00:45:09,560
So I'm a little cloudy.

1060
00:45:11,100 --> 00:45:13,860
To me on the last episode, it also

1061
00:45:13,860 --> 00:45:17,860
sounded a bit like Linktree where I can

1062
00:45:17,860 --> 00:45:19,260
say, I'm Joe Rogan.

1063
00:45:19,620 --> 00:45:21,180
Here's my megaphone feed.

1064
00:45:21,180 --> 00:45:22,840
Here's my YouTube channel.

1065
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,160
Is that now off the table with this

1066
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:25,540
system?

1067
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:28,080
No, I think we're talking about the same

1068
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:28,320
thing.

1069
00:45:28,580 --> 00:45:31,760
Let me just say this, that it is

1070
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,740
completely understandable that people would be confused by

1071
00:45:34,740 --> 00:45:35,920
what I said last week.

1072
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:38,680
Completely understandable.

1073
00:45:38,860 --> 00:45:41,560
I do not blame anybody for being confused

1074
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:45,060
about what I was talking about because it's

1075
00:45:45,060 --> 00:45:49,740
a universal thing that whenever you take a

1076
00:45:49,740 --> 00:45:53,320
concept and start breaking it down into smaller

1077
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:57,360
and smaller pieces, if you get to the,

1078
00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:59,780
as you go down in the level of

1079
00:45:59,780 --> 00:46:04,120
the building blocks, it gets actually harder to

1080
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:04,720
understand.

1081
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,500
I think that's kind of a universal thing.

1082
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:09,140
Right.

1083
00:46:09,420 --> 00:46:11,320
You know, like, it's like, as you start

1084
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,520
talking more and more specifically, you get lost,

1085
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,060
but you start to not be able to

1086
00:46:16,060 --> 00:46:17,260
see the forest for the trees.

1087
00:46:17,580 --> 00:46:19,420
So can you just tell me again, what

1088
00:46:19,420 --> 00:46:21,560
is the problem we're solving with this?

1089
00:46:22,140 --> 00:46:26,440
So the problem we're solving, trying to solve

1090
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:32,580
is the, maybe I can come at, maybe

1091
00:46:32,580 --> 00:46:33,960
I can come about it a different way.

1092
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:34,240
Okay.

1093
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:41,760
So we have two different, us and Apple.

1094
00:46:42,330 --> 00:46:49,320
We have two different methodologies or two different

1095
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,160
ways of looking at podcasting.

1096
00:46:51,690 --> 00:46:56,900
Apple, as is their want, they look at

1097
00:46:56,900 --> 00:47:02,020
it from the standpoint of an account.

1098
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:07,800
You have an account at Apple Podcast Connect.

1099
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,900
You go and you put your podcast into

1100
00:47:11,900 --> 00:47:13,400
their directory that way.

1101
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,100
They still have another way to get shows

1102
00:47:18,100 --> 00:47:21,300
in there, but that's their primary focus.

1103
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,120
And that's a validation mechanism.

1104
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,360
That's why, that's why Anchor back in the

1105
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:31,360
day had to hire all those interns to

1106
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:36,420
start manually putting shows into Apple because they

1107
00:47:36,420 --> 00:47:38,460
had to have accounts in order to do

1108
00:47:38,460 --> 00:47:38,720
it.

1109
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,420
And so they were just using labor to

1110
00:47:42,420 --> 00:47:42,740
do that.

1111
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:47,180
We have a completely different philosophy on how

1112
00:47:47,180 --> 00:47:48,220
to build a directory.

1113
00:47:48,620 --> 00:47:51,600
And our philosophy has always been, if we

1114
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:53,100
find a feed out there that looks like

1115
00:47:53,100 --> 00:47:55,960
a podcast feed, it's in there, done.

1116
00:47:58,620 --> 00:48:02,480
Apple has an advantage in this, not that

1117
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:04,820
we're competitors, we're not, but Apple has an

1118
00:48:04,820 --> 00:48:09,620
advantage in that they have a human being

1119
00:48:09,620 --> 00:48:12,480
that is claiming ownership in some way that

1120
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,360
they can verify.

1121
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:19,660
And they require, one of their verification steps

1122
00:48:19,660 --> 00:48:23,440
requires putting a code into your feed so

1123
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:24,160
that they can verify.

1124
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:25,920
That's why they adopted the TXT record.

1125
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,260
And so they have an advantage where they

1126
00:48:30,260 --> 00:48:32,500
can prove that a human being, or at

1127
00:48:32,500 --> 00:48:34,380
least something that looks like a human being,

1128
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,260
who knows nowadays, is doing this thing.

1129
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,880
We don't have anything like that.

1130
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,220
And as is typical for us, rather than

1131
00:48:44,220 --> 00:48:47,220
just replicating what they do in podcast index,

1132
00:48:47,380 --> 00:48:48,820
we're trying to solve it in a way

1133
00:48:48,820 --> 00:48:51,400
that's open and it makes it a thousand

1134
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:52,180
times harder.

1135
00:48:52,780 --> 00:48:56,260
Yeah, and case in point, we're in the

1136
00:48:56,260 --> 00:48:59,520
Apple database, neither you or I put it

1137
00:48:59,520 --> 00:48:59,900
in there.

1138
00:49:00,620 --> 00:49:02,280
Yeah, I don't have a- Some other

1139
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,040
human did that.

1140
00:49:04,340 --> 00:49:06,360
So, you know, the reputation is shot as

1141
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:07,400
far as I'm concerned.

1142
00:49:08,580 --> 00:49:12,420
Well, you know, that's, and that's like a,

1143
00:49:12,580 --> 00:49:14,860
it's human curated over there from the top

1144
00:49:14,860 --> 00:49:15,300
down.

1145
00:49:15,660 --> 00:49:18,660
And that's just the way they like to

1146
00:49:18,660 --> 00:49:19,040
do things.

1147
00:49:19,260 --> 00:49:20,500
And it actually, it works well.

1148
00:49:20,580 --> 00:49:21,680
It keeps a bunch of junk out of

1149
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:23,100
their directory, but not all the time.

1150
00:49:23,100 --> 00:49:25,320
Yeah, but does it, I mean, RSS.com

1151
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:26,260
auto-submits.

1152
00:49:26,260 --> 00:49:30,340
I mean, is that a generalized API account

1153
00:49:30,340 --> 00:49:32,320
that just says rss.com?

1154
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:34,240
You mean auto-submits to Apple?

1155
00:49:34,420 --> 00:49:34,660
Yeah.

1156
00:49:35,340 --> 00:49:36,720
Oh, I don't think they do, do they?

1157
00:49:36,740 --> 00:49:37,440
Yes, they do.

1158
00:49:38,380 --> 00:49:41,440
You don't have to have a account?

1159
00:49:41,660 --> 00:49:41,860
Nope.

1160
00:49:42,340 --> 00:49:44,820
You just check the box on rss.com

1161
00:49:44,820 --> 00:49:48,320
for Spotify, for Apple, for Amazon, and it

1162
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:49,020
just happens.

1163
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,560
Okay, so they're using their hosting relationship.

1164
00:49:52,860 --> 00:49:54,360
They must have a special connection, okay.

1165
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,200
Yeah, but that's important, particularly in this aspect.

1166
00:49:57,970 --> 00:49:58,620
It is.

1167
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,380
Because doing it in an open way that

1168
00:50:04,380 --> 00:50:07,000
doesn't make us the central authority of the

1169
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:12,680
whole world, which it makes everything way, way

1170
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:13,100
harder.

1171
00:50:13,500 --> 00:50:15,620
And in order to even begin to get

1172
00:50:15,620 --> 00:50:18,400
a feeling for what to do, you have

1173
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,780
to analyze what every aspect of the existing

1174
00:50:21,780 --> 00:50:25,240
way that things are.

1175
00:50:25,660 --> 00:50:28,320
And so you have to get a little

1176
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,340
bit philosophical first before you get technical.

1177
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,380
And we're kind of in the in-between

1178
00:50:33,380 --> 00:50:37,080
stage now where we're like, okay, but you

1179
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,340
weren't wrong in saying that that's kind of

1180
00:50:40,340 --> 00:50:44,700
what we're after in your sort of Linktree

1181
00:50:44,700 --> 00:50:45,300
idea.

1182
00:50:46,660 --> 00:50:49,900
It's like, you have to have a starting

1183
00:50:49,900 --> 00:50:53,780
point and then sort of an ending point

1184
00:50:53,780 --> 00:50:57,180
where you say, okay, we're starting from this

1185
00:50:57,180 --> 00:50:57,760
place.

1186
00:50:58,220 --> 00:51:00,860
How do we get to the Linktree sort

1187
00:51:00,860 --> 00:51:03,800
of building block and then what happens after?

1188
00:51:05,140 --> 00:51:06,480
I think that's kind of what we're trying

1189
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:07,920
to figure out right now.

1190
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,640
I think Keybase is actually a better analogy

1191
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:13,740
because it has a list of all your

1192
00:51:13,740 --> 00:51:15,480
social media accounts, but it also provides a

1193
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:20,300
way to cryptographically sign stuff, which is, I'm

1194
00:51:20,300 --> 00:51:22,140
not saying that we're gonna have to do

1195
00:51:22,140 --> 00:51:26,600
that necessarily, but that's a way of finding

1196
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,640
who you are and a method of proving

1197
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:31,800
in other means.

1198
00:51:32,780 --> 00:51:34,040
Keybase, is that the GPG?

1199
00:51:35,260 --> 00:51:35,600
Yes.

1200
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:37,560
Yeah, it provides GPG keys and so forth.

1201
00:51:38,100 --> 00:51:38,340
Okay.

1202
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:43,440
And then just to answer Adam's question, I

1203
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:45,200
mean, it's a way of proving feed ownership

1204
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:46,660
is gonna help in a lot of ways.

1205
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:49,980
It's not just multiple hosts, it's multiple different

1206
00:51:49,980 --> 00:51:53,040
URIs, especially like this podcast is on IPFS

1207
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:53,740
podcasting.

1208
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:54,560
Yep.

1209
00:51:54,620 --> 00:51:55,840
How do you prove that you own that

1210
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:56,240
URL?

1211
00:51:56,940 --> 00:51:59,000
Like that we're gonna have to, I think

1212
00:51:59,000 --> 00:51:59,860
this will help do that.

1213
00:52:02,180 --> 00:52:03,360
And I think it's a valid use case

1214
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,900
to have multiple URLs for a feed in

1215
00:52:05,900 --> 00:52:06,700
several scenarios.

1216
00:52:08,940 --> 00:52:13,800
Additionally, having this bootstrap reputation system, I think

1217
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,620
will actually help solve the AI slop issue

1218
00:52:16,620 --> 00:52:19,680
you mentioned you started the show with because

1219
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,820
we can use this as a place for

1220
00:52:22,820 --> 00:52:26,180
the whole community at large, the trusted members

1221
00:52:26,180 --> 00:52:29,360
of the boardroom to mark feeds as AI

1222
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:29,660
slop.

1223
00:52:31,300 --> 00:52:32,480
Yeah, I like that.

1224
00:52:34,670 --> 00:52:34,850
Yeah.

1225
00:52:35,490 --> 00:52:39,870
Yeah, cause this is, okay, well, it's similar

1226
00:52:39,870 --> 00:52:40,630
to TLS.

1227
00:52:41,850 --> 00:52:45,570
If you have, just because a website has

1228
00:52:45,570 --> 00:52:48,010
a TLS certificate, that doesn't mean that it's

1229
00:52:48,010 --> 00:52:48,710
a safe website.

1230
00:52:48,710 --> 00:52:49,030
No.

1231
00:52:49,950 --> 00:52:52,510
It doesn't mean that it's not complete garbage.

1232
00:52:53,030 --> 00:52:55,950
It could be just a piece of crap

1233
00:52:55,950 --> 00:52:59,030
spam website with nothing but ads on it

1234
00:52:59,030 --> 00:53:00,690
that nobody ever wants to look at or

1235
00:53:00,690 --> 00:53:01,110
go to.

1236
00:53:05,010 --> 00:53:09,710
Somebody has still done an ownership verification and

1237
00:53:09,710 --> 00:53:12,330
that's all that Let's Encrypt is doing is

1238
00:53:12,330 --> 00:53:14,350
they're saying, do you own this domain?

1239
00:53:14,470 --> 00:53:16,090
Yeah, well, here's a certificate.

1240
00:53:16,610 --> 00:53:18,170
And so it's the sort of the same

1241
00:53:18,170 --> 00:53:18,990
with us.

1242
00:53:19,070 --> 00:53:21,250
You have that step that says, do you

1243
00:53:21,250 --> 00:53:22,110
own this podcast?

1244
00:53:22,410 --> 00:53:22,910
Prove it.

1245
00:53:23,530 --> 00:53:24,470
Okay, you proved it.

1246
00:53:24,510 --> 00:53:25,610
You're the owner of this podcast.

1247
00:53:27,330 --> 00:53:31,590
Now there's this other thing where are you,

1248
00:53:31,830 --> 00:53:32,750
is this garbage?

1249
00:53:33,670 --> 00:53:36,390
Okay, so you at least get a leg

1250
00:53:36,390 --> 00:53:40,090
up in that fight by having some sort

1251
00:53:40,090 --> 00:53:41,850
of verification step, but then you have to

1252
00:53:41,850 --> 00:53:43,250
also go like what Alex said.

1253
00:53:43,250 --> 00:53:45,570
You have to have a human curation trusted.

1254
00:53:46,290 --> 00:53:48,610
Somebody has to look at it and say,

1255
00:53:48,790 --> 00:53:51,010
yeah, this is or this isn't.

1256
00:53:51,690 --> 00:53:53,770
You don't really get away from that.

1257
00:53:55,210 --> 00:53:57,310
I mean, we could make it easier, I

1258
00:53:57,310 --> 00:53:57,690
think.

1259
00:53:59,290 --> 00:54:01,970
Like, we can make it easier by passing

1260
00:54:01,970 --> 00:54:04,410
it through sort of a loose filter first,

1261
00:54:04,490 --> 00:54:06,170
which is sort of the same way corporate

1262
00:54:06,170 --> 00:54:09,770
email spam filtering and virus filtering works today.

1263
00:54:10,330 --> 00:54:14,230
You have sort of like 90% of

1264
00:54:14,230 --> 00:54:16,450
the spam just gets blocked and you never

1265
00:54:16,450 --> 00:54:17,010
see it.

1266
00:54:17,850 --> 00:54:19,650
And if you ever go look at it,

1267
00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:22,070
you're like, oh, that's just, you know, that's

1268
00:54:22,070 --> 00:54:23,270
100% obvious.

1269
00:54:23,530 --> 00:54:26,730
So they take away, they get you 90

1270
00:54:26,730 --> 00:54:27,870
% of the way there.

1271
00:54:28,010 --> 00:54:31,670
And then that last 10%, you just gotta

1272
00:54:31,670 --> 00:54:34,310
have real human eyeballs to look at it.

1273
00:54:38,670 --> 00:54:41,330
It's going to be a lot less manual

1274
00:54:41,330 --> 00:54:42,230
than that sounds too.

1275
00:54:42,410 --> 00:54:45,310
I mean, like you said, rss.com or

1276
00:54:45,310 --> 00:54:48,210
Buzzsprout, you know, if they publish it, you

1277
00:54:48,210 --> 00:54:49,110
know, they do their own checking.

1278
00:54:49,390 --> 00:54:50,490
So it's going to be a little bit

1279
00:54:50,490 --> 00:54:52,070
more reliable.

1280
00:54:52,390 --> 00:54:54,970
And additionally, we could provide some kind of

1281
00:54:54,970 --> 00:54:58,490
trust API for John Spurlock's input too, you

1282
00:54:58,490 --> 00:54:59,130
know, for example.

1283
00:55:00,110 --> 00:55:03,190
So how can I market this to normies?

1284
00:55:06,170 --> 00:55:07,330
What do I say?

1285
00:55:07,550 --> 00:55:10,390
You need to do this because...

1286
00:55:11,030 --> 00:55:13,190
To do the verification step thing?

1287
00:55:13,670 --> 00:55:14,850
Yeah, why do you need to be a

1288
00:55:14,850 --> 00:55:19,670
part of this verified trusted identity for your

1289
00:55:19,670 --> 00:55:20,030
podcast?

1290
00:55:21,910 --> 00:55:26,550
Well, for, you know, that's a good thing

1291
00:55:26,550 --> 00:55:30,810
to say because what I think implicit in

1292
00:55:30,810 --> 00:55:35,530
what we're saying but not spoken is that

1293
00:55:35,530 --> 00:55:39,450
when you, if you go and have, if

1294
00:55:39,450 --> 00:55:41,570
somebody takes the time to go and verify,

1295
00:55:42,450 --> 00:55:46,170
that is a, that's a meaningful signal.

1296
00:55:47,190 --> 00:55:49,970
So that, when it comes to things like

1297
00:55:49,970 --> 00:55:55,450
discovery and that sort of thing, a podcast

1298
00:55:55,450 --> 00:56:01,170
where somebody has taken an extra step to,

1299
00:56:01,170 --> 00:56:04,690
you know, to go and say, hey, this

1300
00:56:04,690 --> 00:56:07,710
is legit, this is my show, somewhere somebody

1301
00:56:07,710 --> 00:56:11,270
has taken some extra step, that's a signal

1302
00:56:11,270 --> 00:56:13,470
that we can use to show quality.

1303
00:56:14,750 --> 00:56:18,490
It doesn't, you know, I don't like, and

1304
00:56:18,490 --> 00:56:20,090
Brooklyn said he said the C word, this

1305
00:56:20,090 --> 00:56:21,650
is not censorship.

1306
00:56:21,990 --> 00:56:26,310
This is like, I mean, and this is

1307
00:56:26,310 --> 00:56:30,650
no more censorship than having a spam folder

1308
00:56:30,650 --> 00:56:32,330
in your mailbox is censorship.

1309
00:56:33,730 --> 00:56:36,710
Like there is some things that are just,

1310
00:56:36,990 --> 00:56:39,290
that are truly garbage.

1311
00:56:39,730 --> 00:56:41,790
And I don't mean garbage as a moral

1312
00:56:41,790 --> 00:56:42,210
judgment.

1313
00:56:42,430 --> 00:56:45,430
I mean, as a fact, you know, I

1314
00:56:45,430 --> 00:56:50,090
saw, and go look at, oh, corporate, I

1315
00:56:50,090 --> 00:56:50,570
see what you mean.

1316
00:56:52,050 --> 00:56:52,730
Sorry about that.

1317
00:56:53,510 --> 00:56:57,150
Go and look at the recent news feeds

1318
00:56:57,150 --> 00:57:00,010
endpoint, or recent feeds endpoint.

1319
00:57:00,850 --> 00:57:03,690
You'll see exactly, as you're looking through there,

1320
00:57:04,550 --> 00:57:06,870
this, it's funny how this all goes back

1321
00:57:06,870 --> 00:57:10,170
to the, was it, was it the hustler

1322
00:57:10,170 --> 00:57:12,450
guy that, or the judge in the hustler

1323
00:57:12,450 --> 00:57:15,470
case that was like, I don't, I can't

1324
00:57:15,470 --> 00:57:16,750
define porn, but I know it when I

1325
00:57:16,750 --> 00:57:17,050
see it.

1326
00:57:17,150 --> 00:57:18,790
Yeah, that was the Larry Flynn case.

1327
00:57:19,150 --> 00:57:19,590
Larry Flynn.

1328
00:57:19,990 --> 00:57:21,130
Larry Flynn case.

1329
00:57:22,130 --> 00:57:24,330
It's funny how all this stuff comes back

1330
00:57:24,330 --> 00:57:24,770
to that.

1331
00:57:25,110 --> 00:57:27,250
I can't, I can't define it, but I

1332
00:57:27,250 --> 00:57:28,250
know it when I see it.

1333
00:57:29,110 --> 00:57:31,190
So often that is the case.

1334
00:57:31,530 --> 00:57:33,490
And if you look at that new feeds

1335
00:57:33,490 --> 00:57:36,350
endpoint, you're like- What is that endpoint,

1336
00:57:36,630 --> 00:57:36,750
Dave?

1337
00:57:39,030 --> 00:57:48,090
It is api.podcastindex.org slash, let me

1338
00:57:48,090 --> 00:57:50,650
get it verified.

1339
00:57:51,130 --> 00:57:52,810
Yeah, podcastindex.org.

1340
00:57:56,290 --> 00:57:57,290
API V1.

1341
00:57:57,770 --> 00:58:03,510
I think it's recent new feeds API.

1342
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:07,200
That's V1 API.

1343
00:58:09,460 --> 00:58:10,880
V1, yeah.

1344
00:58:18,790 --> 00:58:19,890
I can't find it.

1345
00:58:22,330 --> 00:58:23,710
Where did I put it?

1346
00:58:23,730 --> 00:58:24,930
Is it documented somewhere?

1347
00:58:25,850 --> 00:58:27,550
Yeah, yeah, it's, oh, I know where to

1348
00:58:27,550 --> 00:58:27,910
get it.

1349
00:58:28,230 --> 00:58:28,990
Let's see, docs.

1350
00:58:30,350 --> 00:58:32,490
Usually this is the time when Nathan pipes

1351
00:58:32,490 --> 00:58:33,450
in and drops the link.

1352
00:58:33,870 --> 00:58:37,090
Yeah, but he's drinking the eggnog right now.

1353
00:58:37,610 --> 00:58:38,190
Oh, here it is.

1354
00:58:38,230 --> 00:58:40,750
I gotta copy clean link.

1355
00:58:41,310 --> 00:58:43,210
I was actually, Nathan, I was asking for

1356
00:58:43,210 --> 00:58:43,630
the URL.

1357
00:58:44,450 --> 00:58:45,550
Yeah, okay.

1358
00:58:45,610 --> 00:58:46,450
Oh, there it is.

1359
00:58:46,570 --> 00:58:47,150
There it is.

1360
00:58:47,350 --> 00:58:48,410
Yeah, thank you, Dave.

1361
00:58:48,510 --> 00:58:49,230
All right, got it.

1362
00:58:49,450 --> 00:58:50,230
Yeah, so that's the thing.

1363
00:58:50,270 --> 00:58:53,650
So you can scroll through this and you

1364
00:58:53,650 --> 00:58:55,250
can be, and you can just see, yep,

1365
00:58:55,310 --> 00:58:55,750
there's one.

1366
00:58:56,130 --> 00:58:56,870
Yep, there's one.

1367
00:58:57,070 --> 00:58:57,430
There's one.

1368
00:58:57,430 --> 00:59:01,350
The ones that are junk, that you know

1369
00:59:01,350 --> 00:59:09,990
are just like monetization farming through or affiliate

1370
00:59:09,990 --> 00:59:11,690
spam, that kind of thing.

1371
00:59:12,050 --> 00:59:13,630
You just, they stand out like a sore

1372
00:59:13,630 --> 00:59:13,950
thumb.

1373
00:59:15,270 --> 00:59:17,370
Well, and Dave, some of it's just accidental

1374
00:59:17,370 --> 00:59:20,090
too, like WordPress feeds.

1375
00:59:20,230 --> 00:59:20,450
Yeah.

1376
00:59:20,930 --> 00:59:21,830
Oh yeah, yeah.

1377
00:59:21,950 --> 00:59:24,330
Like you could say it's just bad implementation

1378
00:59:24,330 --> 00:59:25,090
or it's a bug.

1379
00:59:25,590 --> 00:59:27,970
There's all sorts of scenarios.

1380
00:59:29,290 --> 00:59:30,790
Or, and you know, we could even think

1381
00:59:30,790 --> 00:59:32,950
about pod ping spam as well.

1382
00:59:33,190 --> 00:59:35,730
Like, you remember that guy that you had

1383
00:59:35,730 --> 00:59:37,950
to block that was publishing like thousands and

1384
00:59:37,950 --> 00:59:39,470
thousands of updates for?

1385
00:59:40,210 --> 00:59:40,350
Yes.

1386
00:59:41,710 --> 00:59:44,230
That's, it could be considered malicious behavior if

1387
00:59:44,230 --> 00:59:44,730
not a bug.

1388
00:59:45,030 --> 00:59:47,670
And we could take like, you were able

1389
00:59:47,670 --> 00:59:49,130
to block it because it was on pod

1390
00:59:49,130 --> 00:59:51,930
ping.cloud, but theoretically they could spend all

1391
00:59:51,930 --> 00:59:54,210
the money they want and publish on their

1392
00:59:54,210 --> 00:59:55,150
own pod ping account.

1393
00:59:56,430 --> 00:59:59,690
And that's a sign of negative reputation, like,

1394
00:59:59,830 --> 01:00:00,810
hey, you're spamming the system.

1395
01:00:02,330 --> 01:00:02,430
Yeah.

1396
01:00:03,090 --> 01:00:05,470
Yeah, that's a good point.

1397
01:00:05,790 --> 01:00:08,630
And so before, in the interest of time,

1398
01:00:08,770 --> 01:00:12,970
why don't, we've had two, the last two

1399
01:00:12,970 --> 01:00:17,370
weeks people have brought up that Hive is

1400
01:00:17,370 --> 01:00:19,350
quote, shaky, unquote.

1401
01:00:19,490 --> 01:00:21,410
And I have no idea.

1402
01:00:21,410 --> 01:00:23,070
I don't know if that's true or not.

1403
01:00:23,670 --> 01:00:24,930
All I know is that Brian of London

1404
01:00:24,930 --> 01:00:27,010
usually pops in and tells us that that's

1405
01:00:27,010 --> 01:00:28,870
fake news, but he has not.

1406
01:00:28,990 --> 01:00:30,430
The fact that he didn't is kind of

1407
01:00:30,430 --> 01:00:30,790
sus.

1408
01:00:31,830 --> 01:00:33,470
That kind of concerns me.

1409
01:00:33,670 --> 01:00:36,250
Cause I was banking on Brian being like,

1410
01:00:36,490 --> 01:00:38,290
you know, that's fake news, but he didn't,

1411
01:00:38,410 --> 01:00:39,410
he's not said anything.

1412
01:00:39,510 --> 01:00:40,510
So I'm like, what?

1413
01:00:41,990 --> 01:00:43,750
Do we build our own blockchain?

1414
01:00:44,030 --> 01:00:45,790
I guess, is that the question?

1415
01:00:48,050 --> 01:00:49,570
Yeah, I mean, I haven't heard anything either.

1416
01:00:49,570 --> 01:00:51,470
Usually Brian tells me if something's going to

1417
01:00:51,470 --> 01:00:51,710
happen.

1418
01:00:55,190 --> 01:00:57,150
I've been thinking about this for years.

1419
01:00:57,270 --> 01:00:59,550
So it's not like the recent discussion is

1420
01:00:59,550 --> 01:01:01,950
causing a change in my regard.

1421
01:01:02,730 --> 01:01:04,110
I want to get away from Hive just

1422
01:01:04,110 --> 01:01:07,810
because I don't think any implementation detail is

1423
01:01:07,810 --> 01:01:10,190
a good thing for this sort of technology.

1424
01:01:12,050 --> 01:01:15,010
I think we need to start thinking about

1425
01:01:15,570 --> 01:01:18,530
how to develop and use the system's reputation

1426
01:01:20,110 --> 01:01:22,750
proving that you are who you say you

1427
01:01:22,750 --> 01:01:25,970
are and proving that you own an RSS

1428
01:01:25,970 --> 01:01:27,670
feed by some means.

1429
01:01:28,270 --> 01:01:31,310
I think this podcast thing might become the

1430
01:01:31,310 --> 01:01:33,190
new sort of account based system that we

1431
01:01:33,190 --> 01:01:33,710
have on Hive.

1432
01:01:36,650 --> 01:01:39,230
Saying that we need a blockchain, that's probably

1433
01:01:39,230 --> 01:01:40,390
a little bit extreme.

1434
01:01:41,310 --> 01:01:42,370
But it's so hip.

1435
01:01:43,450 --> 01:01:45,530
Yeah, I mean, you could do, I think

1436
01:01:45,530 --> 01:01:48,670
the nano blockchain has a way of having

1437
01:01:48,670 --> 01:01:51,650
individual like micro blockchains for every different wallet

1438
01:01:51,650 --> 01:01:54,450
or something that might be worth considering.

1439
01:01:56,350 --> 01:01:58,890
But I mean, I think, I talked to

1440
01:01:58,890 --> 01:02:00,510
you about this Dave a while ago, maybe

1441
01:02:00,510 --> 01:02:03,850
having some kind of RSS feed versioning system

1442
01:02:04,630 --> 01:02:07,450
where you have different versions of RSS feeds

1443
01:02:08,290 --> 01:02:10,990
to be able to look up historical feeds

1444
01:02:10,990 --> 01:02:14,230
and like the latest version might be something

1445
01:02:14,230 --> 01:02:15,490
worthwhile.

1446
01:02:17,690 --> 01:02:21,270
And it's all these ideas of using reputation,

1447
01:02:21,530 --> 01:02:25,090
using different ways of proving feed ownership and

1448
01:02:25,090 --> 01:02:29,270
having a peer-to-peer based system bootstrapped

1449
01:02:29,270 --> 01:02:32,610
off of everything we're working on with some

1450
01:02:32,610 --> 01:02:35,870
kind of a decentralized protocol I think is

1451
01:02:35,870 --> 01:02:36,410
the way to go.

1452
01:02:36,870 --> 01:02:39,270
I don't have implementation details yet, but that's

1453
01:02:39,270 --> 01:02:40,370
where my mind is.

1454
01:02:41,310 --> 01:02:46,610
Yeah, Eric, we've looked at Eero and LabP2P

1455
01:02:46,610 --> 01:02:47,190
and that kind of thing.

1456
01:02:47,190 --> 01:02:49,630
Alex and I have done tests on that

1457
01:02:49,630 --> 01:02:52,930
in the past and run some proof of

1458
01:02:52,930 --> 01:02:54,090
concepts and stuff like that.

1459
01:02:54,210 --> 01:02:58,190
It's never, there's always been sort of blockers

1460
01:02:58,190 --> 01:02:59,810
here and there where like, especially with like

1461
01:02:59,810 --> 01:03:03,730
LabP2P, they get, they drop, initially they were

1462
01:03:03,730 --> 01:03:06,750
all in on IPFS but then they pulled

1463
01:03:06,750 --> 01:03:12,170
out of IPFS with their swarm protocol and

1464
01:03:12,170 --> 01:03:12,670
that kind of thing.

1465
01:03:12,810 --> 01:03:15,190
So I think, or the pub sub, I'm

1466
01:03:15,190 --> 01:03:15,370
sorry.

1467
01:03:16,310 --> 01:03:18,910
And so there's always a little bit of

1468
01:03:18,910 --> 01:03:19,190
thing.

1469
01:03:19,330 --> 01:03:23,610
I mean, Eero looks very promising, but I

1470
01:03:23,610 --> 01:03:25,530
don't know if it's solid enough yet.

1471
01:03:25,650 --> 01:03:26,930
The only thing that, I guess the only

1472
01:03:26,930 --> 01:03:28,490
thing that brought up blockchain to me is

1473
01:03:28,490 --> 01:03:30,490
I like, the thing that I like about

1474
01:03:30,490 --> 01:03:33,850
the blockchain aspect is that you have this

1475
01:03:33,850 --> 01:03:36,990
record where you can go back, because this

1476
01:03:36,990 --> 01:03:38,350
is the other thing that I was thinking

1477
01:03:38,350 --> 01:03:42,730
about literally this morning is in the, like

1478
01:03:42,730 --> 01:03:45,090
in the domain name world, in the DNS

1479
01:03:45,090 --> 01:03:49,290
world, one of the big reputation factors is

1480
01:03:49,290 --> 01:03:51,790
your age, how long you've been around.

1481
01:03:52,690 --> 01:03:58,510
And the blockchain lets you have this sort

1482
01:03:58,510 --> 01:04:03,670
of, lets you have this immutable record where

1483
01:04:03,670 --> 01:04:07,970
you can say, here's where this podcast, this

1484
01:04:07,970 --> 01:04:08,870
feed was born.

1485
01:04:09,450 --> 01:04:11,130
Here's how old this thing is.

1486
01:04:12,290 --> 01:04:14,910
And like that can be a major, if

1487
01:04:14,910 --> 01:04:20,490
it's provable through a non-modifiable ledger, then

1488
01:04:20,490 --> 01:04:24,550
you have this way to say this thing

1489
01:04:24,550 --> 01:04:27,390
is this old and I can prove it,

1490
01:04:27,490 --> 01:04:29,310
which is cool.

1491
01:04:30,110 --> 01:04:33,230
Yeah, maybe if we can do the micro

1492
01:04:33,230 --> 01:04:36,490
blockchain approach, which I'm nowhere near an expert

1493
01:04:36,490 --> 01:04:37,070
in any of this.

1494
01:04:37,070 --> 01:04:40,530
So I'm speculating a lot, but maybe each

1495
01:04:40,530 --> 01:04:43,370
podcast entity could have its own little tiny

1496
01:04:43,370 --> 01:04:46,650
blockchain that gets distributed throughout the ledger or

1497
01:04:46,650 --> 01:04:48,010
something like that.

1498
01:04:51,570 --> 01:04:53,210
But it's a great idea.

1499
01:04:53,750 --> 01:04:55,390
I don't think any of it matters until

1500
01:04:55,390 --> 01:04:57,690
we have a basis of being able to

1501
01:04:57,690 --> 01:05:00,910
prove you are who you say you are

1502
01:05:00,910 --> 01:05:02,730
in one manner or another.

1503
01:05:03,690 --> 01:05:06,090
I actually think that's- Do you have

1504
01:05:06,090 --> 01:05:07,090
a proof of RSS or something?

1505
01:05:07,830 --> 01:05:11,870
Yeah, I think the web UI part of

1506
01:05:11,870 --> 01:05:14,130
that, like where you're proving your ownership, I

1507
01:05:14,130 --> 01:05:17,110
think that feels very simple to me.

1508
01:05:17,210 --> 01:05:18,170
That seems easy to build.

1509
01:05:19,190 --> 01:05:20,770
I think we could get through that pretty

1510
01:05:20,770 --> 01:05:21,270
quick.

1511
01:05:21,930 --> 01:05:23,630
And then it's just a matter of like

1512
01:05:23,630 --> 01:05:28,550
what you're saying, where does that proof go

1513
01:05:28,550 --> 01:05:29,090
afterwards?

1514
01:05:29,390 --> 01:05:31,170
I'm going to have to ask again, because

1515
01:05:31,170 --> 01:05:32,830
I don't think I really heard the answer.

1516
01:05:33,330 --> 01:05:36,670
How can I market that people need to

1517
01:05:36,670 --> 01:05:37,170
do this?

1518
01:05:37,270 --> 01:05:40,490
And when I say market, it's like back

1519
01:05:40,490 --> 01:05:43,110
in the day, oh, you're doing a podcast?

1520
01:05:43,410 --> 01:05:45,130
Okay, you've got to register with Apple.

1521
01:05:47,150 --> 01:05:48,450
So- Okay, so why?

1522
01:05:48,510 --> 01:05:49,770
But why did you tell them they have

1523
01:05:49,770 --> 01:05:50,530
to register with Apple?

1524
01:05:50,670 --> 01:05:52,070
I didn't tell anybody that.

1525
01:05:52,130 --> 01:05:52,890
That was the thing.

1526
01:05:52,910 --> 01:05:53,570
Well, I mean, not you.

1527
01:05:54,290 --> 01:05:56,110
Apple told, if anyone, Apple told them.

1528
01:05:56,170 --> 01:05:57,990
Well, first of all, people don't understand how

1529
01:05:57,990 --> 01:05:58,490
it works.

1530
01:05:59,590 --> 01:06:00,950
You know, we have to- But what

1531
01:06:00,950 --> 01:06:03,090
was the carrot though, that was being dangled?

1532
01:06:03,790 --> 01:06:05,990
If you want to be on Apple's podcast,

1533
01:06:06,310 --> 01:06:08,890
you've got to register with Apple's podcast system.

1534
01:06:09,790 --> 01:06:13,950
Okay, well, so, well, maybe we, maybe the

1535
01:06:13,950 --> 01:06:16,030
carrot that we dangle in order to get

1536
01:06:16,030 --> 01:06:21,430
this thing jump-started is go claim your

1537
01:06:21,430 --> 01:06:26,090
podcasts in this open system, and then that

1538
01:06:26,090 --> 01:06:28,370
gets you on some sort of chart.

1539
01:06:28,370 --> 01:06:30,290
Yeah, you're fired from the marketing department.

1540
01:06:30,430 --> 01:06:31,530
I think they're sorry.

1541
01:06:33,130 --> 01:06:35,690
It's some sort of- Chart, a chart.

1542
01:06:36,470 --> 01:06:38,690
No, the domain is some sort of dot

1543
01:06:38,690 --> 01:06:39,050
chart.

1544
01:06:39,610 --> 01:06:39,710
Yes.

1545
01:06:40,890 --> 01:06:42,730
And you get a sticker.

1546
01:06:43,630 --> 01:06:44,670
Get the sticker, yes.

1547
01:06:44,830 --> 01:06:47,090
Top 5% of the web that comes

1548
01:06:47,090 --> 01:06:47,750
back to us.

1549
01:06:48,110 --> 01:06:49,310
But you see what I'm saying?

1550
01:06:49,430 --> 01:06:51,510
It's like either you use a fear-based

1551
01:06:51,510 --> 01:06:54,770
marketing, protect your podcast, that's one way to

1552
01:06:54,770 --> 01:06:55,150
do it.

1553
01:06:57,110 --> 01:07:02,670
The other, and I'm struggling, I'm just trying

1554
01:07:02,670 --> 01:07:05,290
to figure out what, how do we give

1555
01:07:05,290 --> 01:07:07,310
this some fuel so that people are like,

1556
01:07:07,370 --> 01:07:08,770
oh yeah, this is great, I need to

1557
01:07:08,770 --> 01:07:10,050
be a part of this, I want to

1558
01:07:10,050 --> 01:07:12,150
be in on that, because it will grow

1559
01:07:12,150 --> 01:07:12,790
my show.

1560
01:07:14,150 --> 01:07:15,690
Yeah, I don't think that's the only way

1561
01:07:15,690 --> 01:07:16,550
to think about this either.

1562
01:07:17,830 --> 01:07:19,910
It may be that we use a system

1563
01:07:19,910 --> 01:07:21,790
of delegated authority.

1564
01:07:23,570 --> 01:07:26,390
If someone just wants to, if RSS.com

1565
01:07:26,390 --> 01:07:29,650
has a way of registering a podcast on

1566
01:07:29,650 --> 01:07:33,450
someone's behalf, just to get started, they may

1567
01:07:33,450 --> 01:07:34,850
never have to log in until they want

1568
01:07:34,850 --> 01:07:37,450
to migrate their podcast to somewhere else or

1569
01:07:37,450 --> 01:07:37,690
something.

1570
01:07:42,060 --> 01:07:42,440
Yeah.

1571
01:07:44,260 --> 01:07:46,300
You don't seem excited about that.

1572
01:07:46,300 --> 01:07:49,100
Well, no, I'm just, I'm still kind of

1573
01:07:49,100 --> 01:07:51,380
struggling, like what exactly are we solving?

1574
01:07:52,580 --> 01:07:54,940
I don't think you'll get it until you

1575
01:07:54,940 --> 01:07:56,560
see the interface, to be honest.

1576
01:07:57,220 --> 01:07:59,600
And that interface is nowhere near ready to

1577
01:07:59,600 --> 01:07:59,840
be.

1578
01:07:59,940 --> 01:08:03,540
I can vibe code Python, brother, I can

1579
01:08:03,540 --> 01:08:03,960
get it.

1580
01:08:04,020 --> 01:08:05,240
You just need to explain it to me

1581
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:06,240
in terms I understand.

1582
01:08:06,700 --> 01:08:09,360
I'm just trying, because we can create a

1583
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:13,600
great system, but I feel my contribution is

1584
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:14,840
to get people to use it.

1585
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:17,779
And I don't quite have the story to

1586
01:08:17,779 --> 01:08:20,620
say, this is why you need to do

1587
01:08:20,620 --> 01:08:24,479
this, other than save the podcast index.

1588
01:08:25,380 --> 01:08:28,220
I'm trying to figure, and all indexes for

1589
01:08:28,220 --> 01:08:28,660
that matter.

1590
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:31,779
I'm trying to come up with the reason.

1591
01:08:33,180 --> 01:08:36,080
I like the idea, because I can also

1592
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:38,240
see it as a resource, as a big

1593
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:42,340
resource, actually, where Joe Rogan example, here's my

1594
01:08:42,340 --> 01:08:47,439
RSS feed, here's my YouTube, and I could

1595
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:48,240
even take it further.

1596
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:50,220
Here's my Clips feed.

1597
01:08:50,220 --> 01:08:52,000
There's lots of different things you can do

1598
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:54,960
with this, which I find exciting and exportable,

1599
01:08:55,060 --> 01:08:56,700
and people can build new products with.

1600
01:08:57,700 --> 01:09:00,319
But I just can't quite grasp the story

1601
01:09:00,319 --> 01:09:04,060
of what we're trying to get people to

1602
01:09:04,060 --> 01:09:05,720
do and why they would do it.

1603
01:09:07,359 --> 01:09:08,680
Yeah, I see what you mean.

1604
01:09:09,140 --> 01:09:11,560
Because again, people don't understand.

1605
01:09:12,540 --> 01:09:16,160
They see rss.com as a distributor in

1606
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:19,840
the way that CD Baby is a distributor.

1607
01:09:20,319 --> 01:09:22,140
Oh, I just upload it here, and they

1608
01:09:22,140 --> 01:09:24,020
distribute it to the podcast platforms.

1609
01:09:24,220 --> 01:09:25,840
That's all they see.

1610
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:28,100
They do not understand RSS.

1611
01:09:28,319 --> 01:09:29,340
The battle is over.

1612
01:09:29,540 --> 01:09:32,720
We've lost, we can't go back, and the

1613
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:33,760
toothpaste is out.

1614
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:37,160
So from that vantage point, what am I

1615
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:37,620
telling them?

1616
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:42,160
Yeah, I guess my point is we're not

1617
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:43,880
even 100% certain what we're building yet.

1618
01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:45,399
Okay, fair.

1619
01:09:45,540 --> 01:09:46,180
All right, that's fair.

1620
01:09:46,500 --> 01:09:51,439
By the way, Hive, in January of 2025,

1621
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:56,140
it was 60 cents a token, and currently

1622
01:09:56,140 --> 01:09:59,160
it is 8 cents a token.

1623
01:09:59,960 --> 01:10:02,900
So it's down 63% this year.

1624
01:10:03,340 --> 01:10:04,740
So that doesn't necessarily- There's a lot

1625
01:10:04,740 --> 01:10:07,160
of inflationary measures in Hive.

1626
01:10:07,300 --> 01:10:08,560
Like it's a lot of funny money, so

1627
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:10,840
I don't really know what that means.

1628
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:13,500
It doesn't mean anything other than people may

1629
01:10:13,500 --> 01:10:15,040
look at that and say, Hive is over.

1630
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:16,800
Probably means nothing.

1631
01:10:17,380 --> 01:10:18,840
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1632
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:19,520
I can see that.

1633
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:23,020
Well, my retirement is that, there goes my

1634
01:10:23,020 --> 01:10:23,360
retirement.

1635
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:25,340
Oh, my Hive.

1636
01:10:26,220 --> 01:10:28,200
Oh, it just went up to 9 cents.

1637
01:10:28,340 --> 01:10:28,460
Woo!

1638
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:30,680
Go, get out, get out.

1639
01:10:30,780 --> 01:10:31,900
To the moon, to the moon.

1640
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:33,720
Sell, sell, sell, sell.

1641
01:10:35,420 --> 01:10:37,860
Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, we don't fully

1642
01:10:37,860 --> 01:10:38,200
know.

1643
01:10:39,140 --> 01:10:40,660
We don't fully know what we're building yet,

1644
01:10:40,660 --> 01:10:44,180
but I think the, it could be that,

1645
01:10:44,480 --> 01:10:47,360
as far as I can think, it should

1646
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:53,400
be, we should start with the hosting companies

1647
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:56,440
trying to get them to buy in, and

1648
01:10:56,440 --> 01:10:59,920
then in a way that is transparent to

1649
01:10:59,920 --> 01:11:00,400
the user.

1650
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:03,740
Like if we can have some sort, if

1651
01:11:03,740 --> 01:11:08,560
we have a method where this person's podcast

1652
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:12,920
gets verified with them doing nothing, and they

1653
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:16,500
just sort of get this thing, this proof,

1654
01:11:17,660 --> 01:11:20,660
they just receive the benefits.

1655
01:11:21,300 --> 01:11:22,280
What are the benefits?

1656
01:11:23,020 --> 01:11:23,840
I don't know.

1657
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:27,560
I mean, there's benefits to us.

1658
01:11:29,620 --> 01:11:31,880
There's benefits to us, but I don't know

1659
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:34,880
about, like, they just, I don't know how

1660
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:36,660
to, I can't, I don't know what the

1661
01:11:36,660 --> 01:11:37,480
carrot is yet.

1662
01:11:37,900 --> 01:11:38,160
Okay.

1663
01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:42,580
Well, hold on, tell me again why you

1664
01:11:42,580 --> 01:11:43,060
want it.

1665
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:44,660
Why do you want this, Dave?

1666
01:11:44,700 --> 01:11:46,140
What do you want it to do for

1667
01:11:46,140 --> 01:11:46,820
your life?

1668
01:11:48,020 --> 01:11:48,340
Because.

1669
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:51,320
No, no, not because, just what do you

1670
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:51,620
want?

1671
01:11:52,420 --> 01:11:56,480
I want a better quality directory.

1672
01:11:56,700 --> 01:11:57,040
Okay.

1673
01:11:57,820 --> 01:12:00,920
And that starts with not, that starts with

1674
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:04,840
having, with knowing that a feed is legitimately

1675
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:09,240
a podcast, knowing that a feed is authoritative

1676
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:11,020
for a particular podcast, and that's a thing

1677
01:12:11,020 --> 01:12:11,860
we do not have.

1678
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:17,040
The user will not care until they have

1679
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:17,420
a problem.

1680
01:12:18,860 --> 01:12:20,300
That's all the emails you get in the

1681
01:12:20,300 --> 01:12:20,740
podcast inbox.

1682
01:12:20,740 --> 01:12:23,980
Okay, so here's a crazy thought.

1683
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:28,400
This is something I have a feeling Apple

1684
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:31,360
may actually be interested in working with us

1685
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:31,600
on.

1686
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:33,700
They have the same problem.

1687
01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:38,340
Yes, they have the human part of it,

1688
01:12:38,500 --> 01:12:39,880
but not exclusively.

1689
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:44,280
I mean, there's no way that there's Apple

1690
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:47,680
Connect accounts being created for rss.com auto

1691
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:48,860
-submit podcasts.

1692
01:12:49,460 --> 01:12:50,080
True.

1693
01:12:50,540 --> 01:12:54,080
So they're also getting slop, especially with RSS.

1694
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:54,880
They are, yeah.

1695
01:12:55,020 --> 01:12:57,520
Yeah, rss.com has a free tier now,

1696
01:12:57,840 --> 01:12:59,640
so slop is inevitable.

1697
01:13:01,460 --> 01:13:02,900
So, hello, Ted.

1698
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:05,660
Maybe there's something that we can do in

1699
01:13:05,660 --> 01:13:06,440
tandem with them.

1700
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:09,640
I mean, everybody would benefit, and I see

1701
01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:12,060
on the back end of this, I see

1702
01:13:12,060 --> 01:13:14,160
all kinds of new products being able to

1703
01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:20,460
be built based upon someone actively managing their

1704
01:13:20,460 --> 01:13:22,100
identity and their feeds.

1705
01:13:22,240 --> 01:13:23,880
I can see all kinds of great things

1706
01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:24,660
coming out of that.

1707
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:27,980
It's the fun part.

1708
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:30,300
No, you're cutting out, Alex.

1709
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:30,940
You're cutting out.

1710
01:13:30,940 --> 01:13:32,480
It's the fight against AI slop.

1711
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:36,060
Well, see, that I can sell.

1712
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:38,420
Fight against slop.

1713
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:40,880
Rock against religion.

1714
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:44,440
The why has, as Nathan said, the why

1715
01:13:44,440 --> 01:13:46,360
has to be something like, quote, we're building

1716
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:49,500
the best podcast search API endpoint for all

1717
01:13:49,500 --> 01:13:50,760
the podcasts in 2.0 apps.

1718
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:52,400
We need to create a reputation metric to

1719
01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:52,800
get there.

1720
01:13:53,060 --> 01:13:53,380
Boom.

1721
01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:57,120
Better search, more relevant search.

1722
01:13:57,120 --> 01:14:00,460
These are- Discovery, yeah.

1723
01:14:00,740 --> 01:14:03,260
These, well, that's true.

1724
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:05,880
It is, yeah.

1725
01:14:05,900 --> 01:14:06,620
That is true.

1726
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:07,260
Okay.

1727
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:09,120
We're building- That's why I said a

1728
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:09,420
chart.

1729
01:14:09,660 --> 01:14:10,500
That's why I said a chart.

1730
01:14:10,660 --> 01:14:12,560
Okay, all right, chart man.

1731
01:14:13,260 --> 01:14:14,340
Something about chart.

1732
01:14:16,940 --> 01:14:19,560
Building better discovery is very compelling.

1733
01:14:20,220 --> 01:14:23,020
Just in the, as Dave has a hard

1734
01:14:23,020 --> 01:14:25,660
out, in the limited time we have, what

1735
01:14:25,660 --> 01:14:27,940
kind of mechanism can we create to help

1736
01:14:27,940 --> 01:14:30,120
build better discovery from a better directory?

1737
01:14:30,260 --> 01:14:32,560
How does a better directory result in better

1738
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:33,140
discovery?

1739
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:36,640
Because it involves a human doing something.

1740
01:14:38,420 --> 01:14:41,980
It involves in a, whenever a, where we

1741
01:14:41,980 --> 01:14:46,040
are in the history of the internet is

1742
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:49,680
whenever an actual human does a thing, that's

1743
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:52,160
the strongest signal there is now.

1744
01:14:53,280 --> 01:14:56,220
It's the community collectively doing it, not just

1745
01:14:56,220 --> 01:14:56,560
the human.

1746
01:14:57,360 --> 01:14:58,540
True, yeah, yeah, true.

1747
01:14:59,080 --> 01:14:59,560
I like it.

1748
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:01,380
This I like.

1749
01:15:01,940 --> 01:15:04,000
I mean, I like it all, but now

1750
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:05,100
I feel like I can be a part

1751
01:15:05,100 --> 01:15:06,740
of it because I felt kind of pushed

1752
01:15:06,740 --> 01:15:07,660
to the sideline.

1753
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:09,560
Oh, sorry, sugar.

1754
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:11,800
You'll understand when we build it, Curry.

1755
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:12,720
Thanks, Alex.

1756
01:15:14,580 --> 01:15:16,060
You're building, you're going to build it.

1757
01:15:16,220 --> 01:15:17,200
You're going to vibe code it.

1758
01:15:18,820 --> 01:15:21,060
Well, you know, the new Gemini, it can

1759
01:15:21,060 --> 01:15:21,580
do everything.

1760
01:15:21,580 --> 01:15:23,020
It's going to run my phone now, I

1761
01:15:23,020 --> 01:15:23,820
just heard, so.

1762
01:15:24,220 --> 01:15:25,880
Yeah, you know Flask, so you can do

1763
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:25,980
it.

1764
01:15:26,220 --> 01:15:28,320
Flask, Flask is the bomb, baby.

1765
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:31,100
Yeah, clearly it is.

1766
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:34,340
You've made legitimately killer software.

1767
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:37,280
Basic auth, but okay, it's Flask.

1768
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:40,920
Basic auth, the pop-up, the little username

1769
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:41,440
and password.

1770
01:15:41,620 --> 01:15:43,220
It's so old school, I love it.

1771
01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:44,240
No one's complained yet.

1772
01:15:44,340 --> 01:15:45,500
No one said, hey, what's that?

1773
01:15:45,660 --> 01:15:46,920
It feels official.

1774
01:15:47,300 --> 01:15:49,300
Like, wow, my browser is asking for something

1775
01:15:49,300 --> 01:15:49,680
different.

1776
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:51,580
It's not just some rando webpage.

1777
01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:54,880
You go to what you think is the

1778
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:58,340
Godcaster live system and you're like, wait, did

1779
01:15:58,340 --> 01:15:59,740
I accidentally log into my router?

1780
01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:00,320
Yeah.

1781
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:03,960
Exactly.

1782
01:16:05,420 --> 01:16:07,040
I think we need to thank some people

1783
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:08,080
because I want to get you out on

1784
01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:08,560
time, Dave.

1785
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:10,140
We got exactly 11 minutes.

1786
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:11,060
All right.

1787
01:16:11,780 --> 01:16:13,480
Let me see what came in during the

1788
01:16:13,480 --> 01:16:13,780
show.

1789
01:16:13,900 --> 01:16:17,040
Oh, there's Sam with 15,395 sats coming

1790
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:18,320
in from true fans.

1791
01:16:18,860 --> 01:16:21,480
Love the show, drinking red wine and sat

1792
01:16:21,480 --> 01:16:22,340
in the bath.

1793
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:26,180
Let me just get a visual.

1794
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:27,100
Let me get a visual.

1795
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:30,260
Hashtag TMI, but don't understand anything from this

1796
01:16:30,260 --> 01:16:31,480
week or last week's show.

1797
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:33,380
I'll leave it to smarter people than me.

1798
01:16:33,460 --> 01:16:36,200
We currently support Podping and WebSub in and

1799
01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:36,440
out.

1800
01:16:37,060 --> 01:16:40,340
Well, actually, Sam, the way I just heard

1801
01:16:40,340 --> 01:16:45,120
it, which probably this boost predates that, is

1802
01:16:45,120 --> 01:16:48,280
we can create better discovery for true fans

1803
01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:49,000
users.

1804
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:52,700
If we do this thing right, then true

1805
01:16:52,700 --> 01:16:54,940
fans will be a big beneficiary of this.

1806
01:16:55,080 --> 01:16:55,220
Bingo.

1807
01:16:55,620 --> 01:16:57,240
So this is what I like.

1808
01:16:57,280 --> 01:16:57,940
Now I'm excited.

1809
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:02,760
Roa Swans, three fives from Salty Crayon.

1810
01:17:03,460 --> 01:17:05,040
He says, what's on the menu for the

1811
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:06,480
Christmas office party, Dave?

1812
01:17:07,660 --> 01:17:08,180
Drinks.

1813
01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:08,660
Okay.

1814
01:17:09,620 --> 01:17:10,060
Alcohol.

1815
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:14,660
Martin Lindeskog, 1773 from true fans.

1816
01:17:14,780 --> 01:17:17,660
How did you commemorate Boston Tea Party on

1817
01:17:17,660 --> 01:17:18,760
December 16th?

1818
01:17:21,100 --> 01:17:21,500
Whoops.

1819
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:22,560
I guess I forgot.

1820
01:17:23,260 --> 01:17:24,620
I hope this- That wasn't on my

1821
01:17:24,620 --> 01:17:25,400
Apple calendar.

1822
01:17:25,700 --> 01:17:28,820
I hope this Boostergram with 1773 Satoshis will

1823
01:17:28,820 --> 01:17:29,220
go through.

1824
01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:30,960
I understand that it's a challenge with plenty

1825
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:32,420
of splits that could take some time to

1826
01:17:32,420 --> 01:17:33,320
go through to the receiver.

1827
01:17:33,500 --> 01:17:35,560
I am happy that streaming sats is working.

1828
01:17:35,740 --> 01:17:38,280
Everything's, you know, it seems like the move,

1829
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:43,320
the basic move to LNURL is, I think

1830
01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:44,080
we're kind of there.

1831
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:46,440
It feels like there's been a lot of

1832
01:17:46,440 --> 01:17:46,820
movement.

1833
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:48,240
Do you get that feeling, Dave?

1834
01:17:48,860 --> 01:17:50,480
Yeah, things have settled down for sure.

1835
01:17:50,780 --> 01:17:51,860
Yeah, it feels pretty good.

1836
01:17:51,980 --> 01:17:52,240
I think so.

1837
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:54,140
There's Salty Crayon again.

1838
01:17:54,340 --> 01:17:55,200
Ho, ho, ho, Dave and Adam.

1839
01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:57,240
Spotify isn't the only slop bucket.

1840
01:17:58,020 --> 01:18:00,980
Wave Lake hosts 90% AI slop since

1841
01:18:00,980 --> 01:18:02,080
this became an infection.

1842
01:18:02,580 --> 01:18:05,880
Fountain is guilty lately of hosting AI slop.

1843
01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:09,320
Luckily, we have apps like V4Vmusic.com to

1844
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:11,580
help filter this since these applications are not

1845
01:18:11,580 --> 01:18:12,400
labeling them.

1846
01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:13,060
In the pipe!

1847
01:18:13,820 --> 01:18:13,960
Yeah.

1848
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:17,620
Whenever you have a monetization scheme, you're gonna

1849
01:18:17,620 --> 01:18:18,400
get- Yeah, you're gonna get slop.

1850
01:18:19,420 --> 01:18:21,880
Franco Solario coming in from his very own

1851
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:22,580
Castamatic.

1852
01:18:22,900 --> 01:18:24,500
1,225.

1853
01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:29,060
Bonus des Natales Solis Invicti, he says.

1854
01:18:29,580 --> 01:18:31,580
Did he say, is that the Italian in

1855
01:18:31,580 --> 01:18:32,900
the middle there for des nuts?

1856
01:18:33,320 --> 01:18:33,700
Yeah.

1857
01:18:35,060 --> 01:18:36,000
Hold on a second.

1858
01:18:36,140 --> 01:18:38,740
Let's put it into Gemini.

1859
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:40,920
Let's do a little translate.

1860
01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:43,940
And let's see what that means.

1861
01:18:44,580 --> 01:18:45,220
Do-do-do-do-do.

1862
01:18:45,540 --> 01:18:47,940
Happy birthday of the unconquered sun.

1863
01:18:49,500 --> 01:18:49,980
Ooh.

1864
01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:50,800
Wow.

1865
01:18:51,620 --> 01:18:53,600
Never heard that- Sun, S-U-N

1866
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:54,180
or S-O-N?

1867
01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:55,720
S-U-N, S-U-N.

1868
01:18:56,080 --> 01:18:57,060
Oh, I like that.

1869
01:18:57,280 --> 01:19:00,680
Oh, that's some Italian for sure.

1870
01:19:02,260 --> 01:19:04,120
And then I hit the delimiter.

1871
01:19:04,480 --> 01:19:05,400
Commissure blogger.

1872
01:19:05,540 --> 01:19:06,900
So take it away, Dave.

1873
01:19:08,700 --> 01:19:11,540
We got a little gift, Christmas gift from

1874
01:19:11,540 --> 01:19:14,560
the ladies and gentlemen of Buzzsprout of $1

1875
01:19:14,560 --> 01:19:14,760
,000.

1876
01:19:17,820 --> 01:19:18,860
Hold on a second.

1877
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:20,940
I got to grab my, there we go.

1878
01:19:22,220 --> 01:19:22,740
Shotcaller!

1879
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:24,060
20 inch blade!

1880
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:25,340
Only in Paula!

1881
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:26,680
Well, ho, ho, ho.

1882
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:28,700
Merry Christmas to you, Buzzsprouters.

1883
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:31,060
We are here to make your discovery better.

1884
01:19:32,140 --> 01:19:32,660
Yes, sir.

1885
01:19:32,660 --> 01:19:36,060
Yeah, you only have to do slight code

1886
01:19:36,060 --> 01:19:36,740
implementation.

1887
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:37,320
Yes.

1888
01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:38,940
It will be painless, I promise.

1889
01:19:39,140 --> 01:19:39,260
Yes.

1890
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:44,740
We have, that's our only big one this

1891
01:19:44,740 --> 01:19:44,940
week.

1892
01:19:45,020 --> 01:19:47,140
So we got some boosts.

1893
01:19:47,200 --> 01:19:48,720
We got December 13th here.

1894
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:50,180
We got Ugly Cracking Duck.

1895
01:19:51,240 --> 01:19:53,960
Bruce2222 through Podcast Guru says, AI and bad

1896
01:19:53,960 --> 01:19:57,220
players are pushing everything and everyone into a

1897
01:19:57,220 --> 01:19:58,460
digital ID system.

1898
01:19:58,600 --> 01:19:59,420
We will be marked.

1899
01:19:59,780 --> 01:20:00,240
73.

1900
01:20:00,780 --> 01:20:01,100
Hmm.

1901
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:05,480
Hmm.

1902
01:20:06,100 --> 01:20:06,740
Ominous.

1903
01:20:07,020 --> 01:20:07,220
Hmm.

1904
01:20:08,660 --> 01:20:10,200
5225 from Anonymous.

1905
01:20:11,100 --> 01:20:12,440
True fan support.

1906
01:20:12,660 --> 01:20:13,360
Thank you, Anonymous.

1907
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:14,220
Appreciate that.

1908
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:17,820
2222 from Seloss on Linux.

1909
01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:19,240
Fountain.

1910
01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:21,880
He says, with that endpoint of new shows,

1911
01:20:21,960 --> 01:20:23,900
maybe we could do a bird watch type

1912
01:20:23,900 --> 01:20:24,320
thing.

1913
01:20:24,700 --> 01:20:27,180
That is what later turned into community notes

1914
01:20:27,180 --> 01:20:29,720
on X, where it has people write and

1915
01:20:29,720 --> 01:20:31,620
rate notes, and the notes only show up

1916
01:20:31,620 --> 01:20:34,700
if people that usually disagree agree that this

1917
01:20:34,700 --> 01:20:36,260
post needs a note.

1918
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:36,860
Wow.

1919
01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:39,780
That could come from any user reports from

1920
01:20:39,780 --> 01:20:41,720
apps too, I guess, but then we would

1921
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:43,720
need a centralized way of tracking the reports.

1922
01:20:46,100 --> 01:20:49,560
That would work for removing shows automatically in

1923
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:51,920
an actually reliable way though, just as an

1924
01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:52,280
idea.

1925
01:20:53,380 --> 01:20:54,340
Kind of like that.

1926
01:20:54,620 --> 01:20:57,760
I mean, I actually like the whole community

1927
01:20:57,760 --> 01:20:58,620
notes idea.

1928
01:20:59,100 --> 01:21:00,820
I've always kind of dug that.

1929
01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:04,460
Yeah, community notes is the only good part

1930
01:21:04,460 --> 01:21:04,860
of Twitter.

1931
01:21:05,460 --> 01:21:05,900
Yes.

1932
01:21:06,280 --> 01:21:08,160
Facebook tried, it kind of failed though.

1933
01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:09,400
It hasn't really worked for them.

1934
01:21:11,370 --> 01:21:12,030
I wonder why.

1935
01:21:12,870 --> 01:21:13,630
It's Facebook.

1936
01:21:14,330 --> 01:21:15,910
Yeah, well, everything fails there.

1937
01:21:17,590 --> 01:21:18,070
Interesting.

1938
01:21:18,330 --> 01:21:18,530
Okay.

1939
01:21:18,750 --> 01:21:21,290
Well, that's an interesting idea.

1940
01:21:21,590 --> 01:21:22,490
See, oh, Delimiter.

1941
01:21:22,690 --> 01:21:23,510
Comic strip blogger.

1942
01:21:24,450 --> 01:21:25,430
17333 through Fountain.

1943
01:21:26,690 --> 01:21:27,450
Howdy, Dave and Adam.

1944
01:21:27,750 --> 01:21:30,330
In my childhood, I was forced to be

1945
01:21:30,330 --> 01:21:32,470
religious, but I am agnostic now.

1946
01:21:33,050 --> 01:21:33,290
Nonetheless.

1947
01:21:33,730 --> 01:21:35,310
Force, force fed.

1948
01:21:36,870 --> 01:21:40,190
Nonetheless, I'd like to recommend a podcast called

1949
01:21:40,190 --> 01:21:42,990
We Get to Do This by Adam and

1950
01:21:42,990 --> 01:21:44,330
his pal, Jim Pruitt.

1951
01:21:44,550 --> 01:21:47,550
It's about hearing aids, satisfying their.

1952
01:21:50,950 --> 01:21:52,210
Yeah, that's part of it.

1953
01:21:53,250 --> 01:21:56,990
It's about hearing aids, satisfying their wives, social

1954
01:21:56,990 --> 01:21:58,150
networks and aging.

1955
01:21:58,790 --> 01:22:01,270
They also talk about a deity called Jesus.

1956
01:22:02,390 --> 01:22:11,890
Website is https://rss.com/.podcasts/.we-get-to-do-this/.

1957
01:22:11,890 --> 01:22:14,710
Just look it up in your podcast app.

1958
01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:17,410
We get to do this.

1959
01:22:17,810 --> 01:22:18,370
Oh, that's cool.

1960
01:22:18,470 --> 01:22:19,530
Thank you, comic strip blogger.

1961
01:22:20,030 --> 01:22:22,010
Good podcast because authentic.

1962
01:22:22,190 --> 01:22:23,930
Yo, CSB AI arch wizard.

1963
01:22:24,130 --> 01:22:25,950
He is the AI arch wizard.

1964
01:22:25,950 --> 01:22:32,670
He has Lady Vox doing his voiceover for

1965
01:22:32,670 --> 01:22:34,890
his AI arch wizard show.

1966
01:22:35,730 --> 01:22:38,590
And I got a Christmas package from her.

1967
01:22:39,050 --> 01:22:42,710
Really sweet with a beautiful note and with

1968
01:22:42,710 --> 01:22:46,570
some Alaska sockeye salmon and some like dried

1969
01:22:46,570 --> 01:22:47,250
fish.

1970
01:22:47,450 --> 01:22:49,250
And yeah, it was really sweet.

1971
01:22:49,250 --> 01:22:49,910
Well, that was really nice.

1972
01:22:50,050 --> 01:22:51,170
Yeah, very, very sweet.

1973
01:22:51,230 --> 01:22:52,710
I think she listens to this show too.

1974
01:22:53,170 --> 01:22:53,730
I think so.

1975
01:22:53,810 --> 01:22:53,950
Oh.

1976
01:22:54,550 --> 01:22:56,270
She's with the grumpy old dames.

1977
01:22:56,550 --> 01:22:57,350
She's with that show.

1978
01:22:58,130 --> 01:22:59,370
Verifiably not AI.

1979
01:22:59,750 --> 01:23:01,290
No, no, definitely not AI.

1980
01:23:01,610 --> 01:23:02,290
Definitely not.

1981
01:23:03,510 --> 01:23:04,430
Got some monthlies.

1982
01:23:04,570 --> 01:23:04,890
Derek J.

1983
01:23:04,990 --> 01:23:06,210
Visker, $21.

1984
01:23:06,670 --> 01:23:11,350
Paul Saltzman, $22.22. Damon Kasejak, $15.

1985
01:23:11,830 --> 01:23:12,990
And Timothy Voice, $10.

1986
01:23:13,310 --> 01:23:13,910
And that's our group.

1987
01:23:14,090 --> 01:23:14,430
Beautiful.

1988
01:23:14,590 --> 01:23:15,590
Thank you all very much.

1989
01:23:15,710 --> 01:23:18,570
You can go to podcastindex.org to support

1990
01:23:18,570 --> 01:23:20,190
us with some fiat fund coupons.

1991
01:23:20,270 --> 01:23:21,730
Just scroll down to the bottom, big red

1992
01:23:21,730 --> 01:23:22,430
donate button.

1993
01:23:22,890 --> 01:23:24,310
Or of course you can boost us.

1994
01:23:24,450 --> 01:23:26,570
We are open and available for boosting.

1995
01:23:28,070 --> 01:23:30,170
So we won't have another show until after

1996
01:23:30,170 --> 01:23:30,470
Christmas.

1997
01:23:30,530 --> 01:23:31,670
Are we going to do the day after

1998
01:23:31,670 --> 01:23:32,010
Christmas?

1999
01:23:32,130 --> 01:23:32,830
We're going to do a show?

2000
01:23:32,950 --> 01:23:34,210
Or are we going to take one day

2001
01:23:34,210 --> 01:23:34,490
off?

2002
01:23:35,310 --> 01:23:36,090
I'm good with it.

2003
01:23:36,170 --> 01:23:36,510
I'm good.

2004
01:23:36,730 --> 01:23:37,790
No, I'm good.

2005
01:23:38,590 --> 01:23:39,250
Yeah, I'm good with it.

2006
01:23:39,290 --> 01:23:39,650
Let's do it.

2007
01:23:39,750 --> 01:23:40,670
I'm always good, brother.

2008
01:23:40,830 --> 01:23:41,450
I'm always good.

2009
01:23:42,110 --> 01:23:43,210
I'll be at work.

2010
01:23:43,290 --> 01:23:44,570
It'll be a lunchtime show for me, but

2011
01:23:44,570 --> 01:23:45,150
I'm good with it.

2012
01:23:45,190 --> 01:23:47,310
So what are the next steps on this?

2013
01:23:47,330 --> 01:23:49,770
Are we just going to keep iterating and

2014
01:23:49,770 --> 01:23:51,590
look at some feedback and come up with

2015
01:23:51,590 --> 01:23:52,110
some stuff?

2016
01:23:52,770 --> 01:23:55,010
I'm really excited about the idea of making

2017
01:23:55,010 --> 01:23:58,990
discoverability better by doing this.

2018
01:23:59,430 --> 01:24:02,050
That now we have something everybody can get

2019
01:24:02,050 --> 01:24:02,430
behind.

2020
01:24:02,590 --> 01:24:04,930
Like, oh, I want to be discovered.

2021
01:24:06,670 --> 01:24:09,170
I think my next step for this is

2022
01:24:09,170 --> 01:24:13,070
going to be, I've got some code I'm

2023
01:24:13,070 --> 01:24:17,250
fooling with right now for this, to make

2024
01:24:17,250 --> 01:24:22,310
this AI endpoint, excuse me, API endpoint, look

2025
01:24:22,310 --> 01:24:23,910
better for normal people.

2026
01:24:24,050 --> 01:24:26,030
Because I think that'll give it more visibility.

2027
01:24:26,590 --> 01:24:27,650
So I've got a little bit of code

2028
01:24:27,650 --> 01:24:28,690
I'm going to finish with that.

2029
01:24:28,910 --> 01:24:30,470
And then I think my next step on

2030
01:24:30,470 --> 01:24:33,010
this is to break out a pencil and

2031
01:24:33,010 --> 01:24:36,270
paper and just try to draw out a

2032
01:24:36,270 --> 01:24:38,990
concept of how all this stuff links together.

2033
01:24:39,970 --> 01:24:42,250
And then I'm just going to start posting

2034
01:24:42,250 --> 01:24:45,550
some feedback in the socials and everything.

2035
01:24:45,550 --> 01:24:47,750
And maybe we can try to come to

2036
01:24:47,750 --> 01:24:49,770
some sort of consensus on where to begin.

2037
01:24:50,150 --> 01:24:50,870
How about you, Alex?

2038
01:24:50,990 --> 01:24:52,170
What are your next steps?

2039
01:24:53,330 --> 01:24:55,650
I'll probably work on the podcasting side and

2040
01:24:55,650 --> 01:24:57,190
think about how it might look in that

2041
01:24:57,190 --> 01:24:57,450
end.

2042
01:24:57,630 --> 01:25:00,130
And we can meet in the middle.

2043
01:25:01,090 --> 01:25:02,030
Yeah, sounds good.

2044
01:25:02,170 --> 01:25:02,450
Wow.

2045
01:25:02,590 --> 01:25:03,750
Well, we have consensus.

2046
01:25:04,350 --> 01:25:05,670
Who's doing the meeting notes?

2047
01:25:07,110 --> 01:25:08,390
It's AI, of course.

2048
01:25:08,750 --> 01:25:09,770
Of course it is.

2049
01:25:10,150 --> 01:25:12,050
Hey brothers, very, very Merry Christmas to you

2050
01:25:12,050 --> 01:25:12,330
both.

2051
01:25:12,530 --> 01:25:14,330
And thank you for all that you've done

2052
01:25:14,330 --> 01:25:15,890
once again this past year.

2053
01:25:16,810 --> 01:25:17,490
Merry Christmas, bro.

2054
01:25:18,090 --> 01:25:18,850
Merry Christmas.

2055
01:25:19,470 --> 01:25:20,990
Boy, that sounded so demure.

2056
01:25:21,150 --> 01:25:21,950
Merry Christmas.

2057
01:25:22,170 --> 01:25:23,390
Hey boys and girls, Merry Christmas.

2058
01:25:24,270 --> 01:25:25,970
Have a good one, everybody.

2059
01:25:26,070 --> 01:25:29,090
We'll be back next week, right after Christmas

2060
01:25:29,090 --> 01:25:46,130
with more Podcasting 2.0. Podcasts

2061
01:25:46,130 --> 01:25:46,650
are cool.

2062
01:25:47,330 --> 01:25:51,450
You have been listening to Podcasting 2.0.

2063
01:25:51,590 --> 01:25:55,290
Visit podcastindex.org for more information.

2064
01:25:55,650 --> 01:25:57,090
Go podcasting!

2065
01:25:57,910 --> 01:25:59,610
Hey, that's pretty gosh darn good.