Podcasting 2.0 for November 7th, 2025, episode
241, RSS Nutjobs.
Hello, warriors.
Always wanted to say that.
Hey, podcast nerds, it's time for the board
meeting of Podcasting 2.0. That's right.
This is where everything that's happening in podcasting
gets discussed, and then some, even some philosophy
from time to time.
We are, in fact, the only boardroom that
moves mountains without lifting a finger.
I'm Adam Curry, here in the heart of
the Texas Hill Country, and in Alabama, the
man who is now well-known everywhere.
Say hello to my friend on the other
end, the one, the only, Mr. Dan Jones.
I'm dot well-known.
That would have been better, the man who
is dot well-known.
Oh, crap.
I almost want to do it over, but
I won't.
Dot well-known.
I always try to catch you off guard,
and you're too fast for me.
You never get tripped up by a sudden
rip.
You know, so yesterday, I tried something.
Let me see if I can play it
for you.
Hold on a sec.
We did, you know, we do no agenda,
and it always starts with Dvorak saying, hit
it.
And let me see if I have it
here.
Yeah, so we said, hit it.
And I did this.
Adam Curry, John C.
Dvorak.
Next Thursday, November 6, 2025, this is your
award-winning Gitmo Nation Media Assassination, Episode 1814.
Whoa, what?
This is no agenda.
Who's that?
Slinging slop and broadcasting live from the heart
of the Texas Hill Country in FEMA Region
Number Six.
In the morning, everybody, I'm Adam Curry.
Who is that?
That is the Eleven Labs version of Adam
Curry.
That's horrible.
It's so odd, because you can prompt it
like three times with the same text, and
it comes up with different versions.
That's the problem.
It comes up with different versions every single
time.
There's no consistency.
Yeah, it's like the temperature or whatever.
Yeah, well, and they have their new version
three model.
You can add tags in parentheses, so you
can say excited or intense.
Oh, or a surfer.
No, I haven't tried surfer.
But I think there was, at one point,
I had like one sentence, and I'm like,
that sounds exactly like me.
And what's interesting is I sampled it from
the No Agenda show.
So it has all my compression, and it
has all of that built into it, which
is really interesting.
Somewhere there must have been a little bit
of a sound or a music bed or
something, because that pops up from time to
time as part of my voice.
Like a Manhattan project, where you've got a
head sticking out of the ship or something.
It's hallucinating while it's doing the generation, which
is just a problem, because there's no consistency.
You can't really use it for anything.
It's annoying to me with 11 laps, because
you find something that's almost just right, and
then if you regenerate it again, you get
something completely different.
Completely different.
Yeah.
You're like, man, that was so close.
If I could take the first part of
that and just tweak this one thing, but
you'll never get it back.
It's a goner.
That's the other problem.
You can't get it back.
You can't like...
Yeah, let me see.
So if I do fast and excited...
Let me see.
Hold on.
Okay.
So I did fastest and excited as some
of the prompts here.
Let's see if this works.
Okay.
Here we go.
Short one sentence.
Hi, Dave.
How cool is the chapters in Apple Podcast?
Gross.
That's horrible.
Let's try the other version.
Hi, Dave.
How cool is the chapters in Apple Podcast?
Hyperventilating.
Is that one of the tags you use?
No, just let's try excited again.
Let's try a different version.
Hi, Dave.
How cool is the chapters in Apple Podcast?
Hey, Dave.
You put boner as one of the tags,
didn't you?
Let me do...
What shall I do?
Give me another...
What should we say?
We'll do...
Catastrophizing.
Intense.
Let's see what happens if I do intense.
All right.
Prepubescent ad.
Let's try this one.
Let's see what pops up.
Hold on.
Here we go.
Hi, Dave.
How cool is the chapters in Apple Podcast?
Gross.
But do you hear my room?
Do you hear the echo of my room?
It's all in there.
That's the part that I find interesting.
Hi, Dave.
How cool is the chapters in Apple Podcast?
No.
That's so terrible.
Let me try sexy.
Let me try that and then we'll quit.
Just want to try that last one.
Here we go.
Hi, Dave.
How cool is the chapters in Apple Podcast?
Oh, man.
Are you turned on now or what?
Hi, Dave.
Wait for this one.
Hi, Dave.
How cool is the chapters in Apple Podcast?
That's a keeper.
I'm saving that one.
Yeah.
Hey, Dave.
I love the subtle addition of vocal fry.
That's so gross.
I'm crying.
I'm literally crying.
Hold on.
I'm going to save that one.
Hi, Dave.
How cool is the chapters in Apple Podcast?
I'm crying.
That is flaming too.
This feels just like getting hit on.
But that's my point.
That probably costs 11 labs $80 or something.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
You just heated up a GPU for 20
minutes.
What is the future of this going to
be?
What is it going to be?
I mean, if I could at least get
it to consistently reproduce that gay, sexy voice,
that would be cool.
But there's no I don't think there's any
way to say, yeah, this one, these settings,
because I haven't found it because say, this
is it.
This is this is exactly what I want.
Which is which is weird, because it's like
the the.
At its core, an LLM is completely discreet,
it's it's what do you call it?
Deterministic, like if you have the temperature at
zero and you don't introduce any randomness, it
should literally give you the same output every
time.
But nobody does it that way because it
drops the illusion.
Right.
And that's what they and the whole thing
is built on illusion is smoke and mirrors.
And if you don't have the the the
the randomness, then you don't get you don't
start to feel the magic that this thing
is actually a person.
Quote, unquote, magic.
Well, here I gave.
How cool is the chapters in Apple podcast?
OK, so so that's now now because there's
one slider, creative or robust.
And it says if you put it all
the way on robust, it should be precise,
stable and predictable.
Hi, Dave.
How cool is the chapters in Apple podcast?
OK, so does it actually give you the
same thing every time now?
Well, let's try something else.
Hi, Dave.
OK.
Future.
People, I can't spell.
I mean, you're going to be able to
do before if you keep getting better at
this, you're going to be able to produce
like a couple of thousand episodes a week
of this and just get in on that.
I don't think on that money train, on
that dynamic ad insertion money train.
Oh, yeah.
OK, here we go.
See if it comes out predictable.
OK, new one.
We've got something new.
Here we go.
Hi, Dave.
In the future, people will thank Adam Carolla
for podcasting 2.0. Yes, they will.
I should say 2.0. OK, now let's
try that again.
See if it's consistent.
Hi, Dave.
No, it's not in the future.
Adam Carolla for podcasting 2.0. And it
gives me two versions again.
Hi, Dave.
In the future, people will thank Adam Carolla
for podcasting 2.0. What is that?
This sounds like a multiple personality disorder.
That was two different people in the same
voice file.
I love the opening.
Hi, Dave.
And then it goes into something totally different.
And that's and that's the problem.
That's that is if you could reproduce my
voice the way I think it's it sounds
good enough predictably, that would be fine.
Well, that one started with like a like
a horny gay guy and ended up with
Sam Elliott.
It was completely different from start to finish.
Let me hear that one again.
Hi, Dave.
In the future, people will thank Adam Carolla
for podcasting 2.0. See, that last part
is pretty good.
Yeah, but you have to suffer through the
beginning to get to the end.
I don't know what to make of it.
Hey, anyway, isn't that nice?
We knew we kind of knew it was
going to happen, but it's nice that it
happened.
It's just all I care about really is
seeing podcast colon chapters.
Yes, it's a it's a beautiful implementation.
Just I mean, it's just as elegant and
nice as transcripts.
Yeah, I really think I mean, they did
a good job and and I've got questions,
you know, about the implementation and how it's
going to roll.
Well, isn't that how it's like how it's
actually going to deliver?
Isn't it the same as transcripts that you
have to go in and explicitly tell them
you want to use your chapters?
Yeah.
Which which how do I so I have
a couple of shows on RSS.com and
it just says submit everywhere and you click
on the boxes you want it to submit
to.
And I have no Apple Podcast Connect for
my RSS for we get to do this,
for example, my podcast.
I don't I don't have a Apple Podcast
Connect login.
I even I don't even think I can.
I know what my credentials are for for
my original Apple Podcast Connect.
So how do I do that?
How do I go in the last time
you when's last time you logged in to
Apple Podcast Connect?
Maybe let me see 20.
It was trying to figure out what year
it was.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Show 1000.
I think around show 1000 of no agenda
because I switched away from Mac when they
started screwing up USB.
They had this whole period where USB was
pretty broken.
Yeah.
And so that has to be.
2010, 2011.
Who spends more time tweaking your Apple podcast
account, you or Ted?
Well, well, case in point, podcasting 2.0.
I never added it to Apple.
We don't even know who did that.
I don't know.
Whoever whoever did that, could you please turn
on chapters and transcripts?
And so my next question is the way
our cloud chapters work.
The ones that I do is I put
in one chapter to start with just one
chapter marker and then Dreb Scott like that.
And then Dreb Scott goes in when he's
listening to the show and then he adds
the chapters.
And so it really can take anywhere from
10 minutes to five days, you know, whenever
whenever he gets to it.
Does that refresh on Apple podcast?
Does it update?
Do they even accept it if it's only
one chapter?
These are the things that I don't know,
but it's kind of critical because I think
there's also people.
Well, no, I know there's people who are
crowd crowdsourcing their chapters and they add over
time as kind of like the old.
What was that music service that I guess
is still around?
What's the.
My SoundCloud SoundCloud, yeah, SoundCloud, you know, you
could comment and it would, you know, put
a little marker, basically a chapter marker in
the timeline of your SoundCloud SoundCloud player.
So I know there's some implementations of that.
I think no agendashow.net might have a
version of that or had it at one
point.
SoundCloud comments is what it is.
Yeah.
So does that carry through?
Does that update?
Do they cash it?
I mean, these are the questions I have.
That's a good question.
You're welcome.
Thank you for delivering.
Yes, I like I like asking good questions,
sound good questions, but I really don't know
what the but ultimately doesn't matter.
That's their implementation.
I'm just tickled that there's been so much
negativity around this ragtag group of this orchestra
of monkeys that has been working on this
for five years now.
We're in our sixth year and, you know,
the Apple hasn't implemented any of it.
In fact, I was I was I had
to repent for this, but I will play
it anyway.
In the super secret, super secret WhatsApp group.
Oh, yes.
This this thing that I always hear about.
Yeah.
So, you know, the feed the podcast, the
feed closed.
Oh, did it?
Yeah.
I think Elsie left Lipson and I'm not
I'm not sure what happened.
It doesn't really matter.
I mean, but they were they had a
couple of very negative episodes about if you
recall, we discussed it here in the board
meeting.
Oh, you had a person you had a
chat with.
Oh, yeah.
I had a chat with him.
Yeah.
I remember he was he was.
Yeah.
I'm hiring a dedicated podcasting 2.0 person
who I have not seen yet on the
mastodon, but I'm sure it's coming any day
now.
Any day now.
So I posted one day after Apple announces
its second major tag adoption from our ragtag
group.
The feed folds a quick flashback clip.
And yes, and yes, I know that Rob
poopooed podcasting 2.0 because Apple doesn't support
it.
Oh, I had to repent.
That was unnecessary.
The.
And James on Power Power said this is
not a success story for.
I heard that.
He's like, what are you talking about?
This is not a win.
But in the same show, he basically said
that he wrote it all up and then
Apple made his implementation.
So congratulations, James.
Good job.
Good job, James.
Somewhere in all this pod love, I think,
is forgotten.
You know, this is this is iterations upon
iterations.
It's not like it's one person or one
thing, you know, pod pod love is the
redheaded stepchild of chapters.
Yeah.
I feel sorry for those guys because they
were so they were so early with a,
you know, with a with with a format
that was able to be more easily dynamically
updated and people just always ignored them.
It's not fair.
But no, it's not.
It's not.
You know, but I don't really care about,
quote unquote, a win or anything like that.
I mean, it's like, who cares?
But the thing that the thing that I
that that I like the fact that it's
just it's just like the transcript you get,
it's the right way to do it.
It's the right way to do it.
I don't want I care nothing about people
just like following our spec and saying, well,
it's only valid if you only implement the
spec and don't do it in any other
way.
That's that's like I don't understand anybody who
would feel that way.
What what they've done is the thing that
makes a lot of sense for their customers,
of course, and for their listeners.
And I wish every Molly, I just wish
that every app had the ability to do
this.
But it's expensive.
Oh, you know, exactly.
And it reminded me of early on.
We were talking about cross app comments and
Martin.
Remember Martin from Pod Friend, one of the
one of our early warriors who got taken
out, you know, had taken out by the
Swedes who attacked Denmark and took him out.
I'm not sure what happened exactly.
Yeah.
Era right through the chest.
Yeah.
Poor guy.
But, you know, he had he had that
idea.
You know, he said, hey, if we're going
to do cross app comments, I want to
make sure that that it's that everybody can
comment on every podcast that they can get
in pod friend when he had the right
mindset.
But there was no there was really no
way to facilitate that other than him just
running his own comment server.
And that's that's obviously going to be pretty
overbearing.
And that doesn't seem to be any any
real motivation for it at all.
I think the cross part was more exciting
than the comment part.
And we have so many cross platform kind
of things happening.
My my read on my read on what
Apple is doing, and I want to make
some commentary about just Apple podcast and what
the team is.
OK, let me announce you that.
Hi, Dave.
OK, go ahead.
Can you never again?
I'm banning that from the show.
I can't help it.
It's not in my system.
It's in my system.
I want to I want to see what
Apple podcast auto generates for chapters for this
based on all of that.
Hi, Dave.
It's going to have like a third host
in here.
And I'm kind of, you know, third voice
speaker, speaker three, speaker three.
Yes.
But in general, I think that James may
have missed the point.
I feel like he may have missed the
point in the same way that he missed
the point about the podcast TXT record, you
know, in the last couple of years, Apple's
podcast team has added more podcasting namespace, more
podcast namespace tags than they have iTunes namespace
tags.
And let me just stop you there for
a second, because Daniel J.
Lewis is saying something in the troops are
in the boardroom.
He's saying, well, you know, they already had
chapters that this is this is not the
point.
The point is the namespace recognition.
That's what matters to me once.
I mean, we are in the door now.
The namespace is in Apple's ecosystem.
That is much bigger than how it surfaces
on the top.
In my mind, you're in your thoughts.
I do your thoughts.
This is this is this is my this
is my point to this is my point.
Exactly.
You you echo you echoed my thought process,
which is it's what the bigger takeaway from
this is not a particular feature, any one
particular feature.
It's that.
And I made this point when when podcast
when Apple podcast adopted podcast TXT record for
verification purposes.
The to me, the bigger thing this says
is that Apple is now looking to adopt
a community, a an open source community focused
approach to their feet, to their features.
They they're saying for for all these features
we're doing in the past, we would just
do something proprietary and we would just do
it and we would just shove it out
there and say, here's what we're doing.
Everybody has to adopt this.
Yeah.
Yes.
They're not doing that anymore.
Right.
What they're doing now is they're saying, OK,
here's a feature we want to implement.
Is there already a community based, an open
source prior art, if you will?
Maybe not the right use of the term,
but is there already an existing open source
namespace standard that we can that we can
join into this thing that we're already doing,
that we're one that we want to do
so that we're both so that we get
to do the feature the way we want
it to be and at the same time,
stay compatible with what the community is doing.
Yeah.
The open source.
And to me, that is a sea change
in the way it is.
It is.
It's saying, OK, we're we we are going
to listen and we're watching what is happening
in the in the open source RSS world.
And we're going to make sure that what
we do also plays nice with what you
guys are doing.
You can't overlook that.
That's a huge deal.
It is.
It's a huge deal because that that gives
us confidence as as open RSS, you know,
just are just RSS.
Don't say open RSS.
I don't.
Yeah, that just gives that gives us as
confidence as RSS.
Tinkerers and tinkerers, RSS tinkerers, vibe coders and,
you know, and crazy experimenters to know that
what we're doing, we're not just writing a
spec in a vacuum and then throwing that
out there and in like pod love 20
years from now, it's still not going to
be, you know, ever be acknowledged.
No, it what it changes my focus to
say, OK, let's make sure these specs that
we're working on are super tight.
And I've got some idea, you know, I've
got an idea about that in regards to
the chapter spec that I want to talk
about.
OK, well, why don't we launch?
Yeah, right.
Eric PP, RSS nut jobs.
Yeah, nut jobs.
Show title.
OK, thank you.
But, you know, I think that I think
that's the biggest takeaway.
And it was, you know, I was listening
to Accidental Tech this week and Marco made
a I was I noticed that he had
made a comment about the chapters.
Oh, what did he say?
I mean, nothing specific, but but one thing
he said is he said, well, he said
he's he said that Spotify's podcasting surge over
the last few years has.
He credits that Spotify getting into podcasting with
lighting, you know, lighting a fire under Apple
podcast team.
I think that's probably fair to say.
I completely disagree with that.
I don't think that has anything to do
with it.
I really don't think that.
I don't think that the Apple podcast team
cares much about what Spotify is doing.
I mean.
Because it's not that sort of relationship.
The Apple podcast and Spotify are not really
competitors.
Now, Apple Music and Spotify are competitors.
You know, that's true.
YouTube and Spotify are competitors.
There are they.
Spotify has natural competitors.
But I think Apple podcast is way out
on the edge of what you could call
competition from Spotify.
I don't think that I do not credit
Spotify with pushing Apple podcasts to make a
bunch of changes or make or add a
bunch of new features.
I credit a reinvigoration of RSS.
Well, I'd much I'd much rather credit that
for sure.
But I'm not.
The funny thing is when who was the
guy that was running the podcast group before
he left to create that dynamic news service?
Which I don't know if that went anywhere.
Oh, Spooler.
Yeah.
The Spooler guy.
I forgot his name.
Spooler CEO.
Is it John John?
No, it's a Spooler dot FM Boggs.
They go.
James Boggs.
Yes, that's it.
I had this big chat with him.
Yeah.
And you told him subscriptions were stupid.
Yeah.
Well, that was their whole focus.
I said, dude, look at everything we're doing.
Look at all the join the train.
And I mean, come on, subscriptions is not
making a dent in an Apple's bottom line
at all.
If anything is probably more hassle for them.
You know what I mean?
So it's just the customer service or customer
support, if any.
I just I.
Well, it's always the bear in the in
the in the boardroom is saying Spotify and
Apple podcasts are competitors in Europe.
When people are thinking about finding a new
podcast, they go to Spotify, they go to
Spotify.
But see, I've got to clear this up
right now because this is going to be
a misunderstanding of what I'm saying.
That's not what I mean when I say
competition.
I'm talking about financial competition.
Apple podcast is not a money making endeavor.
I am.
All right.
I'm with you.
I'm all in on that then.
Yes, I'm all in.
Apple podcasts could have never added another feature
for 20 years and they would still just
continue to exist inside of the Apple fortress
forever because it's not a it's a profit
center for Apple in that regard.
Spotify is not their competitor.
What what Apple podcast is is unique.
Really, in the in the whole.
In the whole, you know, the whole world
of of media and mobile devices and that
kind of thing, it's a very unique animal.
And and what I'm what I'm saying is
I think Apple podcast team has caught over
the last few years has caught the fire
of just a renewed vigor inside of RSS.
You know, feature development, because I'm not it's
not it's not just us, it's every it's
there's there's new stuff happening outside of just
podcasting.
No, but that's hard to believe now.
But but like there is a there really
is a renewed focus over the last five
years in now.
Now you could say, OK, now you could
say is this may be a.
This may be true.
That Spotify came in and wanted to make
everything proprietary and suck in and almost go
to war with with with RSS.
And that spurred people to want to make
open alternatives in open namespaces and that kind
of thing.
And therefore, that may have sparked the fire
that then bled over into teams like Apple
podcast to say, OK, now look at all
this stuff going on in the RSS community.
We can take some stuff from that and
we can participate with that may be true,
which is in an odd way.
It is exactly the way Steve Jobs started
the podcast journey because he invited me to
come speak with him privately for an hour.
And he and he was interested in community
stuff.
He wanted to know how we were recording.
Were we using Max?
What were the issues?
How about storage bandwidth?
All he had all of these questions, including
how to make money.
And literally the only thing he wanted from
me was for me to say, yeah, that's
cool, Steve.
Put it into iTunes.
It was already in there, but he didn't
need to have my permission.
And he knew that, but he saw the
community drive.
And I think that was unique, maybe at
that moment in time.
For him or for Apple, certainly, so I
like that.
And if you look at the original iTunes
spec, there's, you know, there's all kinds of,
you know, my name's in there.
Dave Weiner's in there.
There's some historical pieces in there as they
added to their, you know, as they added
the iTunes namespace.
So somewhere it's still in there.
Hold on a second.
I got, I got to do this.
Hold on.
RSS is okay.
Let's try this.
See how this sounds.
You're at full on addicted now.
RSS is in their DNA.
Yeah.
It's not very sexy.
Charlie Rose.
Yeah.
Not very sexy, but yeah.
So it's still in their DNA.
And I think we revived these molecules and,
and I think it's exciting them.
Honestly, I think it's exciting them because they
need to go, they need to, um, they
need to present I'm sure to some Starfleet
command, like, Hey, we're going to spend resources
on this and we're going to do this.
And for them to be able to say,
well, look at, uh, the adoption rate and
there's hundreds of thousands of feeds that are
already using this tag.
Thank you.
Buzzsprout RSS.com.
Um, who else is a blueberry.
Yeah.
Blueberry.
Um, is, is, uh, is, is pod bean.
Are they on board pod bean?
Yeah.
Pod bean.
And, uh, who else am I thinking?
Yeah.
So thank you.
I mean, that's, that's really what, what made
it, what makes it all work is when
the hosting companies go, okay, we're going to
add this, that real, that's what makes it
all happen.
And so they can, they can say to
their, to their, uh, uh, to their next
level of management, look, there's, there's a, there's
a, there's an opportunity here for us that
we can take advantage of and we want
to spend our cycles on this.
And I'm sure that's how it gets approved.
And I love that.
I think my, my take on my read
on, on Apple in this regard is that
every, you know, the people at Apple, the
employees at Apple, the executives, they listen and
love pod.
They listen to and love podcasts and they
want, and they also are obviously iPhone users
and they want their product that they use
every day to be better, to have a
top notch podcast player built into it.
And they know it's not going to make
a, they know it's not gonna make money,
but it's, it's what they want for their
own product to be.
It would feel, it would feel like less
of a product if Apple podcasts was not
there in it.
And I think Apple podcasts, that's the role
they play within Apple and within the device
is that it makes the, they feel like
it makes the device more valuable and more
valuable.
Yes.
And more valuable and they themselves use it.
So that's when I see them developing these
features, that's what, that's what it feels like
to me.
It feels like they're developing it for themselves
first and you can't just, you can't just
live in a vacuum.
All right.
Listen to me, Apple podcast team, wouldn't you
love to support a podcast by hitting a
button that says support this podcast?
It could either, it could either go directly
to the place where the podcast puts it
and the URL and the funding tag, or
think of this, it could integrate with Apple
pay.
Wouldn't you love to be able to do
that?
Wouldn't that feel good?
Develop it now.
It's in your DNA.
Hi Dave.
Yeah.
I think you convinced him.
I mean, that's a, that was such a
natural pitch.
Ted is there and he's like, all right,
I'm on it.
I've got my deck ready.
No, he feels like he got cornered in
the elevator by some creepy guy.
I wish we could have Ted or someone
from the team on the show.
That would be so much fun.
I know.
I've, I've asked, I don't think that that's
going to happen.
Did you even get a reply?
You didn't get a reply.
Yeah.
I got a courteous, I got a courteous
reply.
Yes.
Oh, which was like, uh, maybe not this
year.
Yes.
It was, it was, it was a courteous,
uh, you know, demure, a courteous, no, no,
but that's, yeah.
And I'm, I'm, I think that it's, I
think I got encouraged by this in just
a different way.
I mean, and that my questions about it
are, are this, if I have, if I'm
subscribed to a, if I'm subscribed to a
feed that's private, um, then like a subscription
only feed, do I, do I get transcripts
and chapters also in that?
I don't know.
I mean, am I going to get those
chapters?
Say that again.
So if, if I have a private feed,
like something like a members only thing where
you get one of the special feeds just
for you, will that also get chapters?
Because this is, I've mentioned it before.
My biggest pet peeve is that I pay
for two podcasts from Twit for my job,
security now and windows weekly.
I'm a member, I'm a Twit member, uh,
paying for the, for that reason.
But I, I still don't get chapters and
transcripts and the whole point of having the
whole point of them not having chapters is
they don't want you skipping the ads, but
I'm not, I don't get the ads anyway.
Right.
So give me chapters.
I want this desperately because sometimes, Oh, you
just have to wade through, you know, an
hour of content that you don't care about
to get to, you know, to get to
the parts that are relevant to you.
And it's just painful.
Sometimes, you know, on a three hour podcast,
trying to find out, you know, where to
go.
It's that, that's my first question.
And then my second question is what you
said is how does it update if the
chapters are dynamically changing?
Is there an update mechanism that happens?
That's, that's, and I do have this now,
the, the comment about, um, yeah, and
yeah, I know that Nathan, I'm just saying
that like the Twit members only feeds don't
have ID three chapters.
They don't have any chapters at all.
And I'm hoping that the Apple podcast app
will done could auto create them.
So that's what, that's kind of what I'm
hoping for.
But so the question arises about dynamically inserted
ads and the chapters file staying in sync
with that.
Oh yeah.
That's a big one.
Like if you have, if your show has
set slots in it that get filled, then
that's not as big of a deal.
But if it's not, if it can have,
uh, if it can have that, you know,
slots that don't always get filled, then, uh,
what James said is right is sometimes you're
going to get, sometimes you could get a
chapters file that doesn't necessarily match the enclosure
you are delivered.
Right now, you know, if your chapters are
in this, this affects all chapters except MP3
embedded chapters.
But we know that MP3 embedded chapters also
have drawbacks.
So there is no winners here.
There's, there's pros and cons to all of
this.
You know, hold on.
Uh, you, you hit my magic button, man.
Oh, there are no, there's no winning.
We don't like to foster a competitive atmosphere,
but we laugh a lot.
Now everyone hug and share a secret.
Yeah, baby.
Okay.
So let's hug and share a secret.
The secret is I think that we can,
I think that we could tweak this and
make and deliver a chapters URL in an
HTTP header when the enclosure is delivered.
So if we had something like just jump
spitball in here, I just kind of was
thinking about this earlier.
If when the enclosure is delivered, if you
also in that, um, in that enclosure delivery,
if you had a way to say like
X, X dash chapters, URL as a header
with a link to a chapters file that
has been modified to accommodate the, the, the
offsets, the proper offsets for that, for that
dynamically adjusting enclosure, that could be a solution
to it.
Um, I don't know.
I'm curious to see what people think about
that.
Yeah.
I mean, isn't this ultimately a hosting company
issue?
I mean, do we need to fix it
that way?
I mean, first of all, it's an issue
of the, it's an operator issue.
I want dynamically inserted ads.
Okay.
Well pay the Piper.
You've got a problem.
Yeah.
I mean, it's not, it's not a, that
created the problem, not the, not the, uh,
the chapters or the transcript spec.
It was, you know, dynamically insert ads, just
like just threw it in and no one
was thinking about, you know, the downstream effects.
Oh yeah.
You know, that's For somebody like Buzzsprout where
they insert what, so your, your enclosure is
going to get a certain set of ad
insertions stitched into it sort of, sort of
ahead of time.
They can make those adjustments.
And so those chapters files stay in sync.
If you have somebody if you have a
company that's doing just like truly wild west
on the fly, you request an enclosure and
it creates a unique enclosure for you at
that very moment.
That's where it gets difficult.
Um, I don't, I don't know how prevalent
that is over this sort of pre-rendering
of it.
I don't have visibility into that, but you
know, I know that, I mean, I know
it's large and it's, I would have to
imagine that dynamically adjusting the enclosures, just, just
looking at the number of feeds in the
index and which hosts those are attributed to.
Um, it's, I would not say that, I
don't think it's clear that there's one that
happens more than the other.
I don't know.
I don't know what Spreaker does.
I don't know if they stitch it together
at the time that they get request happens
or if they sort of, you know, pre
rent, if they pre-rendered those too, I
don't know.
Um, Nathan's saying something.
He said, the fact I've never encountered a
DAI podcast with ID3 chapters tells me it
will never happen.
Yeah.
You know, that's, that's the thing is that
these, that there is no perfect chapter solution.
The MP3 embedded chapters have drawbacks.
The, you know, Podlove chapters have drawbacks.
Cloud chapters have, uh, 2.0 chapters have,
I mean, they, to me, the, the 2
.0 spec to me at least kind of
hits the middle of the road where there's,
where the pros and cons sort of balance
themselves out in the best way.
I think the other solutions have, have a
con that is more severe than the 2
.0 chapters.
And I think that may be why Apple
decided to go with that spec is because
it really does just sort of kind of,
it, it, it doesn't suffer the, it does
have cons, but they're just not as severe
as the other ones.
And because the, the, the ID3, you know,
the embedded ID3 chapters, those things are a
pain in the butt, you know?
I mean, it's like sticking to embedding images
directly into an audio file.
That's things like that.
And, and just having to do all that,
that, that is, it's not having to re
-encode your audio every time you want to
put a different chapter marker in.
I just, I don't know.
It's just goofy.
So I think that those, um, I think
that that's why, uh, that's why they probably
did that is because the, the, the downsides
are just not as steep, um, in the
absence of a per, of a truly perfect
spec.
Let's, let's, let's, I mean, after, after dealing
with value for value stuff all week, we
can clearly say that there are no perfect
specs here.
Yeah.
No kidding.
But we, but we do have a LN
address now for the index.
I actually, I, uh, I changed it for
our live and I will change it for
the, um, uh, for this episode.
It's podcast index.
I think you need to change the feed
too, Adam.
What do you mean?
It's like in the, the, the value block
in the feed is the channel itself.
I'm not following you.
Cause I was seeing the other day that,
uh, yeah, see, we still have the node
address in the, in the value block that's
in the channel.
Uh, hold on.
Oh, that's a good point.
Well, I, I haven't changed the, I only
changed for this live episode.
I figured this is exactly why I didn't
do any more because I figured Dave will
tell me what to do.
Let me see.
Uh, yes, there it is.
So let me change that.
By the way.
Thank you.
Stephen B, uh, Stephen B now has a
little warnings in, um, sovereign feeds, which I've
been using for years now.
Uh, sovereign feeds.com.
There's a little, there's a little warning next
to each, uh, value block entry and says,
please update to use Ellen address.
Oh, nice.
So I'm going to do that right now.
Ellen address.
And I changed that to podcast index at
get lb.com.
The stay safe sage also needs to change
in there too.
To be me.
What are you?
David get lb.com.
Okay.
Hold on.
There's also Saturn test.
I think Saturn's dead.
Yeah.
Hold on a second.
Uh, what, what is your, your Ellen, your
Ellen address?
What is it again?
David get lb.com.
You're just Dave.
Wow.
Get lb.com.
Okay.
Fixed.
Um, booster gram monitor.
That's I need to change that.
Uh, Dreb Scott needs to change.
Oh, I forget what he is.
I'll check that in a second.
I'll remove the Saturn test.
Cause that's dead.
Yeah.
That's toast.
Uh, fountain boost bot.
I think that's, isn't that boost bot at,
uh, fountain.fm. That sounds right.
Boost bot at fountain.fm. Okay.
So those are the ones I can change
right now.
Let me just double check.
Hold on one second.
What is, uh, Dreb?
Dreb is, uh, Dreb Scott at get lb.
Okay.
That makes sense.
So back here, this is Stephen B.
You've created such a beautiful piece of software,
brother.
I hope this thing always stays in my
life.
So I want, I want to, uh, I'll
briefly like run down what I did this
week.
Okay.
With regards to this.
So I, I initially, I dove in and
I was like, okay, I'm going to set
up a, I'm going to set up an
Albi hub on the, uh, PayPal server.
And then that will connect with our, with
the, with the podcast index node.
Sexy.
And the, for reasons for sysadmin reasons, I
decided not to do that.
Tell me about it.
What it's in your DNA.
I got into it and I could, well,
first of all, I did initially set it
up that way.
And then I found out that you, you
can only get channels to your Albi hub.
Like even if you said I was, even
if you set it up that way, excuse
me, I'm, I'm trying to, I'm trying to
get my thoughts clear.
If you set it up that way, I
was concerned about the security of having that
thing directly linked to our node and also
having an open port on the, on that
server.
Yes.
I don't, I don't understand.
You know, I don't, I don't know what
is going on with, with Albi's code in
the Albi hub.
If it has, if it has a flaw
in it or a vulnerability in that thing's
running directly on our node with a pipeline
into Ellen, into our L not directly on
our node, but directly on our servers with
a backend pipeline to our node, some kind
of vulnerability could just, you know, drain us.
Anything could happen.
Yeah.
Good point.
Yeah.
It just seemed too risky.
So then I went to, okay, okay.
Well, I was like, well, we could do
cloud hosted node with Albi and let them
run the, run the node, the Albi hub.
But then.
Oh, there's all kinds of issues with liquidity.
Yeah.
The liquid, I saw you, you have to
buy a channel.
Yes.
And, and that's, and, and that channel is,
I think initially outbound only, I think.
Yeah.
I don't think it's a balanced channel.
It's all one side.
Yeah.
It's one sided.
You were exactly right by that.
And so I was, I was like, well,
you know, it's, it just really seems like
not cool to have to buy liquidity when
we have a node sitting here with, you
know, with two, you know, two point something
Bitcoin on it.
With a lot, with a lot of liquidity
everywhere.
Yes.
Yeah.
I mean, we have two, you know, we
have a hundred and something channels on this
now.
I mean, we can easily open up a
channel, but it doesn't seem to be an
easy way to do that.
So I was like, well, okay, that's not
going to work.
So I was like, okay, well fallback plan.
I will throw the Albi hub on a
machine that I own and run.
And then buy a channel and then let
that, let those transactions come in.
And then I will just batch send those
over to the podcast index node periodically.
You know, which is, which is fine.
We missed, we were going to miss the
metadata and the boost a gram part of
it.
If things come through that way, but if,
as long as we have splits, we'll still
get that, that metadata info in the, in
the other place.
Yeah.
And I do want to say that as
I've been looking at this, I've been changing
things around.
You can log into strike on their website.
And, and it actually gives you a pretty
nice feed of everything that's coming in.
And, and this is actually in a way
it's kind of like it because if the,
I'll have to log in again.
I guess they log you out after a
certain amount of enact.
Oh, there you go.
If your, if your booster gram is short
enough, it shows up entirely.
So I'm looking here.
So we just got a boost and I
can retrieve that right from this webpage.
And it says a good to see stuff
being worked out.
Are e-booster grams in the masto today?
I'm confident that Oscar, Stephen B, Alex at
all, will come up with a great solution.
Alex's meta-boost proposal seems interesting.
And that was from Sir Libre and it,
and it cut, it cut off the last
bit, which was interesting to me, by the
way, v4vmusic.com.
Now what it doesn't give me is the
overall boost amount.
So I, I could probably reverse engineer it.
So it doesn't show me that it was
22,222 sets.
Yeah.
But I'm going to give you like the
good and all that.
Well, the message comes through just purely as
the message.
I love Eric PP, by the way, everything
is undefined.
Eric PP, that's the same as same as
pod link undefined.
It's like, yeah, he's got undefined in his
DNA.
Um, so that's too bad.
Uh, that, that, you know, the, uh, that
the actual full on amount doesn't come through
by the way, that could of course always
be, uh, put into the message, I guess.
Right.
But we're not that far off.
At least it's coming through and strike, you
know, strike.
And, you know, you see the, uh, fountain.
It still gives you a link.
I see a test boost from, uh, so
fountain is now sending it a little bit
differently.
I'm getting from them.
I'm getting RSS colon, colon payment, colon, colon
boost.
Then I get a URL, which takes me
to the, the actual, almost like the TLV
or all the metadata.
And then I still get the message test
boost, uh, creepy eyes, creepy eyes, creepy eyes.
But I, but see, I don't know that
it's from Oscar.
That should, that should be in the, well,
it's in the header that gets returned.
Um, because he, his, um, like his, his
proposal, um, that he's talking about is a
way for, is a way for apps to
return the boost metadata.
Yes.
Now that, that piece is actually working because
if you, yes, it is, because if you
follow that link, HTTPS, let me just follow
that for a second.
So I'm going to, I'm going to put
that link into the boardroom so people can
see it.
So if you follow that link, see what
happens here.
Um, but actually, yes, it pops up.
Wow.
It even gives you a curl command for
it.
How about that?
Yeah.
And there, and there it is.
Yeah.
Very nice.
Code friendly.
So yeah, if this, now this does not
solve the, you know, the general problem of
how do you, how do you specify a
place to send the metadata?
That's the, you know, we, that's still a
job for some in a neutral way.
I mean, so, so hold on a second,
let me just, cause I'm the dumb guy
here.
So Fountain is, they've specified a place for
their app and their app is fountain.fm
slash whatever, question mark, some more stuff.
So, and they are telling me in the
message, here's where you get the metadata.
So isn't that all I need?
Do I need, why do we need to
specify a certain place you send it to?
If, if my app, if I'm using a
different app and I send, uh, and I
send a boost and that gets stored on
my app server, as long as it has
the same basic structure that you can retrieve
it with, retrieve all the metadata.
Isn't that enough?
Why do we need to spend, does everyone
have to send to the same place?
Is that what you're saying?
The, that's good for Fountain or for apps
that are going to host that, that are
going to take on the hosting of this
data themselves.
But if you're an app that doesn't, where
do, where did they send it?
That's the question.
Like where?
Dev null.
Dev zero.
The, so if you, if you're an, if
you're an app that wants to support sending
boosts and you just are going to, and
you've decided that you're going to link, and
let me, I'll paint the hypothetical here.
You are, um, uh, you're, you're an app
that has decided that you want to just
link to somebody's strike wallet and that's what
you're going to use to send boosts.
So you're not supporting key send out of
the gate because strike doesn't do that.
You're just an, you're just calling their API.
You make, you do an OAuth link over
to strikes wallet.
And so now you have a, now you
have a linkage there and people listening to
podcasts can send, uh, can send boosts to
other users as long as they have an
LN address.
You are an, a device only app.
You don't have a backend.
So you're not going to be able to
host payment metadata.
I got it.
How, so what we need and what, what,
what Oscar has given us is a way
to present it back to give a URL
that will then return the, the data, the
return, return the metadata in a way that
we can all read from the HTTP header.
We also need some, a complimentary spec that
will define in the feed where the metadata
can be sent.
So this hypothetical app that, that locks into
strike, I see, can send the boost and
then also read the feed and say, here's
a, here's an API endpoint that I can
send this boost metadata with it.
Would that not be a function of your
hosting company or your hosting set up then?
Uh, could be, or it could be a
third party.
Right.
You know, uh, Albie could choose to host
it or fountain could host it for other
providers, for others.
Right.
They could do a third party deal.
Um, this could be, or you could run
your roll your own.
Uh, maybe it could even be put into
helipads somehow.
Yeah.
So it could, as long as we have
an A an open API, the meta boost,
uh, spec is what Alex has been working
on.
When that, when that spec gets to be
mature, then we, then I think what we
have is all the P all the, we
got all the pieces of the puzzle.
We have a place to send the metadata
and then using Oscar spec, we have a
consistent way to retrieve it.
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, so what we're doing here is basically
reinventing Nostra.
I don't think so.
That's not the way I read this at
all.
No, no, no.
But you could use, you could use a
Nostra relay, I guess, technically, if it had
an API for it.
Uh, I mean, fountain already does.
They've already published the spec for how to
do that.
Yeah.
Right.
But so, yeah, but no one wanted to
do that.
Am I just understanding that correctly?
So basically the idea of storing it on
Nostra, everyone went, nah, I don't think so.
So now just to summarize, Alex is working
on a MetaBoost API spec.
Yes.
Okay.
And so that will be, right.
So, and so that's something that I could
either roll my own cause I'll vibe code
that in a day, uh, or third, you
know, I can see Spurlock creating something like
that and taking a piece of the split
for it.
For sure.
Yeah.
It's a good idea.
Yeah.
I think this all makes sense.
Which by the way, I would prefer John,
I would, I would much, much rather prefer
giving you some sats and you hosting it
and making it work than me doing it.
But you could be sovereign and do it
yourself.
The, um, yeah, you could.
Yeah.
I think that once, now that we have
an LN address that we can receive things
from, we can actually put in the first
implementations of what this is.
We can put, we can roll the meta.
We can host a MetaBoost spec API, MetaBoost
API server, and then we can publish it
back out using, uh, Oscars HTTP header format.
Um, and I think I will, we will
just, we will host this stuff as proof
of spec.
We, you and I podcast index.
Yeah.
You're going to vibe code it, baby.
Hey, just give me the spec and I'm
done.
You have no idea what I've been doing
so much now that I know what the
heck is happening in my, in my code,
I'm actually getting pretty good at adding a
feature.
I added an entire library system to the,
you know, to the your town live stream
system.
And, and so this, this library, it, when
you go to the page, it extracts all
the metadata.
You can preview it.
It'll tell you where it's scheduled.
You can, you can delete it.
It'll delete all the schedules.
You can search, you can, you can, um,
um, sort by any of the fields, title,
artist, year, duration, folder.
I did that in two hours.
I was blown away.
What is, what is your, what does your
back and forth process look like?
I'm still missing.
This is still mysterious to me.
Oh, okay.
I'm happy.
So I, so the, your town live stream.
So basically this is so everyone understands there's
a streaming portion.
It uses a YAML, a YAML file.
The YAML file tells it what to pull
and the YAML file.
So the, the, that part is, has been
running for weeks and weeks and weeks.
That actually works pretty well.
Um, it's solid.
The management part is what I've really been
working on.
So there's, there's really only one app.
It's a flask app and, uh, the flask
app has end points and the end points
are called by HTML files, right?
So I have manage override library studio.
And so when I, when I go into,
um, to create a new feature, so that
would be the library feature.
I paste these, I use grok exclusively and
I've been using grok expert mode, which I
like because it's costing somebody a lot of
money somewhere and it's costing me nothing.
So I like this a lot.
Um, the grok fast four beta mode.
Don't try that.
Because it, it, after like three iterations, it
starts giving you back just pieces of code.
Anyway.
So here's my process.
I'll say I have a streaming radio server.
Uh, I have a management system that runs
off of this flask app.
I paste the entire code in.
Then I say, uh, I want to add
to, I want to add a page similar
to this one.
I'll paste in the HTML code for actually
one of the like studio, which is just
a, it's a smaller file, paste that in.
And here's what I want it to do.
And then I say, give me the entire
file, HTML file and rewrite the entire flask
app with your changes and do this every
single time that we change something or fix
a bug because I suck at editing in
line and it's confusing.
And then it will spit back quite quickly.
Actually the initial, it'll spit back the whole
flask app.
It'll, it'll give me the HTML file and
then I monitor the log.
And if it doesn't work and this thing
worked very well, almost off the bat.
And so let's say, okay, I like this,
but I want to change something.
I'll say, you know, change this.
And it'll give me back the full, if
it needs to, if it needs to rewrite
the flask app, it'll give me that Python
and the HTML file.
And I just keep doing that over and
over again.
Sometimes if you go on too long, then
it starts giving you back half a file.
It's confused.
And so then I'll just start a new
session and I'll say, here's what I was
working on.
I need to fix this.
And here's the flask app.
Here's the HTML file.
It usually will fix it on the first
go around.
Once you're, you're in this loop and it's
like when you can, you can start to
feel it going towards the, you need to
rebuild your kernel phase.
Or, you know, you need to reinstall Icecast.
No, I don't.
You know, this is the stuff that I've
learned.
Then you just open up a new session
and then it comes back pretty good.
And that's how I do it.
So you put, you paste in your entire
flask app is what you said, but is
it, is it all a single file?
How do you get?
Yeah, it's one file.
It's one Python script.
Okay.
Yeah.
Cause I look at my projects, like I
look at the projects that I build and
I'm like, I have a hundred files here.
Like, how would I even?
Well, you're not very efficient at coding.
Obviously, I don't know what you're doing there,
Dave Jones.
It's like every, you know, you, you, your
classic project layout is, you know, all your
classes are, you know, each class is in
his own file.
Modules just, it just imports stuff.
I have not made any of my own,
uh, modules.
I'm using everything off the shelf.
So let me, uh, let me tell you
how many lines of code this is.
Um, uh, what is the command to give?
Uh, Oh, actually I can, I can do
it differently.
I'm sorry.
I've gotten pretty good at this.
Uh, uh, web UI app, uh, w C
L.
Okay.
1,557 lines.
How many?
1,750, 15 fits a 1,557 lines
of code.
And it basically loads the whole thing into
memory, including the HTML pages.
It's all in there just as good.
And, and, uh, and it runs as a,
as a service.
So if I make a change, I changed
the file and then I restart the service.
Cause I'm interested in this because the one,
the, you know, I run into one of
the things I did this week, which was,
uh, I said last week, I was going
to export all the, the value feeds out.
So I posted that earlier today.
Um, and the, uh, let's see if I
can pull it up.
The exported all the feeds and along with
what hosting company was hosting each feed that
had a value block in it so that
we could get a, a read on, you
know, who needs to be contacted and in
order to change Ellen addresses and that kind
of thing.
So, I mean, this was a, this was
a simple script to write, but, and that's
kind of the issue is sometimes I have
a pretty simple thing I need to do.
And, but actually sitting down to write it
as annoying, you know, it would, I would
love to just be able to, to, to
tell some sort of coding agent exactly what
I want it to do and just let
it, and just do, do it because I'm
like, okay, this is a, this script is
going to be a hundred lines long.
And I just don't want to type all
that stuff because I've got, I've got 10
other things I'm doing at all points of
the day and I just need to get,
I just need to get X, Y, Z
done.
And so if I, I'm like, okay, well,
I need to, I need to start taking
this stuff more seriously and kind of like
playing with it more so I can knock
some of these easy things out.
So I mean, exporting stuff out of a
database, give me an example.
I'm trying to help you.
That's a perfect example.
That's, that's a perfect example that, you know,
what I want to say is, you know,
write, write me a PHP script that looks
like, you know, here, here's a PHP script
that, that I've written.
Write one that looks that in the coding
style of that, that exports all of the
feeds out of the database and, and extracts
the top level domain from the feed URL.
Man, it doesn't.
Have you tried that?
I have not.
Do it.
Now, now I have to say, I chose
Python specifically for two reasons.
One, because I have written a little bit
of Python in my life.
So I kind of understand lots of curly
brackets.
And the other reason is that I know
that most of this stuff is built on
Python.
Most of these LLMs are, there's a lot
of Python code.
So it knows Python.
I'm sure it does PHP fine.
I mean, what you just said is, is
a perfect prompt, but then I would paste
your example code.
And when you say in the style of
this, paste it in there.
Okay.
Do not here, here's where I learned.
Do not drag a file with code into
the box and say, here's the code.
At least it into the prompt.
Yeah.
I paste it into the prompt.
If you drag the file in, you'll, you'll
realize 30 minutes later that I only read
half your file.
I don't have your whole file.
You didn't give me a file.
I didn't see any file.
You had truncate stuff.
Oh.
And so like you, you would do like,
here's, here's a script I already wrote like
colon and then paste it in there and
then continue your prompt.
Colon, new line, paste.
Okay.
New line.
Yeah.
Give it, just paste the whole code in
there.
It's, it's, it's amazing.
Today, the only times I've used it is
for things where, where I'm trying to double
check if I'm, if I have the right
idea about the structure of something.
So I've said, Oh, you're just doing code
check.
You're saying, check it and see if this
is right.
Not even code I've written yet.
I'll have an idea of something.
I'll say, you know, write a rust program
that, that uses fast XML parser to do
something in such and such a way.
And I'm just trying to see if like,
if it can cut, if that's actually even
a valid thought process of how to do
it.
And sometimes it turns, it comes out and
it's like, yeah, that was right.
It can do it that way.
That's really the only time I've used it.
And I haven't, I haven't really gotten into
much else.
So I, I did an experiment the other
day.
I have the web we talked about last
week.
The, you can, what is the thing you
can load an LLM into?
It's called, what is it called?
I'm looking out my, my start nine server.
It's called, come on, Dave, help me out
here.
Free, free, free GPT dash two.
Okay.
So, and that's an app and it runs
on, on my start nine and let me
just open that up and you log in
and it can get you the most recent
llama model and whatever other open source models
there are.
And, and, and this, you know, the start
nine, it's, it's a fine server.
It's certainly more powerful than a Raspberry Pi,
but it's nothing to write home about open
web UI.
That's what it's called.
Yeah.
I have a Mac mini running here at
the house with open web UI on it.
Right.
And so I did the same process and
it spit back perfectly good code.
Okay.
It took 18 minutes, but I got the
code I wanted.
That was impressive.
And that kind of gave me a really
good feeling.
Like the future of this stuff, you know,
is, you know, maybe we just need, I
just need to get an NVIDIA board or
something or whatever, and then get a, and,
you know, set up a little system at
home and, you know, and Bob's your uncle.
Yeah.
But it's, it's funny.
I wonder what the, I'm not going to
pay for anything.
I'm like, I don't think I'll ever pay
for something like Grok, but I would, I
would love to run something on my own
server on this, on this open web UI
server.
I mean, like, I wonder what the best
locally hosted Jeep model is like coding model,
maybe Jim Jim, one of those.
Well, here's what I have.
I have a Lama deep seek and Mistral
and arena.
Apparently there's a new one arena, arena, whatever
that arena model.
That's what's showing here.
I haven't actually done anything with deep seek
with coding.
Yeah.
I haven't used that either.
He's a cotton gin city was to rent
Claude.
Look, I mean, is Claude going to be
released open?
I don't, I thought that was proprietary.
But I think eventually it wouldn't eventually come
to the point where we can pool enough
of our servers together so that we can
encode our own model as a, as a
group.
I've, I've thought about that too.
Like, I feel like we, I feel like
a model could be trained on the, the
index data to do things like weed out
crap feeds, like, like spam feeds.
Wouldn't that be beautiful?
Yeah.
The, um, I, you know, I, I thought
the other day about, um, one of my
buddies sent me a write up about open
AI's CFO and the things she said.
She says a lot.
Yeah.
She's a talker.
Basically saying we, you know, we, we'll never
have enough money.
We need, we need all the money ever
created.
Print more, Scott Besson.
We need money.
Yeah.
And, uh, I was thinking, you know, part,
part of the reason that these, these AI
companies could be buying so many GPUs is
simply to drive the price of GPUs up
so high that the, the average consumer can't
get hold of them.
Because if you got hold of them, you
would realize very quickly that with a decently
powerful GPU, you could run some of these
models yourself and you wouldn't even have to
pay for them.
Hmm.
That's an interesting thought.
I'm not, I don't know.
I mean, if I just want it, let
me go to Amazon.
Let me see if I can buy an
NVIDIA board.
Uh, NVIDIA, uh, NVIDIA AI GPU.
Yeah.
32 gigabyte.
Let's see.
Oh, wait, here's the 500 GP pocket AI.
I don't know what that is.
RTX.
What's, what's the high end model, man?
What's the.
The 50, 90, I think is the current
high end.
50, 90, $2,999 delivery, uh, only three
left in stock by now.
Well, stocks last.
I mean, it's three grand.
Nobody's going to pay.
Nobody.
But if you had a, if the, if
the GPU costs weren't so high, if they
were actually reasonable, they, you could include those
in just normal home PCs and people could
run stuff locally and you wouldn't need Chad
GPT or any of those services.
Well, I was looking at a video, um,
by Antazi, Antazi in tech, who is this
crazy Russian chick.
I think listen to her talk before.
What was meant to take weeks stretched into
months.
Cool.
And it's still.
But she's a real person.
She's actually just talking on camera.
Um, and she's talking about the, um, the
data center that they're still building in, uh,
Tyler, Texas, Taylor, Taylor, Texas.
I'm sorry.
And you know, what happened is, and I'm
familiar, I know people who live in Taylor.
So, and it was, uh, what is it?
Samsung, I think.
No, who is it?
Forget who it was.
Um, uh, who was the other chip maker
anyway?
Uh, so they decided they were going to
build their new fab in Taylor, Texas, which
really messed up the entire town because everyone
immediately put their home up for sale, you
know, cause there was all these people are
going to move there.
Uh, they, they closed their businesses, the restaurants,
everything closed.
Everyone's like, this can be a bonanza.
I'm going to make so much money selling
my shop.
Uh, but it's taken like two years now
because right at the minute that they started
to build this plant, that's when AI took
off.
And so they had to rebuild this entire
plant, uh, to build these two nanometer, uh,
uh, chips.
Now with two nanometer, I mean, this is
such precision laser work that you need, they,
they basically built five New York length skyscrapers
down into the ground to create a stable
environment because the building cannot, they can't be
the slightest rumble or anything.
They built an air purification system that is
five football fields.
Good grief.
Oh yeah.
And it's all, it's all to build AI
chips.
So the investment that is going in to
this, that is enormous.
So it's no, it's actually not 2000, 3000
bucks.
Actually amazing that it's that cheap when you
think about all the investment that's gone into
this.
Um, so I understand those prices, but eventually,
eventually that will come down.
The power, huh?
They built their own power plant, water.
They built their own water purification plant and
recycling plant.
And at the end of it, what do
we get?
We get people that make deep fake porn.
You get this.
Hi Dave.
There you go.
Thank you.
For billions and billions and billions of dollars.
It's over a trillion dollars now.
Trillions of dollars.
But people can make 30 second porn videos.
Yeah.
But I'm, I'm thinking, you know, eventually I
might even splurge and just get one of
these.
You know, I'm not sure what kind of
box I need to put it into.
I'm not even sure.
I've never built a PC.
The CPU is probably, I mean, that's any,
just any decent modern CPU is fine.
You don't need.
Yeah.
But an enclosure, I mean, will it, will
it fit in the, in the box that
I have?
Oh yeah.
I mean, you just get, just get a
ATX, anything ATX form factor will fit it.
Yeah.
So, you know, because running this at home,
that might actually be pretty cool.
I mean, I am paying money, the 11
labs.
I mean, I'm paying real money for that.
I mean, amortize that out over a few
years and then build your PC and save
and run it yourself.
Yeah.
And it just seems more fun.
Now, of course, the question is, can I,
can I train anything?
And that I think is a whole different
ball of wax.
I mean, that seems to building a model
seems to be very, very expensive.
Yeah.
And I'm, I just don't know enough about
it.
I agree with Darren.
How have you never built a PC?
I was a Mac guy.
I, my, my.
Yeah.
I wait, you, you wait, you wasted so
many years on the Mac.
You're telling me.
Dude.
You could be, you should be running a
rig with like, uh, Arch Linux on it
or something right now.
It is, it is, it's really sad.
It really is.
But you know, I, as I said, it
was 10, 11 years ago.
I gave up a Mac entirely that was
disgusted by what they had done.
And this is right after they screwed up,
uh, Final Cut Pro.
You know, they went from Final Cut Pro
7 to 10 or X, whatever, and just
sucked balls.
It was so bad.
Then they had lightning and then, you know,
lightning screwed up with, um, Thunderbolt.
All these, all these formats that were incompatible,
just all sucked.
And so that's when I went to, uh,
to Windows.
And really just, I mean, I only use
Windows for the apps.
I mean, everything else in my life is
Linux.
And again, no need to email me and
tell me that my Roadcaster will work on
Linux.
It won't.
See Dave Jones.
Right.
I can, I can attest to that.
It really won't.
That's because they won't make drivers.
Okay.
I get it.
I get it, kids.
That's fine.
Um, but yeah, I mean, my world is,
is Linux.
Otherwise it's everything.
I mean, I'm, I'm in command line.
I love command line.
You just need to throw your mouse in
the trash and use one of those keyboard
only Linux distros.
But again, if it would connect to my,
uh, to my Roadcaster, I would.
No, I mean, I don't, I don't mean
for your, for the show.
I just mean for like.
Do you know how long I've been using
MUT?
I still have MUT scripts running somewhere on
some server.
Why do you even have a mouse?
Isobot.
You don't even, I mean, if you're using
MUT, you're, you're, you've already, you've already bypassed
the mouse years ago.
And, uh, so, you know, this is a
funny example.
Uh, so when I got mail bombed, uh,
about five years ago, right around, right around
Christmas, and someone spent some actual money.
Uh, to subscribe me to thousands of newsletters
and all kinds of stuff.
And, uh, which is, you know, my adamantcurry
.com has just ruined the idea of me
receiving a newsletter forever because anything that has
the word newsletter or unsubscribe in it goes
to a newsletter box.
But for that, I, I have, I use
IMAP filter, which is a very simple script.
Um, I think it's, it may even be
a show.
I should take a look and see exactly
what it is.
I haven't looked at it in years.
It runs on a five, a $5 Linode.
Um, let me take a look.
Uh, and I remember you sent me a
screenshot of your inbox the day that you
got mail bombed and it was like, I
was bad.
Tens of thousands of emails.
Yeah, it was really, it was really, really
bad.
Let me just see if I can get
in here.
Yeah.
Uh, let me just see what this is.
Oh yeah, here we go.
Okay.
So it's wait a sec.
Here we go.
Um, I don't even know what this is.
What?
It's a binary.
Are you trying to get into your IMAP
filter?
Yeah.
No, it's actually a binary.
There you go.
IMAP filter.
It's a binary.
I should take a look at that.
Uh, user bin IMAP filter.
Oh yeah.
It's very binary.
Woo.
I did.
I cat all over the screen.
Oh man, I'm dizzy.
I'm dizzy now.
That's always followed up with a reset command
on the terminal.
So, um, yeah, and it's a very simple,
uh, it takes a very simple config script
and it just goes through my email every
couple of minutes and just sorts everything out.
So I can literally be looking at my
inbox and which I do a lot.
I'm looking at the inbox.
Now there's something, you know, buy this wine
now.
I'm like, okay, I could click on it
if I want to, or just wait a
minute and it goes away and it's in
the, it's in the, uh, and there's a
couple of other people who have special mailboxes.
There's a couple of people in my life
who like to email me, uh, 15, 20
things a day.
And I love these people.
They have a dedicated bucket.
Yeah, they do.
But the thing is there's out of the
15 or 20, there's always one gem.
So on show days I go in and
I go through everything and let me see
what's going on here.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, that's good.
So, but yeah, so my life has been
more command line than anything, but the mouse
is handy for some stuff.
Yeah.
You need to build your own machine.
You just have to.
Okay.
You got, you got to, it's you, you
would have so, and you, and plus you
would just have so much fun.
I'm going to ask for, um, uh, an
NVIDIA GPU for Christmas.
That will be my Christmas gift.
That will be my, that will be my
Christmas gift.
Yes.
Yes, indeed.
You want to thank some people?
Yeah.
Um, let me take a look.
What I have here on what has come
in on the boost bot, uh, during the
show or come in on the helipad is,
uh, certainly break 22,000 to 22.
I'll read this note again.
Good to see stuff being worked on reboost
the grams in the masto today.
I'm confident that Oscar Steven B.
Alex at all.
We'll come up with some great solution.
Alex has met a boost proposal.
Seems interesting to me, by the way, V4Vmusic
.com.
Yes.
And you know what?
It is wonderful to see this activity taking
place in the masto.
Salty crayon, 1775.
Howdy boardroom.
Got 250 crayon flavors to try on Monday.
Semper Fi to Frischhunden.
To Frischhunden.
Uh, we've got one, two, one, one, two,
three from Lyceum.
That is of course, uh, Oystein Berger, who
will be up next after the board meeting.
I like Chad F's comment on giving shout
out messages to listeners streaming sats.
Oystein Berger of Mutton Meat and Music is
very good at this.
Here are 1123 Satoshis as, at the, as
the start of the Fibonacci sequence.
Yes.
Very nice.
We got a thousand sats in a test
boost from Oscar Mary.
Twice.
Test boost two.
Got it.
Creepy eyes.
And a third one.
So, wow.
We got, uh, like, uh, 3,000 sats
there.
Thank you, Oscar.
Uh, and then I hit the, uh, delimiter
after I read this one quickie.
Just came in from Dreb Scott, 12,345.
One, two, three, four, five.
And he just says, go podcasting.
So thank you.
Uh, we got some PayPal's here.
These are all mixed in.
Cause I didn't have time to print them
as Kevin Bay.
$5.
Thank you, Kevin.
Love that.
Cameron Rose, $25.
Thank you, Cameron.
Cameron's been around forever.
Appreciate that.
Podpage also $25.
That's Brendan and the girls and boys of
Podpage.
Guys stepping up.
Thank you.
Did they change their name to something?
Or is it still just Podpage?
Did they?
I want to say they did a redesign
or something.
I don't know.
Well, hold on a second.
Cause I'm a Podpage customer.
I would think I would know that.
Hold on a second.
I hope I'm not making that up.
No, it's still Podpage.
As far as I can tell.
The podcast website builder.
No, it's still Podpage.
Okay.
I don't know where I got that.
Oh, Martin Lindeskog at New Media.
Uh, $1.
Thank you, Mark.
Mark Graham.
$1.
Thank you, Mark.
$10 from Eugene.
Eugene Chey.
I hope that's how you pronounce it.
C-H-A-E.
I'm going to say Eugene Chey.
Thank you, Eugene.
Appreciate that.
That's a one-time donation.
And Joseph Marocca, $5.
Thank you, Joseph.
Oscar Mary, $200.
Hold on a second, baby.
Thank you.
Beautiful.
$200 and a proposal in the same day.
Oh, man.
Doesn't get any better than that.
Keeping the system running, brother.
Thank you.
Uh, Dave Jackson from the School of Podcasting.
Uh, sent us $25 and he says, can't
let the incoming go below the outgoing.
Dave Jackson.
Thank you, Dave.
How much?
$25.
Thank you, brother.
This is people stepping up.
Very nice.
Yeah.
Yep.
Say, uh, let's see.
Say they're saving the cash flow.
Yeah, they are.
Uh, post, uh, see, we've got some boosts.
Post water Malone's.
It's watermelon, but with an ES.
Post Malone watermelon.
I like it.
Yeah.
Post water Malone's.
That's good.
I like that.
3,500 sats through fountain.
He says, all the sats on my fountain
app.
Whoa.
Oh, you just drained it.
Drained it.
Wallet drained.
Drained it dry.
Yeah.
Let's see.
Uh, Bruce, the ugly quacking duck through podcast
guru says, make the changes.
We as podcasters and listeners will have to
adapt some pain at first, but growth for
sure.
73s.
Lyceum.
Let's see.
I like Chad F's comment on giving shout
out messages to listeners at streaming sats.
Uh, Boise Barrow of mutton, meat and music
is very good at this.
Here are 1,123 Satoshis as the start
of the Fibonacci sequence.
Yeah.
That's the one I just read.
I think.
No, I thought you read the one about,
uh.
No, no, that's the one.
I wasn't paying attention.
I have a 10 minute memory though.
Yeah.
You got a buffer.
That's my buffer.
Yeah.
Well, it was such a good boost.
I read it again.
And the delimiter 15015 through, uh, for chemistry
blogger through fountain.
He says, howdy, Dave and Adam.
Today.
I would like to thank Bumi from www
.getalby.com for his help in the area
of Albie hub to my friend from Alaska
fellow Pomeranian lover.
Lady Vox can be found on Twitter slash
X at, at Bumi and on Fediverse at,
at Bumi at cosmos dot social.
Thank you very much.
Bumi.
Yo, CSB.
Oh, beautiful.
CSB.
So, you know, he yells, he rants, he
raves, but then he, he, he's sweet.
There was a lot of ranting and raving
at Bumi.
You know, I have known comics are longer
for so long, longer than two of my
wives actually.
And, um, and that's just who he is.
You know, it's just how he talks.
And, and I love that our group, cause
he's been kicked out of so many groups.
I mean, I, I, I'm sure he would
hate for me to go into his history.
He's been kicked out of conferences just for
being him and for asking the questions that
he has the way he asks them.
And I love that our group still loves
him.
You know what I mean?
It's like he fits in somehow.
It says a lot about us.
It really does.
I'm, I'm very, I'm very pleased to see
that he has a home in our ragtag
orchestra of monkey of, uh, uh, RSS, not
jobs.
I think this group really has the ability
to let people just be who they are
and move on and just pay attention to
the content.
We might rant, rant a little bit with
each other, but then we do, we do,
yeah, we do move on.
We just like, okay, I'm just going to
move on.
That's fine.
Yeah.
You get it out of your system.
Yeah.
You hit the reset button.
We're good.
RSS, no jobs.com.
Yes.
Ooh, hold on a second.
Hey, hold on a second.
Yes.
RSS not.
I'm wasting your money.
This is a not jobs.com.
This is a good one.
Let me add it.
Boom, boom, boom.
Shaka, laka, boom, boom.
Yes, I got it.
20 bucks down the drain.
Some people go to the boat and gamble.
I buy domain names, RSS, not jobs.com.
Where will I send it?
Where would I send it?
I can't wait to find out.
This show is costing me.
This whole project is costing me money.
Oh, yes, it is.
You are your own worst enemy in that
regard.
I have to save you money constantly.
Oh, this is interesting.
Something went wrong, but don't worry.
I'm fixing to uncover why this panda is
so sad.
What?
Was this on Namecheap?
No, DN Simple.
DN Simple?
Let me try that again.
What a bizarre error message.
It has a picture of a panda.
That's completely unhelpful.
Well, no, it said something went wrong.
This sad panda is going to take care
of it.
Boom.
Okay, I got it.
Oh, I got confetti.
Nice.
Feel good now.
Feel good.
I got confetti.
Pandering software.
Yes.
Did we have any monthlies?
Did we get everything?
Is everything done?
Yeah, that was everything wrapped up.
That's why I read the same boost twice,
because I was trying to reorient myself in
my mailbox.
So, Dave, I think, I don't know what
your plans are this weekend, but...
Tomorrow, I'm going to Atlanta.
Oh, what are you doing in Atlanta?
Another rock climbing competition.
Every week and for the entire month of
November.
Okay.
Well, I'm hoping that you'll have some time
to try out some of Adam Curry's vibe
coding tips.
Come on, man.
Come on.
Give it a shot.
I'm going to read the transcripts and I'm
going to follow the tips.
Yes.
Read the transcript on your...
You're driving, I'm sure, right?
Yeah.
I'll read the transcript and then I'll deploy
tips.
Okay.
All right, brother.
Have yourself a great weekend.
All right, man.
You too.
Okay.
Hey, boardroom.
Thank you very much for being here with
us.
We are moving forward.
We are making history, changing the world.
Don't you feel good?
We'll see you next week on 2.0.
That guy's so cool.
You have been listening to Podcasting 2.0.
Visit podcastindex.org for more information.
Go podcasting!
Why do you even have a mouse?
Hi, Dave.