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Adam Curry: Podcasting 2.0 for
October, 25 2024 episode 198,

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domain experts. Hey everybody.
We're back. It feels like it's

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been a week or two. It is time
for podcasting 2.0 the official

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board meeting of all things
podcasting, everything is going

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on at podcast index on social
and boy, was there a lot going

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on. We got all kinds of cool
things to discuss. We are, of

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course, the only boardroom that
triggers your podcast app split

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alert. I'm Adam curry here in
the heart of the Texas Hill

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Country and in Alabama, the man
who was always compliant with

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FinCEN regulations. Say hello to
my friend on the other end, Mr.

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Dave Jones,

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Dave Jones: let's see Chad F
says, rip, rip. Boost bot. What

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happened to the boost

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Adam Curry: bot? You know, I
don't know. The boost bot ran

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out of channel liquidity, and I
opened a new channel three weeks

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ago, and then somehow, just as
gone, went offline.

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Dave Jones: I don't know who's
in charge. Who's the who's the

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VP in charge of who's the

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Adam Curry: Yes, exactly. Can we
have, can we have some

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accountability please here?
Who's in charge of the boost

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box? It's been down. I mean, I
think it was up for that week

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when I opened up the channel. I
just don't know who's in charge

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of it. Cotton Gin is reaching
out to reaching out. C dubs

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Unknown: reaching out. It's
probably,

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Adam Curry: you know, a
Raspberry Pi somewhere sitting

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in a corner, and, you know,
something went wrong and

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somebody didn't notice. I mean,
that's usually how those things

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go.

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Dave Jones: Got a bad SD card?

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Adam Curry: Oh, man, I, I gave
up on the Raspberry Pi. I really

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had to give up on it. I mean,
that was my first lightning

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node, which is now four years
ago, more than four years ago,

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and a certain point, it's just
like, ah, there was always

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something going on with it.

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Dave Jones: From day one, I
never went the Raspberry Pi rat,

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I always had a real look, a real
box, like a small form factor

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box. I

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Adam Curry: know you've got a
real box, baby.

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Dave Jones: It did not save me
from running out of disc space,

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but it did save me from other
things.

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Adam Curry: Well, then I got the
the Bitcoin machines, which is

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basically a Raspberry Pi in an
enclosure, but it's factory

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built, and, and and then, so you
have to add a an external SSD

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drive to it with a USB. And
that's like, the number one

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thing that Raspberry Pi says
won't work. It's like, don't be

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adding external SSDs because the
power supply can't handle it,

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and there's all these issues.
And I just tried that. Then I

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ordered another one, and they
took my bitcoin money and never

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sent it to me. And then, okay, I
give up on these guys. And then

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I went, start nine, and start
nine. I think I've had to reboot

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it because of an issue once in
over a year, and I don't and it

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was like maybe Tor somehow it
lost the Tor circuit, but it was

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still receiving streaming SATs
and everything. I just couldn't

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get to it. So it could have been
anything else. That thing is

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just rock solid. I love it.

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Dave Jones: The the start nine
is that you have, is that on

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their own hardware. Yeah, on
your own? No, no,

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Adam Curry: they, they sent me
one. Okay, yeah. And, you

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Dave Jones: know, I had a whole
fancy box, or whatever. That was

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just a

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Adam Curry: box, you know, but I
had a whole chat with the CEO,

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and, you know, that's how we got
helipad and all these other

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things starting to run on it,
and, and the IPFS podcasting. So

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it's all, it's all part of the
you know, so we're arm's length,

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arm's length, arm's length, man,
I I have to share this email

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that came in

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Dave Jones: the look at podcast
index. Email, no,

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Adam Curry: it actually came
out. Came into Adam at Curry

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com, okay, and and I read it,
and I and I had to immediately

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forward it to Dvorak, who then
called the guy and got the

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details. Listen to this. Hey,
Adam and John, your latest

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episode. Oxymoronic. Was a
fascinating dive into media

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deconstruction. The mention of
the 1699 club stood out as a

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clever Community Building
Initiative. And I couldn't help

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but think of how Ashley
Matheson, with her 8 million

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fans, would bring a fresh
perspective to the conversation.

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Dave Jones: Oh, this is AI, yes,

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Adam Curry: of course it is. So
I see this because obviously

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that you got the ox, first of
all, you got Adam and John

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somehow from scraping something.
Then you got, yeah, transcript,

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oxymoronic from an episode
title, but then the mention of

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the 1699 Club, which is in the
credits. If someone donates the

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show number, then you then
you're in the 1699 club. So the

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AI interpreted that as a club.
Ever Community Building

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Initiative,

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Dave Jones: not wrong. And

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Adam Curry: so now, of course,
we don't have guests on the

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show. Never had. So okay, so I
send this to John, and now I'm

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like, listen, look at this. Ai
crap. So Dvorak reaches out to

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him, and it turns out this guy
uses something called pod pitch.

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Pod pitch.com, pitch. Listen to
this pitch podcast easier and

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faster than ever before. Stop
wasting time looking for

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relevant and active podcasts.
Pod pitch is the first and only

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PR platform that actually
removes work from your podcast

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pitching, and it's all done with
AI. It's amazing.

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Dave Jones: Save 13 hours per
week and get better results.

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Adam Curry: Get your team on
3.84719193 3,000,847. 193

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podcasts. How many do we have?
This is actually 4.2 Hmm. So

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they, they claim that they have,
what is it? Let me see what it

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is. How

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Dave Jones: are you going to get
yourself on 3.9 million podcasts

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this? This

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Adam Curry: is that's obviously
bullcrap. There's just,

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Dave Jones: there's only,
there's only 440,000 that have

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published an episode in the last
three months.

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Adam Curry: We have every
podcast host name and verified

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email address that's over 3.8
million email addresses. Boy,

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I'm glad we took it out of the
RSS feeds

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Dave Jones: that Okay, wait,
this is boy, this is such a bull

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crap right off. This is so
untrue. 3.8 million verified,

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Adam Curry: verified, verified,
verified, that's right, that's

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that's

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Dave Jones: not even, that's not
even possible. One point over 2

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million of those are going to be
anchor, and they don't have an

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email. They have an email, but
it's a it's an anchor at

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something. It's like it's an
obscured email address that most

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of the time doesn't even work
like that this, this is a

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complete lie to begin with,
because it's not. There's no way

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they verified that many people
listen

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Adam Curry: to all this stuff
they've got. We count each and

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every episode that podcasts
publish in real time, plus the

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length and how frequently they
publish new ones. We count the

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length of every episode and how
frequently, oh, that's the same

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thing. We have real time or
close approximated listener

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count data for each podcast in
the database.

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Dave Jones: Listener count. This
is not what they're claim. What

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they're claiming is not
possible.

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Adam Curry: Yeah, well, they're
using it. They got through to

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me. They got my attention.

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Dave Jones: I wonder. Okay,
here's my best guess at what's

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happening here. Yeah, there I, I
bet you. And I know they're not

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using us, no, but they don't
think they can be because we're

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I would have seen them first of
all, but I think my guess is

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they're using pod chaser. That

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Adam Curry: was my listen to
this. Listener demographics, the

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pod pitch, AI engine. AI engine
access vast listener data, such

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as gender, age, location,
consumer type, consumer type.

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What kind of consumer type are
you? Dave Jones,

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Dave Jones: the one, the one who
eats crappy milk

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Adam Curry: and more. Our in
house, AI engine generates a

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score to match you to every
podcast in our database based on

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your experience and personal
goals. Wow.

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Dave Jones: The reason I say A,
the reason I say pod chaser, is

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because there's only, there's
really only. There's only three

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directories that this, that they
could possibly get stuff like

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this from now. They can't get,
okay, yeah, they can't get email

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addresses from us, but they
could. They could take our dump

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and then go and fetch the feeds
and parse the XML themselves and

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grab, grab all the email
addresses to fill in that hole.

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And that's what we tell people
to do. We're like, we're not

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going to give it to you. You got
to go do the work yourself. And

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they don't, sorry, and but
there's only two other places I

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could think of that this stuff
would that this data would come

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from. One would be listen notes,
yeah, and the other would be pod

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chaser. But I don't, but listen
notes doesn't, to my knowledge,

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give out like any sort of
demographic data that sounds

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more pod chasery to me. Well,
the

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Adam Curry: bottom line is, it's
it doesn't work because they

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pitch an interview to a podcast
that has never had an. View in

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its existence. So the AI is
broken no matter what, no matter

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what.

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Dave Jones: If you're building a
system like that, it seems to me

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that the first thing that you
would do is build into the model

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to try to determine from the
language of the podcast if they

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actually have guests or not
first, I'm just throwing that

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out there, yeah. How

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Adam Curry: does pod pitch work?
We meticulously created the

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world's largest database of
podcasts. Okay? Pitching

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utilizing, oh, here it is, AI
driven messaging, yeah. So they

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go in, they look at the show
notes, and then that's the

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drivel that came out as AI
drivel messaging not driven AI

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drivel. Messaging is this really
AI driven messaging? You send

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tailored pitches via email.
Every email is 100% unique, yet

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uniquely awful. Oh, man, all
right. Well, it says

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Dave Jones: they have, we have
the title and description of

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every active podcast as entered
by the host on Apple podcasts

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and Spotify, as entered by the
host on Apple podcasts and

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Spotify, right? So that's just
your description. That's just

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your description. But it's funny
though, that that they say Apple

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podcasts and Spotify,

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Adam Curry: because you enter
your description there, but

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that's

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Dave Jones: already in the feed.
Why would they what? Why would

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they say, I don't know Apple
podcasts and spot I don't know

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Adam Curry: if we should talk
about this too long. I'm getting

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frustrated. These guys suck

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Dave Jones: this. It's just,
well, it's, at the very least we

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can say they're they're just
spamming pod. Well, they're

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spamming the podcast. And

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Adam Curry: that's okay. I
thought it was just funny. It's

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like, Come on, man. He's like,
you've never listened to the

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show. It's obvious. And then
this AI sent this flowery

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language. So Devorah calls the
guy, and the guy says, You are

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the first people who picked up
on that, it's aI really, yeah,

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Dave Jones: that was obvious to
me within the first sentence,

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Yeah,

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Adam Curry: isn't that cool?

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Dave Jones: This is AI slot.
This way. This is

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Adam Curry: it. This is the AI
slot. That's right, that's

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right. Oh

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Dave Jones: yeah, I was
actually, I was reading Spotify.

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Let me see,

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Adam Curry: let me kick. By the
way, the guy's name

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Dave Jones: is the guy who's

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Adam Curry: Yeah, who sent it is
Brian gross, okay, okay, Brian

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gross, from gross media,

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Dave Jones: big se. I was
reading this, this document on

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that, I think James, I'm pretty
sure James linked to this about

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engineer is from Spotify
engineering, from their R D

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thing. It says the title of
this. Let me grab the URL so I

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can post it over there. The
title is how we generated

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millions of content,
annotations,

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Unknown: annotations,
annotations.

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Dave Jones: Let me post that
over there into the boardroom.

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Yeah. So this, they don't say,
they don't say exactly what this

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is, but this is sort of, this is
how they tag suspect content,

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you know, questionable content
and and it goes through and kind

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of shows their process of how
they built their their system,

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which was interesting to me,
because This is what Todd talks

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about a lot. Where they, they
have so many, they just are

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pumping out takedown notices all
the time,

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Adam Curry: yes, well, not just,
yeah. Well, they take it down,

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and then they notify the host
they've taken it down, right? Is

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the way I understand it, yeah.

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Dave Jones: And so this is, this
is the this was interesting to

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me, because I'm like, Okay,
well, let's see how, what have

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they built to make that happen?
And they go, they go through

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here, and it's, it's a machine
learning model. It's interesting

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to me that they do not mention,
they only mention AI once in

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here, like generative AI.
They're, they're very focused on

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a traditional machine learning
approach. And again, you know,

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I'll again say that that's
notable, because I feel like

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Spotify is a very forward
looking sort of hype engine

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company. And if they're not
really talking about generative

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AI that much, then that kind of
tells you where we're at, you

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know, and they're, they're
saying, you know, they're not

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using that terminology or the
they're just using traditional

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machine learning, which I mean
machine learning is, it is a

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real thing. It makes, it makes
sense. Been around for a long

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time. Yeah, sure. You just, but
you know, you're. Training a

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model, and then you're just
running it through, and you're

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all in, sort of implicit in
this, in machine learning, is

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that you're it embraces the fact
that you know that it's not

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going to be 100% accurate. And
that's that's just built into

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machine learning itself. So they
go a couple of things that stood

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out to me is they said we use,
we also use machine learning to

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analyze podcast, audio, video
and metadata to identify

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platform policy violations. So
that's what this is. This is

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how. Now I don't know how, if
they've been using this for a

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long time, or if, or if this is
fairly recent, but this is how

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they ident, identify things to
flag for content, for their

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platform policy violations. And
so then what they're what

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they're saying is they go
through it says we wanted to

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improve the data collection
process to be more efficient and

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connected, and to include the
right context for engineers and

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domain experts to operate more
effectively.

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Adam Curry: Well, to me, it
sounds like this is how they

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check pod, because I know a lot
of people are getting takedown

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notices or episodes being
removed for licensed music,

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which could even be, you know,
like a jingle or something, or

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even something you've licensed
honestly. I mean, I know tons of

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churches who pay for their
worship music licenses. They get

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taken off of Facebook all the
time, all the time, then they

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have to contest that. Oh, we're
sorry, and they get put back on

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Dave Jones: this. This seems
like says we we increase the

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corpus of annotations. I think
what do they mean by annotations

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is like tagging, tagging, cut
certain content on their system,

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about what they think a
violation was. And I'm not sure

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that this shows up publicly. I
think it's probably an internal

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thing. So like, it would be sort
of like a community notes in

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Twitter, but internal for their
own people to see. It says we

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increased the corpus of
annotations about 10 times, and

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did so with three times the
improvement in annotator

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productivity. Oh,

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Adam Curry: annotator
productivity. Nice.

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Dave Jones: We established
large, yeah, we established a

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large scale expert is, this is
what kind of got me. We

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established large scale expert
human workforces, now in several

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domains. So what, immediately,
when I, when I hear, we

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establish large scale expert
human workforces. Oh, I know

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Adam Curry: what that means.
It's AI, 1000 Indians, yeah,

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anonymous Indian AI, anonymous
Indians, right?

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Dave Jones: It's, it's the
Amazon 1000 Indians approach,

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yes, yeah. In several we
established large scale expert

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human workforces in several
domains to address our growing

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use cases with multiple levels
of experts. They use the word

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expert a lot, including the
following, core annotator

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workforces. These workforces are
domain experts who provide first

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pass review of all annotation
cases. Quality analysts. Quality

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analysts are top level domain
experts who act as the

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escalation. Oh, wait, this is

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Adam Curry: Spotify. Yes, this
is Spotify, who was actually

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making a profit after they
filed, fired all of the podcast

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people now that now they're
hiring Indians, anonymous

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Indians at 15 bucks an hour, if
that may be eight, it's

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Dave Jones: not anonymous
Indians. These are domain,

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expert level domain, yes,

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Adam Curry: core top level
domain, like.fm or which top

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level domain are the ends?

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Dave Jones: Yeah, dot link, who
act as the escalation point for

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all ambiguous or complex cases
identified by the core annotator

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workforce. So this is like level
two, and then you have project

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managers. This includes
individuals who connect

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engineering and product teams to
the workforce, establishing and

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00:19:02,340 --> 00:19:05,340
maintaining training materials
and organize feedback on data

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collection strategies. Oh, my,
this, this is, it's interesting

307
00:19:09,900 --> 00:19:15,300
to see a glimpse into how their
internal process looks, where it

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00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:18,120
looks like what's happening is
they've created this ML model

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that scrapes all of their data
internally, tags it with an

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annotation, and then delivers it
to the to the Indian workforce,

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who then, who then goes through
and just, I imagine, it's

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00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,100
probably just like a like an
assembly line. They're just

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like, review, review, review,
swipe left, slide, swipe right.

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Oh,

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00:19:43,540 --> 00:19:46,780
Adam Curry: yeah, yeah, dog,
cat,

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00:19:48,460 --> 00:19:52,060
Dave Jones: yeah, exactly, yeah.
Like, what was that? Uh, what

317
00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:54,400
was the thing that? Uh, Paul E
toy. That's

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00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,220
Adam Curry: exactly what it was.
Yeah, he was, he was training,

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00:19:57,220 --> 00:20:02,340
stock works. Was training. Uh.
AI image recognition. So the

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00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,120
dog, dog car for cameras, like
ring cameras, yeah,

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00:20:07,140 --> 00:20:11,580
Dave Jones: except every, like,
maybe every 200 uh, swipes, you

322
00:20:11,580 --> 00:20:14,280
get a mate, you get a, I'm not
sure, maybe, and you tap that

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00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,740
you know, you swipe up, or
something that you know this,

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00:20:16,740 --> 00:20:21,560
this feels like exactly what
what this is, but that that's

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00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:26,660
that makes sense, because I bet
you, the hit rate on this thing

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is just all over the map.
They're probably taking stuff

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00:20:30,380 --> 00:20:35,360
down all the time. That is just
like, not that's just false

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00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:40,180
positives, false false hits,
because it's all there's so much

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00:20:40,180 --> 00:20:41,560
automation. Here Did you

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00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:46,300
Adam Curry: see Satya Nadella of
Microsoft with his his

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00:20:46,300 --> 00:20:51,040
presentation of their AI stuff?
No, oh, man, this was my

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00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,640
favorite. My favorite quote from
the entire presentation. We're

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00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,640
Unknown: using AI to build AI to
build better AI. There

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00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:03,360
Adam Curry: you go. There you
go. And so, not to be outdone by

335
00:21:03,660 --> 00:21:09,720
Google's notebook, LM, podcast,
oh, we can do that now with with

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00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,900
Microsoft, you can do you can
create podcasts. It's really

337
00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:19,260
fantastic. Notebook. Lm, come
on. We're Microsoft, and they,

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00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:24,080
and they literally created the
Clippy of AI generated podcast.

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00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,060
Listen to this. Welcome

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00:21:26,420 --> 00:21:31,100
Unknown: back. Listeners. This
is Dan, and today we're diving

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00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:34,880
into a topic that's especially
relevant for those of you with

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00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,440
busy schedules, embracing AI in
content consumption,

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00:21:39,500 --> 00:21:42,220
Adam Curry: content this is so
unnatural. This we'll be

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00:21:42,220 --> 00:21:43,900
discussing how AI tools

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00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,420
Unknown: are helping us consume
diverse content more

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00:21:46,420 --> 00:21:49,540
efficiently, and how they're
making a big difference in our

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00:21:49,540 --> 00:21:52,780
personal and professional
growth. Anna, have you ever

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00:21:52,780 --> 00:21:55,420
found yourself struggling to
keep up with all the content you

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00:21:55,420 --> 00:21:57,340
want to consume because of your
busy schedule?

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Absolutely. Dan, finding the
time to consume all the content

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Dave Jones: Absolutely. Dan,
yes,

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00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,500
Unknown: it gets better content
we're interested in can be a

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00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:12,180
real struggle, especially when
juggling a busy schedule. That's

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why I'm so excited about the
ways.

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00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,380
Adam Curry: Doesn't she sound
excited? I'm so excited. That's

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00:22:19,380 --> 00:22:23,240
Unknown: why I'm so excited
about the ways AI is helping us

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00:22:23,300 --> 00:22:28,220
adapt content to our needs. For
instance, AI tools like text to

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00:22:28,220 --> 00:22:30,740
podcast converters are game
changers. They're

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00:22:30,740 --> 00:22:33,860
Adam Curry: game changers. Oh,
god,

360
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:35,900
Unknown: it's definitely
changing the game.

361
00:22:36,380 --> 00:22:38,180
Adam Curry: It is changing the
game.

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00:22:38,180 --> 00:22:40,840
Unknown: They allow us to
transform articles and other

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00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,800
text into audio formats we can
listen to while multitasking,

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00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,500
like during a commute or while
doing chores.

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00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,080
Adam Curry: I mean, don't I want
to shoot myself after listening

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00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,560
to 30 seconds of this podcast?
This horrible what

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00:22:53,620 --> 00:22:57,100
Dave Jones: I hate it. I hate
this new thing of trying to make

368
00:22:57,100 --> 00:23:03,120
uh, ai ai personalities sound
like they're they're real

369
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:08,340
people. Yes, it's not just stop,
stop, stop, like, yeah, I was

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00:23:08,340 --> 00:23:10,260
thinking this morning. It's
like, No, you weren't. You're

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not real.

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00:23:13,020 --> 00:23:13,920
Unknown: Oh, man,

373
00:23:14,340 --> 00:23:16,740
Dave Jones: this is acting. This
is automated acting. Is what?

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00:23:16,740 --> 00:23:17,220
This is

375
00:23:19,140 --> 00:23:21,740
Adam Curry: this? Uh, yeah, I'm
all for it.

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00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:30,140
Dave Jones: I'm reading this
book called, listen liberal.

377
00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:31,640
Unknown: Oh boy.

378
00:23:31,820 --> 00:23:37,580
Dave Jones: It's written by this
guy named Thomas Frank. He wrote

379
00:23:38,060 --> 00:23:39,020
he's pretty

380
00:23:39,020 --> 00:23:41,200
Adam Curry: famous. Sounds
familiar? Thomas Frank,

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00:23:41,860 --> 00:23:45,340
Dave Jones: yeah, he's, he's
written a few very, you know,

382
00:23:45,340 --> 00:23:51,100
kind of bestseller books. He's,
he's, he's sort of a, he's very

383
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:58,300
traditional left, you know, left
wing political science, common,

384
00:23:58,300 --> 00:24:00,180
I guess you call him a
commentator. I think he's like

385
00:24:00,180 --> 00:24:03,240
a, maybe a history professor
somewhere. I don't remember

386
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:09,780
exactly, but really famous book
called, What's the Matter with

387
00:24:09,780 --> 00:24:15,960
Kansas? Okay, and, and then I
think this was his follow up

388
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:17,940
book to that. It's called,
listen, liberal. And then

389
00:24:17,940 --> 00:24:23,180
there's a, I think he's, he
wrote one in, like, 2020, oh,

390
00:24:23,180 --> 00:24:25,940
yes, what it's called, the
people know. The people come and

391
00:24:25,940 --> 00:24:31,400
know anyway, it's, he's, he's a,
he's a very old, you know, like

392
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:36,200
old school, old school,
traditional FDR style, Democrat,

393
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,900
maybe is what you want to call
him. But it's interesting

394
00:24:40,900 --> 00:24:44,140
though, reading this book, it's
very good. I don't know how I

395
00:24:44,140 --> 00:24:47,020
mean, it would probably be
boring to people outside the US,

396
00:24:47,020 --> 00:24:50,980
but from a from a US sort of
political history standpoint,

397
00:24:50,980 --> 00:24:55,960
it's very good. It's like, how
did we get where we are today,

398
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,560
with where, sort of how the
where the political parties are

399
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,580
at and. But he's FIFA. He
focuses specifically on the

400
00:25:02,580 --> 00:25:05,400
Democrat Party, because that's
his, that's his, that's his

401
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:11,640
party, right? And so. But he
focuses a lot on the rise of

402
00:25:12,780 --> 00:25:15,900
what he called he's got a lot of
good phrases to describe these

403
00:25:15,900 --> 00:25:23,240
things. Like he is the rise of
the expert class, yeah, and sort

404
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,140
of a, you know, it's what he's
describing, is technocracy, but

405
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,620
he's got a lot of good
descriptions for it. But this,

406
00:25:30,620 --> 00:25:34,040
this transition from where you
had Harry Truman, who was

407
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,520
basically a shoe store, you
know, shoes, shoe salesman, as

408
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,140
the President, to now its
president. You know, it's, it's

409
00:25:41,140 --> 00:25:46,120
the executive branch. Is this is
always being run by the, quote,

410
00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:50,080
smartest people in the room, the
heart, you know, like 25% of

411
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,460
Obama's cabinet graduated from
Harvard. It's, he calls them the

412
00:25:54,460 --> 00:25:58,600
wet, the well graduated. And in
references, a lot of old

413
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:03,900
articles and stuff that I did, I
just missed at the time. This

414
00:26:03,900 --> 00:26:06,780
is, you know, back in the early
90s, during the presidential,

415
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,720
Presidency of Clinton and that
kind of thing. And it's a great,

416
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,660
it's a good book. But what it's
he kind of talks about this idea

417
00:26:15,660 --> 00:26:21,320
that the closer, the closer
people get to consensus. So

418
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,980
there's this idea on, you know,
with back in way he talks about

419
00:26:24,980 --> 00:26:28,820
the Democratic Leadership
Council, the DLC, which Clinton

420
00:26:28,820 --> 00:26:32,960
was the head of, and it was this
organization that was going to

421
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:38,660
sort of move the Democrat Party
Beyond The Beyond the days of

422
00:26:38,660 --> 00:26:44,740
FDR, and then you deal into this
new era of the, you know, the

423
00:26:44,740 --> 00:26:48,820
knowledge worker and the young
professional, the professional

424
00:26:48,820 --> 00:26:56,500
class. And so he talks about
this, what drives that class of

425
00:26:56,500 --> 00:27:02,580
person so much is this idea of
consensus, like, sort of like a

426
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:08,160
thinking block type thinking,
like, I think, like everybody

427
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,660
else does, of my class, and then
so he's, like, the closer you

428
00:27:12,660 --> 00:27:16,380
get to consensus, this, this
sort of, like II, like the

429
00:27:16,380 --> 00:27:21,320
center, the differentiators
between you and everybody else.

430
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,620
Don't really, they're not really
becoming about policy positions.

431
00:27:24,620 --> 00:27:27,740
They become more about the
incidentals, like, who you are,

432
00:27:27,740 --> 00:27:30,500
like, where did you go to
school, who you know, what's

433
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:31,400
your pedigree?

434
00:27:31,700 --> 00:27:35,540
Adam Curry: These called
Identity Politics. No, yeah, it

435
00:27:35,540 --> 00:27:35,900
becomes

436
00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:39,980
Dave Jones: more about identity
then, then about because you're

437
00:27:39,980 --> 00:27:42,820
already so close. You know
you're, you're, you're no longer

438
00:27:42,820 --> 00:27:43,540
really, are you? I

439
00:27:43,540 --> 00:27:47,200
Adam Curry: go back to this.
You're doing the weave. You're

440
00:27:47,740 --> 00:27:48,760
doing the weave.

441
00:27:49,420 --> 00:27:53,680
Dave Jones: I go back to and for
some reason, during during the

442
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:59,440
pandemic, I I got on. I think I
Okay. I watched that Oliver

443
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,000
Stone series about American
history, yeah, which I thought

444
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:08,820
was very good. And I ended up
watching the entire Bush Gore

445
00:28:08,820 --> 00:28:14,880
debate from, like, from 2000
Wow, in I think Jim Lehrer was

446
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:15,180
the

447
00:28:15,540 --> 00:28:18,420
Adam Curry: JIM LEHRER, yeah,
from the McNeil Lehrer report,

448
00:28:18,420 --> 00:28:19,140
sure. I

449
00:28:19,140 --> 00:28:23,420
Dave Jones: think he was the
moderator. And what I took away

450
00:28:23,420 --> 00:28:29,360
from that, from that debate, was
they almost were the same

451
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:33,680
person. Every they were. They
spent so much time saying, Well,

452
00:28:33,740 --> 00:28:39,440
you know, I agree with with my
phone, with my and I would do so

453
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,000
and so. And then Al Gore say,
Well, you know, I agree with

454
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,240
that, but you know, I would
tweak it in this way. They

455
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:51,940
agreed with each other like 90%
of the time. And so when you're

456
00:28:51,940 --> 00:28:57,100
at that point where everything
is sort of like you're so close

457
00:28:57,100 --> 00:29:02,700
together already giving people a
you have to, if you want people

458
00:29:02,700 --> 00:29:08,340
to go with you, versus versus
the other side. You have to look

459
00:29:08,340 --> 00:29:14,340
for other reasons to give to to,
you know, other reasons because

460
00:29:14,340 --> 00:29:17,940
the policy reasons are they're
just not distinct enough. So

461
00:29:18,060 --> 00:29:21,860
that's, this is what. This is
why. I think that was a long

462
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:23,300
worried. Here's

463
00:29:23,300 --> 00:29:25,040
Adam Curry: the weave. He's
bringing it back. He's bringing

464
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,440
it back. He's coming into home
plate, everybody.

465
00:29:28,100 --> 00:29:31,520
Dave Jones: This is why, I think
that story that that articles

466
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:36,440
like this in the public about
what Spotify is doing with their

467
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,380
content annotations. I think
this is why they use the term

468
00:29:39,380 --> 00:29:45,160
experts so much. Oh, okay,
everybody wants. Because what

469
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:51,160
you have to do is you have to
sell it, not based on the the

470
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,740
the quality of the product like,
but

471
00:29:53,740 --> 00:29:56,980
Adam Curry: based the power
these, the the pedigree of the

472
00:29:56,980 --> 00:30:00,240
people doing it. Yes, yeah, I
got you. Yeah,

473
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,000
Dave Jones: yes, because the
difference between an ML model

474
00:30:03,660 --> 00:30:09,600
and a thou in 1000 Indians might
be 2% so what you have to do is

475
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,120
you have to just, you have to
establish that, no, no, no,

476
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,780
these are domain experts, yeah,
but these are the smartest

477
00:30:15,780 --> 00:30:16,200
people in

478
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,960
Adam Curry: the room. We're
domain experts. To write that

479
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,600
down. That was a long

480
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,540
Dave Jones: that was a long
winded way of saying just that

481
00:30:23,540 --> 00:30:26,720
book's been on my mind a lot,
and so I saw this. I saw the

482
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:27,680
similarity. Well, I,

483
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,680
Adam Curry: as you know, I've
changed my tune. I'm all for it.

484
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,460
I want all the social media to
be flooded with the AI images.

485
00:30:34,460 --> 00:30:39,020
Am AI text generation AI videos
as much as possible. Make it

486
00:30:39,020 --> 00:30:43,000
unattractive and unusable, and
it will, the problem will solve

487
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:47,260
itself. And they're and they're
handing out all of these. What

488
00:30:47,260 --> 00:30:48,280
is that?

489
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,400
Dave Jones: That sounds big?
That's a million

490
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,000
Adam Curry: Satoshis. Whoa from
anonymous.

491
00:30:56,980 --> 00:31:01,080
Dave Jones: How did Ooh and
who's anonymous?

492
00:31:01,380 --> 00:31:05,520
Adam Curry: Well, anonymous
says, Well, I have an idea

493
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:12,600
today. True fans added an AI
filter in your user setting. So

494
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,260
if host equals AI, we will
disable the play button. If you

495
00:31:16,260 --> 00:31:18,840
have chosen that in your user
settings.

496
00:31:20,340 --> 00:31:23,060
Dave Jones: True fan. So
obviously, that was James that

497
00:31:23,060 --> 00:31:23,720
sent that.

498
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,680
Adam Curry: Why would James send
1000 SATs? A million SATs? I'm

499
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:32,960
sorry, a million. Kidding. It
can't be any British guy by any

500
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:38,300
stretch of the imagination. A
million Satoshis. Wow. Thank

501
00:31:38,300 --> 00:31:41,680
you, Sam. Thank you. Thank you
anonymous. Oh, that's, I've

502
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,900
Dave Jones: got that on my notes
to talk about, actually, no,

503
00:31:43,900 --> 00:31:46,720
because they true. Fans also no
longer needs an account. You

504
00:31:46,780 --> 00:31:48,220
don't have to have an account
just to

505
00:31:48,220 --> 00:31:50,320
Adam Curry: Oh, you can just use
it. Pop in and use it. Oh,

506
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,800
that's cool. That's cool,
although you don't get all the

507
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:58,060
benefits of of having an
account. I would presume, no,

508
00:31:58,060 --> 00:32:01,200
but you can still use it. Yeah,
you know, I was trying to add a

509
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:06,840
live radio stream to Sonos.
These guys have ruined

510
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:12,780
everything. They upgraded their
app and whatever. Maybe six,

511
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:18,180
eight months ago, you can't even
add a live stream anymore. You

512
00:32:18,180 --> 00:32:20,940
have to use a music service, and
then you have to do it through

513
00:32:20,940 --> 00:32:23,360
tune in then you have to do it
on the tune in app, and then you

514
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,480
do it on the app, and it doesn't
synchronize. I just want to add

515
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,200
some other stream that is not
connected to some mainstream

516
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,700
system, that is registered in
some other service. I just want

517
00:32:34,700 --> 00:32:36,740
to add a URL, well, can't be
done,

518
00:32:38,300 --> 00:32:42,820
Dave Jones: or can you? But you
can just, you, can you, like,

519
00:32:42,820 --> 00:32:45,460
pipe a podcast app into it,
right? Can't you do like, Apple

520
00:32:45,460 --> 00:32:48,520
play or something, I mean, or,
I'm sorry, uh, Bluetooth or

521
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:48,880
something,

522
00:32:49,660 --> 00:32:51,700
Adam Curry: you know that even
that I think has become

523
00:32:51,700 --> 00:32:54,700
complicated. I just really,
yeah, I just want to be able to

524
00:32:54,700 --> 00:32:57,580
use the app and save this to my
favorites, and so I can play it

525
00:32:57,580 --> 00:33:01,260
at home. And it's like, Ah, so

526
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,140
Dave Jones: you're using the
Sonos app to do, yeah, yeah.

527
00:33:05,820 --> 00:33:09,000
What is this? I've never had
Sonos. I've heard it's super I

528
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,780
mean, like for, for what it
costs it it ought to be, because

529
00:33:12,780 --> 00:33:16,620
I've heard it's not cheap. Oh
no, the hardware and stuff.

530
00:33:16,620 --> 00:33:19,740
Adam Curry: Oh and they and they
totally. Oh, interesting. No.

531
00:33:19,740 --> 00:33:23,960
Song is a Sonos controller for
Linux platforms, so you can do

532
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:30,440
stuff with it. Interesting.
They, they kind of break, they

533
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,700
basically downgraded all the old
hardware, which I'd had for

534
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,600
eight years, and it just started
not working right. And then they

535
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,160
said, Well, you know, you really
need to. And then the Oh, yeah,

536
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,880
if Oh, you want to use Sonos,
you have to, you know, here's

537
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,820
the new app. But you can use
this deprecated app for your old

538
00:33:48,820 --> 00:33:51,760
hardware. They really force
everybody into the new hardware.

539
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,700
There was quite disgusting. And
then, and then, if you

540
00:33:54,700 --> 00:33:57,280
decommissioned it, it bricked
the old speakers. You couldn't

541
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,320
even give them away to somebody.
James did lots of reports on

542
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,740
that. It was really, it was a
nasty company, because

543
00:34:04,740 --> 00:34:07,260
Dave Jones: I thought, I thought
once before about trying to get

544
00:34:07,260 --> 00:34:10,620
into that ecosystem, but I've
resisted, because it's so many

545
00:34:10,620 --> 00:34:11,520
people have complained

546
00:34:11,519 --> 00:34:13,499
Adam Curry: about, oh no, it's
horrible. It's horrible. I mean,

547
00:34:13,499 --> 00:34:16,319
I was in it, and then, you know,
Tina really wanted it, and said,

548
00:34:16,319 --> 00:34:19,739
okay, so she said we upgraded
when we moved to the house,

549
00:34:19,739 --> 00:34:23,359
like, okay, just simple, and it
was much easier to set up

550
00:34:23,359 --> 00:34:26,539
because it has, it creates its
own network, and it's a pretty

551
00:34:26,539 --> 00:34:30,199
simple system. But if you're not
in the in the in the ecosystem

552
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:33,259
of the apps and the approved
apps and all the stuff that they

553
00:34:33,259 --> 00:34:35,719
want, yo search for a radio
station, but have one that's not

554
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,599
in the listing, can I do use
that? Please? No, no, no, no,

555
00:34:38,599 --> 00:34:42,879
you can't do that. No, we'll
have none of that. That just

556
00:34:42,879 --> 00:34:46,779
horrible. And I tried to reset
password and wouldn't recognize

557
00:34:46,779 --> 00:34:50,499
it. And this, you know, just in
the Windows firewalls, I hated

558
00:34:50,499 --> 00:35:00,959
the link, almost as frustrating
as the mega meta. I. Hell thread

559
00:35:00,959 --> 00:35:06,119
about that Russell started about
pay walls on podcast index, dot

560
00:35:06,119 --> 00:35:09,899
social, my word, my word.

561
00:35:10,859 --> 00:35:16,199
Dave Jones: I've got some notes
about that. I don't buy by

562
00:35:16,199 --> 00:35:21,739
personal policy. I don't I just
try never to get involved in

563
00:35:21,739 --> 00:35:24,499
those threads. I just, I just
want to hear them. I just want

564
00:35:24,559 --> 00:35:26,359
to see them play themselves out.
Yeah,

565
00:35:26,420 --> 00:35:29,240
Adam Curry: no, and you're good
at that. I think I replied once

566
00:35:31,159 --> 00:35:34,819
Dave Jones: because, I mean,
because adding to it doesn't

567
00:35:34,819 --> 00:35:40,099
really help, you know, and so in
but I do have some thoughts. I

568
00:35:40,099 --> 00:35:41,619
mean, do you have any thoughts
you want

569
00:35:41,860 --> 00:35:44,260
Adam Curry: to Oh, no, the only,
the only thought, I mean, the

570
00:35:44,260 --> 00:35:48,340
part that I was concerned with,
got resolved pretty quickly,

571
00:35:48,340 --> 00:35:51,460
because everybody said, no, no,
this is not value for value.

572
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,480
And, okay, so what, you know?
And then there's always, and I'm

573
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,020
used to the Oh, so it's busking,
so it's tips, okay, I'm used to

574
00:35:59,020 --> 00:36:02,220
all that. And then I saw plenty
of people jump in and say, no,

575
00:36:02,220 --> 00:36:08,580
no, you got this wrong. And and,
as you know, sending links. But

576
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,720
I mean, I actually went to the
GitHub, to the GitHub, and said,

577
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:15,180
Look, there's this. There's for
what you want to do if you

578
00:36:15,180 --> 00:36:19,200
really want to do that. Because
I think what he was looking for

579
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:28,340
was a way to have, you know, the
content that you pay for, and

580
00:36:28,340 --> 00:36:31,100
you can, you know, there's
different ways you can create a

581
00:36:31,100 --> 00:36:36,020
pay wall. And, you know, and I
kind of reject the notion that,

582
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,020
well, we have to keep up with
Spotify. Just reject that notion

583
00:36:39,020 --> 00:36:41,860
out of hand. I'm not interested
in that, and, but I'm not even

584
00:36:41,860 --> 00:36:46,600
going to post about that. But
the idea of stream, of using

585
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:52,300
SATs, and, you know, the
streaming payments, or booster

586
00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:56,560
gram, there is a solution. It's
called LSAT, and we looked at

587
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,900
that years ago, and it's a very
elegant, very simple way for you

588
00:37:00,900 --> 00:37:06,060
to not allow an HTTP request
unless you've paid some

589
00:37:06,060 --> 00:37:09,060
Satoshis. And it works really
well. And I posted that on the

590
00:37:09,060 --> 00:37:13,560
GitHub, and it was just ignored,
to which I'm like, Okay, you're

591
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,940
really not even interested in
solving this problem, at least

592
00:37:17,940 --> 00:37:20,160
that's the way it came across to
me, because I'm giving you a

593
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,840
technical solution that fits in
perfectly. I think people were

594
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:29,840
just more interested in arguing
for argument's sake. And I don't

595
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,980
know, it felt incredibly in
product, non productive, and it

596
00:37:33,980 --> 00:37:38,060
died. Of course it did, but it
was just, it was, it was a head

597
00:37:38,060 --> 00:37:41,560
scratcher. I didn't understand.
You know, what are you trying to

598
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,160
do? You know, it's like, their
solution, just do it. They felt

599
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:50,680
like, there you go. Like, trying
to build consensus, where, in

600
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,760
our community, code counts,
like, hey, implement it, build

601
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,360
it. Have to have both sides of
the equation, a hosting company

602
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,980
and an app. And then, you know,
it's then we we bang it around.

603
00:38:01,980 --> 00:38:05,400
I mean, that's how we always do
things, but this endless trying

604
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,260
to build consensus was irkso,

605
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,360
Dave Jones: did you hear Jane
James and Sam's discussion last

606
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,340
week on on power?

607
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,880
Adam Curry: Yeah. Power podcast,
weekly pod, news, weekly review.

608
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,020
Yes, I did. I did.

609
00:38:20,699 --> 00:38:23,959
Dave Jones: I thought that was a
good discussion. It because it

610
00:38:23,959 --> 00:38:29,659
sort of, you know this podcast,
discussions on podcasts are so

611
00:38:29,659 --> 00:38:32,959
much better than discussions on
message boards. Oh, no, kidding.

612
00:38:33,859 --> 00:38:36,919
You can get some. You can get
into the nuance faster, and you

613
00:38:36,919 --> 00:38:41,319
can understand that. It's just
so it's a better experience. So

614
00:38:41,319 --> 00:38:44,679
I took a lot of value away from
listening to them hash some

615
00:38:44,679 --> 00:38:49,119
things out back and forth, you
know. And Sam was saying, you

616
00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:54,339
know, he's like, I think Sam's
coming at it from the standpoint

617
00:38:54,339 --> 00:38:57,159
of, you know, Spotify is doing
all these great things. And he,

618
00:38:57,159 --> 00:39:02,279
you know, I want, I'm speaking
as Sam here. I want, I want open

619
00:39:02,339 --> 00:39:04,979
the, you know, the open podcast
ecosystem, to have those same

620
00:39:04,979 --> 00:39:07,859
things. And I agree, because
we're all that's what we're all

621
00:39:07,859 --> 00:39:11,879
here for, is to make sure that
that's that that is the case.

622
00:39:12,059 --> 00:39:19,079
Um, there's an issue here that I
just think is the elephant in

623
00:39:19,079 --> 00:39:24,799
the room, and it's so big that
we just we miss it okay, that,

624
00:39:25,879 --> 00:39:30,499
you know, we could build a
payment tag for RSS very easily.

625
00:39:31,519 --> 00:39:34,759
That's that's really not an
impediment to any of this stuff.

626
00:39:36,019 --> 00:39:44,139
It, let's say that we want a way
to to lock a piece of content

627
00:39:45,519 --> 00:39:49,119
that's referenced in an
enclosure. We want a way to lock

628
00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:53,799
that behind a paywall. We could
create some sort of payment tag,

629
00:39:54,399 --> 00:39:57,339
and even we could even repurpose
one of the existing tags that we

630
00:39:57,339 --> 00:40:02,219
already have, uh, with, uh. Uh,
with a so that it's when it's

631
00:40:02,219 --> 00:40:05,819
present in an episode, you have
to get some sort of payment,

632
00:40:05,819 --> 00:40:08,999
conference confirmation, some
sort of confirmation hash or

633
00:40:08,999 --> 00:40:12,359
something that you then send
back with the enclosure URL,

634
00:40:12,359 --> 00:40:15,779
either either in a header or a
parameter or something in order

635
00:40:15,779 --> 00:40:21,739
to enable retrieval of the
content. That's that's almost

636
00:40:21,739 --> 00:40:26,179
trivial to to design. Now, of
course, it would take some

637
00:40:26,179 --> 00:40:29,719
coding to put it into the app,
but the design is not difficult,

638
00:40:30,619 --> 00:40:36,919
but what? But what would that
look like in the app? It would

639
00:40:36,919 --> 00:40:40,779
have to be some sort of
transaction that takes place in

640
00:40:40,779 --> 00:40:46,419
a web view that opens up to a
third party payment platform,

641
00:40:46,899 --> 00:40:50,499
sort of like bus sprout does
with their subscriptions. What's

642
00:40:50,499 --> 00:40:54,279
the obvious thing that's pro
that's wrong here. This violates

643
00:40:54,279 --> 00:40:56,679
apple and Google's platform
policy. You can't do that.

644
00:40:56,739 --> 00:41:01,259
Right? You're not allowed to use
third party payment provide

645
00:41:01,379 --> 00:41:05,579
payment platforms in order to
make a thing like that happen,

646
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:13,259
so immediately you can't do
this. Now you know bus brow

647
00:41:13,259 --> 00:41:20,899
solution, where their their
subscription product violates

648
00:41:20,899 --> 00:41:27,139
this. This already to a certain
degree, but, but because it's

649
00:41:27,139 --> 00:41:32,179
considered a donation, you know,
you don't, it's not unlocking

650
00:41:32,179 --> 00:41:34,519
content. You're not paying,
making a payment and then

651
00:41:34,519 --> 00:41:38,539
receiving the content in in
return, right? This

652
00:41:38,540 --> 00:41:42,940
Adam Curry: is exactly what
Patreon went through, right with

653
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,400
unlocking, with unlocking
content, yeah,

654
00:41:46,599 --> 00:41:50,559
Dave Jones: so it's considered a
donation, just, you're just

655
00:41:50,559 --> 00:41:54,099
sending this, you're sending the
podcaster money. You're not

656
00:41:54,099 --> 00:41:59,679
giving them money to get content
in return, right? So that kind

657
00:41:59,679 --> 00:42:03,659
of skirts around this problem.
But if it's an actual digital

658
00:42:03,659 --> 00:42:07,739
purchase of an audio book,
right, then you run out of

659
00:42:07,739 --> 00:42:11,999
trouble. You can't do it. You
just simply cannot do it without

660
00:42:11,999 --> 00:42:18,059
going through the without going
through the platforms, payment

661
00:42:18,059 --> 00:42:18,479
system.

662
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,440
Adam Curry: I don't think James
and Sam actually discussed that

663
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:22,400
part of it, did they?

664
00:42:23,060 --> 00:42:25,820
Dave Jones: No, they didn't. And
see, that's, but that's, that's

665
00:42:25,820 --> 00:42:30,800
the that's the issue here, this,
this is a political problem, not

666
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:35,300
a technological problem, amen. I
mean, I mean Paula and political

667
00:42:35,300 --> 00:42:38,600
in quote, you know, quotes like
this is not a problem. No, it's

668
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,760
not, but is a policy problem.
Spotify has gotten special

669
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,100
treatment from App Store
policies

670
00:42:45,099 --> 00:42:47,499
Adam Curry: because of anti
competitive stuff with the music

671
00:42:47,559 --> 00:42:48,639
business apps.

672
00:42:48,639 --> 00:42:51,879
Dave Jones: Exactly, yeah, in
order to get around this issue,

673
00:42:52,119 --> 00:42:57,639
as has as have other large
players, Netflix and others have

674
00:42:57,639 --> 00:43:04,319
gotten carve outs in order to
allow their product to exist

675
00:43:04,319 --> 00:43:07,379
into and to basically violate
the rules which everybody else

676
00:43:07,379 --> 00:43:08,459
is forced to comply

677
00:43:08,580 --> 00:43:11,340
Adam Curry: with. Take us one
step further about how crazy

678
00:43:11,340 --> 00:43:16,380
this is. So how many times have
we had someone who submitted an

679
00:43:16,380 --> 00:43:22,340
app that wants to access podcast
index get rejected with a with a

680
00:43:22,340 --> 00:43:25,880
standard form that says, no, no,
you have to show that you have

681
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,900
permission from all of these
people in order to access their

682
00:43:29,900 --> 00:43:33,200
content and make it playable in
your app. Yeah,

683
00:43:33,199 --> 00:43:34,639
Dave Jones: that's happened
multiple times,

684
00:43:34,639 --> 00:43:37,579
Adam Curry: and you know. So we
have a form letter, a template,

685
00:43:37,579 --> 00:43:41,199
and we send it on their behalf
and say, no, no. Hey, look, this

686
00:43:41,199 --> 00:43:43,959
is the terms of service. Here's
how everything is submitted to

687
00:43:43,959 --> 00:43:47,979
the index, and then the app gets
approved. So I heard yesterday

688
00:43:47,979 --> 00:43:53,319
from one of our no agenda
producers. He made an RSS feed

689
00:43:53,319 --> 00:43:56,739
reader rejected under the very
same grounds,

690
00:43:57,579 --> 00:44:01,499
Dave Jones: What? What? What
service where they was he using

691
00:44:01,499 --> 00:44:03,239
that they were complaining
about? Well,

692
00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:05,940
Adam Curry: they say that if
you're going to ingest content

693
00:44:05,940 --> 00:44:10,200
from other places, you need to
show that you have approval from

694
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,980
those other places. So he hasn't
yet, yeah, oh, yeah. So he has

695
00:44:13,980 --> 00:44:18,000
a, you know, like a, like a
starter pack, or a hot list or

696
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,480
something. It comes with the
number of feeds already pre

697
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:26,180
installed. No, can't do that.
Can't do that. So, so they're

698
00:44:26,180 --> 00:44:33,260
literally creating hurdles for
RSS to flow freely through apps

699
00:44:33,260 --> 00:44:36,440
that are distributed through the
app stores. It's disgusting.

700
00:44:37,460 --> 00:44:42,640
Dave Jones: And see, this is the
the okay V for V is an is an

701
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,100
ideology of, pay of, it's a

702
00:44:45,100 --> 00:44:49,180
Adam Curry: cult of how he's a
cult. Yes, V for V is a cult.

703
00:44:50,020 --> 00:44:50,500
Yeah,

704
00:44:51,100 --> 00:44:55,540
Dave Jones: lots of candles,
horns, the it's, it's an

705
00:44:55,540 --> 00:45:01,620
ideology about the way that you
know. Get supported by your by

706
00:45:01,620 --> 00:45:07,920
your listeners, but it's also
the way podcasting works,

707
00:45:08,220 --> 00:45:16,200
because of self defense from
these dominant platforms. You

708
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:22,580
you can't sell content, digital
content through through apps.

709
00:45:22,580 --> 00:45:31,580
That's right with without giving
Apple 30% of of the of the the

710
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:37,340
the revenue, and when you have
people like that's and that's

711
00:45:37,340 --> 00:45:41,740
even if you're using the in app
payment solution through their

712
00:45:41,740 --> 00:45:45,760
APIs. If you want to do it
through a do an RSS feed in an

713
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:50,140
open way that's not proprietary,
you can't do that at all. No,

714
00:45:51,460 --> 00:45:55,900
now, now show me a salute. Now,
you know, show me a solution

715
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,680
that works like Buzz sprouts,
subscription mechanism. Thing

716
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:10,620
does, but instead of opening up
a web a web view, a web view, it

717
00:46:10,620 --> 00:46:16,620
in somehow embeds the Apple Pay
and Google Pay data directly in

718
00:46:16,620 --> 00:46:21,500
the RSS feeds, feed itself.
Yeah, no. Show me that solution,

719
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,480
and I will gladly drop
everything and make that tag a

720
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:30,440
reality. That's a promise, if,
if, maybe it can be done. I

721
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:30,920
don't know. I'm

722
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:32,540
Adam Curry: sure true fans
already does it

723
00:46:34,219 --> 00:46:39,139
Dave Jones: True. True fans uses
the web, the web version of

724
00:46:39,139 --> 00:46:47,559
Apple, pay, right? And, and that
works, but see, somehow this

725
00:46:47,559 --> 00:46:50,739
would have to and so that's the
way bus sprouts thing works. So

726
00:46:50,739 --> 00:46:56,259
like, what bus sprout does is
they put it, they put a link to

727
00:46:56,259 --> 00:47:01,139
a sub to a sort of donation
subscription page in the funding

728
00:47:01,139 --> 00:47:08,039
tag, you tap the funding tag, it
opens up and you can choose

729
00:47:08,039 --> 00:47:10,799
there to donate to the show or
do a monthly recurring

730
00:47:10,799 --> 00:47:15,299
subscription, either through
like Apple Pay or credit card or

731
00:47:15,299 --> 00:47:21,619
other things. In order that and
like, you know, like I said,

732
00:47:21,619 --> 00:47:25,279
that works. They allow that to
go to you to function, because

733
00:47:25,279 --> 00:47:30,439
that's not technically a
purchase, it's a donation. If

734
00:47:30,439 --> 00:47:35,839
we, if we make this actually a
purchase, then I don't think

735
00:47:35,839 --> 00:47:39,259
that that. I think that is a
violation. What, what you have

736
00:47:39,259 --> 00:47:42,879
to have is a way that the app
itself interacts with the APIs

737
00:47:42,879 --> 00:47:46,299
without any web view, because
you're not allowed to link to a

738
00:47:46,299 --> 00:47:51,879
third party page in order to
make a payment. So this data

739
00:47:51,879 --> 00:47:54,879
would have to be the apple, Pay,
Google, pay, all these things

740
00:47:54,879 --> 00:47:57,639
would have to be embedded in the
feed in a way that the app

741
00:47:57,639 --> 00:48:03,659
itself could process the payment
in app, right? And so, like I

742
00:48:03,659 --> 00:48:07,919
said, may show me that that's
doable and and I'm glad I will

743
00:48:08,279 --> 00:48:14,099
happily write a tag for that,
because, but this, this is not

744
00:48:14,459 --> 00:48:20,279
what. What people always end up
with is they describe a scenario

745
00:48:20,639 --> 00:48:23,479
where you go and pay for
content, and it unlocks it in

746
00:48:23,479 --> 00:48:26,539
the app. And I'm saying that
that that can't work,

747
00:48:27,140 --> 00:48:33,380
Adam Curry: I guess. I guess the
at this health thread, there are

748
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:39,980
two things. One is I just don't
understand why we think we are

749
00:48:39,980 --> 00:48:45,460
or even can compete with Spotify
or Apple. I've never felt that

750
00:48:45,460 --> 00:48:50,320
was the point. It's like, okay,
then why don't you people just

751
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:54,700
use Spotify? You know, you
whether you use Spotify or build

752
00:48:54,700 --> 00:48:58,060
a new Spotify, you're gonna run
into all the same issues, all

753
00:48:58,060 --> 00:49:00,900
the same issues. Spotify is
already fixed in the best way

754
00:49:01,140 --> 00:49:06,300
they can fix it as a corporate
entity. So I don't understand.

755
00:49:06,300 --> 00:49:09,660
It's like, okay, well, I have
people of audiobooks who want to

756
00:49:09,660 --> 00:49:13,740
get paid. Okay, well, then they
can go to Amazon or where else

757
00:49:13,740 --> 00:49:16,560
they want to go. And you got to
live by those rules. That's just

758
00:49:17,580 --> 00:49:21,500
Amazon and Spotify and Apple.
They they need to run their

759
00:49:21,500 --> 00:49:25,160
business so you can't be doing
it for free, and they don't. And

760
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,400
whatever they charge, they
charge. That's Yes, I

761
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,460
Dave Jones: agree with James. I
think I he said, The thing I'm

762
00:49:31,460 --> 00:49:34,160
most keen to do is ensure that
podcast apps get to benefit.

763
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:37,520
Basically, they get a piece of
the action. I agree. I feel the

764
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:44,320
same way. That's if, if we can
make, you know, I want to keep,

765
00:49:44,380 --> 00:49:48,520
I want to keep up or be, or
always be ahead of the of like

766
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:50,860
Spotify and Apple and these. I
want to be ahead of them

767
00:49:50,860 --> 00:49:54,100
technologically in the
capabilities that that RSS can

768
00:49:54,100 --> 00:49:59,500
provide. And also want it to be
in a way where so if, if

769
00:49:59,500 --> 00:50:05,820
somebody. It wants to sell their
audiobook, they can sell it, and

770
00:50:05,820 --> 00:50:09,060
if they choose to put it behind
a paywall, hey, that's that's

771
00:50:09,060 --> 00:50:12,660
fine. Doesn't really match my
ideology, but that's fine.

772
00:50:13,140 --> 00:50:16,380
They've, they're going to make
that choice, and I want to be

773
00:50:16,380 --> 00:50:22,340
able to service that and in some
way where, if you buy it through

774
00:50:22,340 --> 00:50:26,120
true fans, or through cast O
Matic or podcast guru or

775
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:31,940
fountain, then then you know Sam
and Franco and and Oscar and

776
00:50:31,940 --> 00:50:35,780
Jason and all them can and Mitch
can get a piece of that action.

777
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:36,500
It

778
00:50:36,500 --> 00:50:39,920
Adam Curry: was very
interesting. Stephen Bell had

779
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,760
what he called a thought
experiment as a part of this

780
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:43,900
thread. Did you see that?

781
00:50:45,219 --> 00:50:47,499
Dave Jones: I think I did what
he said. I

782
00:50:47,500 --> 00:50:49,720
Adam Curry: don't want to
misquote him. Hold on a second.

783
00:50:49,720 --> 00:50:53,320
Let me grab it here, because it
was, it was, I liked it a lot.

784
00:50:54,760 --> 00:51:07,080
Let me see, I might have to
paraphrase it, but he said, Wow,

785
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,680
I wish I could find this. What
he basically said is as a

786
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:15,660
thought experiment, as you know,
as you're trying to make money,

787
00:51:15,660 --> 00:51:19,320
and everyone's trying to make
well, what does podcast index

788
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,940
do? Do they just decide, oh,
well, you know, well, we're

789
00:51:22,940 --> 00:51:26,780
going to charge you for some
access in certain cases. You

790
00:51:26,780 --> 00:51:29,540
know, there's a whole
infrastructure behind here. You

791
00:51:29,540 --> 00:51:32,780
know, there's a lot of moving
pieces, and it's, it's not set

792
00:51:32,780 --> 00:51:39,020
up for this. And so I don't know
it just Well, I was more proud

793
00:51:39,020 --> 00:51:44,020
of our little community not
going crazy, and it didn't turn

794
00:51:44,020 --> 00:51:47,800
into a massive flame war,
because I've seen open source

795
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:52,000
communities burn out on exactly
this type of threat. I agree,

796
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,340
and I thought that was
fantastic. People tried to be

797
00:51:54,340 --> 00:51:58,960
helpful. They provided counter
perspectives, and it eventually,

798
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,040
and, you know, and of course,
people like, Okay, I'm muting.

799
00:52:02,100 --> 00:52:07,980
I'm gone. And yeah, and I like,
that's what I thought was the

800
00:52:07,980 --> 00:52:10,200
big win of this. Well,

801
00:52:10,260 --> 00:52:12,960
Dave Jones: this, this ends up
this. This is kind of leads

802
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:20,660
this. This is attached. Yeah, I
agree, James. I'm not a fan of

803
00:52:20,660 --> 00:52:23,960
purchasing podcasts, either, but
I don't, I'm not gonna, you

804
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,180
know, shame other people for
doing it. That's fine I pay for,

805
00:52:26,180 --> 00:52:28,760
there's a couple of podcasts I
pay for because they're behind

806
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,520
pay walls, and I just, I want to
listen, so I pay for them

807
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:36,080
monthly that and then I'm not,
like, bitter about it. I gladly

808
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,480
pay what, what they want. I
think they could earn more if

809
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:42,940
they didn't do it that way. But
that's just me, but it kind of

810
00:52:42,940 --> 00:52:48,160
like attached to this. There's
this, you know, we've got this

811
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:56,500
stealth project we're building,
and this is funny. It's what

812
00:52:56,500 --> 00:52:59,440
it's turning into, is basically,
we're, it's the same thing we

813
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,560
always do. We're building
something that we both really

814
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:05,880
want, and then other people can
use it if they want to, pretty

815
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:10,800
Adam Curry: much, yeah, that's
pretty much the modus operandi,

816
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:11,820
yes, yeah.

817
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:17,340
Dave Jones: But I remember, I
remembered a while back, Leo

818
00:53:17,340 --> 00:53:20,900
Laporte had a criticism of of
what we were doing here, and he

819
00:53:20,900 --> 00:53:25,700
said he's like, you know, Adam.
You know Adam's building a

820
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:28,940
podcast into, you know, podcast
directory. Who uses podcast

821
00:53:28,940 --> 00:53:30,020
directories anymore?

822
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,720
Adam Curry: Well, I was just
ignorance. He doesn't, didn't

823
00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:34,880
really know what we were doing,
right?

824
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:38,360
Dave Jones: But that, it kind of
was a throwaway statement at the

825
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:43,420
time. But it turns out, who uses
podcast directories anymore? The

826
00:53:43,420 --> 00:53:44,260
answer is, everybody

827
00:53:44,260 --> 00:53:47,020
Adam Curry: does, yeah, in one
way, and they may not know it,

828
00:53:47,020 --> 00:53:47,740
but they do

829
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:52,120
Dave Jones: try. And this is,
this is related to this thing

830
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:58,720
we're building. Try getting your
try getting a podcast to show up

831
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:04,080
anywhere if it doesn't exist in
in at least one directory,

832
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:10,320
right? It it's almost
impossible. Their directories

833
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:19,260
are critical to podcasting. They
most all apps tag tap into a

834
00:54:19,260 --> 00:54:22,460
directory in some shape, form or
fashion, whether it's Apple or

835
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:29,540
or or us, but Spotify is closed,
so that's doesn't really count,

836
00:54:29,540 --> 00:54:29,840
but

837
00:54:30,500 --> 00:54:32,300
Adam Curry: so is apples, for
that matter,

838
00:54:33,260 --> 00:54:36,560
Dave Jones: we'll see there. And
that's, that's the issue. Is it

839
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:40,900
turn it turns out, you know, it
turns out that the biggest issue

840
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:46,660
within podcasts. Well, sort of
freedom, isn't it? Isn't

841
00:54:46,660 --> 00:54:50,020
necessarily censorship, it's
just, it's just existence.

842
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:52,840
Adam Curry: It's hard to exist.

843
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,600
Dave Jones: It is if you aren't
in the directories, you just

844
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,180
don't exist, right? So what's
what's happening is we know

845
00:54:58,180 --> 00:55:01,800
we're trying to push some feeds
in. To we're trying to, if we're

846
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:03,840
trying to link out that I've
talked about this, I think,

847
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,300
couple weeks ago, when we're
talking about episodes that FM,

848
00:55:06,300 --> 00:55:11,340
I'm trying to link out for some
from some newly created feeds to

849
00:55:12,780 --> 00:55:16,020
to the podcast apps directly. So
I want you know, I want you to

850
00:55:16,020 --> 00:55:18,600
be able to, you've done this
thing

851
00:55:18,599 --> 00:55:21,139
Adam Curry: open, to open this
podcast, and you're in the in

852
00:55:21,139 --> 00:55:22,879
this app, right?

853
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,900
Dave Jones: You just created
this thing. It has a feed, and I

854
00:55:26,900 --> 00:55:30,800
want you to be able to, within
30 seconds, tap, oh, tap,

855
00:55:31,820 --> 00:55:36,020
podcast guru or fountain, or
cast a Matic, or pod verse or

856
00:55:36,020 --> 00:55:40,660
podcast addict, and just have it
there. It's where you can hit

857
00:55:40,660 --> 00:55:45,520
subscribe. That's actually
pretty tricky. It's not that

858
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:51,340
easy because most of them do not
support a direct subscription by

859
00:55:51,340 --> 00:55:56,260
URL, by Feed URL. Now, oddly,
Apple is the easiest one of

860
00:55:56,260 --> 00:56:00,360
these, because they have the
sort of direct link where you

861
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:03,180
can just say podcast, colon,
slash, slash in the feed URL,

862
00:56:03,180 --> 00:56:08,100
um, you know, the the downside
of that is, Apple doesn't

863
00:56:08,100 --> 00:56:11,760
support most of the podcasting
2.0 tags we want to use, right?

864
00:56:12,300 --> 00:56:17,160
So the other apps, they have
various ways to get around this,

865
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:22,760
but in most circumstances, the
feed has to exist in one of the

866
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:27,260
directories, whether Apple or us
first. Now, for us, it's not,

867
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,660
you know, that's a pretty quick
fix. I mean, we, you know, you

868
00:56:29,660 --> 00:56:34,760
submitted and it's there within,
you know, five minutes. But with

869
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:36,440
Apple, it's kind of impossible.

870
00:56:36,500 --> 00:56:38,420
Adam Curry: You need an account.
Look at comics, your blogger.

871
00:56:38,420 --> 00:56:41,860
Yes, he, he wanted to be in he
had to have someone else add it

872
00:56:41,860 --> 00:56:44,380
to their account, because he
doesn't, he wants to be

873
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:48,460
anonymous, and so he doesn't, he
didn't want to open an account.

874
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:52,360
Dave Jones: And I guess it's
related to our previous this is

875
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:55,120
where we're talking about just
second ago, because it

876
00:56:55,960 --> 00:57:00,780
podcasting is it has a lot of
gates. There's a lot of

877
00:57:00,780 --> 00:57:08,280
gatekeeping around, around this
supposedly open protocol, and

878
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:11,520
there's a lot of things that
keep it from operating in a

879
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:18,660
smooth, well oiled, open
protocol fashion. And so these

880
00:57:18,660 --> 00:57:24,200
are, these are things that they
shouldn't be this way, but they

881
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:31,760
are. It should. It should not be
that Apple gets to decide

882
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:37,640
whether or not you, as a
podcaster, can sell an episode

883
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:42,160
of your of your audio book to
your customer, right to your to

884
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:46,180
your listener. It shouldn't be
that way, but it is. I don't

885
00:57:46,180 --> 00:57:47,560
know. You have to work around
it.

886
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:49,960
Adam Curry: I don't know if you
noticed, but I think Spurlock

887
00:57:50,140 --> 00:57:53,980
posted about this, that on iOS
18, you can now choose what

888
00:57:53,980 --> 00:57:59,200
browser, what email client, you
want to open automatically, but

889
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:01,860
you still can't choose which
podcast app you want to open

890
00:58:01,860 --> 00:58:04,560
automatically, because that
would imagine, if Apple did

891
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:06,300
that, how much that would
change?

892
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:10,920
Dave Jones: It would be huge.
Oh, man, it would just be giant.

893
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:11,460
Yeah,

894
00:58:12,180 --> 00:58:16,320
Adam Curry: it would be
enormous. But for some reason,

895
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:20,040
they didn't do it. Gotta wonder.
I gotta wonder

896
00:58:21,060 --> 00:58:22,700
Dave Jones: part, I think I've
said, I've mentioned this

897
00:58:22,700 --> 00:58:26,000
before, part of me is sort of
glad they haven't done it until

898
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:31,040
now, in a weird way. And that's
that seems like a, it's like a

899
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:36,920
hypocritical from based on what
I just said. But I think there

900
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,380
would have been a lot of people
who set their default to be

901
00:58:39,380 --> 00:58:44,380
Spotify, maybe, or something,
you know, or something else. So

902
00:58:44,500 --> 00:58:48,400
I think that was a move on their
part to sort of like, hold some

903
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:51,520
of that at bay for a long time
when Spotify was on its mega

904
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:56,380
podcast. Kick maybe now that,
maybe now that that's, yeah, a

905
00:58:56,380 --> 00:58:59,740
little, a little apple backyard
mischief, yeah, probably.

906
00:58:59,740 --> 00:59:01,500
Adam Curry: I mean, what do they
care? People are using their

907
00:59:01,500 --> 00:59:06,000
devices. That's the whole point.
Yeah. Why do they care? Yeah,

908
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,700
Dave Jones: Apple podcast is in
the net. It's an appendix and

909
00:59:08,700 --> 00:59:11,700
anachronism on the entire
organization. It doesn't make

910
00:59:11,700 --> 00:59:12,240
any money.

911
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:15,360
Adam Curry: It's a dangling
appendix. Is what it is. It is

912
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:18,960
no no participle, no disrespect
to the team over there. No

913
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:20,100
disrespect at all.

914
00:59:20,580 --> 00:59:22,880
Dave Jones: Oh, I'm glad they
exist. I'm thankful that they

915
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:25,520
still have jobs. Yeah, so

916
00:59:26,719 --> 00:59:28,699
Adam Curry: time to play a
little music. I'm very excited

917
00:59:28,699 --> 00:59:31,879
about this song for today. Oh,
cool. You know, I'm back doing

918
00:59:31,879 --> 00:59:35,719
boosted grand ball every 14
days. Jim Costello, phantom

919
00:59:35,719 --> 00:59:40,299
power music is is producing with
me, which I really love, because

920
00:59:40,299 --> 00:59:45,939
it made it possible. And again,
I will reiterate, December 16

921
00:59:46,419 --> 00:59:50,979
antones, very famous venue in
Austin will be Adam Curry's

922
00:59:50,979 --> 00:59:53,799
booster Grand Ball. Live. I feel
like Dick Clark. I feel like

923
00:59:53,799 --> 00:59:57,099
I'm, you know, like we're coming
full. Is that your dog or mine?

924
00:59:57,699 --> 01:00:01,379
No, that's you. I feel like
we're coming full. Cycle. You

925
01:00:01,379 --> 01:00:04,799
know, I'm doing a sock hop, and
I think we're gonna have four,

926
01:00:04,979 --> 01:00:10,019
four or five bands, but I think
Jimmy V on boarded, these guys

927
01:00:10,019 --> 01:00:14,759
into into the value verse. This
is Rebel hero and Run you.

928
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:42,160
Unknown: You walk in sleep.

929
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:47,200
You tell me, some broken things
you

930
01:01:56,680 --> 01:02:05,700
can't repay. It'll

931
01:02:21,780 --> 01:03:29,240
be Dead. Can they fall down

932
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:42,980
to make it up to The people on
air?

933
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:25,280
Adam Curry: Uh, so that's music
for a Friday, right there.

934
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:30,020
Dave Jones: That's, do you
remember the band extreme? Of

935
01:04:30,020 --> 01:04:33,740
course, yeah, that's that sounds
like extreme to me, huh?

936
01:04:33,799 --> 01:04:37,699
Adam Curry: Well, some people
say it sounds like Lenny Kravitz

937
01:04:37,699 --> 01:04:42,579
and but you know what? There you
go. At least it's not AI,

938
01:04:43,540 --> 01:04:44,740
Dave Jones: yes, absolutely

939
01:04:45,460 --> 01:04:49,660
Adam Curry: not AI, not AI.
Music, I love that. What are you

940
01:04:49,660 --> 01:04:51,760
drinking? Show, beard,

941
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,780
Dave Jones: this is, this is,
this is a polar SEL, sir,

942
01:04:55,780 --> 01:04:59,920
Mandarin, oh, polar cell. You
know what's good is the polar.

943
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,160
Seltzer, orange, vanilla

944
01:05:04,199 --> 01:05:05,519
Adam Curry: with natural
flavors.

945
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:07,200
Dave Jones: No doubt that's very
natural.

946
01:05:08,580 --> 01:05:13,620
Adam Curry: Thanks for boosting.
Eric PP, Eric PP, boosted in for

947
01:05:13,980 --> 01:05:16,740
rebel hero. Very nice. Nice.

948
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:24,080
Dave Jones: Yeah, so Alex is
working on, he's working with

949
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:26,720
some people on Monero,

950
01:05:27,139 --> 01:05:29,719
Adam Curry: oh, to bring that
into value for value. Oh, cool,

951
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:33,800
Dave Jones: yeah, value for
value, he said, he said to be to

952
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:38,540
ask that if anybody wants to
help him, he's open call. Very

953
01:05:38,540 --> 01:05:42,100
nice there, yeah, there's,
evidently, serious about it, and

954
01:05:42,100 --> 01:05:43,840
gonna get some work done on
that.

955
01:05:44,860 --> 01:05:48,520
Adam Curry: I am on the beta for
fountain. And, you know, so

956
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:52,240
Oscar already launched the music
tab in 1.15 I think, which is

957
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:57,640
very cool. And now they have
fountain radio, so kind of the

958
01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:00,720
way they have, remember, they
had that test page on a on a web

959
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:04,560
page, so that that's in the app
now. Oh, cool. Yeah, that's very

960
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:06,720
cool. It's a great way to
discover music. I love that

961
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:08,520
they're doing that. I think
that's really cool.

962
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:14,520
Dave Jones: Uh, Nate, Nathan,
Nathan, I'm working with a few

963
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:21,380
of the apps to get some direct,
uh, some like, more direct URL

964
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:27,260
launching support, and I'm going
to push that stuff to your repo

965
01:06:27,260 --> 01:06:32,420
as as that becomes better. Now
you're

966
01:06:32,419 --> 01:06:36,379
Adam Curry: literally talking to
the tro to the boardroom. No one

967
01:06:36,379 --> 01:06:39,619
listen to the podcast knows what
you're talking about, yeah,

968
01:06:39,620 --> 01:06:41,740
Dave Jones: but you should have
been here. That's my, oh, I'm

969
01:06:41,739 --> 01:06:44,019
Adam Curry: sorry. Okay, all
right.

970
01:06:47,260 --> 01:06:50,560
Dave Jones: The So, and Nathan
said, you know, basically he

971
01:06:50,560 --> 01:06:53,920
wants more, because he keeps the
sort of master list of how,

972
01:06:54,700 --> 01:06:56,620
Adam Curry: yeah, yeah, that's
right, how to, how to launch

973
01:06:56,620 --> 01:06:57,880
him. Yes, that's correct, right?
He

974
01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:02,640
Dave Jones: does have that. And
so I've been so far, Frank

975
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:07,440
Franco has added direct URL
support for customatic links.

976
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:10,920
Oh, cool. So you can do
customatic colon, slash, slash

977
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:14,160
the feed URL that's in the test
flight version right now.

978
01:07:14,580 --> 01:07:16,380
Adam Curry: Well, since we're in
the in the board meeting, we're

979
01:07:16,380 --> 01:07:21,800
doing this. I have a bug report
for for Nathan. So when, so

980
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:34,400
whenever I want to send a link
to a lit episode from episodes

981
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:37,280
that FM The title is undefined.

982
01:07:39,199 --> 01:07:41,079
Dave Jones: Oh, interesting,
yeah. Like, would that happen

983
01:07:41,079 --> 01:07:44,679
right now to our show, let me
take a look. Let me see, let's

984
01:07:44,679 --> 01:07:48,039
go to let me click on the boot
on the Toot, toot.

985
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:56,320
Adam Curry: I think so. Let me
see podcasting 2.0 podcast.

986
01:07:56,920 --> 01:08:00,400
There it is, episodes, live,

987
01:08:01,719 --> 01:08:03,059
Dave Jones: yeah. Here it is.
Listen, yeah, and

988
01:08:03,060 --> 01:08:07,620
Adam Curry: see, look at the
title bar. Undefined. See the

989
01:08:07,620 --> 01:08:10,500
title bar if you look at the
title of the title bar of your

990
01:08:10,500 --> 01:08:10,980
tab.

991
01:08:12,300 --> 01:08:15,120
Dave Jones: Months is podcasting
two point. No, no, I haven't

992
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:16,260
clicked into the episode. Yeah,

993
01:08:16,260 --> 01:08:19,380
Adam Curry: click into the
episode. Okay, all right. Yeah,

994
01:08:19,380 --> 01:08:21,680
it does live bug reports,
everybody,

995
01:08:23,479 --> 01:08:25,639
Dave Jones: yep, undefined,
you're undefined, I'm

996
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:27,980
Adam Curry: undefined. I've
been, I've been trying to remind

997
01:08:27,980 --> 01:08:29,960
myself to report that bug, and
now I did it.

998
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:32,540
Dave Jones: That's a great
that'd be a great t shirt.

999
01:08:32,540 --> 01:08:34,820
Adam Curry: I'm undefined. No,
it's just undefined,

1000
01:08:37,699 --> 01:08:41,259
Dave Jones: undefined, yeah,
okay, so and the other one that

1001
01:08:41,259 --> 01:08:45,639
we've that's that I have
discovered, and I don't think

1002
01:08:45,639 --> 01:08:48,879
that this is on the repo for
Nathan. Stuff is that you can

1003
01:08:48,879 --> 01:08:56,799
launch Alex from podcast Guru
said, if you you can launch

1004
01:08:56,799 --> 01:09:05,879
podcast guru using a deep link
URL. So this would be, let me go

1005
01:09:05,879 --> 01:09:08,699
here. Let me go over here and
make sure I'm given the right

1006
01:09:08,879 --> 01:09:11,759
URL format. Hang on one second
radio

1007
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:28,580
development. Okay, so if you go
to versus feed, if you do ape,

1008
01:09:29,540 --> 01:09:32,660
that's not on here, oh, I gotta
go to my phone, my bed. Sorry,

1009
01:09:32,660 --> 01:09:35,540
I'm trying to find the link so I
can give the exact so while

1010
01:09:35,540 --> 01:09:36,260
you're doing that, I

1011
01:09:36,259 --> 01:09:39,619
Adam Curry: have another bug
report with episodes that FM,

1012
01:09:40,099 --> 01:09:47,739
no, no, no. When, when launching
a deep URL to open on fountain

1013
01:09:49,419 --> 01:09:51,399
on Android, the app crashes,

1014
01:09:53,380 --> 01:09:58,300
Dave Jones: okay, yeah. Oscar is
also putting in a straight link.

1015
01:09:58,540 --> 01:10:00,660
I talked to him about it, too.
He. I

1016
01:10:00,660 --> 01:10:02,760
Adam Curry: want a queer link.
If you don't mind, I'm not.

1017
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:09,840
Dave Jones: You would. Where's
numb? Everything's crashing over

1018
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:11,940
here on me. I'm, I'm just in
such a

1019
01:10:11,939 --> 01:10:13,859
Adam Curry: world of hurt. What
are you doing? Mine? What are

1020
01:10:13,859 --> 01:10:16,079
you doing? Apple notes

1021
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:19,020
Dave Jones: crashed now. What
now when? Apple I

1022
01:10:19,020 --> 01:10:21,920
Adam Curry: love it. Tina will
share me also. I'll send this to

1023
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:24,740
you on email, and I get an apple
notes, and then you click on it

1024
01:10:24,740 --> 01:10:30,080
and says you have to log in.
Like, no,

1025
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:33,740
Dave Jones: I don't think so.
No, you're being the appleness

1026
01:10:33,740 --> 01:10:36,320
is being too helpful. This is
the stupidest thing. Oh, here it

1027
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:40,960
is. All right. So the URL is
app, dot. Podcast

1028
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:52,480
guru.io/podcast/capital, x and
then the full Feed URL, hex

1029
01:10:52,480 --> 01:10:58,000
encoded. So just do a straight
Oh, okay, Hex encoding of the

1030
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:03,960
characters and append that after
the capital X, and that that

1031
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:07,380
will have confirmed it worse,
that will open podcast guru to

1032
01:11:07,380 --> 01:11:08,400
that exact feed.

1033
01:11:08,759 --> 01:11:11,999
Adam Curry: It's amazing. All
Apple has to do is just let you

1034
01:11:11,999 --> 01:11:16,199
set a default app and all these
problems would be solved for 80%

1035
01:11:17,939 --> 01:11:21,559
it's amazing. It's amazing
because Android does it already.

1036
01:11:21,559 --> 01:11:27,199
Don't they do podcasts, colon,
slash, slash, I think so.

1037
01:11:28,399 --> 01:11:32,959
Dave Jones: We need an Android
person to to let us know that I

1038
01:11:32,959 --> 01:11:37,099
ordered an Android phone for
development. What did you order?

1039
01:11:37,099 --> 01:11:42,519
Ordered? Actually ordered two,
ordered that small device that

1040
01:11:42,519 --> 01:11:43,539
you have, the cat, the

1041
01:11:43,540 --> 01:11:46,780
Adam Curry: cat s 22 was my
driver, man, my daily driver.

1042
01:11:46,780 --> 01:11:49,060
You're gonna love it. You're
gonna want nothing else but this

1043
01:11:49,060 --> 01:11:52,900
phone, the cat, yeah, it's
fantastic.

1044
01:11:53,319 --> 01:11:56,919
Dave Jones: And then I ordered,
uh, cow. What was that other

1045
01:11:56,919 --> 01:12:00,219
thing? I ordered galaxies, like
a larger, a larger screen phone.

1046
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:04,859
It wasn't, it was a larger
screen phone, just because I

1047
01:12:04,859 --> 01:12:08,099
needed, I wanted both to test
with, see what the different,

1048
01:12:08,099 --> 01:12:11,759
you know, covers, sort of all
that thing. But I've been

1049
01:12:11,759 --> 01:12:13,799
meaning to do that forever,
because there's this whole

1050
01:12:13,799 --> 01:12:16,199
world, like podcast addict. I
don't even know what it looks

1051
01:12:16,199 --> 01:12:18,479
like. Never used it before.

1052
01:12:19,019 --> 01:12:23,119
Adam Curry: It has ads, yeah, if
you, if you're not a if you

1053
01:12:23,119 --> 01:12:26,179
don't pay for it, it has ads,
little banners, kind of old

1054
01:12:26,179 --> 01:12:28,279
school that way. It's like, oh,
look at those little, cute

1055
01:12:28,279 --> 01:12:28,639
banners.

1056
01:12:29,660 --> 01:12:32,960
Dave Jones: Oh, here it is. It's
the Motorola. Oh, goodness, oh,

1057
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:36,740
goodness, Motorola Moto. And

1058
01:12:36,740 --> 01:12:41,620
Adam Curry: we need a pod. LP,
we need a Chios. I can't find my

1059
01:12:41,620 --> 01:12:45,580
kyos. I had a kyos flip phone,
but I can't find it anymore. Is

1060
01:12:45,580 --> 01:12:45,700
the

1061
01:12:45,700 --> 01:12:52,000
Dave Jones: Motorola Moto, g5,
g20, 23 Yeah, Android 13. I hope

1062
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:53,200
that's good enough. Anyway, I'm

1063
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:55,240
Adam Curry: feeling a lot of
developer pain, brother, I'm

1064
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:59,980
feeling your developer pain. I'm
feeling Marco's developer pain.

1065
01:12:59,980 --> 01:13:02,340
Oh, my God, he's going through
so much. Developer, pain.

1066
01:13:02,820 --> 01:13:05,820
Dave Jones: Marco Armin, oh,
yeah, really? Oh,

1067
01:13:05,820 --> 01:13:10,380
Adam Curry: come on. Oh, when? I
mean, he did a complete

1068
01:13:10,380 --> 01:13:13,200
relaunch. You know, you know
what happens? Like, stuff

1069
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:16,020
doesn't work. Stuff breaks.
Stuff works differently. People

1070
01:13:16,020 --> 01:13:19,320
are mad. People are upset.
They're yelling. I mean, I'm

1071
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:22,520
getting people like, boosted and
go through, ah, this new

1072
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:25,820
fountain that might be the
Lightning Network. Okay, you

1073
01:13:25,820 --> 01:13:31,040
know, it's the pain, the pain of
refactoring, of upgrades, as

1074
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:34,340
it's so people have no idea.
These developers just make it

1075
01:13:34,340 --> 01:13:36,980
look easy. Oh, it's just a
little, a little icon on your on

1076
01:13:36,980 --> 01:13:39,560
your phone. Click open. It
should work. Everything perfect.

1077
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:41,680
For free. I um,

1078
01:13:43,540 --> 01:13:48,280
Dave Jones: having, having now
done some, some serious UI work,

1079
01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:52,300
which I haven't done in a, you
know, a few years, like, like,

1080
01:13:52,300 --> 01:13:55,660
real UI work where I'm actually
trying to make it look good, not

1081
01:13:55,660 --> 01:13:57,160
just I'm

1082
01:13:57,159 --> 01:14:00,039
Adam Curry: withholding comment
is

1083
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:05,400
Dave Jones: it is so tedious.
Yeah, I know, so tedious, even

1084
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:08,940
with the modern tools, which are
great. I mean, like, tailwind is

1085
01:14:08,940 --> 01:14:14,700
great. The modern CSS standards
are wonderful. Like, grid, the

1086
01:14:14,700 --> 01:14:18,240
grid system and the Flex System
are amazing. Like, all this

1087
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:22,700
stuff is wonderful, but it's
still just so tedious. You make

1088
01:14:22,700 --> 01:14:33,080
one change and then you like the
other day, I found that for some

1089
01:14:33,080 --> 01:14:41,440
reason, flex, flex, justify
start, is the default on every

1090
01:14:41,440 --> 01:14:42,880
browser, except,

1091
01:14:44,500 --> 01:14:47,980
Adam Curry: except edge. Oh,
goodness, of course, of course.

1092
01:14:47,980 --> 01:14:49,360
Edge would do something
different,

1093
01:14:50,019 --> 01:14:53,559
Dave Jones: yeah. And so then
you have to, then, you know, I

1094
01:14:53,559 --> 01:14:56,079
have to go back, and I'm like,
why is it doing this? Why is it,

1095
01:14:56,079 --> 01:14:58,839
why is it centering this content
instead of putting it left

1096
01:14:58,839 --> 01:15:02,039
justified? And you. Works
everywhere. Why is this working?

1097
01:15:02,579 --> 01:15:06,779
And then I go, and it's because
it was working everywhere else.

1098
01:15:06,779 --> 01:15:09,539
I just assumed it was worried,
but I had to go and explicitly

1099
01:15:09,539 --> 01:15:14,159
define justified and left. It's
just wow, tedious. So tedious.

1100
01:15:17,159 --> 01:15:21,679
Yeah, Everything's ruined. To
feel the pain. Everything's

1101
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:24,860
Adam Curry: ruined. Just
Everything's ruined. Oh, hold on

1102
01:15:24,860 --> 01:15:29,180
a second. Yes, I will, Alex, I
will put your contact details in

1103
01:15:29,180 --> 01:15:32,600
the show notes, you bet. So
people want to work on Monero

1104
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:38,480
with them. Okay, in touch with
them. Absolutely done. Well, let

1105
01:15:38,660 --> 01:15:41,860
me see, should we thank some
people? Because I have to still

1106
01:15:41,860 --> 01:15:44,260
get you out of time. We got the
summer hours here. Let me go

1107
01:15:44,260 --> 01:15:47,020
through some of the boosters
that have come in. Oy

1108
01:15:47,020 --> 01:15:53,920
steenberger, 3333, and that was
for rebel hero. And he says to

1109
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:57,640
all the rebels out there, heard
it on podcasting 2.0 yes, thank

1110
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:00,300
you for for that's always good
to put it in there, because

1111
01:16:00,300 --> 01:16:03,960
doesn't always show up
everywhere where you heard it

1112
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:09,840
from Flo Gnar Kyle 1776 to go
podcasting, Freedom boost. Have

1113
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:14,160
a great weekend. Thank you very
much. Eric PP, 3333 for rebel

1114
01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:18,000
hero. 1000 from blueberry, who
says more play walls. Yes,

1115
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:21,440
please and thank you. Instead of
paying for a podcast, pay for a

1116
01:16:21,440 --> 01:16:25,580
hearty recovery potion for your
favorite hero, when RPGs and PC

1117
01:16:25,580 --> 01:16:30,260
2.0 combined forces you speak in
riddles, my friend, you speak in

1118
01:16:30,260 --> 01:16:36,860
noodles. Let me see br, let me
know about Stephen Bell's

1119
01:16:36,860 --> 01:16:40,840
comment with 1000 sets. Thank
you. I found it sir libre,

1120
01:16:40,900 --> 01:16:43,840
lightning thrashes, 1111. Thanks
for making podcasting great

1121
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:46,660
again. And remember for all your
resume and job search needs,

1122
01:16:46,660 --> 01:16:49,900
visit image makers. Inc.com,
that's image makers. Inc, with

1123
01:16:49,900 --> 01:16:54,520
the k.com while listening to
lightning thrashes. This is a

1124
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:56,560
very, very weird crossover

1125
01:16:56,680 --> 01:16:58,120
Dave Jones: cross promotion,
yes. And then

1126
01:16:58,119 --> 01:17:01,199
Adam Curry: we have that 1
million SATs from anonymous,

1127
01:17:01,259 --> 01:17:05,459
although I'm seeing weirdly in
the This is very strange in the

1128
01:17:06,899 --> 01:17:11,339
in my helipad, it says 1% split.
No, that, no, that's right,

1129
01:17:11,339 --> 01:17:14,459
that'd be one, yeah. So that
must Wow. And you know what,

1130
01:17:14,579 --> 01:17:21,919
Daniel J Lewis was still in the
splits. Oh, Daniel got a bonus

1131
01:17:21,919 --> 01:17:22,399
today

1132
01:17:23,479 --> 01:17:27,019
Dave Jones: in the in the in in
an out on the Al Gore scale

1133
01:17:27,019 --> 01:17:29,899
hills, 273 Hiroshi mclas,

1134
01:17:31,700 --> 01:17:34,520
Adam Curry: beautiful salted
crayon with a short row of

1135
01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:38,060
ducks. 2222 howdy boardroom. We
had a fun discussion the V for V

1136
01:17:38,060 --> 01:17:41,200
jockeys channel that's on
telegram before the show with

1137
01:17:41,200 --> 01:17:44,800
shares versus percentages. Oh,
we're back to that. For fun, I

1138
01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:47,920
looked up my feet and sovereign
fees. I had a total of 9,200%

1139
01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:53,560
splits for five splits, whole
lot. Stephen B was breaking it

1140
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:55,660
down for us, but if you all
could take a crack at it, would

1141
01:17:55,660 --> 01:18:01,500
love to hear it go podcasting. I
don't understand. I don't know

1142
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:05,880
he yet it's shares versus
percentages. He's willing

1143
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:08,280
Dave Jones: to break to hear
somebody go over how it's

1144
01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:09,000
calculated.

1145
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:12,660
Adam Curry: Yeah, so why do
we're not gonna do that today,

1146
01:18:12,660 --> 01:18:19,080
next week, next week. But how do
you get 9200 percentages? I have

1147
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:29,000
to go look at that. Yes. Crayon,
of course, no. Eric PP, 777, and

1148
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:33,800
we got a 7777 from cotton gin.
It br milkshake boost from salty

1149
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:41,020
crayon. 333, another, anonymous
with 777, and we've hit the

1150
01:18:41,020 --> 01:18:41,560
delimiter.

1151
01:18:42,820 --> 01:18:46,300
Dave Jones: We got, um, speaking
of Buzz Brow from earlier, with

1152
01:18:46,300 --> 01:18:50,080
the subscription, uh, talk, they
gave us

1153
01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:53,560
Unknown: $1,000

1154
01:18:55,060 --> 01:18:57,400
Adam Curry: keeping it alive,
brothers, thank you so much.

1155
01:18:57,460 --> 01:19:01,260
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you so much. That's

1156
01:19:01,260 --> 01:19:04,200
appreciated. We are value for
value. After all, that's how

1157
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:07,500
everything keeps running, and
they care and they show it.

1158
01:19:09,180 --> 01:19:11,640
Dave Jones: Tim at technology
one Inc, $100

1159
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:17,099
Adam Curry: Wow. Tim, thank you.
That's great. That's a new he's

1160
01:19:17,099 --> 01:19:18,479
a new donor. Is he not?

1161
01:19:18,899 --> 01:19:22,459
Dave Jones: He is? Yeah, he's a
one time dinner. Let me defrag

1162
01:19:22,459 --> 01:19:30,319
it exactly. Thank you. He says,
Thank you for this service.

1163
01:19:30,379 --> 01:19:36,499
You're welcome to Oh, let's see
we got some boosts. Where's our

1164
01:19:36,559 --> 01:19:41,859
boots? At you? Flip over to
boosts. Oh, wait, wait, wait,

1165
01:19:41,859 --> 01:19:46,899
oh, I flipped over to boost, and
I just boost when, when I

1166
01:19:46,899 --> 01:19:53,139
flipped over, I just happened to
see from 55 minutes ago,

1167
01:19:54,339 --> 01:20:00,539
donation from rss.com
ben@rss.com 1100 OH. 11

1168
01:20:02,100 --> 01:20:07,080
Adam Curry: Blaze only Impala, a
row of satchel of Richards.

1169
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:10,920
Dave Jones: He says, Hey Adam
and Dave, a row of sticks and

1170
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:13,920
bricks to add to the frame of
the podcast index and in honor

1171
01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:16,560
and celebration of Aaron
Schwartz's birthday on November

1172
01:20:16,560 --> 01:20:16,680
the

1173
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:18,600
Adam Curry: eighth. Oh, that's
right. Oh, thanks, brother.

1174
01:20:18,660 --> 01:20:19,620
That's so cool. That's

1175
01:20:19,620 --> 01:20:21,540
Dave Jones: a good one. Keep up
the great work from your

1176
01:20:21,540 --> 01:20:23,660
friends@rss.com go podcasting.

1177
01:20:23,660 --> 01:20:28,220
Adam Curry: Yes, you got
podcasting? Wow, nice.

1178
01:20:29,780 --> 01:20:32,660
Dave Jones: Yes. Thank you guys.
Appreciate this. So much support

1179
01:20:32,660 --> 01:20:36,680
today. This is lovely. Love
this, yeah. Thank you so much.

1180
01:20:37,700 --> 01:20:43,900
Adam Curry: Let's see that's
about 16. Well, what is it? 1.6

1181
01:20:44,620 --> 01:20:45,820
million sets?

1182
01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:51,280
Dave Jones: What 1111? 16
million? No,

1183
01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:52,840
Adam Curry: no, no, no, no, it's
1.6

1184
01:20:53,920 --> 01:21:01,080
Dave Jones: 1.6 okay, I've
totally screwed up my inbox. Oh,

1185
01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:03,540
I've got a sword by size. That's
what did I do that?

1186
01:21:03,660 --> 01:21:08,460
Adam Curry: Oh, bad idea. Never
know, because we always wind up

1187
01:21:08,460 --> 01:21:09,840
at the bottom. That's

1188
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:14,280
Dave Jones: right, speak for
yourself. Oh, we got music,

1189
01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:19,380
Mama. That's Julie. Julie
Costello, 10,000 SAS, Thank you,

1190
01:21:19,380 --> 01:21:22,940
Julie. Thank you fountain,
beautiful she says, need to

1191
01:21:22,940 --> 01:21:25,700
catch up soon. Just Yes, brunch
with the podcast, lawyer about

1192
01:21:25,700 --> 01:21:28,400
licensing and V for V music
distribution chat soon. Went

1193
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:29,840
back from California. Yes,

1194
01:21:29,900 --> 01:21:32,720
Adam Curry: you know she was,
she and Jim were in Florida

1195
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:36,620
helping clean up for Helene.
Such beautiful people. Oh,

1196
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:38,420
Dave Jones: they're, they're
great people. They really are.

1197
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:41,860
Oh, another music mama, 5000
says. She says, yeah. AV, for V

1198
01:21:41,860 --> 01:21:47,860
music, she gives a not a nostr
key, okay, not an in pub.

1199
01:21:52,180 --> 01:21:54,580
Thanks, AC and DJ for all you do
for music,

1200
01:21:55,720 --> 01:21:57,520
Adam Curry: then we're doing it
for love,

1201
01:21:58,899 --> 01:22:01,439
Dave Jones: anonymous, 100 sets
listening on podcasting to

1202
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:04,739
Dotto, thank you. That's for the
best for the tunes. Steve Webb,

1203
01:22:04,739 --> 01:22:08,279
hey, the podcaster. Steve Webb,
7777 through fountain. He says,

1204
01:22:08,279 --> 01:22:14,699
love it. Heard it on podcasting
2.0 episode 197, all right. And

1205
01:22:15,239 --> 01:22:18,719
the delimiter, comic strip.
Blogger 23,000 says this is from

1206
01:22:18,719 --> 01:22:23,119
last week because he didn't
realize we were on hiatus. He

1207
01:22:23,119 --> 01:22:27,439
says, howdy, Adam and Dave, are
you ready to take your podcast

1208
01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:34,579
from good to great? Dive, dive
into podcast tips with Rob

1209
01:22:34,579 --> 01:22:38,539
Greenlee. Oh, wow. He's doing a
promo for Rob Greenlee

1210
01:22:39,140 --> 01:22:41,200
Adam Curry: right on All right,
that's fantastic. I

1211
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:45,040
Dave Jones: love that reaching
way out. Dive into podcast tips

1212
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:48,280
with Rob Greenlee, where every
episode is packed with

1213
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:53,140
actionable advice, the latest
trends and insider tips on

1214
01:22:53,140 --> 01:22:57,100
making your podcast stand out.
Whether you're a beginner or a

1215
01:22:57,100 --> 01:23:00,780
seasoned podcaster, please
subscribe in your podcast player

1216
01:23:00,780 --> 01:23:03,840
apps or directly on their
website, podcast

1217
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:07,320
tips.blueberry.net. Yo. CSB,

1218
01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:10,380
Adam Curry: oh, thank you. CSB,

1219
01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:14,400
Dave Jones: we got some
monthlies. We got silicon

1220
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:20,960
florist, $10 Chris Cowan, $5
Paul Saltzman, $22.22 Derek J

1221
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:28,040
visker, $21 yarn Rosenstein, $1
Damon cast Jack, $15 Jeremy

1222
01:23:28,040 --> 01:23:33,440
gerds $5 New Media Productions
that's Todd and Rob. $30 gene

1223
01:23:33,440 --> 01:23:39,980
Liverman $5 Michael Hall $5.50
Timothy voice, $10 Satan's

1224
01:23:39,980 --> 01:23:47,380
lawyer, $5 holistine Bear $5
Charles current $5 Michael

1225
01:23:47,380 --> 01:23:53,320
Goggin $5 Jorge Hernandez $5
James Sullivan 10. Christopher

1226
01:23:53,320 --> 01:23:58,060
Reimer 10. Cohen Glasgow, five
and Jordan dunville $10

1227
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:00,780
Adam Curry: Oh, wonderful. Thank
you all so much. We are, of

1228
01:24:00,780 --> 01:24:03,900
course, value for value. The
whole index runs value for

1229
01:24:03,900 --> 01:24:09,660
value. No pay walls here, no no
premium content, no bonus stuff,

1230
01:24:09,660 --> 01:24:12,900
no. It's all out in the open,
all for you to enjoy. You can

1231
01:24:12,900 --> 01:24:16,320
support us with your time, your
talent, your treasure. Join our

1232
01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:20,600
community. Podcast index, dot
social. Add your feed to

1233
01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:25,700
podcast. Index.org, jump in,
help out. And of course, we

1234
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:29,900
always love your treasure, your
financial support, which you can

1235
01:24:30,500 --> 01:24:33,980
help out by boosting us when
we're doing the show, just to

1236
01:24:33,980 --> 01:24:37,640
get a modern podcast app or go
to podcast index.org, down at

1237
01:24:37,640 --> 01:24:41,200
the bottom is one big red
donation button that takes you

1238
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:45,820
to our Fiat fund coupon
interface, known as PayPal. You

1239
01:24:45,820 --> 01:24:49,120
can also do that from a lot of
the modern podcast apps. You can

1240
01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:53,860
tap on support this podcast.
There's little, little stack of

1241
01:24:53,860 --> 01:24:56,980
dollar signs. You can get to it
directly from there. Value for

1242
01:24:56,980 --> 01:25:00,780
value, it is more than just a
monetization. Model, it's a

1243
01:25:00,780 --> 01:25:02,340
lifestyle, and it's a cult.

1244
01:25:05,160 --> 01:25:06,000
Dave Jones: And a lifestyle,

1245
01:25:06,900 --> 01:25:08,880
Adam Curry: is there a
difference? Hey, that's

1246
01:25:08,880 --> 01:25:15,780
interesting. But just a boost
came in from a second boost came

1247
01:25:15,780 --> 01:25:19,860
in from Chad F says the 1
million sat boost is fake news.

1248
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:22,520
I'll post about it on the mask
that I want to get home, huh?

1249
01:25:23,180 --> 01:25:24,920
Fake News. Fake News.

1250
01:25:25,340 --> 01:25:27,440
Dave Jones: No, where we were.
We scammed

1251
01:25:27,559 --> 01:25:32,419
Adam Curry: what was sent
through curio caster. So I don't

1252
01:25:32,419 --> 01:25:33,679
know if you, I don't know. Well,

1253
01:25:33,680 --> 01:25:35,600
Dave Jones: I mean, you can
always fake a TLV record.

1254
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:39,260
There's no, there's no
confirmation to that. Did it say

1255
01:25:39,260 --> 01:25:42,280
that you can fake all? I mean,
you can fake the TLVs. It's

1256
01:25:42,280 --> 01:25:45,940
like, it's like an email. You
can, like, you can put anything

1257
01:25:45,940 --> 01:25:47,020
in the from address.

1258
01:25:48,399 --> 01:25:52,659
Adam Curry: Oh, hold on a
second. No. I mean, let me, this

1259
01:25:52,659 --> 01:26:00,099
is interesting. Let me see. I
mean, I'm seeing, I mean, it

1260
01:26:00,099 --> 01:26:04,739
tripped all the tripped, all the
bits. Oh, 35 minutes ago. I can,

1261
01:26:04,799 --> 01:26:06,299
I can load the TLV

1262
01:26:07,979 --> 01:26:09,359
Dave Jones: on your helipad,
yeah,

1263
01:26:10,500 --> 01:26:15,240
Adam Curry: no, I see the total
value, M sat total, yeah, but

1264
01:26:15,240 --> 01:26:18,780
Dave Jones: that's in the TLV,
right, yeah. You can fake the

1265
01:26:18,780 --> 01:26:20,720
to, did your balance go up by a
million cents?

1266
01:26:20,840 --> 01:26:23,660
Adam Curry: Well, no, because I
only get 1% on the on my note,

1267
01:26:23,660 --> 01:26:26,180
the rest goes to podcast index.

1268
01:26:26,900 --> 01:26:31,520
Dave Jones: Did it get did it go
up by by 1% of a million cents?

1269
01:26:32,180 --> 01:26:38,120
Adam Curry: I don't know. I
wasn't paying attention. I don't

1270
01:26:38,120 --> 01:26:43,300
look at that stuff. Hmm,
interesting. All right, well,

1271
01:26:43,300 --> 01:26:51,340
we'll find out. But the value m,
SAT, 123120, hold on, a second.

1272
01:26:52,780 --> 01:27:00,780
No, yeah, so I so I would have
received 10,000 SATs, 1% I'll

1273
01:27:00,780 --> 01:27:04,140
have to say, oh, I can download
the TLV. Wow, this helipad

1274
01:27:04,140 --> 01:27:07,620
thing, man, that's outrageous.
Cool. That was just cool.

1275
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:10,320
Dave Jones: Whoever built that
deserves it, I know,

1276
01:27:13,859 --> 01:27:15,779
Adam Curry: yeah. And I mean,
Eric PP, but whoever's

1277
01:27:15,779 --> 01:27:17,399
maintaining it deserves a pat on
the

1278
01:27:17,399 --> 01:27:20,039
Dave Jones: back. But yes, thank
you.

1279
01:27:21,420 --> 01:27:23,840
Adam Curry: Let me see. Oh, so
they're already showing this in

1280
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:27,500
the chat. F is showing it? I
don't know.

1281
01:27:27,560 --> 01:27:31,520
Dave Jones: In the boardroom,
yeah, I don't know. I don't

1282
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:33,980
know. We either got we either
got scammed

1283
01:27:34,099 --> 01:27:36,979
Adam Curry: or doesn't I'm
happy. I'm happy no matter what.

1284
01:27:36,979 --> 01:27:39,739
I'm happy either way. And fun,
yeah, exactly. We had a good

1285
01:27:39,739 --> 01:27:43,179
time. All right, everybody, that
is the the board meeting for

1286
01:27:43,179 --> 01:27:46,839
today. Dave back. You're coming
up on another busy season, I

1287
01:27:46,839 --> 01:27:49,899
guess. Oh, what is it? No,
December. It's not. This is okay

1288
01:27:49,899 --> 01:27:51,999
right now this month, or you
still have right

1289
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:54,100
Dave Jones: now to say, Yeah,
December. December is the

1290
01:27:54,100 --> 01:27:57,280
busiest time for me. But right
now we're in a, we're in a cool

1291
01:27:57,280 --> 01:27:58,600
we're in cool down here, cool
down

1292
01:27:58,600 --> 01:28:00,360
Adam Curry: period. Well, I'm
glad, I'm glad you're back,

1293
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:02,700
brother, it was good to have
another board meeting. I missed

1294
01:28:02,700 --> 01:28:04,560
it last week. I felt very
strange.

1295
01:28:05,160 --> 01:28:09,720
Dave Jones: I was in the middle
of nowhere. There's a, we're in

1296
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:13,320
the sipsy wilderness, which is
up in north Alabama. It's a

1297
01:28:13,320 --> 01:28:15,000
designated wilderness area.

1298
01:28:15,360 --> 01:28:18,300
Adam Curry: So there's, there's,
oh, no, a designated Wilderness

1299
01:28:18,300 --> 01:28:19,320
Area, hmm,

1300
01:28:19,380 --> 01:28:22,580
Dave Jones: yeah. It's like,
it's, there's no, there's no,

1301
01:28:22,640 --> 01:28:27,800
like Rangers, there's nothing. I
mean, it is your own. Melissa

1302
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:29,600
Adam Curry: could have killed
you, and no one would have

1303
01:28:29,600 --> 01:28:30,020
known.

1304
01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:33,440
Dave Jones: Thanks for putting
that in my head for next time.

1305
01:28:36,140 --> 01:28:38,900
Adam Curry: Hey brother, have
yourself a great weekend. All

1306
01:28:38,900 --> 01:28:41,920
right, everybody. We'll be back
next Friday, right here in the

1307
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:43,420
boardroom of podcasting 2.0

1308
01:28:59,560 --> 01:29:04,140
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1309
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1310
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