1 00:00:00,660 --> 00:00:04,440 Adam Curry: Podcasting 2.0 for September 6, 2024, episode 192, 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:11,520 lunchroom. Quickie. Well, hello everybody. Hello boardroom. 3 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:15,600 Welcome to podcasting 2.0 your weekly board meeting where all 4 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,360 things podcasting are discussed. You want to know what's really 5 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,320 going on. You want to tune into this one. If you're a nerd, 6 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,680 you're in luck. We are the only boardroom that meets during 7 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,160 board member vacations. I'm Adam curry here in the cruise ship, 8 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,000 capital of Mexico, just north of Puerto Vallarta, and in Alabama, 9 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,940 the man behind the new BlackBerry takedown list say 10 00:00:34,940 --> 00:00:39,020 hello to my friend on the other end. The one, the only Mr. Dave 11 00:00:39,020 --> 00:00:40,280 Jones, 12 00:00:42,500 --> 00:00:46,660 Dave Jones: a fun that that cashews, this, this bowl of 13 00:00:46,660 --> 00:00:48,280 cashews here, if you can hear it, 14 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,920 Adam Curry: yes, I hear your cashews, your cashews. Yes, your 15 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:51,580 cashews. 16 00:00:52,540 --> 00:00:55,480 Dave Jones: It's, it's like a, it's like a quick trail mix to 17 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,720 go along with the beef shake. And it's like cashews and 18 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:00,300 raisins, you know, why 19 00:01:00,300 --> 00:01:02,520 Adam Curry: don't you fiber? Why don't you just mix it all into 20 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,880 one so you can have the cashews ground right into your beef 21 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,820 shake. No, 22 00:01:10,140 --> 00:01:12,360 Dave Jones: the cashews are soft so I can chew them. And, you 23 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:14,100 know, mostly don't hear me, but 24 00:01:14,100 --> 00:01:16,200 Adam Curry: you might have a new product if you if you could do 25 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,900 that, it might be something that could be marketable. Hey, I'm an 26 00:01:18,900 --> 00:01:20,340 entrepreneur. I'm always thinking, 27 00:01:20,940 --> 00:01:25,280 Dave Jones: it's like Bill, it's like Bill Maher said about like 28 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,860 young people thinking that communism is great 29 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,640 Adam Curry: socialism. I don't know if they think comedy is 30 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,020 socialism. Probably some 31 00:01:33,020 --> 00:01:36,680 Dave Jones: do, some do comrade. But I mean, like that. He said, 32 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,620 you know, just because an idea is new doesn't mean it's great. 33 00:01:39,620 --> 00:01:44,380 You can. What was this thing, he said you can cook in the 34 00:01:44,380 --> 00:01:46,780 bathroom and shit in the kitchen. It's a new idea, but 35 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,040 Adam Curry: I haven't listened to a Bill Maher podcast in a 36 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:52,660 while, to be honest. He 37 00:01:52,660 --> 00:01:55,000 Dave Jones: got, he got on a string of stuff I wasn't 38 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,760 interested in, so I kind of he fell out of my rotation. Oh, 39 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,620 Adam Curry: yeah, that happens if he's on the floor. I'm here 40 00:02:02,340 --> 00:02:06,600 in Mexico, in the hotel room. And I'm always Mexico, yes, I'm 41 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,320 always, we're on vacation. Quotes, air quotes, vacation. 42 00:02:11,580 --> 00:02:16,260 I'm always amazed that it kind of works. And this is the new 43 00:02:16,260 --> 00:02:20,880 rig. This is, this is the new machine that you recommend that 44 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:26,600 I get, which is, oh, it's the Lenovo ThinkPad, the Oh, yeah, 45 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,080 Milka, yeah. It's great. Now here's what happened yesterday, 46 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:31,340 though, I'm a little concerned. 47 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,220 Dave Jones: Wait, by the way, I'm sorry I could not make it to 48 00:02:34,220 --> 00:02:36,020 your surprise party. I wasn't. 49 00:02:36,500 --> 00:02:39,380 Adam Curry: I know you were. I know I could 50 00:02:39,380 --> 00:02:42,220 Dave Jones: not make it because Melissa was out of town that 51 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,160 that same weekend, buddy, stay with my daughter. It's 52 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:46,240 Adam Curry: more than okay, 53 00:02:46,300 --> 00:02:48,220 Dave Jones: I tried. Man, I tried. I 54 00:02:48,220 --> 00:02:50,560 Adam Curry: know you did. Tina's like Dave, Dave, really tried. 55 00:02:50,920 --> 00:02:53,920 Dvorak didn't even answer the email invite. I said, Yeah, that 56 00:02:53,920 --> 00:02:58,000 makes sense. There's a difference in my podcast. 57 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,500 Pardons, it was, I gotta tell you. Man, I was blown away. I 58 00:03:01,500 --> 00:03:04,800 was surprised. There were people from all over the country who 59 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:09,000 came in for it on Labor Day weekend, no less, on Friday. My 60 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:09,480 plan 61 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,440 Dave Jones: was to do the My plan was to do the show and then 62 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,220 hop on a plane and then hop on a plane immediately and try to get 63 00:03:17,220 --> 00:03:20,040 there. I couldn't find anything that was going to work, so I was 64 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,700 trying to figure out how to do it halfway from a hotel room, 65 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,020 because you would, because if it was on the same day as the show, 66 00:03:27,020 --> 00:03:29,120 so if I'd have missed the show, yeah, I 67 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:34,040 Adam Curry: would have something. Yeah, it was for 68 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,400 those who don't know, my wife threw me a surprise party for my 69 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:43,000 60th birthday, and literally invited 60 people from all over 70 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,760 the country, and they came those 71 00:03:45,820 --> 00:03:47,980 Dave Jones: who I didn't know. She invited 60 people. Like, 72 00:03:47,980 --> 00:03:50,140 that was the magic. That's funny, yeah. 73 00:03:50,860 --> 00:03:53,500 Adam Curry: So it was, it was good. It was really good. 74 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:55,660 Dave Jones: Anyway, what were you saying? 75 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,840 Adam Curry: Yeah. So I set everything up here, and I had 76 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,340 already tested out the rig at home, of course, you know, which 77 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:07,200 always involves a an interesting combination of USB hubs and 78 00:04:07,380 --> 00:04:10,800 figuring out which port to put stuff in. There was a little 79 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:18,120 moment of fear, as for some reason one of the rodecaster duo 80 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:22,640 ports didn't come up, like, oh God. And then so I figured it 81 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:28,400 out. Then I get here, and I set it all up again, and I noticed, 82 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:33,560 Oh no, what? So for some reason, the we're doing currying the 83 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,920 keeper on Wednesday evening, and the and the Hindenburg recording 84 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,340 failed. And so of course, of course, I have the rodecaster 85 00:04:40,340 --> 00:04:42,880 running his backup. So I'm like, okay, that's no problem. So I'll 86 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:48,400 just pull it off the rodecaster. And so then I what I had not yet 87 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,300 installed was the rodecaster central software that you need 88 00:04:52,300 --> 00:04:56,440 to put it into transfer mode. So I got new machine, yeah, so I 89 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,180 got that, okay, and then it said, you can't transfer. Any 90 00:05:00,180 --> 00:05:04,800 files until you upgrade your rodecaster duo. Oh, no, with 91 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,880 firmware, yeah, this is you never want to do that. Never 92 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,300 want to do that. And so and so it works. I'm able to get the 93 00:05:12,300 --> 00:05:16,440 recording. But then the next day, I noticed that the second 94 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,980 USB audio device on the rodecaster, if it wasn't 95 00:05:19,980 --> 00:05:24,920 receiving any audio, it would just disconnect. And of course, 96 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,800 I use that for everything, so let me just check and make sure 97 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:34,160 it's working here. Let me see it is. And so I was really worried 98 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,060 during no agenda yesterday. But I guess if it's receiving sound 99 00:05:38,060 --> 00:05:42,520 up until a certain you know, I don't know if there's a timeout 100 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,960 I Daren O'Neal making me go into my control panel and turning off 101 00:05:47,380 --> 00:05:52,360 the windows. Man, those guys suck. So you just be able to go 102 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,560 into this other panel and you say, okay, don't power down USB 103 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:03,720 ports to save energy. And that the issue? Well, I thought so. 104 00:06:03,900 --> 00:06:07,020 And so that's no longer there. You have to now go into control 105 00:06:07,020 --> 00:06:12,540 panel, go into find the root hub. Yeah, the device in device 106 00:06:12,540 --> 00:06:15,900 manager, yeah, and, and, of course, these things are checked 107 00:06:15,900 --> 00:06:19,620 by default, which makes no sense. Yeah, because, you 108 00:06:19,620 --> 00:06:22,700 Dave Jones: know, everybody wants, everybody's you. What's 109 00:06:22,700 --> 00:06:25,340 killing the planet is everybody's USB ports. Yeah, 110 00:06:25,700 --> 00:06:28,820 that's, that's wonderful, exactly. 111 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,360 Adam Curry: And so I click those both off, and we do the show. 112 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:38,360 It's fine. And then maybe 15 minutes later, after we're done 113 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,860 with the show, the USB port had shut down again. So I'm like, 114 00:06:41,980 --> 00:06:45,640 oh, man, is there some time around? I mean, the thing that 115 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,880 really changed, of course, is the rodecaster. So I don't know. 116 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,300 And if you go search for USB problems with a rodecaster, 117 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:57,280 that's an ugly search, because it's everywhere. It's just like, 118 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,320 there's all kinds of and I think it's just a function of USB by 119 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:02,760 itself. I don't know it's, 120 00:07:03,659 --> 00:07:06,959 Dave Jones: well, this you the so you're on the duo. Yeah, 121 00:07:06,959 --> 00:07:11,159 right now, yeah. I'll, you know, based on my experience and and 122 00:07:11,159 --> 00:07:13,379 the experience that I've heard through the grapevine of other 123 00:07:13,379 --> 00:07:18,239 people, the duo is kind of a fragile product. Yeah. I mean, 124 00:07:18,239 --> 00:07:21,499 I'm not saying it's bad or people shouldn't get it, but 125 00:07:21,499 --> 00:07:24,679 it's, it seems fragile. Well, 126 00:07:24,679 --> 00:07:26,479 Adam Curry: you know, these things are hard to make, and 127 00:07:26,539 --> 00:07:29,299 particularly if you're going to try, I tried it, you're going to 128 00:07:29,299 --> 00:07:32,659 try and make it work with all different kinds of USB devices. 129 00:07:32,659 --> 00:07:36,619 And of course, they have two USB devices which actually have 130 00:07:36,619 --> 00:07:39,799 three different, you know, there's one virtual device, 131 00:07:39,799 --> 00:07:42,819 which is the chat, which is what you know, is the built in mix, 132 00:07:42,819 --> 00:07:46,659 minus anyway, I decided before we started this show, I just 133 00:07:46,659 --> 00:07:50,139 reboot the rodecaster. Maybe that'll make a difference. And 134 00:07:50,139 --> 00:07:53,139 so far so good. So let me just double check again, you know, 135 00:07:53,139 --> 00:07:56,139 just, I just have to hit that ding every 10 minutes. It's kind 136 00:07:56,139 --> 00:07:59,619 of like a dead man switch on a train. Yeah, if I don't hit 137 00:07:59,619 --> 00:08:03,119 that, if I don't hit that thing, it shuts down. Well, 138 00:08:03,119 --> 00:08:05,879 Dave Jones: I mean, I think, I think we get lulled into, based, 139 00:08:06,299 --> 00:08:13,139 based on how we grew up. We grew up with hardware that was the 140 00:08:13,139 --> 00:08:19,139 that where this had to say this. We grew up with with hardware 141 00:08:19,799 --> 00:08:27,079 that had its logic. Its logic was arranged as a series of 142 00:08:27,139 --> 00:08:32,599 tubes, tubes, tubes, or chips, or it was, it was do. The 143 00:08:32,599 --> 00:08:37,639 hardware itself was doing the logic. But yeah, now that 144 00:08:37,639 --> 00:08:41,739 doesn't end, but it's not like that anymore. Nowadays. It's the 145 00:08:41,739 --> 00:08:46,059 the the logic is, is buried in software which is running in a 146 00:08:46,059 --> 00:08:50,259 general purpose chip, yeah, or, you know, or many general 147 00:08:50,259 --> 00:08:53,439 purpose chips on the board, yeah, so, but we still look at 148 00:08:53,439 --> 00:08:56,979 this piece of hardware and we think about it as if it's 149 00:08:56,979 --> 00:09:01,559 something, as if it's the way things used to be. It's kind of 150 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:07,499 confusing that you're like, Why does rebooting my mix board? But 151 00:09:07,619 --> 00:09:10,559 because it's not really a mixing board. What it is is a computer 152 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,619 with a screen and some levers on, you know, some some sliders. 153 00:09:13,619 --> 00:09:14,039 Yeah, 154 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:18,780 Adam Curry: no, that's true. And also Linux and, and, yes. And 155 00:09:18,780 --> 00:09:21,200 then there's another problem, which we've run into, as we've 156 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,660 been testing stuff, you know, been working together for 15 157 00:09:23,660 --> 00:09:27,320 years, building all kinds of projects. You get used to as an 158 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,800 old school computer user who comes from that world, you get 159 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,880 used to workarounds, and then you just use that workaround. 160 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,640 And you're so used to using the workaround that, you know, 161 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,900 things are fixed or have been updated or improved, and like, 162 00:09:40,900 --> 00:09:43,960 oh, what? I don't have to do these 15 steps anymore. I can 163 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,800 just hit this one button, and it works because I just get used to 164 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:52,360 it, you know, because that's my from the Sinclair ZX 80. You 165 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,400 know, from those days, there were a lot of workarounds you 166 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,020 had to play with on the Sinclair, 167 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,180 Dave Jones: oh, man, one of my favorite episodes of John. G's 168 00:10:00,180 --> 00:10:06,120 called causality show. Podcast is where he taught he goes over 169 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:12,960 this radiation machine that was, it was x ray it was x ray 170 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,080 machine, some sort of imaging machine that ended up giving 171 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,480 people horrible cancer, nice and the RE and the reason was 172 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,740 because there was a specific, I mean, he gets all into the 173 00:10:24,740 --> 00:10:28,460 assembly language code of this of this machine. And what was 174 00:10:28,460 --> 00:10:31,940 happening is there was these bugs in it where it would give 175 00:10:31,940 --> 00:10:36,800 the operator of the machine a false message under certain 176 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,300 circumstances. And it just became known that you always 177 00:10:40,300 --> 00:10:43,240 just hit Enter to go through that. So just ignore that. 178 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,960 Ignore that screen that it was literally part of the training 179 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:52,240 is ignore these three screens. Oh, man, and and when you in 99% 180 00:10:52,780 --> 00:10:55,300 of the time when you ignore those screens, it worked exactly 181 00:10:55,300 --> 00:10:59,440 the way it was supposed to. But 1% of the time, it would keep 182 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,100 the it would keep the shutter open long enough to give you 183 00:11:02,100 --> 00:11:08,460 horrible cancer. Yeah, yeah, work around became, if you ever 184 00:11:08,460 --> 00:11:12,120 have to tell somebody to do a workaround that becomes part of 185 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,440 the unwritten documentation of that product. And then if you 186 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,980 ever, if something ever doesn't, you know, but, but you lose the 187 00:11:19,980 --> 00:11:22,760 sense of the fact that that was not the way it was supposed to 188 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:23,720 froze into me. 189 00:11:24,020 --> 00:11:26,720 Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly. And we've even he had that with the 190 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,860 freedom controller. If you're there was something I was doing, 191 00:11:30,860 --> 00:11:33,920 like, what? What are you doing? I was like, Well, I do it this 192 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,220 way. You can just hit command. L, oh, really, 193 00:11:38,660 --> 00:11:41,260 Dave Jones: yeah, for, let's be honest, the freedom controller 194 00:11:41,260 --> 00:11:42,340 is mostly that, yeah, 195 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:45,640 Adam Curry: yeah. So one 196 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:47,500 Dave Jones: of these days I'm going to rewrite that thing from 197 00:11:47,500 --> 00:11:50,620 scratch, and it's going to end like with modern things, and 198 00:11:50,620 --> 00:11:53,920 it's going to be amazing, yeah, maybe 199 00:11:53,980 --> 00:11:58,000 Adam Curry: that'll be our retirement. I'm not too bullish. 200 00:11:58,420 --> 00:12:00,840 I'm not too bull. Hey, I use it every single day. It's a part of 201 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,240 my life. So I love the freedom controller. And by the way, 202 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,020 that's, that's some software, man. I mean, I didn't even have 203 00:12:07,020 --> 00:12:09,660 the login anymore. I don't think you have that running on a 204 00:12:09,660 --> 00:12:13,080 server somewhere. And from time to time, you know, you'll go in 205 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,900 and look, and it's been up, you know, uptime 700 days or 206 00:12:15,900 --> 00:12:19,320 something. It's just, it's a it's a beast. I 207 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,980 Dave Jones: have not read. I'm gonna, after the show, I'm gonna 208 00:12:21,980 --> 00:12:25,220 log in and see what the uptime is on on that machine of yours. 209 00:12:25,220 --> 00:12:29,540 I bet you it's years rock years rock 210 00:12:29,540 --> 00:12:32,120 Adam Curry: solid. My brother, that's the Dave Jones experience 211 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,900 right there. It does not go down. So just before I started 212 00:12:36,380 --> 00:12:39,320 getting everything set up, you know, I saw this, and this just 213 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,220 it made me sad, at the same time, made me very happy because 214 00:12:42,220 --> 00:12:45,940 of this project that you and I started for this very reason. 215 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,540 Was it almost Is it four years? Now, I've been doing this for 216 00:12:49,540 --> 00:12:53,560 four years. Is it four years? Started in August of 2020, so 217 00:12:53,620 --> 00:12:55,300 more than four years? Wow. 218 00:12:55,900 --> 00:12:57,940 Dave Jones: There you go. You're in the heart of the pandemic. 219 00:12:57,940 --> 00:12:59,920 Man So Todd Cochran, 220 00:13:00,100 --> 00:13:04,560 Adam Curry: CEO of blueberry, blueberry says it has been the 221 00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:08,100 biggest week in a long time of show and episode takedowns at 222 00:13:08,100 --> 00:13:11,400 everyone's beloved podcast platform. I'm going to think 223 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,960 he's talking about Spotify, maybe. And he says everything we 224 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,620 could review has us asking why we cannot see everything they've 225 00:13:19,620 --> 00:13:22,760 pulled. But one thing is for sure, the political content is 226 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:27,980 the focus. So there they are, de platforming episodes and shows 227 00:13:27,980 --> 00:13:32,960 and again, I'm just, I'm going to presume, not assume, but 228 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,380 presume that is Spotify. But it could be others. 229 00:13:38,180 --> 00:13:40,900 Dave Jones: I think, I think I mean it. I think it's clearly 230 00:13:40,900 --> 00:13:44,800 Spotify that I want to feed of that so bad. I hope he does 231 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:45,280 this. That's 232 00:13:45,340 --> 00:13:48,460 Adam Curry: what you proposed the the BlackBerry list. It's 233 00:13:48,460 --> 00:13:48,820 great 234 00:13:49,900 --> 00:13:53,260 Dave Jones: Blackberry, yeah, I need, I need this list because I 235 00:13:53,260 --> 00:13:56,740 want to see, like, an update in my podcast app, of all the weird 236 00:13:56,740 --> 00:13:59,260 things that they do platform and try to, it's like a game. You 237 00:13:59,260 --> 00:14:00,960 got to try to figure out why they did it. 238 00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:06,540 Adam Curry: It's, it's so asinine and and again, it just 239 00:14:06,540 --> 00:14:09,960 proves that all these modern apps that that aren't, uh, on 240 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:15,240 any Silicon Valley you know, owned index. They are, they are 241 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:20,360 the literal freedom of speech platforms, or apps, or whatever 242 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:25,100 you want to call systems, because your speech is not, is 243 00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:30,500 not shuttered. It's just, it's crazy. And I don't know, I You 244 00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:33,800 never really hear anything about it, except this. In this 245 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,440 particular case, you know, just don't hear. And I want, I guess 246 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,440 blueberry has to tell, tell their podcasters, hey, this got 247 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,060 kicked off of Spotify. I would. I would think they would at 248 00:14:43,060 --> 00:14:43,540 least 249 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,080 Dave Jones: I would, yeah, I mean, you would feel like a you 250 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,320 would feel like that's your duty to tell them, because they've 251 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,400 been just removed from a major platform, you know, and you're 252 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,580 hosting their show. Because if they just come to you and say, 253 00:14:57,580 --> 00:15:00,480 Hey, this was where's my show, it's not showing up. Then you're 254 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,720 like, well, it got taken down, and we knew about it, but we 255 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,720 didn't tell you there's almost like, a more kind of, like a 256 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,960 moral, you know, or an ethical thing, where you feel like you 257 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,840 need to, you know, people. It's funny that I don't hear anybody 258 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:16,380 else. None of the other hosting companies mentioned this. But it 259 00:15:16,380 --> 00:15:18,240 has to be happening everywhere. It 260 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,700 Adam Curry: must be happening to everybody. Yeah. And I remember 261 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,820 when there was a time when there was a couple of people tried 262 00:15:25,820 --> 00:15:30,560 putting no agenda episodes up on YouTube and, you know, just the 263 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,160 audio. And I think one guy at some point was actually doing 264 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,640 chapter images, and, you know, making quite a production of it. 265 00:15:38,060 --> 00:15:41,380 And one by one, these people would finally email me and say, 266 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,460 you know, I got three strikes now on your no agenda episode. 267 00:15:45,460 --> 00:15:49,960 So, so I have to stop, because it's ruining my account. Yeah, 268 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,780 Dave Jones: is that like the innate in Eclipse guy? Remember 269 00:15:52,780 --> 00:15:57,340 that, um, where he would do, like, little short, like, no, he 270 00:15:57,340 --> 00:15:58,840 was, this 271 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:00,960 Adam Curry: is full episodes, which I was fine with. You know, 272 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,060 hey, if you want to maintain that, I don't care you. Go 273 00:16:03,060 --> 00:16:08,160 ahead, you as long as you don't enable monetization and and one 274 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,820 by one, these would get taken down. And for what I mean, we're 275 00:16:11,820 --> 00:16:15,480 just two old dudes, what are we doing? And, you know, Tina got 276 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,100 put in Instagram jail. 277 00:16:18,660 --> 00:16:20,480 Dave Jones: Instagram jail. Didn't even know there was an 278 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:21,620 Instagram jail? Yeah, 279 00:16:21,620 --> 00:16:25,040 Adam Curry: she got put an Instagram comment jail. So she, 280 00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:28,820 she, of course, this is my wife, so she, she, you know, of 281 00:16:28,820 --> 00:16:32,300 course, posted stuff about the the party, and then she says, 282 00:16:32,300 --> 00:16:35,660 Oh, I can't comment even on my own posts. So what do you mean? 283 00:16:35,660 --> 00:16:39,260 Well, they're saying, you have a time out. You can't post 284 00:16:39,260 --> 00:16:42,280 comments for a week. I said, What did you do? Because I don't 285 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,280 know, yeah, what district? They won't tell they'll never tell 286 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,800 you. They'll never tell you. That's the crazy thing. It's 287 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,500 like, what is it? I said, You must have heard somebody's 288 00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:57,400 feelings this. I don't Instagram if somebody reported you, I 289 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,140 guess I don't know what it is. It's crazy. 290 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,340 Dave Jones: Yeah, I would, I would like to, I would like to 291 00:17:05,340 --> 00:17:10,320 hear from it that that shows you, okay, that right there, 292 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:14,280 shows you the difference. It just kind of dawned on me that 293 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,040 shows you the difference between podcasting and every other 294 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,480 thing, yeah, is you're in, you're you got deeply, you know, 295 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,560 you got muted on Instagram, and so you can't post there, and 296 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,500 that's just it. You're done. So you, I mean, you're, you're 297 00:17:27,500 --> 00:17:31,100 toast, yeah, with podcasting, you got removed off Spotify. Did 298 00:17:31,100 --> 00:17:32,300 anybody even notice? 299 00:17:33,380 --> 00:17:35,300 Adam Curry: Yeah, right, that's a good point, 300 00:17:35,839 --> 00:17:38,719 Dave Jones: because you now, you still show up in 47 other 301 00:17:38,719 --> 00:17:42,699 podcasts, exactly, but eventually, and and on your own 302 00:17:42,699 --> 00:17:43,299 website, 303 00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:45,400 Adam Curry: you know, eventually people will figure it out. Like, 304 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,360 you know, maybe I should be promoting, maybe I should be 305 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:53,560 promoting, you know, different apps for people to listen to my 306 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:55,120 show on, you know, 307 00:17:56,079 --> 00:17:56,919 Dave Jones: like, What do you mean? 308 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,020 Adam Curry: Well, if, if you know, you don't want people 309 00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:04,500 getting used to listening to you on Spotify, and then all of a 310 00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:07,260 sudden, one day, you're gone, you know, or anywhere or 311 00:18:07,260 --> 00:18:10,380 anywhere. That's that's controlled by anyone else but 312 00:18:10,380 --> 00:18:13,980 you and your feed. I mean, that's that's the beauty of it. 313 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,460 That's the beauty of what we've done here, which is good. 314 00:18:19,140 --> 00:18:21,900 Dave Jones: And Melissa sent me an episode of a podcast the 315 00:18:21,900 --> 00:18:24,680 other day of the she wanted me to listen to. And I was like, I 316 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,260 was like, Yes, send it to me. And so she texted to me, and it 317 00:18:27,260 --> 00:18:29,960 was a Spotify link. And I was like, oh, 318 00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:32,539 Adam Curry: oh, I get those. What do you do? I don't even 319 00:18:32,539 --> 00:18:35,299 click on those anymore. If someone sends me a link to a 320 00:18:35,299 --> 00:18:38,059 podcast on Spotify, I'm like, I just don't answer. I'm like, I'm 321 00:18:38,059 --> 00:18:40,159 not clicking on that. And 322 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,360 Dave Jones: like this. This hurts me. It hurts my heart. You 323 00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:43,540 know, 324 00:18:43,539 --> 00:18:45,639 Adam Curry: especially from your wife. Man, what's wrong with 325 00:18:45,639 --> 00:18:45,819 her? I 326 00:18:45,820 --> 00:18:48,820 Dave Jones: know I was personally offended. So she's 327 00:18:48,820 --> 00:18:49,120 using 328 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:51,639 Adam Curry: Spotify to listen to podcasts, and she's married to 329 00:18:51,639 --> 00:18:53,679 the pod sage. I 330 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,960 Dave Jones: know I had to go check her CO two monitor to make 331 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:57,160 sure the room wasn't too hot. 332 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,080 Adam Curry: You know, I've Tina's on on on fountain. She's 333 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,020 been on fountain forever. She likes it so she she's good, 334 00:19:04,620 --> 00:19:08,040 yeah, but she was listening, I think probably on Apple previous 335 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,140 to that. And 336 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,540 Dave Jones: I got, I got work to do, man, while we're 337 00:19:12,539 --> 00:19:14,639 Adam Curry: on it, I want to remind everybody, if you're 338 00:19:14,639 --> 00:19:19,559 having an issue with an app, getting it into the App Store, 339 00:19:19,919 --> 00:19:22,339 because I got another one of these emails. There's been two 340 00:19:22,339 --> 00:19:25,939 this month so far, the two in the past two weeks where the App 341 00:19:25,939 --> 00:19:28,399 Store kicked the second, yeah, the App Store kicks it back. 342 00:19:28,939 --> 00:19:33,499 Indie hub, the App Store kicks it back and says, You need 343 00:19:33,499 --> 00:19:36,619 permission to access this content, which I do not 344 00:19:36,619 --> 00:19:41,259 understand. Why this? There's some bug in there, in the QA 345 00:19:41,259 --> 00:19:44,679 process that says, oh, you know, if it's, if it's this kind of an 346 00:19:44,679 --> 00:19:49,179 app, accessing other content. And you know the clearly, the QA 347 00:19:49,179 --> 00:19:54,519 process doesn't include if it's RSS, if equals RSS, then 348 00:19:54,579 --> 00:20:00,779 approve. So I have a, I have a boilerplate E. Mail if you need 349 00:20:00,779 --> 00:20:03,719 it, if you run into those problems, let us know, because I 350 00:20:03,719 --> 00:20:06,779 think we've had 100% success rate when I send that, when I 351 00:20:06,779 --> 00:20:10,499 send that email, and we have a link to our, you know, to all of 352 00:20:10,499 --> 00:20:13,739 our legal documents and all that stuff this, it's a pro it's a 353 00:20:13,739 --> 00:20:16,799 pro email. It always gets approved. So far, 354 00:20:17,819 --> 00:20:20,419 Dave Jones: you'll just sail right through. Yeah, that. I 355 00:20:20,419 --> 00:20:23,359 think they have a little wheel when they do approval that they 356 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,779 just spin it and they say, Okay, what? What are we going to ding 357 00:20:26,779 --> 00:20:30,079 you on? And it's because, because 10 podcast apps can 358 00:20:30,079 --> 00:20:34,579 submit that use the index. You know, four of them will get 359 00:20:34,579 --> 00:20:37,879 dinged in this way, and six of them will just have no issue. I 360 00:20:37,939 --> 00:20:41,259 don't understand it can be all of them, because we've only 361 00:20:41,499 --> 00:20:43,299 needed to do this for maybe three or 362 00:20:43,299 --> 00:20:45,819 Adam Curry: four. Yeah, it's like, All right, everybody, 363 00:20:45,819 --> 00:20:48,399 here's another submission. And oops, that's not the one. Oh, 364 00:20:48,399 --> 00:20:50,679 man, that's not what I wanted to do. Ah, 365 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,460 Dave Jones: no, you screwed it. I did. I do monitor. Here we go, 366 00:20:54,460 --> 00:20:55,780 everybody, let's see. Do we want 367 00:20:57,819 --> 00:21:00,359 Adam Curry: to approve this app or not? Round around, it goes. 368 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:04,079 Let's see. Oh, seems like they're accessing other people's 369 00:21:04,079 --> 00:21:07,679 content. No, I don't think we can do that. Computer says no. 370 00:21:09,179 --> 00:21:14,279 Bombshell, yeah, 371 00:21:14,340 --> 00:21:17,640 Dave Jones: I finally got there. You got there. It was worth it. 372 00:21:19,740 --> 00:21:21,080 Wait. What am I doing? 373 00:21:21,139 --> 00:21:21,859 Adam Curry: So we 374 00:21:22,399 --> 00:21:24,679 Dave Jones: my phone automatically bluetoothed over 375 00:21:24,679 --> 00:21:25,579 to the rodecaster. 376 00:21:25,699 --> 00:21:28,159 Adam Curry: Oh, cool. I had that. Oh, that's interesting. 377 00:21:29,059 --> 00:21:29,779 All sudden, some 378 00:21:29,779 --> 00:21:33,799 Dave Jones: sort of play. And I was like, What is this? Oh, by 379 00:21:33,799 --> 00:21:37,219 the way, I wonder if I can pull this up. Actually, this is kind 380 00:21:37,219 --> 00:21:38,299 of convenient, because 381 00:21:39,139 --> 00:21:41,139 Adam Curry: are you going to play something from your phone. 382 00:21:41,379 --> 00:21:42,759 This, this will go well, let 383 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,700 Dave Jones: me see if, can you see? If you see, if you can, can 384 00:21:45,700 --> 00:21:46,840 you hear this? First of all, 385 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,980 Adam Curry: no, because no, because you could, because 386 00:21:50,980 --> 00:21:54,760 you're not connecting with the with the chat to the chat 387 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,340 interface, I can hear it softly in the background. Can you turn 388 00:21:57,340 --> 00:21:59,080 it up? Maybe it's just there you go. 389 00:21:59,919 --> 00:22:01,379 Dave Jones: Is it? Yeah, yeah. 390 00:22:03,839 --> 00:22:05,639 Adam Curry: That I had the pleasure of introducing these 391 00:22:05,639 --> 00:22:09,179 guys with their debut. This was lifetime. How they're doing it, 392 00:22:09,299 --> 00:22:09,659 either Todd 393 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,720 Dave Jones: Howe car thinks they can. I wasn't prepared for it, 394 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:17,760 but I was listening to sounds like me. It is you I was 395 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:22,940 listening to. I know this is the old bootleg from the bootleg 396 00:22:22,940 --> 00:22:24,380 dance party episode. From 397 00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:26,779 Adam Curry: the days, not here dance party, the three hour 398 00:22:26,779 --> 00:22:28,759 episode, yeah, 399 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,900 Dave Jones: from March of 2023, that just, I was testing the new 400 00:22:32,900 --> 00:22:37,040 overcast and and it just had, it was in my upload. So I'll listen 401 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,100 to that and listen to it for a while. And it sounds like during 402 00:22:40,100 --> 00:22:43,900 the whole episode, it sounds like your your mouth is swollen, 403 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,420 or some really, you're sure you're talking right, yes, and I 404 00:22:49,420 --> 00:22:51,940 never noticed that. I wonder if that was during your dinner. I 405 00:22:52,060 --> 00:22:53,080 was just about to say 406 00:22:53,079 --> 00:22:55,599 Adam Curry: probably was. It probably was during my dental, 407 00:22:55,599 --> 00:22:57,519 uh, my dental escapades. 408 00:22:57,940 --> 00:23:00,480 Dave Jones: Yeah, you're you're something was definitely not 409 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,340 right with with you, with your voice, your 410 00:23:02,339 --> 00:23:07,019 Adam Curry: version. Well, thanks. I feel better now. Sorry 411 00:23:07,019 --> 00:23:09,599 about that, now that I have a bootleg out there that sucks. 412 00:23:12,180 --> 00:23:16,680 Dave Jones: That's a classic. That's the unlimited the bootleg 413 00:23:16,980 --> 00:23:19,500 from, you know, recording that nobody will ever have a copy of. 414 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:20,540 So 415 00:23:20,540 --> 00:23:24,140 Adam Curry: this week, an episode of our favorite hate 416 00:23:24,140 --> 00:23:31,280 listen came out, which it was so now I'm gonna say something that 417 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:36,200 may sound sound unkind, but it's not meant that way. Please. I 418 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,400 listen. So there's a couple of podcasts. I listen to religion, 419 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:46,840 religiously. Pod News Daily. Every single day I listen to it. 420 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:53,320 I don't think I ever skip one. And I realize that it's kind of 421 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:59,320 like and I also, I think every day I will take a look at CNBC. 422 00:23:59,380 --> 00:24:04,020 You know, around 830 my time, which when the market's open, 423 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,960 you know, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, you know, because I 424 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,480 have the YouTube TV, I'll just pop it up and take a look what 425 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:14,580 they're saying. And so on CNBC, it's always the same thing. If 426 00:24:14,580 --> 00:24:17,100 the market's up, market's up, time to buy. If the market's 427 00:24:17,100 --> 00:24:21,260 down, market's down, time to buy, buy the deal. It's always 428 00:24:21,260 --> 00:24:27,440 the same. And I realized that the pod news is kind of a bit 429 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,040 like that. It's always up, it's always good, it's number. It's a 430 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:35,480 lot of numbers. There's a lot of stats and numbers. And revenues 431 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,780 are up, profits are up. Number of podcasts are up. More people 432 00:24:38,780 --> 00:24:46,480 are listening, which which is, to be fair, is is very, it's 433 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:50,440 very positive. Puts me in a good mood about podcasting. But then, 434 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:55,240 but then you get, you know, one of the top podcast by output, 435 00:24:55,240 --> 00:25:04,320 probably production units that being N. PR, and the reality is 436 00:25:04,380 --> 00:25:07,920 different, and I'm glad that you clipped it. I see you have eight 437 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,020 clips, so I don't know exactly, 438 00:25:10,140 --> 00:25:12,300 Dave Jones: exactly what I brought a PowerPoint, yeah, 439 00:25:13,619 --> 00:25:15,539 Adam Curry: but I think we should talk about this, because 440 00:25:15,539 --> 00:25:19,859 this seemed to me, there's a lot of interesting things in here, 441 00:25:20,099 --> 00:25:22,519 because it was only if was it 15 minute episode? 442 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,120 Dave Jones: If that 11 minutes? Yeah, it 443 00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:30,740 Adam Curry: seemed like this was probably a fair representation 444 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,580 of the state of the podcast, industrial complex as it is 445 00:25:34,580 --> 00:25:35,120 today. 446 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:42,640 Dave Jones: There's a lot packed into 11 minutes of this, of this 447 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,480 episode, and it was kind of like, as soon as I heard it, I 448 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,820 was like, whoa. We're gonna have to go back and deconstruct a 449 00:25:48,820 --> 00:25:51,520 little bit of this. It's interesting from a lot of 450 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,120 different perspectives, not just from the, you know, not just of 451 00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:59,680 the industry, but but on sort of the internal workings of a show 452 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:04,800 like that itself too, yeah, and the state of public radio and 453 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,180 all, all of these things. But the first, like, before we kind 454 00:26:09,180 --> 00:26:15,720 of get into it, what I want to I want your opinion of the first 455 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,440 clip. I want your opinion if this, this is a pre roll ad. I 456 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,980 want your opinion if this is AI voice or not, 457 00:26:22,220 --> 00:26:24,560 Unknown: okay, here we go. This episode is brought to you by 458 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,400 Progressive Insurance. What if comparing car insurance rates 459 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,340 was as easy as putting on your favorite podcast with 460 00:26:31,340 --> 00:26:33,800 progressive it is. Well, 461 00:26:33,799 --> 00:26:35,599 Adam Curry: first of all, why am I hearing this 462 00:26:37,099 --> 00:26:38,059 Unknown: hiss? Yes, I'm 463 00:26:38,060 --> 00:26:39,380 Adam Curry: hearing hiss in that clip. 464 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,020 Unknown: This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. 465 00:26:45,340 --> 00:26:48,760 What if comparing car insurance rates was as easy as putting on 466 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,880 your favorite podcast with progressive it is, 467 00:26:52,300 --> 00:26:55,180 Adam Curry: well, that almost sounds like room noise. It 468 00:26:55,180 --> 00:26:56,440 sounds like room noise. 469 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,320 Dave Jones: It wasn't though I pulled it directly out of the mp 470 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,080 three. I just chopped it up with Audacity, 471 00:27:02,099 --> 00:27:04,679 Adam Curry: then I'm going to say that's not AI that was. And 472 00:27:04,679 --> 00:27:08,339 I think I kind of recognized the voice. I don't think that was aI 473 00:27:08,459 --> 00:27:13,739 I would I don't think they can, they can do that. They would 474 00:27:13,739 --> 00:27:16,559 hate themselves so much. That's the only thing they have to do 475 00:27:16,559 --> 00:27:19,259 over there is talk. They're going to replace that with 476 00:27:19,259 --> 00:27:20,899 computers. I don't think so. 477 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,260 Dave Jones: But supposedly, these, these are based on what 478 00:27:24,260 --> 00:27:27,320 they say during the show. These are, like, piped in, 479 00:27:27,619 --> 00:27:28,279 Adam Curry: really, 480 00:27:28,340 --> 00:27:34,100 Dave Jones: this is piped in, you know, copy so they don't, I 481 00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:37,460 don't think they read this in house with one of their peoples. 482 00:27:37,460 --> 00:27:40,040 They just got this from the advertiser, I guess. Let 483 00:27:40,039 --> 00:27:41,319 Adam Curry: me listen to it again. Let 484 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,780 Unknown: me see this episode is brought to you by Progressive 485 00:27:43,780 --> 00:27:47,680 Insurance. Now, that does sound kind of fake. What if comparing 486 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,680 car insurance rates was as easy as putting on your favorite 487 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:51,940 podcast? Yeah, 488 00:27:51,940 --> 00:27:55,600 Adam Curry: you know, if I was producing this, I'd say, you've 489 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,960 got to reread that, because this is listen to how this reads. 490 00:27:58,960 --> 00:27:59,140 This 491 00:27:59,140 --> 00:28:01,440 Unknown: episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, 492 00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:01,680 I'd 493 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,840 Adam Curry: be like, Please, let's do it again. This episode 494 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,060 was brought to you by Progressive Insurance. That's 495 00:28:06,060 --> 00:28:08,460 what I would that's what I would suggest. And then I'll use the 496 00:28:08,460 --> 00:28:09,060 next piece. What 497 00:28:09,060 --> 00:28:11,760 Unknown: if comparing car insurance rates was as easy as 498 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:13,560 putting on your favorite podcast? I'd 499 00:28:13,559 --> 00:28:16,799 Adam Curry: say, Let's do that again. What if? What if 500 00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:20,659 comparing insurance rates was as easy as putting on your favorite 501 00:28:20,659 --> 00:28:24,079 podcast, there's no inflection here with progressive 502 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,620 Dave Jones: there's, it is, yeah. No, it is, yeah. 503 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,140 Adam Curry: It would be sounds. AI to me, yeah, I think you're 504 00:28:30,140 --> 00:28:33,320 right, but, but whatever's going on, there's, there's some kind 505 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,840 of hiss or room noise in there that should not be in there, 506 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,480 Dave Jones: huh? That's, that's interesting. Number one, so, 507 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,880 like, the whole, this whole episode is about them. 508 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:49,240 Supposedly, it's about them switching to How to Host red 509 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,640 ads. That's what this is about. Well, there's 510 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,680 Adam Curry: a there's a lot going on in that episode. Like, 511 00:28:53,680 --> 00:29:01,620 hey, you know, the part that I liked was advertisements, or 512 00:29:01,620 --> 00:29:06,060 what we call sponsorships. Oh, okay, so All right, there you 513 00:29:06,060 --> 00:29:07,920 go. It's advertising, yes, 514 00:29:08,940 --> 00:29:14,160 Dave Jones: and maybe, I mean, just based on that ad that pre 515 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,540 roll, maybe it's not that you weren't doing host red ads. 516 00:29:19,020 --> 00:29:22,160 Maybe that's not. Maybe part of it is that your ads that you're 517 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:23,720 piping in suck. Well, 518 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,060 Adam Curry: I would reject if I was that bad, if I was the 519 00:29:26,060 --> 00:29:28,640 client or if I was the agency, I would have rejected that. I 520 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,820 said, you need to reread that. That's not exciting. It's it's 521 00:29:31,820 --> 00:29:35,120 dull, it's boring. There's no inflection. So whether it's AI 522 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,680 or not, I would have rejected it. 523 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,080 Dave Jones: And the and pre roll number two on that episode was a 524 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,160 house ad for radio lab. So that's not encouraging, right? 525 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:54,400 Yeah? Like that. That would have been a better. They should clip 526 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,180 that out of this show that would have been a better. Yes. 527 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,620 Adam Curry: Him sorry, but, 528 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,440 Dave Jones: like, okay, so, but clip two is, he's talking about, 529 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,900 we're gonna, you know, they're gonna, they're gonna do host red 530 00:30:09,900 --> 00:30:10,740 ads. Now 531 00:30:12,900 --> 00:30:15,900 Unknown: we're gonna have a conversation, you and me about 532 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,140 something that we're doing at the show that's kind of 533 00:30:19,140 --> 00:30:23,420 big. Yeah, it is big. And wow, Dave, I'm 534 00:30:23,420 --> 00:30:25,700 Adam Curry: hearing that same room noise in these clips. 535 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:28,400 Dave Jones: It's not my stuff. 536 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,180 Adam Curry: I'm inclined to believe you at all times well, 537 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:33,980 Unknown: caster duo, 538 00:30:34,340 --> 00:30:38,060 Adam Curry: I don't think so. I'll listen through it. We're 539 00:30:38,060 --> 00:30:38,300 going 540 00:30:38,299 --> 00:30:41,619 Unknown: to have a conversation you and me about something that 541 00:30:41,619 --> 00:30:44,319 we're doing at the show that's kind of big. 542 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:50,320 Yeah, it is big, and that decision is for us hosts to 543 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,920 start reading some of the ads that listeners will hear on the 544 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,700 podcast, not on terrestrial radio. Of course, that's got 545 00:30:57,700 --> 00:31:02,400 different rules now we haven't read the ads on the podcast 546 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:08,100 until now, and there's a really good, if obvious reason why 547 00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:10,020 we're about to, okay, 548 00:31:10,020 --> 00:31:14,220 Adam Curry: hold on a second. This is bugging me, really. It 549 00:31:14,220 --> 00:31:14,940 really is. 550 00:31:15,660 --> 00:31:17,520 Dave Jones: I don't know what that could be. Let me listen to 551 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,500 it on my side and see what it sounds like. Let me 552 00:31:19,500 --> 00:31:22,160 Adam Curry: just let me see if I can pull out that episode in pod 553 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:27,320 verse that's really bugging me. I don't understand it. 554 00:31:27,619 --> 00:31:33,319 Dave Jones: Yeah, I get it on my copy too, of the clip, so it's 555 00:31:33,319 --> 00:31:36,559 not something coming from your side. Let me just let me get a 556 00:31:36,559 --> 00:31:37,099 podcast 557 00:31:37,819 --> 00:31:42,939 Adam Curry: on media. Hold on. Here it is. Latest Episode. Let 558 00:31:42,939 --> 00:31:44,499 me just play it from here. 559 00:31:46,059 --> 00:31:53,739 Dave Jones: Okay. Listeners support it. WNYC studios, I hear 560 00:31:53,739 --> 00:31:54,399 it already. 561 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,140 Unknown: Welcome to the midweek on the media Podcast. I'm Rick 562 00:31:59,140 --> 00:32:01,380 glass, wow. And I'm what are they recording 563 00:32:01,380 --> 00:32:03,060 Adam Curry: that? Where are they recording this? That doesn't 564 00:32:03,060 --> 00:32:05,880 even sound like a like a studio. Hey, Brooke, 565 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:07,800 Unknown: hi Micah for this week's 566 00:32:07,799 --> 00:32:08,759 podcast. Wow, they're 567 00:32:08,759 --> 00:32:10,079 Adam Curry: recording that their desk or 568 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,960 Dave Jones: something. They got together in the lunchroom for a 569 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:13,380 quickie. 570 00:32:15,839 --> 00:32:17,099 Adam Curry: I saw that, please. 571 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,380 Dave Jones: I don't know. I don't know what that I mean, 572 00:32:21,380 --> 00:32:25,880 like, that's not their typical, no, that's not their PP said, 573 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,760 maybe it's over zoom. Maybe they did a zoom call. Oh, 574 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,000 Adam Curry: man, that's really bad. Well, anyway, let's listen 575 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,080 to it again and we'll just try and forget the horrible, you 576 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,080 know what? No wonder no one wants to advertise on that show. 577 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:40,660 It sounds like crap. We're gonna 578 00:32:40,660 --> 00:32:45,280 Dave Jones: have the audio guy. The audio guys, the last round 579 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:46,000 of layoffs. 580 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,900 Adam Curry: All right, you guys, here's a pod Mike, everybody. 581 00:32:49,900 --> 00:32:53,320 You can do it. Good luck. It'll be great. Don't worry, you can 582 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,500 do this. Podcasters all over the world do this. You guys can too. 583 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,500 Unknown: We're gonna have a conversation you and me about 584 00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:03,060 something that we're doing at the show that's kind of big. 585 00:33:03,179 --> 00:33:09,059 Yeah, it is big, and that decision is for us hosts to 586 00:33:09,059 --> 00:33:12,659 start reading some of the ads that listeners will hear on the 587 00:33:12,659 --> 00:33:16,439 podcast, not on terrestrial radio. Of course, that's got 588 00:33:16,439 --> 00:33:21,139 different rules now. We haven't read the ads on the podcast 589 00:33:21,199 --> 00:33:26,839 until now, and there's a really good, if obvious reason why 590 00:33:26,839 --> 00:33:27,919 we're about to 591 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,000 Adam Curry: wow. Okay, that's really surprising. 592 00:33:33,079 --> 00:33:36,259 Dave Jones: So the question is, why? Because a really good 593 00:33:36,259 --> 00:33:36,619 reason, 594 00:33:36,619 --> 00:33:39,679 Adam Curry: because advertisers aren't getting enough return on 595 00:33:39,679 --> 00:33:43,659 investment from dynamic ad insertions is my guess. 596 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,820 Dave Jones: Yeah, the the the first this, the first part of 597 00:33:48,820 --> 00:33:52,840 the answer is sort of a hand wave. He says, you know, he's, 598 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,760 he's like, you know where, you know, blah, blah, blah, D, Dai, 599 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,400 and then this, but the second part is where, where all the 600 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,680 action is, and that's, that's clip three. 601 00:34:04,859 --> 00:34:08,819 Unknown: Recently, some outlets like current and CNN have 602 00:34:08,819 --> 00:34:12,839 reported that this month, in mid September, our producing 603 00:34:12,839 --> 00:34:19,919 station, WNYC, plans to cut at least 8% of our workforce again, 604 00:34:20,099 --> 00:34:25,159 again, yes, and this is after a substantial round of cuts. This 605 00:34:25,159 --> 00:34:26,539 time last year. Last 606 00:34:26,540 --> 00:34:31,520 year, we lost a producer, so did some of our other shows, and we 607 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,580 lost friends around the station too. They're gone now. They're 608 00:34:34,580 --> 00:34:36,320 Adam Curry: gone, vaporized. 609 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,340 Dave Jones: Yeah, the audio gal was the first Yes, it's obvious. 610 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,400 Adam Curry: I think, I think you're spot on with that. They 611 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,420 fired the actual, they say producer, but it's really the 612 00:34:46,420 --> 00:34:49,480 guy who set him up and does the engineering. This is, this is 613 00:34:49,540 --> 00:34:53,500 very disappointing from NPR, somebody. 614 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,740 Dave Jones: So now they just got, now they're just telling 615 00:34:56,740 --> 00:35:00,480 each other what Mike is telling Brooke. Hey, Brooke. Turn up 616 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,640 your Yeti Blue, just turn it a 617 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,660 Adam Curry: little bit hard. That's it. Yeah, you blue, yeah. 618 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,820 Why did she laugh? That's a very good point. Cotton Gin. These 619 00:35:11,820 --> 00:35:15,000 are worth analyzing. I'm gonna pick apart every single breath 620 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,680 and sentence in this recently, 621 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,480 Unknown: some outlets like current and CNN have reported 622 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,900 that this month, in mid September, our producing 623 00:35:23,900 --> 00:35:29,660 station, WNYC, plans to cut at least 8% of our workforce. Well, 624 00:35:29,660 --> 00:35:33,020 Adam Curry: this is okay, so this is interesting. Instead of 625 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,780 saying, you know, here at NPR, we've made decisions, no, 626 00:35:38,780 --> 00:35:42,520 they're saying other news outlets are reporting that we 627 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,140 are going to cut our staff. 628 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,320 Dave Jones: Yeah, I noticed that that's an 629 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:51,280 Adam Curry: interesting way of announcing this news. Let's 630 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:52,180 listen to the next 631 00:35:52,180 --> 00:35:55,300 Dave Jones: Yeah. I don't know how to take that either, because 632 00:35:55,300 --> 00:36:00,840 it was they're as if it's as if they're not, as they're talking 633 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,980 about themselves in the third person, as if they themselves 634 00:36:04,980 --> 00:36:08,100 are not part of this, of their own lives. Or, I think it's 635 00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:08,580 weird, or, how 636 00:36:08,580 --> 00:36:12,180 Adam Curry: about this? Maybe they didn't know about it. They 637 00:36:12,180 --> 00:36:15,480 heard it from CNN and current. Why? I don't know why they 638 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:20,600 mentioned current, and they're pissed that they had to hear it 639 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:21,740 from other sources. 640 00:36:23,180 --> 00:36:25,220 Dave Jones: Oh, and so maybe that's why they got it. Maybe 641 00:36:25,220 --> 00:36:27,320 that's why they did the lunchroom quickies, because they 642 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,540 were, this is sort of a, you know, they're 643 00:36:30,380 --> 00:36:33,560 Adam Curry: going rogue. Yeah, that's why it was only an 11 644 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,400 minute episode. It's rogue. Let's go. Let's show these guys 645 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,980 what this is. Horrible. The I can't believe they're doing 646 00:36:39,980 --> 00:36:43,060 that, and they and it's all over the place. Everyone's talking 647 00:36:43,060 --> 00:36:47,380 about it. Let's do an episode, and let's be critical of them. 648 00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:48,400 And 649 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,760 Unknown: again, again, yes, and this is after again. 650 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,020 Adam Curry: That's not very funny. Brooke, she's laughing 651 00:36:56,740 --> 00:36:59,560 Dave Jones: again, a lot of unexplained, unexplained 652 00:36:59,620 --> 00:37:02,340 chuckling in this that I don't understand. It's horrible 653 00:37:02,340 --> 00:37:04,860 Adam Curry: when, when you're when people get fired and you 654 00:37:04,860 --> 00:37:08,220 have to downsize. It's not a laughing matter, although she 655 00:37:08,220 --> 00:37:11,760 still has a job. Maybe that's why 656 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:16,200 Unknown: she's laughing again, again, yes, and this is after a 657 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,680 substantial round of cuts. This time last year. 658 00:37:19,740 --> 00:37:24,380 Last year, we lost a producer, so did some of our other shows, 659 00:37:24,380 --> 00:37:27,860 and we lost friends around the station too. They're gone now, 660 00:37:29,240 --> 00:37:32,600 Adam Curry: wow, so is it no Are they no longer friends when you 661 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,420 don't work with them? Brooke, they're gone. Now I don't talk 662 00:37:35,420 --> 00:37:38,540 to them anymore. I've removed them from my speed dial, 663 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:44,620 Dave Jones: so the chop and drop is in full effect, yeah, at NYC 664 00:37:44,620 --> 00:37:50,740 and NPR in general. I mean, in this, the the reason for the 665 00:37:50,740 --> 00:37:55,360 chop and drop, he's going to give he's he's going to go into 666 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,740 a a brilliant economic analysis here. I'm 667 00:37:59,740 --> 00:38:01,620 Unknown: not going to pretend to be some 668 00:38:01,620 --> 00:38:03,600 Dave Jones: Sorry. No good. 669 00:38:03,780 --> 00:38:10,920 Adam Curry: No, I was, I was going to add to that, that we 670 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,760 should probably mention that you know that a year ago, I mean, 671 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:21,020 NPR over hired in their podcast division because of the 672 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:25,820 incredible, hyped up market that existed on the, you know, the 673 00:38:25,820 --> 00:38:30,740 tail end of the pandemic. And of course, it was, it was a great 674 00:38:30,740 --> 00:38:34,640 time for podcasting. It was everyone was either listening to 675 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,780 a podcast or making a podcast, and supposedly doing both. And 676 00:38:38,780 --> 00:38:41,740 they just over hired, thinking, This is it. You know, it's, it's 677 00:38:41,740 --> 00:38:44,620 going to keep on rolling. So that I've 678 00:38:44,620 --> 00:38:46,120 Dave Jones: been saying that, I've been saying this for a 679 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:51,100 while, is that the the bizarre thing about NPR and these public 680 00:38:51,100 --> 00:38:55,840 radio shows is that they still show up in the top of all the 681 00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:01,380 charts. Yet they've, they've, like, essentially fired most of 682 00:39:01,380 --> 00:39:05,760 their staff. They're not they're showing up in the top of the 683 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,760 charts, but they're not making any money. Yeah, that's 684 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:09,360 troubling. 685 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,640 Unknown: I'm not going to pretend to be some ad expert, 686 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:16,380 but the economy is funky, and for all kinds of reasons, 687 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:21,380 companies are spending less money on advertising, and that 688 00:39:21,380 --> 00:39:23,900 is really hurt WNYC, 689 00:39:25,460 --> 00:39:27,380 Adam Curry: the economy is funky. 690 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,520 Dave Jones: Yes, this is the economic analysis. One economy 691 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:36,140 is funky, Funky. It's and then, and also all sorts of reasons. 692 00:39:36,140 --> 00:39:38,300 Yeah, those are the those are your two 693 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,220 Adam Curry: You mean, like companies aren't making money. 694 00:39:40,220 --> 00:39:45,460 People are having a hard time making ends meet. Prices are 695 00:39:45,460 --> 00:39:49,660 through the roof. And advertise. There's been a pullback in 696 00:39:49,660 --> 00:39:51,580 advertising, although you wouldn't know it. 697 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,300 Dave Jones: Those are the reasons. These are reasons. 698 00:39:55,300 --> 00:39:57,940 Unknown: I'm not going to pretend to be some ad expert, 699 00:39:57,940 --> 00:40:02,640 but the economy is. Chunky and for all kinds of reasons, 700 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:07,680 companies are spending less money on advertising, and that 701 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:12,360 is really hurt WNYC. I know it's hurt all kinds of media, but 702 00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:16,440 it's really had an outsized effect on the podcast industry. 703 00:40:16,740 --> 00:40:20,900 Like we mentioned, there were layoffs over here last year at 704 00:40:20,900 --> 00:40:23,780 the time, our president LaFontaine Oliver cited a 705 00:40:23,780 --> 00:40:27,800 decline in advertising, what we call sponsorship, we saw that at 706 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,920 other companies, like Pushkin industries, which is Malcolm 707 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,860 Gladwell podcast company, they cut, like a third of their 708 00:40:33,860 --> 00:40:39,080 staff. Laist, which was formerly known as KPCC, got rid of some 709 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:45,400 of their podcast only shows. NPR cut over 100 jobs. So kind of, 710 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,160 everyone's feeling it, but we're, we're all feeling it, I 711 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:49,300 think especially rough, 712 00:40:50,020 --> 00:40:53,500 Dave Jones: hmm, these, all these shows, he mentions, they 713 00:40:53,500 --> 00:40:57,280 all have too many people. They all have, yeah, they all have 714 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:02,400 one thing in common. They're, they are way over staff, staffed 715 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,360 and over, over produced for what they are, yeah, that they have 716 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:10,980 too much overhead, and you it's not sustainable that the change 717 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,580 let me, I'll cut to the I'll jump to the end real quick, just 718 00:41:14,580 --> 00:41:18,360 to say that I think the real change that's going on here 719 00:41:20,220 --> 00:41:24,260 harvested, at least they have a joy department. Yes, they do. 720 00:41:26,900 --> 00:41:28,160 Maybe that's why they're laughing, 721 00:41:29,180 --> 00:41:33,320 Adam Curry: hey. But good news, you're fired. Good news your 722 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:34,040 joys are 723 00:41:36,260 --> 00:41:44,320 Dave Jones: the the the change is not from is not host red. The 724 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,740 real change they're talking about is not host red versus 725 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:50,140 automatic insertion. Yeah, 726 00:41:50,140 --> 00:41:52,420 Adam Curry: it's, it's the real downsizing. 727 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,560 Dave Jones: The real change here is pre roll versus mid roll. 728 00:41:56,620 --> 00:41:59,980 That's what they're going to be changing. That's what's coming 729 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:05,640 they're gonna put, start putting the ads in the show. It like on 730 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:10,860 the media, which is a, you know, on the media always has a pre 731 00:42:10,860 --> 00:42:13,740 roll and a post roll. They don't interrupt the show midway 732 00:42:13,740 --> 00:42:16,860 through, yes, because that goes against what's gonna happen. 733 00:42:16,980 --> 00:42:17,160 That 734 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,560 Adam Curry: goes against our journalistic ethics. 735 00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,540 Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, exactly which they were, which the they 736 00:42:23,540 --> 00:42:26,600 will talk about that aspect in the middle, but in a minute. But 737 00:42:26,660 --> 00:42:31,520 I think that's, that's what they're trying to prep everybody 738 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,480 for, and why they did this special episode is because they 739 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,600 know that it's going to be jarring when they drop an ad in 740 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,580 the middle of the show, whether it's host read or dai or 741 00:42:42,580 --> 00:42:45,820 anything, that's what the real difference, I think that's what 742 00:42:45,820 --> 00:42:48,700 they're not saying out loud, is they're going to start sticking 743 00:42:48,700 --> 00:42:52,420 ads in the middle, in line, essentially, maybe even native 744 00:42:52,420 --> 00:42:58,900 ads. We don't know that would be. Well, I think, and I think I 745 00:42:58,900 --> 00:43:02,940 have an idea about, about one of those? What one of those may be 746 00:43:02,940 --> 00:43:06,960 here in a minute. But the one interesting thing is he talks 747 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:14,700 about ad money in relation to to what their their current 748 00:43:14,700 --> 00:43:20,900 situation is, versus ad money being sort of the gravy on top 749 00:43:20,900 --> 00:43:26,660 of donations, which are the meat? It happened, the queue 750 00:43:26,660 --> 00:43:27,740 dropped the queue. No, 751 00:43:27,740 --> 00:43:32,240 Adam Curry: no, it happened. The the USB crapped 752 00:43:33,260 --> 00:43:34,880 Dave Jones: out. No, let 753 00:43:35,900 --> 00:43:40,060 Adam Curry: me see if I reboot boot. No, I have to it. I can, I 754 00:43:40,060 --> 00:43:45,040 can bring the USB back up. Wow, this sucks, but then I have to 755 00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,520 essentially restart M airlist Again, 756 00:43:49,780 --> 00:43:51,400 Dave Jones: so maybe I can play it for a month. No, I'm 757 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:52,780 Adam Curry: doing I got it. I'm already there. 758 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,400 Dave Jones: I'm already good, yeah, 759 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:55,660 Adam Curry: here we go. I'm 760 00:43:55,780 --> 00:43:57,580 Dave Jones: gonna eat some notes. Here it is, right? 761 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,360 Unknown: But as a public radio show, we're not just relying on 762 00:44:00,420 --> 00:44:04,440 ad money. It's just an area where we have some potential for 763 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,040 growth. We still have the membership model. That's when 764 00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:13,140 listeners, like you guys, support us, and that still is 765 00:44:13,140 --> 00:44:15,060 our most reliable source of funding. 766 00:44:16,620 --> 00:44:21,680 Adam Curry: I don't believe that. I think that's a lie. The 767 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,460 most reliable source of funding from NP. I knew the the CEO 768 00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:30,140 before this one and the and LaFontaine, and that was ya 769 00:44:30,140 --> 00:44:34,580 Ramon, also known as Lee Masters, because he's the guy 770 00:44:34,580 --> 00:44:39,560 that hired me at MTV. And he was, he was Lee Masters, was his 771 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:41,260 DJ name but wmmr, 772 00:44:41,740 --> 00:44:43,720 Dave Jones: it's a great name. It's almost as good as John 773 00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:45,100 Holden, but yeah, no, I 774 00:44:45,100 --> 00:44:47,440 Adam Curry: like Lee Masters. Lee Masters. Hey everybody, it's 775 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:54,160 Lee Masters. Wmmr, hit radio. So he became the he became the CEO, 776 00:44:54,580 --> 00:44:59,020 and I met him at some conference a long time ago. I don't 777 00:44:59,020 --> 00:45:02,340 remember where it was. Was, and it was nice just to catch up 778 00:45:02,340 --> 00:45:04,620 with them, of course, because we hadn't seen each other for many, 779 00:45:04,620 --> 00:45:08,520 many years. And he said, You know, I'm probably going to 780 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,040 retire. He actually had some health issues. I think he even 781 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:15,900 had a heart attack after he left. And he says, but I'm 782 00:45:15,900 --> 00:45:18,840 working on this endowment. And so they've had these endowments, 783 00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,220 which are, like, 100 million dollar endowments. I mean, 784 00:45:22,220 --> 00:45:26,840 really, really big stuff. And that is that's really their, 785 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,880 their main reliable source of funding. Of course, it's fixed. 786 00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:37,460 And how much you can spend per per year is fixed. The actual 787 00:45:37,460 --> 00:45:40,600 and a lot of people think the government funds them, but the 788 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,780 the money that goes to NPR from government, it's like one and a 789 00:45:43,780 --> 00:45:48,100 half or 2% of their their overall budget. But to say that 790 00:45:48,100 --> 00:45:51,520 it's coming from listeners like you as as that's the biggest 791 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:55,480 source. No, that's not true. And I think the ad money, this is 792 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:56,620 incredibly important. 793 00:45:57,220 --> 00:45:59,920 Dave Jones: But this is WNYC, though she's talking about, not 794 00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:05,400 NPR, the mothership. So that may I believe, I believe that direct 795 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,640 support is probably a big part of their stuff. 796 00:46:08,820 --> 00:46:12,000 Adam Curry: Nice. I still think that it's an NPR station, so I 797 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,580 still think that they get a lot of their funding, particularly 798 00:46:14,580 --> 00:46:19,320 from these, from the NPR programming through the well, 799 00:46:19,860 --> 00:46:22,760 that's actually a good point, because NYC is a content 800 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,900 producer as well as a station. So maybe it's just, we're really 801 00:46:26,900 --> 00:46:30,920 just talking out of our buttholes here. But maybe it's, 802 00:46:32,540 --> 00:46:35,600 maybe it's just the production budget that they just don't have 803 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:39,260 the budgets anymore because, I mean fresh air. I mean that's, 804 00:46:39,260 --> 00:46:46,360 that's one that gets GBH, yeah, I think so. So Wow. All right, 805 00:46:46,420 --> 00:46:47,620 let's hear that one more time, 806 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,320 Unknown: right? But as a public radio show, we're not just 807 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,340 relying on ad money. It's just an area where we have some 808 00:46:54,340 --> 00:46:55,660 potential for growth. 809 00:46:58,180 --> 00:46:59,500 Adam Curry: What a lie, Brooke, 810 00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,220 Unknown: we still have the membership model that's when 811 00:47:02,220 --> 00:47:07,740 listeners like you guys support us, and that still is our most 812 00:47:07,740 --> 00:47:09,180 reliable source of funding. 813 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:10,320 Adam Curry: Well, 814 00:47:11,820 --> 00:47:14,460 Dave Jones: I disagree with you. No, I disagree with you. I 815 00:47:14,580 --> 00:47:17,820 believe her. I think she's because if we look at Spotify 816 00:47:17,820 --> 00:47:22,940 earnings, that clearly shows that they're that so much of 817 00:47:22,940 --> 00:47:26,420 their budget comes from their their actual revenue comes from 818 00:47:26,780 --> 00:47:31,160 Premium subscribers. It their the ad money cannot support it 819 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:36,440 alone. Yeah, like they cannot. If I believe I believe her 100% 820 00:47:37,100 --> 00:47:41,740 that she's that she is saying that donation, without the 821 00:47:41,740 --> 00:47:44,620 donations, they would be completely toast. Well, she's 822 00:47:44,620 --> 00:47:47,500 Adam Curry: saying something else. She's saying reliable. So 823 00:47:47,500 --> 00:47:52,060 I would agree that people sign up for monthlies and that it's 824 00:47:52,060 --> 00:47:57,160 reliable, but people also, you know, when they when times get 825 00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:01,680 tough, they stop their sustaining donations. So I think 826 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,680 it's reliable, because it's constant, but it has to be going 827 00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:05,100 down. 828 00:48:06,780 --> 00:48:09,000 Dave Jones: Yeah, that's, yeah, that's possible, yeah, and she's 829 00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,060 and they're trying to boost the advertising so that they can 830 00:48:12,060 --> 00:48:17,880 smooth, smooth it all out across the board. But the, you know, 831 00:48:18,660 --> 00:48:22,280 clip six is an interesting one, because it's obvious this 832 00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:26,780 conversation is it's meant to sound off the cuff, off the 833 00:48:26,780 --> 00:48:31,700 cuff, but it's very scripted. And to me, this is where we kind 834 00:48:31,700 --> 00:48:32,960 of get into the meat of things. 835 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:36,980 Unknown: Our issue is that a show like on the media, a show 836 00:48:36,980 --> 00:48:40,540 about the news that's deeply edited, that features original 837 00:48:40,540 --> 00:48:45,100 reporting that isn't just like a couple people sitting around a 838 00:48:45,100 --> 00:48:48,100 table shooting the breeze like this is an expensive show to 839 00:48:48,100 --> 00:48:51,160 make. I think that's why it's really good, is that, is that we 840 00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:56,200 have really smart people, and we compensate them fairly for, oh, 841 00:48:56,260 --> 00:48:58,960 Adam Curry: hold on a second. We're not just a couple of 842 00:48:59,020 --> 00:49:03,000 morons with microphones sitting around a table. You know, we've 843 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,000 got professionals doing this work. You know, we have editing, 844 00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:10,740 we have in depth reporting. Well, why don't you use some of 845 00:49:10,740 --> 00:49:14,340 that incredible talent to make your your sound good? 846 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:18,240 Unknown: Our issue is that a show like on the media, a show 847 00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:21,740 about the news that's deeply edited, that features original 848 00:49:21,740 --> 00:49:24,980 reporting that isn't just what 849 00:49:24,980 --> 00:49:30,020 Adam Curry: does deeply edited mean? Sorry, I'm sorry for 850 00:49:30,020 --> 00:49:33,140 interrupting this and picking it apart to this degree. But what 851 00:49:33,140 --> 00:49:35,660 does that even mean? It's deeply edited? 852 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,980 Dave Jones: Well, the you know, he's we aren't like the other 853 00:49:39,980 --> 00:49:42,760 personality driven show where it's just two people talking 854 00:49:44,020 --> 00:49:47,620 it's not who we are. I mean, he's saying that, like, that's 855 00:49:47,620 --> 00:49:51,160 exactly who they are. They that, if you listen to on the meat, 856 00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:56,860 that's so funny, because they're supposedly about the media. They 857 00:49:56,860 --> 00:50:00,420 hardly ever talk about the media. They just. You're they 858 00:50:00,420 --> 00:50:04,020 call up the show is they call up somebody from a university, 859 00:50:04,020 --> 00:50:06,900 yeah, and ask them a bunch of questions. And that's the show. 860 00:50:07,980 --> 00:50:10,740 It's literally two people talking most of the time. 861 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,760 Adam Curry: Yeah, you're right. And by the way, no agenda. In 862 00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:19,680 three and a half hours twice a week, we play between 70 and 90 863 00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:25,040 clips, and we do it live, so we there's no deep editing, but 864 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,820 there's real work that goes on there. Anyway, there we go. Our 865 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,760 Dave Jones: they're essentially, they're essentially the same as 866 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,960 these other two people talking shows, except their budget is 10 867 00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:36,920 times higher, right? 868 00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,200 Adam Curry: Exactly, all right, and they like to compensate 869 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,640 people fairly, yes, okay, our 870 00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:46,540 Unknown: issue is that a show like on the media, a show about 871 00:50:46,540 --> 00:50:50,680 the news that's deeply edited, that features original reporting 872 00:50:50,980 --> 00:50:54,880 that isn't just like a couple people sitting around a table 873 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,640 shooting the breeze like this, is an expensive show to make. I 874 00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,540 think that's why it's really good, is that is that we have 875 00:51:00,540 --> 00:51:03,600 really smart people, and we compensate them fairly for for 876 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,180 putting a great program together, whereas there's this 877 00:51:06,180 --> 00:51:09,600 other big style of show, which is just kind of like the the 878 00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,960 personality driven chat shows and those, I think, are having a 879 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:16,800 bit of an easier time securing ad money, perhaps because, whoa, 880 00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,040 Adam Curry: whoa, whoa, whoa, that's interesting. So first of 881 00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,280 all, they have really smart people, not just a couple of 882 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,520 dummies, who sit around your personality driven and just talk 883 00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,580 and and because of that, they're making the money 884 00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,240 Unknown: shows and those I think, are having a bit of an 885 00:51:32,240 --> 00:51:36,260 easier time securing ad money, perhaps because they're not 886 00:51:36,260 --> 00:51:39,680 always talking about the news and because, and then I 887 00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,940 Just say it, Micah, it's because they're more commercial. Yeah, 888 00:51:42,940 --> 00:51:45,880 yeah. I mean, I don't want to speak too generally here. 889 00:51:46,300 --> 00:51:49,660 It's not a bad thing. It's just not what we are, yeah, okay, 890 00:51:49,660 --> 00:51:49,900 fair 891 00:51:49,900 --> 00:51:53,380 Adam Curry: enough. Well, whoa. This is, this is the best clip. 892 00:51:53,980 --> 00:51:58,420 So we're not commercial, and therefore we're surprised that 893 00:51:58,420 --> 00:52:05,400 we're not getting commercials. Hello, hello, hello, you said 894 00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,640 it. We're not commercial, not first of all, every single, 895 00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:13,560 every single podcast talks with two people and a microphone 896 00:52:13,980 --> 00:52:17,400 personalities is talking about the news. It may be sports news, 897 00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:21,500 it may be general news, it may be political news, they may be 898 00:52:21,500 --> 00:52:29,060 show business news. The world is news and and how this is tone 899 00:52:29,060 --> 00:52:29,840 deaf. Yeah, 900 00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,720 Dave Jones: they Yeah. They say. They say, Well, maybe those 901 00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:34,880 other shows are making more money because they just don't. 902 00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:38,480 They just avoid the news. Have you watched these shows? That's 903 00:52:38,540 --> 00:52:41,440 all they talk about. It's like that. 904 00:52:42,580 --> 00:52:45,160 Adam Curry: But she says, she says it. She says, Go ahead, 905 00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:48,640 Michael, say it. We're not commercial. There. We're not 906 00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:52,180 commercial. What does that mean? I listen to your podcast. 907 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,260 Dave Jones: I really do that. Geico. That. Ai voice, Geico 908 00:52:56,260 --> 00:52:58,240 commercial at the very beginning. It sounds pretty 909 00:52:58,240 --> 00:52:59,020 commercial to me. Yeah, 910 00:52:59,260 --> 00:53:02,340 Unknown: bit of an easier time securing ad money, perhaps 911 00:53:02,340 --> 00:53:06,000 because they're not always talking about the news, and 912 00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:07,680 because I just say 913 00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,380 it, Micah, it's because they're more commercial. Yeah, 914 00:53:10,380 --> 00:53:14,160 yeah. I mean, I don't want to speak too generally. Here. Not 915 00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:16,740 a bad thing. It's just not what we are, yeah, 916 00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:17,700 okay, fair enough. 917 00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:22,100 Adam Curry: It's not, we're not commercial. I don't understand 918 00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:23,060 what, what 919 00:53:23,060 --> 00:53:24,020 Dave Jones: is who we are. What 920 00:53:24,020 --> 00:53:26,120 Adam Curry: does that mean? We're not commercial. 921 00:53:27,740 --> 00:53:29,240 Unknown: Commercial. I 922 00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:30,140 mean, in that 923 00:53:30,140 --> 00:53:36,260 Dave Jones: take, they, take advertising. They, they're, are 924 00:53:36,260 --> 00:53:37,700 they a non profit? No 925 00:53:37,820 --> 00:53:43,300 Adam Curry: commercial definition. Uh, occupied with or 926 00:53:43,300 --> 00:53:47,800 engaged in commerce or work intended for for commerce, 927 00:53:49,660 --> 00:53:54,340 suitable, adequate or prepared for commerce. They have commerce 928 00:53:54,340 --> 00:53:59,560 all over the place. It's called, sponsored by but there's all 929 00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:03,660 kinds of companies who want to be associated with their I would 930 00:54:03,660 --> 00:54:07,020 say Commercial Content, and they've been the podcasts of it 931 00:54:07,020 --> 00:54:09,840 advertising from, I think, almost day one. Well, not, no, 932 00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:13,440 that's not true. But once podcast advertising kind of 933 00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:17,460 started rolling, they were doing it. That's that. That is an 934 00:54:17,460 --> 00:54:23,180 elitist stance, which is bull crap. It's very commercial 935 00:54:23,300 --> 00:54:23,900 content. 936 00:54:25,100 --> 00:54:28,160 Dave Jones: Yeah, the real issue is they've isolated themselves. 937 00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,280 They've isolated themselves into, like an into an 938 00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:36,920 ideological corner. There it is. And your content is scripted and 939 00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:41,620 not very and not exciting. It so, I mean, that's, that's the 940 00:54:41,620 --> 00:54:44,440 issue. It doesn't have to do with commercial versus non 941 00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:48,040 commercial, or whether you talk about the news or don't continue 942 00:54:48,100 --> 00:54:50,740 to talk about the news. It's just, it's just sort of a 943 00:54:50,740 --> 00:54:56,020 boring, ideological corner, even people who are hard, partisan 944 00:54:56,740 --> 00:55:00,480 sort of people, they get tired of listening to them. Your own 945 00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:05,520 side. Talk about stuff all the time. This model of sort of that 946 00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:09,600 hate, Inc model the Taibbi, no expression of this, of this 947 00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:13,680 throw where the media has been thrown to extreme, ideological, 948 00:55:13,740 --> 00:55:18,240 ideological sides of the political spectrum, that is so I 949 00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:22,160 think that that is wearing down. I think it's, I think it's past 950 00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:26,480 its prime, and it sucked a whole lot of the media into these, 951 00:55:26,540 --> 00:55:30,560 into these weird, little ideological spaces, and now they 952 00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:33,860 can't get a lot of them can't get advertising, because their 953 00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:38,060 audience became smaller and smaller and smaller. Then that 954 00:55:38,060 --> 00:55:39,800 audience became bored with it, 955 00:55:41,060 --> 00:55:44,080 Adam Curry: maybe, but at the same time, everyone's going 956 00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:48,460 through this, they're not unique. I think if anything, I 957 00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:53,080 just spilled my coke all over everything. If anything, yeah, 958 00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:56,920 don't worry. It'll just be sticky. If anything, they are. 959 00:55:59,140 --> 00:56:03,060 It is ideological. They they just, they hate advertising. 960 00:56:03,060 --> 00:56:07,260 They hate being the whole concept of being commercial. It 961 00:56:07,260 --> 00:56:09,840 just, you know, oh, we're better. It's a better than 962 00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:14,280 thing, and ads are down for everybody. I mean, you may not 963 00:56:14,820 --> 00:56:20,280 hear it from the pod casting industrial complex advertising 964 00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:25,520 outlets, but it is, I mean, it's just a fact. It's down. It is 965 00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,220 just down, and it's down for them too. And now they're 966 00:56:28,220 --> 00:56:32,420 saying, Well, you know, we're hoity toity. We're smart people, 967 00:56:32,420 --> 00:56:35,960 and we like to compensate our people fairly, and so, you know, 968 00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:40,180 they're just commercial, no, it's down for everybody. And 969 00:56:40,180 --> 00:56:42,880 they have listeners. They clearly have listeners. Wasn't 970 00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:46,900 that always, isn't that always? The metric is, like, if you're 971 00:56:46,900 --> 00:56:50,380 the top of the podcast list, then you have listeners. But 972 00:56:50,380 --> 00:56:52,720 there's just not enough ad money. They're blaming anything 973 00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:58,300 but, but that the truth they are on the media. The on the media 974 00:56:58,300 --> 00:57:00,340 is the name of their show. They should just be saying, 975 00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:04,800 truthfully, advertising is down all over podcasting. There's 976 00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:12,720 issues with metrics. We had the iOS 16 pocalypse, you know, the 977 00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:16,200 download pocalypse. We had all kinds of stuff going on, and 978 00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:19,500 they're just being dishonest here. And they're, they're 979 00:57:19,500 --> 00:57:23,480 making it sound like, you know, they're like, they're victims of 980 00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:27,140 their incredible smartness. It's disgusting this. 981 00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,160 Dave Jones: Well, they, you said they have listeners, they have 982 00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:34,820 downloads. Well, that's, we don't that's, we don't know how 983 00:57:34,820 --> 00:57:36,080 many listeners. That's part of 984 00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,180 Adam Curry: the download metrics problem. We have a metrics 985 00:57:38,180 --> 00:57:39,920 problem. Well, 986 00:57:39,980 --> 00:57:42,340 Dave Jones: you know, because these, a lot of these NPR shows, 987 00:57:42,340 --> 00:57:46,120 go way, way back in podcasting. And it could be that, that they 988 00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:50,860 just are sort of still, they still have a wave of auto 989 00:57:50,860 --> 00:57:56,620 downloads that are historical in nature. And if, if there was 990 00:57:56,620 --> 00:58:00,280 sort of a great podcast reset that happened, and everybody 991 00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:03,060 had, everybody's playlist got wiped, and they had to start 992 00:58:03,060 --> 00:58:06,180 over today and resubscribe without a 993 00:58:06,180 --> 00:58:09,420 Adam Curry: good point, you know. And they have shows that 994 00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:13,500 are daily, and have a lot of, you know, really regular to 995 00:58:13,500 --> 00:58:16,800 maybe on the media. Think, is three times a week. And maybe 996 00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:21,800 the ad pocalypse hit them much harder than anybody else. It's 997 00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,200 it's Yeah, yeah. The download pocalypse, the download 998 00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:25,040 pocalypse, download 999 00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:30,680 Dave Jones: pocalypse, yeah. In clip seven, they talk about year 1000 00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:37,220 of Jubilee, yeah, that's right. Nathan the the parasocial 1001 00:58:37,220 --> 00:58:41,020 relationship. Now, this is a term. I have no idea what it 1002 00:58:41,020 --> 00:58:46,180 means, and I have not looked it up, but they they talk about it 1003 00:58:46,180 --> 00:58:46,720 in clips of 1004 00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:50,560 Adam Curry: it, and there we go. I'm having a tough day today. 1005 00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:52,780 Dave Jones: Man. USB, down, 1006 00:58:52,900 --> 00:58:53,980 Adam Curry: yeah, hold on a second. 1007 00:58:58,240 --> 00:58:59,440 Dave Jones: I don't know what. 1008 00:58:59,500 --> 00:59:02,040 Adam Curry: I don't know what to do about this. I mean, this is, 1009 00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:05,940 if this happens on Sundays, no agenda, it's going to be, it's 1010 00:59:05,940 --> 00:59:09,960 going to be an issue. There's, there's some time out that is 1011 00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:14,400 just, it's messing with me, all right. Clip seven, hold on a 1012 00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:20,400 second. Yeah, maybe don't spill coke on it. Hey, thanks. Yeah. 1013 00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:21,920 I'll jiggle the hand. Here we go. 1014 00:59:21,980 --> 00:59:25,340 Unknown: I think what advertisers like about hoster Ed 1015 00:59:25,340 --> 00:59:28,580 ads, what they like less about the kind of sponsorship ad where 1016 00:59:28,580 --> 00:59:31,880 you have the like voice actor whose name we don't know, who 1017 00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:34,820 reads the ad, is that advertisers they want to 1018 00:59:34,820 --> 00:59:38,480 piggyback on the trust that audiences feel with their 1019 00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:40,600 favorite personalities. You know what's often called the 1020 00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:45,520 parasocial relationship, and so the fact that we have not read 1021 00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:48,700 those ads has limited the number of ads we can get. And so we're 1022 00:59:48,700 --> 00:59:52,600 kind of drawing from a smaller and smaller pool of companies 1023 00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:56,260 and organizations that want to pay us to have ads featured on 1024 00:59:56,260 --> 00:59:58,300 our show. What 1025 00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:00,900 Adam Curry: do you think they mean by. Parasocial 1026 01:00:00,900 --> 01:00:01,800 relationship. 1027 01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:05,400 Dave Jones: I'm gonna have to look, I'm gonna have to look up 1028 01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:11,460 the definition of that. See, parasocial. A parasocial means 1029 01:00:11,460 --> 01:00:15,240 relating to a connection between a person and someone they don't 1030 01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:19,980 know personally. Oh, okay, okay. That means, aren't the you never 1031 01:00:19,980 --> 01:00:20,480 heard that, sir, 1032 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,080 Adam Curry: aren't it? Okay? I'm just gonna call bullcrap on 1033 01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:29,840 this, isn't it? Purely because host red ads have a much higher 1034 01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:34,940 CPM than inserted ads. And as you pointed typically, yeah, and 1035 01:00:34,940 --> 01:00:38,960 as you pointed out, they're, they're gonna be in the show 1036 01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:46,960 itself. They're not going to be, you know, just just pre rolls, 1037 01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,900 it's going to be in the middle of the show, so in the middle of 1038 01:00:49,900 --> 01:00:53,260 the content. That's always going to be a higher CPM. So what 1039 01:00:53,260 --> 01:00:58,600 this, what this sounds like is, well, we want the advertiser 1040 01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:02,520 said we want this. And they're like, Well, okay, and you'll get 1041 01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:07,800 $21 CPM, if you do it like this, versus $3 or whatever the going 1042 01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:11,760 rate is for for an inserted ad sounds like that to me, 1043 01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:16,800 Dave Jones: or for the AI, I mean that that AI voice in pre 1044 01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:19,380 roll can't be paying that much. No. 1045 01:01:19,380 --> 01:01:22,580 Adam Curry: I mean the pre rolls. Just don't, if I can, you 1046 01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,000 know, from what I've heard from Todd, I think it's between, you 1047 01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:29,120 know, maybe one and five bucks or something. It's it's not, 1048 01:01:30,620 --> 01:01:33,020 it's not, it's not big. So, 1049 01:01:34,580 --> 01:01:37,580 Dave Jones: you know what? Why do advertisers like host red 1050 01:01:37,580 --> 01:01:41,140 ads, and why are they willing to pay so much more, so much higher 1051 01:01:41,140 --> 01:01:45,940 of a rate for them, it's, you know, on they, they like to, 1052 01:01:45,940 --> 01:01:48,940 they're, they criticized earlier these, quote, other conversation 1053 01:01:48,940 --> 01:01:55,060 shows that are, you know, those shows, let's think about Rogan, 1054 01:01:56,320 --> 01:02:01,200 uh, throw call her daddy in there. Um, Lex Friedman show. I 1055 01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:07,620 mean, all these types of shows, it's not like that. A host read 1056 01:02:07,620 --> 01:02:12,600 on that show is much different from a host red on a highly on 1057 01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:17,880 what he calls a deeply edited, scripted show like on the media, 1058 01:02:17,940 --> 01:02:21,200 yeah, because the pair, that parasocial relationship he's 1059 01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:25,280 talking about exists in those other shows, because there's a 1060 01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:29,780 sense with the audience that they're hearing what the host 1061 01:02:29,780 --> 01:02:33,260 really, truly thinks. And believe me, because they because 1062 01:02:33,260 --> 01:02:33,500 they 1063 01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:36,260 Adam Curry: Yeah, Joe, I was gonna say, believe me, they're 1064 01:02:36,260 --> 01:02:38,480 pissed about this because they're not going to get more 1065 01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:42,280 money, and they have to do the worst thing, which is give up 1066 01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:43,900 their journalistic integrity. 1067 01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:49,060 Dave Jones: Yes, and that that's the thing, is you, you can't 1068 01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:53,680 when you're listening to an edited show that's clearly 1069 01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:59,800 edited and clearly scripted, there is no sense of connection 1070 01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:03,900 there. You're not gonna, you're not gonna be able to get the 1071 01:03:03,900 --> 01:03:11,220 same type of, sort of return on a host red from that type of 1072 01:03:11,220 --> 01:03:14,760 show, because the there's a sort of, like, there's a distance 1073 01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:17,940 there between the audience, and that distance has always been 1074 01:03:18,420 --> 01:03:22,700 part of NPR. And by the way, you listen to NPR, you know you're, 1075 01:03:22,700 --> 01:03:26,360 you don't feel, you don't feel like you would ever be allowed 1076 01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:28,580 in the room with these people. Well, 1077 01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:30,800 Adam Curry: it's the lunchroom where they're recording, so I 1078 01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:33,980 guess I am allowed in there the commissary. 1079 01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:38,720 Dave Jones: This is I feel, I feel like, I feel like the NPR 1080 01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:42,460 hosts typically are going to shrimp cocktail parties in 1081 01:03:42,460 --> 01:03:43,240 Washington, DC. 1082 01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:49,000 Adam Curry: Shrimp deals with the chocolate fountain, 1083 01:03:50,140 --> 01:03:54,400 Dave Jones: yeah, yeah, the fondue or whatever. But they get 1084 01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,940 into the ethics of it, the, you know, the Chinese firewall, 1085 01:03:58,300 --> 01:03:59,620 yeah, here we go. 1086 01:03:59,620 --> 01:04:01,680 Unknown: Which is not to say that this has been some, like, 1087 01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:04,680 super straightforward decision. We are thinking through the 1088 01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:08,220 ethics of this, and we're trying to internally figure out what 1089 01:04:08,220 --> 01:04:11,640 our boundaries are, which I'd like to ask you about. I mean, 1090 01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:15,660 what do you think should be like, the basic rules for how we 1091 01:04:15,660 --> 01:04:17,580 choose ads and how we read them? 1092 01:04:18,300 --> 01:04:23,840 Dave Jones: Okay, stop, stop. Here's another. See, this is 1093 01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:29,540 scripted. He is not winging this and saying, Hey, Brooke, I know 1094 01:04:29,540 --> 01:04:31,820 I'm throwing this to you for the first time, and we've never 1095 01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:34,820 discussed this before. 1096 01:04:37,580 --> 01:04:40,660 Adam Curry: Let's go back to the beginning of our analysis here. 1097 01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:44,440 This is an emergency episode. They decided to do themselves 1098 01:04:44,620 --> 01:04:48,460 because they're not happy with what's going on here, and 1099 01:04:48,460 --> 01:04:51,220 they've and this is what it comes down to. This is really 1100 01:04:51,220 --> 01:04:53,260 what it's about. This piece here. 1101 01:04:53,980 --> 01:04:56,740 Unknown: Well, I think we need to steer away from our coverage 1102 01:04:56,740 --> 01:05:00,720 areas so that we don't raise eyebrows or. Questions about 1103 01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:04,500 conflicts of interest. So that's pretty obvious. So no political 1104 01:05:04,500 --> 01:05:08,880 ads, obviously, or ads from entities we're likely to cover, 1105 01:05:09,300 --> 01:05:13,920 for instance, big media companies or the oil and tobacco 1106 01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:17,040 industries, because we've covered their misinformation 1107 01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:21,800 campaigns, and we may still, obviously, if you start reading 1108 01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:25,880 ads, it could raise eyebrows and questions about conflicts of 1109 01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:28,820 interest. I just want to be clear, the ads, whether or not 1110 01:05:28,820 --> 01:05:31,760 we read them, aren't going to change the stories we take on or 1111 01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:33,500 how we report them. Yeah. 1112 01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:36,260 Look, we've always had a firewall between the editorial 1113 01:05:36,260 --> 01:05:40,040 side of what we do and the business, and this ad thing is 1114 01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:42,040 not going to change that whatsoever. 1115 01:05:43,420 --> 01:05:45,460 Adam Curry: Well, you're going to be pretty limited. Are they 1116 01:05:45,460 --> 01:05:47,020 going to do pharma ads? 1117 01:05:47,980 --> 01:05:50,200 Dave Jones: I just okay, you stole you stole it. You knew 1118 01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:53,920 exactly where I was going, that the within, I guarantee that is 1119 01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:57,400 the one thing they did not mention was Pharma. Yeah, I 1120 01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:02,040 guarantee you. I guarantee you. Just like I predicted that 1121 01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:07,500 Stephen Bartlett would be the keynote speaker, I guarantee 1122 01:06:07,500 --> 01:06:11,220 you, within six months of them starting this, they will be 1123 01:06:11,220 --> 01:06:15,600 running pharma ads or or if not, if they don't run pharma ads, 1124 01:06:16,020 --> 01:06:20,360 they are going to cover some pharma topic negatively, to 1125 01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:23,540 juice pharma into advertising with them, to get them to shut 1126 01:06:23,540 --> 01:06:25,940 up. I guarantee you, which is, 1127 01:06:26,420 --> 01:06:30,140 Adam Curry: yeah, which is pretty much the, okay, that's 1128 01:06:30,140 --> 01:06:33,680 the modus operandi of television. Is what you're not 1129 01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:38,240 advertising. Oh, well, ozempic seems to be killing people, but 1130 01:06:38,900 --> 01:06:42,040 zepbound, oh, that's doing pretty good this. 1131 01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:44,620 Dave Jones: They have not had a pharma ad. Within three months, 1132 01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:48,040 there will be a there will be some ad about ozempic leading to 1133 01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:51,160 more suicides, so, or something like that. So the 1134 01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:54,760 Adam Curry: problem that NPR, or maybe they've recognized it, 1135 01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:59,140 maybe not podcasting in general, you cannot create artificial 1136 01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:03,180 scarcity because you're not on a 24 hour clock. They had it 1137 01:07:03,180 --> 01:07:07,200 really good for, you know, 35 years, however, long NPR has 1138 01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:11,760 been around, and the minute you get to podcast, advertising, 1139 01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:16,080 there's no scarce scarcity. It's like we have unlimited inventory 1140 01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:19,200 for as many people as download or listen to the show. It's 1141 01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:23,060 unlimited. So you can't create the scarcity. So the only 1142 01:07:23,060 --> 01:07:27,260 scarcity there is is within the show itself, which is limited 1143 01:07:27,260 --> 01:07:29,900 to, in this case, you know, 11 minutes. But let's say it's a 1144 01:07:29,900 --> 01:07:34,460 half hour show. You can have only have so many ads inside the 1145 01:07:34,460 --> 01:07:38,540 show that the hosts themselves will read. And when podcast 1146 01:07:38,540 --> 01:07:41,620 advertising first started, I was one of the pioneers of that, 1147 01:07:41,620 --> 01:07:44,620 because I'm not anti advertising. I just thought we 1148 01:07:44,620 --> 01:07:47,740 would be able to make the advertising industry smarter. 1149 01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:55,360 Failed was, you know, codes, code Bongino, you know, it was, 1150 01:07:55,360 --> 01:08:01,140 it was per inquiry, and that's a different model. So you you do 1151 01:08:01,140 --> 01:08:05,940 the ad, and the success of the ad is rated based upon how many 1152 01:08:05,940 --> 01:08:11,700 people use the code or use the link. And by the way, NPR, we 1153 01:08:11,700 --> 01:08:15,840 have solutions for some of this. You can use chapters. You can 1154 01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:19,080 use chapter links. There's all kinds of things that you can do. 1155 01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:23,300 Funding tag. Funding tag for your for your most reliable 1156 01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:26,900 source of income. There's a lot of things we've created that can 1157 01:08:26,900 --> 01:08:30,080 help you solve this if get you pull your head out of your ass. 1158 01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:37,940 And by the way, this is not new in 2017 this is the this is a 1159 01:08:37,940 --> 01:08:42,280 classic clip that we play over and over again when NPR was 1160 01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:45,940 still just NPR, not even really doing, not even focusing on 1161 01:08:45,940 --> 01:08:49,660 podcasting, it was already clear that this is an advertising 1162 01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:53,920 outfit. Okay, moving on to money. How are NPRs, corporate 1163 01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:57,100 underwriting revenues holding up in the recession? And what about 1164 01:08:57,100 --> 01:08:57,700 foundation 1165 01:08:57,700 --> 01:08:58,420 Unknown: grants? 1166 01:08:59,620 --> 01:09:04,920 Two different stories. Underwriting is, underwriting 1167 01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:08,760 is, is down. It's down for everybody. I mean, this is, this 1168 01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:12,000 is that. This is the area that is most down for us, is in, is 1169 01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:15,420 in sponsorship, underwriting advertising. Call it whatever 1170 01:09:15,420 --> 01:09:16,200 you want, yeah, call 1171 01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:18,960 Adam Curry: it whatever you want. Yeah, it, that's what 1172 01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:23,780 happens. 2017 is what I have on this clip. That may not be the 1173 01:09:23,780 --> 01:09:27,800 original team. I think it's 2017 but I think it's, I think it's 1174 01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:31,880 older than that. I'm not sure how long ago we played that, but 1175 01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:36,020 yeah, that's what happens in a recession. It just happens. But, 1176 01:09:36,020 --> 01:09:39,020 and if you have too many people, then people have to go. And if 1177 01:09:39,020 --> 01:09:42,700 you think that you can make the same amount of money on podcasts 1178 01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:46,240 just because there's some bogus release about then, of course, 1179 01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:52,180 they're pissed about Kelsey, the Kelsey brothers. Your body's 1180 01:09:52,180 --> 01:09:55,060 smart list. It's just a bunch of nerds sitting around a table 1181 01:09:55,060 --> 01:09:57,580 with the actors, mere the celebrities that they're getting 1182 01:09:57,580 --> 01:10:00,600 paid. Your content is well worth money. Me to me, 1183 01:10:01,620 --> 01:10:03,900 Dave Jones: oh, it's the Kelsey thing is, it's even worse. It's 1184 01:10:03,900 --> 01:10:07,080 not even nerds, it's jocks. Yeah, that's even worse, jocks 1185 01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:11,100 Adam Curry: and Swifties. So Well, welcome to the Welcome to 1186 01:10:11,100 --> 01:10:15,180 podcasting NPR, where you take a vow of poverty to to make your 1187 01:10:15,180 --> 01:10:19,020 programming. That's what it is. That's what it is. Try value for 1188 01:10:19,020 --> 01:10:24,500 value. Try asking people say, hey, you know what? We put a lot 1189 01:10:24,500 --> 01:10:26,960 of effort into this. Why don't you send this back, whatever it 1190 01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:30,200 was worth to you. Man, would it be great if they just tried it? 1191 01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:33,500 I think they would do great at it. They really, would. They 1192 01:10:33,500 --> 01:10:34,820 really, really, would. 1193 01:10:36,140 --> 01:10:38,900 Dave Jones: I think Nathan, I think Nathan gad in the in the 1194 01:10:38,900 --> 01:10:42,520 boardroom is, I think he's spot on. It's a repeat of the fall of 1195 01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:45,940 newspaper. And he says it's a repeat of the fall of newspapers 1196 01:10:45,940 --> 01:10:48,700 playing out again. The firewall between the newsroom and the 1197 01:10:48,700 --> 01:10:51,160 necessities of the business model isn't sustainable, 1198 01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:54,940 correct? Yeah, I agree. And that firewall is not a firewall. It's 1199 01:10:54,940 --> 01:10:56,260 just an impediment. And 1200 01:10:56,260 --> 01:10:58,420 Adam Curry: all newspaper, almost all newspapers, are 1201 01:10:58,420 --> 01:11:02,280 losing money, except one that I know of is the New York Times, 1202 01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:05,700 because people are buying a game. They're buying a 1203 01:11:05,700 --> 01:11:09,900 subscription to Wordle. And I think they're also in that 1204 01:11:09,900 --> 01:11:13,620 package, getting the sports outfit that they bought, which 1205 01:11:13,620 --> 01:11:16,260 is very specialized content that you can't get anywhere else, 1206 01:11:16,260 --> 01:11:20,480 which is super firewalled. And, you know, sorry, they just not 1207 01:11:20,480 --> 01:11:25,880 buying it for news. So, yeah, take a look at newspapers. NPR. 1208 01:11:27,140 --> 01:11:30,020 You know, people that are doing news aren't making money. News 1209 01:11:30,020 --> 01:11:32,900 is just what it is. Twitter is news. That's what people take 1210 01:11:32,900 --> 01:11:35,420 for news. You want to be in depth, you're going to have to 1211 01:11:35,420 --> 01:11:38,540 ask people to support you, because advertising, they're 1212 01:11:38,540 --> 01:11:42,100 just not the model. There's a humongous 1213 01:11:42,100 --> 01:11:48,160 Dave Jones: building. It's a huge, beautiful, modern building 1214 01:11:48,460 --> 01:11:54,220 in downtown Birmingham, and it was the previous headquarters of 1215 01:11:54,220 --> 01:11:57,640 the Birmingham News. And the Birmingham News built this 1216 01:11:57,640 --> 01:12:01,980 building. I don't exactly, I don't remember what year, but it 1217 01:12:01,980 --> 01:12:09,420 was maybe 2010 and within they built it right before the 1218 01:12:09,420 --> 01:12:09,900 demise. 1219 01:12:10,860 --> 01:12:14,880 Adam Curry: What a great time to do that. Timing people, yeah, 1220 01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:17,760 Dave Jones: they must have spent $50 million on this building, 1221 01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:21,020 and within two years they were, they were completely out of it, 1222 01:12:21,020 --> 01:12:21,680 and now it's owned 1223 01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:23,420 Adam Curry: by an insurance company. Oh, is it empty? Is 1224 01:12:23,420 --> 01:12:24,920 anyone in it, or is it empty? 1225 01:12:24,980 --> 01:12:27,500 Dave Jones: It's been no, it's, it's owned by an insurance 1226 01:12:27,500 --> 01:12:31,160 company. Now, wow, yeah, but that mean it was the this feels 1227 01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:35,660 the same way. It feels like it feels like going, it feels like 1228 01:12:35,660 --> 01:12:37,700 what happened at the end, you know, leading up to the 1229 01:12:37,700 --> 01:12:40,700 pandemic, and then the pandemic just sort of polished everybody 1230 01:12:40,700 --> 01:12:45,040 off, with this sort of mass all we're going all in all the chips 1231 01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:47,920 into podcasting. And then, yeah, rug pull, 1232 01:12:48,220 --> 01:12:51,280 Adam Curry: and it's okay, but let's just admit it and move on. 1233 01:12:51,460 --> 01:12:56,080 And by the way, yes, I like her voice. I'm not a big fan of her, 1234 01:12:56,080 --> 01:13:00,840 just as a person, she seems very mean. I've, you know, I just 1235 01:13:01,020 --> 01:13:05,640 don't like her, but I, I don't mind. I'll listen to you with 1236 01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:08,400 the crappy audio. That's okay, if that's all that you can do. 1237 01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:11,700 Ultimately, it's about the content. And, yeah, you'd want 1238 01:13:11,700 --> 01:13:15,360 it to sound good. But I and I listened to it for different 1239 01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:19,740 reasons that may be intended. IE, it's a hate Listen, but I 1240 01:13:19,740 --> 01:13:23,180 listen to it and I'm a regular listener, and I don't think 1241 01:13:23,180 --> 01:13:26,000 they've ever pitched me properly once to support them. 1242 01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:30,500 Dave Jones: Do you support? Never heard it? No. I've never 1243 01:13:30,500 --> 01:13:33,380 missed an episode of On the media, and I've not missed an 1244 01:13:33,380 --> 01:13:37,280 episode in probably two years, and I don't remember ever being 1245 01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:37,640 asked for 1246 01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:39,740 Adam Curry: money. Also, I want to support that show, and I 1247 01:13:39,740 --> 01:13:44,560 don't want to support NPR in general, so give me those give 1248 01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:46,900 me those options. NPR. Want 1249 01:13:46,900 --> 01:13:49,180 Dave Jones: any of my money going to radio lab or whatever? 1250 01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:54,040 Adam Curry: No, I'm with you there. All right, should we take 1251 01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:57,400 a break and play a song? Just ease in, just a weekend. Okay, 1252 01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:03,420 this comes from the value verse that's out there. And I love 1253 01:14:03,420 --> 01:14:08,160 this track. Nice and easy. DJ, yo, oh yes, baby. How young were 1254 01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:08,460 you? 1255 01:14:10,980 --> 01:14:13,560 Unknown: I remember my mother 1256 01:14:17,580 --> 01:14:18,780 singing this song. You 1257 01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:26,240 Oh, let me try and sing it for you. I 1258 01:14:30,860 --> 01:14:42,640 can't understand, oh, yeah, why your love is so put to me, oh, 1259 01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:56,440 yeah, I can't understand why your love is so true to me. Ah. 1260 01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:15,000 Oh, why your love is so wide. I haven't been the very best I 1261 01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:21,860 could, but you still are so good. You wrote my name. You owe 1262 01:15:21,980 --> 01:15:31,220 my name in the book of life. It is your gift, the gift of Jesus 1263 01:15:31,220 --> 01:15:44,500 Christ, who can comprehend I cannot I know what you done for 1264 01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:44,680 me. 1265 01:15:51,100 --> 01:16:00,780 You came to Earth and showed me how to live. You died on the 1266 01:16:00,780 --> 01:16:03,000 cross and I was set free. 1267 01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:23,000 I can't understand why your love is so good to me. To me. I can't 1268 01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:34,340 understand why your love is so true To me. Oh, 1269 01:17:29,420 --> 01:17:32,540 Adam Curry: that's right. See Brooklyn, one, 112 a Jesus song, 1270 01:17:32,540 --> 01:17:32,780 that's 1271 01:17:32,780 --> 01:17:37,460 Dave Jones: right. I get like a Destiny's Child. 1272 01:17:37,880 --> 01:17:43,840 Adam Curry: Whitney, Houston, Destiny's Child. Yeah, yeah. I 1273 01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:44,980 really like that song. 1274 01:17:45,160 --> 01:17:46,660 Dave Jones: That's a good track. Yeah, I like that. I 1275 01:17:46,660 --> 01:17:49,720 Adam Curry: mean, it sounds like real musicians, you know, sound 1276 01:17:49,720 --> 01:17:53,020 like someone really blowing the horn there at the end. It was 1277 01:17:53,020 --> 01:17:55,780 nice that the value verse has something for everybody. 1278 01:17:57,520 --> 01:18:01,800 Dave Jones: That's your industry. Let's see, that's your 1279 01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:04,980 six cent what? What did you say that podcast listeners are worth 1280 01:18:04,980 --> 01:18:06,000 six cents per hour? 1281 01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:15,960 Adam Curry: Six cents per hour? Yes, I have not, unfortunately, 1282 01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:18,840 because, you know, I have been trying to do a bit of 1283 01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:21,740 vacationing with my wife. I have not listened to pod news, weekly 1284 01:18:21,740 --> 01:18:26,240 review, but I do know that Russell from Australia is is on 1285 01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:29,060 the show this week, and he has started the pod fund. Have you 1286 01:18:29,060 --> 01:18:30,020 been following this? 1287 01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:35,420 Dave Jones: I've vaguely understand what, what it is some 1288 01:18:35,420 --> 01:18:41,560 sort of like, some sort of pot where apps can or podcast app 1289 01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:45,580 developers can apply for some funding. Well, is that the way 1290 01:18:45,580 --> 01:18:46,300 it works? Yeah, I 1291 01:18:46,300 --> 01:18:51,580 Adam Curry: think so. It's okay. It's interesting. So, and I 1292 01:18:51,580 --> 01:18:55,300 really love the sentiment behind it. Of course, it's like, well, 1293 01:18:55,300 --> 01:19:01,260 without podcast apps, hosting companies have less of a future, 1294 01:19:01,260 --> 01:19:05,460 I think is kind of what he's saying. And the idea is that 1295 01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:09,900 they have some kind of key that they so he says he's taking 5% 1296 01:19:10,260 --> 01:19:16,560 of his gross revenue, giving that to podcast apps that based 1297 01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:21,980 upon how many downloads they're seeing from each app. That's the 1298 01:19:21,980 --> 01:19:27,500 key that that that creates the split of that fund. And in order 1299 01:19:27,500 --> 01:19:32,600 to qualify, you can't be a corporate app, or at least not 1300 01:19:32,600 --> 01:19:35,000 a, I don't feel it's just corporate app, but an app that 1301 01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:41,080 also comes from a hosting company and and you have to have 1302 01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:47,500 a minimum of five podcasting 2.0 tags that you support, huh? 1303 01:19:48,220 --> 01:19:50,560 Dave Jones: Well, on the media would qualify for that because 1304 01:19:50,980 --> 01:19:52,900 they're not corporate. 1305 01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:56,620 Adam Curry: No, it doesn't go to on the media. It goes to the app 1306 01:19:56,620 --> 01:19:58,420 developers. Oh, okay, 1307 01:19:58,420 --> 01:20:00,720 Dave Jones: my man, yeah, that's. Think that's, I mean, 1308 01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:03,660 it's pretty neat idea. I mean, you would, and it's, if you have 1309 01:20:03,660 --> 01:20:07,080 a relationship, I think the application type thing is kind 1310 01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:10,080 of cool, because you have a relationship with the person, 1311 01:20:10,080 --> 01:20:15,360 with the the developer, and, you know, that's because it's going 1312 01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:19,200 to be honor system, and you would need to have that sort of 1313 01:20:19,200 --> 01:20:21,440 relationship, though, that there's some trust built in 1314 01:20:21,440 --> 01:20:25,520 there. That's a that's a neat idea. I like it. I mean, I'm a 1315 01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:29,660 fan of all. I'm a fan of all these different ways of trying 1316 01:20:29,660 --> 01:20:34,040 to make these different financial models work. Because 1317 01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:36,980 when I mean, you know, that's a weakness within podcasting, when 1318 01:20:37,460 --> 01:20:42,520 it's a weakness within all open source systems, is, how do you 1319 01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:46,480 get some funding to this to the parts of the system that need it 1320 01:20:46,480 --> 01:20:47,560 the most? And 1321 01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:50,140 Adam Curry: I have to say it's been the hosting companies that 1322 01:20:50,140 --> 01:20:54,340 have supported us with the most value for podcast index. I would 1323 01:20:54,340 --> 01:20:54,700 Yeah, 1324 01:20:55,180 --> 01:20:58,660 Dave Jones: absolutely, yeah, for sure. Yeah, Marco supporters 1325 01:20:58,660 --> 01:21:02,640 for a long time. But I mean, other than Him, the bulk of the 1326 01:21:02,640 --> 01:21:06,960 funding, you know, like that, those, like big chunks that we 1327 01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:11,460 need to pay the the hosting bill every month that that has been 1328 01:21:11,460 --> 01:21:14,340 hosting companies. So, yeah, I mean, it makes sense. And I mean 1329 01:21:14,340 --> 01:21:18,120 hosting is, if you do it right, if you do hosting correctly, you 1330 01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:21,800 can make money. Um, yeah, it's a good margin. It's got a good 1331 01:21:21,800 --> 01:21:24,140 margin business. But you know, as long as you don't, 1332 01:21:24,200 --> 01:21:30,140 Adam Curry: don't have any popular shows or offer video 1333 01:21:30,140 --> 01:21:32,120 downloads, that seems to be a tough one. 1334 01:21:33,020 --> 01:21:34,940 Dave Jones: Now, video, let's talk about video for a second, 1335 01:21:34,940 --> 01:21:35,360 because, oh 1336 01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:38,780 Adam Curry: no, we become the new media show. Can I be robbed? 1337 01:21:38,840 --> 01:21:40,220 Can I be Rob? Please? 1338 01:21:41,480 --> 01:21:44,260 Dave Jones: Yes. You pitch, you pitch yard stream, or whatever 1339 01:21:44,260 --> 01:21:45,160 that thing called yard 1340 01:21:45,160 --> 01:21:45,760 Unknown: stream. 1341 01:21:46,540 --> 01:21:47,380 Dave Jones: What's it called? 1342 01:21:47,440 --> 01:21:49,120 Adam Curry: You stream, yard stream, 1343 01:21:49,300 --> 01:21:56,200 Dave Jones: yard. That's good. The so the video stuff, because 1344 01:21:56,200 --> 01:22:01,680 me and you are working on the side project. And video, you 1345 01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:08,520 know, is a piece of things, is a piece of podcasting. But, and 1346 01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:11,460 Todd was talking about, I think last week, he was saying that, 1347 01:22:11,460 --> 01:22:14,100 you know, he's going to take a risk, and he's going to go all, 1348 01:22:14,100 --> 01:22:19,800 you know, sort of all in on video podcasting. The the issue 1349 01:22:19,800 --> 01:22:29,120 here, though, and this needs to be said is the video, I don't 1350 01:22:29,540 --> 01:22:39,080 think can work well, as is intended in the podcast concept 1351 01:22:40,040 --> 01:22:48,640 without support for alternate enclosure, and because every 1352 01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:55,660 podcast app is going to download the full video when you when you 1353 01:22:55,660 --> 01:22:59,140 first hit play, right, right, yeah, it's just the way it's 1354 01:22:59,140 --> 01:22:59,620 gonna work, 1355 01:22:59,620 --> 01:23:01,920 Adam Curry: yeah, unless You have some signal there. This is 1356 01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:05,220 video. This is alternate. This is how I want you to access it, 1357 01:23:05,220 --> 01:23:06,720 HLS, or whatever it is. 1358 01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:11,160 Dave Jones: HLS, yeah, we need the alternate closure with an 1359 01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:17,880 HLS stream in order for video to really work in podcasting, 1360 01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:24,560 because nobody The other thing, nobody wants to download 15 1361 01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:28,280 gigabytes worth of podcast videos to their phone. So 1362 01:23:28,280 --> 01:23:31,160 everybody's going to keep that on streaming, which is what it 1363 01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:34,100 should be, because that saves the hosting companies the 1364 01:23:34,100 --> 01:23:40,220 bandwidth. So these should all be stream first, type, type, me, 1365 01:23:40,340 --> 01:23:43,840 episodes. But in order to make that happen, you're going to 1366 01:23:43,840 --> 01:23:47,500 have to do HLS, because the is, as soon as you hit play, what 1367 01:23:47,500 --> 01:23:51,520 it's going to do is it's going to download a, you know, a half 1368 01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:55,000 a gig or a gigabyte video file before it ever has, before it 1369 01:23:55,000 --> 01:24:01,140 ever begins to play about and so I just think that, like, as part 1370 01:24:01,140 --> 01:24:04,200 of this whole thing, I'm a I'm a huge, hey, let's do it, man. 1371 01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:10,560 Let's do let's go all in on video over RSS, but we've got to 1372 01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:13,560 make sure that we're doing it over HLS, because otherwise it's 1373 01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:16,980 going to hurt and it's not going to be a good it's not going to 1374 01:24:16,980 --> 01:24:19,920 be a good experience for the listener either, because they're 1375 01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:23,180 going to it's gonna be that overcast thing where he switched 1376 01:24:23,180 --> 01:24:25,520 download, where you hit play and you have to wait, 1377 01:24:26,600 --> 01:24:29,480 Adam Curry: yeah, I, you know, I just find the whole thing 1378 01:24:30,020 --> 01:24:35,300 wasteful. If people want to, want to do video, do video on 1379 01:24:35,300 --> 01:24:39,020 YouTube or rumble or those are platforms, they're understood. 1380 01:24:40,580 --> 01:24:44,260 Yes, technically, we can do it. We can also do PDFs in podcasts. 1381 01:24:44,260 --> 01:24:49,120 You can do all kinds of things. I don't think the the apps are 1382 01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:52,540 conducive, which will bring me to another point in a minute. 1383 01:24:52,900 --> 01:25:00,180 It's, you know, I don't think video is killing audio. So I 1384 01:25:00,180 --> 01:25:04,020 think there's a, there's a, you know, it's clear the demand for 1385 01:25:04,020 --> 01:25:07,980 audio is huge. A lot of people will say that they Oh, yes, I 1386 01:25:07,980 --> 01:25:11,400 watch Rogan but they really just have the YouTube app, and they 1387 01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:15,060 may glance at it from time to time. But a lot of its audio 1388 01:25:15,060 --> 01:25:18,780 that just closing the blocking the screen and listening to it. 1389 01:25:20,040 --> 01:25:24,140 I just don't, I don't think it has a future in the podcasting. 1390 01:25:24,140 --> 01:25:27,080 I'm off. I'm not against it. Obviously, put whatever you want 1391 01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:33,080 in there, but I just don't see why it matters. So look NPR 1392 01:25:33,620 --> 01:25:36,440 there. If they did video, they'd really be out of business. 1393 01:25:37,940 --> 01:25:38,780 Dave Jones: Oh yeah, for sure. 1394 01:25:38,840 --> 01:25:41,680 Adam Curry: You know it's, it's expensive, it's a pain in the 1395 01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:46,900 butt. There's okay if you want to call a YouTube show, a 1396 01:25:46,900 --> 01:25:50,500 podcast, do whatever you want. I think there's something 1397 01:25:50,500 --> 01:25:53,020 different that we need to consider now you're done with 1398 01:25:53,020 --> 01:25:55,720 video. Because, I mean, we can talk about this for until the 1399 01:25:55,720 --> 01:25:56,740 cows come home. 1400 01:25:57,640 --> 01:25:59,920 Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, I'm done. I just, that's just, 1401 01:25:59,920 --> 01:26:03,240 that's just the point is the video. I don't think video can 1402 01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:05,700 work without a streaming, without a streaming solution, 1403 01:26:05,700 --> 01:26:08,400 which is art, which has already been built. It's there. It's 1404 01:26:08,400 --> 01:26:13,740 already works. Peer tube, peer tube combined with POD verse, 1405 01:26:14,100 --> 01:26:16,500 Go, look. Go check it out. It works perfect. 1406 01:26:17,160 --> 01:26:19,680 Adam Curry: Oh yeah. I mean, podcast guru does all. I'm 1407 01:26:19,680 --> 01:26:22,340 surprised at all these things that pop up with video that 1408 01:26:22,340 --> 01:26:29,600 people just jam and video like David Icke, yeah, he just does 1409 01:26:29,600 --> 01:26:32,180 video pod. I don't even know how it works, but it just shows up 1410 01:26:32,180 --> 01:26:35,480 and it works, and I wind up listening to it. I, you know, I 1411 01:26:35,480 --> 01:26:38,720 usually just close the screen and I'm I don't care too much to 1412 01:26:38,720 --> 01:26:41,500 watch. If I want to watch something, I'll watch something, 1413 01:26:42,700 --> 01:26:45,220 but I think that's, you know, we've discussed this, Dave, 1414 01:26:45,220 --> 01:26:48,820 that's just people chasing metrics, that it's more about 1415 01:26:48,820 --> 01:26:51,760 the metrics that YouTube can provide than it is about the 1416 01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:56,020 video, right? I mean, I think that's really, really what's 1417 01:26:56,020 --> 01:26:56,800 going on there. 1418 01:26:58,120 --> 01:27:00,180 Dave Jones: I was talking to a person the other day, and they 1419 01:27:00,180 --> 01:27:06,480 said his wife was a marketing person who's just joined a new 1420 01:27:06,480 --> 01:27:12,240 company. And he said that she was telling him that her boss 1421 01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:15,060 was, like, had done this video, put it up on YouTube, and was 1422 01:27:15,060 --> 01:27:17,520 just saying, like, you know, I've got, like, I've got over 1423 01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:22,220 1000 views on this video. It's great. And so she went in and 1424 01:27:22,220 --> 01:27:26,780 started checking the stats, and, like, almost every one of the 1425 01:27:26,780 --> 01:27:30,440 views was some sort of bot. And it was, like, one or two seconds 1426 01:27:30,440 --> 01:27:32,480 of playtime. That's yeah, oh 1427 01:27:32,480 --> 01:27:36,080 Adam Curry: yeah, oh, there's that, yeah, there's that, yeah. 1428 01:27:36,260 --> 01:27:41,740 I was, I can't find the article. I think Spurlock posted it, and 1429 01:27:41,740 --> 01:27:44,620 it was, it might have been one of those Hollywood Reporter 1430 01:27:47,560 --> 01:27:51,580 articles about the top podcasters, the top celebrities. 1431 01:27:52,120 --> 01:27:56,920 And in this case, the article was about what it was like. It 1432 01:27:56,920 --> 01:28:03,060 was about the apps. Was that pod news, you know, the biggest 1433 01:28:03,060 --> 01:28:08,100 complaints in podcasting and and the top complaint was the apps. 1434 01:28:08,100 --> 01:28:09,000 Did you see that? 1435 01:28:10,200 --> 01:28:13,320 Dave Jones: No, I don't. I must have missed this article. Maybe 1436 01:28:13,320 --> 01:28:15,300 Adam Curry: someone in the boardroom can find it for me, 1437 01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:20,480 but I think, but there were a number of comments, and I have 1438 01:28:20,480 --> 01:28:24,080 to say it was Kara Swisher at the top, another one of my 1439 01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:24,680 favorites. 1440 01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:27,440 Dave Jones: So this wasn't just average listeners. This was 1441 01:28:27,440 --> 01:28:28,880 people in podcasting. People 1442 01:28:28,880 --> 01:28:31,580 Adam Curry: in podcasting, yeah, and, and what they were kind of 1443 01:28:31,580 --> 01:28:35,960 saying was, the apps are confusing. There's no way to 1444 01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:40,780 find what's trending. There's, you know, there's no 1445 01:28:40,780 --> 01:28:45,100 recommendations, a whole bunch of things that, you know, we 1446 01:28:45,100 --> 01:28:50,080 have semi solutions for, and I just want, and it was, it was, 1447 01:28:50,200 --> 01:28:53,800 it was enlightening, because they see a podcast app as a 1448 01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:57,640 platform. So, you know, YouTube is a platform, and YouTube will 1449 01:28:57,640 --> 01:29:03,780 recommend. But there's, there's, you know, ways, just here's what 1450 01:29:03,780 --> 01:29:08,520 I think has happened from day one, because of the very nature 1451 01:29:08,520 --> 01:29:16,320 of podcasting, it's been a very democratic display. So here, you 1452 01:29:16,320 --> 01:29:19,200 know, it's like an inbox. You know that there's no there's 1453 01:29:19,200 --> 01:29:24,320 barely any priority or preference. And you know, even 1454 01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:27,500 though an app will have different features and have, you 1455 01:29:27,500 --> 01:29:31,580 know different certainly for playback and for some 1456 01:29:31,580 --> 01:29:36,380 organization, there's, there's no personality in the app that 1457 01:29:36,380 --> 01:29:41,740 is telling you what to listen to. There is no, I don't know of 1458 01:29:41,740 --> 01:29:46,360 a single app that where you open up that app, it says, Hey, Adam, 1459 01:29:46,480 --> 01:29:49,720 here's what I think you should listen to today, or because you 1460 01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:54,280 listen to this, or here's what's new. Apple has a little bit of 1461 01:29:54,280 --> 01:29:57,280 that in their charts, but it's not really even in the app. It's 1462 01:29:57,280 --> 01:30:02,880 more, you know, it's more on the. On the podcast page. And I 1463 01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:09,060 would, I would like the app developers just to consider, um, 1464 01:30:09,060 --> 01:30:13,500 trying out some stuff that is non democratic. Promote things, 1465 01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:17,880 promote things that you because I think most app developers can 1466 01:30:17,880 --> 01:30:21,920 probably see some of what their of what their users are doing. 1467 01:30:22,040 --> 01:30:24,620 If not, you probably should. I mean, I think you have every 1468 01:30:24,620 --> 01:30:28,220 right to to see what they're doing, not to sell it to 1469 01:30:28,220 --> 01:30:33,620 advertisers, but to try and and, you know, maybe if someone's 1470 01:30:34,520 --> 01:30:38,780 listening to a show that has a pod role, throw up those things 1471 01:30:38,780 --> 01:30:42,760 the next time they open the app. Try not to be so democratic. 1472 01:30:42,940 --> 01:30:44,920 Does this make any sense? What I'm saying here, 1473 01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:51,520 Dave Jones: you mean, I think maybe what you're saying is that 1474 01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:57,220 we, most of the independent, most of most of indie app 1475 01:30:57,220 --> 01:31:03,300 developers in the podcast world, are fans of open source and free 1476 01:31:03,300 --> 01:31:07,020 and open software, and you're saying that sometimes that goes 1477 01:31:07,080 --> 01:31:11,700 so far that it limits their their ability, that limits their 1478 01:31:11,700 --> 01:31:16,680 desire to do things that would maybe conflict with that. Here 1479 01:31:16,680 --> 01:31:22,100 Adam Curry: it is. A Hollywood reporter. I found it okay. None 1480 01:31:22,100 --> 01:31:26,720 of the apps are great. Colon top podcasters reveal biggest 1481 01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:31,640 challenges. So these are the top podcasters say of it, what you 1482 01:31:31,640 --> 01:31:35,480 will, with more people tuning in than ever. Theo Vaughn, Bill 1483 01:31:35,480 --> 01:31:38,780 Simmons, Rachel Maddow, there you go and more. Explain what's 1484 01:31:38,780 --> 01:31:42,580 still holding the medium back. Rachel Maddow, it was actually 1485 01:31:42,580 --> 01:31:45,220 mad Oh, not Swisher, interchangeable. As far as I'm 1486 01:31:45,220 --> 01:31:48,880 concerned. None of the apps are great. We don't just need 1487 01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:52,840 curation and charts. We need national rational organization 1488 01:31:53,140 --> 01:31:58,780 and America merit and a word Adam can't pronounce merit, 1489 01:31:58,900 --> 01:32:01,980 meritocratic. How to help me? Dave, 1490 01:32:02,520 --> 01:32:03,840 Dave Jones: like a meritocracy, yes, 1491 01:32:03,960 --> 01:32:06,120 Adam Curry: but how do you say meritocratic? Is it 1492 01:32:06,120 --> 01:32:08,700 meritocratic? You said it meritocrat? Yeah. Meredith, we 1493 01:32:08,700 --> 01:32:12,060 need a meritocratic way for the best and most relevant shows and 1494 01:32:12,060 --> 01:32:15,660 episodes to circulate efficiently. It's hard for me to 1495 01:32:15,660 --> 01:32:18,720 understand why we're still saddled with such uniformly 1496 01:32:18,720 --> 01:32:23,420 clunky, unintuitive user interfaces at this point. This 1497 01:32:23,420 --> 01:32:28,340 is a very good point. And even though it's coming from Rachel 1498 01:32:28,340 --> 01:32:33,440 Maddow, I think that point is well made. We've always gotten 1499 01:32:33,440 --> 01:32:38,180 into a democratic way of displaying podcasts and kind of 1500 01:32:38,180 --> 01:32:44,500 a search and find where you know it's, I think it's okay to put 1501 01:32:44,500 --> 01:32:48,940 personality into your app and say, I mean, by the way, why 1502 01:32:48,940 --> 01:32:54,040 wouldn't you do an app that highlights left leaning 1503 01:32:54,040 --> 01:32:57,220 political podcasts or conversely, right leaning 1504 01:32:57,220 --> 01:33:01,560 political podcasts, or show business or sports, and call it 1505 01:33:01,560 --> 01:33:07,980 that is that really bad? I think it adds a tremendous amount of 1506 01:33:07,980 --> 01:33:11,820 value, because you can't please all the people all of the time, 1507 01:33:11,820 --> 01:33:16,680 and just the pure nature, like you said, where we come from in 1508 01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:20,100 the open source Kumbaya, everyone's equal. I think it's 1509 01:33:20,100 --> 01:33:24,620 been hurting the experience that app developers can can create 1510 01:33:24,740 --> 01:33:25,880 for their users. 1511 01:33:29,480 --> 01:33:33,440 Dave Jones: Yeah. I mean, you can start with, I think, I think 1512 01:33:33,440 --> 01:33:37,100 the problem might be, well, first of all, it's easy to 1513 01:33:39,260 --> 01:33:44,680 criticism is easy. Solutions are hard, of course, and you know, 1514 01:33:44,680 --> 01:33:50,320 and so I understand it's a valid criticism that she says that, 1515 01:33:50,380 --> 01:33:52,600 you know, these, these interfaces are clunky, and that 1516 01:33:52,600 --> 01:33:56,440 kind of thing that you're right that is valid at the same time 1517 01:33:57,580 --> 01:34:05,280 trying to fit relevant information of that type onto a 1518 01:34:05,280 --> 01:34:11,760 small device and present it in a way that makes sense, that 1519 01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:17,460 doesn't look jumbled and weird and disconnected. That is a hard 1520 01:34:17,460 --> 01:34:21,620 problem, and I think that that is part of that's part of the 1521 01:34:21,620 --> 01:34:26,660 issue there on the developer side. The other, the other part 1522 01:34:26,660 --> 01:34:32,720 is the everybody getting the same shape, like you said, is, 1523 01:34:32,840 --> 01:34:35,180 you know, there's, there shouldn't be some sort of, like 1524 01:34:35,180 --> 01:34:38,660 hierarchy you don't want to highlight, but I think, you 1525 01:34:38,720 --> 01:34:42,820 know, starting with something like pod role and your own 1526 01:34:42,820 --> 01:34:47,740 internal metrics. I mean we do that. I mean, we do a form of 1527 01:34:47,740 --> 01:34:51,820 that on the index. I wish it was even more. I wish it was even, 1528 01:34:51,820 --> 01:34:57,400 even like more intense of taking sort of a survey of all of the 1529 01:34:57,460 --> 01:35:01,920 the episodes being requested in. Assigning scores to the podcast 1530 01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:05,820 based on based on episode request volume, and that's how, 1531 01:35:05,820 --> 01:35:10,260 that's how our own internal search ranking system works. So, 1532 01:35:10,380 --> 01:35:13,260 you know, we take a list of known podcast apps that we 1533 01:35:13,260 --> 01:35:18,300 trust, and then we see how many times they've asked for data 1534 01:35:18,480 --> 01:35:21,680 about a particular podcast, and the more times they ask, the 1535 01:35:21,680 --> 01:35:24,140 higher the rank. Some 1536 01:35:24,140 --> 01:35:29,960 Adam Curry: some other examples, some other examples. Fountain is 1537 01:35:29,960 --> 01:35:35,780 hands down. The value for value when it comes to streaming, SATs 1538 01:35:36,200 --> 01:35:41,620 and lightning payments is hands down. The app that everybody who 1539 01:35:41,620 --> 01:35:47,080 understands what that is uses, they have differentiated 1540 01:35:47,080 --> 01:35:51,100 themselves even further by integrating nostr. So they're 1541 01:35:51,100 --> 01:35:55,720 going after a very particular audience that they believe will 1542 01:35:55,720 --> 01:36:00,040 grow. Of course, it's also alienated people. A lot of 1543 01:36:00,040 --> 01:36:03,960 people like, I'm not interested in that. So which is good and 1544 01:36:03,960 --> 01:36:08,040 bad? Bad, they may lose some people who are just not 1545 01:36:08,040 --> 01:36:11,520 interested in seeing a nostr timeline. They may gain a 1546 01:36:11,520 --> 01:36:15,600 multiple of that by people who are interested and the concept 1547 01:36:15,600 --> 01:36:18,780 of boosting and zapping and all of this stuff. So that's a big 1548 01:36:18,780 --> 01:36:25,760 differentiator. Other examples, are okay. So ellenbeats.com 1549 01:36:27,320 --> 01:36:32,060 Ellen beats is very, very specific. It's for music. Wave 1550 01:36:32,060 --> 01:36:36,440 Lake app, it's for music. I think there are many you could 1551 01:36:36,440 --> 01:36:41,140 do. A value for value donation app, where you, first of all, 1552 01:36:41,140 --> 01:36:45,520 you find all of the shows that have a funding tag, and maybe 1553 01:36:45,520 --> 01:36:50,080 you go into all the NPR shows and find their link, to their to 1554 01:36:50,080 --> 01:36:54,700 their funding page and add that in. I mean, I'm just saying 1555 01:36:54,700 --> 01:36:57,340 there's, there's so many different things that apps could 1556 01:36:57,340 --> 01:37:01,980 do individually that may attract not necessarily the wide 1557 01:37:01,980 --> 01:37:05,940 audience, but a smaller audience. Remember, my whole 1558 01:37:05,940 --> 01:37:09,240 thing this year is, the future of media is small, that you can 1559 01:37:09,240 --> 01:37:12,420 find a smaller audience that would appreciate that and would 1560 01:37:12,420 --> 01:37:15,180 gladly pay you to continue to do that. 1561 01:37:19,320 --> 01:37:24,020 Dave Jones: Yeah? Yeah. I think, well, the smaller you get, the 1562 01:37:24,020 --> 01:37:29,480 more rationale there is for being supported by that niche 1563 01:37:29,480 --> 01:37:32,060 you serve. Right? Yes, 1564 01:37:32,780 --> 01:37:36,200 Adam Curry: yeah, you should. Thank you. That's exactly right. 1565 01:37:36,560 --> 01:37:41,260 It is the paradox. And so I think both pod verse and 1566 01:37:42,280 --> 01:37:45,820 fountain started the development teams initially wanted to make 1567 01:37:45,820 --> 01:37:50,440 clipping and sharing of podcasts easier, and I think both of them 1568 01:37:50,440 --> 01:37:55,540 moved away from that, although pod verse has and I just 1569 01:37:55,540 --> 01:37:59,980 evaluate, but what people send me, so if someone shares a clip 1570 01:37:59,980 --> 01:38:05,100 with me from a podcast. It's almost always pod verse. It used 1571 01:38:05,100 --> 01:38:08,520 to be overcast. That has changed now. Now it's pod verse for 1572 01:38:08,640 --> 01:38:11,760 whatever pod verse is doing. People like that sharing 1573 01:38:11,760 --> 01:38:16,500 mechanism. I'm just and I'm not telling anyone what to do. I'm 1574 01:38:16,500 --> 01:38:20,040 just saying I think there's opportunities, and we're hearing 1575 01:38:20,040 --> 01:38:24,620 it from so we're hearing it for some of the the biggest names in 1576 01:38:24,620 --> 01:38:28,820 podcasting are saying, help us organize this differently. 1577 01:38:29,240 --> 01:38:32,660 Rachel Maddow has her own ideas of what that means. I think what 1578 01:38:32,660 --> 01:38:34,940 she really means is make sure I'm on the home page every 1579 01:38:34,940 --> 01:38:40,360 single time. You know, I think there's just so much 1580 01:38:40,360 --> 01:38:43,060 opportunity. I'm not a developer, so it's very, very 1581 01:38:43,060 --> 01:38:47,140 easy for me to talk about this in this way, but I'm just here 1582 01:38:47,140 --> 01:38:51,340 to help identify that there are the differentiator between 1583 01:38:51,340 --> 01:38:55,960 podcast apps. I think it's time, you know, yes, people are always 1584 01:38:55,960 --> 01:38:59,500 going to use certain apps for certain playback functions, 1585 01:38:59,560 --> 01:39:02,700 certain you know, the the way the silent, I hear this all the 1586 01:39:02,700 --> 01:39:06,360 time, the way the silent skipping works, the way the 1587 01:39:06,840 --> 01:39:12,300 multiple the high speed generation sounds. That's a big 1588 01:39:12,300 --> 01:39:15,540 that's a big category, but I just think there's so many other 1589 01:39:15,540 --> 01:39:18,780 things that are possible that you can draw in a smaller 1590 01:39:18,780 --> 01:39:23,120 audience that will be much more likely to support your app when 1591 01:39:23,120 --> 01:39:26,720 you ask them to, because of the work that you've done into 1592 01:39:26,780 --> 01:39:29,960 highlighting that particular feature, instead of everyone 1593 01:39:29,960 --> 01:39:31,940 trying to be all things to everybody. 1594 01:39:34,220 --> 01:39:36,380 Dave Jones: But I think you're gonna see it with true fans too, 1595 01:39:36,380 --> 01:39:42,040 where because Sam is going all in on activity pub, similar to 1596 01:39:42,040 --> 01:39:44,800 the way that Fountain has done with noster. And I think what's 1597 01:39:44,800 --> 01:39:48,820 going to happen is you're going to see you're going to see true 1598 01:39:48,820 --> 01:39:56,080 fans links and true fans based postings. You're going to see 1599 01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:59,260 them start to pop up all over the fetaverse. And when that 1600 01:39:59,260 --> 01:40:02,940 happens. Yeah, it's the app itself is going to gain more 1601 01:40:03,060 --> 01:40:07,380 action. Yes, I completely agree, touching a a specific audience. 1602 01:40:07,380 --> 01:40:07,500 I 1603 01:40:07,500 --> 01:40:09,120 Adam Curry: completely agree, you know, which? 1604 01:40:11,040 --> 01:40:13,680 Dave Jones: No, I think not. I think you're right. I mean, I 1605 01:40:13,740 --> 01:40:16,380 never really thought about it that way, but it makes sense. 1606 01:40:16,380 --> 01:40:16,680 Yeah, 1607 01:40:16,740 --> 01:40:19,020 Adam Curry: well, it was that article, you know. Let me see 1608 01:40:19,080 --> 01:40:21,120 what else there was, because there were some other things 1609 01:40:21,120 --> 01:40:24,620 that were said, like, okay, you know, the biggest challenge is 1610 01:40:24,620 --> 01:40:27,800 marketing, particularly in the news sphere, says Ben Shapiro, 1611 01:40:28,040 --> 01:40:31,400 so maybe, you know, there, maybe that's just a different view. 1612 01:40:31,400 --> 01:40:34,160 Look at the top news apps. I mean, everyone has categories, 1613 01:40:34,160 --> 01:40:37,460 but try not to do all categories. Try to focus on 1614 01:40:37,460 --> 01:40:38,000 something 1615 01:40:39,560 --> 01:40:41,740 Dave Jones: well. I mean, maybe we can help in this way, like, 1616 01:40:41,740 --> 01:40:47,260 maybe we can publish more data that helps this even more. Like, 1617 01:40:47,320 --> 01:40:54,040 like, you know, we have about 4600 podcasts being followed 1618 01:40:54,040 --> 01:40:57,820 through the pod, through the podcast, a activity, pub bridge. 1619 01:40:58,420 --> 01:41:00,900 Maybe I can publish the list of all those shows, and so that 1620 01:41:00,900 --> 01:41:05,460 way, that's a good idea. Every you know that these shows are 1621 01:41:05,460 --> 01:41:11,760 being listened to by people who are also on the fediverse and 1622 01:41:11,760 --> 01:41:14,280 probably have and that tells you, okay, well, here's an 1623 01:41:14,280 --> 01:41:18,480 audience, here's here's a list of shows that are clearly 1624 01:41:18,480 --> 01:41:22,820 relevant to people in activity, pro and so therefore, I mean, 1625 01:41:22,820 --> 01:41:24,980 like, then you can do something with that information 1626 01:41:25,340 --> 01:41:29,000 Adam Curry: and, and I don't want to put this under the 1627 01:41:29,000 --> 01:41:33,020 general category of discoverability, because that's 1628 01:41:33,020 --> 01:41:37,880 different. This is personality. This is personality of an app 1629 01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:41,140 that draws people to this app. And other people recommend that. 1630 01:41:41,140 --> 01:41:44,560 Oh, you know, it's like, I only like new shows. And so, you 1631 01:41:44,560 --> 01:41:47,140 know, this app recommends that to me, and it does this, and it 1632 01:41:47,140 --> 01:41:51,760 has these highlighted and whatever it is. And as I said, 1633 01:41:51,760 --> 01:41:55,120 you know, like, I think your example of the of activity, pub 1634 01:41:55,120 --> 01:42:00,660 of the fevers, is spot on, spot on for for true fans. I think 1635 01:42:00,660 --> 01:42:06,300 you're right. And and, you know, and so you have fountain clearly 1636 01:42:06,300 --> 01:42:10,320 tapped into nostr. And I hope it grows. I hope it grows really, 1637 01:42:10,320 --> 01:42:14,640 really big. And I think it can, you know, and they should, and 1638 01:42:14,700 --> 01:42:18,180 it's, although I was against it initially, now I'm thinking, 1639 01:42:18,180 --> 01:42:20,900 that's a great idea. Focus on that. 1640 01:42:22,040 --> 01:42:25,460 Dave Jones: Well, it fit it, aside from the technology, I 1641 01:42:25,460 --> 01:42:29,300 mean, the technology itself, argument that's different. But 1642 01:42:29,300 --> 01:42:34,100 like from a perspective, from from fountains perspective, they 1643 01:42:34,100 --> 01:42:39,320 are a they're heavily Bitcoin focused on that. They know that 1644 01:42:39,320 --> 01:42:44,500 they have a strong Bitcoin focused audience. So why would 1645 01:42:44,500 --> 01:42:47,020 they not do the nostr thing? You know what I mean? Like, yeah, 1646 01:42:47,020 --> 01:42:50,380 that's where a lot of their audience is. So it makes sense. 1647 01:42:50,380 --> 01:42:52,780 Adam Curry: That's what I'm saying that. And what they did 1648 01:42:52,780 --> 01:42:56,320 is they took the risk of pissing off people, which they did. And 1649 01:42:56,320 --> 01:43:01,200 I know that they did, and they know it at the for the upside of 1650 01:43:01,200 --> 01:43:03,660 well, we're going to give this core audience who already 1651 01:43:03,660 --> 01:43:08,280 understand Bitcoin and already understand value for value and 1652 01:43:08,280 --> 01:43:10,980 boosting, because they are by far the biggest with the most 1653 01:43:10,980 --> 01:43:15,060 transactions, not always the highest amount, but certainly 1654 01:43:15,060 --> 01:43:19,800 the by volume. And add to that, to that, to that audience that 1655 01:43:19,800 --> 01:43:22,820 that already understands it and wants it and wants more of it. 1656 01:43:23,300 --> 01:43:28,220 That's a bold decision. It's not necessarily for me, but it's a 1657 01:43:28,220 --> 01:43:31,040 bold decision. It's good. I mean, I think that's really 1658 01:43:31,040 --> 01:43:31,760 good, and 1659 01:43:31,760 --> 01:43:34,520 Dave Jones: I and I think he knows that over time, he'll just 1660 01:43:34,520 --> 01:43:38,360 smooth out those initial rough edges and make it where, I mean, 1661 01:43:38,360 --> 01:43:42,040 like, I don't think anything's really on a longer time scale, 1662 01:43:42,040 --> 01:43:44,440 gonna hurt? Well, 1663 01:43:45,940 --> 01:43:49,600 Adam Curry: it's okay. The future of media is small focus 1664 01:43:49,600 --> 01:43:53,260 on an audience that you can reach and completely satisfy you 1665 01:43:53,260 --> 01:43:57,700 can't be I mean, why do people buy different radios? Why do 1666 01:43:57,700 --> 01:44:00,660 people buy different television sets? You know, there's all 1667 01:44:00,660 --> 01:44:03,300 kinds of, well, I'd like this because it has Netflix built 1668 01:44:03,300 --> 01:44:06,780 into it. I like this because it does that. It this has 3d I can 1669 01:44:06,780 --> 01:44:09,660 put my 3d goggles on. It switches automatically. You 1670 01:44:09,660 --> 01:44:12,000 know, there's all kinds of things. And that 1671 01:44:12,000 --> 01:44:15,360 differentiation, it just really hit me when I when I saw this 1672 01:44:15,360 --> 01:44:17,820 Hollywood Reporter, and particularly from Rachel Maddow, 1673 01:44:17,820 --> 01:44:20,660 who I really am not a fan of, but, like, you know, she's 1674 01:44:20,660 --> 01:44:23,060 saying something very interesting here. This is a 1675 01:44:23,060 --> 01:44:27,800 powerful statement. It's like i It seems clunky. It doesn't fit 1676 01:44:27,800 --> 01:44:32,000 to my worldview or what I understand of curation or 1677 01:44:32,000 --> 01:44:36,320 promotion. And, you know, by the way, you could build quite a 1678 01:44:36,320 --> 01:44:41,260 business out of it seems to be like a dirty word. And I'm just 1679 01:44:41,320 --> 01:44:46,720 unlike NPR, I'm commercial. That seems like a dirty word to say. 1680 01:44:46,900 --> 01:44:53,440 Well, you know what? You can buy a spot on the homepage of my app 1681 01:44:53,560 --> 01:44:57,820 to promote your podcast. That's like, it's like, not done. You 1682 01:44:58,600 --> 01:44:59,920 know what? I mean. Yeah. 1683 01:45:00,720 --> 01:45:05,760 Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, that's not your dog. 1684 01:45:05,880 --> 01:45:07,860 Adam Curry: I can, I can hear your dog. Yeah, your dog is not 1685 01:45:07,860 --> 01:45:11,700 Dave Jones: happy, yeah, no, I'm but I'm okay with that. I'm 1686 01:45:11,700 --> 01:45:16,320 totally okay with, like, sponsored, you know, placement, 1687 01:45:16,320 --> 01:45:19,860 because if somebody cares enough to spend some money to put that 1688 01:45:19,860 --> 01:45:23,780 in, you know that to promote that into in an app that I that 1689 01:45:23,780 --> 01:45:28,340 I respect, I'm okay with that. I'm fine with it. This is all 1690 01:45:28,340 --> 01:45:28,580 right. 1691 01:45:28,760 --> 01:45:30,860 Adam Curry: You know, when about the end of the world, there was 1692 01:45:30,860 --> 01:45:33,500 such an opportunity. I know we talked about it when Joe Rogan 1693 01:45:33,500 --> 01:45:39,620 came back on onto open RSS, podcasting, as far as I know, 1694 01:45:39,620 --> 01:45:43,840 not a single podcast app went, Hey, we've got Joe Rogan back. 1695 01:45:43,840 --> 01:45:49,660 Click here. Obvious one, you know, it's like, Hey, you can 1696 01:45:49,660 --> 01:45:52,960 get Joe Rogan here. No, you don't need Spotify come to us. 1697 01:45:54,100 --> 01:45:55,840 Dave Jones: I mean, such a good point. And 1698 01:45:55,840 --> 01:45:58,240 Adam Curry: you can do that from a you know, for all of these 1699 01:45:58,240 --> 01:46:00,840 things, there's so much you can there's so much that can be done 1700 01:46:01,200 --> 01:46:04,620 with this content and and the podcasters would endear you. Oh, 1701 01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:08,820 wait a minute, you're promoting my show. I mean, what? What is 1702 01:46:08,820 --> 01:46:12,180 one of the top things? How do I game apple? How do I get, you 1703 01:46:12,180 --> 01:46:14,400 know? How do I get to Yo, you got to have this many new 1704 01:46:14,400 --> 01:46:18,420 subscribers and this many five star reviews make it to just 1705 01:46:18,420 --> 01:46:21,620 something you do. Doesn't have to be a democracy. 1706 01:46:23,480 --> 01:46:25,640 Dave Jones: I've seen this for a long I've said this for a long 1707 01:46:25,640 --> 01:46:31,520 time that, you know, writing a podcast app is incredibly 1708 01:46:31,520 --> 01:46:35,180 difficult. No kidding, when you the first, the first, the star, 1709 01:46:35,180 --> 01:46:39,920 all these, uh, sort of, writing an RSS feed reader is considered 1710 01:46:39,920 --> 01:46:45,940 sort of like a bootstrap starter app, and then you and then, and 1711 01:46:45,940 --> 01:46:50,680 that's so not true, because to do it well, and to do a podcast 1712 01:46:50,680 --> 01:46:56,740 app Well, takes years and years of commitment. It is not, oh, it 1713 01:46:56,740 --> 01:47:03,120 is so not easy and like, that's I've I've got mad respect for 1714 01:47:03,180 --> 01:47:07,200 every single independent podcast app developer that that exists 1715 01:47:07,920 --> 01:47:14,280 and like to be able to to be able to take all this data and 1716 01:47:14,280 --> 01:47:19,320 plug it into this tiny little interface and do it in a way 1717 01:47:19,320 --> 01:47:23,360 that doesn't feel just like a complete garbage dump, and that 1718 01:47:23,540 --> 01:47:27,020 just that just takes talent. And we all know that user interface 1719 01:47:27,020 --> 01:47:30,500 design is literally the hardest thing in the world to do well. 1720 01:47:30,560 --> 01:47:34,340 So, so how about focus? Maddeningly difficult. So once 1721 01:47:34,340 --> 01:47:37,880 Adam Curry: you have your basic interface design and all podcast 1722 01:47:37,880 --> 01:47:42,580 apps are like email, here's your, here's your here's your 1723 01:47:42,580 --> 01:47:46,540 list, and here's your inbox, and here's the new stuff, and you 1724 01:47:46,540 --> 01:47:50,080 can organize it kind of like an email that's RSS readers the 1725 01:47:50,080 --> 01:47:53,860 same way, but people choose different email clients for 1726 01:47:53,860 --> 01:47:57,040 different reasons. Why is there so many people using proton 1727 01:47:57,040 --> 01:48:00,660 mail? Because they provide reasonably simple to use 1728 01:48:00,660 --> 01:48:04,740 encryption, and there's a feeling there of, okay, my email 1729 01:48:04,740 --> 01:48:09,060 is secure. What do people like about Gmail? Is Gmail so 1730 01:48:09,060 --> 01:48:13,140 incredibly great? Well, some people like it because it's 1731 01:48:13,140 --> 01:48:16,020 unlimited storage, which is not really true depending on how 1732 01:48:16,020 --> 01:48:24,200 much you use. I like the hjkl navigation of it. You know, it's 1733 01:48:24,200 --> 01:48:27,860 all these different features that are very specific to 1734 01:48:27,860 --> 01:48:30,620 specific email clients, and that's why people use them. A 1735 01:48:30,800 --> 01:48:33,920 lot of people like Outlook. Why? Because it integrates with the 1736 01:48:33,980 --> 01:48:38,000 with Microsoft Office, and these, these are all the types 1737 01:48:38,000 --> 01:48:43,480 of things that I think it's well overdue time for podcast app 1738 01:48:43,480 --> 01:48:46,360 developers to at least start thinking about, what can I do, 1739 01:48:46,720 --> 01:48:50,620 what is unique to me, what is unique in my skill set, that I 1740 01:48:50,620 --> 01:48:55,360 can do that will maybe not be the most general app for 1741 01:48:55,360 --> 01:48:59,140 everybody to use, but will attract this audience and that I 1742 01:48:59,140 --> 01:49:02,220 can bring this because once someone who likes encryption 1743 01:49:02,580 --> 01:49:05,940 sees proton mail, they tell someone else how you should use 1744 01:49:05,940 --> 01:49:07,980 proton mail. Yeah, 1745 01:49:09,900 --> 01:49:13,020 Dave Jones: even what you're saying is that, is that app 1746 01:49:13,020 --> 01:49:15,480 developers should not be afraid of having an opinion 1747 01:49:16,560 --> 01:49:20,300 Adam Curry: precisely. And it's, it's a it's a very, it's all. 1748 01:49:20,300 --> 01:49:24,440 You know what it is, it's it's the same hurdle as asking for 1749 01:49:24,440 --> 01:49:28,340 money in value for value. If it's a hurdle you got to get 1750 01:49:28,340 --> 01:49:31,940 over. And most people don't really want to do it because it 1751 01:49:31,940 --> 01:49:36,080 feels dirty. Doesn't feel right for some reason. But we're going 1752 01:49:36,080 --> 01:49:39,200 to do it right now by asking people to support us with some 1753 01:49:39,200 --> 01:49:44,740 money. Let's do it. So I hope, I hope that came across as what I 1754 01:49:44,740 --> 01:49:49,420 wanted to communicate. Because I think so, because I really see a 1755 01:49:49,420 --> 01:49:52,000 future for everybody, and I would use different apps for 1756 01:49:52,000 --> 01:49:54,940 different things. I already do. I already use, you know, if I 1757 01:49:54,940 --> 01:49:57,820 want to share something, I typically will use pod verse, 1758 01:49:59,080 --> 01:50:02,640 but. Know, Fountain has their own way, their own sharing 1759 01:50:02,640 --> 01:50:06,600 thing, which is not particularly something I like with the wheel, 1760 01:50:06,840 --> 01:50:10,440 but, you know, it's like, every there's audiences for all this 1761 01:50:10,440 --> 01:50:13,800 stuff, and there's there's a lot of audiences. And, you know, we 1762 01:50:13,800 --> 01:50:17,040 don't need to compete with Apple. Apple, in fact, is at a 1763 01:50:17,040 --> 01:50:21,860 disadvantage. We know that we can do. They're really trying to 1764 01:50:21,860 --> 01:50:26,720 be all things to all people, and and they're slow. They can't 1765 01:50:26,720 --> 01:50:29,960 develop things, and they have to be all things to all people. And 1766 01:50:30,020 --> 01:50:32,960 you can have a smaller, very dedicated, and I believe, 1767 01:50:32,960 --> 01:50:36,980 supporting user base, which doesn't have to be very big. 1768 01:50:37,100 --> 01:50:41,500 Think about it. If you had, you know, 1000 users, and they're 1769 01:50:41,500 --> 01:50:46,120 all supporting you with, you know, $1 a month. It starts to 1770 01:50:46,120 --> 01:50:48,760 get more interesting, probably, than what most are getting now. 1771 01:50:49,960 --> 01:50:54,940 Just a thought. So looking at the boost that came in during 1772 01:50:54,940 --> 01:51:01,200 the show, well, there's a guess who's at the top. Sam Sethi, 1773 01:51:02,400 --> 01:51:06,180 yeah. And the good news is true, fans can now federate comments. 1774 01:51:06,780 --> 01:51:07,560 Listen, did 1775 01:51:07,560 --> 01:51:08,460 Dave Jones: you get it working? 1776 01:51:08,580 --> 01:51:12,300 Adam Curry: I guess so. Listen, stats and more to all activity 1777 01:51:12,300 --> 01:51:17,340 pub clients. So there you go. Nice, Sam is Sam is finding his 1778 01:51:17,400 --> 01:51:20,700 niche, niche. You want to say something? I 1779 01:51:20,700 --> 01:51:22,880 Dave Jones: need to I need to I need to check and make sure that 1780 01:51:22,880 --> 01:51:25,220 it's working. Because he was said he was having trouble the 1781 01:51:25,220 --> 01:51:30,080 other day getting it to federate out. Uh, wonder if he's posted. 1782 01:51:30,080 --> 01:51:33,620 I don't see him posting anything else about it. Here's the fir, 1783 01:51:33,980 --> 01:51:37,280 oh, okay, wait, let's check this out. Is it working? Here's the 1784 01:51:37,280 --> 01:51:40,540 first ever comment from true fans in the podcast, 2.0 show 1785 01:51:40,540 --> 01:51:45,640 published by activity. Pub, Oh, yep, I see it. Nice, nice, 1786 01:51:45,820 --> 01:51:47,020 excellent, very, nice, 1787 01:51:47,080 --> 01:51:49,420 Adam Curry: excellent. So, yeah, that's that should definitely be 1788 01:51:49,420 --> 01:51:52,360 on the list for your ever growing list is getting some of 1789 01:51:52,360 --> 01:51:55,300 those activity. Pub, stats out. That's cool. I like that. I like 1790 01:51:55,300 --> 01:51:55,900 that idea. 1791 01:51:56,320 --> 01:51:58,180 Dave Jones: I'll do that. Yeah, I'll do that. I'm actually, 1792 01:51:58,180 --> 01:52:02,880 actually was coding in the, in the I spent, actually spent 1793 01:52:02,880 --> 01:52:07,860 quite a bit of time coding, uh, yesterday, last night in the 1794 01:52:07,860 --> 01:52:12,000 podcast, podcast, index, activity, pub, bridge, trying to 1795 01:52:12,000 --> 01:52:14,940 do some troubleshooting, putting in some some new stuff, trying 1796 01:52:14,940 --> 01:52:18,300 to make that thing more stable. So I'm in that code base right 1797 01:52:18,300 --> 01:52:20,340 now. Awesome. 3333 1798 01:52:20,940 --> 01:52:24,080 Adam Curry: from Chad F he says, I like Russell's pod fund idea. 1799 01:52:24,320 --> 01:52:26,660 I've been wanting something like this for a while. Well, your 1800 01:52:26,660 --> 01:52:31,760 request has been granted. Dr Scott, 4567, don't you know? 1801 01:52:31,760 --> 01:52:35,480 Video Killed the Radio Star, kidding. Lol. Side note, I'm 1802 01:52:35,480 --> 01:52:38,600 currently publishing my wife's podcast in two separate feeds. 1803 01:52:38,600 --> 01:52:41,440 One is for audio with an alternate enclosure for video 1804 01:52:41,560 --> 01:52:44,380 and the other for video with altered enclosure for audio. 1805 01:52:45,100 --> 01:52:51,520 Well, that's interesting. I guess that's necessary still to 1806 01:52:51,520 --> 01:52:52,780 do it that way. You know, 1807 01:52:53,860 --> 01:52:59,320 Dave Jones: you know, what I would love is, I would love if 1808 01:52:59,380 --> 01:53:04,680 Apple podcasts app would support HLS through an alternate, 1809 01:53:04,740 --> 01:53:09,720 alternate enclosure tag, and then they could and then they 1810 01:53:09,720 --> 01:53:13,200 streamed the Apple Keynote, the Apple live events. 1811 01:53:14,280 --> 01:53:18,120 Adam Curry: Yeah, their own podcast app, yes, 1812 01:53:18,420 --> 01:53:21,440 Dave Jones: yes. They publish it. They published a video over 1813 01:53:21,440 --> 01:53:22,700 HMS. They do. 1814 01:53:22,820 --> 01:53:24,500 Adam Curry: They do and 1815 01:53:24,560 --> 01:53:28,040 Dave Jones: and they have, they currently have no way to watch 1816 01:53:28,340 --> 01:53:32,480 their own live events, own their own devices, without just going 1817 01:53:32,480 --> 01:53:36,440 into Safari and web page. They should do it within their 1818 01:53:36,440 --> 01:53:42,160 podcast app. And everybody has a feed, silent, feed of just the 1819 01:53:42,580 --> 01:53:46,600 of the apple live event feed or something like that. Yeah, it 1820 01:53:46,600 --> 01:53:49,060 pops up in the podcast app, and there you go. 1821 01:53:53,440 --> 01:53:56,260 Adam Curry: So that's a helipad being triggered by Darren 1822 01:53:56,260 --> 01:54:02,100 O'Neill with 33,333 sets that has, you know, you got to hit 1823 01:54:02,100 --> 01:54:05,460 the big number for that. And Darren says it's all rock and 1824 01:54:05,460 --> 01:54:11,580 roll to me. Thanks for all you do. 1111. From Randall black and 1825 01:54:11,580 --> 01:54:15,480 John's Creek studios. Good job thinking about saving the 1826 01:54:15,480 --> 01:54:18,480 bandwidth for listener slash user and server demand for the 1827 01:54:18,480 --> 01:54:23,300 hosting providers go podcasting. 1234, from dreb Scott, he says, 1828 01:54:23,300 --> 01:54:27,140 Keep alive. Yes, I need to keep alive for my USB. Actually 1829 01:54:27,140 --> 01:54:31,400 switched the USB port so now I'm on the the main USB port, so I 1830 01:54:31,400 --> 01:54:35,840 don't have a pre fader listening capability, but at least it's up 1831 01:54:35,840 --> 01:54:41,020 and up and running. Sal to crayon, 111 from upbeats. Got 1832 01:54:41,020 --> 01:54:45,880 together in the lunchroom for a quickie. Dave Jones, they 1833 01:54:45,880 --> 01:54:48,880 weren't in the pipe for that audio quality. He says, Yeah, 1834 01:54:48,880 --> 01:54:52,240 that's true. No, five by five. That's right. Booberry with 1835 01:54:52,240 --> 01:54:56,740 6666, going to be running lights tonight for Ace freely. Oh, wow. 1836 01:54:56,740 --> 01:54:59,620 Fingers crossed. There's time before the show to onboard him 1837 01:54:59,620 --> 01:55:03,240 with an. And give a quick rundown of musicsideproject.com 1838 01:55:03,840 --> 01:55:06,420 Well, yeah, I'm gonna definitely have my fingers crossed for 1839 01:55:06,420 --> 01:55:10,860 that, brother. That'll be a good one. Yes, please. 1234, from Dr 1840 01:55:10,860 --> 01:55:15,180 Scott. Show title, Dude, where's my show? Actually, I kind of 1841 01:55:15,180 --> 01:55:21,980 like lunchroom. Quickie is the one I'm going with. Side note, 1842 01:55:22,040 --> 01:55:26,300 kiwi, irc.com, is down, so I can't get into the boardroom at 1843 01:55:26,300 --> 01:55:32,300 work. Oh, that's too bad. Didn't realize that the 777, from Dr 1844 01:55:32,300 --> 01:55:34,880 Scott keeping the rodecaster alive. Unfortunately, that all 1845 01:55:34,880 --> 01:55:36,980 comes in on a different a different interface, but I 1846 01:55:36,980 --> 01:55:40,300 appreciate it. Brother, another 1111, from salty crayon howdy 1847 01:55:40,300 --> 01:55:42,700 boardroom got a dumb question for you all. There's no such 1848 01:55:42,700 --> 01:55:46,540 thing on the stats page of podcast index.org It says that 1849 01:55:46,540 --> 01:55:52,240 there's 4,258,428 podcasts in the index. On the value for 1850 01:55:52,240 --> 01:55:58,180 Value tab, it says only 21,126 are V for V enable. Does this 1851 01:55:58,180 --> 01:56:02,760 mean that there is four that 4,000,236 231 that don't even 1852 01:56:03,060 --> 01:56:06,540 enable them for V for V. When I tell people about V for V and 1853 01:56:06,540 --> 01:56:09,900 the index, I want to have my info Correct. Got to be five by 1854 01:56:09,900 --> 01:56:13,800 five. Go podcasting. Yeah, that's correct. Yep. That's 1855 01:56:13,800 --> 01:56:18,060 right. That's so this, technically, anybody can in the 1856 01:56:18,060 --> 01:56:21,260 index. Anybody can enable themselves through podcaster, 1857 01:56:21,260 --> 01:56:27,200 wallet.com, or one of our many partner, APIs, but that number 1858 01:56:27,200 --> 01:56:31,580 is, is just index. That's not feeds, even that's indexes. 1859 01:56:31,640 --> 01:56:36,080 That's index count, right? Yeah, so if we have the shim in place, 1860 01:56:36,080 --> 01:56:41,560 yeah, there you go. Yeah. And another, let's see. That was 1861 01:56:41,560 --> 01:56:45,400 1000 from chat. F, who was actually listening pre stream. 1862 01:56:45,400 --> 01:56:48,220 Thank you very much, Chad. F, that's our boosters live during 1863 01:56:48,220 --> 01:56:52,600 this vacation episode. Dave, what do you have on on the 1864 01:56:52,600 --> 01:56:56,920 PayPals and the monthlies and other boosts? Sam 1865 01:56:56,920 --> 01:57:01,140 Dave Jones: says, If you reply to a true fans dot social 1866 01:57:01,200 --> 01:57:04,140 posting. It doesn't go anywhere currently, but they're going to 1867 01:57:04,140 --> 01:57:08,640 make that visible in true fans itself. If you somebody replies 1868 01:57:08,640 --> 01:57:13,260 from the fever, just an, just an on a live update, okay? 1869 01:57:13,440 --> 01:57:14,100 Adam Curry: Thank you, Sam. 1870 01:57:15,780 --> 01:57:19,860 Dave Jones: We got, yeah, we got some, I guess, some PayPals. We 1871 01:57:19,860 --> 01:57:22,400 got the blueberry team. $300 1872 01:57:23,480 --> 01:57:27,500 Adam Curry: Whoa, hello, blueberry team. Shot Caller, 20 1873 01:57:27,500 --> 01:57:31,340 inch blades on the Impala. Thank you very much. There it is. 1874 01:57:31,340 --> 01:57:33,380 Proof is in the pudding, keeping us alive. 1875 01:57:34,580 --> 01:57:36,920 Dave Jones: Says, Go podcasting from the blueberry team, hold 1876 01:57:36,920 --> 01:57:38,300 the line. Yes, we 1877 01:57:38,300 --> 01:57:40,340 Adam Curry: will hold the line. Holding the line. 1878 01:57:42,260 --> 01:57:44,800 Dave Jones: We got another, see, we got another. PayPal from 1879 01:57:44,800 --> 01:57:47,740 Oscar Mary, $200 bam. 1880 01:57:50,800 --> 01:57:53,020 Adam Curry: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 1881 01:57:55,660 --> 01:57:59,260 Dave Jones: Check your CO two. CO two might be too high. I 1882 01:57:59,260 --> 01:58:02,280 don't even start the show until CO two hits 1000 I'm telling 1883 01:58:02,280 --> 01:58:03,000 you, when 1884 01:58:03,120 --> 01:58:05,340 Adam Curry: I was telling divorce, get fun, I was telling 1885 01:58:05,340 --> 01:58:09,240 Dvorak about that story about what's that guy, Bartlett, the 1886 01:58:09,240 --> 01:58:13,980 die of a CEO, and that when the CO two monitor hits 1000 then he 1887 01:58:13,980 --> 01:58:17,940 stops the interview. And your Dvorak's response was, dude, 1888 01:58:17,940 --> 01:58:27,080 open a window. So good one, yeah, makes total sense. 1889 01:58:27,140 --> 01:58:31,160 Dave Jones: Yeah, Occam's razor. Do the simple thing. We got some 1890 01:58:31,160 --> 01:58:34,100 booster grams. We got, oh, wait, wait, wait, you know what? We 1891 01:58:34,100 --> 01:58:35,480 had a last minute, 1892 01:58:36,380 --> 01:58:38,660 Adam Curry: last minute donation, 1893 01:58:39,860 --> 01:58:43,780 Dave Jones: a one off $10 from see Brooklyn. 112, go 1894 01:58:43,780 --> 01:58:45,160 podcasting. All right, brother, 1895 01:58:45,700 --> 01:58:46,720 Adam Curry: thank you very much. 1896 01:58:49,120 --> 01:58:52,480 Dave Jones: I almost missed it. Man, that was a close one mere 1897 01:58:52,480 --> 01:58:57,160 mortals. Chiron Sasha Richards, 111, through fountain. He says, 1898 01:58:57,160 --> 01:58:59,740 Enjoy Mexico Adam, some of the most beautiful and diverse 1899 01:58:59,740 --> 01:59:03,180 landscapes all jumbled into one country for the police, 1900 01:59:03,180 --> 01:59:05,820 Adam Curry: though it is indeed, it is indeed, it is. It is 1901 01:59:05,820 --> 01:59:09,000 beautiful here. Too bad about all the cars 1902 01:59:09,240 --> 01:59:11,940 Dave Jones: that's I heard Karen's Police Story. If you've 1903 01:59:11,940 --> 01:59:12,540 never heard it, 1904 01:59:13,200 --> 01:59:14,880 Adam Curry: he has a Mexican police story. 1905 01:59:16,080 --> 01:59:21,180 Dave Jones: Oh yeah, yes. It involved prison time. Yes. Uh, 1906 01:59:21,540 --> 01:59:24,260 Chris. Oh. Chris lass from Jupiter, broadcasting, net worth 1907 01:59:24,260 --> 01:59:27,200 20,000 SAS through fountain. He says, killer value to the 1908 01:59:27,200 --> 01:59:30,020 community this week and taking time to talk patiently with 1909 01:59:30,020 --> 01:59:33,380 Robert Lipson, good work. Really been enjoying the board meetings 1910 01:59:33,380 --> 01:59:35,600 recently. Happy belated birthday. Podfather. 1911 01:59:35,720 --> 01:59:37,460 Adam Curry: Oh, thank you very much, brother. Appreciate it. 1912 01:59:39,740 --> 01:59:43,300 Dave Jones: See we got gene bean, 2222 row of ducks there, 1913 01:59:43,300 --> 01:59:46,420 cast O Matic, he says, for location. I hope it utilizes 1914 01:59:46,420 --> 01:59:49,900 latitude and longitude so that it can be easily correlated to 1915 01:59:49,900 --> 01:59:52,300 any mapping tool. Well, 1916 01:59:52,300 --> 01:59:54,220 Adam Curry: it's an option, isn't it? Hasn't that always 1917 01:59:54,220 --> 01:59:56,140 been an option? Long and last, 1918 01:59:56,140 --> 01:59:59,200 Dave Jones: straight up. Yep, straight up. Sir Brown of 1919 01:59:59,200 --> 02:00:03,900 London, 11. 948, through cast O Matic, he says, I have to boost. 1920 02:00:03,900 --> 02:00:07,740 I have to boost at the mention of tiles. Dot pod, ping.org, it 1921 02:00:07,740 --> 02:00:10,860 does link to episodes.fm. Already for most, and it will 1922 02:00:10,860 --> 02:00:14,340 link for all when it is upgraded to handle encoded URLs instead 1923 02:00:14,340 --> 02:00:16,080 of iTunes IDs. Yes, we are all 1924 02:00:16,200 --> 02:00:18,660 Adam Curry: waiting, waiting with bated breath. We can't 1925 02:00:18,660 --> 02:00:22,040 wait. We can't wait to use episodes.fm for everything, 1926 02:00:22,460 --> 02:00:25,940 yeah, tiles, dot pod, ping.org, is pretty, pretty cool to look 1927 02:00:25,940 --> 02:00:26,240 at. 1928 02:00:27,500 --> 02:00:30,080 Dave Jones: Gene bean, 2222 coming in again. He says, preach 1929 02:00:30,080 --> 02:00:33,800 it. Brother Dave, general comment, not about a specific 1930 02:00:33,800 --> 02:00:35,360 thing, just in general. Just 1931 02:00:35,360 --> 02:00:36,860 Adam Curry: in general. Good work. Yeah. 1932 02:00:37,400 --> 02:00:44,920 Dave Jones: Preach in new in Newy in new AB in new way this 1933 02:00:45,820 --> 02:00:52,960 e, n, e, u, b, y, in way, B, and we be, I don't know, 20,000 SATs 1934 02:00:53,380 --> 02:00:56,440 through fountain. He says, Can you make a suggestion of a good 1935 02:00:56,440 --> 02:01:00,780 podcast hosting company, homepod, Libsyn blueberry, who 1936 02:01:01,020 --> 02:01:04,020 appears to be supporting the most 2.0 features, who has best 1937 02:01:04,020 --> 02:01:07,080 value split set up in terms of ease, love the show. Keep 1938 02:01:07,080 --> 02:01:08,880 blazing new trails. Well, 1939 02:01:08,880 --> 02:01:13,500 Adam Curry: if you go to podcastapps.com, I believe you 1940 02:01:13,500 --> 02:01:17,460 can set filters there, so you can say, I want to have hosting 1941 02:01:17,460 --> 02:01:21,200 companies and what they support, and that's a good way to really 1942 02:01:21,200 --> 02:01:22,880 see who provides what. 1943 02:01:24,260 --> 02:01:26,120 Dave Jones: Yep, choose the filters of the tags you want 1944 02:01:26,120 --> 02:01:32,360 supported and yeah. Have have have a shot. Yep. Let's see we 1945 02:01:32,360 --> 02:01:36,980 got Mike Dell Oh, I know Mike. I've heard it 1701 Yeah, 1701 1946 02:01:37,340 --> 02:01:41,800 that's the star. Star Trek boost through fountain. He says, 1947 02:01:41,980 --> 02:01:44,980 finally got my wallet refilled. Well, good for you, Mike. 1948 02:01:45,280 --> 02:01:48,580 Adam Curry: What? What is this? How is 1701 A Star Trek boost. 1949 02:01:48,580 --> 02:01:51,580 I'm not familiar with the numerology of Star Trek 1950 02:01:52,660 --> 02:01:56,500 Dave Jones: because the the designation number of the 1951 02:01:56,500 --> 02:01:58,480 enterprise is NCC, 1701 1952 02:01:58,780 --> 02:02:02,880 Adam Curry: D, Oh, of course, of course, I should have not got 1953 02:02:02,880 --> 02:02:03,960 it, got it. Got it. Got 1954 02:02:05,340 --> 02:02:07,560 Dave Jones: it saturated. Blogger, the delimiter, 27,000 1955 02:02:08,220 --> 02:02:14,640 SATs. He says, Yeah, through Fountas, through fountain he 1956 02:02:14,640 --> 02:02:19,560 says, howdy, biz bros, Dave and Adam. We're approaching an era 1957 02:02:19,560 --> 02:02:21,560 of total unemployment for humans, 1958 02:02:23,060 --> 02:02:25,160 Adam Curry: it sounds like another AI boost. 1959 02:02:26,900 --> 02:02:30,200 Dave Jones: We're already two years into the Gen AI with LLM 1960 02:02:30,200 --> 02:02:33,620 revolution, and in just two more years, the humanoid robot 1961 02:02:33,620 --> 02:02:38,600 revolution will begin, soon to be followed by AGI. The only job 1962 02:02:38,600 --> 02:02:42,040 that might remain for us humans will be content creation. With 1963 02:02:42,040 --> 02:02:44,920 that in mind, I recommend checking out the mp three 1964 02:02:44,920 --> 02:02:51,640 podcast in 4k YouTube videos of bandrew says podcast equals BSP, 1965 02:02:51,640 --> 02:02:55,480 podcast, it covers topics relevant to content creators. 1966 02:02:55,540 --> 02:02:56,620 Yo, CSB, 1967 02:02:58,300 --> 02:03:01,380 Adam Curry: well, that means we're good to go, Dave. We have 1968 02:03:01,380 --> 02:03:04,320 employment for the rest of our lives, for as long as we may be 1969 02:03:04,320 --> 02:03:05,880 here. We got 1970 02:03:05,880 --> 02:03:09,120 Dave Jones: some monthlies. We got Chad Farrow, $20.22 Thank 1971 02:03:09,120 --> 02:03:14,580 you. Jeff. Kevin Bay, $5 uh, thank you. Kevin Cameron rose, 1972 02:03:14,580 --> 02:03:19,320 $25 pod page is Brendan over there in the gang, so he's $25 1973 02:03:19,920 --> 02:03:22,940 Adam Curry: we've been they've been advertising on pod news all 1974 02:03:22,940 --> 02:03:26,660 week. Podpage, have you heard that scene? Yeah, that's good. 1975 02:03:27,680 --> 02:03:30,800 Dave Jones: Mark Graham, $1 new media, $1 thank you guys. 1976 02:03:30,860 --> 02:03:36,800 Randall black $5 just Morocco $5 and Emilio Keno, Molina, $4 1977 02:03:37,460 --> 02:03:39,560 Adam Curry: well, thank you all very much for returning value, 1978 02:03:39,560 --> 02:03:43,240 for the value that we provide with podcastindex.org the work 1979 02:03:43,240 --> 02:03:46,780 that goes into that the board meeting, we are tickled pink, 1980 02:03:46,900 --> 02:03:50,680 and would ask everybody to consider supporting us. You can 1981 02:03:50,680 --> 02:03:53,860 go to podcastindex.org down at the bottom of that page, past 1982 02:03:53,860 --> 02:03:57,460 all the funky stuff and the tiles and the carousel, there's 1983 02:03:57,460 --> 02:04:00,040 a red donation button. You can send this to your fun Fiat 1984 02:04:00,040 --> 02:04:03,360 coupons through PayPal, or, of course, use a modern podcast app 1985 02:04:03,360 --> 02:04:06,000 to boost us, and that will typically get read on the show, 1986 02:04:06,720 --> 02:04:09,060 which also, if you put a note in your PayPal, we'll read that as 1987 02:04:09,060 --> 02:04:11,820 well. Thank you all for supporting the entire project 1988 02:04:11,820 --> 02:04:18,000 known as podcast index.org, and podcasting 2.0 and a special 1989 02:04:18,000 --> 02:04:20,960 announcement, if you are listening live right now, yes, 1990 02:04:21,080 --> 02:04:25,880 special announcement live on the stream next, after we after we 1991 02:04:25,880 --> 02:04:32,780 disconnect, will be a live session from oistin Berger. No, 1992 02:04:32,780 --> 02:04:35,300 you remember we played some of his music on the last show. 1993 02:04:36,380 --> 02:04:41,920 Dave Jones: Yeah? Now, okay, yes, I got him confused with 1994 02:04:42,760 --> 02:04:48,460 who's the guy that does all the AI stuff? That's the we figured 1995 02:04:48,460 --> 02:04:50,440 out later. His music was, oh, 1996 02:04:50,440 --> 02:04:52,600 Adam Curry: Richard grease. Richard grease, that's 1997 02:04:52,600 --> 02:04:53,260 Unknown: it. Richard 1998 02:04:54,880 --> 02:05:00,300 Adam Curry: grease is, let me see, where's his let me. See, 1999 02:05:00,300 --> 02:05:04,620 I'll give you a little preview of some of his musical stylings, 2000 02:05:05,460 --> 02:05:12,960 if you recall. This still cracks me up. This is his mosquito 2001 02:05:12,960 --> 02:05:15,960 mystery track. Oh, that's 2002 02:05:18,000 --> 02:05:20,240 Dave Jones: right, yeah, he's Dutch, right? No, he's 2003 02:05:20,240 --> 02:05:22,100 Adam Curry: well, I think he lives in Holland, but I believe 2004 02:05:22,100 --> 02:05:26,720 he's Danish. I think Danish. Okay, I think so. So make sure 2005 02:05:26,720 --> 02:05:29,720 you listen for that. I'm definitely as as I'm wrapping up 2006 02:05:29,720 --> 02:05:32,480 and getting ready for to head down to the pool. I'm definitely 2007 02:05:32,480 --> 02:05:35,180 going to be listening to that. He's interesting fellow, 2008 02:05:35,180 --> 02:05:38,180 interesting fellow. All right, brother, Dave, thank you so 2009 02:05:38,180 --> 02:05:40,900 much. Another another week in the can. What are you doing this 2010 02:05:40,900 --> 02:05:41,440 weekend? 2011 02:05:43,360 --> 02:05:46,300 Dave Jones: We got my daughter has a she's got a concert 2012 02:05:46,300 --> 02:05:49,600 tonight, and so we're gonna go watch her play. She's playing 2013 02:05:49,780 --> 02:05:53,620 playing guitar in her band. Oh, nice. And, yeah, you 2014 02:05:53,620 --> 02:05:56,200 Adam Curry: want to mention the venue where people can go and 2015 02:05:56,260 --> 02:05:57,040 check her out 2016 02:05:57,940 --> 02:06:00,660 Dave Jones: at the firehouse in downtown Birmingham. All right, 2017 02:06:00,720 --> 02:06:03,000 excellent. Well, yeah, cool. 2018 02:06:03,180 --> 02:06:05,580 Adam Curry: And is she streaming that live like she should be 2019 02:06:06,720 --> 02:06:09,180 Dave Jones: negative. No streaming live, 2020 02:06:09,360 --> 02:06:10,380 Adam Curry: no live stream. 2021 02:06:11,460 --> 02:06:13,440 Dave Jones: All right, board day, one day we will get that 2022 02:06:13,440 --> 02:06:13,860 word. Yeah, you 2023 02:06:13,860 --> 02:06:16,140 Adam Curry: bet boardroom. Thank you very much for being here as 2024 02:06:16,140 --> 02:06:19,920 always. We will return next week, on the Friday, bringing 2025 02:06:19,920 --> 02:06:22,340 everything that's happening in podcasting, right here in The 2026 02:06:22,340 --> 02:06:24,620 Weekly board meeting for podcasting, 2.0 2027 02:06:42,560 --> 02:06:47,080 Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcast 2028 02:06:47,080 --> 02:06:51,280 index.org for more information. Go podcasting. 2029 02:06:52,780 --> 02:06:54,280 Yeah, it is big. You.