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Adam Curry: Podcasting 2.0 for
August, 23 2024 episode 190

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we're in the chateau. Hello
everybody. Once again, it is a

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Friday. You know what that
means? Friday? Fun Day. Yeah.

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It's time for the board meeting
of podcasting. 2.0 everything

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going on in podcasting. There's
no other show needed,

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James Cridland: trust me, we'll
talk about that later. For

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Adam Curry: sure, we are the
boardroom, the only one that

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doesn't need a balloon drop at
the end. I'm Adam curry here in

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the heart of the Texas Hill
Country and in Alabama, the man

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who gives you more feed Id love
than anyone else. Say hello to

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my friend on the other end, the
one, the only Mr. Dave Jones,

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Dave Jones: feed ID. Love,

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Adam Curry: it was, I misread
it. It's by feed ID. Love is

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what I should have said. Oh,

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Dave Jones: okay, you made a

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Adam Curry: new endpoint. Man,
you create an end point, and

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everyone's happy. Well,

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Dave Jones: it's not technically
a new endpoint. It is an

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improvement to an existing
endpoint.

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Adam Curry: You are so awesome.
Dave Jones,

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Dave Jones: I'm not gonna
disagree with you. I'm not gonna

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fight you on it.

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Adam Curry: I don't think people
tell you enough. You know, it's

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like people have no idea the
work well, some do, but I don't

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think people appreciate how much
you do purely for the love of

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podcasting, because let's be

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Dave Jones: here to be
appreciated. Hug me.

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Adam Curry: Okay, baby, come
here. Let me take you in your

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arms. It's all good. That's all
good. I I'm very excited today

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for a couple of reasons.

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Dave Jones: Okay, give them to
me. Okay, well,

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Adam Curry: in a moment, we have
a guest coming up, and it's

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exciting to have him, and I'm
excited to have him on, not so

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much to have him on, but to have
him on at our regular board

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meeting time, because usually
it's like we have to do a show

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at seven at night to accommodate
him.

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Dave Jones: I like the I like
the derision in your voice.

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Adam Curry: I'm excited because
he's the ying to my Yang, but

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I'm also excited, because you
are listening to me right now on

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the curry one beta, or beta, as
our guests might say, What?

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Dave Jones: What does that mean?
The curry

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Adam Curry: Dvorak microphone
company, this is this a joke?

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No, no, you are listening. This
is my, our first mic. It's going

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to be the Curry One is, you're
really listening to the capsule.

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More than anything, the body
isn't it's basically in a toilet

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paper roll.

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Dave Jones: I cannot tell. I'm
still, I'm still not sure if

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you're No, no,

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Adam Curry: I am telling you the
God's honest truth.

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Dave Jones: I need a picture of
this thing.

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Adam Curry: You're going to get
a picture. I don't want to

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publish it yet,

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Dave Jones: in the toilet paper
roll.

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Adam Curry: It's not actually in
a toilet paper roll, but it's in

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a it's in a temporary housing
and we've been, we've been we've

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talked about this for Well,
we've talked about exit

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strategies. God, please give us
anything to get out of this

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podcasting gig. I don't know if
this will lift us up and out,

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but we've been ordering capsules
and stuff for microphones for

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many years. You know, I've tried
many different microphones and

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and it's really Dvorak who's
been driving it, which is, I

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would say extraordinary, because
he's the laziest guy I know when

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it comes to anything, and also
because he has his daughter

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working for us now.

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Dave Jones: Okay, so things,
things actually get done? Yeah,

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exactly. So she does the
publishing

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Adam Curry: company, and we've
done the no agenda ABC book, and

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she also did too many eggs book,
and she's been doing the

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spreadsheet for us for about a
year now, I think.

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Dave Jones: And she's, I mean,
the vinegar book is going to get

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done one day. Oh, please no,

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Adam Curry: this is the
microphone companies instead of

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the vinegar book, trust me.
Okay, and, and, you know, so I'm

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very particular. I'm like, Well,
we're going to do, and, you

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know, sell a branded mic. We're
also going to do a valve

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microphone. You know, we have a,
we'll have a line of three, I

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think, and we want to make it
competitive to everything out

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there. It's cheaper, in fact,
than anything out there. So

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it'll be the curry one podfather
approved microphone, and it will

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make it cheaper than anything
else that's out there. I

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Dave Jones: don't so how, how in
the world are you doing this? I

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mean, like the hardware is,
you've been down the hardware

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road before, and it is hard,
expensive, and yes, all that

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doing

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Adam Curry: exactly what Shure
and road and all those guys do,

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once you find the capsule. And
these capsules, they all come

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from one place,

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Dave Jones: like across so, so
across the industry, all of

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there's only a it's sort of like
my it's sort of like televisions

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and computer monitors. There's
only one or two people that make

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the panels Correct. Okay, it's

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Adam Curry: all from China. The
actual capsule itself. They're

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all from China. And so then, you
know, then you have to find the

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right construction. So this is
very similar, in fact, to me, it

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sounds a little bit better than
the EV 320 really. Oh yeah,

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yeah, it has, it has something
extra in there, I mean, and

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we're doing this now, because in
five years, my ears may be shot.

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You know, it's like, I can, in
fact, he started no agenda

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yesterday, and he's like, before
we started, said, he said, What

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do you think of this? Mike? I
said, it's a dog disconnected

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right now. Like, Oh, really? He
said, Yes, you know, we've been

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through so because I, of course,
I could EQ anything to make it

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sound right, but I know what it
has to have out of the box. And

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so now there's still some
characteristic, you know, we're

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doing scopes and everything, and
some of the body becomes very

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important. Now I want to, I want
to, I want to be, I want to Mike

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that you spit down the tube,
right? No side talkers. I want a

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front talker, which this is, you
don't need a pop filter on it,

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because it has all the internal,
internal very similar to the EB

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320 it's smaller than the EV 320
which I like. So it's not that

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big, heavy monster.

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Dave Jones: EV 320 is a fat, is
a large.

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Adam Curry: So, yeah, it's a
large. So I want something

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that's smaller. This is, well,
this temporary housing is very

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small. It's too small. So there
has to be, I want to be about

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half of the EV 320 but the
price, we're going to go sub 200

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Dave Jones: easy, wow. Oh yeah,
whoa. That's that. That's huge.

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Adam Curry: And I was talking to
Fernando from Sigma audio, yeah,

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had a call with him, or at least
they were going to do a bundle

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Dave Jones: with it, with the
Sigma and with the audio sigma.

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Yeah, that's a great idea, yeah.
So

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Adam Curry: we'll have a bundle.
I mean, I don't know I would

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like retail for Mike headphones
and the and one of the sigma

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boxes for 400 bucks, for between
four and 450

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Dave Jones: that, if, man, if
you could do that, and,

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Adam Curry: and that would be
killer. I would love to throw in

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one of our 2.0 uh, partners, and
do like, you know, three months

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of hosting, or whatever, you
know something like that,

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Dave Jones: yeah, yeah, the
Yeah, like, cotton gin said the

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starter kit, it's the podcast.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Give some

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like, like podcast topic ideas

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Adam Curry: and like, sermon
starters. We'll kick it now.

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We'll kick you in the back to
get you started with talking,

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yeah, a swift kick in the pants.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, that's that's
exciting, dude. I can't if you

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had not told me that this was, I
know, you wouldn't have known.

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This was a different mic. I
wouldn't have known

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Adam Curry: I know because I I
put it on yesterday, I wasn't

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telling John that I was using
it, and when I told me in the

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same reactions like, I don't
hear any difference. Now, you're

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hearing me through clean feed
there. It has a little has a

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little higher output, which I
think really makes it just the

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whole everything. I didn't It's
the same eq as the EV 320 so I

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haven't changed anything.

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Dave Jones: So this was just
plug and play. Plug and Play

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settings, plug and play.

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Adam Curry: Yeah, plug and play.
So, yeah, it'll take, it'll take

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a little press. It'll take a
little bit. But, you know,

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because now we're going into
design phase of the housing and,

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of course, divorced like, I want
the top to be yellow. I said

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over my dead body, the top is
going to be yellow. Why yellow?

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I don't know. Man, he's like,
but I don't just want a black

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and black microphone. Well,
okay, you can make it red then,

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yeah,

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James Cridland: it's actually
kind of, yeah. I

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Adam Curry: thought red mine,
it's to be a differentiator, and

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have red on this. Or curry, and
then what curry? One cook a gold

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curry. One gold. Oh, no, we're
gonna do a gold version. Of

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course, that's what you do.

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Dave Jones: They now, then that
one's 800 but of course,

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Adam Curry: it's made of
platinum. Yes, of course, of

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course, that's what you do. Or
we give them audio. We give the

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gold plated ones to certain sell
celebrity podcasters. Oh,

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celebretty

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Dave Jones: like me, yeah, well,
of course, of course. The so the

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Audio Technica ath in 20x
headphones. Which are good

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headphones? Wait, is

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Adam Curry: that what I have?

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Dave Jones: I think you've got
like the M 50s or something, uh,

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these are, like the in 20s.
Which are I've had these before?

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I think what I've got right now
is like the M 30 or something.

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I'm actually

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Adam Curry: looking I took them
off, so I don't want to get any

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feedback. It doesn't even say on
these headphones what it is.

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Dave Jones: Let me see what mine
is. Hello.

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Adam Curry: I can go to my
order, I guess, and see what

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they are. Let me see I love
these headphones because I was

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always a Sony pro guy.

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Dave Jones: Oh, I lied. Monitor
the buyer, dynamic. DT, seven.

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Adam Curry: I see, oops, almost
i. And so, Audio Technica, let's

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see

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Dave Jones: the audio. Technica,
I've had a pair of the at H, M

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20 x's, and they're really nice.
Here. I have headphones, and

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they're only 50 bucks.

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Adam Curry: I have the M 50x

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Dave Jones: okay, you've got the
step, yeah, you've got, there's

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this, like the 20, the 30, and
then the 50, yeah,

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Adam Curry: these were 149
bucks, what I paid for them.

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Yeah, when the and it was, it
was a buddy of mine, my old

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radio buddy from Holland, he
said, because we always, we

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started with the, remember the
Sony's that were really, like

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half a half a melon on each ear,
yeah, humongous can, yeah, yeah.

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So that was, that's what we used
back in the day. And then the

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Sony pros. Those were, those
were perfect. And I use those

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for many, many years. And then
the audio, because I need an

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over the air close otherwise,
you know, I get there you go,

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get that. Yep,

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Dave Jones: yeah, the 20, the
20s are only 50 bucks. I mean,

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so you're already talking, you
know, if you bought, I think

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that 404 50 is, I think, this
hit for a full for

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Adam Curry: a full package, and
for a rig, yeah. And as you

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know, that rig has the noise
gate, or what he, we call the,

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he calls the denoiser. It has
multiple EQ settings. It's

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really idiot proof, I mean, and
it's just just little buttons

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you just press. I love that guy.

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Dave Jones: What is okay? So let
me, let me go into this just a

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little bit. And I've always
wanted to know number, I guess,

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the internal pop filter stuff.
It doesn't always work. Like

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sometimes I still get some pop.
Yeah, you pop? Sure, yeah. Is

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that? I mean, is that at all? Is
that just because of lower

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proximity, just not fixable?
Right proximity? Yeah, there's

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no you can't actually do it's
not that I don't have a good

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one. It's just,

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Adam Curry: we'll have a guide.
You know, we recommend you fist

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your mic, which means one fist
between your mouth and the

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microphone, yes, oh no, it'd be
a complete curry Dvorak product.

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Dave Jones: You call me with a
mouthful of business. It almost

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got ugly over here.

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Adam Curry: Yes, yes, so I'm
excited, yeah, and I guarantee

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you it will not be for sale at
any podcast conference. I'm not

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gonna go. I'm not gonna have a
booth. I'm gonna go stand over

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the booth. I think so.

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Dave Jones: I just think the
image of you standing there at a

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booth with Todd like beside you
is hilarious.

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Adam Curry: Hey everybody, trap
my microphone. I'm the

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podfather. It would

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Dave Jones: just be Todd bitch
and the whole time about, you

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know, nobody's showing up to my
business.

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Unknown: There's no carpet.
There's no carpet.

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Adam Curry: Hey, let's find out
exactly how Podcast Movement

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Washington DC was, as our guest
today, has been sitting through

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this very patiently. He rushed
through TSA and was able to jump

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into the lounge, into the
lounge, and has set himself up.

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You know him as the radio
futurologist, host, producer and

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00:13:14,819 --> 00:13:18,239
writer of The Daily pod news
newsletter and podcast, co host

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00:13:18,239 --> 00:13:22,579
of the pod news weekly review
and friend of the show say hello

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to James crittland.

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James Cridland: It's very good
to be here. Thank you so much.

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00:13:27,740 --> 00:13:31,520
Adam. I like the noise gate on
this new microphone of yours.

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It's very nice.

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00:13:32,599 --> 00:13:35,419
Adam Curry: Well, the noise gate
is not on the mic, but okay,

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00:13:35,539 --> 00:13:35,899
well,

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James Cridland: whatever it is,
it sounds it sounds better. It

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sounds better. Oh, sounds

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Adam Curry: better. You think it
sounds better than what I had

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before. Yeah, really, yeah,

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James Cridland: you can't. You
can't, you can't hear it

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clicking in and out. It's quite
so much. So

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Adam Curry: it's a good thing.
Oh, interesting. Interesting.

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Anyway,

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James Cridland: not that. And
thank you for the mention of

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beef, of beef milkshake as well.

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Dave Jones: Because, because
Adam mentioned something about

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it, I had to run and make one
really quick.

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Adam Curry: Yes. So James,
you're set up in the American

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Airlines lounge. If anyone wants
to come and and I did. I just

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Dox you, I guess so,

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James Cridland: yeah, I guess
you did, although I think there

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are two here, and I don't know
if I'm in the good one or the

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bad one.

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Adam Curry: So are you in one of
those private rooms, or are you

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just sitting amongst other
people. Are people looking at

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you weird?

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James Cridland: No, I'm in. I'm
in this sort of working thing.

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And I think they call them
working chateau, oh, shutell,

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yes, where you get to sit? And,
wow, how

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Adam Curry: do I spell that? How
do I spell like I was looking at

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00:14:41,060 --> 00:14:44,320
because it sounds like shittel,
but I guess shadow

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James Cridland: Chateau ch

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Adam Curry: looks like chattel,
yeah? Well, if I put another L

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and an E, chattel, well, that's
a show title. There you go.

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Chattel. Yeah?

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Dave Jones: American shit,

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James Cridland: I said I. But I
said, Do you have a quiet room?

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Because I'm going, I need to
make a one hour call. I didn't

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say a podcast, because I'm not,
you know, I need to make a one

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hour call, and I don't want to
annoy anybody else. And they

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pointed me into this, into this
room, and it's all, you know,

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fake wood paneling and and
there's, there's a guy over

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there trying to do some work.
So, yeah, yeah, that's basically

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how it works. We'll

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Adam Curry: try not to make you
laugh, because he'll be looking

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00:15:24,380 --> 00:15:28,040
at you like, what is wrong with
that guy? Yeah, quiet man, I'm

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trying to trade. I'm day trading
over here. Yeah, that'll be it.

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This

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Dave Jones: is a Middle English
shit chatel or chattel. I think

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it's, I think it's chattel. Is
it movable? Movable possession,

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often in plurals.

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00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:48,040
James Cridland: I don't know. I
walk past a sign, and I may not

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00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,260
have read it correctly,
everything in this hotel

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00:15:50,260 --> 00:15:53,860
confuses me. Hotel. Everything
is sorry, everything in this

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00:15:53,980 --> 00:15:57,340
airport, everything in this
airport, confuses me. So, yeah,

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so

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Adam Curry: hold on, hold on a
second. How can it be worse

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00:16:02,519 --> 00:16:06,479
than, than, than Melbourne or
Sydney's airport? What is so

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00:16:06,479 --> 00:16:07,619
confusing? Oh,

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00:16:07,620 --> 00:16:09,600
James Cridland: whoa. I haven't
said it's worse than Sydney's

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Adam Curry: been to Sydney. I
have actually been to Melbourne,

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00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,520
and I've been to Perth with that
stupid train, but that's, you

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00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:18,180
know that story?

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00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,200
James Cridland: Well, yes, yes,
yes, exactly. I would. I would

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00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,960
have used that stupid train, but
it doesn't go to the stupid

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00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:28,100
airport that I use at Perth, at
the terminal. So yeah, anyway,

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it's quite, quite enough of
this. So yes, I was actually

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00:16:31,460 --> 00:16:35,300
sitting next to Todd last night
at the bar, and I was getting

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00:16:35,300 --> 00:16:39,920
exactly that you were
mentioning. There's no carpet.

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00:16:40,039 --> 00:16:42,579
Adam Curry: It's called
grousing. Well, you know, I was

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00:16:42,579 --> 00:16:47,619
talking to to Fernando, and I
don't know if he had a, you must

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have had a some kind of booth.
And he said he lost money on the

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deal. He did sell some units,
but he said he sold 500% more

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00:16:55,719 --> 00:17:00,539
than road caster because they
sold nothing. Right? What? Now,

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00:17:00,959 --> 00:17:05,219
what it feels to me and and I
appreciate you coming on. I know

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00:17:05,219 --> 00:17:08,099
you're not flying to later, but
it's, it's kind of you to jump

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00:17:08,099 --> 00:17:11,159
in and jump in on the on the
show today, because thank you

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00:17:11,159 --> 00:17:14,399
for asking. Well, you know the
shopping to duty free shopping.

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00:17:14,399 --> 00:17:17,219
There's all kinds of wonderful
you can get your shoes shined,

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00:17:17,219 --> 00:17:19,979
all kinds of stuff you could be
doing instead of being with a

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00:17:19,979 --> 00:17:24,379
massage. You can see those
massage chairs. Yeah, get your T

319
00:17:24,379 --> 00:17:32,239
shirts. So to me, it felt a bit
like now, first of all, I agree

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00:17:32,239 --> 00:17:36,319
with Todd a conference hall
without carpet means, man, you

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00:17:36,319 --> 00:17:40,599
really were slashing the budget
and but that doesn't really

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00:17:40,599 --> 00:17:45,999
matter. The timing of it is so
odd, it's during the week, which

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00:17:46,059 --> 00:17:48,819
is difficult for well, it's
difficult for me, because

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difficult for most people. And
also, school is back, which

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00:17:52,479 --> 00:17:56,439
would preclude a lot of the, I
would say, just people who want

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00:17:56,439 --> 00:18:00,899
to be hanging out with other
podcasters who podcast, not

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00:18:00,899 --> 00:18:06,179
necessarily, you know, maybe I
don't know if you want to call I

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00:18:06,179 --> 00:18:09,059
hate the word indie, but just
people who just want to be part

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00:18:09,059 --> 00:18:12,239
of what we're doing. Yeah, and
that maybe they were more brown

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00:18:12,239 --> 00:18:14,939
shoes walking around selling
stuff to each other. What was

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00:18:14,939 --> 00:18:16,679
your impression? Yeah.

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00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,080
James Cridland: I mean, I think
it's much harder to get

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00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,760
independent podcasters, to get
podcasters who do this as a side

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00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,780
hustle, because they've got a
real job, it's very difficult to

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00:18:26,780 --> 00:18:32,900
get them to fly all the way to
National Harbor and to come to a

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00:18:32,900 --> 00:18:34,940
conference that's held
Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.

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00:18:34,940 --> 00:18:38,240
Yeah, absolutely it is. Or
rather, Tuesday, Wednesday,

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Thursday, which it was. So,
yeah. I mean, you know, I think

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00:18:41,620 --> 00:18:45,220
that that's always going to be
an issue. There is a pod Fest in

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00:18:45,220 --> 00:18:50,680
January, which is a good event
for getting in front of those

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00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,500
types of creators. It happens
over the weekend. It's in

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00:18:53,500 --> 00:18:57,220
Orlando. So you can take the
family, you can go, you know,

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and do whatever it is that you
go and do in, in in Orlando. So,

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yeah. So I think this is a
different one in that there was

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00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,840
a lot of the podcast industrial
complex there, yeah, there

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00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:08,280
Adam Curry: it is. Thank you.
Thank you. There

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00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,220
James Cridland: you go. There
was a lot of that going on

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00:19:11,220 --> 00:19:14,760
there, particularly on the first
day, you know, the there was a

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00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:19,200
lot of that. So, so it was an
interesting side to see. You

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00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,880
know, some of the big money in
their Sirius XM stand was three

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00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,540
times the size of anybody else's
massive. Great was it? Was

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00:19:26,540 --> 00:19:27,620
Adam Curry: it invite only?

353
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,440
James Cridland: It was not
invite only. There were a few

354
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:37,160
invite only places. There was
Spotify, which looked very, very

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00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:38,420
nice. I managed to get

356
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,060
Adam Curry: in there. What's on
the other side of that velvet

357
00:19:43,060 --> 00:19:43,600
rope?

358
00:19:44,020 --> 00:19:44,440
James Cridland: Well,

359
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,680
Adam Curry: there's coffee
snacks.

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00:19:48,100 --> 00:19:50,440
James Cridland: There are
jugglers in there. There are,

361
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:55,120
you know, those people, those
people with those large pine

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00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:57,280
palm leaves cooling

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00:19:58,540 --> 00:19:59,320
Dave Jones: down, slaves.

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00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,260
Adam Curry: Just slaves. There
was some,

365
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,260
James Cridland: there was some,
some chocolate. You said it

366
00:20:04,260 --> 00:20:07,200
Adam, not me. There was some
chocolate, chocolate fountains.

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00:20:07,740 --> 00:20:10,320
No, there was, there was there
was there was none of that. But

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00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,400
it was just, it was just a nice
room that they had sort of done

369
00:20:14,460 --> 00:20:15,240
it up a little.

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00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:17,280
Adam Curry: What are they
talking about? I mean, are they?

371
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,800
Are they? What is the mission of
Spotify at a conference where

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00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,320
it's invite only. Are they
looking for advertisers? Are

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00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:25,160
they looking for it?

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00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,220
James Cridland: It's, it's all
for advertisers, all for

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00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:32,900
advertisers and their, you know,
for clients, for the megaphone

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00:20:32,900 --> 00:20:36,140
side of Spotify, for the Spotify
Audience Network, for all of

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00:20:36,140 --> 00:20:39,500
that kind of stuff, so and and,
you know, one of the things that

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I said to my Spotify contact
was, this is absolutely right.

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00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,960
You do need a special space
where you can talk to your, you

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00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,840
know, expensive clients, but you
should also be on the on the

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00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,720
floor. You should also be
talking to the creators as well.

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00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,320
And, you know, so I think that
that's a little bit of a missed

383
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:04,740
opportunity. So, so there was
Spotify. And I also got summoned

384
00:21:04,980 --> 00:21:07,740
to the Libsyn special area,

385
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,520
Dave Jones: that's where they
bring people out

386
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,960
Adam Curry: gallows or
something, or like, when you sit

387
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:16,920
in there and they whip you.

388
00:21:18,060 --> 00:21:20,780
James Cridland: I did feel it
was miles away, absolutely miles

389
00:21:20,780 --> 00:21:23,900
away the other side of the
hotel, really, they had hired a

390
00:21:23,900 --> 00:21:27,200
suite so that they could have
the conversations with their ad

391
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:33,380
partners. And I did feel to as I
was walking, you know, three,

392
00:21:33,380 --> 00:21:37,220
three miles, and you know, 80
different corridors to get

393
00:21:37,220 --> 00:21:44,860
there, I was thinking they could
actually kill you. I it. If I if

394
00:21:44,860 --> 00:21:47,980
I scream, no one will hear them.
Hear me scream.

395
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:49,720
Dave Jones: You're gonna get
black bags.

396
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,380
Adam Curry: I will say I got a
lovely email from Rob Walsh, and

397
00:21:53,380 --> 00:21:56,320
we're talking on Monday. He's
happy. He's happy to tell me,

398
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,320
did you see him? By any chance?
He wasn't there. Was it?

399
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,500
James Cridland: He wasn't there?
You gonna be on the show.

400
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,920
Adam Curry: I haven't I he just
wants to talk, so I'll chat with

401
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:06,900
him, and I'll ask him if he
wants to be on the show, of

402
00:22:06,900 --> 00:22:10,800
course, of course, yeah. And I
love that. I love that he heard

403
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,940
it and that he said, Hey, let's
talk. So that's great. It'll be

404
00:22:14,940 --> 00:22:22,220
good. So besides the showcases
and then the secret rooms and

405
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,940
and the booths and everything.
Did you now, did you speak at

406
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,020
this event?

407
00:22:27,260 --> 00:22:29,900
James Cridland: Yeah, I did. I
did three different panels. So I

408
00:22:29,900 --> 00:22:34,880
was on. I was on one panel. I
moderated two panels, and I also

409
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:40,420
spoke on. I also showed lots of
live demos of AI tools and stuff

410
00:22:40,420 --> 00:22:44,740
like that, which is quite fun.
What AI tools? Oh, you know,

411
00:22:44,740 --> 00:22:47,440
there's plenty of these tools,
some of the tools that get rid

412
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,040
of the background noise.
Occasionally, if you're

413
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,100
listening carefully, you will
hear an elevator that says going

414
00:22:54,100 --> 00:23:00,360
down. So it'll get rid of all of
that. And you know, tools to do.

415
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:04,560
The company, OSHA, launched a
new they call it OSHA

416
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,760
intelligence because, of course
they did, but it was a new way

417
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,820
of you being able to pre fill,
you know, titles and

418
00:23:11,820 --> 00:23:14,880
descriptions and everything else
from the transcript that you

419
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,200
have. So all of those sorts of
sorts of tools, and it's quite

420
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:23,180
fun to demonstrate some of
those, live, yeah, stuff.

421
00:23:23,180 --> 00:23:27,380
Sometimes the Wi Fi falls over
and sometimes it doesn't. It was

422
00:23:27,380 --> 00:23:30,380
only there was only one thing
that didn't work, so everything

423
00:23:30,380 --> 00:23:31,100
else worked. I

424
00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:33,440
Adam Curry: hate doing those.
We're like, well, you know, and

425
00:23:33,500 --> 00:23:38,360
look over here, oh, oh, the Wi
Fi. It's always the Wi Fi slow

426
00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:38,660
here.

427
00:23:41,540 --> 00:23:44,380
James Cridland: So some of it
was so I had a I had a

428
00:23:44,380 --> 00:23:49,120
transcript tool on my laptop, so
I was able to show that working

429
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:52,900
really well. We went and used
ouzio. I think it is one of

430
00:23:52,900 --> 00:23:57,160
these song making things. And I
said, make us make a song about

431
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:01,980
Podcast Movement. And it, and it
made quite a decent, quite

432
00:24:01,980 --> 00:24:05,460
decent song, to be honest. And
so there was all of that kind of

433
00:24:05,460 --> 00:24:08,760
stuff, but it was good. It was
good, good fun to do. I think,

434
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,240
you know, if 90% of it works,
then that's that. Then what were

435
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,240
Adam Curry: the, what were the
the tracks in the sessions? Was

436
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,320
it a lot of how to make money,
or how to do it, or what was the

437
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:20,240
main focus? Yeah,

438
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,520
James Cridland: there's a bunch
of there's a bunch of tracks.

439
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,660
There is, though, there are
still a fair amount of creators

440
00:24:26,660 --> 00:24:29,900
who, who, who turn up. There are
still lots of people that just

441
00:24:29,900 --> 00:24:34,580
want to know how to do stuff and
knowing how to there's the

442
00:24:34,580 --> 00:24:37,220
technical side, but there's also
knowing how to do a good

443
00:24:37,220 --> 00:24:40,600
interview, and knowing how to
plan a show out correctly, and

444
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,780
all of that kind of stuff that
you know, that we have been

445
00:24:43,780 --> 00:24:46,720
involved in the radio industry
for a long, long time, kind of

446
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,840
innately know that actually,
it's not, it's not something, if

447
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,620
you're brand new to it, that
that you know. So, so there was

448
00:24:53,620 --> 00:24:57,520
a ton of that going on. There
was a ton of sort of more

449
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,200
advanced stuff around, uh. Um,
okay, well, here's how to

450
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:06,000
monetize, here's here's how
programmatic advertising works.

451
00:25:06,420 --> 00:25:10,440
Here's how you know, here's what
you should be doing if you want

452
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:16,800
to grow your show, grow your
show. Yeah, water, grow your

453
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:17,160
show.

454
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,200
Adam Curry: So how about the 2.0
stuff? I mean, obviously you

455
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,400
were showing transcripts, any
other 2.0 talk there, or, yeah,

456
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:25,520
I

457
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:30,020
James Cridland: mean, 2.0 was
different. Was difficult, you

458
00:25:30,020 --> 00:25:32,660
know, I bumped into quite a few
people that actually came to

459
00:25:32,780 --> 00:25:35,120
came to talk to me about that,
because they knew that I was

460
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:37,640
there, and they knew that, and
then, and then, you that I

461
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,260
could, you know, help them with
all of that, which was good, not

462
00:25:41,260 --> 00:25:44,620
too much on the schedule itself.
I think it's very difficult.

463
00:25:45,100 --> 00:25:48,280
It's something that I learned
when I was doing working on a

464
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,580
different piece of tech that was
all voluntary and all just

465
00:25:51,580 --> 00:25:55,000
people doing it for the love of
that particular industry. It's

466
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,480
very difficult to get conference
organizers interested in that,

467
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,700
because at the end of, you know,
where's the money, where's the

468
00:26:03,780 --> 00:26:06,000
Unknown: pay to play? Yeah,
okay, yeah. I

469
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,940
James Cridland: mean, and, to be
fair, there isn't too much pay

470
00:26:08,940 --> 00:26:12,900
to play at the at the conference
anyway, but it's just, it's just

471
00:26:12,900 --> 00:26:17,460
hard for them to understand how
big it is without, you know,

472
00:26:17,460 --> 00:26:20,900
having a big PR company going
and going and talking to them

473
00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:21,740
and everything else.

474
00:26:21,860 --> 00:26:25,100
Adam Curry: We only need a big
PR company to go talk to them

475
00:26:25,100 --> 00:26:26,000
that'll do it well. I

476
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,400
James Cridland: mean, that that
would be, that would be a start.

477
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,880
I mean, so, you know, so one of
the one of the panels, for

478
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:37,100
example, that I was running,
that I was moderating, I was

479
00:26:37,100 --> 00:26:40,780
asked to to be moderating that
particular panel by the PR

480
00:26:40,780 --> 00:26:44,740
company of one of the panelists.
So it was very clearly, you

481
00:26:44,740 --> 00:26:47,200
know, they wanted, I mean, they
obviously wanted the best

482
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,680
moderator in the business. They
got it, yes, but unfortunately

483
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:55,180
that they could only find me,
but, but, yeah, you know, so. So

484
00:26:55,180 --> 00:26:59,020
what's very clear is that some
of these are very corporate,

485
00:26:59,020 --> 00:27:02,760
very let's make sure that you
know that everything is said

486
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,340
correctly, and blah, blah, blah.
And then, you know, there were

487
00:27:05,340 --> 00:27:08,580
some really good people there
talking about, you know, proper.

488
00:27:09,060 --> 00:27:12,000
You know proper, you know how to
use microphones, how to start a

489
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,740
video podcast. Lots of talk
about video. Of course, as you

490
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,960
as you would expect, YouTube and
Google were there, but they

491
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,880
didn't speak, you know, Spotify
were there. I don't think that

492
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,720
they had any particular speakers
there, but a lot, really,

493
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,660
Adam Curry: that's surprising,
because the main players, as far

494
00:27:32,660 --> 00:27:36,680
as I understand that in video or
Spotify and YouTube, and they

495
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:37,940
didn't do much about it,

496
00:27:38,540 --> 00:27:42,220
James Cridland: yeah, there was,
it was left to other people to

497
00:27:42,220 --> 00:27:46,420
end up talking about that, that
sort of thing. So there was a

498
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,200
there was a speaker from Spotify
who who interviewed Stephen

499
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:55,420
Bartlett Diary of a CEO who's a
big name in the UK. And his

500
00:27:55,420 --> 00:27:57,880
session was great. His session
was really good. He was

501
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,100
basically sharing all of the
information about how he puts

502
00:28:02,100 --> 00:28:06,480
his show together. It's a really
big, really big interview show,

503
00:28:06,540 --> 00:28:11,100
yeah, that comes out of the UK.
Here's a thing Adam that maybe

504
00:28:11,100 --> 00:28:16,500
you should be doing. He has a in
his studio. He has a carbon

505
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:21,380
dioxide monitor, and he stops
the podcast recording if the

506
00:28:21,380 --> 00:28:25,220
carbon dioxide monitor goes
above 1000 because he says that

507
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,840
if it goes above 1000 then the
interview just gets worse. You

508
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,340
don't get the best. You're also

509
00:28:31,460 --> 00:28:34,820
Adam Curry: killing the world. I
mean, come on, stop already. You

510
00:28:34,820 --> 00:28:39,800
can't be That's a funny idea.
It's great, yeah, that's cool.

511
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,280
That's actually, that's quite
frustrating.

512
00:28:43,300 --> 00:28:45,220
Dave Jones: He was really good.
In

513
00:28:45,220 --> 00:28:48,100
Adam Curry: future, gear will
actually turn off. It'll be

514
00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:51,580
carbon dioxide built in. And if
you talk too much, they'll just

515
00:28:51,580 --> 00:28:53,920
shut down. Say, you got to
continue later, because, you

516
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,020
know, climate change. Yeah,

517
00:28:56,260 --> 00:28:58,600
James Cridland: no. But he was,
he was really good. And, you

518
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,520
know, so and the one thing you
know, if, if it's of if it's of

519
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,780
interest, you don't have to go
to Washington, DC, you don't

520
00:29:06,780 --> 00:29:09,360
have to stay in the in the
hotel, which was a ridiculous,

521
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:10,440
ridiculous now,

522
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:15,600
Adam Curry: where, where, where
was everything in, in regard. So

523
00:29:15,900 --> 00:29:18,660
let me ask it this way, did you
have a chance to see our

524
00:29:18,660 --> 00:29:22,520
wonderful capital and many of
the monuments and buildings and

525
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,200
wonderful structures that are
there.

526
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,280
James Cridland: On the Monday, I
did, because I was into I was

527
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,780
invited to NPR to go and watch a
Tiny Desk concert. Oh,

528
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:34,100
Adam Curry: that was invited to

529
00:29:34,100 --> 00:29:36,380
Dave Jones: NPR. I thought they
should. I didn't think they had

530
00:29:36,380 --> 00:29:42,880
podcasting there anymore,
because somehow they're still

531
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,940
number one in, like all these
charts, are in the top five, and

532
00:29:45,940 --> 00:29:49,060
they have basically fired
everyone. It's just like all

533
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:51,580
James Cridland: fired everyone,
but they've, but they've

534
00:29:51,580 --> 00:29:54,640
certainly, they certainly
slimmed their team down, their

535
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,320
team down a little bit, yeah,
oh,

536
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,900
Dave Jones: James. They nuked
that whole department. I mean,

537
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,640
it's very. A shell of what it
used to be. It's like a It's

538
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,460
like somebody rolled the rock
downhill, and it's still just

539
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:06,240
rolling, even

540
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,400
James Cridland: though there's,
I did walk. I did, you know,

541
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,280
have a look around. You know, we
were queuing up for this, for

542
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,420
this concert, and I, I wanted to
walk around a little bit. But

543
00:30:15,420 --> 00:30:17,940
they've got this beautiful,
beautiful building that was open

544
00:30:17,940 --> 00:30:21,860
about seven or eight years ago,
and all of the desks completely

545
00:30:21,860 --> 00:30:22,700
empty, and

546
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,260
Adam Curry: everybody's working
from home, yeah, yeah. All,

547
00:30:27,260 --> 00:30:30,080
James Cridland: all of the desks
had a laminated sign on on the

548
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,640
keyboard saying clean.

549
00:30:34,340 --> 00:30:37,220
Adam Curry: But I just detected
something. If you come into my

550
00:30:37,220 --> 00:30:40,540
Tiny Desk concert, you've got a
VIP backstage pass, brother,

551
00:30:40,540 --> 00:30:42,700
you're not queuing up for
anything. What's wrong with

552
00:30:42,700 --> 00:30:43,720
these NPR people?

553
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,080
James Cridland: There was still
a queue. There was still a

554
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,240
queue, but that was, but that
would, but that was good. That

555
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,100
was a good that was a good
start. So

556
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,000
Adam Curry: the did Apple have
any presence at the Podcast

557
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:55,900
Movement?

558
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,540
James Cridland: So, I mean, as
you know, Apple never speaks at

559
00:30:58,540 --> 00:31:02,640
any at any conference. That's
not Apple's thing. There were, I

560
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,720
saw two people from Apple there.
I understand that Apple were

561
00:31:07,620 --> 00:31:11,520
grabbing podcast hosting
companies and having quiet

562
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,000
meetings with them. Do we have
any idea of their own what was

563
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,240
being discussed? Well, I mean,
they all, they always do that.

564
00:31:18,300 --> 00:31:23,240
And so I think they do share a
few things of what's coming down

565
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,240
the road, but probably what they
were really doing is explaining

566
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,140
how the new Apple podcasts web
player, or indeed, the Android

567
00:31:30,140 --> 00:31:31,820
app. Okay, so

568
00:31:32,300 --> 00:31:36,080
Adam Curry: let me just, let me
just say this about that. I have

569
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,380
some thoughts about Apple
podcasts on the web. The first

570
00:31:39,380 --> 00:31:45,340
one is they are trying to
destroy our 2.0 community by

571
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:51,040
driving a wedge between Adam and
James with this Android bet. So

572
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,620
I think that's the only reason
they did it. I have other other

573
00:31:53,620 --> 00:31:58,780
theories, but you, for some
reason, have, have, have called

574
00:31:58,780 --> 00:32:04,020
me a Welch on the on the bet.
Well, I've listened to the pod

575
00:32:04,020 --> 00:32:06,480
news weekly review when you
like, well, Adam's not going to

576
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,120
pay up. So,

577
00:32:09,540 --> 00:32:11,880
James Cridland: I mean, I think,
I think Fair enough. I was

578
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,700
saying they'll launch an Android
app, and you said they'll never

579
00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:16,980
launch an Android app. And what
they've essentially done, that,

580
00:32:16,980 --> 00:32:21,200
was it, yeah, yeah, they've
essentially done is they've

581
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,620
launched a PWA so you can
install it as an app,

582
00:32:24,620 --> 00:32:28,040
Dave Jones: yes, but it's not a
PWA. It doesn't have a manifest,

583
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,140
right? And, by the way, it does.
It does have

584
00:32:30,140 --> 00:32:32,660
James Cridland: a manifesto.
There's one line. There's one

585
00:32:32,660 --> 00:32:40,120
that isn't, that isn't there. I
have tipped the wink to the to

586
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,960
the guy from Apple who was
there, and he said, it will get

587
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,900
in there, but we're a big
organization. We've got to do

588
00:32:46,900 --> 00:32:50,020
some QA and everything else.
It's just one line in a

589
00:32:50,020 --> 00:32:51,640
manifesto. It'll take a couple
of weeks.

590
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,400
Adam Curry: James, what do you
think the strat I actually do

591
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,860
have some thoughts about this.
What do you think the strategy

592
00:32:56,860 --> 00:33:01,500
is behind? Do I mean, the timing
is obvious, because it's, it's

593
00:33:01,500 --> 00:33:04,620
just around a podcast
conference. So that makes sense.

594
00:33:05,220 --> 00:33:09,420
What is the strategy behind them
releasing this severely crippled

595
00:33:09,780 --> 00:33:12,300
almost. PWA,

596
00:33:14,220 --> 00:33:16,260
James Cridland: I think the
strategy. I think there are two

597
00:33:16,260 --> 00:33:18,960
parts of the of the strategy.
And by the way, I do think it's

598
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,060
good news for podcasting 2.0 and
I can explain why in a minute,

599
00:33:23,180 --> 00:33:25,820
but, but I think there are two
parts of the strategy. One part

600
00:33:25,820 --> 00:33:30,980
is they have a lot of legacy
nonsense out there. ITunes for

601
00:33:30,980 --> 00:33:35,180
Windows is the only way of of of
actually getting into Apple

602
00:33:35,180 --> 00:33:39,020
podcasts on your Windows machine
that that clearly, I mean,

603
00:33:39,020 --> 00:33:42,340
that's, that's okay. That makes
ridiculous, yeah, so, so this

604
00:33:42,340 --> 00:33:46,720
gets rid of that. This is also a
backdoor. This is a really

605
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,560
clever backdoor. In the same
week as Apple has said that they

606
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,400
will take 30% of all creator
payments from through Patreon,

607
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,840
yeah, yeah, when it's when it's
done on the app, in the same

608
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:03,180
week, Apple have also launched a
web app, which means that they

609
00:34:03,180 --> 00:34:07,680
don't have to pay Google 30% of
their premium podcast

610
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,820
subscriptions whenever, whenever
anybody signs up. So I think, I

611
00:34:11,820 --> 00:34:15,120
think that's another part of the
of the strategy. It's an easy

612
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:20,180
way into the Android ecosystem
without them having to go

613
00:34:20,180 --> 00:34:24,020
through Google Play and get
approval through Google Play and

614
00:34:24,020 --> 00:34:26,600
have to pay 30% of the Google I

615
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,760
Adam Curry: think you're right.
I think this is, this is their

616
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,300
trial balloon to see exactly how
many people they can convert

617
00:34:33,620 --> 00:34:36,560
that. On one hand, it makes
sense. On the other hand, it's

618
00:34:36,620 --> 00:34:39,920
kind of cutting their nose off
despite their face. So I'm a

619
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,320
little wary of it, because,
yeah, it feels to me like, well,

620
00:34:44,860 --> 00:34:48,100
you know, in some kind of
antitrust case, we can say you

621
00:34:48,100 --> 00:34:51,340
can also just do it on the web,
like we've done, we've proven it

622
00:34:51,340 --> 00:34:56,020
here. You know, I have very
mixed feelings about, I despise

623
00:34:56,020 --> 00:34:59,500
them for not communicating, just
saying, This is why we're doing

624
00:34:59,500 --> 00:35:02,640
it. Yeah. Or at least lie about
it, give me something you know,

625
00:35:02,820 --> 00:35:06,300
other than here it is, and it's
great because it's not great. It

626
00:35:06,300 --> 00:35:09,420
doesn't have all the features in
it, then they should say it

627
00:35:09,540 --> 00:35:13,980
features coming. And on the
hopeful side, I'll say, Gee,

628
00:35:13,980 --> 00:35:18,240
wouldn't it be great if they
tested out other things on the

629
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:21,200
website that they could then
eventually move through their

630
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,980
molasses infrastructure and
approval and QA process to bring

631
00:35:24,980 --> 00:35:25,880
into their app.

632
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,680
James Cridland: Yeah, well, I so
on that the things that the web

633
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,560
app doesn't do, there are only a
few things that the web app

634
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,400
doesn't do. One of them is
transcripts, for some reason,

635
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:43,180
and I don't understand why. One
of them is downloads and

636
00:35:43,180 --> 00:35:47,320
downloads in a web app, I'm not
sure, and Dave will know more

637
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,260
than me on this. I'm not sure
necessarily that you can

638
00:35:50,260 --> 00:35:56,200
download third party files into
your local storage on a web app,

639
00:35:57,340 --> 00:36:00,240
cause and all of that kind of
stuff. So I don't know if you

640
00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:00,900
can do that.

641
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,880
Dave Jones: So then you can, but
it's messy. You can. It's very

642
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,580
unpredictable. What you're going
to get, because you're going to

643
00:36:08,700 --> 00:36:13,200
get you can do it through look.
You can do it through local

644
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,980
storage. But then there's a
thing called set, I think it's

645
00:36:16,980 --> 00:36:21,260
called Session dB. There's,
there's various ways to do it.

646
00:36:21,260 --> 00:36:24,440
And the new, the new, I think
it's the session DB thing,

647
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:28,820
that's the newest one that can
handle larger downloads. But I

648
00:36:28,820 --> 00:36:32,780
think it's very unreliable about
which browsers support it and

649
00:36:32,780 --> 00:36:36,920
which ones actually let you do
it. I mean, it's, yeah, I don't

650
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,680
think I like, I don't think
anybody could rely on that right

651
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:40,780
now. Yeah. But,

652
00:36:40,900 --> 00:36:43,240
James Cridland: and, and then
there's one more thing that

653
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:48,220
Apple podcasts do, index, TV,
yeah, that's right. And then

654
00:36:48,220 --> 00:36:50,440
there's one more thing that
Apple podcasts on the web

655
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:55,600
doesn't do, that I think may be
a bit of a Trojan horse, Adam,

656
00:36:55,600 --> 00:37:00,240
and that is chapters, yeah,
exactly, exactly. Because right

657
00:37:00,240 --> 00:37:04,080
now chapters, of course, the
only chapters that Apple podcast

658
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:09,900
supports are ID three tags,
right and podcasting 2.0 has

659
00:37:09,900 --> 00:37:12,900
JSON chapters or super chapters,
or whatever it is that we want

660
00:37:12,900 --> 00:37:16,380
to call them, and that is
essentially that information,

661
00:37:16,380 --> 00:37:19,320
but so that your browser can
actually see that, so you can,

662
00:37:20,100 --> 00:37:25,460
you can actually make a much
better browser experience. And

663
00:37:25,460 --> 00:37:29,840
so I wonder whether Apple is now
looking at the lack of chapters

664
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,540
because they because, I think
that they do want to make it

665
00:37:32,540 --> 00:37:36,380
feature, you know, to add
feature, feature parity to as

666
00:37:36,380 --> 00:37:39,140
much as they possibly can on the
web. That will kind of make

667
00:37:39,140 --> 00:37:44,260
sense. And so what does that
mean for, for for chapters, are

668
00:37:44,260 --> 00:37:47,980
they going to, as they did with
transcripts, look around at the

669
00:37:47,980 --> 00:37:52,960
podcasting, 2.0 stuff, and go,
You know what? There's a there's

670
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:58,120
a standard here that we can use,
and we can build, build that in,

671
00:37:58,420 --> 00:37:58,660
well,

672
00:37:59,020 --> 00:38:01,380
Adam Curry: very much like, very
much like what they did with the

673
00:38:01,380 --> 00:38:04,500
transcript. In that case, it
would because I know how Apple

674
00:38:04,500 --> 00:38:08,520
thinks. I believe. I'd know how
they think we can't do it for

675
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,060
all. We don't want to do it at
all. So maybe they would do

676
00:38:12,060 --> 00:38:16,980
something like, Well, if we see
the mp three, which would has ID

677
00:38:16,980 --> 00:38:20,720
three, you know, the ID three
chapters in it, then we'll

678
00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:26,240
create, recreate those for cloud
chapters on the web app, and if

679
00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:29,060
you have your own, we'll pass
those through that great. I

680
00:38:29,060 --> 00:38:31,640
could see that'd be the best
way, wouldn't it? Yeah. And I

681
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,220
would love that. That would be
great, because you, because you

682
00:38:34,220 --> 00:38:38,780
can put more more detail into
what did you call them cloud

683
00:38:38,780 --> 00:38:39,380
chapters? I

684
00:38:39,380 --> 00:38:42,340
James Cridland: call them cloud
chapters, yeah. So you can put,

685
00:38:42,340 --> 00:38:46,060
you can put more detail into
that. But if Apple, because

686
00:38:46,060 --> 00:38:49,120
Apple pulls your mp three file
anyway, so if Apple pulls your

687
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,640
mp three file and just has a
look through for the ID three

688
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,540
chapters and makes one, yeah,
that would be, that would

689
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,240
Adam Curry: be good invitation
to anyone from Apple, if you

690
00:38:58,240 --> 00:39:00,960
ever want to come and talk,
maybe just have the ghost of

691
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,020
Steve Jobs on the show, Dave, we
could do that. Yeah, we can have

692
00:39:04,020 --> 00:39:08,160
the ghost of Steve Jobs because,
oh, man, it's, that's just

693
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,420
annoying. I mean, there's such a
huge community we feel, you

694
00:39:12,420 --> 00:39:16,920
know, this obviously so funny.
You know, we've always had these

695
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,860
groups, and we're always talking
about stuff. We always want to

696
00:39:19,860 --> 00:39:25,400
do things. And, you know,
someone, the thing was, Todd,

697
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:30,920
someone subscribed me to this
Whatsapp group, the podcast,

698
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,940
discourse hub. Oh, yeah. And so
there's, there's, there's 55

699
00:39:35,300 --> 00:39:38,960
people in there, and I've been
subscribed to this. How long

700
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:44,860
have I since Saturday? And all
it is is, hey, look, who's here.

701
00:39:44,860 --> 00:39:47,200
Hey, you're here. Yeah, I'm
here. Hey, everybody's here.

702
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,080
Wow, look at this guy. Look, I
just brought in. Hey, should we

703
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,500
do a list of everybody here?
It's like, there is zero

704
00:39:53,500 --> 00:39:58,660
conversation. It's like nothing.
And I'm restraining myself

705
00:39:58,660 --> 00:40:01,440
because I don't want to, you
know. Like, trounce all over it,

706
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,760
but there's nothing, I mean, the
amount of discourse and

707
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,720
conversation we have on podcast
index dot social just, oh, I

708
00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:13,080
cherish it so much, yeah,
because we can all just say

709
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,560
stuff and throw it in wacky
ideas out there and work

710
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,300
together, and it never happens
anywhere else to my knowledge.

711
00:40:20,300 --> 00:40:23,840
I'm not in all the slack groups
and all that, but I just rarely

712
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,380
see it, you know, I rarely see
any, any actual work.

713
00:40:29,179 --> 00:40:31,099
James Cridland: And I think, I
think, to be honest, that's one

714
00:40:31,099 --> 00:40:33,859
of the things that Podcast
Movement does very well, in

715
00:40:33,859 --> 00:40:36,499
that, though there were a lot
of, you know, I spent some time

716
00:40:36,499 --> 00:40:42,459
with the Buzzsprout guys. Lips
was there, always good. But

717
00:40:42,459 --> 00:40:45,819
blueberry were there. There was
a bunch of other folks, OSHA and

718
00:40:45,819 --> 00:40:49,359
a bunch a bunch of other folks,
the RSS guys were there, Ben,

719
00:40:49,359 --> 00:40:55,359
Ben and Alberto, and so it's a
great time for everyone to talk

720
00:40:55,359 --> 00:40:59,439
about stuff, you know. And the
people who were there from from

721
00:40:59,559 --> 00:41:04,319
Apple, they were in the bars.
They were chatting to people,

722
00:41:05,039 --> 00:41:06,239
you know. Or were they paying

723
00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:08,520
Adam Curry: for drinks? Are they
paying for drinks or just

724
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:09,180
consuming

725
00:41:10,260 --> 00:41:12,540
James Cridland: I think, I
think, Well, I think people were

726
00:41:12,540 --> 00:41:15,000
paying them for drinks, to be
honest, Brother,

727
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,140
Dave Jones: brother, you know,
biggest company in the world, by

728
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,580
James Cridland: the way. I will.
Yes, I know. I know exactly,

729
00:41:22,580 --> 00:41:24,980
exactly, but no, you know. So I
think that that's a really

730
00:41:24,980 --> 00:41:28,280
useful thing. It's always good.
We shouldn't underestimate No,

731
00:41:28,279 --> 00:41:31,819
Adam Curry: no, it's it's always
good to get together just, and I

732
00:41:31,819 --> 00:41:34,459
don't want to only talk about
the conference, but again, it's

733
00:41:34,639 --> 00:41:38,779
great that you were there, and
we get a piggyback off of, off

734
00:41:38,779 --> 00:41:45,099
of your your attendance. I'm
concerned personally about what

735
00:41:45,099 --> 00:41:51,399
Spotify for podcasters is doing
with with their hosting, free

736
00:41:51,399 --> 00:41:57,819
hosting offering. Now, as I've
learned from from pod News Daily

737
00:41:57,819 --> 00:42:01,859
and the weekly review, they are
actively advertising, which is

738
00:42:01,859 --> 00:42:05,519
totally their right to do. They
can do whatever, bastards, but

739
00:42:05,519 --> 00:42:08,879
I'm a little, I'm a little
concerned about that. You know,

740
00:42:09,059 --> 00:42:13,199
do you see that? First of all,
do you think there's uptake that

741
00:42:13,199 --> 00:42:18,959
they are taking away people from
the beautifully distributed,

742
00:42:20,219 --> 00:42:24,619
hands on infrastructure that we
have, which I would always

743
00:42:24,619 --> 00:42:27,319
recommend to someone over a big
company, particularly for

744
00:42:27,319 --> 00:42:31,999
hosting. And do you think it's
the uptake is hurting the

745
00:42:31,999 --> 00:42:34,639
existing hosting industry? I

746
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,360
James Cridland: mean, certainly
when you look at so there's a

747
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:42,820
page on the pod news website
which shows people migrating

748
00:42:42,820 --> 00:42:46,720
from one podcast host to
another, and the winner every

749
00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:49,720
single time is a Spotify
company. Now that might be

750
00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:53,380
Spotify for podcasters, the
podcast host used to be called

751
00:42:53,380 --> 00:42:57,700
Anchor, or it might be
megaphone, but it's one of those

752
00:42:57,700 --> 00:43:02,820
two companies who always takes
the majority of the, you know,

753
00:43:02,820 --> 00:43:06,180
of people who are moving away
from other other podcast hosts,

754
00:43:06,720 --> 00:43:10,860
and that's that's a concern. I
think. Now, of course, the

755
00:43:10,860 --> 00:43:13,860
reason why people are doing that
may be that they've lost

756
00:43:13,860 --> 00:43:16,380
interest in their show, and
therefore it's free, and it's a

757
00:43:16,380 --> 00:43:21,320
free place to put it. But, yeah,
I think that that is a concern.

758
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,920
And I think what's more of a
concern is, if Spotify doesn't

759
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:29,840
care about the little people,
then you know, what does that

760
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,920
say about Spotify overall? If
the only thing that Spotify does

761
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:38,840
in these events is to have their
own private space where, if

762
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,100
you're a normal podcaster, you
can't go and talk to them. You

763
00:43:42,100 --> 00:43:45,700
have to have an invitation. You
have to be, you know, you have

764
00:43:45,700 --> 00:43:48,760
to be part of, part of the club,
or you have to be big enough,

765
00:43:48,820 --> 00:43:53,680
right? And I think that that's,
I just think that that that's a

766
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:55,840
misstep. And I agree this.

767
00:43:55,900 --> 00:43:59,380
Adam Curry: I agree it's, it's a
mistake. I mean, I'm none of my

768
00:43:59,380 --> 00:44:03,780
shows are on Spotify. I refuse
to sign a contract to be, you

769
00:44:03,780 --> 00:44:06,540
know, to be on Spotify. I'm just
not going to, I don't care what

770
00:44:06,540 --> 00:44:09,900
it is either, you know, you take
my feed and you take everybody's

771
00:44:09,900 --> 00:44:13,740
feed freely. And as an aside, it
has not hurt me at all.

772
00:44:14,940 --> 00:44:18,420
James Cridland: I don't Yes, and
and so here's the thing, and not

773
00:44:18,420 --> 00:44:22,340
something that very many people
have realized the buzz sprout,

774
00:44:22,580 --> 00:44:27,500
official podcast, buzzcast is
not on Spotify, yeah, and

775
00:44:27,500 --> 00:44:29,960
they've made that very, very
clear why they're not on

776
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:35,180
Spotify. And I, you know, it's
interesting seeing many other

777
00:44:35,180 --> 00:44:38,780
podcast hosts who've put their
official, you know, official

778
00:44:38,780 --> 00:44:42,100
show on the Spotify platform.
And they're thinking, and look

779
00:44:42,100 --> 00:44:46,120
Adam Curry: at what happened.
Look at what happened in was it

780
00:44:46,540 --> 00:44:50,140
South America? Was it was it
Mexico? Yeah, all of a sudden,

781
00:44:50,140 --> 00:44:52,840
well, we're not going to pay
anybody anymore, and the same in

782
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:57,400
Italy, by the way, because Italy
just blew up last summer. All of

783
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,920
a sudden, everyone's talking
about podcasts, and that was.

784
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,760
Because Spotify did this huge
push, they started paying

785
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,580
people, and they're pulling
back. You should, that's a

786
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,300
that's a tip for the for your
news, and they're doing the

787
00:45:09,300 --> 00:45:12,840
exact same thing, and it
destroys everything, because

788
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,660
people just think, oh,
podcasting is on Spotify, and

789
00:45:15,660 --> 00:45:18,720
they don't realize that you can
get it somewhere else because of

790
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:21,740
the marketing push. And they're
just like the, you know, 400

791
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,880
pound gorilla trouncing around,
and, you know, then they walk

792
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:27,980
out and they leave everybody
high and dry.

793
00:45:28,820 --> 00:45:31,040
James Cridland: Yeah. I mean, I
spent some time with the OP

794
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,760
three stats earlier on in the
year, just looking at how big

795
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,120
Spotify was in various
countries. And, you know, I

796
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,920
mean, Colombia, Spotify has 92%
of all of all down exactly,

797
00:45:41,980 --> 00:45:45,640
exactly. I mean, it is, it is
absolutely massive. And so for

798
00:45:45,820 --> 00:45:50,200
Spotify to spend a lot of money
in getting new shows made, and

799
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,560
then all of a sudden pull the
rug from all of those people is,

800
00:45:53,620 --> 00:45:55,600
is really difficult. Well, I
think we don't, we don't

801
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,800
appreciate, actually, how big
Spotify is outside of, Oh, I do.

802
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,820
I do, and the UK and, yeah, but
I also, I also feel

803
00:46:02,820 --> 00:46:06,360
Adam Curry: it's, it's a good
cleansing because I know from

804
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:10,500
the music business that people
who really want a certain type

805
00:46:10,500 --> 00:46:13,980
of content, they will beg,
borrow, steal, do whatever they

806
00:46:13,980 --> 00:46:17,640
need to do to get it. They will
sit by the radio with the pause

807
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,840
button and the cassette deck for
hours to wait until that song

808
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:25,100
comes on. You know, this is old
school. Of course, you talk over

809
00:46:25,100 --> 00:46:31,100
it as the day. I was very hated
by that and so it will cleanse

810
00:46:31,100 --> 00:46:33,740
out the industry and people who
are saying, oh, man, I really

811
00:46:33,740 --> 00:46:36,980
like that show, they will go and
find it elsewhere. They will

812
00:46:36,980 --> 00:46:40,040
find it. I mean this so that in
that regard is good. I'm also

813
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,000
distraught, honestly distraught,
but I knew it was going to

814
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:49,360
happen about the afropods, you
know, and here's my and maybe

815
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:53,980
have more insight into this. But
there was, what, 4000 podcasts

816
00:46:53,980 --> 00:47:01,260
being supported, essentially, I
think, by well intentioned

817
00:47:01,740 --> 00:47:05,520
people who had budget, corporate
budgets to spend on stuff to

818
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:10,260
make their corporation look
inclusive. And that money went

819
00:47:10,260 --> 00:47:13,980
away because money goes away and
they just dropped it.

820
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:18,839
James Cridland: Yeah? This is
Africa podfest. Yeah? The

821
00:47:18,839 --> 00:47:25,279
podfest, yes, yeah, so this is
an afropods, which is a network.

822
00:47:25,819 --> 00:47:30,019
This is, yeah, this is there. It
was a, it was a podcast festival

823
00:47:30,019 --> 00:47:33,919
which lasted for four years.
And, yeah, worked with over 4000

824
00:47:34,219 --> 00:47:38,179
podcasters, advocated for
African podcasting on the world

825
00:47:38,179 --> 00:47:41,559
stage, which is one problem that
you know, and I would tell you

826
00:47:41,559 --> 00:47:45,639
more, but substack is currently
performing a scheduled

827
00:47:45,639 --> 00:47:46,119
maintenance.

828
00:47:48,219 --> 00:47:51,519
Adam Curry: There you go.
Thanks, scheduled, scheduled

829
00:47:51,519 --> 00:47:52,479
today. Yeah,

830
00:47:52,540 --> 00:47:56,020
James Cridland: I would doubt
you say it is. But anyway, yeah,

831
00:47:56,020 --> 00:48:00,160
and and so and so. I think you
know that that was a really

832
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:04,320
useful organization, because it
pulled together all of the

833
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:08,460
African show. And to be honest,
Africa has a real problem in

834
00:48:08,460 --> 00:48:12,480
that many of the countries in
Africa, data is so, so, so

835
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,600
expensive, yeah, yeah, which is
where the alternate enclosure

836
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,600
comes in. Because the the the
alternate enclosure really,

837
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:22,340
really helps, and pod LPS
support of that yeah, means

838
00:48:22,340 --> 00:48:25,820
that, you know, it's just
opening up podcasting for new

839
00:48:25,820 --> 00:48:27,620
people to have a listen. Yeah,

840
00:48:27,620 --> 00:48:29,720
Dave Jones: I was worried about
pod LP for a while because I

841
00:48:29,720 --> 00:48:34,040
just didn't hear any Yeah. And
then, and then he popped up and

842
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,740
said he was, he had been in the
middle of converting everything

843
00:48:36,740 --> 00:48:41,080
to to rely on more on the index,
I guess he gets his expenses

844
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,840
down and that kind of thing. And
so that was good to see that

845
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,680
he's still alive and, you know,
and kicking. Yeah, really

846
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:49,540
James Cridland: good. And, and
he's now available on more

847
00:48:49,540 --> 00:48:53,020
phones as well, more more of
these smaller phones. So, yeah,

848
00:48:53,020 --> 00:48:54,940
no, I think, I think he's, I get
to drop that.

849
00:48:55,060 --> 00:48:57,220
Dave Jones: I can tell you, I
just don't understand, in

850
00:48:57,220 --> 00:49:03,240
general, Spotify for podcasters.
I don't know. I understand why

851
00:49:03,240 --> 00:49:07,620
they may just leave it as a
legacy product that exists for a

852
00:49:07,620 --> 00:49:10,860
long time with no maintenance. I
could understand that, but to go

853
00:49:10,860 --> 00:49:15,600
in and start pushing it again,
that product just makes no sense

854
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,960
to me, and it never, it didn't
when it was anchor. It really

855
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:23,780
doesn't now, it's got to be
costing them a fortune. In 99%

856
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:30,080
of the podcasts on Spotify, for
podcasters, are truly just stuff

857
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:34,160
that it will never get a single
listen by anybody, anywhere,

858
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,580
that is just, it's just a money
hole. And I don't understand how

859
00:49:37,580 --> 00:49:42,460
they're cutting back. Sort of,
they've, they've really cut back

860
00:49:42,460 --> 00:49:46,480
a lot of the profligate,
profligate spending within their

861
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:51,760
podcast push, but they're
keeping this thing alive. And it

862
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:53,980
is just, it's just confusing to
me.

863
00:49:55,659 --> 00:49:58,359
James Cridland: Yeah, I think
that that's probably fair. I

864
00:49:58,359 --> 00:50:03,659
would say, um. Anchor itself. I
did do some work. When was this?

865
00:50:03,659 --> 00:50:08,879
2020? I did some work on how
much anchor is costing Spotify

866
00:50:08,879 --> 00:50:14,039
in terms of bandwidth, which I
thought was vaguely interesting.

867
00:50:14,039 --> 00:50:19,859
So that's it's doing 7.7
terabytes of data every, every,

868
00:50:19,919 --> 00:50:25,939
every week, no, every month,
every month, which, which adds.

869
00:50:25,999 --> 00:50:29,239
So I worked it out in terms of
Spotify whole bandwidth spill,

870
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,419
because obviously Spotify has a
lot, a lot a lot of music on

871
00:50:32,419 --> 00:50:37,459
there as well, and it adds an
extra 1% onto Spotify. It's

872
00:50:38,119 --> 00:50:39,559
really not that much.

873
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,400
Adam Curry: I have my
stepdaughter here. She's 27 we

874
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:44,560
flew her for she's had a knee
operation, she's been here for

875
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:48,580
10 weeks, and she'll be leaving
again soon. We love her, but we

876
00:50:48,580 --> 00:50:51,880
want our life back. And we flew
in her, her roommate from New

877
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,540
York, who was kind of our fourth
daughter, Mackenzie, and she's

878
00:50:55,540 --> 00:50:58,720
same age, and they were talking
because they've all moved to

879
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:03,300
Apple Music. And the reason why?
Can you guess the reason why?

880
00:51:03,300 --> 00:51:10,080
James, no, go for it. They were
a being between Apple Music and

881
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,980
Spotify, and felt that the
quality of the sound on Spotify

882
00:51:13,980 --> 00:51:19,440
was inferior to Apple Music. Oh,
wow. And that's where you save

883
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,980
on that's what, by the way,
that's what Sirius XM does. I

884
00:51:21,980 --> 00:51:25,400
know that business quite well.
Yeah, they have a lot of higher

885
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:31,220
bandwidth channels and a lot of
stuff. They put on very, very,

886
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:35,780
very narrow bandwidth, yeah,
yeah, just to, just to squash it

887
00:51:35,780 --> 00:51:40,040
onto the Yeah, to be able to fit
it all in. So it seems to me

888
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:45,640
like, although I'm, I'm with
you, James, no one cares. I

889
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,280
thought no one cared about it,
because, you know, when MP

890
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,940
threes came around, I was even
skeptical. Like, wow, man, this

891
00:51:51,940 --> 00:51:56,680
is, this is really degradation
of quality. But once people had

892
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,740
it in their ears and they got
used to it, it was okay. But

893
00:52:00,460 --> 00:52:03,780
when you and you know, Apple
should this is a marketing tip

894
00:52:03,780 --> 00:52:06,960
for Apple, because they clearly
are doing something at a higher

895
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:12,300
bit rate, or whatever it is, and
I haven't investigated it, but

896
00:52:12,300 --> 00:52:15,180
these are just two girls who are
music enthusiasts, and they're

897
00:52:15,180 --> 00:52:18,720
like, Oh no, no. This sucks.
Clearly Apple Music. And then

898
00:52:18,780 --> 00:52:21,800
they don't know why. They're
like, it sounds better. Okay,

899
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:22,640
yeah,

900
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:24,260
James Cridland: so I played
around with Apple Music for a

901
00:52:24,260 --> 00:52:28,760
while, and you can turn it up to
11. You can turn it up to Apple.

902
00:52:30,500 --> 00:52:35,120
Apples, they've got this thing,
which they call lossless audio.

903
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:38,600
Yeah, lossless, yeah, yeah, and
and that, and that sounds

904
00:52:38,660 --> 00:52:42,520
amazing. And if you do that, you
turn off the the volume

905
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:46,300
equalization thing, and you turn
off the spatial audio, which is

906
00:52:46,300 --> 00:52:49,300
madness, but you turn all of
that stuff off, it does sound

907
00:52:49,300 --> 00:52:52,780
fantastic. It does sound really,
really good. But yeah, so you've

908
00:52:52,780 --> 00:52:55,540
got the you've got the
interesting thing of, we've just

909
00:52:55,540 --> 00:52:58,060
been talking about Africa and
the cost of bandwidth, where

910
00:52:58,060 --> 00:53:01,380
actually you need to make stuff
as small as possible. And then

911
00:53:01,500 --> 00:53:05,520
there are people on there high
end speakers who just want

912
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:09,060
really, really good sound, yeah?
But I mean, if you're going to

913
00:53:09,060 --> 00:53:12,060
put, if you're going to put both
the output of Spotify or of

914
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:14,460
Apple music through some
bluetooth headphones, then

915
00:53:14,460 --> 00:53:17,040
you're already squeezing it
down, yeah, absolutely, pretty

916
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:18,660
small pipe as well. Of course.
Just

917
00:53:18,660 --> 00:53:21,920
Adam Curry: want to run through
a few things, 2.0 related. The

918
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:28,220
first is I was a little saddened
I started promoting because I

919
00:53:28,220 --> 00:53:32,120
always promote the modern
podcast apps on no agenda is a

920
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:35,600
reasonably big audience. I look
at the OP three stats, you can

921
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:40,540
see the very high amount of
people using pod verse and

922
00:53:40,540 --> 00:53:45,820
fountain. But really, I mean, I
think Apple is like 30% and all

923
00:53:45,820 --> 00:53:50,020
the rest is just all other apps.
And I started promoting the

924
00:53:50,020 --> 00:53:55,000
funding tag, which, you know,
there's all kinds of reasons

925
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,820
why. I mean, no agenda.
Obviously, we do take

926
00:53:57,820 --> 00:54:01,860
boostagrams, we do take
streaming SATs, but we give all

927
00:54:01,860 --> 00:54:05,520
that away. All of it is split to
other people, to people who help

928
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:09,240
the show. It's basically, it's a
value for value loop. It just

929
00:54:09,240 --> 00:54:13,500
goes right back to other people.
Our main source of value for

930
00:54:13,500 --> 00:54:19,620
value is PayPal and Stripe and
checks actually about 40% and of

931
00:54:19,620 --> 00:54:23,660
course, we're an American
podcast, 40% of our value for

932
00:54:23,660 --> 00:54:27,140
value. People send us paper
checks. People send us cash.

933
00:54:27,140 --> 00:54:30,200
People send us gold and silver,
nut jobs. But we'll take it

934
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:33,620
doesn't matter. We'll count,
hey, we count dollar reduce from

935
00:54:33,620 --> 00:54:37,820
Australia and dollarettes from
Canada, one for one. So even

936
00:54:37,820 --> 00:54:39,860
though you haven't actually
given us money to become a

937
00:54:39,860 --> 00:54:43,120
knight, we'll let you become a
knight. But besides that, I was

938
00:54:43,180 --> 00:54:47,740
surprised how few of the apps
actually have the funding tag

939
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:56,140
surfaced. And I and especially
with Patreon and the ability to

940
00:54:56,140 --> 00:54:59,680
say, hey, just use your modern
podcast that, I mean, it is very

941
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:03,480
it. It removes a step, similar
to a boostogram, where you don't

942
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:06,240
have to go to a browser, go to,
in our case, no agenda

943
00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:10,020
donations.com you can just hit
that button. And I would really

944
00:55:10,020 --> 00:55:15,720
implore everybody to consider
surfacing the funding tag, maybe

945
00:55:15,720 --> 00:55:19,560
even say donate. You know,
donate to this podcast or

946
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:24,860
whatever, because it's, it's
really, Surely not. It's very

947
00:55:27,020 --> 00:55:30,260
See, this is why I like you,
James, don't worry. I've got one

948
00:55:30,260 --> 00:55:32,300
teed up for you. It's coming.
Don't worry, it's coming. Oh,

949
00:55:32,300 --> 00:55:38,060
here we go. So I know pod, but
my daily driver, podcast guru

950
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,920
doesn't have it. I'm like, what
this is, this is an atrocity.

951
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:43,720
It's really a shame. So

952
00:55:43,720 --> 00:55:47,320
James Cridland: way, way, way
back in 2018 Marco Arment, who

953
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:52,000
makes overcast, of course, he
supported the idea of this

954
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,480
payment link and what he was
doing. And I thought this was

955
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,000
just really neat and really
clever. He was just looking

956
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:02,400
through any just shows, yeah,
just grabbing something, yeah,

957
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:06,240
yeah. Just, he was just looking
for a link for to Patreon, or a

958
00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:10,320
link to a few other places, or a
rel equals payment. I think it

959
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:13,320
was a bit, it was a bit clutchy,
but it meant that there were a

960
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:16,680
ton of these things. And he
added this big green payment

961
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:22,340
button, which clearly linked to
donation pages. Everybody jumped

962
00:56:22,340 --> 00:56:25,460
into supporting it. So Omni
studio supported it fireside,

963
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:29,240
which was a podcast host back
then, I think still is supported

964
00:56:29,240 --> 00:56:34,340
that anchor, even anchor, said
that they would support it, and

965
00:56:34,340 --> 00:56:39,080
then Marco pulled it out. And
you know why he pulled it out?

966
00:56:40,580 --> 00:56:44,200
Because he was, he was worried
that Apple would charge 30%

967
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,020
Adam Curry: Yeah, I don't think
Apple will do that,

968
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,180
Dave Jones: because, because of
the because of the thing that

969
00:56:52,180 --> 00:56:56,020
most, that many people don't
understand, which is just

970
00:56:56,020 --> 00:56:59,620
because, well, number one, you,
you're not allowed, I think, by

971
00:56:59,620 --> 00:57:02,940
App Store rules, to put a link
to an external payment system,

972
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,780
or at least at the time you
weren't. I think you can now see

973
00:57:06,780 --> 00:57:09,780
that that that's that's one
thing that has changed. I think

974
00:57:09,780 --> 00:57:13,920
the App Store rules have been
relaxed, so now you are able to

975
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,980
provide a link to an external
payment system, but, well,

976
00:57:16,980 --> 00:57:17,340
you're not,

977
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,840
Adam Curry: but holy, you're not
technically linking to another

978
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:24,440
payment system. Do I just want
you to go to my donation page,

979
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:27,140
Dave Jones: right? And so that
the See, there's, there's the

980
00:57:27,140 --> 00:57:30,560
ambiguity that happens where,
you know, you think it's one

981
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:34,280
thing, but then Apple shows up
and says, Hey, that's, that's

982
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:36,920
this other thing. And then you
have to just argue it out and

983
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:39,620
hope they, hope that they side
with you. Well, I would

984
00:57:39,620 --> 00:57:42,520
Adam Curry: like people to try
it, you know, I would do put

985
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:43,840
that back in because, I

986
00:57:43,839 --> 00:57:46,179
James Cridland: mean, he was, he
was just concerned that this

987
00:57:46,179 --> 00:57:51,159
would be a reason for Apple to
block a new release of overcast.

988
00:57:51,339 --> 00:57:54,879
Because, you know, the new
intern who's, who's got the job

989
00:57:54,879 --> 00:57:57,219
of checking whether or not
overcast is following all of the

990
00:57:57,219 --> 00:58:01,559
rules suddenly sees a green
payment link, and thinks and

991
00:58:01,559 --> 00:58:05,639
thinks, no, this clearly breaks
the rules. And so, you know, he

992
00:58:05,639 --> 00:58:09,779
saw it as a risk, and so
unfortunately, got rid of that.

993
00:58:09,779 --> 00:58:13,979
And I think, you know, for
overcast particularly, to have

994
00:58:13,979 --> 00:58:17,519
supported it, because it's such
a large, independent app, that

995
00:58:17,519 --> 00:58:20,359
was a real that that was a real
shame. But, you know, I mean,

996
00:58:20,359 --> 00:58:23,959
obviously that's going to be one
of those things, but if we

997
00:58:23,959 --> 00:58:27,559
could, I agree. How about the
funding tag is super good.

998
00:58:27,559 --> 00:58:31,279
Wouldn't it be great if Apple
supported it on their web

999
00:58:31,279 --> 00:58:37,879
player? Well, yes, but then I
suppose that would be the

1000
00:58:37,879 --> 00:58:42,279
question around payment links
and is this payment, you know,

1001
00:58:42,699 --> 00:58:45,519
where's the Apple Pay logo and
where's Arthur? Is there

1002
00:58:45,519 --> 00:58:45,939
anything

1003
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,220
Dave Jones: see here? Here's the
Well, here's part of that,

1004
00:58:48,220 --> 00:58:52,180
because that's, that's part of
the issue is that there's no

1005
00:58:52,180 --> 00:58:56,440
sense that I can find, there's
no sense in which there's a

1006
00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:01,500
differentiation between, between
buying something and in a

1007
00:59:01,500 --> 00:59:05,820
donation, like it's pay,
there's, there's a very there's,

1008
00:59:05,820 --> 00:59:10,740
there's no difference there is
in terms of App Store rules and

1009
00:59:10,740 --> 00:59:15,180
guidance and that sort of thing,
yeah, because you one, one is,

1010
00:59:16,260 --> 00:59:19,980
you know, one one is, I'm paying
to have access to this content.

1011
00:59:19,980 --> 00:59:24,680
And the other is, I just want to
give you some money, which

1012
00:59:24,740 --> 00:59:28,940
that's, you know, nobody's ever
going for instance, if you had a

1013
00:59:28,940 --> 00:59:33,980
donation to some charitable
organization, I don't think

1014
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:38,060
Apple is going to force itself
into that, into that payment.

1015
00:59:38,420 --> 00:59:40,600
Say, we're going to take 30%

1016
00:59:41,199 --> 00:59:44,139
Adam Curry: they're not, they're
not that crazy, by the way. Stop

1017
00:59:44,139 --> 00:59:47,919
the presses. True fan supports
the funding tag. Just want you

1018
00:59:47,919 --> 00:59:52,599
to know Sam Sethi is listening.
He donated 7777 you heard the

1019
00:59:52,599 --> 00:59:55,419
heart playing, just so you know,
true fan supports it,

1020
00:59:55,780 --> 00:59:58,420
James Cridland: by the way, so
does the pod news website as

1021
00:59:58,420 --> 01:00:01,320
well. Yes, we support the fun.
Fantastic. Yes, you do

1022
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:01,980
customatic

1023
01:00:01,980 --> 01:00:04,860
Dave Jones: supports it, and
customatic supports it, and it's

1024
01:00:04,860 --> 01:00:07,320
been in the app store for as
long as I can. Well,

1025
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:11,640
Adam Curry: I'm so now I do what
I always do pain. So I will only

1026
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:16,800
be promoting apps that support
the funding tag. I'm just full

1027
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:23,300
of pain. Congratulations. We got
episode.fm soon, very soon, any

1028
01:00:23,300 --> 01:00:29,000
minute now, will be available
for all podcasts in the index.

1029
01:00:29,060 --> 01:00:32,600
You will not need to have an
apple. GUID, is that correct?

1030
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:34,400
Dave, am I understanding this
correctly?

1031
01:00:35,719 --> 01:00:37,999
Dave Jones: Yes, that's right,
Apple and iTunes ID, iTunes,

1032
01:00:38,839 --> 01:00:43,059
yes. So what, what what Nathan's
going to be doing is putting and

1033
01:00:43,059 --> 01:00:46,839
this is actually going to help
us a bunch. He's going to be

1034
01:00:46,899 --> 01:00:52,419
making it where episodes.fm can
link you in the URL using a base

1035
01:00:52,419 --> 01:00:57,519
64 encoded Feed URL. So you can
just encode that thing, pass it

1036
01:00:57,519 --> 01:01:02,219
along, and then it just comes
up, and that immediately helps

1037
01:01:02,219 --> 01:01:06,719
the activity pub bridge, because
then I can take out all that

1038
01:01:06,719 --> 01:01:10,919
messiness in those things, in
the postings that come from the

1039
01:01:10,919 --> 01:01:14,519
bridge and where you have, like,
all, you know, all those badges,

1040
01:01:14,519 --> 01:01:16,139
or whatever you want to call
them, why?

1041
01:01:16,140 --> 01:01:17,700
James Cridland: Why would just
not use the good?

1042
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:23,720
Dave Jones: I think there was a
reason. I think he explained it

1043
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:26,360
once before, and I don't
remember exactly we thought

1044
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:28,940
Adam Curry: about it previously,
and we can't remember it was so

1045
01:01:28,940 --> 01:01:32,420
complicated, so it was just good
to go 64 base encoded is the

1046
01:01:32,420 --> 01:01:36,440
way. Is the way. I love it
though. I think episode.fm is

1047
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:42,100
one of the best improvements we
have put into the podcast

1048
01:01:42,100 --> 01:01:47,380
ecosystem in a long, long time.
It's i. So not all my podcasts

1049
01:01:47,380 --> 01:01:55,000
are on on Apple iTunes, but it's
so beautiful. I mean, just to

1050
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:59,140
just as a link, you know, to
say, Hey, listen to this. Sam

1051
01:01:59,140 --> 01:02:02,640
again. No, I don't think so.
Listen, listen to this episode.

1052
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:08,820
And no, it's once told Kyle,
listen to this episode and

1053
01:02:08,820 --> 01:02:12,600
select your your player. And
then, hey, if you want have it,

1054
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:16,620
always select your favorite
player. It's it's something

1055
01:02:16,620 --> 01:02:20,240
that's been long, long, long
overdue and needed. And I'd also

1056
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:24,380
like to know how, how episode.fm
is going to stay alive. I mean,

1057
01:02:24,380 --> 01:02:28,520
is it? Is it going to be value
for value based How? How is he

1058
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:31,280
going to make money? How is he
going to Yeah, I

1059
01:02:31,279 --> 01:02:33,019
James Cridland: mean, I don't
know that. By the way, it's

1060
01:02:33,019 --> 01:02:36,499
episodes FM with an S on the
end, but I don't know whether

1061
01:02:36,499 --> 01:02:44,199
episodes FM is a costs an awful
lot to host and to run, so maybe

1062
01:02:44,199 --> 01:02:46,539
it doesn't need to stay alive
too well.

1063
01:02:46,540 --> 01:02:50,080
Adam Curry: I want to support
it,

1064
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:53,800
James Cridland: so there should
be a donation link in there, in

1065
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:58,360
Fiat or stats or cash, stats or
cash. Yeah,

1066
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:01,020
Adam Curry: I'm happy to put a
split in anything. It's a

1067
01:03:01,020 --> 01:03:06,000
beautiful, beautiful system.
Now, since we're kind of talking

1068
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:10,320
about activity, pub, etc, James,
I know you're not just a

1069
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:15,000
podcaster, but you, I believe
you're still an advisor. Nostr

1070
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:19,860
in Fountain released. What do
you know about sizing, isn't it?

1071
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:27,320
Well, as much as you. So I, you
know, I have not used nostr in a

1072
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:33,980
long time. I have, obviously, I
have a pub key. I was able to, I

1073
01:03:33,980 --> 01:03:42,040
was able to find it and put it
into to fountain and and so it

1074
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:47,200
worked. And I'm still kind of
trying to figure out what it is

1075
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:50,020
before I give my thoughts. Have
you played around with it, James

1076
01:03:50,020 --> 01:03:51,700
or Dave? Have you played around
with it yet?

1077
01:03:53,139 --> 01:03:57,999
Dave Jones: Yeah. I have, yeah.
I have the I was able to, I

1078
01:03:57,999 --> 01:04:01,319
guess, the the thing that hit me
at the beginning was that, I

1079
01:04:02,219 --> 01:04:04,739
mean, I understand what he's
doing, and it's not confusing or

1080
01:04:04,739 --> 01:04:10,619
anything at all to me. I guess
it's What's is it sort of like,

1081
01:04:10,619 --> 01:04:14,699
once it presents you with a,
sort of like an, I don't know,

1082
01:04:15,419 --> 01:04:19,439
it gets in your way a little
bit. Is, which was what I kind

1083
01:04:19,439 --> 01:04:22,519
of was confused about because it
says Connect existing nostra

1084
01:04:22,519 --> 01:04:26,239
profile or create one. I guess I
kind of wished that I just

1085
01:04:26,239 --> 01:04:32,539
already had one, and then it
just started to work right it? I

1086
01:04:32,539 --> 01:04:35,479
don't, you know, it's sort of, I
guess it's like a little bit of

1087
01:04:35,479 --> 01:04:39,319
a nitpicky thing, but I kind of
wish that it said, hey, you've

1088
01:04:39,319 --> 01:04:43,059
already that, basically already
had one created by fountain

1089
01:04:43,059 --> 01:04:46,599
itself. And then, since they're
so easy to generate, it's just a

1090
01:04:46,599 --> 01:04:50,259
key pair. And then the thing,
maybe there was a thing at the

1091
01:04:50,259 --> 01:04:54,699
top that said, you know, hey,
you're if you want to switch to

1092
01:04:54,699 --> 01:04:58,179
your if you want to use your own
master profile, yeah, yeah.

1093
01:04:58,179 --> 01:05:01,439
Like, I kind of, rather than
sort of. Forcing me into like a

1094
01:05:01,439 --> 01:05:04,739
path where I had to choose
something. I don't know that's

1095
01:05:04,739 --> 01:05:07,739
just my first thought, but I
have lots of thoughts about the

1096
01:05:07,799 --> 01:05:10,499
downstream activity over them.
James,

1097
01:05:11,639 --> 01:05:14,579
James Cridland: I have not tried
it because I've been busy doing

1098
01:05:14,639 --> 01:05:20,159
other things. But I mean, you
know, is this, is this a

1099
01:05:20,159 --> 01:05:22,039
replacement to streaming sets.
Is

1100
01:05:22,940 --> 01:05:26,060
Adam Curry: that discussion?
Yeah, that was my that was my

1101
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:29,660
confusion as well. The way I
understand it, and so, what is

1102
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:34,280
okay? A couple things. So the
way I understand it is, if

1103
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:40,360
someone boosts you in the
fountain app and you have a

1104
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:47,020
profile, then that boost will
also show up on your nostr

1105
01:05:47,020 --> 01:05:53,080
timeline, which I think is kind
of cool. When I look at fountain

1106
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:57,460
itself, you really have if
you're not a nostr user, I don't

1107
01:05:57,460 --> 01:06:00,420
think you get any of the
benefit, because what I'm able

1108
01:06:00,780 --> 01:06:03,540
to, you know, now, I go to my
nostr profile, see people

1109
01:06:03,540 --> 01:06:07,680
commenting on an episode. The
zaps, I think, are basically

1110
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:11,640
just paid likes, which they
already had. So you don't, you

1111
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:15,120
can't, as far as I know, you
can't, right? You can't zap an

1112
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:18,960
episode from nostr and have that
go through your splits, which is

1113
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:21,680
kind of what I thought would
happen, but I don't see any

1114
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:23,540
evidence of that. So

1115
01:06:23,540 --> 01:06:28,760
James Cridland: it's really
adding a social Yes, social

1116
01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:32,240
network, yes in and if you
happen to be on nostr, and you

1117
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:35,240
have to have a bunch of friends
on nostr, yes, all talking about

1118
01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:41,300
Bitcoin and beef milkshakes,
then you can, you know, connect

1119
01:06:41,300 --> 01:06:44,320
with all of those on the
fountain app and that, and that

1120
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:45,220
makes sense? I think

1121
01:06:45,220 --> 01:06:53,080
Adam Curry: yes. And so that
brings me to my point. It's

1122
01:06:53,500 --> 01:06:58,600
because of the nature of the
community on noster now in my

1123
01:06:58,660 --> 01:07:06,120
home feed on fountain. It's very
Bitcoin centric, yeah, and so

1124
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:11,340
that is a little irksome. I
understand it because, and also

1125
01:07:11,340 --> 01:07:16,500
there's a lot of reboosting. And
so I see things multiple times

1126
01:07:16,500 --> 01:07:21,020
like none of bidness keeps
posting about the fountain app

1127
01:07:21,020 --> 01:07:28,640
now with noster. You know, it's,
it's, it's a little, it's not as

1128
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:32,300
diverse, coming from me, that's
funny. It's not as diverse. And,

1129
01:07:32,300 --> 01:07:34,940
you know, I can hit, just hit
podcasts and only see the latest

1130
01:07:34,940 --> 01:07:39,380
episodes or music, I mean, so
that's, that's totally you can

1131
01:07:39,380 --> 01:07:43,000
filter it out, but I'd like it
to just be more, you know, my

1132
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:46,960
friends, I mean, it's okay, it's
nice. I'm scrolling through, oh,

1133
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:49,540
there's, there's a Bible verse,
because I know the person I

1134
01:07:49,540 --> 01:07:52,600
follow, the person on nobster
who posts that, like, Oh, that's

1135
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:54,760
nice. But then it's like,
Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Bitcoin,

1136
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:59,980
Bitcoin. And it just seems like,
you know, the this type of

1137
01:07:59,980 --> 01:08:05,220
integration will. I'd like to be
able to change that. So I don't

1138
01:08:05,220 --> 01:08:08,520
mind the protocol integration,
but I'd like to be able to

1139
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:11,340
change it. And maybe this is and
that's immediately what people

1140
01:08:11,340 --> 01:08:14,220
like Marty bent and other people
have been, have been DMing me

1141
01:08:14,220 --> 01:08:18,660
and saying, hey, you know we can
bridge this with activity, pub,

1142
01:08:18,660 --> 01:08:22,040
so they're already thinking that
way, which I think is good, and

1143
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:24,860
I think that that, and I
believe, Dave, you were already

1144
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:28,280
thinking along those lines, the
ones Oscar got this all up and

1145
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:31,160
running, we would bridge it, and
then you can bridge activity,

1146
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:34,460
pub through, is that in the
future? Yeah.

1147
01:08:34,459 --> 01:08:38,719
Dave Jones: Well, I think, yeah,
fountain chat, F has a good,

1148
01:08:38,959 --> 01:08:41,859
just as a good, simple statement
about that in the in the chat in

1149
01:08:42,039 --> 01:08:45,579
the boardroom, he says it moves
the social aspect of fountain

1150
01:08:45,579 --> 01:08:48,099
onto noster. And I think that's
probably what Oscar was really

1151
01:08:48,099 --> 01:08:51,579
wanting to do, was offload a lot
of that stuff he was doing

1152
01:08:51,579 --> 01:08:57,279
proprietarily in in Fountain,
and move it on to nostr to sort

1153
01:08:57,279 --> 01:09:00,419
of get it off his system. And
they and let's be honest,

1154
01:09:00,419 --> 01:09:06,719
Fountain has a huge Bitcoin
base, and so Master is, yeah,

1155
01:09:06,959 --> 01:09:11,699
they have a huge Bitcoin fan
base. So that made sense for

1156
01:09:11,699 --> 01:09:18,599
them. You know, true I find, I
find it interesting that uh, Sam

1157
01:09:18,599 --> 01:09:21,919
also released true fans, same
time activity post that was next

1158
01:09:21,919 --> 01:09:25,219
on the list, yes, yeah, this
week, which is exciting to me,

1159
01:09:25,219 --> 01:09:27,679
because of, you know, I'm
already deep in the AP

1160
01:09:27,679 --> 01:09:33,619
ecosystem, and what I what I see
is, and it works by the way

1161
01:09:33,679 --> 01:09:36,679
they, you can follow, and they
don't have, they have not

1162
01:09:36,679 --> 01:09:41,379
flipped the switch on, sort of
outputting the the activity, the

1163
01:09:41,379 --> 01:09:46,119
actions into your stream yet,
but you can at least follow your

1164
01:09:46,119 --> 01:09:52,359
cell, your true fans, user as a
activity, pub, timeline. What

1165
01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:56,440
Adam Curry: would make sense to
me is if I can log and I'm okay

1166
01:09:56,440 --> 01:09:59,920
with doing this per app, I don't
really mind it. If I can go to.

1167
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:05,220
True fans and say, okay, connect
my existing activity pub profile

1168
01:10:05,580 --> 01:10:11,640
to my account on true fans. I
don't necessarily want another

1169
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:15,360
Mastodon, an activity pub
account. Is that something that

1170
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:17,520
he already has, or is that
coming? Is that even on his

1171
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,540
roadmap, he'll, he'll boost, I'm
sure, and let us know. But

1172
01:10:21,140 --> 01:10:24,440
Dave Jones: yeah, but I think,
well, they already know you.

1173
01:10:24,440 --> 01:10:28,400
There's already a place in true
fans to put your, to put your,

1174
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:33,500
your current activity pub user
account in there. Okay, see, I'm

1175
01:10:33,500 --> 01:10:37,640
of the opposite opinion, like
when I go to another activity,

1176
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:42,520
pub, like, I don't want to carry
my ID around with me everywhere,

1177
01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:47,500
because, like my it feels
distinct to me, like what I'm

1178
01:10:47,500 --> 01:10:50,800
doing in podcast index, dot,
social David podcast induct,

1179
01:10:50,860 --> 01:10:54,940
social user account, that thing
I want to keep that thing

1180
01:10:54,940 --> 01:10:58,660
isolated and clean to what it's
supposed to be. Then I go over

1181
01:10:58,660 --> 01:11:05,160
here to this other to true fans
or to fountain. And I want

1182
01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:09,120
different IDs over there. I'll
make them look the same, but I

1183
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:12,060
don't want that. I want to be
able to pick and choose what

1184
01:11:12,060 --> 01:11:16,020
cross pollinates across the feta
verse or the nostr verse, or

1185
01:11:16,020 --> 01:11:20,060
whatever you want to call it.
So, I mean, I can, like, what I

1186
01:11:20,060 --> 01:11:24,680
would rather have is some my
user presence over here in true

1187
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:30,080
fans being output as activity
pub. And then I can choose to

1188
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:34,100
like when we when we figure out
how to bridge these things. I

1189
01:11:34,100 --> 01:11:39,200
can choose what flows through
the bridge, over to nos, over to

1190
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:44,320
fountains, nostra relay, and
then back, back and forth. I

1191
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:47,800
think I don't. I'm still of the
opinion that I have been for,

1192
01:11:47,860 --> 01:11:53,500
for a long time, that whether
it's noster or activity pub, the

1193
01:11:53,500 --> 01:11:57,340
the future is bridging
protocols, because they're just,

1194
01:11:57,340 --> 01:12:01,560
it's just obvious that there's
no there's not going to be one

1195
01:12:01,740 --> 01:12:05,580
social protocol that's going to
like win, so to speak. There's

1196
01:12:05,580 --> 01:12:08,640
going to be, well, because you
have blue sky in there too, blue

1197
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:11,820
Sky's got a pretty big user
base. So, I mean, there's,

1198
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:15,300
there's and that's also open. So
we can bridge these. We're, I

1199
01:12:15,300 --> 01:12:17,760
think we're just going to have
to become comfortable with the

1200
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:21,200
fact that we're bridging these
things together. And if Fountain

1201
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:26,360
has a huge if it's got a lot of
activity going on over there on

1202
01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:30,140
their nostr relay, I'm fine with
pulling that stuff back into

1203
01:12:30,140 --> 01:12:33,500
activity pub so that everybody
else can see it. I think that's

1204
01:12:33,500 --> 01:12:36,920
just that seems the wise thing
to do to me.

1205
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:43,480
Adam Curry: Well, what it
certainly taught me, just using

1206
01:12:43,480 --> 01:12:51,280
this for the past day or two, is
that I do enjoy a nice harp. I

1207
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:57,580
do enjoy the I'm gonna have to
take out that triple seven. I do

1208
01:12:57,580 --> 01:13:02,040
enjoy the flow into a social
network. It makes a lot of sense

1209
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:05,220
to me. I like that I could, I
would like to see that stuff

1210
01:13:05,220 --> 01:13:10,500
show up on my psyopshop.com
account, because that's where I

1211
01:13:10,500 --> 01:13:12,840
just do other stuff where I
like, I don't want it on my

1212
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:17,160
podcasting next on social. And
so there's definitely something

1213
01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:21,800
here that that is, I think,
compelling and and people will,

1214
01:13:21,860 --> 01:13:25,400
will, will, will gravitate
towards, yeah. I

1215
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:27,500
Dave Jones: think Eric PP is
right. The important thing is

1216
01:13:27,500 --> 01:13:30,560
that activity is that the
activity is now out there, yeah,

1217
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:34,400
just, just like. The important
thing with podcasting 2.0 is

1218
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:37,640
that there's now hundreds of
1000s of podcast feeds that use

1219
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:42,520
the tags. That's that if you
don't have that first, then

1220
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:45,220
you're dead, nothing. It doesn't
matter how much you want it,

1221
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:49,060
right? Nobody's going to write
apps that include features for

1222
01:13:49,060 --> 01:13:53,920
content that doesn't exist. So
the you know, to me, the the

1223
01:13:53,980 --> 01:13:58,000
more interesting question is,
and this is a philosophical

1224
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:01,020
question, a technological
question, between nostra and

1225
01:14:01,020 --> 01:14:04,860
activity pub, when we went down
this road before. And I think, I

1226
01:14:04,860 --> 01:14:09,120
think James, I think you know
enough about activity pub to to

1227
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:14,280
sort of have to, to have an
opinion on this. Um, the you

1228
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:17,580
know what we what we went down
before, was when you talk about

1229
01:14:17,580 --> 01:14:20,900
activity pub, when it comes to
things like cross app comments

1230
01:14:20,900 --> 01:14:25,520
or just pushing activity out
from in a podcast specific

1231
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:32,900
context. Do you create a new
quote, unquote language of

1232
01:14:32,900 --> 01:14:36,920
activity, pub, action, streams,
activity,

1233
01:14:36,919 --> 01:14:39,139
Adam Curry: stream and sound,
verbs? Yeah,

1234
01:14:39,139 --> 01:14:41,859
Dave Jones: like verbs or and
objects waiting

1235
01:14:41,860 --> 01:14:45,700
James Cridland: for you to say
verbs, talking about verbs,

1236
01:14:45,940 --> 01:14:52,960
Dave Jones: I'm baiting Sam to
send another boost the so if but

1237
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:57,220
do you because what? What I was
told when I started thinking

1238
01:14:57,220 --> 01:15:01,020
about architecting sort of this
activity, pub. Language around

1239
01:15:01,380 --> 01:15:06,660
podcast specific actions was,
hey, don't do that. You know, I

1240
01:15:06,660 --> 01:15:10,440
was quickly told by the, by the
the activity pub wizard beards

1241
01:15:10,620 --> 01:15:15,300
don't do, don't create new
things. Just send everything out

1242
01:15:15,300 --> 01:15:18,000
as a note with a media object

1243
01:15:18,420 --> 01:15:20,960
James Cridland: attaching that.
That's probably, I mean, I, you

1244
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:24,800
know, you, you were saying
earlier that you like your

1245
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:27,440
identities to be a little bit
separate. And I think that, you

1246
01:15:27,440 --> 01:15:30,440
know, I mean, certainly I've
got, I've have a personal email,

1247
01:15:30,440 --> 01:15:33,920
I have a work email. I really
don't like people sending me

1248
01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:36,920
press releases to my personal
email. I get quite grumpy about

1249
01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:42,820
that. Similarly, on fediverse, I
think you can see that, you

1250
01:15:42,820 --> 01:15:46,480
know, I've got, I've got a My
normal fed averse account, and

1251
01:15:46,480 --> 01:15:49,660
then I've got a Fed averse
account, which is, or I could

1252
01:15:49,660 --> 01:15:53,560
sign up for a Fed averse account
on pixel fed. And pixel Fed is

1253
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:56,080
very much around photographs.
And if you want to follow my

1254
01:15:56,080 --> 01:16:00,100
photographs, and you could go
and do that similarly. I think,

1255
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:07,080
I think having the choice of
being able to filter out the

1256
01:16:07,080 --> 01:16:12,480
stuff around my podcast
listening, you know, is

1257
01:16:12,480 --> 01:16:17,280
important as well. And maybe,
frankly, verbs are part of that.

1258
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:21,740
You know, if instead of just
everything being as notes for me

1259
01:16:21,740 --> 01:16:25,580
to be able to have something
where, you know, I'm posting a

1260
01:16:25,580 --> 01:16:28,820
photograph. Now that is a
different verb I am pressing,

1261
01:16:28,820 --> 01:16:32,900
pressing play on on the feed.
Now that is a that is a

1262
01:16:32,900 --> 01:16:38,660
different verb, then that should
allow clients to be able to

1263
01:16:38,660 --> 01:16:44,500
filter that kind of stuff out so
that I follow Dave Jones on on

1264
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:48,340
the fediverse, but I don't get
his posts about such and such,

1265
01:16:48,340 --> 01:16:52,360
or his photographs, because
that's not why I am following

1266
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:53,680
him. You see what I mean? Right,

1267
01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:56,800
Dave Jones: right? Yeah, for
sure. And that I've fighting

1268
01:16:56,800 --> 01:17:00,780
that. I fight that battle all
the time on Mastodon, with

1269
01:17:01,020 --> 01:17:04,740
people that I follow that I want
their technical I want their

1270
01:17:04,740 --> 01:17:08,520
technical posts because I, I,
yeah, they have a lot of good

1271
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:11,880
technical information to post,
but then they also sprinkle in

1272
01:17:12,060 --> 01:17:15,900
tons of politics. And I'm trying
to, like, keyword, filter that

1273
01:17:15,900 --> 01:17:19,140
stuff out, because I don't want
that on my timeline. Yeah, and

1274
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:20,780
that, that's repost.

1275
01:17:20,779 --> 01:17:24,439
Adam Curry: Reposts are the
worst. See that that, yes,

1276
01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:27,499
Dave Jones: in, in, I don't it
even goes, but it goes before,

1277
01:17:27,559 --> 01:17:30,739
you know, farther than that,
into the technical, uh, sort of

1278
01:17:30,739 --> 01:17:34,699
the technical rabbit hole of,
like what you said with verbs,

1279
01:17:34,699 --> 01:17:37,459
you know, you can the activity
pub language. And this is a

1280
01:17:37,459 --> 01:17:41,259
catch 22 that every technology
and open source protocol gets

1281
01:17:41,259 --> 01:17:46,359
into it is the activity pub
language was meant to be

1282
01:17:46,359 --> 01:17:52,179
extensible the protocol itself,
but you rapidly hit a situation

1283
01:17:52,179 --> 01:17:56,019
where there's one dominant
platform, which is Mastodon, and

1284
01:17:56,019 --> 01:17:59,619
nobody wants to extend beyond
that, because if I put In a new

1285
01:17:59,619 --> 01:18:04,259
verb, then it's not going to
quote, show up in Mastodon,

1286
01:18:04,439 --> 01:18:06,239
because all Mastodon understands
is

1287
01:18:06,240 --> 01:18:09,540
Adam Curry: notes, podcasts like
that,

1288
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:11,640
Dave Jones: or Apple podcast,
right? You can't, well, I'm not

1289
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:13,800
going to do chapters because it
doesn't show up in Apple

1290
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:17,880
podcasts. Or I'm not going to do
and so there's this, there's

1291
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:24,200
this, but I think you part of me
nostr is young enough to where

1292
01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:28,220
it's not suffering from this,
because it's still people are

1293
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:33,440
creating 10 new nips every every
five minutes for all these news

1294
01:18:33,440 --> 01:18:36,860
features that they want, because
nothing has been set in stone.

1295
01:18:36,860 --> 01:18:40,660
Yet there is no Mastodon
equivalent in the noster world.

1296
01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:44,980
So it's still being able to
evolve. And I think, I really

1297
01:18:44,980 --> 01:18:49,660
think the right way for this is
to push through that barrier and

1298
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:52,600
and this may be wrong. I'm not
ready to die on this hill, but I

1299
01:18:52,600 --> 01:19:00,220
feel like doing AP correctly
means taking it at its word,

1300
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:03,840
just like we did with RSS and
putting a namespace in just to

1301
01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:07,680
extend its functionality, and
just doing it if Mastodon can't

1302
01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:10,920
see the post, well, then, I
mean, who cares? Whatever.

1303
01:19:11,220 --> 01:19:13,080
James Cridland: I would agree
with that. And I think, you

1304
01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:16,260
know, Mastodon shouldn't be
seeing James. Press pause on

1305
01:19:16,260 --> 01:19:19,140
this podcast. James. Press Well,

1306
01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:23,660
Adam Curry: James, don't worry,
because on true fans, that's all

1307
01:19:23,660 --> 01:19:24,500
been taken care of.

1308
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:29,120
James Cridland: It's always
taken care of. Everything is

1309
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:32,720
taken care of. I know FM, that's
what

1310
01:19:32,780 --> 01:19:34,760
Adam Curry: is there. All right,
gentlemen, I'm going to break

1311
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:37,460
this party up for just a second.
Going to play a little bit of

1312
01:19:37,460 --> 01:19:41,080
music to give us a pause here.
We will be back. This is from

1313
01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:44,260
the value verse of using a
modern podcast app. Please boost

1314
01:19:44,260 --> 01:19:47,980
and tell them you heard it on
podcasting 2.0 it's Chris winsky

1315
01:19:47,980 --> 01:19:53,800
with banjo, and you belong to.

1316
01:20:00,060 --> 01:20:09,000
Unknown: Everything they say,
use a light from the Sun

1317
01:20:14,040 --> 01:20:15,600
to carry out your dreams away.

1318
01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:30,740
You be alone just because you
belong, just because

1319
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:44,320
we belong, just because there
were pride. Singing.

1320
01:21:27,620 --> 01:21:37,220
I was catching a falling star in
my dreams. In my

1321
01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:43,720
dreams, Rado, away,

1322
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:59,500
beautiful in between, you'll be
alone just because You

1323
01:22:04,500 --> 01:22:06,900
us, you belong, just because

1324
01:22:11,939 --> 01:22:14,579
we belong, just because

1325
01:22:20,240 --> 01:22:34,940
Adam Curry: sing. Chris winsky,
you belong. Get a strong Holly's

1326
01:22:34,940 --> 01:22:40,460
vibe there, from the from the
harmony. It's like you belongs.

1327
01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:41,620
Anyway,

1328
01:22:42,400 --> 01:22:44,920
Dave Jones: gave me just enough
time during the song to try to

1329
01:22:45,100 --> 01:22:49,240
desperately figure out what this
thing is that John Spurlock has

1330
01:22:49,240 --> 01:22:50,980
built this activity, the

1331
01:22:50,979 --> 01:22:57,579
Adam Curry: browser. Great. I'm
browsing. I can debug it. I can

1332
01:22:57,579 --> 01:22:58,599
debug stuff. And

1333
01:22:58,600 --> 01:23:01,380
Dave Jones: he dropped it right
before the show like, I mean,

1334
01:23:01,380 --> 01:23:03,600
browser dot, horrible thing to
do.

1335
01:23:03,660 --> 01:23:07,860
Adam Curry: Yes, browser dot,
pub, by the way. If you want to

1336
01:23:07,860 --> 01:23:10,800
boost Chris Wen, you can always
rewind go, but you can even

1337
01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:13,080
pause it, just pause it right in
the middle of that song, and

1338
01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:16,080
then boost them. I've found
that's very helpful. People seem

1339
01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:18,960
to like think that they can't
boost anymore if it's gone.

1340
01:23:19,860 --> 01:23:22,520
That's the beauty of a podcast.
You can go back and do it later.

1341
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:27,200
It lives on forever. I love the
banjo in this, yeah, I never get

1342
01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:28,220
too much banjo.

1343
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:34,100
Dave Jones: This looks this,
yeah, see so this looks like you

1344
01:23:34,100 --> 01:23:40,300
can just drop anything in to the
browser, to the activity, pub

1345
01:23:40,300 --> 01:23:44,980
browser. You know, we'll just
show you all the guts.

1346
01:23:45,039 --> 01:23:46,179
Adam Curry: Yeah, it's just,
it's

1347
01:23:46,180 --> 01:23:49,120
James Cridland: another really
helpful thing, just, just to

1348
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:49,480
debug

1349
01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:52,419
Adam Curry: stuff for debugging.
Yes, exactly. I debug so much.

1350
01:23:52,419 --> 01:23:53,739
It's great. I'm happy.

1351
01:23:54,340 --> 01:23:56,860
Dave Jones: I mean, like, if
you've written, if you've gone

1352
01:23:56,860 --> 01:24:00,660
down the activity pub, red
rabbit hole of wondering,

1353
01:24:00,660 --> 01:24:02,940
beating your head against the
wall, run, wondering why

1354
01:24:02,940 --> 01:24:06,900
something is not working. This
is a lifesaver. You'll be highly

1355
01:24:06,899 --> 01:24:12,059
Adam Curry: happy with the
debugging. Yes, yes. So I didn't

1356
01:24:12,059 --> 01:24:15,059
get any wallet demo from Oscar,
but that's kind of

1357
01:24:15,059 --> 01:24:16,379
understandable. I guess

1358
01:24:16,920 --> 01:24:21,500
Dave Jones: he's clearly been
busy with the nostr stuff. Yeah,

1359
01:24:22,700 --> 01:24:25,520
so I think that's, I mean, we're
getting there. I mean, we're,

1360
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:29,060
hopefully we're going to talk to
the light Spark,

1361
01:24:29,180 --> 01:24:30,920
Adam Curry: yeah, you know
that's in the middle of my

1362
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:33,680
vacation. You might have to do
that one yourself, Dave, I don't

1363
01:24:33,680 --> 01:24:34,940
know if you, if you mind?

1364
01:24:35,539 --> 01:24:37,039
Dave Jones: Okay, that's fine.
Yeah,

1365
01:24:37,100 --> 01:24:40,220
Adam Curry: I'm sorry. You sound
very protruded. Well, that's

1366
01:24:40,220 --> 01:24:42,580
fine. It's fine. I do do
whatever you need to. Fine.

1367
01:24:42,820 --> 01:24:43,420
Dave Jones: I'll do it. I'm

1368
01:24:43,420 --> 01:24:45,220
Adam Curry: fine. I'm fine.
That's good.

1369
01:24:46,660 --> 01:24:48,820
Dave Jones: No, that's good. I
don't mind doing that at all. Or

1370
01:24:48,820 --> 01:24:51,220
we can just, you know, wait to
get back or whatever. Yeah, that

1371
01:24:51,220 --> 01:24:53,680
matter to me. I'll see what they
want to do. I'm good either way.

1372
01:24:55,300 --> 01:24:58,900
But, I mean, hope sounds like
they have solution there that

1373
01:24:58,900 --> 01:25:03,480
could, uh. That could be a, an
addition to, you know, the out

1374
01:25:03,480 --> 01:25:05,400
the Alby, yeah, management,
well, they

1375
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:09,300
Adam Curry: they have a they
clearly have an API, which is

1376
01:25:09,300 --> 01:25:10,260
great. Still

1377
01:25:10,380 --> 01:25:12,420
Dave Jones: waiting on Zebedee
to contact me.

1378
01:25:13,740 --> 01:25:18,060
Adam Curry: What is wrong with
those people? That was, we're

1379
01:25:18,060 --> 01:25:20,100
here with clients, with
customers.

1380
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:24,320
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. I just
need somebody to contact me. I

1381
01:25:24,320 --> 01:25:27,620
don't know who. I don't remember
the name of the I could just

1382
01:25:27,620 --> 01:25:31,520
pretend if I, if I remembered
her first name, Zebedee makeup

1383
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:33,440
email address, yeah, the Zebedee

1384
01:25:33,440 --> 01:25:37,460
Adam Curry: lady, yeah, exactly.
And are we good now on the V for

1385
01:25:37,460 --> 01:25:40,600
V license, I did? We go through
enough iterations, which came

1386
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:43,420
right after Alex gates caught a
whole bunch of really good

1387
01:25:43,420 --> 01:25:44,020
stuff.

1388
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:48,640
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think so. I
mean, I think, I think, I think

1389
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:52,660
we are, Sam mentioned that the
short code name we had in place

1390
01:25:52,660 --> 01:25:54,940
for the V for free license was
different than what he was

1391
01:25:54,940 --> 01:25:58,120
using, but so I'll just make it
match what his says. Okay,

1392
01:25:58,120 --> 01:26:00,360
doesn't matter, all right, good.
That's fine. But I think that's,

1393
01:26:00,780 --> 01:26:04,800
hopefully that's done, and then
we can move on to better things.

1394
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:09,240
Because the licensing stuff is
just making me angry. You know,

1395
01:26:09,240 --> 01:26:12,000
just a bunch of reading legal
stuff

1396
01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:16,020
Adam Curry: in all kinds, just
the worst favorite, yeah, it's

1397
01:26:16,020 --> 01:26:18,300
just the worst. James, you're
flying back home now.

1398
01:26:19,320 --> 01:26:22,640
James Cridland: Yes, I'm flying
back home now and then. Yes, but

1399
01:26:22,640 --> 01:26:28,040
I've got a whole quarter full of
speaking engagements. I'll be

1400
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:29,180
all over the place. No,

1401
01:26:29,180 --> 01:26:32,060
Adam Curry: well, do tell where
you going. This is your James's

1402
01:26:32,060 --> 01:26:34,340
promo tour. Where are you going
to be? Oh, is

1403
01:26:34,340 --> 01:26:37,760
James Cridland: this Sam and
James's week? Where am I going?

1404
01:26:39,380 --> 01:26:44,560
Adam and James's week? So yeah,
so I'm going to well, so some of

1405
01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:49,240
the ones that I'm looking
forward to podcast day, which is

1406
01:26:49,300 --> 01:26:53,260
podcast Asia, which is happening
in Kuala Lumpur in two weeks, we

1407
01:26:53,260 --> 01:26:58,180
should be really good, which is
a whole day of that. And the

1408
01:26:58,180 --> 01:27:01,620
weirdest one that I'm looking
forward to is it's a Pacific

1409
01:27:01,620 --> 01:27:06,180
island called new way, and this
isn't spelled confirmed. Is

1410
01:27:06,180 --> 01:27:08,580
Adam Curry: that one of those, I
U, E? Is that one of those that

1411
01:27:08,580 --> 01:27:14,700
we blew up in World War Two,
still nuclear? Either you

1412
01:27:14,700 --> 01:27:19,080
James Cridland: did or we did,
but, yeah, but anyway, and so,

1413
01:27:19,140 --> 01:27:22,580
yeah. And so there's a big media
conference there. I say it's a

1414
01:27:22,580 --> 01:27:26,960
big media conference. The the
island is tiny. It has 1700

1415
01:27:27,260 --> 01:27:30,260
people who live there. Wow. And
I've said, and I've said, Look,

1416
01:27:30,260 --> 01:27:35,360
I I'll come, but I've got a day
job to do, so I need Internet

1417
01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:37,880
access. But if the Internet
access is good, then I'll go.

1418
01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:40,300
Turns out that the Internet
access is better than the home

1419
01:27:40,300 --> 01:27:45,340
because, of course, it is and
Yeah, except they say there is

1420
01:27:45,340 --> 01:27:47,740
one flight in and out a

1421
01:27:47,740 --> 01:27:50,980
Adam Curry: week. Oh, don't miss
it. Don't miss it.

1422
01:27:52,180 --> 01:27:55,000
James Cridland: We're gonna be
stuck on an island in the middle

1423
01:27:55,000 --> 01:27:58,720
of the Pacific for a week. You
know, that's gonna be fun. I

1424
01:27:58,720 --> 01:28:01,080
Adam Curry: have an unfortunate
I have no need for one. But that

1425
01:28:01,080 --> 01:28:05,700
Starlink mini man, that thing is
pretty amazing. Oh yeah, that

1426
01:28:05,700 --> 01:28:09,720
looks good. I mean, I even
heard, although there were some

1427
01:28:09,780 --> 01:28:15,240
I'll say it glitches. But Todd
and Rob were on his his regular

1428
01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:15,960
Starlink, it

1429
01:28:16,080 --> 01:28:16,860
Unknown: did pretty well.

1430
01:28:16,919 --> 01:28:20,539
Adam Curry: I was surprised the
low latency. I mean, I've always

1431
01:28:20,539 --> 01:28:23,239
been quite worried about the
latency. You know, these things

1432
01:28:23,239 --> 01:28:26,239
aren't actually in space. I've
seen them fly over my house.

1433
01:28:26,839 --> 01:28:30,319
It's the weirdest thing. You see
this line of lights just flying

1434
01:28:30,319 --> 01:28:33,259
on. They don't look like they're
very high up. But I'm sure

1435
01:28:33,259 --> 01:28:34,759
that's just perception. But

1436
01:28:35,240 --> 01:28:37,940
Dave Jones: I mean, could that
be an add on to the curry one

1437
01:28:37,940 --> 01:28:38,840
starter? Yes, and

1438
01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:42,760
Adam Curry: you get Yes. James
Islanders, when I send you the

1439
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:48,520
promo package with your gold
plated microphone, yes and and

1440
01:28:48,520 --> 01:28:51,400
your pod mobile and your three
month three subscription to

1441
01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:56,500
hosting along with a Starlink
Mini, there you go. That's it.

1442
01:28:57,520 --> 01:29:00,040
Add on packs, Buy and buy now,
all stocks

1443
01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:02,100
James Cridland: last, yes,
exactly. That's what we need.

1444
01:29:02,160 --> 01:29:05,040
That's what we know. We do need
to send me a press release.

1445
01:29:07,500 --> 01:29:08,820
Yeah, okay,

1446
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:10,860
Adam Curry: I'll send you, I'll
make, I'll send you a press

1447
01:29:10,860 --> 01:29:14,220
release. Here's your press
release. Take a gold microphone.

1448
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:17,880
Are you still using that, that
light LIDAR microphone?

1449
01:29:18,480 --> 01:29:21,860
James Cridland: Yes, I'm using a
when I'm at home, not, not here?

1450
01:29:21,920 --> 01:29:22,280
No,

1451
01:29:23,359 --> 01:29:24,199
Adam Curry: no,

1452
01:29:24,620 --> 01:29:28,040
James Cridland: it's a thing. I
forget the brand, the brand

1453
01:29:28,040 --> 01:29:32,000
name, but it's got a it's got a
laser inside it, laser inside

1454
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:35,540
it. And when you so when you
lean, when you're close to it,

1455
01:29:36,380 --> 01:29:43,000
it changes the sound to when
you're further away. So

1456
01:29:43,000 --> 01:29:47,440
Adam Curry: it's the what's the
name of it? The LeWitt is a

1457
01:29:47,440 --> 01:29:49,180
LeWitt, isn't it blue?
Absolutely

1458
01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:50,020
Dave Jones: correct.

1459
01:29:50,020 --> 01:29:52,420
James Cridland: Absolutely
correct. So you like that. I

1460
01:29:52,420 --> 01:29:55,360
used to use annoyment A long,
long time ago. One of you know,

1461
01:29:55,360 --> 01:29:58,480
one of the reasons why I like it
is that it's a side address,

1462
01:29:58,480 --> 01:30:02,100
mic, not a and. Dress my mic,

1463
01:30:04,020 --> 01:30:07,440
Adam Curry: I got a spitter. You
like? You like the side address,

1464
01:30:07,500 --> 01:30:08,160
right? Huh?

1465
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:12,300
James Cridland: Only because I
do quite a lot of video talking

1466
01:30:12,300 --> 01:30:16,680
to people, and side address mics
mean that you can that your face

1467
01:30:16,680 --> 01:30:20,180
can be seen, whereas any dress
Mike's is just a little bit it's

1468
01:30:20,180 --> 01:30:21,680
a little bit harder. You're like
tonight,

1469
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:24,020
Adam Curry: it's not you like
the curry valve mic. We're going

1470
01:30:24,020 --> 01:30:26,600
to come up with a valve mic. Oh
yeah.

1471
01:30:27,500 --> 01:30:29,960
James Cridland: Well, that'll
that. That'll work in carry on

1472
01:30:29,960 --> 01:30:30,740
luggage, won't it?

1473
01:30:32,420 --> 01:30:35,060
Dave Jones: What's a valve mic?
Valve inside it.

1474
01:30:35,420 --> 01:30:37,520
Adam Curry: James, explain what
a valve mic is.

1475
01:30:38,360 --> 01:30:42,160
James Cridland: Oh, wow. I am, I
am so not up with with Mike

1476
01:30:42,160 --> 01:30:46,060
technology, but it's the valve
made of glass. Is that? Is that?

1477
01:30:46,060 --> 01:30:46,360
How?

1478
01:30:47,380 --> 01:30:51,100
Adam Curry: Usually gold,
really? Yeah, I think it's made

1479
01:30:51,100 --> 01:30:55,060
of gold. So, yeah, yeah. Or
there's gold in the valve. I

1480
01:30:55,060 --> 01:30:58,960
believe it's a, it's a premium,
premium product.

1481
01:31:01,420 --> 01:31:03,900
Dave Jones: This is the entire
Curry One lineup. Yes.

1482
01:31:03,900 --> 01:31:06,600
Adam Curry: I mean, I'd love to
do a ribbon microphone. I'd love

1483
01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:09,660
to do all kinds of stuff. I
mean, yeah, carbon, a carbon

1484
01:31:09,660 --> 01:31:12,360
micro carbon mic, yeah, well,
it'll have a little carbon

1485
01:31:12,360 --> 01:31:14,460
dioxide monitor on it, and it'll
just shut off

1486
01:31:17,399 --> 01:31:19,859
Dave Jones: when the level goes
high enough. They're all carbon

1487
01:31:19,859 --> 01:31:20,159
Mike,

1488
01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:25,760
Adam Curry: so before we thank
some people, James as a radio

1489
01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:32,900
futurologist. Oh, here we go.
Well, I like the term. I have

1490
01:31:32,900 --> 01:31:35,780
some thoughts, but I'd like to,
I'd like to know your thinking

1491
01:31:35,780 --> 01:31:40,420
on specifically, where is radio
in all of this? Where is radio

1492
01:31:40,420 --> 01:31:48,040
in general, in the world of on
demand, media, podcasting. I

1493
01:31:48,040 --> 01:31:51,940
mean, obviously it's still a
huge business. I mean, just like

1494
01:31:51,940 --> 01:31:56,440
many cables not going away
tomorrow either. But where do

1495
01:31:56,440 --> 01:31:59,740
you think they stand, and what
is the industry? What are they

1496
01:31:59,740 --> 01:32:03,300
lost? Do they have ideas? Are
they moving in a certain

1497
01:32:03,300 --> 01:32:06,540
direction? What is your what's
your take? So

1498
01:32:06,540 --> 01:32:08,820
James Cridland: I think, I think
the difficulty for radio

1499
01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:12,660
broadcasters is that most of
radio is built out of other

1500
01:32:12,660 --> 01:32:15,840
people's content. It's built out
out of music. And

1501
01:32:17,460 --> 01:32:19,740
Adam Curry: music is that
really? Most radio is music,

1502
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:20,280
most,

1503
01:32:20,340 --> 01:32:23,180
James Cridland: most, most, most
radio is music. Is music these

1504
01:32:23,180 --> 01:32:27,320
days, and so therefore that that
is, that that is hard for them.

1505
01:32:27,620 --> 01:32:30,260
What I see in different in
different markets and different

1506
01:32:30,260 --> 01:32:37,880
podcasting markets is you can
really see how, how advanced a

1507
01:32:37,880 --> 01:32:41,260
podcasting market is by how
much. And this is going to sound

1508
01:32:41,260 --> 01:32:44,380
very negative, but it really
isn't meant to be how much

1509
01:32:44,380 --> 01:32:49,780
reheated radio is at the top of
the charts in each country. Like

1510
01:32:49,780 --> 01:32:55,720
the term, if there's loads of
reheated radio shows, then the

1511
01:32:55,720 --> 01:32:59,020
podcast market isn't really
very, you know, very big. It's

1512
01:32:59,020 --> 01:33:02,340
not making its own stuff. And
the fewer reheated radio shows,

1513
01:33:02,400 --> 01:33:07,020
the better. I think that radio
companies have a problem trying

1514
01:33:07,020 --> 01:33:11,400
to understand how to monetize
podcasting, because it's very

1515
01:33:11,400 --> 01:33:16,440
different to monetizing radio.
And so I think that there's a

1516
01:33:16,440 --> 01:33:20,360
lot of people that don't fully
understand that side. And and

1517
01:33:20,360 --> 01:33:22,700
frankly, you know, if you're a
program director of a radio

1518
01:33:22,700 --> 01:33:26,300
station, you are incentivized on
the, you know, what I would have

1519
01:33:26,300 --> 01:33:29,000
called the Arbitron figures. It
hasn't been Arbitron for many

1520
01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:33,020
years, but you know, the radio
ratings figures. And, you know,

1521
01:33:33,020 --> 01:33:36,320
and that's what you're you're
incentivized on. And so seeing

1522
01:33:36,320 --> 01:33:39,500
lots of podcast downloads or
seeing lots of online streams,

1523
01:33:39,500 --> 01:33:43,120
well, that's cute, but I'm, I'm,
I'm incentivized on the amount

1524
01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:47,260
of people tuning in on am and
FM. And I just don't think that

1525
01:33:47,260 --> 01:33:50,920
that's where the future of the
future of radio, very much, is a

1526
01:33:50,920 --> 01:33:54,880
multi platform future. It's
people consuming that content in

1527
01:33:54,880 --> 01:33:58,960
all different ways. And that
might be online, it might be,

1528
01:33:59,140 --> 01:34:02,340
might still be through AMFM or
other ways of broadcasting

1529
01:34:02,340 --> 01:34:06,840
radio, but it's, it's, it's a
majority. It's loads of

1530
01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:09,300
different ways, and I think
that's the big difference that

1531
01:34:09,300 --> 01:34:12,300
some of the industry still
hasn't fully understood. So

1532
01:34:12,840 --> 01:34:16,500
Adam Curry: try this on for
size. My feeling in podcasting

1533
01:34:16,500 --> 01:34:20,780
right now is we are saturated
with, you know, people going

1534
01:34:20,780 --> 01:34:26,720
big, growing the show, doing you
know, being appealing to a wide

1535
01:34:26,720 --> 01:34:31,160
audience all over the world, as
many as possible. What I think,

1536
01:34:31,160 --> 01:34:35,180
what I see radio has left us is
this, Why, certainly in the

1537
01:34:35,180 --> 01:34:40,540
United States, is this gaping
hole of local content. I mean,

1538
01:34:40,540 --> 01:34:44,620
it's just not there anymore, and
it's not profitable. I think

1539
01:34:44,980 --> 01:34:49,360
Facebook has taken a lot of
local advertising away. Yelp,

1540
01:34:49,540 --> 01:34:52,300
you know, all these types of
places where people search and

1541
01:34:52,300 --> 01:34:55,180
want to find something in a
certain geographical location.

1542
01:34:55,540 --> 01:35:00,240
To me, it feels like there's
such a and this is really. More

1543
01:35:00,240 --> 01:35:05,760
value for value, possibly as a
business model, but maybe not. I

1544
01:35:05,760 --> 01:35:09,660
mean, if you can grow an
audience, that is, you know, for

1545
01:35:09,660 --> 01:35:13,320
Austin, let's say, and it's just
Austin. I remember when we had

1546
01:35:13,320 --> 01:35:17,340
the snowpocalypse, there was
only one radio set, one morning

1547
01:35:17,340 --> 01:35:20,660
show, and it was kind of the
hokey, you know, morning zoo

1548
01:35:20,660 --> 01:35:25,580
type dudes who who were still on
the air. NPR was playing repeats

1549
01:35:25,580 --> 01:35:27,140
of fresh air, you know, no one.

1550
01:35:27,140 --> 01:35:29,540
James Cridland: Oh, yeah. I
mean, it's ridiculous. Yeah, I

1551
01:35:29,540 --> 01:35:33,680
did something recently about
Trump's assassination and how

1552
01:35:33,680 --> 01:35:38,240
US, US radio dealt with it. And
the answer is, it didn't. It was

1553
01:35:38,240 --> 01:35:43,480
Erin because it was because it
was 20 past six in the evening,

1554
01:35:43,540 --> 01:35:46,780
yeah, on a Saturday, and
virtually everybody was in

1555
01:35:46,780 --> 01:35:50,380
automations and that, and that
is not, is not a thing. But I

1556
01:35:50,440 --> 01:35:53,680
completely agree. In terms of
local stuff, there's a friend of

1557
01:35:53,680 --> 01:35:58,900
mine that runs a radio station
in a in a small town called

1558
01:35:58,900 --> 01:36:04,740
Shaftesbury in Dorset in the UK,
and it's a radio station called

1559
01:36:04,740 --> 01:36:08,340
Alfred, and there's a website
for it. This is alfred.com

1560
01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:15,480
because presumably alfred.com
wasn't available and and what he

1561
01:36:15,480 --> 01:36:19,260
does, and I think that this is
really interesting, is he makes

1562
01:36:19,320 --> 01:36:25,700
a half hour podcast every day.
It's made with volunteers. So

1563
01:36:25,700 --> 01:36:28,880
there is a bunch of different
volunteers sending him audio,

1564
01:36:28,880 --> 01:36:34,160
which he then puts together as a
half hour show every single day.

1565
01:36:34,160 --> 01:36:38,000
It's full of local news. That's
all it is interesting, just

1566
01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:41,620
local news. And then by and so
we started doing this prior to

1567
01:36:41,620 --> 01:36:44,860
the pandemic, and then he won a
community radio license. And

1568
01:36:44,860 --> 01:36:49,000
what the community radio license
is, he's, he's there on, on, on

1569
01:36:49,000 --> 01:36:55,180
the FM, and it is that half hour
podcast basically repeated quite

1570
01:36:55,180 --> 01:36:57,100
a lot of times. Low power. Is

1571
01:36:57,099 --> 01:36:59,139
Adam Curry: that low power? FM,
yeah.

1572
01:36:59,200 --> 01:37:02,460
James Cridland: I mean, I mean
it covers his. It covers the the

1573
01:37:02,460 --> 01:37:07,620
town of 10,000 people, yeah, and
it and not much further. And so

1574
01:37:07,620 --> 01:37:10,860
that that is his. It's a
community radio license in the

1575
01:37:10,860 --> 01:37:15,060
UK, and that, and that is, is
his thing, and it is been

1576
01:37:15,420 --> 01:37:19,320
tremendously successful in terms
of audience, like loads of

1577
01:37:19,320 --> 01:37:22,580
people. You know, he'll go into
the pub and he'll sit quietly

1578
01:37:22,580 --> 01:37:25,160
and have a beer, and there will
be other people in the pub

1579
01:37:25,400 --> 01:37:28,640
talking about what they heard on
Alfred this morning. Nice. It's

1580
01:37:28,640 --> 01:37:32,900
the most amazing thing. And, you
know, and everybody else doing

1581
01:37:32,900 --> 01:37:36,620
it for free, he pays himself a
very small No, in fact, I don't,

1582
01:37:36,620 --> 01:37:40,600
I don't think he pays himself a
salary either, but, but he's

1583
01:37:40,600 --> 01:37:44,020
managed to get a few free drinks
grants from a few grants from

1584
01:37:44,020 --> 01:37:48,220
businesses and that sort of,
well, yeah, exactly. And I do

1585
01:37:48,220 --> 01:37:52,060
think that that is I'm surprised
that there aren't more of those.

1586
01:37:52,060 --> 01:37:54,100
In terms of podcasting.

1587
01:37:54,400 --> 01:37:57,640
Adam Curry: You know, if I was,
if I was a big brand, if I was

1588
01:37:57,640 --> 01:38:01,440
like Gillette, I'll just pull
something. I would be creating

1589
01:38:01,440 --> 01:38:06,480
the Gillette Podcast Network.
And I would fund all, all of

1590
01:38:06,480 --> 01:38:10,500
these little podcasts all across
the country, the world, whatever

1591
01:38:10,500 --> 01:38:13,860
you want, and pay them, you
know, just pay them some money

1592
01:38:14,280 --> 01:38:17,340
now, enough to keep it going.
You know, no one has to be a

1593
01:38:17,340 --> 01:38:21,200
millionaire. And I would make it
the Gillette podcast network

1594
01:38:22,340 --> 01:38:24,620
Dave Jones: like the Gillette
cattle Cavalcade of Sports,

1595
01:38:24,620 --> 01:38:25,100
that's right,

1596
01:38:26,120 --> 01:38:28,100
James Cridland: yeah? Because,
because, you know, most of

1597
01:38:28,100 --> 01:38:32,720
these, I think the radio forgets
that a typical American radio

1598
01:38:32,720 --> 01:38:37,340
listener listens to, I think
it's 13 hours of radio a week

1599
01:38:37,460 --> 01:38:42,220
that is all, yeah, so filling 24
hours a day with new and

1600
01:38:42,220 --> 01:38:45,220
interesting programming is just
a waste of time. It is. You

1601
01:38:45,220 --> 01:38:48,280
should be, you should be making
some amazing programming and

1602
01:38:48,280 --> 01:38:51,460
then broadcasting it as much as
you can, as many times as you

1603
01:38:51,460 --> 01:38:56,500
can. And that is completely the
other way of how a radio a radio

1604
01:38:56,500 --> 01:39:00,600
company works, working.

1605
01:39:01,020 --> 01:39:03,180
Dave Jones: Didn't try that in
the local market. I mean, I

1606
01:39:03,180 --> 01:39:07,680
don't, did it not did did it
fail financially? Or did he

1607
01:39:07,680 --> 01:39:11,520
just, was it covid That hurt his
business?

1608
01:39:11,700 --> 01:39:12,900
James Cridland: Well? I mean,
that, you know, it's a

1609
01:39:12,900 --> 01:39:15,720
conversation for Sam, but my
understanding is that there was

1610
01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:19,320
a, there was a lot more
programming on that, on that

1611
01:39:19,320 --> 01:39:23,600
station. There was a lot more,
you know, different, different

1612
01:39:23,600 --> 01:39:26,720
stuff on there and that. And
that's very different to, you

1613
01:39:26,720 --> 01:39:30,440
know what Alfred, or there's
another radio station in a

1614
01:39:30,440 --> 01:39:33,380
little place called Petersfield,
called shine, and that does much

1615
01:39:33,380 --> 01:39:37,400
the same thing. Lots of
volunteers making audio, sending

1616
01:39:37,400 --> 01:39:40,400
it in, and that being compiled.
I think that's a really

1617
01:39:40,460 --> 01:39:43,720
interesting, very good, really
good model. Yeah, I

1618
01:39:43,720 --> 01:39:45,580
Dave Jones: see, I see the
difference there now, yeah.

1619
01:39:46,420 --> 01:39:46,720
Thanks

1620
01:39:46,720 --> 01:39:48,700
Adam Curry: to people who are
boosting in throughout the show.

1621
01:39:48,880 --> 01:39:52,180
James, of course, is in the
split, so we send a percentage

1622
01:39:52,180 --> 01:39:56,140
off to him. Thank you. Short of
Well, thank you for coming.

1623
01:39:56,320 --> 01:40:00,240
Short Row of ducks, 22 to 22
from salty crayon day. If he

1624
01:40:00,240 --> 01:40:05,220
says, was it Dez Dickerson from
Zebedee, negative, negative, not

1625
01:40:05,220 --> 01:40:09,720
Dez. All right, okay, not Dez.
All right, we'll keep going. Try

1626
01:40:10,020 --> 01:40:14,460
Martin lindisco, 2112 he boosted
for Chris wenski, he says, banjo

1627
01:40:14,460 --> 01:40:18,600
music. Rush boosts from Martin
Linda Coke, very nice. Once told

1628
01:40:18,600 --> 01:40:21,860
Kyle also boosted for Chris
wenski, always love a good

1629
01:40:21,860 --> 01:40:25,280
banjo. Chris and sir. TJ, the
raffle should jam together. I'm

1630
01:40:25,280 --> 01:40:28,460
sure they will. I'm going to be
on the the doorful verse

1631
01:40:28,700 --> 01:40:31,880
beginning of September. I'm
looking forward to that. Sam

1632
01:40:31,880 --> 01:40:36,860
Santa Surprise, a whole bunch of
boosts, 500 Dave understands we

1633
01:40:36,860 --> 01:40:40,040
need to extend the AP verbs like
we did with podcast namespace.

1634
01:40:40,040 --> 01:40:42,340
Just because Apple doesn't
didn't support chapters, we

1635
01:40:42,340 --> 01:40:45,520
didn't stop adding super
chapters or cloud chapters or

1636
01:40:45,520 --> 01:40:49,000
chapters, uh, equally, because
Mastodon doesn't support the

1637
01:40:49,000 --> 01:40:51,460
verb, doesn't mean we shouldn't
extend the AP namespace. I guess

1638
01:40:51,460 --> 01:40:54,640
we'll have to do it first with
true fans, if you know what I

1639
01:40:54,640 --> 01:40:58,900
mean. Hey, take the take the
arrows. Yes, right. 1000 stats

1640
01:40:58,900 --> 01:41:02,640
from OYSTEIN Berga. Great song.
Heard it on podcasting 2.0 that

1641
01:41:02,640 --> 01:41:06,600
is obviously boosting for Chris
wensky, boistine Berger, by the

1642
01:41:06,600 --> 01:41:09,960
way, also has a couple of songs
in the valley verse which are

1643
01:41:09,960 --> 01:41:13,500
well worth listening to. D's
last 123, ITM from the

1644
01:41:13,500 --> 01:41:17,940
podcasting 2.0 community. Saying
hi there to the artists. 1000

1645
01:41:17,940 --> 01:41:25,460
SATs from Sam James gets verbs
to use as filters, okay, and

1646
01:41:25,460 --> 01:41:30,140
then he also sends a link
another 1000 SATs promoting the

1647
01:41:30,140 --> 01:41:36,380
activity. Pub browser from
Spurlock browser dot. Pub 777

1648
01:41:37,040 --> 01:41:40,600
from Sam we will allow you to
follow your true fan social or

1649
01:41:40,600 --> 01:41:43,300
publish to another AP account.
You just need to change in the

1650
01:41:43,300 --> 01:41:47,080
settings our did we are trying
to reach the 99% of people who

1651
01:41:47,080 --> 01:41:49,360
don't have an AP account.
Gotcha. Well, you need the

1652
01:41:49,360 --> 01:41:55,600
influencers and wow, my dog is
going crazy. Is your dog going

1653
01:41:55,600 --> 01:41:57,040
is it your dog or my dog? No,
it's

1654
01:41:57,039 --> 01:41:58,479
Dave Jones: not my dog. It's
James's dog. Does

1655
01:41:58,480 --> 01:42:01,740
Adam Curry: your dog bite?
Sorry. Throw back to the Pink

1656
01:42:01,740 --> 01:42:06,420
Panther. No one left. 333 from
salty crayon. He says it should

1657
01:42:06,420 --> 01:42:10,380
be called fart circle. 3000 what
was that? What we talked Okay,

1658
01:42:10,380 --> 01:42:14,100
whatever it is, they like the
name, great name. 2222 from

1659
01:42:14,100 --> 01:42:17,400
salty if you don't have noser to
begin with, the app is useless.

1660
01:42:17,700 --> 01:42:20,900
Only basic feature that is left
is boost a show you already

1661
01:42:20,900 --> 01:42:23,420
follow. Can't edit your own
profile. It's no longer

1662
01:42:23,420 --> 01:42:26,060
fountain. It's a nostr client.
Nostr is showing links to

1663
01:42:26,060 --> 01:42:30,140
Spotify links which are not V
for V music. There's work to be

1664
01:42:30,140 --> 01:42:35,360
done. That's that's clear. Once
told Kyle, 7777 howdy Adam and

1665
01:42:35,360 --> 01:42:37,880
Dave from the Valley of the
Dinos in Glen Rose, Texas.

1666
01:42:37,880 --> 01:42:40,840
Hello, Glen Rose. Looking
forward to when I have to move

1667
01:42:40,840 --> 01:42:44,800
my studio into a 133 degree
greenhouse during the Texas

1668
01:42:44,800 --> 01:42:46,360
summer to save the planet.

1669
01:42:46,839 --> 01:42:49,719
Dave Jones: Wondering, get out
of there. You're kidding. Your

1670
01:42:49,719 --> 01:42:50,799
interviews are gonna be bad.

1671
01:42:50,860 --> 01:42:53,500
Adam Curry: I wonder, wondering,
how much AI washing was it

1672
01:42:53,500 --> 01:42:56,080
Podcast Movement this year? Keep
riding the podcasting 2.0

1673
01:42:56,620 --> 01:42:59,980
lightning. Well, that's a
question for James. How much AI

1674
01:43:00,040 --> 01:43:03,780
did everyone talk about it? I
know James. Report, yes. Report,

1675
01:43:03,780 --> 01:43:04,020
James,

1676
01:43:04,920 --> 01:43:07,620
James Cridland: there was an
awful lot of AI talks about, but

1677
01:43:07,620 --> 01:43:13,140
I think actually the AI, I think
AI is cooling off now. I think

1678
01:43:13,140 --> 01:43:15,780
people are realizing that it's
not necessarily a good thing.

1679
01:43:16,440 --> 01:43:21,020
And certainly AI back in March,
podcast, moving evolutions, so

1680
01:43:21,020 --> 01:43:24,860
so much more talking about about
AI, and I think now we're kind

1681
01:43:24,860 --> 01:43:28,040
of understanding that it's not
necessarily the be all, the be

1682
01:43:28,040 --> 01:43:31,220
all and end all. One of the
things that a lot of people were

1683
01:43:31,220 --> 01:43:36,560
talking about was using AI to
translate using cloned voices of

1684
01:43:36,560 --> 01:43:41,380
yourself, yeah, but translating
into different languages, which

1685
01:43:41,860 --> 01:43:44,020
works for certain things and
doesn't work for other things.

1686
01:43:44,020 --> 01:43:48,940
It would be awful for this show,
but for a kind of, kind of a

1687
01:43:48,940 --> 01:43:51,760
news show, it would, it will. It
will work quite nicely. I think,

1688
01:43:51,820 --> 01:43:52,300
well,

1689
01:43:53,020 --> 01:43:56,620
Adam Curry: I like humans. I can
hear humans. I agree. I like, I

1690
01:43:56,620 --> 01:43:59,800
agree. I like. I like the
imperfections. I like the

1691
01:43:59,800 --> 01:44:04,440
stuttering. I like everything.
You know, it makes human. It's

1692
01:44:04,440 --> 01:44:07,740
humanity. So I don't, I don't
think it'll ever really catch

1693
01:44:07,740 --> 01:44:11,700
on. We've had rendered voices
for many, many years, and they

1694
01:44:11,700 --> 01:44:14,700
get a little bit better,
although Richard grieser has

1695
01:44:14,700 --> 01:44:17,340
songs in the value verse,
they're actually kind of banging

1696
01:44:17,340 --> 01:44:22,760
hits. But then I still hear that
kind of auto tune, type voice,

1697
01:44:22,760 --> 01:44:24,980
and it always bugs me. Always
bugs Yeah,

1698
01:44:25,519 --> 01:44:29,899
Dave Jones: on that note, James.
James, you I don't know what you

1699
01:44:29,899 --> 01:44:33,859
write. You write PHP. What IDE
do you use?

1700
01:44:35,600 --> 01:44:36,440
James Cridland: Visual Studio?

1701
01:44:37,700 --> 01:44:42,040
Dave Jones: You need to try out
PHP storm. It the most recent

1702
01:44:42,040 --> 01:44:46,660
version of PHP storm will blow
your mind. I don't know what

1703
01:44:46,660 --> 01:44:50,080
it's doing, because it doesn't
seem like it's doing large

1704
01:44:50,080 --> 01:44:54,880
language model, because I see no
signs anywhere on my machine of

1705
01:44:54,880 --> 01:44:58,600
a large language model being
being used. I mean, there's no

1706
01:44:58,600 --> 01:45:02,700
there's no heavy processing.
There was no long install time.

1707
01:45:03,060 --> 01:45:07,500
I don't know what voodoo or
magic this thing is using, but

1708
01:45:07,500 --> 01:45:11,040
it is blowing my mind. I mean, I
will type things and it will

1709
01:45:11,340 --> 01:45:16,380
just auto complete stuff. And
I'm like, How did you know? I

1710
01:45:16,380 --> 01:45:19,440
just don't understand how it's
so smart. You know, seriously,

1711
01:45:19,440 --> 01:45:20,120
give it a try. It

1712
01:45:20,119 --> 01:45:22,219
Adam Curry: was interesting.
It's interesting. You bring that

1713
01:45:22,219 --> 01:45:28,639
up. I listened to Dave Weiner's
podcast. You know, for nostalgic

1714
01:45:28,639 --> 01:45:31,879
reasons, I've always enjoyed
listening to his morning coffee

1715
01:45:31,879 --> 01:45:35,599
notes. And he said something
very similar. He said that his

1716
01:45:35,599 --> 01:45:39,439
and he's been developing for 30
years, that his development has

1717
01:45:39,439 --> 01:45:44,799
gone so as exceeded with all of
these, well, he uses chat GPT.

1718
01:45:44,799 --> 01:45:48,219
It's like he's in love with chat
GPT. Should get a room with chat

1719
01:45:48,219 --> 01:45:52,839
GPT. But he, he said the same
thing. It's like the the answers

1720
01:45:52,839 --> 01:45:56,799
that it comes up with, you can
describe a problem, and you say,

1721
01:45:56,799 --> 01:46:01,019
Okay, I need jQuery for this. I
don't know about jQuery. It'll

1722
01:46:01,019 --> 01:46:04,079
just spit out code that you
know, that is so good that he

1723
01:46:04,139 --> 01:46:08,399
hardly has to do anything with
it. I mean, I think that that

1724
01:46:08,399 --> 01:46:10,679
that may ultimately be the
killer app.

1725
01:46:11,760 --> 01:46:15,780
Dave Jones: The good thing about
about what JetBrains has done is

1726
01:46:15,780 --> 01:46:20,600
that I don't have to do
anything. I do nothing different

1727
01:46:20,600 --> 01:46:25,640
than what I've already done, and
it just somehow analyzes the

1728
01:46:25,640 --> 01:46:31,460
stuff, my existing code, and it
begins to write like what I do.

1729
01:46:31,580 --> 01:46:35,900
So, you know, I will go, I will
make, start to make a function

1730
01:46:36,320 --> 01:46:38,360
that looks it's sort of, you
know, there's a lot of

1731
01:46:38,360 --> 01:46:40,600
boilerplate stuff where you're
just writing the same things

1732
01:46:40,600 --> 01:46:44,320
over and over in various with
various permutations that are

1733
01:46:44,320 --> 01:46:47,860
small, and it's just kind of
tedious, and I'll write

1734
01:46:47,860 --> 01:46:52,060
something, and then I'll go to
write a couple of more methods

1735
01:46:52,060 --> 01:46:56,800
in a class, and it will just
automatically fill in a bunch of

1736
01:46:56,800 --> 01:47:00,600
this boilerplate. And it's
impressive. It is flat

1737
01:47:01,380 --> 01:47:04,140
Adam Curry: out, does this run
local, on your local machine, or

1738
01:47:04,140 --> 01:47:05,880
is it from the cloud? No,

1739
01:47:05,880 --> 01:47:11,940
Dave Jones: it's, it's a local
IDE, and this dedicated to PhD,

1740
01:47:11,940 --> 01:47:14,700
Adam Curry: and that's really
it. You know that that's, that's

1741
01:47:14,700 --> 01:47:19,200
where the investment is all
wrong, because I truly believe

1742
01:47:19,200 --> 01:47:25,700
in local llms or whatever you
whatever AI is doing. I mean, I

1743
01:47:25,700 --> 01:47:30,320
have, on my start nine, I've got
some some models that are open

1744
01:47:30,320 --> 01:47:33,800
source models, and I use it for
certain things. You know,

1745
01:47:33,860 --> 01:47:36,860
looking up, actually looking up
scripture, is really good

1746
01:47:36,860 --> 01:47:42,640
because it has it as in all the
versions of the Bible, but, you

1747
01:47:42,640 --> 01:47:44,860
know, that kind of stuff. It's
good, but it's local. You know,

1748
01:47:44,860 --> 01:47:48,340
I don't need to pay $20 a month
again.

1749
01:47:49,000 --> 01:47:54,280
James Cridland: Ai Pro is $100 a
year plus, plus you're also

1750
01:47:54,280 --> 01:47:57,940
spending another $100 a year on
the on the IDE. Well, that's

1751
01:47:57,939 --> 01:48:00,659
Dave Jones: probably worth thing
is, I didn't, I didn't pay for

1752
01:48:00,659 --> 01:48:04,619
it. When it asked me, When it
asked me, when I installed, when

1753
01:48:04,619 --> 01:48:08,099
I installed PHP storm, it asked
me, Do you want to use the AI

1754
01:48:08,399 --> 01:48:14,519
module? And I said, No. So this
is something else well. And I

1755
01:48:14,519 --> 01:48:16,979
already pay for I pay for
JetBrains annually, because I

1756
01:48:16,979 --> 01:48:20,959
just love I love it so much, and
so I'm already paying for it,

1757
01:48:20,959 --> 01:48:23,659
and then the new version just
dropped in some sort of, like,

1758
01:48:23,839 --> 01:48:27,799
you know, magic potion. Yeah,
yeah. Give it a

1759
01:48:29,120 --> 01:48:33,560
Adam Curry: shot. Let's see.
Then we have the 7777 from Sam.

1760
01:48:33,620 --> 01:48:36,260
True fans support the funding
tag. People just don't know how

1761
01:48:36,260 --> 01:48:38,900
to find true fans, because we
are only a progressive web app.

1762
01:48:38,900 --> 01:48:41,920
They look for apps in the flash
two App Store. Maybe Apple's new

1763
01:48:41,920 --> 01:48:49,480
PWA ish app will help people
find more PWA mad. I added that

1764
01:48:50,440 --> 01:48:55,240
D's last and I understand Sam
and and as Steve Jobs told me

1765
01:48:55,240 --> 01:49:01,740
himself, it was never the idea
his he wanted the iPod touch

1766
01:49:01,980 --> 01:49:07,020
with Wi Fi. He never wanted a he
was he, in fact, I remember when

1767
01:49:07,020 --> 01:49:11,100
I had my meeting, he was yelling
and mad like they effed up Wi

1768
01:49:11,100 --> 01:49:17,940
Fi. And so you had the right
idea. These last with 1000 SATs.

1769
01:49:17,940 --> 01:49:20,540
ITM happy casual Friday. Go
ahead and break out that

1770
01:49:20,540 --> 01:49:24,140
Hawaiian shirt if you'd like
chat after 3333 tune in live to

1771
01:49:24,140 --> 01:49:27,620
hear the latest news about
podcasting. 2.0 from noster

1772
01:49:27,620 --> 01:49:32,660
colon and pub 13, lots of end
pubs there exactly that

1773
01:49:33,380 --> 01:49:39,620
booberry, 17,776, big freedom
boost there, and has a link,

1774
01:49:39,620 --> 01:49:44,560
which I'm sure will show up in
some in some apps, or maybe a

1775
01:49:44,560 --> 01:49:47,800
Nasser. Check out one of the new
visual boost alerts for the

1776
01:49:47,800 --> 01:49:51,700
upcoming satellite skirmish
album, rust. There's three more

1777
01:49:51,700 --> 01:49:56,080
of these bad boys. I hopefully
be on a Sunday so I can promote

1778
01:49:56,080 --> 01:50:00,360
it on no agenda. Rove ducks from
Martin lindiskirch, 22 Mind to

1779
01:50:00,360 --> 01:50:03,300
Adam, please give the backstory
regarding James cridlins Bet

1780
01:50:03,480 --> 01:50:06,120
Apple podcasts and Android
phones. Well, we did that, I

1781
01:50:06,120 --> 01:50:11,100
think, and I believe, I believe,
I've hit the delimiter. Oh,

1782
01:50:11,100 --> 01:50:14,460
wait, there's some a new one
came in. We had a new dirty

1783
01:50:14,460 --> 01:50:20,600
Jersey whore no 7777 peachy
Hoddle was Zb was Zebedee was at

1784
01:50:20,600 --> 01:50:24,500
the vinyl lounge. Was that who
Dave talk with? PG? Huddle, is

1785
01:50:24,500 --> 01:50:27,200
it peachy huddle? Hi, we did it.

1786
01:50:27,200 --> 01:50:29,780
Dave Jones: But what's peachy
huddles email address? Is it

1787
01:50:31,940 --> 01:50:33,620
okay? Well, that's where the
emails go. That's

1788
01:50:33,620 --> 01:50:36,200
Adam Curry: the guest. Peachy
huddle. Shout out to peachy

1789
01:50:36,200 --> 01:50:39,380
huddle community. Come together.
Let's find her. Let's make a

1790
01:50:39,380 --> 01:50:43,960
love connection with Dave,
Ashley Jones and peach Lee

1791
01:50:43,960 --> 01:50:44,680
huddle.

1792
01:50:45,700 --> 01:50:47,740
Dave Jones: Peachy huddle is
everybody's getting my email.

1793
01:50:47,860 --> 01:50:50,320
That's my bounce, but it's
getting what

1794
01:50:50,320 --> 01:50:53,680
Adam Curry: you got on your
list. I'm sorry. Can I?

1795
01:50:53,740 --> 01:50:57,040
James Cridland: Can I just ask
two? Two of those said ITM, what

1796
01:50:57,040 --> 01:50:59,200
does ITM mean for the

1797
01:50:59,320 --> 01:51:01,800
Adam Curry: means in the
morning. That is a no agenda

1798
01:51:01,920 --> 01:51:05,580
moniker, which has been going
on, yes and, and if you really

1799
01:51:05,580 --> 01:51:12,660
want to know where that comes
from, hold on a second. That is

1800
01:51:12,660 --> 01:51:17,520
from a very here's the origins
clip. Oh, that's a little too

1801
01:51:17,520 --> 01:51:22,220
long. Think that's good. What if
I here we know what it means.

1802
01:51:22,220 --> 01:51:23,840
Here we go. Look at me. I'm
driving.

1803
01:51:23,900 --> 01:51:26,960
Unknown: I'm driving a real car.
I don't believe it. Well, I'd

1804
01:51:26,960 --> 01:51:29,900
say we need to put on some
tunes. Hey, welcome back to

1805
01:51:29,900 --> 01:51:36,260
weenie and the butt on 97.1 we
in the butt just like the grown

1806
01:51:36,260 --> 01:51:39,800
ups listen to and that was baby
by Justin Bieber featuring

1807
01:51:39,800 --> 01:51:43,000
Ludacris, which means it's time
to give away some Justin Bieber

1808
01:51:43,000 --> 01:51:46,960
tickets. Oh, that's right, but
our fifth caller, will we know

1809
01:51:46,960 --> 01:51:47,920
tickets? Okay,

1810
01:51:47,920 --> 01:51:50,260
Adam Curry: so in the longer
version, they keep saying, in

1811
01:51:50,260 --> 01:51:53,620
the morning, in the morning, in
the morning. So that was the

1812
01:51:53,620 --> 01:51:57,940
origin of in the morning. Yes,
we in the butt in the morning.

1813
01:51:58,360 --> 01:51:58,600
Or if

1814
01:51:59,859 --> 01:52:02,579
Dave Jones: you're here, it's a
itbr in the board,

1815
01:52:02,640 --> 01:52:05,580
Adam Curry: itbr, that's right,
in the boardroom. That's right,

1816
01:52:06,300 --> 01:52:08,580
Dave Jones: we do have some,
see, we've got some PayPals

1817
01:52:08,580 --> 01:52:13,680
here. Let me grab the PayPals.
Buzz sprout, $1,000

1818
01:52:19,320 --> 01:52:22,820
Adam Curry: Whoa, Impala. Thank
you boys at Buzzsprout. Not only

1819
01:52:22,820 --> 01:52:29,600
do you sponsor the pod news
weekly review, but power that's

1820
01:52:29,600 --> 01:52:33,980
right, podcasts, podcasting 2.0
powered today by Buzzsprout.

1821
01:52:33,980 --> 01:52:37,520
Thank you boys. That's really
appreciated. That's the big

1822
01:52:37,520 --> 01:52:37,820
deal.

1823
01:52:37,820 --> 01:52:42,040
Dave Jones: I thought I was, I
was conniving in the background.

1824
01:52:42,760 --> 01:52:46,600
Uh, since before, since an hour
before the show started, since

1825
01:52:46,720 --> 01:52:50,200
Tom is in town. Tom Rossi is in
town. He's in Birmingham today.

1826
01:52:50,320 --> 01:52:54,160
Oh, I almost got him to show up
to my house to be on the show

1827
01:52:54,520 --> 01:52:56,380
with James, but he's got,

1828
01:52:56,380 --> 01:52:59,380
Adam Curry: he's afraid of dogs.
He's afraid of dogs, yes.

1829
01:52:59,620 --> 01:53:03,420
Dave Jones: And she's like, how
big is your dog? Exactly. No,

1830
01:53:03,420 --> 01:53:07,020
but he, he got sidetracked into,
into having lunch with his

1831
01:53:07,020 --> 01:53:09,360
family. So he had to, you know,
he had to bail, please,

1832
01:53:09,360 --> 01:53:12,000
Adam Curry: family first, and
all that nonsense. Okay, yep,

1833
01:53:13,620 --> 01:53:16,020
Dave Jones: let's see. He still
may show up, though. We got to

1834
01:53:16,920 --> 01:53:20,780
see Tom, oh, here we go. Thomas,
Thomas Rademacher. I hope I'm

1835
01:53:20,780 --> 01:53:24,560
saying his name, Rademacher.
Rademachers, Thomas Rademacher.

1836
01:53:24,800 --> 01:53:28,100
They gave us $200 and there was
no note, but he did say, I love

1837
01:53:28,100 --> 01:53:30,980
you. Everything you and Adam are
doing. The board meeting is

1838
01:53:31,040 --> 01:53:32,240
always entertaining. Thank

1839
01:53:32,240 --> 01:53:33,080
Adam Curry: you. Thank you,
brother.

1840
01:53:36,320 --> 01:53:38,600
Dave Jones: Since it's
Rademacher, is that Dutch? Yes.

1841
01:53:39,620 --> 01:53:41,800
Thank you. You would it does
come in as strong as usual.

1842
01:53:41,800 --> 01:53:45,760
Yeah, you would expect it. And
we got, thank you, Thomas, we

1843
01:53:45,760 --> 01:53:49,780
got Daniel Hollingsworth, $50
Thank you. One office is nice,

1844
01:53:49,840 --> 01:53:53,680
he says, For a resume that gets
results, I've created a podcast

1845
01:53:53,680 --> 01:53:56,800
app called digilor. Thanks for
the inspiration and your work on

1846
01:53:56,800 --> 01:53:57,700
podcast index

1847
01:53:58,060 --> 01:54:00,780
Adam Curry: that is a crossover.
What?

1848
01:54:01,260 --> 01:54:02,400
Dave Jones: What do you mean?
Well,

1849
01:54:02,759 --> 01:54:04,739
Adam Curry: so something
interesting started happening

1850
01:54:04,739 --> 01:54:09,779
about two years ago, on no
agenda. As you know, we solicit

1851
01:54:09,779 --> 01:54:14,639
value for value, and if it's
$200 or above, you become an

1852
01:54:14,639 --> 01:54:17,579
Associate Executive Producer,
you get the credit. In fact, if

1853
01:54:17,579 --> 01:54:21,739
you go to imdb.com you can see
over 1000 people have opened up

1854
01:54:21,739 --> 01:54:25,639
IMDb accounts as producers of
the no agenda show. And if it's

1855
01:54:25,639 --> 01:54:30,319
$300 or above, then it's you're
an executive producer. And in

1856
01:54:30,319 --> 01:54:34,999
that case, we read your note.
And so Linda lupatkin showed up,

1857
01:54:34,999 --> 01:54:40,339
and she has an executive resume
service. And for two years,

1858
01:54:40,339 --> 01:54:45,219
every single show, twice a week,
she sends $200 and her tagline

1859
01:54:45,219 --> 01:54:48,939
is for a resume that get gets
results go to Image makers. Inc,

1860
01:54:48,939 --> 01:54:54,099
that's image makers. Inc, with a
k.com and talk to Linda Lou. And

1861
01:54:54,099 --> 01:54:57,099
it's people are sending in
jingles for her now, and it's

1862
01:54:57,099 --> 01:54:59,919
become the whole they're
donating on her behalf is.

1863
01:54:59,999 --> 01:55:03,179
Become this whole thing. And
apparently it's, it's worth it

1864
01:55:03,179 --> 01:55:06,419
to her, so, yeah, and so now
it's been crossed over here.

1865
01:55:07,019 --> 01:55:07,259
This

1866
01:55:07,260 --> 01:55:10,200
Dave Jones: is the best way to
do advertising. Is because

1867
01:55:10,560 --> 01:55:15,600
Daniel sent in, uh, $50 he got
advertising, and nobody had to

1868
01:55:15,600 --> 01:55:16,620
do any meetings.

1869
01:55:16,740 --> 01:55:20,360
Adam Curry: No meetings. That's,
that's the secret. No meetings.

1870
01:55:20,720 --> 01:55:23,480
There's none of this. Well, I
didn't like your read, you know,

1871
01:55:23,480 --> 01:55:25,640
wasn't quite exciting enough.
Can

1872
01:55:25,640 --> 01:55:28,340
Dave Jones: we jump on a zoom
call? Because make sure you

1873
01:55:28,340 --> 01:55:30,740
highlight this aspect of the
product. Did

1874
01:55:30,740 --> 01:55:33,680
Adam Curry: you get the product?
We want to make sure you try out

1875
01:55:33,680 --> 01:55:34,520
our product. Yes.

1876
01:55:34,760 --> 01:55:39,440
Dave Jones: We got some booster
grams. We've got Andrew Grumman.

1877
01:55:39,980 --> 01:55:41,980
It says grooving on a Friday
afternoon.

1878
01:55:43,359 --> 01:55:43,959
Adam Curry: 22

1879
01:55:44,620 --> 01:55:48,460
Dave Jones: Yep. 2222 get 11
111, from chimp. He says, I

1880
01:55:48,460 --> 01:55:51,940
heard it on podcasting 2.0 with
the pod sage and sometimes Adam.

1881
01:55:54,400 --> 01:55:58,120
So Brian of London, 11, 948, he
says, imagine the pitch from

1882
01:55:58,120 --> 01:56:01,920
Netflix and Amazon. We can show
your ad to our subscribers, only

1883
01:56:01,920 --> 01:56:04,680
the poor ones, though not the
big spenders who paid not to see

1884
01:56:04,680 --> 01:56:05,340
the ads. For me,

1885
01:56:07,020 --> 01:56:07,800
Unknown: excellent point,

1886
01:56:07,860 --> 01:56:10,980
Adam Curry: very good point,
very good point, only the poor

1887
01:56:10,980 --> 01:56:11,820
ones. Nice.

1888
01:56:13,439 --> 01:56:16,859
Dave Jones: See coming in with
hard truth. Ron, who we got

1889
01:56:16,859 --> 01:56:20,959
here. Gene bean, 2222 he says,
check this out. Apple podcast is

1890
01:56:20,959 --> 01:56:23,599
now available for Android and
everything else. Oh, he's

1891
01:56:23,659 --> 01:56:24,859
digging the nicest he

1892
01:56:24,860 --> 01:56:27,620
Adam Curry: is right now, poking
the bear. Man, poking the

1893
01:56:27,620 --> 01:56:30,740
Dave Jones: bear. Yes. Bill
Prague, from fountain through

1894
01:56:30,740 --> 01:56:35,240
fountain. He's 2000 sets, he
says. But Prague, it always the

1895
01:56:35,240 --> 01:56:38,660
hive. Guy, people who using hive
have the same problem explaining

1896
01:56:38,660 --> 01:56:42,400
this as more people get de
platformed and definanced, more

1897
01:56:42,400 --> 01:56:45,820
will understand. PS, not Brian.
He boosts like a champ. I am

1898
01:56:45,820 --> 01:56:51,220
cheap, yes. So that confusion is
cleared up. Is not Brian in

1899
01:56:51,520 --> 01:56:51,940
disguise?

1900
01:56:52,000 --> 01:56:52,540
Adam Curry: Good to know.

1901
01:56:52,600 --> 01:56:55,780
Dave Jones: Good to know. Do we
got any please get the back,

1902
01:56:55,780 --> 01:56:59,200
okay, yeah, we got that one. So
this is the delimiter. Blogger,

1903
01:56:59,200 --> 01:57:03,840
25,000 sets through fountain. He
says, howdy, Dave and Adam. Are

1904
01:57:03,840 --> 01:57:07,740
you tired of the same old, same
old in your daily cartoon fix?

1905
01:57:08,220 --> 01:57:11,820
Do your funny pages not tickle
your funny bone anymore? Fear

1906
01:57:11,820 --> 01:57:16,080
not dear listener, for we've got
the pan galactic gargle blaster

1907
01:57:16,080 --> 01:57:21,500
of cartoon entertainment. Just
visit www. Dot. CSB, dot. Lol,

1908
01:57:21,500 --> 01:57:23,780
exclamation point, yo. CSB, oh.

1909
01:57:23,780 --> 01:57:26,900
Adam Curry: He promoted himself
this time he did. Oh, that's

1910
01:57:26,960 --> 01:57:27,200
treat

1911
01:57:27,200 --> 01:57:29,360
Dave Jones: yourself. That's
cool. Yeah, we got some, uh, got

1912
01:57:29,360 --> 01:57:32,900
some monthly forget. Charles
current, $5 thank you. Charles,

1913
01:57:32,900 --> 01:57:38,000
guess Satan's lawyer from down
under $5 Jorge Hernandez $5

1914
01:57:38,660 --> 01:57:43,840
Michael Goggin, $5 Cohen gloss
Buck $5 Christopher reamer $10

1915
01:57:44,500 --> 01:57:48,820
James Sullivan $10 and Jordan
dunville $10 thank you all for

1916
01:57:48,820 --> 01:57:49,240
that group.

1917
01:57:49,240 --> 01:57:51,640
Adam Curry: Thank you all so
much. This is a value for value

1918
01:57:51,640 --> 01:57:56,380
project. It goes beyond this
podcast, although Dave and I are

1919
01:57:56,380 --> 01:57:58,600
always happy to just catch up
with each other, the only time

1920
01:57:58,600 --> 01:58:01,560
we talk really during the week
is on Fridays during the board

1921
01:58:01,560 --> 01:58:05,580
meeting. Podcast index dot
social is where you can if you

1922
01:58:05,580 --> 01:58:08,280
want to join, shoot me an email.
Adam@curry.com

1923
01:58:09,120 --> 01:58:12,420
dave@podcastindex.org and of
course, you can go to

1924
01:58:12,420 --> 01:58:15,420
podcastindex.org down at the
bottom, you see a big red donate

1925
01:58:15,420 --> 01:58:18,000
button. You hit that takes you
the PayPal page. You can support

1926
01:58:18,000 --> 01:58:21,320
us with your Fiat fund coupons.
We do like it, though, very

1927
01:58:21,320 --> 01:58:23,780
much. When you send us booster
grams through any of the modern

1928
01:58:23,780 --> 01:58:28,220
podcast apps at podcast apps.com
and all of the money goes into

1929
01:58:28,220 --> 01:58:31,400
the project keeps it running,
hopefully for a long, long, long

1930
01:58:31,400 --> 01:58:35,060
time, certainly with supporters
like you, you, you, you and you

1931
01:58:35,360 --> 01:58:38,300
and you and I see you over there
too. You. Thank you.

1932
01:58:39,979 --> 01:58:42,399
Dave Jones: I'm sure James
appreciates the the boosts in

1933
01:58:42,399 --> 01:58:45,639
his chattel, or wherever you
are, the Chateau Chantelle.

1934
01:58:46,480 --> 01:58:48,400
James Cridland: I will take a
photograph, and I'll find out

1935
01:58:48,400 --> 01:58:49,780
what they call it. Yes,

1936
01:58:49,780 --> 01:58:50,200
Dave Jones: please do

1937
01:58:50,620 --> 01:58:52,720
Adam Curry: James. Thank you so
much for being with us today. At

1938
01:58:52,720 --> 01:58:55,540
the end of what I'm sure was a
tiring trip, and you still have

1939
01:58:55,540 --> 01:58:58,480
a good what is it? 14 hours to
fly? You have a direct flight

1940
01:58:58,540 --> 01:58:58,900
or,

1941
01:58:59,139 --> 01:59:00,539
James Cridland: Oh, I've got
more than that. I've got, I've

1942
01:59:00,539 --> 01:59:04,019
got five hours to get to LAX,
and then another 14 hours. So,

1943
01:59:04,019 --> 01:59:07,739
yeah, so, but also thank you to
you too, as well. You know you

1944
01:59:07,739 --> 01:59:11,039
do a fantastic job. Not, not
enough people say that you both

1945
01:59:11,039 --> 01:59:14,699
do a fantastic job, especially
Dave, with all of the stuff that

1946
01:59:15,299 --> 01:59:18,959
I get to see, some of the emails
that you have to deal with. So,

1947
01:59:19,439 --> 01:59:20,659
so you both do a fan. Oh, is

1948
01:59:20,660 --> 01:59:25,160
Adam Curry: he? Is he on the
general email as well? The the I

1949
01:59:25,160 --> 01:59:27,260
can't add my podcast or refresh
it?

1950
01:59:27,260 --> 01:59:30,920
James Cridland: No, no. But I
always get the I always get CC

1951
01:59:30,920 --> 01:59:32,120
into some of these, they

1952
01:59:33,920 --> 01:59:36,560
Dave Jones: go through James.
See, they gripe at James first.

1953
01:59:37,520 --> 01:59:38,480
Yeah,

1954
01:59:40,040 --> 01:59:44,740
Adam Curry: we spend quite a bit
of time during our day answering

1955
01:59:44,800 --> 01:59:48,280
emails and refreshing feeds and
but, you know, it's a lot. It's

1956
01:59:48,280 --> 01:59:51,220
actually fun. What I like the
most is when people say, Wow,

1957
01:59:51,340 --> 01:59:55,840
thanks. They're really they're
really grateful. Like, oh, you

1958
01:59:55,840 --> 01:59:57,580
fixed it. Thank you so much.
Yes, I have

1959
01:59:57,760 --> 01:59:59,200
James Cridland: an actual
thought. There was an actual

1960
01:59:59,200 --> 02:00:01,560
human being. The End, yes.
Surprise,

1961
02:00:01,560 --> 02:00:04,320
Adam Curry: surprise, yeah,
James, as we like to do over at

1962
02:00:04,320 --> 02:00:07,080
the no agenda show, I want to
give you travel karma. So here

1963
02:00:07,080 --> 02:00:07,500
you go.

1964
02:00:07,620 --> 02:00:09,360
Unknown: You've got Thank you
karma.

1965
02:00:10,979 --> 02:00:13,319
Adam Curry: It's been it's been
known to help, it's been known

1966
02:00:13,319 --> 02:00:15,839
to help. It's been known to
help, hope. So thank you,

1967
02:00:15,839 --> 02:00:19,799
boardroom for being here in
spirit and in verb as you've

1968
02:00:19,799 --> 02:00:22,399
been chatting along with us.
Very much. Appreciate it. Thank

1969
02:00:22,399 --> 02:00:25,579
you everybody. Brother, Dave,
have yourself a great weekend.

1970
02:00:26,179 --> 02:00:29,419
You too, guys, both of you and
well, we'll see you all next

1971
02:00:29,419 --> 02:00:33,079
week. James, safe travels, thank
you all right, everybody that's

1972
02:00:33,199 --> 02:00:37,699
podcasting 2.0 it's a wrap.
We'll be back next Friday with

1973
02:00:37,699 --> 02:00:41,499
another edition of the podcast
in 2.0 podcast. See you then.

1974
02:00:57,820 --> 02:01:02,400
Unknown: You have been listening
to podcasting 2.0 visit podcast

1975
02:01:02,400 --> 02:01:06,720
index.org for more information.
Go podcasting.

1976
02:01:08,100 --> 02:01:09,420
Adam Curry: I can debug stuff.
I.