1 00:00:00,780 --> 00:00:06,330 Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 For April 19 2024, episode 176 angel 2 00:00:06,330 --> 00:00:12,960 number oh hello everybody. Welcome to the board meeting for 3 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:18,210 podcasting. 2.0 I think this is happening day. I gotta count the 4 00:00:18,210 --> 00:00:21,390 blocks to make sure that means it can be super special 5 00:00:21,390 --> 00:00:23,850 everything you want to know about podcasts, the future of 6 00:00:23,850 --> 00:00:27,750 podcasts and podcasting, what was what is and will always be 7 00:00:27,900 --> 00:00:31,290 podcasting 2.0 The only boardroom that will never be 8 00:00:31,290 --> 00:00:34,200 available on video. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the 9 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,840 Texas Hill Country and in Alabama the man with the plan if 10 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,780 he can't do it, no one can say hello to my friend on the other 11 00:00:39,780 --> 00:00:43,470 end of one building. Mr. Day, Joe's 12 00:00:44,610 --> 00:00:46,320 Dave Jones: podcasting, 2.0 13 00:00:47,850 --> 00:00:51,420 Adam Curry: podcasting I'm sorry. I mean, I'm excited. You 14 00:00:51,420 --> 00:00:58,500 know, it's Friday so havening was supposed to happen on 420 15 00:00:59,100 --> 00:01:02,730 And I think the blocks move too fast and so it's I guess 16 00:01:02,730 --> 00:01:05,910 happening tonight. The Bitcoin happening? 17 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,390 Dave Jones: Yeah, earlier so that it was like 12 hours. 18 00:01:09,750 --> 00:01:10,710 Something approx 19 00:01:10,709 --> 00:01:14,129 Adam Curry: Okay, yeah, that will probably be just before 11 20 00:01:14,129 --> 00:01:16,019 o'clock. block 21 00:01:16,050 --> 00:01:19,980 Dave Jones: number ad something eight 144,000 or something like 22 00:01:19,980 --> 00:01:26,370 that. 808 40 840,848 40,000 Fair warning up front. 23 00:01:26,910 --> 00:01:31,800 Adam Curry: I just I just got a call from the you know, this is 24 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:37,320 an automated message from the power company. And they have an 25 00:01:37,320 --> 00:01:40,860 emergency. Yeah, they have an emergency scheduled outage today 26 00:01:40,860 --> 00:01:42,810 at one o'clock. Now. 27 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,720 Dave Jones: I love I love an emergency scheduled outage. 28 00:01:46,470 --> 00:01:48,300 Adam Curry: Let me read the email let me read the email to 29 00:01:48,300 --> 00:01:52,950 me because I'm an email to an emergency planned power outage. 30 00:01:53,610 --> 00:01:53,820 How 31 00:01:53,820 --> 00:01:56,220 Dave Jones: can it be an emergency and planned at the 32 00:01:56,220 --> 00:01:56,970 same time? 33 00:01:58,830 --> 00:02:01,440 Adam Curry: How would the dog is more I got so much going on here 34 00:02:01,470 --> 00:02:02,370 with the dog barking. 35 00:02:03,900 --> 00:02:04,920 Unknown: Need to stop this? Yeah, I 36 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:06,810 Adam Curry: gotta stop. You gotta stop take for one second. 37 00:02:06,810 --> 00:02:11,190 Hold on. Alright, I'm back here. So Miss explain what's going on. 38 00:02:12,630 --> 00:02:16,950 We have we had a Schedule A planned painting of the inside 39 00:02:16,950 --> 00:02:21,510 of the house. Which is great except Tina then decided I'm 40 00:02:21,510 --> 00:02:26,580 gonna go visit my daughter in New York. Have fun. So now Now 41 00:02:26,580 --> 00:02:29,100 Mike and Aaron who are here are great guys. And I've known him 42 00:02:29,100 --> 00:02:33,090 for a long time. But the house is in disarray. The dog is 43 00:02:33,090 --> 00:02:36,330 really good with them. But you know if sometimes like oh, 44 00:02:36,330 --> 00:02:39,300 here's some plastic she's like well plastic I've never seen 45 00:02:39,300 --> 00:02:44,280 this plastic. So she has to go nuts anyway so no broader in the 46 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,980 studio. At least I just don't want you know, who knows is he's 47 00:02:46,980 --> 00:02:51,000 a big dog stuff can happen. So Oh, yeah. I can have pain on the 48 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,030 floor. Yeah, who knows? Who knows. So the plan power outage 49 00:02:54,030 --> 00:02:58,590 1pm which will be here Central Time. And on the on the 50 00:02:58,590 --> 00:03:01,500 voicemail message they said they're replacing a substation 51 00:03:01,530 --> 00:03:04,230 should only take five minutes. Now I've been around 52 00:03:04,260 --> 00:03:06,480 Dave Jones: them replacing that entire substation. 53 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:12,420 Adam Curry: I've been around sis admins long enough that don't do 54 00:03:12,420 --> 00:03:14,790 that to me. Don't tell me it's going to be only five minutes. 55 00:03:14,790 --> 00:03:19,410 Don't lie to me. It's just a thing we like Do not lie to me 56 00:03:19,410 --> 00:03:23,430 like that. Now, how long will it take? Well, here's the good 57 00:03:23,430 --> 00:03:30,210 news. The studio, including the router and the fiber interface 58 00:03:30,210 --> 00:03:36,150 are all on ups. So that should not be a problem. And and then, 59 00:03:36,630 --> 00:03:40,440 of course, after 30 seconds, my or 20 seconds, my backup 60 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,890 generator will kick in. So there's no problem there. But 61 00:03:43,890 --> 00:03:46,710 when they say substation, I don't know if that's going to 62 00:03:46,710 --> 00:03:49,950 bring down fiber somewhere. Because you know, we have a ring 63 00:03:49,950 --> 00:03:53,220 here in the hill country. And I think it has their own their own 64 00:03:53,220 --> 00:03:56,250 backup power because with outages always kept working. If 65 00:03:56,250 --> 00:03:59,100 it doesn't, then I'll just have to switch to another network. So 66 00:03:59,340 --> 00:04:06,090 you know, I have sky sky net. sky sky, Link. I've got 5g. I've 67 00:04:06,090 --> 00:04:08,580 got everything so it might just take a second or two. 68 00:04:09,300 --> 00:04:13,440 Dave Jones: Oh man so badly wanted when you were saying I've 69 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,470 got this and UPS and all this kind of stuff. And it'll be I 70 00:04:16,470 --> 00:04:20,520 wanted it to just drop right then. Did the signal just vanish 71 00:04:20,820 --> 00:04:23,070 right in the middle of this and as we were saying everything was 72 00:04:23,070 --> 00:04:23,610 going to be fun. 73 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:24,720 Adam Curry: That would be very funny. 74 00:04:25,860 --> 00:04:26,940 Dave Jones: It would be great for the show. 75 00:04:28,230 --> 00:04:30,270 Adam Curry: It would suck for the show. We don't want that 76 00:04:30,420 --> 00:04:31,230 funny though. The 77 00:04:31,230 --> 00:04:33,240 Dave Jones: really short episode it would be just be humor be 78 00:04:33,510 --> 00:04:39,090 humor. Like it will be fun to watch at 1pm. Yes, yeah, I gotta 79 00:04:39,090 --> 00:04:41,040 keep an eye on the clock because I want to see if we stay in 80 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:41,700 business or not. 81 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,970 Adam Curry: It should be okay. We'll figure it out should be in 82 00:04:44,970 --> 00:04:45,960 sysadmin world 83 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,020 Dave Jones: things only take. They think things are either 84 00:04:49,020 --> 00:04:51,930 either unnoticeable or very noticeable. There's no in 85 00:04:51,930 --> 00:04:55,170 between. Correct. Correct. Things don't usually take like 86 00:04:56,370 --> 00:05:01,800 10 minutes. 15 minutes. It's either 30 seconds or it's four 87 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,470 hours. Ah, 88 00:05:04,500 --> 00:05:06,240 Adam Curry: how you doing brother? How was I know you had 89 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,230 the most like the stressful week of the of the year the tax time. 90 00:05:10,230 --> 00:05:13,860 That's what your company does. You got through it. Okay. Yeah, 91 00:05:13,860 --> 00:05:14,430 and well yeah, I'm 92 00:05:14,430 --> 00:05:16,410 Dave Jones: on vacation. Oh man, how 93 00:05:16,410 --> 00:05:19,080 Adam Curry: nice is that? Yeah, I 94 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,660 Dave Jones: did. I've been we've been we live in an old house. 95 00:05:22,380 --> 00:05:26,520 Very old. And so we've been ever since we bought it in 20 You've 96 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,010 Adam Curry: been you've been renovating it? Yeah, 97 00:05:29,220 --> 00:05:31,140 Dave Jones: yeah. renovating it room by room and we're about 98 00:05:31,140 --> 00:05:35,940 halfway done. And which I look back and I'm like it's been 10 99 00:05:35,940 --> 00:05:37,020 years and we're only halfway done 100 00:05:38,460 --> 00:05:40,620 Adam Curry: we've been here for three the house is only five 101 00:05:40,620 --> 00:05:43,740 years old but the insight you know it's white that we don't 102 00:05:43,740 --> 00:05:46,560 have kids but you know after a while like yeah the scarf and 103 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,100 everything and grimy So yeah, we're doing all that and then 104 00:05:50,130 --> 00:05:53,790 we're going to do our floor next year maybe depends. So we're 105 00:05:53,790 --> 00:05:56,430 doing the same thing this is our forever house I mean feet first 106 00:05:56,430 --> 00:05:57,660 out of this one I'm done. 107 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,070 Dave Jones: We were we might we might be here forever too. It's 108 00:06:02,100 --> 00:06:05,850 it's one of those it's one of those things and like we we 109 00:06:05,850 --> 00:06:09,450 ended up the house was in terrible shape when we first 110 00:06:09,450 --> 00:06:13,770 bought it we got it for a good price but we we had to do a ton 111 00:06:13,770 --> 00:06:17,220 of like emergency stop the thing for falling down work. Like 112 00:06:17,250 --> 00:06:18,180 right out of the gate 113 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,800 Adam Curry: was Was this a bargain this house was dry 114 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:27,180 Dave Jones: is a bargain basement. But seeing as hell I'm 115 00:06:27,180 --> 00:06:32,490 such a crafty fellow that was able to do that. Do that really 116 00:06:32,490 --> 00:06:35,610 quick get all that stuff done. And then now now it's all just 117 00:06:35,610 --> 00:06:38,550 like cosmetic stuff. So we're just like, it doesn't the house 118 00:06:38,550 --> 00:06:42,300 you walk in it doesn't look bad. It's just that like it has no 119 00:06:42,300 --> 00:06:46,140 insulation in the wall. So in the you know, in the winter, 120 00:06:46,140 --> 00:06:49,350 it's like oh, it's so cold in here. And that kind of thing. So 121 00:06:49,350 --> 00:06:52,050 now we're going back and just gutting a room doing all the 122 00:06:52,050 --> 00:06:55,050 insulation here Yes, I hear it's just all that stuff this like 123 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,750 yeah, so I'm just doing all that stuff myself because I'm not 124 00:06:57,750 --> 00:07:02,730 about to like drop a you know $50,000 equity line instead. 125 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,820 Adam Curry: Oh, no. What at 8% interest? I don't think so. 126 00:07:05,820 --> 00:07:07,080 Yeah, no, no, no. 127 00:07:07,860 --> 00:07:09,390 Dave Jones: I told him Listen, when I first moved here I'm 128 00:07:09,390 --> 00:07:12,630 like, I'm not going into debt to this house. I'm not doing that 129 00:07:12,660 --> 00:07:13,530 we're almost 130 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:18,300 Adam Curry: out of debt. We we we might own this house but in 131 00:07:18,300 --> 00:07:21,690 two years. So we done pretty good on that. And oh 132 00:07:21,690 --> 00:07:23,700 Dave Jones: yeah, that's right. drabbit My studio is in the 133 00:07:23,700 --> 00:07:25,290 bargain basement it 134 00:07:25,290 --> 00:07:27,720 Adam Curry: is the is the bargain basement studio BBs, 135 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:28,230 everybody. 136 00:07:28,770 --> 00:07:30,810 Dave Jones: Yeah, I think people have been around since the 137 00:07:30,810 --> 00:07:34,470 beginning of the show. Remember the Oh yeah. Days of me. The 138 00:07:34,470 --> 00:07:37,110 room was just nothing but studs, studs and 139 00:07:37,410 --> 00:07:40,950 Adam Curry: and what have fiber packing, you know the 140 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:45,210 installations, mineral wool, mineral. That's it. Yeah. Before 141 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,490 we have a great guest today. I'm very excited to talk to our 142 00:07:47,490 --> 00:07:49,920 guests. But we have a couple things to discuss beforehand. 143 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:54,600 And the thing that I realized I really only listened to a number 144 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:59,100 of podcasts kind of religiously. And I love listening to all I 145 00:07:59,100 --> 00:08:02,250 love the hosting company podcasts. I may not listen to 146 00:08:02,250 --> 00:08:04,350 all of them all the way through but I usually check them all 147 00:08:04,350 --> 00:08:10,320 out. And then of course there's you know, the the daily pod news 148 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,190 I listened to that I stream a lot per minute and and I love 149 00:08:14,790 --> 00:08:18,270 pod news weekly review that, in fact, it came out last night, 150 00:08:18,420 --> 00:08:22,080 and I was in bed or Hebrews. Oh, there it is. And I think I got 151 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,930 through 10 minutes you leaped out of bed and I know it's next 152 00:08:24,930 --> 00:08:27,240 to me in 10 minutes like I can because you know Tina is not 153 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:31,800 here. I can listen to this embed, fall asleep. The dulcet 154 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:36,390 tones of Sam Sethi and but I've listened to buzz cast, you know 155 00:08:36,390 --> 00:08:39,750 the what does that Libsyn Cass new media show the future of 156 00:08:39,750 --> 00:08:43,200 podcasting and everybody's talking about YouTube and I have 157 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,890 to take a stand. I gotta say some, okay, say it to first of 158 00:08:46,890 --> 00:08:51,810 all, I realized the reason why everybody's these these people, 159 00:08:51,810 --> 00:08:54,570 not everybody, but the reason why these people talk about 160 00:08:55,110 --> 00:08:58,830 YouTube so much that because podcasting is stagnant right now 161 00:08:59,130 --> 00:09:03,750 that all these companies and the people who are hosting, they all 162 00:09:03,750 --> 00:09:08,490 really need new podcasters to sign up. That you know, because 163 00:09:08,490 --> 00:09:13,200 you have churn and you're hosting companies and, and you 164 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,260 need to keep that going. That's a part of your new business. 165 00:09:16,260 --> 00:09:19,500 And, and Todd is actually much more open than he realizes 166 00:09:19,500 --> 00:09:23,250 talking about ROI on doing conferences and why he's not 167 00:09:23,250 --> 00:09:26,160 going there. Because, you know, he's got to sign up people. And 168 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,560 you know, everyone has different services. They don't talk about 169 00:09:28,560 --> 00:09:31,710 that much. But now you want us to produce your podcasts, we can 170 00:09:31,710 --> 00:09:36,450 do that too. But their business as our most businesses are 171 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:41,520 reliant upon getting new people in. And I think this big 172 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:46,920 mistakes being made here, because first of all, to have 173 00:09:46,950 --> 00:09:53,520 YouTube show. The YouTube music, YouTube Music app, there's just 174 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:59,190 not a podcast app. But you know, I hear Daniel J like now it 175 00:09:59,190 --> 00:10:01,560 could be really great. I hope they make a great I don't I hope 176 00:10:01,560 --> 00:10:06,930 they burn by hope they burn and fail. These people hate us. 177 00:10:07,290 --> 00:10:14,580 Please understand, Google hates RSS, they hate it. They ruined 178 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,360 Google Reader. Then they aggregated everybody in. 179 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:20,940 Everybody loved it, and that, oh, no, we've got to do 180 00:10:20,940 --> 00:10:24,330 something else because they make money. But if you think that 181 00:10:24,330 --> 00:10:29,640 they are going to really support podcasts, the way a podcast app 182 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,760 does, you've got another thing coming. There's no business 183 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,940 model for them in that. And I understand everybody's like, Oh, 184 00:10:35,940 --> 00:10:40,650 yeah, but there'll be discovery. No, no, they make money by 185 00:10:40,650 --> 00:10:45,060 getting you to watch as many videos as possible. In his in as 186 00:10:45,060 --> 00:10:48,240 long as they can keep you on the product. They're not going to be 187 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,680 recommending to our podcasts, or even one hour podcasts. That's 188 00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:56,100 not their business model. They won't let you bring your own 189 00:10:56,100 --> 00:11:01,830 ads. They hate you. Don't do this is a trap. And it's like, 190 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:07,080 Are we stupid? These people do and I'm not against video 191 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,530 podcast. But you can even hear what's going on at the 192 00:11:10,530 --> 00:11:15,840 conference is why the buzz cast was quite good about this. Well, 193 00:11:15,870 --> 00:11:19,020 you know, it's like, you know, in addition to a microphone, but 194 00:11:19,020 --> 00:11:22,800 I need maybe some editing software. I need a podcast host 195 00:11:23,130 --> 00:11:26,250 now but I need to do a video right? Everyone's just got a new 196 00:11:26,250 --> 00:11:31,230 video. And you let the enemy into your conference BLET these 197 00:11:31,260 --> 00:11:33,930 these horrible on the people themselves? Not horrible, of 198 00:11:33,930 --> 00:11:39,180 course. But you let this company who does not like the the basic 199 00:11:39,750 --> 00:11:46,350 fundamentals of podcasting, RSS, do not want that in existence. 200 00:11:47,940 --> 00:11:52,860 And you're letting them in, and, and pet you and fawn over you. 201 00:11:52,890 --> 00:11:58,740 They don't mean well, they want to hijack it. Because I mean, 202 00:11:58,740 --> 00:12:02,010 who turns Why did they turn off? They're perfectly good app, 203 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,850 Google podcasts was a good app. But I didn't use it personally. 204 00:12:06,330 --> 00:12:10,050 But it worked. It had all the all the functions and features 205 00:12:10,050 --> 00:12:14,130 you want had a lot of users. And let's just why did they close 206 00:12:14,130 --> 00:12:18,570 it? Because they don't want that being distributed. That way. 207 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:22,800 They can't make money off of it. It's It's amazing. I mean, Apple 208 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,340 can make money off of Apple podcasts because they sell it 209 00:12:26,340 --> 00:12:28,830 with their phone is a big part of that experience. It's been 210 00:12:28,830 --> 00:12:33,390 that way for, you know, 12 years or whatever. And it was 20. 211 00:12:33,390 --> 00:12:40,500 Whenever no more than that. Yeah, 12 years. So all of this 212 00:12:40,500 --> 00:12:45,810 video talk, which is, it's it's just people who don't realize, I 213 00:12:45,810 --> 00:12:48,810 think because no one's really doing this. No one's malicious. 214 00:12:49,290 --> 00:12:52,200 But you're you're you're trying to get people excited to do 215 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:57,330 podcasting. And the Borg has literally kind of told everybody 216 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,870 and even, and I have to take a stand on this too. If you're 217 00:13:00,870 --> 00:13:04,620 going to say, well, and I'll say it specifically James, and I 218 00:13:04,620 --> 00:13:07,230 have great respect for James, by the way, I loved his keynote, I 219 00:13:07,230 --> 00:13:10,050 thought his keynote was awesome. I don't know if that URL was 220 00:13:10,050 --> 00:13:14,280 public, for everybody of his keynote at Podcast Movement. 221 00:13:15,690 --> 00:13:18,900 Great. I've never seen him present great energy. It was 222 00:13:18,900 --> 00:13:22,980 funny, you know, he had it was a very, very, very good keynote. 223 00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:27,600 But I'm just not going to say that. Oh, as long as the 224 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,320 audience calls it a podcast? No, I'm going to I'm just going to 225 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:36,900 be a hardcore douchebag about it. Because a podcast is is an 226 00:13:36,900 --> 00:13:41,610 RSS feed with an enclosure. That's it. Yeah. And anything 227 00:13:41,610 --> 00:13:45,030 else is a video show a YouTube video. It's just it's not the 228 00:13:45,030 --> 00:13:47,430 same thing. And if the audience wants to call that fine, I'm 229 00:13:47,430 --> 00:13:49,830 still gonna say that's not a podcast. 230 00:13:50,850 --> 00:13:56,520 Dave Jones: I'm actually nervous for the podcast ecosystem that 231 00:13:56,700 --> 00:13:59,580 I'm saying ecosystem specifically because I think 232 00:13:59,580 --> 00:14:05,610 podcasting itself as defined by our RSS feed within within with 233 00:14:05,610 --> 00:14:10,380 an enclosure, that's just that simple technology that will be 234 00:14:10,380 --> 00:14:15,420 around forever. But like the the podcasting ecosystem, and people 235 00:14:15,420 --> 00:14:21,390 we know and love within that system, that's actually nervous 236 00:14:21,390 --> 00:14:27,210 for that. I'm in the reason is because so like, Yeah, I'll 237 00:14:27,210 --> 00:14:32,490 listen to a new media show, too. And Rob, so Rob, and Tom, were 238 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:38,760 arguing about video for the 17th time. And then Todd said, you 239 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:40,500 know, Todd's like, well, that, you know, when most people 240 00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:43,290 shouldn't do video, I mean, this is not, they're not going to 241 00:14:43,290 --> 00:14:45,300 most people are not going to be successful with video, blah, 242 00:14:45,300 --> 00:14:47,940 blah, you know, and then Rob says, well, then was everybody 243 00:14:47,970 --> 00:14:49,590 was everybody's talking about video. 244 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,580 Adam Curry: Questions. He's doing it. And 245 00:14:53,700 --> 00:14:55,620 Dave Jones: there's a simple question. There's a simple 246 00:14:55,620 --> 00:14:59,970 answer to that. And it's one we've talked about before. The 247 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:05,010 Isn't, quote unquote everyone is talking about video. It's not 248 00:15:05,010 --> 00:15:09,360 everyone, it's the advertiser is the dish is the digital 249 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:13,770 advertising brokers, dealers agents. Yeah, that's who's 250 00:15:13,770 --> 00:15:18,930 talking about it, because they see that the the quote unquote 251 00:15:18,930 --> 00:15:24,000 $2 billion within podcasting was always BS. There's not $2 252 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:29,430 billion in podcasting, podcasting was the last the last 253 00:15:29,430 --> 00:15:34,290 five years of podcasting. Six years or roughly, of podcasting 254 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:35,850 was an anomaly. 255 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,510 Adam Curry: Yes, it was free money anomaly, a free money 256 00:15:39,510 --> 00:15:40,620 anomaly. It 257 00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:46,260 Dave Jones: was a free money induced anomaly. And that's it. 258 00:15:47,310 --> 00:15:51,750 So they're shifting. So the digital advertisers are shifting 259 00:15:51,780 --> 00:15:58,530 out of podcasting into YouTube. Because Youtube is where all 260 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,400 their that's where the cash cow is for now. That's where 261 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,490 everybody that's where you can get all the metrics and, and all 262 00:16:05,490 --> 00:16:09,210 that it's the, it's the latest version of Facebook, for me for 263 00:16:09,210 --> 00:16:12,390 media for video and audio. They think they can get all the 264 00:16:12,390 --> 00:16:15,330 targeting, they want all that kind of stuff. Everything's 265 00:16:15,330 --> 00:16:20,790 moving that way. Therefore, all the apt because podcasting is 266 00:16:20,790 --> 00:16:31,320 has, has sort of unknown has, like they've unhealthily tied 267 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,490 themselves to the digital to digital advertising. They're 268 00:16:35,490 --> 00:16:40,650 getting pulled along with it over to as this exodus happens 269 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,760 over to YouTube, in its catabolic to the to the podcast, 270 00:16:44,940 --> 00:16:50,580 industry. If you say, YouTube, is podcasting, you are going to 271 00:16:50,580 --> 00:16:54,060 cannibalize podcasting. And so it means that you're going to 272 00:16:54,060 --> 00:17:01,110 pull audience away from podcasting into YouTube. And 273 00:17:01,170 --> 00:17:05,160 then you're you're going to wake up one day, and the you and the 274 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,150 podcasting industry is going to be it's gonna be completely 275 00:17:09,150 --> 00:17:11,310 decimated. I, 276 00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:18,180 Adam Curry: okay, I'm not that fatalistic at all. You're we're 277 00:17:18,180 --> 00:17:23,790 not going to see NPR, BBC PBS, we're not going to see these big 278 00:17:23,790 --> 00:17:26,880 high end productions available in audio moved to video, that's 279 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:32,190 not going to happen, they have no money for that. They are they 280 00:17:32,190 --> 00:17:37,020 said the same thing about radio when television came along. What 281 00:17:37,020 --> 00:17:41,160 I found and I am this is nothing personal, nothing person. I love 282 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:45,360 everybody. I love you all like brothers and sisters. But I do 283 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:48,540 not want you to succeed by building a great podcast app, I 284 00:17:48,540 --> 00:17:52,560 don't, but I don't want them to do and a great podcast app that 285 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:57,510 is is is a lot of work, a lot of dedication, a lot of listening 286 00:17:57,510 --> 00:18:03,900 to your up to your users. And you have to be you know, it's 287 00:18:03,930 --> 00:18:08,070 it's a lot of work. And a lot of love goes into that you can and 288 00:18:08,070 --> 00:18:12,030 this is why no one's really done it successfully. And since 289 00:18:12,030 --> 00:18:14,670 Spotify couldn't do it, no matter what they try, okay, they 290 00:18:14,670 --> 00:18:18,480 got 30% But whatever, I don't care. It's it's irrelevant. It's 291 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:23,280 completely irrelevant. Our job here is to make sure that any 292 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,730 type of podcasts whether it's audio or video, doesn't matter. 293 00:18:26,730 --> 00:18:29,910 My my app that I use does video too. And it seems to work just 294 00:18:29,910 --> 00:18:34,290 fine. I'm not that interested, mostly. You know, the only video 295 00:18:34,290 --> 00:18:38,460 I've really watched these concerts, which work fine. But 296 00:18:38,460 --> 00:18:41,520 in general, I'm an audio guy. And I would wager that a lot of 297 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,130 the so called podcasts, everybody watches, I think a lot 298 00:18:44,130 --> 00:18:48,000 of them listen to it. Now on the on the on a YouTube app, click 299 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:52,440 Close the screen doesn't matter. This is a beautiful medium is 300 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,580 very cost effective to produce. That's not going to go away. I 301 00:18:56,580 --> 00:19:00,960 don't believe the audience the audience is used. This is like 302 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:05,400 religion. People who use overcast love it for the 303 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,600 features that overcast delivers to them. But which is not 304 00:19:10,020 --> 00:19:13,080 specifically podcasting 2.0 features. In fact, there's none 305 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:18,210 of those, the new audiences that we've been bringing into 2.0 I 306 00:19:18,210 --> 00:19:23,100 mean, man, when we changed a little bit of the function about 307 00:19:23,100 --> 00:19:26,700 chapters, which changed the table of contents, and that has 308 00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:30,270 been since corrected. It was like it was like, you know, 309 00:19:30,390 --> 00:19:36,660 Jihad had been committed, like what my chapters are. It was 310 00:19:36,660 --> 00:19:44,220 amazing, amazing what took place. But even even so, I use 311 00:19:44,220 --> 00:19:46,950 the apps that I use for specific and actually I use different 312 00:19:46,950 --> 00:19:50,730 apps for different reasons for different shows. But that's all 313 00:19:50,730 --> 00:19:55,080 very it's a very, very personal experience. And the go ahead me 314 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,220 Oh, go ahead. Google. Go ahead YouTube, try and build a great 315 00:19:59,220 --> 00:20:02,220 app that does Music and podcasting and video and audio 316 00:20:02,220 --> 00:20:07,050 Good luck, it's not going to be very easy. Our job here and our 317 00:20:07,050 --> 00:20:09,870 guests, I'm looking forward to speaking to our guests today 318 00:20:09,870 --> 00:20:14,100 about it. Because I think we can also help the add the mark, I'm 319 00:20:14,100 --> 00:20:16,230 going to call it marketing, not advertising, I'm going to help 320 00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:20,490 the marketing side. Because there there are opportunities 321 00:20:20,790 --> 00:20:25,740 that the all these other platforms and and the agency, I 322 00:20:25,740 --> 00:20:29,370 want to remove all of that. I would love to remove all 323 00:20:29,370 --> 00:20:33,450 agencies, all middlemen, all everything in almost like a 324 00:20:33,450 --> 00:20:39,900 value for value, man. We'll get to that later. But we're wasting 325 00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:44,160 a lot of time and energy. I would much rather talk about 326 00:20:44,910 --> 00:20:49,860 activity pub and the how we're fed defying these apps. And wow, 327 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,460 what a beautiful energy I saw after the board meeting last 328 00:20:53,460 --> 00:20:57,870 week, everybody's posting links and we got ideas and there's Oh, 329 00:20:57,870 --> 00:21:02,820 this guy's doing that. And we've had some private emails, like 330 00:21:02,820 --> 00:21:06,720 you know, here's what I'm thinking about. Then we have 331 00:21:07,050 --> 00:21:12,030 podcast a P, which Stephen released. And, and I finally 332 00:21:12,030 --> 00:21:17,010 figured out the right way to to promote it. And I did it on 333 00:21:17,010 --> 00:21:20,100 Twitter. And man, I got so much feedback. 334 00:21:20,850 --> 00:21:22,770 Dave Jones: Good. Great positive feedback. Only 335 00:21:22,770 --> 00:21:25,500 Adam Curry: positive people like wow, this is so cool. I can't 336 00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:28,560 believe it. Like I can search for my favorite podcast and now 337 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:33,060 I can follow it in on my on my Mastodon server, very positive 338 00:21:33,060 --> 00:21:36,720 feedback. Just so positive, in fact that I'm like, oh, there 339 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,330 goes the power. Okay. Am I still on? Yeah, 340 00:21:39,330 --> 00:21:43,140 Dave Jones: we're good. Okay, good. So we cut were cut over. 341 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,600 Yeah, we wound up as right now on ups 342 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,110 Adam Curry: now. And we should be no sheets did exactly one 343 00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:54,900 o'clock and generator coming on? Takes about 20 seconds. So I'll 344 00:21:54,900 --> 00:21:57,780 go check in a minute. Because I don't know if I can hear it in 345 00:21:57,780 --> 00:22:07,050 the studio. It's outside obviously. The where was I? Oh, 346 00:22:07,470 --> 00:22:12,960 the feedback. SAP? Yeah, it was so positive. That people give me 347 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,430 credit. I'm like, Whoa, stop. No, no, that's Steven. That's 348 00:22:17,430 --> 00:22:20,490 Dave. You know, it's everybody. Everyone's a big part of it. But 349 00:22:20,490 --> 00:22:25,380 that's no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm just here to promote it. And 350 00:22:25,410 --> 00:22:29,310 I have to say, it's, it's a very exciting feature. Okay. I think 351 00:22:29,310 --> 00:22:32,970 that's yeah, all right. Generally, yeah. Can you hear 352 00:22:32,970 --> 00:22:35,130 me? Adam? Yes. Hello. Hello. 353 00:22:35,790 --> 00:22:36,510 Dave Jones: Adam. Can you hear me? 354 00:22:36,540 --> 00:22:38,070 Adam Curry: I can hear you. Johnny came on 355 00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:40,230 Dave Jones: here. And I'm just messing with you, Dave. 356 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:44,970 Adam Curry: Are the generator just kicks in beautiful. 357 00:22:45,030 --> 00:22:47,970 Dave Jones: Yeah, we're five by five. Sounds great. Awesome. 358 00:22:48,540 --> 00:22:50,040 There's no, there's no generator. 359 00:22:50,220 --> 00:22:52,080 Adam Curry: I'm literally sitting. I'm literally sitting 360 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:56,580 here going like, wait a minute, if I hear him. I'm like, is this 361 00:22:56,610 --> 00:22:59,400 what sometimes it can be? It can be a buffer, right? It can be a 362 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,460 buffer in the in the software. I'm like, maybe it's buffered 363 00:23:02,460 --> 00:23:12,900 and clean feed day. Anyway, and so what I said and here I think 364 00:23:12,930 --> 00:23:15,360 I don't have in front of me. But my boost was something to the 365 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:22,530 effect of now you can comment, like, rate and review. Not 366 00:23:22,530 --> 00:23:26,610 entirely true. Your favorite podcast apps on any Mastodon 367 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:32,370 server. And as I was typing that out, I'm like, by the way, 368 00:23:32,370 --> 00:23:33,750 that's kind of true. 369 00:23:35,730 --> 00:23:39,540 Dave Jones: Like, if you just insert not entirely true, and 370 00:23:39,540 --> 00:23:45,480 then you can say anything you want. You're welcome. I make 371 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,200 millions of dollars. Not entirely true. But well, I mean, 372 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:49,890 you can 373 00:23:49,890 --> 00:23:51,750 Adam Curry: rate and review was just it would be tax, it 374 00:23:51,750 --> 00:23:53,340 wouldn't be anything that's aggregated. 375 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,770 Dave Jones: No, I think okay, before before I get before I 376 00:23:58,770 --> 00:24:03,450 lose this because I will lose it if I don't say it right now. The 377 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:14,460 I'm thinking that other other services could put this into 378 00:24:14,580 --> 00:24:17,970 their products. So like, the first thing that popped into my 379 00:24:17,970 --> 00:24:22,920 head was Nathan with episodes.fm. Yes, when you 380 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,250 listen to like when somebody gives you an episode.fm Link, 381 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,240 one of the things on the page where that is could be 382 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:34,800 subscribed to the podcast on Mastodon yes, we're activity 383 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,700 your whatever your activity pub client is, like, like that could 384 00:24:38,700 --> 00:24:43,380 be integrated into multiple different things to get sort of 385 00:24:43,380 --> 00:24:44,610 like the flywheel going. 386 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,060 Adam Curry: Yeah. There's, there's one thing that I'm 387 00:24:48,060 --> 00:24:53,460 struggling with. Okay. Because when I publish now, I go back 388 00:24:53,460 --> 00:24:56,850 and I publish again for many reasons, you know, if the 389 00:24:57,630 --> 00:25:01,770 chapters have the chapters have to be created after the RSS feed 390 00:25:01,770 --> 00:25:06,660 is created, because hyper hyper catcher, which I use requires 391 00:25:06,660 --> 00:25:10,080 that you know that it has the feed before it can add common 392 00:25:10,380 --> 00:25:14,280 chapters to it. So that's worked fine. I put a dummy chapter in 393 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:20,940 there and just updates. I also put a dummy. I put a dummy 394 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:27,240 transfer transcript file, but, and then I also go after the 395 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,480 fact and put in my route post, because I'll post and say, 396 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:35,730 Alright, here's the episode. And then I'll take that route post 397 00:25:35,850 --> 00:25:42,030 so that people posting on that can immediately start to comment 398 00:25:42,030 --> 00:25:48,240 on it. But what I think should really happen is the post that 399 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,540 goes out and is available on activity pub, I think that 400 00:25:51,540 --> 00:25:52,950 should be the route comment. 401 00:25:54,540 --> 00:25:57,870 Dave Jones: Maybe I'm wrong. Say that again? That again? All 402 00:25:57,870 --> 00:25:58,110 right. 403 00:25:58,260 --> 00:26:01,890 Adam Curry: So when I when I post this episode of podcasting, 404 00:26:01,890 --> 00:26:09,090 2.0. Eventually, what pops up on your federated timeline? If 405 00:26:09,090 --> 00:26:15,210 you're subscribed? Is the post birth right, the episode post? 406 00:26:15,750 --> 00:26:21,120 Should that be the root post? For the social danger? Are 407 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:23,610 Dave Jones: you talking about what comes from the bridge? Yes. 408 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,330 Adam Curry: Should that be the root post? I mean, it doesn't 409 00:26:27,330 --> 00:26:31,170 have to be I understand what if people start if people start 410 00:26:31,170 --> 00:26:39,420 subscribing to to a show on activity pub, the natural 411 00:26:39,420 --> 00:26:42,660 inclination is to comment on that post. If not, maybe on the 412 00:26:42,660 --> 00:26:45,600 one where I announced the show. Does that make sense? 413 00:26:46,350 --> 00:26:51,450 Dave Jones: In the AP in the AP bridge, when a new episode gets 414 00:26:51,450 --> 00:26:56,490 posted, if there's a comment thread, oh, it there's a link. 415 00:26:57,750 --> 00:26:59,610 Adam Curry: Okay, there's so much information in there. 416 00:26:59,610 --> 00:27:00,870 Probably hadn't seen it. 417 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,540 Dave Jones: Yeah, if you click through to that, it will take 418 00:27:03,540 --> 00:27:07,650 you to the root post and you can come in there. Kind of like them 419 00:27:07,650 --> 00:27:08,520 being separate. 420 00:27:08,550 --> 00:27:09,960 Adam Curry: I mean, yeah, okay. 421 00:27:09,990 --> 00:27:11,760 Dave Jones: It's not it's not like a real I'm not religious 422 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:16,170 about it. But I kind of, I kind of do think that it feels better 423 00:27:16,170 --> 00:27:18,780 to for me, it's for some reason that I can't really describe. 424 00:27:18,810 --> 00:27:19,050 Yeah, let 425 00:27:19,050 --> 00:27:20,670 Adam Curry: me let me just take a limit. Take a look at what a 426 00:27:20,670 --> 00:27:24,600 post looks like. I'll comment. Okay, no, you're right. You're 427 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,630 right. You're right. I actually I posted something. I don't know 428 00:27:27,630 --> 00:27:30,330 if you saw that. It would be great if you could add a hashtag 429 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:39,240 podcast to each individual post. So that when I'm in my Mastodon, 430 00:27:39,270 --> 00:27:45,000 I can just say, find me all hashtag podcast posts. So I can 431 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,130 look at everything that's come in. Does that make sense? 432 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,480 Dave Jones: It does what this feels like. Do you want to be on 433 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,670 bringing the guests because of a this? He's 434 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,340 Adam Curry: but I figured the longer we leave him waiting, the 435 00:27:56,340 --> 00:28:01,230 more wine who lived had fun or is the fun, he's got more fun. 436 00:28:01,230 --> 00:28:02,100 He's going to be 437 00:28:03,210 --> 00:28:05,670 Dave Jones: like, This is wrong to talk activity public. 438 00:28:05,700 --> 00:28:08,460 Adam Curry: You're right. Ladies and gentlemen, we are very proud 439 00:28:08,460 --> 00:28:12,480 and happy to welcome to the board room of podcasting. 2.0 440 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,200 The man who is not just the I think he's more of the producer 441 00:28:16,230 --> 00:28:20,490 and co host but co hosts of pod news weekly review. CEO of true 442 00:28:20,490 --> 00:28:25,380 fans, ladies and gentlemen, the one and only Mr. Sam sevi. Oh, 443 00:28:25,410 --> 00:28:26,370 wow. Thank 444 00:28:26,370 --> 00:28:27,960 Sam Sethi: you for that. Thank you. Thank you. 445 00:28:28,350 --> 00:28:31,020 Dave Jones: He left out. You left out titular head of the 446 00:28:31,020 --> 00:28:31,620 podcast. Oh, 447 00:28:31,620 --> 00:28:33,930 Adam Curry: yes. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. spokesmodel. For the 448 00:28:33,930 --> 00:28:36,510 podcast Standards Project. You're I'm sorry. That was full 449 00:28:36,510 --> 00:28:38,100 power. On my part. Sam. Well, 450 00:28:38,100 --> 00:28:40,500 Sam Sethi: most important role. Yes. Thank you very much. Good 451 00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:40,860 evening. 452 00:28:41,010 --> 00:28:44,310 Adam Curry: Good evening. Good evening, sir. All right. Now 453 00:28:44,310 --> 00:28:47,400 he's here. What do you want to do with them? Dave? Well, what 454 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:47,940 do you want to do? 455 00:28:49,980 --> 00:28:51,990 Dave Jones: Well, I mean, this, but the reason I thought I'd 456 00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:55,740 bring him in, because this was brought up once before about the 457 00:28:55,740 --> 00:29:01,560 hashtags. And it was debated out a little bit whether it should 458 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:08,430 just be podcast, which kind of ends up if your federated could 459 00:29:08,430 --> 00:29:11,610 end up being a bunch of stuff. That's not actually podcast 460 00:29:11,610 --> 00:29:15,330 episodes, or if it should be some unique hashtag, to like the 461 00:29:15,330 --> 00:29:19,380 AP bridge or something that says, like this is, this is 462 00:29:19,380 --> 00:29:21,270 actually an episode of a podcast. 463 00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:26,460 Adam Curry: That's, that's a point. And 464 00:29:26,460 --> 00:29:28,920 Dave Jones: I don't know what the answer to that is. Do you 465 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,300 have thoughts? Yes. Am 466 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,720 Sam Sethi: I on that one? No, but I do have thoughts on what 467 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,230 Adam was saying. I'd actually like to see the social interact 468 00:29:37,260 --> 00:29:41,970 tag attached to the follow tag, which I think because you're 469 00:29:41,970 --> 00:29:46,560 going to be putting out a graphic which is the episode Alt 470 00:29:46,620 --> 00:29:49,860 or the podcasts are and then nothing below that would be 471 00:29:49,860 --> 00:29:54,090 great because you're otherwise going to have two posts and 472 00:29:54,090 --> 00:29:56,550 people are going to look at that and go, Where do I start? Well, 473 00:29:56,550 --> 00:29:57,150 it should be me 474 00:29:57,180 --> 00:29:59,400 Adam Curry: me just makes a very good point over there in the 475 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,360 boardroom. You says that then you won't be able to moderate it 476 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,470 if it comes from the bridge. Which I think which I think is a 477 00:30:07,470 --> 00:30:09,960 very fair and I'm okay now that I haven't actually seen it but 478 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,430 now there's the common thread right there and hyperlinks. I 479 00:30:14,430 --> 00:30:16,380 think I'm okay with that. I understand where you're coming 480 00:30:16,380 --> 00:30:19,740 from Sam. But I hadn't even thought about the moderating 481 00:30:19,740 --> 00:30:22,230 point and I think that that's a very fair point. 482 00:30:22,530 --> 00:30:24,030 Dave Jones: Well, I've got to make some changes to this 483 00:30:24,030 --> 00:30:29,520 anyway. Change Yes. Those kind Yeah, I'm getting that because 484 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:34,380 where it says so I'm gonna change eventually as soon as 485 00:30:34,380 --> 00:30:37,740 Nathan gets his episodes.fm updated to handle things that 486 00:30:37,740 --> 00:30:41,160 are non on iTunes. Yeah, yeah, I'm just going to put that in 487 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,700 and take out all of those individual links. Ah, perfect. 488 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,260 Perfect. Yeah, but somebody else had a good a good comment the 489 00:30:49,260 --> 00:30:53,730 other day saying that the posts that are coming from the bridge 490 00:30:55,290 --> 00:31:00,480 did if there's if the episode art is just the same thing as 491 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:05,340 the album art as the fee level or the production posts that it 492 00:31:05,490 --> 00:31:07,860 should probably should not be immediate attachment within the 493 00:31:07,860 --> 00:31:12,150 post because it just makes it kind of bigger and more you know 494 00:31:12,150 --> 00:31:12,720 a bigger deal 495 00:31:13,980 --> 00:31:17,160 Adam Curry: I'd love to see my art that because I have new art 496 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:18,150 for every episode. 497 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,300 Dave Jones: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like if if you have 498 00:31:21,300 --> 00:31:24,690 a show that doesn't have Oh, I see what you're saying. I see 499 00:31:24,690 --> 00:31:28,140 what you're because right now in that case it just the episode it 500 00:31:28,140 --> 00:31:32,550 just posts the same art every single time. The body of the 501 00:31:32,550 --> 00:31:34,890 Adam Curry: post still kind of caches my art but 502 00:31:36,330 --> 00:31:38,790 Dave Jones: oh, is it still? Yeah, I don't know how to change 503 00:31:38,790 --> 00:31:44,760 that. It's mastodon. I don't know how to invalidate a remote 504 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,100 mastodons cache. Or if you can even Well, it's 505 00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:51,120 Adam Curry: funny because it's art from three episodes ago. 506 00:31:52,500 --> 00:31:54,570 Dave Jones: I've noticed that there's a lag it'll be for a 507 00:31:54,570 --> 00:31:56,760 while and then it'll catch an update. 508 00:31:56,820 --> 00:31:58,680 Adam Curry: It's not a huge problem because I see you're 509 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:05,400 right. The episode art is right there. Actually, you know it's 510 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,960 almost like a feature now. Just like has has has has old art as 511 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,750 the as the badge and then it hasn't had the new art on on 512 00:32:12,750 --> 00:32:16,500 below. It's a feature like 513 00:32:16,500 --> 00:32:22,410 Dave Jones: in the release notes. It says hold old art is a 514 00:32:22,410 --> 00:32:29,490 feature Yeah. Did so when you got when you got elected as the 515 00:32:30,780 --> 00:32:34,140 SAM as the head of the of the podcast, Project grip 516 00:32:34,140 --> 00:32:38,340 Adam Curry: meeting, LLC, I was thinking is this meeting. 517 00:32:38,670 --> 00:32:41,820 Dave Jones: It's like a ceremony where that what like, if, if 518 00:32:41,820 --> 00:32:44,970 you're elected, like the white smoke comes out of the chimney, 519 00:32:45,300 --> 00:32:46,950 not elected the blacks, not like 520 00:32:48,420 --> 00:32:50,730 Adam Curry: any had to lay down like that he had to lay down in 521 00:32:50,730 --> 00:32:53,910 a casket and confess his deepest secrets to them first, like 522 00:32:53,910 --> 00:32:54,900 Skull and Bones. 523 00:32:57,450 --> 00:33:00,870 Sam Sethi: Now, this, this all came about because when the PSP 524 00:33:00,870 --> 00:33:04,950 was formed, what 18 months ago, I thought it was a good idea. It 525 00:33:04,950 --> 00:33:08,550 was going to be all the hosts the apps getting together and I 526 00:33:08,580 --> 00:33:11,130 recommended a couple of other people forward for it other than 527 00:33:11,130 --> 00:33:13,590 myself and my thought, you know, somebody else needs to step 528 00:33:13,590 --> 00:33:17,460 forward. Because it was a case of all the other people we get 529 00:33:17,460 --> 00:33:20,580 were really excited to do, but nobody had the job of actually 530 00:33:20,580 --> 00:33:23,910 doing it. And so I recommended other people and nothing 531 00:33:23,910 --> 00:33:28,410 happened from that. So over in LA, I spoke to a couple of posts 532 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:33,000 and and I said look, okay, if if everyone's okay with that are 533 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,180 happily step forward and try and do it for a year. And then 534 00:33:36,180 --> 00:33:38,700 someone can take out from from me in a year's time, whatever. 535 00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:42,720 But I've enjoyed the last two weeks, I've been having a call 536 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,990 with nearly every host or every app, and talking to them about 537 00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:49,800 what tags they got, had they get certified where they are in the 538 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,910 cycle, what's coming out with 1.1. So it's been pretty busy. 539 00:33:53,910 --> 00:33:55,830 But I think it's been good fun. I 540 00:33:55,830 --> 00:34:01,080 Adam Curry: want to thank you. You are uniquely qualified for 541 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:06,030 this job for this position. Of course not a job because you are 542 00:34:06,030 --> 00:34:11,160 uniquely qualified. Although I am not on the mailing list. The 543 00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:15,540 the fact that you sent out a press release, about transcripts 544 00:34:15,540 --> 00:34:19,020 two and a half million transcripts, beloved, that that 545 00:34:19,020 --> 00:34:23,910 is exactly what this group needs. So I hope you're able to 546 00:34:23,910 --> 00:34:27,240 build that up and and actually, I think you will, I mean, you've 547 00:34:27,240 --> 00:34:30,030 been product manager, marketing manager, you know how to do this 548 00:34:30,030 --> 00:34:33,330 stuff. You're good at it. I like that. I think it's a very good 549 00:34:33,330 --> 00:34:36,690 choice. Did they know how to do this? Did you say hey, I want to 550 00:34:36,690 --> 00:34:42,270 do it or Yeah, yeah. Everybody finally we got a sucker to say 551 00:34:42,270 --> 00:34:45,330 yeah, sloping 552 00:34:45,329 --> 00:34:47,579 Sam Sethi: shoulders everywhere else. Yeah, he'll do it. Well, 553 00:34:47,609 --> 00:34:52,709 okay, fine. I actually had been frustrated. You probably heard 554 00:34:52,739 --> 00:34:54,119 me talking to James. No, I 555 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,400 Adam Curry: never noticed. I never noticed it. Never Noticed. 556 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:56,670 Yeah. 557 00:34:57,780 --> 00:35:00,900 Sam Sethi: But like I think the way I look at it is The group 558 00:35:00,900 --> 00:35:05,190 that we are podcasting to to our group, I think if the r&d group, 559 00:35:05,220 --> 00:35:08,610 you know, we're coming up with face sevens and crazy stuff, the 560 00:35:08,610 --> 00:35:12,990 phase evens popping up. And it's just fun. And it's great idea. 561 00:35:13,020 --> 00:35:15,720 Not all of them will make the cutting floor. But I 562 00:35:15,720 --> 00:35:19,890 Adam Curry: prefer I prefer skunkworks. Yes, that's more, 563 00:35:19,890 --> 00:35:21,450 that's more of a skunkworks. 564 00:35:21,959 --> 00:35:24,809 Sam Sethi: But the the group that's in the middle should be 565 00:35:24,899 --> 00:35:30,809 more of the marketing and PR team going out internally, 566 00:35:31,019 --> 00:35:32,909 between each of the hosts saying, look, here's what's 567 00:35:32,909 --> 00:35:36,389 happening, you're in the group, you should be doing this catch 568 00:35:36,389 --> 00:35:39,389 up or slow down, or whatever it may be. Don't slow down, but and 569 00:35:39,389 --> 00:35:42,929 then I'm also working with the podcast Academy to do a series 570 00:35:42,929 --> 00:35:46,859 of web seminars. Because the thing I noticed was, there was a 571 00:35:46,859 --> 00:35:49,079 whole bunch of people who went to this thing called the 572 00:35:49,139 --> 00:35:52,559 zombies. And I wouldn't know one of those people and they 573 00:35:52,559 --> 00:35:55,499 wouldn't know what podcasting 220 was, but we all pulled 574 00:35:55,500 --> 00:35:58,740 Adam Curry: very smart, very smart, and I love that because 575 00:35:59,610 --> 00:36:02,820 that will actually make them more useful because I find them 576 00:36:02,820 --> 00:36:06,450 highly unusable, may end up and I'll say it, Sam, so you don't 577 00:36:06,450 --> 00:36:10,740 have to in the in the podcasting space. It's great to have, you 578 00:36:10,740 --> 00:36:13,290 know, an award ceremony. I'm against them. I think it's an 579 00:36:13,290 --> 00:36:17,130 anachronism, a rack no RISM an inaccurate help me Dave, an 580 00:36:17,190 --> 00:36:23,160 anachronism anachronism in general. And, and I despise 581 00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:26,310 Awards where you have to pay to to get in, but okay, that's 582 00:36:26,310 --> 00:36:31,770 fine. It's a business model. But you're absolutely right. They 583 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,400 they have is the people who are there have visibility. They need 584 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,610 to it's really for them. I think the podcast Academy, the members 585 00:36:38,610 --> 00:36:41,700 themselves, the board, they are the ones that really need to do 586 00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:43,830 this, because they're all wrapped up in their own stuff. 587 00:36:44,729 --> 00:36:48,239 Sam Sethi: Yeah, and they've been really supportive and 588 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:53,099 wanting to do it. So we're gonna run through in the next month. 589 00:36:53,339 --> 00:36:54,269 Yeah, we'll see how they go. 590 00:36:54,300 --> 00:36:56,340 Adam Curry: So put me on your mailing list. I want to promote 591 00:36:56,340 --> 00:36:59,100 this. Because I didn't have I didn't have a press release to 592 00:36:59,250 --> 00:37:01,620 point to about the transcription. And this is good. 593 00:37:01,620 --> 00:37:03,330 It's good stuff. I'm excited 594 00:37:03,809 --> 00:37:05,729 Sam Sethi: to take it as given. 595 00:37:06,929 --> 00:37:10,799 Adam Curry: I want to get back into activity pub, because you 596 00:37:10,799 --> 00:37:13,499 were very instrumental in getting me really excited about 597 00:37:13,499 --> 00:37:17,789 it. And so first of all, you're right. Kudos. Good job. You were 598 00:37:17,789 --> 00:37:22,979 pushing it. And I was keep pushing back. Lightly but it 599 00:37:22,979 --> 00:37:25,289 really just because I was ignorant didn't understand it. 600 00:37:25,799 --> 00:37:28,829 By the way, did you know that? Another word for nice as 601 00:37:28,829 --> 00:37:30,779 ignorant. just learned that the other day? 602 00:37:31,770 --> 00:37:33,660 Dave Jones: I know a lot of nice people. Exactly. 603 00:37:35,730 --> 00:37:40,890 Adam Curry: br You are the CEO of true fans. And true fans is a 604 00:37:41,100 --> 00:37:44,400 web app, which functions very well as a progressive web app. I 605 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:49,650 mean, if I can just have one little bug report that I think 606 00:37:49,650 --> 00:37:53,760 I've mentioned before, but I'm one of those guys who uses a 607 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,750 password manager self hosted Password Manager. And it doesn't 608 00:37:57,750 --> 00:38:01,110 always work that well, for automatically, you know, 609 00:38:01,110 --> 00:38:05,790 fulfilling, but even if it does, because for some reason was true 610 00:38:05,790 --> 00:38:09,450 fans, I'm always being asked to log in what am I doing wrong? 611 00:38:09,809 --> 00:38:12,419 Sam Sethi: Me to find out 612 00:38:12,449 --> 00:38:15,479 Adam Curry: for certain? Because, yes, go ahead. No, I 613 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,790 Sam Sethi: think you know, one of the things I'd say with true 614 00:38:17,790 --> 00:38:22,110 fans, we we've accelerated to try and support so much, we need 615 00:38:22,110 --> 00:38:24,630 to go back and have a look at some things that probably have 616 00:38:24,630 --> 00:38:27,600 rough edges, and hadn't been fully completed are 617 00:38:28,079 --> 00:38:33,299 Adam Curry: good, because it deters me from using it. And I'm 618 00:38:33,299 --> 00:38:36,929 just telling you, because I love seeing all the features and 619 00:38:36,929 --> 00:38:39,929 stuff you're using. But I'm like, Ah, I log in again. So I 620 00:38:39,929 --> 00:38:44,009 gotta now I gotta go to my my app, I gotta you know, have to 621 00:38:44,009 --> 00:38:47,309 authenticate and then he won't autofill for whatever reason I'm 622 00:38:47,309 --> 00:38:50,729 not saying that that's true fans, so Okay, good because it 623 00:38:50,729 --> 00:38:54,029 seems like other people have that issue as well and and so 624 00:38:54,029 --> 00:38:56,939 I'm glad I'm glad you can take that back. I heard you on the 625 00:38:57,359 --> 00:39:01,679 very nice to be usurped who what show were you on two days ago? 626 00:39:02,219 --> 00:39:09,989 All about home pod home thanks Barry thanks very apt to Barry 627 00:39:10,289 --> 00:39:15,179 like oh let's let's have him on before podcasting. 2.0 right 628 00:39:15,179 --> 00:39:19,679 Dutch man Dutch boy got swept yeah we did. We got swept we got 629 00:39:19,709 --> 00:39:24,689 we got scooped scoop actually was great because it was you 630 00:39:24,689 --> 00:39:28,259 know as a nice long form interview. And I love hearing 631 00:39:28,259 --> 00:39:31,049 about mo your developer. I thought that was a fascinating 632 00:39:31,049 --> 00:39:34,829 story. Which we don't have to read discuss. Go everybody 633 00:39:34,829 --> 00:39:37,439 listened to is it all about podcasting, I think is what it's 634 00:39:37,439 --> 00:39:37,829 called. 635 00:39:38,159 --> 00:39:41,549 Sam Sethi: Just about thinking about what about podcasting? And 636 00:39:41,549 --> 00:39:42,029 I 637 00:39:42,030 --> 00:39:44,160 Adam Curry: listened to it every single episode. I love the 638 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,770 people he has on it's a great show, but he did scoop us and 639 00:39:46,860 --> 00:39:51,300 I'll never forgive him for that. Two things I want to ask you 640 00:39:51,300 --> 00:39:57,720 about your viewer your now you probably won't disclose it. But 641 00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:02,880 you're one click top up ads. SATs seems to be something 642 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:07,800 genius that no one has figured out. And, and you wouldn't tell 643 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:12,750 Barry how you did it. But I need to ask are you do? Are you a 644 00:40:12,750 --> 00:40:16,200 money transmitter? Because I'm worried about, you 645 00:40:16,229 --> 00:40:19,019 Sam Sethi: know, I'm gonna I'm gonna reveal it like, I thought 646 00:40:19,019 --> 00:40:22,259 about it very carefully. Should I tell other people how I've 647 00:40:22,259 --> 00:40:26,459 done it? And the answer is yes. Because the more apps that do it 648 00:40:26,459 --> 00:40:29,639 the Thank you, brother, thank you get involved. I don't need 649 00:40:29,639 --> 00:40:32,309 to keep that as the secret sauce. So look, one of the 650 00:40:32,309 --> 00:40:34,859 really interesting things it actually came from this show 651 00:40:34,859 --> 00:40:36,929 when I was listening to Oscar and Oscar was talking about 652 00:40:36,929 --> 00:40:40,979 primal and I, oh, my god, primal cadet, how are they doing it? 653 00:40:41,009 --> 00:40:44,699 Okay, so I looked at primal. And it's basically stripe has got a 654 00:40:44,699 --> 00:40:49,169 really cool Apple Pay integration API. You don't have 655 00:40:49,169 --> 00:40:53,939 to go to apple and do anything with the Apple people. You can 656 00:40:53,939 --> 00:40:57,629 go straight to stripe, they do all the work. We took the API. 657 00:40:57,959 --> 00:41:02,519 And we basically do a straight transfer through. So if you say 658 00:41:02,639 --> 00:41:07,019 I want $10, we take whatever that $10 is in SATs and we then 659 00:41:07,019 --> 00:41:10,769 use the OB API. So it comes out of the stripe API, we confirm 660 00:41:10,769 --> 00:41:13,649 the payment, and then we do an instant transfer straight 661 00:41:13,649 --> 00:41:14,189 across. 662 00:41:14,220 --> 00:41:18,180 Adam Curry: So it's running from your account. In essence, yes. 663 00:41:18,779 --> 00:41:22,379 Sam Sethi: Now we're going to OB have got two new products coming 664 00:41:22,379 --> 00:41:25,889 out. One is called OB Pro, which allows you to go over the 1 665 00:41:25,889 --> 00:41:30,089 million sat level, and then they've got a cold of wallet 666 00:41:30,089 --> 00:41:35,099 node that's going to work on Start nine and Umbral and that's 667 00:41:35,129 --> 00:41:40,289 unlimited. And so yeah, it is us doing very, 668 00:41:40,349 --> 00:41:42,539 Adam Curry: very smart idea. But are you are you worried? 669 00:41:42,869 --> 00:41:45,419 Legality wise, are you worried? Because I don't want I don't 670 00:41:45,419 --> 00:41:46,679 want anyone to get in trouble. 671 00:41:47,099 --> 00:41:51,029 Sam Sethi: See right now. We all have permission rather than and 672 00:41:51,029 --> 00:41:54,869 forgiveness later? I don't know. Because nobody, who would I ask? 673 00:41:55,049 --> 00:41:57,329 That's where I get Janet Yellen. 674 00:42:01,199 --> 00:42:03,269 Adam Curry: The President Yeah, the president. Yeah. 675 00:42:03,930 --> 00:42:05,040 Sam Sethi: And he's basically I think he's, 676 00:42:05,069 --> 00:42:07,619 Adam Curry: I think is genius. I love that hack. I think it's a 677 00:42:07,619 --> 00:42:10,889 great idea. And thank you for telling everybody how you did 678 00:42:10,889 --> 00:42:13,889 it. Thank you. That's, that's very, very cool. 679 00:42:14,609 --> 00:42:15,209 Sam Sethi: No worries, 680 00:42:15,240 --> 00:42:20,070 Adam Curry: very cool. There's so much I want to ask you about 681 00:42:20,070 --> 00:42:26,610 but since we're talking about the, the quote unquote, digital 682 00:42:26,610 --> 00:42:33,090 advertising world. And you even boasted about this on the last 683 00:42:33,090 --> 00:42:37,260 show, and then I have some updates of my own. And I'm going 684 00:42:37,260 --> 00:42:42,690 to try and describe what you're thinking about, or what you put 685 00:42:42,690 --> 00:42:45,810 into some degree have implemented. And the and it's 686 00:42:45,810 --> 00:42:49,080 one of the big promises of the internet. And there's really, 687 00:42:49,650 --> 00:42:53,010 there's, I used to say there's two, but there's three promises 688 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:57,360 that the internet had in the in the late 90s. And that we're 689 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:01,650 never delivered on the first one was, your refrigerator will know 690 00:43:01,650 --> 00:43:05,370 when you're out of milk, it will automatically order new milk. So 691 00:43:05,490 --> 00:43:09,570 that's, that will never happen. Good luck. You all lied about 692 00:43:09,570 --> 00:43:13,410 that. The second one was micro payments, we fulfilled that 693 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,490 micro payments are here we're doing it, it's we call it 694 00:43:17,490 --> 00:43:20,160 something different, but that's what value for value streaming 695 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:26,070 Satzes, it's micropayments beautiful. The third one was you 696 00:43:26,070 --> 00:43:31,410 will be in control of your time, and you will be compensated for 697 00:43:31,410 --> 00:43:35,550 your attention. This was the attention economy never 698 00:43:35,550 --> 00:43:38,370 delivered has never been delivered on it, because you 699 00:43:38,370 --> 00:43:41,610 need the previous micropayments to really do it properly. 700 00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:47,520 Correct. Now, the idea is that and I have all kinds of 701 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,190 specifics in my mind, but it's going to outline it. And the 702 00:43:50,190 --> 00:43:55,800 idea is that you can ask your audience to participate for 703 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,250 their time to listen to a marketing message. I'm 704 00:43:59,250 --> 00:44:02,970 specifically not saying advertising because the I don't 705 00:44:02,970 --> 00:44:08,100 like that marketing, message marketing. And, and you can 706 00:44:08,100 --> 00:44:11,220 decide if you want to do that or not, and you will be compensated 707 00:44:11,220 --> 00:44:15,930 for your time. And maybe if, if the marketer is lucky, then Oh, 708 00:44:15,930 --> 00:44:20,040 okay. I'm interested in that product. Correct. I'm just 709 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,500 worried. I'm just gonna say up front as I go through this 710 00:44:22,530 --> 00:44:26,100 because I'm coming at two with an agenda. A friend of mine is a 711 00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:30,510 very successful product marketer. He has a product that 712 00:44:30,510 --> 00:44:35,910 he that 55% of North America, everyone in North America uses 713 00:44:35,910 --> 00:44:41,130 this product, the ACE they are a the category product. This is 714 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:47,640 eligible for this product. And now it is a subscription based 715 00:44:48,420 --> 00:44:51,000 product or something that comes every six weeks or every you 716 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,760 know, like almost like coffee. It's not coffee, but like that. 717 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:59,190 The end he wants to play ball. He says he's all in that he 718 00:44:59,190 --> 00:45:03,450 loves the idea. Yeah. And he actually said, can we then also, 719 00:45:03,870 --> 00:45:07,050 the compensate the hosting companies and the app 720 00:45:07,050 --> 00:45:12,720 developers. So this is the kind of guy I love, then, and while 721 00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:20,130 we are value for value mindset and find advertising to be a 722 00:45:20,130 --> 00:45:24,990 problem, I love to zig when others are zagging. And if 723 00:45:24,990 --> 00:45:29,610 everybody is running around the aisle complaining about iOS 17, 724 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:34,860 aganda, if everybody is complaining about pixels, not 725 00:45:34,860 --> 00:45:39,540 loading and all this horrible attribution stuff, if we can 726 00:45:39,540 --> 00:45:43,500 offer marketers, people who have a product service, board, the 727 00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:47,100 Word of God to market, whatever you want to do, without having 728 00:45:47,100 --> 00:45:50,670 to go through agencies and spreadsheets and all this stuff, 729 00:45:50,850 --> 00:45:54,330 I would love to make it available. And in particular, 730 00:45:54,540 --> 00:45:58,800 for the longtail everybody who has under 10,000 downloads a 731 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:03,090 month, whatever that means. I want them to be the ones that 732 00:46:03,090 --> 00:46:06,480 benefit from this. How does that sound? 733 00:46:07,559 --> 00:46:08,399 Sam Sethi: Great to me. 734 00:46:08,490 --> 00:46:10,710 Adam Curry: All right. Now, can you explain what the heck you're 735 00:46:10,710 --> 00:46:11,130 doing? 736 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,880 Sam Sethi: Yes, so Well, as I said 737 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,280 Adam Curry: yesterday, this adult diaper subscription is 738 00:46:17,310 --> 00:46:19,830 possible. That's not the one but it is possible. 739 00:46:20,909 --> 00:46:25,769 Sam Sethi: So about a year ago, I came up with a concept called 740 00:46:25,769 --> 00:46:29,159 negative SATs. And I did that because I thought it would be a 741 00:46:29,159 --> 00:46:34,139 great way for creators to pay their listeners fans for their 742 00:46:34,139 --> 00:46:36,869 time and attention. So it might be you've got a brand new 743 00:46:36,899 --> 00:46:40,139 podcast and you have a trailer. And you want to promote that. 744 00:46:40,139 --> 00:46:43,709 And so you might put a small marketing budget aside, you 745 00:46:43,709 --> 00:46:48,179 know, 10,000 SATs, 100,000 SATs, and by putting it as a negative 746 00:46:48,179 --> 00:46:51,959 SAT, the flow of money goes from the Creator to the listener for 747 00:46:51,959 --> 00:46:55,559 the time they listen, the minute they stop listening, the flow of 748 00:46:55,559 --> 00:46:59,159 money stops. So that was the original Genesis of the idea. 749 00:46:59,189 --> 00:47:04,229 And then whoever, and whoever created the genius of remote 750 00:47:04,229 --> 00:47:08,789 item. And finally, time splits over the summer, last year was 751 00:47:08,789 --> 00:47:13,049 increased listening to this and all the pennies dropped. Because 752 00:47:13,079 --> 00:47:17,699 by wallet switching the music, which was the flow of money from 753 00:47:17,699 --> 00:47:21,359 the listener goes to the artists wallet, I thought well hang on a 754 00:47:21,359 --> 00:47:25,169 minute, I've got negative sides, can I get an advertiser in the 755 00:47:25,169 --> 00:47:30,239 same time slot in the reverse way. So I'm listening to this 756 00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:34,229 show, and you've got a marketing message or an advert. And 757 00:47:34,259 --> 00:47:37,349 instead, that of the money switching to the advertisers, 758 00:47:37,349 --> 00:47:42,359 while it like a music artist, the flow of money changes to now 759 00:47:42,359 --> 00:47:45,569 we've split, you know, Adam and Dave, you could say we're gonna 760 00:47:45,569 --> 00:47:49,799 keep 50% and 50% goes to the listener. So now the listener 761 00:47:49,799 --> 00:47:52,829 goes, Okay, I'm getting paid for my time and attention from this 762 00:47:52,829 --> 00:47:55,919 advertiser. They listen to a little bit of it. And if they 763 00:47:55,919 --> 00:47:59,039 don't like it, they skip and the minute they skip, the advertiser 764 00:47:59,039 --> 00:48:02,789 doesn't pay any more. But if the advertiser out, sorry, if the 765 00:48:02,789 --> 00:48:06,509 listener keeps listening to however long they want, to the 766 00:48:06,509 --> 00:48:10,679 advert, they get paid. And then the final part of that is in 767 00:48:10,679 --> 00:48:14,969 your user settings, you can set your sets per minute. So you 768 00:48:14,969 --> 00:48:18,359 might say, Well, if the advertiser is offering 100,000 a 769 00:48:18,359 --> 00:48:21,809 minute, play me the ad, but if they offered me 10 cents per 770 00:48:21,809 --> 00:48:26,219 minute, no, my time and value has much for so now. I tell you 771 00:48:26,219 --> 00:48:30,989 what, skip this ad, and that's it. Now, I hadn't worked out how 772 00:48:30,989 --> 00:48:31,349 it works. 773 00:48:32,129 --> 00:48:41,069 Adam Curry: I love that it's very app specific. How so? When 774 00:48:41,099 --> 00:48:45,569 just from a technical level and Dave chime in, to actually make 775 00:48:45,569 --> 00:48:47,909 this work, but by the way, I think that this that this 776 00:48:47,939 --> 00:48:51,089 offering should originate from the hosting companies, that's 777 00:48:51,089 --> 00:48:55,919 where a lot of the advertising comes from anyway, and so Okay, 778 00:48:55,919 --> 00:49:00,269 fee, and they understand the logistics of selling that and 779 00:49:00,269 --> 00:49:07,349 reporting back. It's okay baby, come here. Come here. Oh, how 780 00:49:07,349 --> 00:49:10,559 does it technically work with value time split? Where? Okay, 781 00:49:10,589 --> 00:49:19,079 so Phoebe. So, my friend de says, I pay he expects to pay an 782 00:49:19,079 --> 00:49:23,849 average of 30 to $50 to acquire one customer on the subscription 783 00:49:23,849 --> 00:49:27,719 service, which is a lot of money nowadays. And I said, dude, 784 00:49:27,839 --> 00:49:31,709 dude, we should be able to do much much better at that how on 785 00:49:31,709 --> 00:49:35,639 a technical level do we do we switch things around where the 786 00:49:35,639 --> 00:49:38,849 payment is actually coming from the so the way I envision it, 787 00:49:38,849 --> 00:49:43,109 the payment comes from the I'm just gonna ignore her comes from 788 00:49:43,109 --> 00:49:47,219 the the marketer. So the marketer has their budget, and 789 00:49:47,219 --> 00:49:50,639 there's a lot of parameters we got to put Phoebe okay, hey, 790 00:49:50,669 --> 00:49:56,009 getting your bed. The marketer has their budget, which also has 791 00:49:56,009 --> 00:50:00,899 to be finite. And everything has to be He switched around. So 792 00:50:00,899 --> 00:50:04,559 everybody's getting a piece. I liked the idea of skipping below 793 00:50:04,559 --> 00:50:08,789 a certain amount of SATs, how that skipping works is a huge 794 00:50:08,789 --> 00:50:12,089 issue, how does it mess up chapters, transcripts, etc. But 795 00:50:12,089 --> 00:50:17,669 just the pure value times, and I hope everyone takes this. I can 796 00:50:17,669 --> 00:50:22,169 feel eyes rolling. I just want to stop, I can feel eyes 797 00:50:22,169 --> 00:50:27,239 rolling. But if we want to really help podcasting up, take 798 00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:30,659 it away from all these eight holes in this horrible industry. 799 00:50:31,829 --> 00:50:34,709 And bring it back to the ecosystem distributed without 800 00:50:34,709 --> 00:50:38,279 anyone being in charge is what I love about it. We don't need to 801 00:50:38,279 --> 00:50:42,329 have one central buyer one system, it can be your podcast 802 00:50:42,329 --> 00:50:45,599 host, you can go direct all of this can be beautifully run. So 803 00:50:45,599 --> 00:50:49,349 please stick with me. Can we even do that on a technical 804 00:50:49,349 --> 00:50:53,789 level? Dave Jones? We can. Sorry? Yeah. I was just waiting 805 00:50:53,789 --> 00:50:54,329 to say yes. 806 00:50:56,429 --> 00:51:00,089 Dave Jones: We have. Yeah, you can definitely do that. I think 807 00:51:00,209 --> 00:51:05,489 on the marketing side. Like on the on the advertisers side? It 808 00:51:06,269 --> 00:51:09,029 makes more sense anyway, because you're only paying 809 00:51:09,420 --> 00:51:12,090 Adam Curry: for what's actually listened to for what's actually 810 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:13,200 yes, yes. 811 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,890 Dave Jones: You're not throwing money, you're not blindly 812 00:51:16,890 --> 00:51:19,980 throwing money and then waiting for a spreadsheet to say that 813 00:51:19,980 --> 00:51:25,200 maybe this thing got in front of people, you're not sure. I mean, 814 00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:29,610 like, it seems like you would spend less money to reach more 815 00:51:29,610 --> 00:51:33,030 people. And I think I mean, on the on the technical level, it 816 00:51:33,030 --> 00:51:38,700 doesn't seem difficult at all, now that we have the now that we 817 00:51:38,700 --> 00:51:43,860 have the source. And it was wallet in the TLV, 818 00:51:43,889 --> 00:51:47,609 Adam Curry: you know, in a way, fountain is already doing a 819 00:51:47,609 --> 00:51:52,349 version of this. Yeah, they are they're paying, they have the 820 00:51:52,349 --> 00:51:56,429 mechanism of paying SATs already kind of built in. I just don't 821 00:51:56,429 --> 00:51:59,519 know how much of it can really be controlled by the feed how 822 00:51:59,519 --> 00:52:04,469 much of is controlled purely by the feed. But both of you said 823 00:52:04,469 --> 00:52:08,159 yes. So I'm excited to hear that big. And I really want to say 824 00:52:08,159 --> 00:52:10,259 marketer, I don't want to say advertiser, 825 00:52:11,639 --> 00:52:14,009 Sam Sethi: to Adam, when you put booster grand bowl together, 826 00:52:14,009 --> 00:52:17,189 right? You you record the show, and you just play the music 827 00:52:17,189 --> 00:52:20,939 tracks, you did the whole thing in one hit and then you go back, 828 00:52:21,299 --> 00:52:25,379 and you then do the valley time splits into whatever app you 829 00:52:25,379 --> 00:52:25,919 use. 830 00:52:26,940 --> 00:52:30,840 Adam Curry: Well, it's even better than that. Because the 831 00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:35,760 magician known as Steven Bell, Steven B has hooked up my 832 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:40,920 playout system, which is m err list. So I put the I put all of 833 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,820 my songs that I'm going to play into the split kit. I download 834 00:52:44,820 --> 00:52:48,270 all he then he zips him up, I download all the songs in a zip 835 00:52:48,270 --> 00:52:53,130 file, put that into my my bucket for play. And then regardless of 836 00:52:53,130 --> 00:52:57,210 what song I play, it'll automatically trigger that in 837 00:52:57,210 --> 00:53:01,740 the split kit and put the appropriate start time blank etc 838 00:53:01,770 --> 00:53:06,870 into the split kit. And then all I have to do is go to sovereign 839 00:53:06,870 --> 00:53:10,680 feeds. I say import. And it does it does the chapters it does 840 00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,890 everything all in one go. But yes, you're right, I record and 841 00:53:13,890 --> 00:53:16,950 then it later is all put into the RSS feed. 842 00:53:17,849 --> 00:53:21,449 Sam Sethi: And so an adverb or a marketing message is simply an 843 00:53:21,449 --> 00:53:25,079 mp3 file potentially, that you would play just as you would a 844 00:53:25,079 --> 00:53:29,339 music track. And then later on in Split kit, you will just have 845 00:53:29,339 --> 00:53:31,589 a reverse sat element 846 00:53:31,620 --> 00:53:34,020 Adam Curry: can do. Do you like that? And I don't like negative 847 00:53:34,020 --> 00:53:36,810 sides reverse. That's a bad like to come up with another name. 848 00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:37,470 Personally, 849 00:53:37,499 --> 00:53:39,659 Sam Sethi: I'm happy for another name. But that's the only way 850 00:53:39,689 --> 00:53:41,669 I'm negative sounds so negative. 851 00:53:45,389 --> 00:53:48,299 Adam Curry: reversed, so I'm not sure and I'll take it one step 852 00:53:48,299 --> 00:53:53,039 further at that moment in time. So I can imagine, hey, here's 853 00:53:53,039 --> 00:53:55,559 this great product that I know you want this. Here's why you 854 00:53:55,559 --> 00:53:58,259 want it. I have it. I love it. I'm lying. What doesn't matter. 855 00:53:59,519 --> 00:54:02,999 And right now, you're you're being you're being compensated 856 00:54:02,999 --> 00:54:06,809 to listen to this, if you want it, tap on the chapter right 857 00:54:06,809 --> 00:54:12,329 now. I mean, can you imagine how marketers cream over this stuff? 858 00:54:13,169 --> 00:54:16,829 They really do they cream over this. And then it's anonymous. 859 00:54:16,919 --> 00:54:20,849 Nope, at the top there, chap. That's different. I'm not quite 860 00:54:20,849 --> 00:54:24,239 sure if we can like to keep that anonymous. But it the whole 861 00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,809 thing is anonymous. You know, there's no attribution unless 862 00:54:27,809 --> 00:54:30,839 you want to give it and then as as you rightly said, now we can 863 00:54:30,839 --> 00:54:35,639 get into activity streams with you for more compensation, which 864 00:54:35,639 --> 00:54:39,659 complicates the technology even more, you could offer more 865 00:54:39,659 --> 00:54:41,249 information to the marketer. 866 00:54:41,790 --> 00:54:44,820 Sam Sethi: Yes, and get paid for it. And I 867 00:54:44,819 --> 00:54:48,269 Adam Curry: am not against this. This is value for value for 868 00:54:48,269 --> 00:54:48,869 marketing 869 00:54:49,709 --> 00:54:54,209 Dave Jones: company. This is very, very platform specific. I 870 00:54:54,209 --> 00:55:00,749 don't because I don't I don't know that you can do this From, 871 00:55:01,319 --> 00:55:06,479 you can't you obviously can't do this from the feed. Because if 872 00:55:06,479 --> 00:55:11,009 I'm a listener, like, if I'm a listener, and I'm listening to, 873 00:55:11,639 --> 00:55:16,829 okay, let's let's just say I'm listening to an to boost ground 874 00:55:16,829 --> 00:55:20,459 ball, and then booster green ball and I'm doing it on cast 875 00:55:20,459 --> 00:55:25,529 ematic, histogram ball, then all sudden, there's an ad that comes 876 00:55:25,529 --> 00:55:32,399 in for a subscription adult diapers, and then eyes and there 877 00:55:32,399 --> 00:55:38,189 will they signal, there's a signal in the feed, at a value 878 00:55:38,189 --> 00:55:43,829 time split that this, that this ad is going to pay, let's say 879 00:55:43,829 --> 00:55:52,139 150 sets for anybody who listens to it. That's fine. My threshold 880 00:55:52,139 --> 00:55:59,249 maybe is 100 sets. But then I don't know how to signal to the 881 00:55:59,249 --> 00:56:03,899 advertiser that I've actually listened. Now now on the on a 882 00:56:03,899 --> 00:56:08,549 platform like true fans, or fountain, it's a difference is a 883 00:56:08,549 --> 00:56:11,339 different story, because the listening is happening in real 884 00:56:11,339 --> 00:56:16,619 time. And so you see, you can, you know, Sam can jump into and 885 00:56:16,619 --> 00:56:20,549 see that transaction as it's happening and do a payout. Yes. 886 00:56:20,549 --> 00:56:25,469 But on an off on an offline scenario like like cast Matic or 887 00:56:25,829 --> 00:56:30,359 overcast or something like that. I don't, right, know that 888 00:56:30,359 --> 00:56:33,569 there's an unnameable way to make that happen. 889 00:56:34,739 --> 00:56:35,489 Adam Curry: That's a good point. 890 00:56:36,149 --> 00:56:40,529 Dave Jones: I think it's I mean, like, Is it doable? Obviously, I 891 00:56:40,529 --> 00:56:41,519 have a second phone. 892 00:56:41,580 --> 00:56:45,000 Adam Curry: I have a secondary mission here. It's also meant as 893 00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:49,860 a marketing tool for podcasting. 2.0 apps. Being that's that's 894 00:56:49,860 --> 00:56:53,130 like booster Graham ball is like, why are you not listening 895 00:56:53,130 --> 00:56:55,560 to this on a modern podcast app? What are you doing? What's wrong 896 00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:58,470 with you stop? You're missing out on half the fun. 897 00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,610 Dave Jones: So yes, I think we were like, we built the raw 898 00:57:02,610 --> 00:57:07,170 materials. There. And now, now, it's just a matter of if if a 899 00:57:07,170 --> 00:57:09,720 platform wants to build something out, like tree fans 900 00:57:09,720 --> 00:57:12,990 has, or fountain or anybody else wants to build that out? I mean, 901 00:57:13,410 --> 00:57:16,560 they can do it. And I think I don't think there's anything 902 00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:18,360 else we need to do, I guess? Well, 903 00:57:18,870 --> 00:57:24,030 Adam Curry: there may be like, a special remote item, which might 904 00:57:24,030 --> 00:57:29,130 be necessary a tag in in remote item that says, Okay, this is 905 00:57:29,190 --> 00:57:35,340 this is a marketing block. So, couple things need to happen. 906 00:57:35,700 --> 00:57:41,280 The, you know, whatever the the payment, direction flow is, and, 907 00:57:41,460 --> 00:57:49,110 and receiving app equals local user wallet, and it probably 908 00:57:49,110 --> 00:57:54,210 needs to be connected to a chapter so that the app can 909 00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:57,360 otherwise skip right next to the next chapter. Does that make 910 00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:01,080 sense? What I'm saying? So if it doesn't trigger your threshold, 911 00:58:01,890 --> 00:58:07,410 then seamlessly go to the next chapter. bypassing the ADD? 912 00:58:08,339 --> 00:58:11,819 Dave Jones: Yes. Yeah, that makes sense. And because all 913 00:58:11,819 --> 00:58:15,089 that can be defined, I mean, it could be defined in the value 914 00:58:15,089 --> 00:58:16,019 times split to 915 00:58:16,410 --> 00:58:19,500 Adam Curry: Well, that's where I think it belongs. Yeah, cuz 916 00:58:19,500 --> 00:58:21,810 Dave Jones: you're, I mean, this is a value transaction. So if 917 00:58:21,810 --> 00:58:24,720 you're, if you're, you're essentially doing a value time 918 00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:28,560 split, in the opposite direction. So you define that 919 00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:31,830 split. So then you don't have to worry about the chapters 920 00:58:31,830 --> 00:58:35,280 necessarily, you just go back to when the splits the split ends, 921 00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,680 everything just goes back to where it was. Yeah, cuz then, 922 00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:40,170 you know, and, you know, you know, where the splits going to 923 00:58:40,170 --> 00:58:40,470 end? 924 00:58:40,739 --> 00:58:43,229 Sam Sethi: Yeah, you have the time marker, as well. So, if 925 00:58:43,229 --> 00:58:45,479 it's skipping, then it just skips forward to the next time 926 00:58:45,479 --> 00:58:45,869 marker? 927 00:58:46,770 --> 00:58:50,040 Adam Curry: Well, I think what you need is, is a speck of this, 928 00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:53,850 Sam, you know, then you're really good at building it all. 929 00:58:53,850 --> 00:58:58,500 And then saying, here it is, it works. But we need a spec that 930 00:58:58,500 --> 00:59:03,960 is understandable. So that, you know, we can we can really so 931 00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:08,670 that app devs can look at and say okay, I believe that the the 932 00:59:08,670 --> 00:59:12,840 by so to speak has to occur with the value time split, you have 933 00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:16,800 to be able to signal to everybody at the same time. So I 934 00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,710 think that you know that that has to be something that is 935 00:59:19,860 --> 00:59:23,280 evident in the in the in the remote item, the value time 936 00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:27,090 split has to be evident. This is what's going to happen at this 937 00:59:27,090 --> 00:59:31,410 remote remote this this value time split. And then so the apps 938 00:59:31,410 --> 00:59:34,680 will know Oh, okay, if I want to handle that I need to do X, Y, 939 00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:35,190 Z. 940 00:59:37,980 --> 00:59:41,940 Sam Sethi: Yeah, happy to do I mean, yeah. Again, the way I do 941 00:59:41,940 --> 00:59:45,480 things, you've seen it before I go and build stuff, throw it out 942 00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:47,970 in the world and then wait for everyone to look at it and then 943 00:59:47,970 --> 00:59:51,000 give me feedback. So but I'll happily put us back together as 944 00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:52,470 well. Now conversely, 945 00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:55,740 Adam Curry: if we don't do this, I also have a great example of 946 00:59:55,740 --> 00:59:58,440 what you can do for your advertising problems everybody. 947 00:59:58,830 --> 01:00:02,160 As I was listening to the DNX VR podcast because I always listen 948 01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:06,630 to sportsball podcast. And I heard the hosts do this, okay, 949 01:00:06,630 --> 01:00:06,780 we 950 01:00:06,780 --> 01:00:10,050 Unknown: have a really important ask for everyone which is going 951 01:00:10,050 --> 01:00:15,510 to help you but also help us as well. Apple podcasts did 952 01:00:15,510 --> 01:00:18,450 something at the beginning of this year, I think, where 953 01:00:18,450 --> 01:00:21,150 typically it will just automatically download your 954 01:00:21,150 --> 01:00:25,470 podcasts for you. And that helps us out helps you out by putting 955 01:00:25,470 --> 01:00:29,820 it in there. They stopped that. So now you have to go in and 956 01:00:29,850 --> 01:00:32,970 automatically or in turn on either automatic downloads or 957 01:00:32,970 --> 01:00:36,150 download every podcast individually. If everyone 958 01:00:36,150 --> 01:00:39,930 watching on YouTube, listen to the podcast would go to Apple 959 01:00:39,930 --> 01:00:43,950 podcasts. And please turn on downloads for our podcasts. It 960 01:00:43,950 --> 01:00:46,890 really, really, really would help us out. It's easy to do 961 01:00:46,890 --> 01:00:50,610 just open up our show on Apple podcasts. top right hand corner, 962 01:00:50,610 --> 01:00:54,000 there's a little button. If you click it, it says podcasts have 963 01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:57,660 been paused, turn on automatic downloads hit that it'll help us 964 01:00:57,660 --> 01:01:01,680 out so much. I know Cody is the ultimate champ for everyone 965 01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:04,860 hitting the like button on YouTube. If everyone would go 966 01:01:04,860 --> 01:01:08,550 and do that on podcast, it would help us a ton. Please. Okay, 967 01:01:08,550 --> 01:01:10,350 that was a great conversation. How 968 01:01:10,350 --> 01:01:14,100 Adam Curry: gross is that? How gross is that? Like it's 969 01:01:14,519 --> 01:01:16,979 Dave Jones: yours. But it's basically please please turn on 970 01:01:16,979 --> 01:01:19,739 downloads so that we get downloads candidate whether you 971 01:01:19,739 --> 01:01:20,609 listen or not. Well, 972 01:01:20,609 --> 01:01:23,069 Adam Curry: they're not easy. If you're everybody who's watching 973 01:01:23,069 --> 01:01:29,759 us on YouTube, please. Please commit fraud. Yeah, exactly. And 974 01:01:29,759 --> 01:01:33,779 inflate our numbers. Thank you. DWeb. Thank you. Yeah, exactly. 975 01:01:33,779 --> 01:01:38,369 It's gross. It's gross. Yeah. And that's what everyone's doing 976 01:01:38,369 --> 01:01:41,759 now. Yeah, it makes you turn on automatic downloads. Yeah, 977 01:01:41,759 --> 01:01:42,389 they're 978 01:01:44,220 --> 01:01:47,160 Dave Jones: gross. It's a good it's a nice alternative to 979 01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:52,080 actually doing the real thing. only takes about five minutes is 980 01:01:52,079 --> 01:01:53,969 Adam Curry: an alternative. Yes, it is. 981 01:01:55,590 --> 01:02:00,000 Dave Jones: I think the you know, I was thinking about 982 01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,490 because when I remember you who sat 983 01:02:02,489 --> 01:02:06,539 Adam Curry: back, Stephen be nice. SAS SATs back and love it. 984 01:02:06,599 --> 01:02:07,049 Okay. 985 01:02:08,699 --> 01:02:11,069 Dave Jones: So that your the thing you're doing with Apple 986 01:02:11,069 --> 01:02:17,819 Pay. kit, you know, there's there's this constant sort of, I 987 01:02:17,819 --> 01:02:22,859 don't know, drumbeat of we need to do something other than SATs. 988 01:02:23,789 --> 01:02:29,639 Something with with actual Fiat dollars in in, in the, you know, 989 01:02:29,639 --> 01:02:34,229 the that's? I've got a lot of I mean, that's a lot of thoughts 990 01:02:34,229 --> 01:02:39,299 on that. But really, I was thinking about thinking about 991 01:02:39,299 --> 01:02:44,879 it. And if you're doing if you're enabling Apple Pay. So do 992 01:02:44,879 --> 01:02:49,799 you take? Do you get the do you get a fee for that if you're 993 01:02:49,799 --> 01:02:52,439 paying through Apple Pay? Or does that? Since you're using 994 01:02:52,439 --> 01:02:54,659 Apple Pay? Does it pass through with no fee? 995 01:02:55,469 --> 01:02:59,789 Sam Sethi: No stripe tank 2.9% and 30 cents on every 996 01:02:59,789 --> 01:03:00,509 transaction? 997 01:03:01,980 --> 01:03:03,360 Adam Curry: Do you get airline miles? 998 01:03:05,070 --> 01:03:10,350 Sam Sethi: Should they need to link it? You know, for 999 01:03:10,350 --> 01:03:12,960 transparency, we take one person, that's what we're doing. 1000 01:03:13,020 --> 01:03:16,470 Right? We need to make some micro payment ourselves right 1001 01:03:16,500 --> 01:03:18,120 for feature. So 1002 01:03:18,390 --> 01:03:21,090 Dave Jones: Apple doesn't they don't hit you on that payment? 1003 01:03:21,270 --> 01:03:24,390 Sam Sethi: No, no, we're not even touching Apple, Apple's 30% 1004 01:03:24,390 --> 01:03:29,280 x doesn't affect us at all. So this I couldn't believe when I 1005 01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:32,760 looked at the stripe and it's legit. And you can go and read 1006 01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,370 all the docs and it works. And it's like, wow, this is amazing. 1007 01:03:35,370 --> 01:03:39,150 So you know, we've been cautious about it. So we're limiting it 1008 01:03:39,150 --> 01:03:43,200 now at the moment to $10 or 10 pounds because, you know, we 1009 01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:47,220 don't want to go mad. Sure, there's no limit. There is no 1010 01:03:47,220 --> 01:03:51,120 limit, we've set an arbitrary limit right now. Now, what 1011 01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:55,290 you're gonna say I spoke to EVO Tara about audiobooks. And one 1012 01:03:55,290 --> 01:03:58,860 of the things that we're working on with airhead as well is that 1013 01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:03,150 audio books are a one off purchase potentially. So instead 1014 01:04:03,150 --> 01:04:07,890 of streaming per chapter or episode, they might want to buy 1015 01:04:07,890 --> 01:04:13,080 the book in totality. While in true fans, we show both the SAT 1016 01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:17,310 value per episode and the fear conversion in your local 1017 01:04:17,310 --> 01:04:20,610 currency below it. But as of Monday, because we've been 1018 01:04:20,610 --> 01:04:24,360 working with EVO will show you the total value of that audio 1019 01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:27,960 book. And so now we've got integration to stripe, we can 1020 01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:30,990 offer you pay with that if you've got that in your wallet, 1021 01:04:31,260 --> 01:04:34,440 or pay with fear if you want to as well. So, again, we're going 1022 01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:37,590 to experiment this is early days. But now we've got this 1023 01:04:37,590 --> 01:04:41,010 mechanism of payment both ways. We're going to try seeing what 1024 01:04:41,010 --> 01:04:41,640 we can do with it. 1025 01:04:43,199 --> 01:04:45,389 Dave Jones: Okay, so that that answers some questions then. 1026 01:04:45,989 --> 01:04:50,369 Let's see Nathan says stripe pays apple 2.15% out of their 1027 01:04:50,369 --> 01:04:56,969 cut. Okay. That's a pretty small percentage. Okay, yeah. That was 1028 01:04:56,999 --> 01:05:00,329 that was going to be method if there could be moved I'd bet 1029 01:05:00,329 --> 01:05:05,759 this there could there could be basically a hiding of the hole 1030 01:05:05,939 --> 01:05:11,129 under lying, not hiding in malicious ends, but a, a hiding 1031 01:05:11,129 --> 01:05:16,379 of the, of all the underlying plumbing of this. I mean, I'm 1032 01:05:16,379 --> 01:05:21,179 thinking about strike with a K. And how they do things, 1033 01:05:21,209 --> 01:05:25,979 essentially, you can, you can put money in, move it around, 1034 01:05:26,189 --> 01:05:30,479 the money comes out. And if you don't want to, you never see the 1035 01:05:30,479 --> 01:05:34,079 lightning aspect of that. You never see any of that any of the 1036 01:05:34,079 --> 01:05:38,519 sort of guts. And that really could happen in value for value 1037 01:05:38,519 --> 01:05:43,769 as well. You could say, Okay, I'm going to put money in here 1038 01:05:43,769 --> 01:05:48,599 into my wallet into fans, or fountain or pod verse or 1039 01:05:48,599 --> 01:05:52,349 wherever it is. And then the it just shows up as an ad just as 1040 01:05:52,349 --> 01:05:57,809 always denominated in dollars, then moving that around, like, 1041 01:05:58,139 --> 01:06:04,109 then if you're paying out to the podcaster, it's in dollars main 1042 01:06:04,109 --> 01:06:06,539 cast, thematic kind of already does this a little bit. I had 1043 01:06:06,539 --> 01:06:09,869 Adam Curry: a thought on this. Okay. Which which plays right 1044 01:06:09,869 --> 01:06:14,699 into this, I'm seeing as streaming sat seems to be much 1045 01:06:14,699 --> 01:06:18,269 larger than is really discussed or accounted for because of 1046 01:06:18,269 --> 01:06:22,469 booster grams and the nature of booster grams. The original, the 1047 01:06:22,469 --> 01:06:27,629 original thought behind stream, I think it's if if the UI UX 1048 01:06:27,629 --> 01:06:31,829 experience would change, where instead of how many sets do you 1049 01:06:31,829 --> 01:06:35,009 want to stream per minute? I mean, I mean, I just I'm like, I 1050 01:06:35,009 --> 01:06:38,189 just 200 sets a minute. That's kind of my standard is like, if 1051 01:06:38,189 --> 01:06:42,359 it's something I listen, I have less pleasure. That's 100 sets. 1052 01:06:43,829 --> 01:06:49,259 But the original idea was podcast says, Oh, you're Oh, 1053 01:06:49,259 --> 01:06:51,779 you're subscribed? Me? Do you want to send value for valley? 1054 01:06:51,779 --> 01:06:57,779 Yes, how much per hour $1. And then under the hood, it does all 1055 01:06:57,779 --> 01:07:00,929 those calculations for you, it takes care of all that it may 1056 01:07:00,929 --> 01:07:04,139 have to recalc on an hourly basis, or whatever, based upon 1057 01:07:04,919 --> 01:07:08,789 bitcoin price. But I've always felt that that is something that 1058 01:07:08,789 --> 01:07:12,599 might be kind of the easy side or the remote control. You know, 1059 01:07:12,599 --> 01:07:15,269 what I mean? Like the big buttons, versus the smaller 1060 01:07:15,269 --> 01:07:18,449 buttons and really help people to say, what is the show worth 1061 01:07:18,449 --> 01:07:22,709 to you? Well, it's it's an hourly basis is simple. Oh, it's 1062 01:07:22,709 --> 01:07:25,559 five bucks an hour to me, okay, boom, will take care of the 1063 01:07:25,559 --> 01:07:28,109 rest. And then you can watch it in SAS, you can watch it because 1064 01:07:28,109 --> 01:07:31,409 you know, a certain point. You know, Satoshis, I don't even 1065 01:07:31,409 --> 01:07:36,959 know if you can calculate that low amount on $1. Denominator. 1066 01:07:38,489 --> 01:07:41,519 Dave Jones: Yeah, if I mean, if you're doing that, then you're 1067 01:07:42,809 --> 01:07:45,479 in sec, I don't know, it seems like it kind of simplifies 1068 01:07:45,479 --> 01:07:48,689 things. But without having to, because we know you can't really 1069 01:07:48,689 --> 01:07:52,769 move dollars in that way. It's too clumsy is too costly, you 1070 01:07:52,769 --> 01:07:58,829 can't you just dial the dollar, the banking system doesn't move 1071 01:07:59,279 --> 01:08:03,719 money like that. That's that's just not the way it worked. You 1072 01:08:03,719 --> 01:08:06,479 may have one bank that has something special setup, or even 1073 01:08:06,479 --> 01:08:11,129 a few networks, but it's not universal. You can't go You 1074 01:08:11,129 --> 01:08:18,809 can't go from here to the UK in that fashion. So if you had, but 1075 01:08:18,809 --> 01:08:22,199 you can with lightning. And it just seems like it doesn't 1076 01:08:22,199 --> 01:08:28,649 necessarily have to be it just doesn't have to be now no 1077 01:08:28,649 --> 01:08:31,139 strike. And this gets into the weeds because strike is using 1078 01:08:31,139 --> 01:08:36,239 stable coins and that kind of thing to to facilitate this. But 1079 01:08:36,959 --> 01:08:40,109 I don't know if I feel like there's a there's an opportunity 1080 01:08:40,109 --> 01:08:48,389 to sort of not really not drive people into having to know what 1081 01:08:48,779 --> 01:08:54,299 Bitcoin necessarily is. Yeah, it's a big turnoff. It is and 1082 01:08:54,449 --> 01:08:59,279 in? I mean, honestly, do we know what it mean? If you think about 1083 01:08:59,279 --> 01:09:01,949 what's happening in the Fiat world with with with government 1084 01:09:01,949 --> 01:09:05,849 currencies? I mean, some of that is that's backed by various 1085 01:09:05,879 --> 01:09:08,819 different things. Anyway, some of that some of those things, 1086 01:09:08,849 --> 01:09:11,579 you know, that those are the bank, the banking system runs on 1087 01:09:11,579 --> 01:09:15,689 Treasury bonds and that sort of thing. Magic, it's magic and 1088 01:09:15,689 --> 01:09:21,659 magic, magic, rubber and magic. Yes. And so, I don't know, I'm 1089 01:09:21,659 --> 01:09:24,119 just kind of thinking out loud, because Todd mentioned it at the 1090 01:09:24,119 --> 01:09:28,679 end of Numidia show. And it kind of always comes up. Now, I just 1091 01:09:28,679 --> 01:09:33,419 wonder if there's a way to know because I so in my cast 1092 01:09:33,419 --> 01:09:37,079 thematic, in my experience, my daily driver in when I go to 1093 01:09:37,079 --> 01:09:43,559 deposit some some, some sets in there to boost podcasts. It's 1094 01:09:43,559 --> 01:09:47,819 always in dollars, except at the point when I have to load it. 1095 01:09:48,629 --> 01:09:51,899 And then I have to think about 50 that, you know, 50,000 SATs, 1096 01:09:51,899 --> 01:09:53,669 I'm going to put 100,000 SATs. Well, how much am I going to 1097 01:09:53,669 --> 01:09:58,169 load this up with? And then I don't know it just seems like it 1098 01:09:58,169 --> 01:10:02,459 may be if you're doing Get with Apple Pay or Google Pay, or 1099 01:10:02,459 --> 01:10:05,429 something like that. You wouldn't even have to do that 1100 01:10:05,429 --> 01:10:06,659 part. The 1101 01:10:06,660 --> 01:10:10,380 Adam Curry: genesis of this is a bit of the Bitcoin Max ethos 1102 01:10:10,380 --> 01:10:14,310 when we first started this, there was like, wow, yeah, 1103 01:10:14,310 --> 01:10:16,950 everyone's got to live in a Bitcoin standard, you got to be 1104 01:10:16,950 --> 01:10:21,570 thinking in Satoshis? I do, I literally do. And the way I do 1105 01:10:21,570 --> 01:10:28,020 it is this house would have cost me 60 Bitcoin five years ago, 1106 01:10:28,020 --> 01:10:32,370 and now it would only be for Bitcoin. So I do think in those 1107 01:10:32,370 --> 01:10:37,800 terms, but I'm in 100% agreement that if, if we can, if we have 1108 01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:42,810 an Option, Escape mode, it would bring a lot more people in, and 1109 01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:47,430 particularly this genius, genius hack that Sam has invented. I 1110 01:10:47,430 --> 01:10:51,960 mean, the so my wife and I have a podcast, and it's called 1111 01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:55,680 currying the keeper. And the people who listen the most are 1112 01:10:55,710 --> 01:10:59,310 from our church, and they love listening to it, and every 1113 01:10:59,310 --> 01:11:03,000 single Sunday, and this, they pull out the phone, can you help 1114 01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:07,500 me? I'm trying to figure out how to get these Satoshis into this? 1115 01:11:07,500 --> 01:11:10,770 And is this okay? You know, I'm a little worried about all these 1116 01:11:10,770 --> 01:11:13,710 questions. Who are the who's Moonpig? Who are these people? 1117 01:11:14,220 --> 01:11:17,190 They, they get through it, a lot of them really get through it. 1118 01:11:18,390 --> 01:11:22,560 But man, if I could just say just to press that button for 1119 01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:26,280 Apple Pay or your or your Google Pay? They would they would be 1120 01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:28,260 all over it. Yeah, 1121 01:11:28,290 --> 01:11:30,930 Sam Sethi: I mean, what I'm trying to even get to is why 1122 01:11:30,930 --> 01:11:33,660 they just say, Look, I just want to put 10 pound recurring every 1123 01:11:33,660 --> 01:11:37,410 month into my wallet, we will deal with the SAP payments from 1124 01:11:37,410 --> 01:11:39,930 that, we will do that. 1125 01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:42,720 Adam Curry: Can you do that with Apple Pay, you can set them up 1126 01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:43,500 on a recurring, 1127 01:11:43,740 --> 01:11:47,550 Sam Sethi: recurring, we are implementing that. Beautiful, 1128 01:11:47,550 --> 01:11:50,970 beautiful this is. So this one we're implementing is a payment 1129 01:11:50,970 --> 01:11:51,600 out, by the 1130 01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:53,460 Adam Curry: way didn't want to insinuate the church people are 1131 01:11:53,460 --> 01:11:56,610 dumb. But it's older people. 1132 01:11:57,630 --> 01:12:02,160 Dave Jones: This is the other issue that, you know, I have no 1133 01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:05,070 problem with any of this. I'm experienced with Bitcoin and 1134 01:12:05,070 --> 01:12:09,210 that kind of thing from a long way back. So I was going to pay 1135 01:12:09,210 --> 01:12:14,100 my and did pay my brother in law for doing my taxes this year. 1136 01:12:14,970 --> 01:12:19,140 I'll pay I was gonna pay him in, in Bitcoin, just because he 1137 01:12:19,140 --> 01:12:22,470 didn't have any. And then he was like, Yes, he did. You know, he 1138 01:12:22,470 --> 01:12:23,190 doesn't usually how 1139 01:12:23,190 --> 01:12:25,170 Adam Curry: come? We didn't? How come? We didn't take any bitcoin 1140 01:12:25,170 --> 01:12:30,300 from the podcast index k one. Is this true? Dude, I have to write 1141 01:12:30,300 --> 01:12:33,510 it. I have to write a check to him. That's no good. 1142 01:12:34,020 --> 01:12:37,500 Dave Jones: Yeah, it was like, Hey, he doesn't usually charge 1143 01:12:37,500 --> 01:12:41,010 me at all to do my taxes. And he's just that kind of guy. But 1144 01:12:41,010 --> 01:12:44,370 I was like, Look, I've got to pay you something. I mean, this 1145 01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:47,100 things are getting more complicated. And I was like, let 1146 01:12:47,100 --> 01:12:51,360 just let me give you a couple 100 bucks a bit. Just for fun. 1147 01:12:51,420 --> 01:12:54,270 And he was like, Yeah, okay, listen, this sounds fun. And so 1148 01:12:54,630 --> 01:13:00,060 I said, so I got him to sign up for Cash App. He verified 1149 01:13:00,060 --> 01:13:05,610 himself went through that whole thing. And just because of our 1150 01:13:05,610 --> 01:13:09,180 ad sin in the past Bitcoin to my kids through cash app, and it 1151 01:13:09,180 --> 01:13:13,110 was pretty simple. And I didn't have to get into full full with 1152 01:13:13,470 --> 01:13:19,440 them having some sort of dedicated wallet. And so he 1153 01:13:19,440 --> 01:13:24,120 says, he said, now he gives me his cash app handle. And then I 1154 01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:28,410 say, okay, 200 bucks worth of worth of bitcoin. I'm gonna send 1155 01:13:28,410 --> 01:13:31,290 and I and I said, here send this to them. Well, they rejected it. 1156 01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:37,110 I was like, wait, what? They rejected the transaction. This 1157 01:13:37,110 --> 01:13:40,350 is weird. I mean, I've been I've never had a problem with this 1158 01:13:40,350 --> 01:13:44,670 before. And as like Did did you verify your case? Uh, yeah. Like 1159 01:13:44,670 --> 01:13:46,200 showed him a picture of my job. And I was just 1160 01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:49,170 Adam Curry: because he's a new they thought it was fraud. Yeah, 1161 01:13:49,170 --> 01:13:52,590 Dave Jones: and so I open up a customer service request. And 1162 01:13:52,590 --> 01:13:55,590 I'm like, Hey, I just tried to send some bitcoin and my brother 1163 01:13:55,590 --> 01:13:58,470 in law and rejected it and they said, We cannot help you with 1164 01:13:58,470 --> 01:14:03,960 this. With this, this case is closed. And I was like, Okay, I 1165 01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:08,670 was like, well, can can you give me any indication as to why they 1166 01:14:08,670 --> 01:14:10,860 said I'm sorry, we can't give you any more information this 1167 01:14:10,860 --> 01:14:13,410 case is closed is there anything else we can help you with? They 1168 01:14:13,410 --> 01:14:17,430 will refute would not tell me why it was rejected. Anything 1169 01:14:17,430 --> 01:14:20,070 like that? And I was like, You know what? This sucks. So we 1170 01:14:20,070 --> 01:14:23,850 switched over to strike. And I sent him and it worked fine. But 1171 01:14:23,850 --> 01:14:28,890 this is the problem is that there's if you're dealing in the 1172 01:14:28,890 --> 01:14:35,520 world of Bitcoin, this stuff is not always it just doesn't It 1173 01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:39,750 doesn't just work. There's stuff like this that gets rejected all 1174 01:14:39,750 --> 01:14:43,170 the time. Now this happens in the Fiat world to mean things 1175 01:14:43,170 --> 01:14:47,340 get rejected. We know PayPal does weird things that not this 1176 01:14:47,340 --> 01:14:51,210 doesn't always go smooth there either. But when you're in the 1177 01:14:51,210 --> 01:14:56,310 Bitcoin world, it just seems unnecessarily convoluted. And, 1178 01:14:56,430 --> 01:15:00,180 and I think I just think there's a real opportunity here for that 1179 01:15:00,180 --> 01:15:00,840 to change. 1180 01:15:02,850 --> 01:15:03,690 Adam Curry: Yeah, I'm with you. 1181 01:15:05,339 --> 01:15:08,669 Dave Jones: Because you, because, I mean, it was it was 1182 01:15:08,669 --> 01:15:11,729 frustrating. The trips are trying to get through that. And 1183 01:15:11,729 --> 01:15:13,949 if you have somebody who you're trying to guide through that 1184 01:15:13,949 --> 01:15:16,919 process as a podcast listener and they hit a wall like that, 1185 01:15:17,429 --> 01:15:20,969 they're just done. I mean, like, I don't have time for this. 1186 01:15:21,389 --> 01:15:26,519 Life's busy. You know that it's just, yeah, no, no, just there's 1187 01:15:26,519 --> 01:15:27,449 something to think about. 1188 01:15:33,510 --> 01:15:38,040 Adam Curry: Sam, hello, hello. How many wines have you had? 1189 01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:43,170 Sam Sethi: In teetotal? Since LA? So? What's wrong with you? 1190 01:15:43,890 --> 01:15:46,740 Oh, fat boy, Sam over here. I've been told to lose. 1191 01:15:49,530 --> 01:15:53,280 Adam Curry: Fat Boy Slim brother. Nice. Yep. Okay, 1192 01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:56,010 version. Do you want to talk? activity streams? 1193 01:15:57,420 --> 01:16:00,690 Sam Sethi: Yeah, let's do that. I'd also if we get time likes 1194 01:16:00,690 --> 01:16:02,040 talking about the medium tag? 1195 01:16:02,070 --> 01:16:04,140 Adam Curry: Well, let's do it. Let's do medium to medium first, 1196 01:16:04,140 --> 01:16:04,290 let's 1197 01:16:04,290 --> 01:16:06,090 Dave Jones: do medium that said on my notes. Anyway, that's a 1198 01:16:06,090 --> 01:16:08,190 Adam Curry: broad, it's a broader, and I have something 1199 01:16:08,190 --> 01:16:10,560 for that, too. It's broader, medium tag. 1200 01:16:10,590 --> 01:16:15,330 Sam Sethi: Okay. So I think the medium tag is a real opportunity 1201 01:16:15,330 --> 01:16:19,620 for all of the podcasting, Tito apps and hosts to extend beyond 1202 01:16:19,620 --> 01:16:23,970 just podcasting. Agree. And we've seen Spotify announced 1203 01:16:23,970 --> 01:16:28,080 courses, and audio books and all sorts of things, right. And I 1204 01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:31,260 feel we're not taking advantage of the technology that we've 1205 01:16:31,260 --> 01:16:35,370 already invented. So on true fans, as an example, we already 1206 01:16:35,370 --> 01:16:37,560 support all the current mediums. And I've been working in the 1207 01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:41,130 background with Michael wave leg. And I've been talking to 1208 01:16:41,130 --> 01:16:44,880 Patrick at this, def topia, and I want to talk to Davi Das, and 1209 01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:49,110 Oscar and everyone else. So tonight, we literally did it, we 1210 01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:53,370 created a brand new music category list. wavelike started 1211 01:16:53,370 --> 01:16:56,970 it, and it's very extensive. And I want to share that out. And 1212 01:16:56,970 --> 01:17:00,510 what we do is when we see medium equals music, we switch the 1213 01:17:00,510 --> 01:17:03,570 category list from the Apple category list to the wavelet 1214 01:17:03,570 --> 01:17:07,290 category list. Now wavelength is now allowing all of their 1215 01:17:07,290 --> 01:17:12,690 artists to self define their genre. And so what that's good 1216 01:17:12,690 --> 01:17:16,410 for us is that we are now seeing only a couple of that we've 1217 01:17:16,440 --> 01:17:19,680 started tonight, but we're seeing now a couple of artists 1218 01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:23,280 are now saying I'm r&b and rock and soul or whatever. Of course, 1219 01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:26,580 they're all clickable. So now you can go and get discovery on 1220 01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:30,390 the categories. So we're bypassing the apple category 1221 01:17:30,390 --> 01:17:33,120 list, which isn't ever going to be extended, and creating a 1222 01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:37,020 specific music category lesson that's just using music equal 1223 01:17:37,440 --> 01:17:40,980 medium equals music. And then this week, I spoke to airhead 1224 01:17:41,040 --> 01:17:45,930 and to EVO about audiobooks, so we have name equals audiobooks. 1225 01:17:46,440 --> 01:17:50,460 And, you know, we have episodic and serial, so that all works in 1226 01:17:50,460 --> 01:17:56,340 the process. And so we did a test and we've now got 1227 01:17:56,970 --> 01:18:01,860 audiobooks from EVO in true fans and Airheads got a massive 1228 01:18:01,860 --> 01:18:06,300 library of them as well. And what happened was we created a 1229 01:18:06,330 --> 01:18:09,360 publisher feed for books so it's live, you can go in and look at 1230 01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:12,300 it, it's already on there in true fans. And so we've been 1231 01:18:12,300 --> 01:18:17,250 able to use the medium tag to extend to courses with POD home 1232 01:18:17,280 --> 01:18:20,850 Barry is doing it is supporting that medium equals courses. 1233 01:18:20,850 --> 01:18:27,150 We've got music, we're Davi das and wavelike and dystopias that 1234 01:18:27,510 --> 01:18:32,730 we are beginning to see if the hosts would support the medium 1235 01:18:32,730 --> 01:18:37,560 tag beyond just podcast as a default, that we could extend as 1236 01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:43,050 a group to much more quicker, but they're not doing it for the 1237 01:18:43,140 --> 01:18:47,400 Adam Curry: for the D MU people who are very dear to me, will 1238 01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:52,500 wave Lake if they are maintaining the the tag 1239 01:18:52,500 --> 01:18:58,230 repository? Will they allow other other music hosts to also 1240 01:18:58,500 --> 01:19:00,450 add to that list? Yes. 1241 01:19:00,480 --> 01:19:03,300 Sam Sethi: And they don't want to retain the list. They've got 1242 01:19:03,300 --> 01:19:06,090 it on a GitHub right now. Good. And they want to share that out. 1243 01:19:06,780 --> 01:19:10,470 And I think where it lives, it could be on the PSP. It could be 1244 01:19:10,470 --> 01:19:13,800 anywhere right? Yeah, it's not owned by wave lake. They are 1245 01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:17,070 well aware of that. But they they've done a really good job 1246 01:19:17,070 --> 01:19:20,490 of creating an extensive list. I think that's a good starting 1247 01:19:20,490 --> 01:19:21,630 point. So yeah. 1248 01:19:22,500 --> 01:19:24,720 Adam Curry: Excellent. I love it. I think it's a great idea. 1249 01:19:25,500 --> 01:19:29,730 Dave Jones: So if you have Okay, so this is a good discussion 1250 01:19:29,790 --> 01:19:35,460 that there was this idea of having a different list of 1251 01:19:35,460 --> 01:19:39,660 categories or visit a different genre category keyword list for 1252 01:19:40,020 --> 01:19:43,230 for each medium, and this fits right into that because they 1253 01:19:43,230 --> 01:19:46,950 really don't, they don't cross pollinate at all in any 1254 01:19:46,950 --> 01:19:51,600 meaningful way. A music a music genres are really not going to 1255 01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:57,030 touch audio books at all. Pierre so so it makes sense to have 1256 01:19:57,030 --> 01:19:59,100 different repositories 1257 01:19:59,100 --> 01:20:01,170 Adam Curry: from different mediums Types. Yeah, 1258 01:20:01,170 --> 01:20:03,240 Dave Jones: and these are countries like, as we discussed 1259 01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:05,700 on the GitHub, there's like controlled, you know, what they 1260 01:20:05,700 --> 01:20:09,120 call controlled vocabularies, where you say, well, here's, 1261 01:20:09,270 --> 01:20:13,530 here's the things that are the most common things that you 1262 01:20:13,530 --> 01:20:16,320 start with. So if as you're searching to add a tag, 1263 01:20:16,500 --> 01:20:19,800 autocomplete thing to help you autocomplete Yeah, and then as 1264 01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:23,520 you and if it's if you just if the thing you're doing is truly 1265 01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:26,220 unique and doesn't fit into a pre existing tag, you just add 1266 01:20:26,220 --> 01:20:30,090 that and it's fine. But like I do, I do think there's, there's 1267 01:20:30,090 --> 01:20:34,740 some, I don't know whether that needs to be defined somewhere. 1268 01:20:34,740 --> 01:20:39,900 Or if that's purely just a per platform thing, where the 1269 01:20:39,900 --> 01:20:43,500 platform is just No, I mean, we can document it and say, Okay, 1270 01:20:43,500 --> 01:20:46,230 for the, if the medium equals Music, 1271 01:20:47,310 --> 01:20:50,430 Sam Sethi: start with this this already, Dave, we have a 1272 01:20:50,460 --> 01:20:55,200 taxonomy for the person tag right. beyond what we did, it 1273 01:20:55,200 --> 01:20:58,650 was created by a third party group. And when you add the 1274 01:20:58,650 --> 01:21:02,670 person tag, you look at that taxonomy, as a defined list. 1275 01:21:03,480 --> 01:21:06,390 That list is now static, and it needs to be updated. But 1276 01:21:06,630 --> 01:21:09,480 fundamentally, that's what we work off. And we have the same 1277 01:21:09,480 --> 01:21:12,630 one with Apple categories. It's a defined list, and we will work 1278 01:21:12,630 --> 01:21:16,740 off it. So I think we as a group can then say, Okay, well for the 1279 01:21:16,740 --> 01:21:20,490 extended categories for audio books, and music, and film and 1280 01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:24,120 courses. And whatever else we want to add, we know we want, if 1281 01:21:24,120 --> 01:21:27,330 you want me to talk about events, as well, but the whole 1282 01:21:27,330 --> 01:21:31,560 thing can have a very simple and it's easy to do, because all you 1283 01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:34,980 do is look in the feed for medium equals and then you pull 1284 01:21:34,980 --> 01:21:38,730 in the category for it. Now, a lot of people want free form. 1285 01:21:38,790 --> 01:21:43,020 And that's fine, you've got a key word listing within the RSS 1286 01:21:43,020 --> 01:21:46,590 feed. And that can be user generated by the No, if you want 1287 01:21:46,590 --> 01:21:50,430 to enhance or add to that defined category lists as a 1288 01:21:50,430 --> 01:21:53,970 individual podcast creator, we'll put them in the keyword. 1289 01:21:54,060 --> 01:21:57,360 And that's fine, we will look at the keyword for additional 1290 01:21:58,290 --> 01:22:00,180 listings that you want to be known for. 1291 01:22:01,470 --> 01:22:04,230 Dave Jones: Yeah, and I think that can just be thinking about 1292 01:22:04,230 --> 01:22:07,140 where to put it in the namespace definition, it could just be in 1293 01:22:07,140 --> 01:22:11,940 the medium tag, a reference to where those two those lists. 1294 01:22:12,420 --> 01:22:16,620 Say, here's here's the list for this, for this tag, start with 1295 01:22:16,620 --> 01:22:19,230 this list for this text, em or for this medium, start with this 1296 01:22:19,230 --> 01:22:22,620 list, blah, blah, blah. And then where the lists are the 1297 01:22:22,620 --> 01:22:26,430 definition of the way the listings work, could be some, 1298 01:22:26,460 --> 01:22:30,570 you know, that that would live somewhere else. So like, the 1299 01:22:30,570 --> 01:22:36,900 tags, the TAT, the the categories tag, can define the 1300 01:22:36,900 --> 01:22:40,260 behavior of, of the categories and the way they're defined in 1301 01:22:40,260 --> 01:22:45,960 the feed. And then the medium tag defines which category lists 1302 01:22:45,990 --> 01:22:49,710 go with each medium, to anything. I think that all makes 1303 01:22:49,710 --> 01:22:52,710 sense. I'm looking at you're looking at true fans at the 1304 01:22:52,710 --> 01:22:56,280 audio books. I'm looking at Seventh Son Book Three 1305 01:22:56,280 --> 01:22:58,380 destruction, and click 1306 01:22:58,380 --> 01:23:02,640 Sam Sethi: on click on that. And then you'll see just below the 1307 01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:06,630 title in the next page, you'll see published by Scible. 1308 01:23:06,750 --> 01:23:11,070 Scribble. Scribble. Yes, yeah, click on scribble. That is an 1309 01:23:11,130 --> 01:23:15,390 audio book publisher page. So it's a publisher feed for 1310 01:23:15,510 --> 01:23:19,230 scribble based on the audio books that they have. So that 1311 01:23:19,230 --> 01:23:20,490 was a test we did with Evo. 1312 01:23:21,150 --> 01:23:23,550 Dave Jones: Yeah. And I see Evos here as the person tag is the 1313 01:23:23,550 --> 01:23:26,940 booking coordinator. Yeah, we just did is a very quickly. 1314 01:23:27,060 --> 01:23:30,210 Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. So like, so here's the question, 1315 01:23:30,210 --> 01:23:38,340 though. The biggest gripe about audiobooks in podcast apps is 1316 01:23:38,340 --> 01:23:44,160 the order of the episodes. Right now see that the order is, is 1317 01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:47,220 being chronological, new to old? Yeah, 1318 01:23:47,790 --> 01:23:50,100 Sam Sethi: yeah. So we know that's a bug. And we're fixing 1319 01:23:50,100 --> 01:23:54,630 that. So although in the RSS feed, we correctly read cereal, 1320 01:23:54,750 --> 01:23:58,500 rather than episodic. What we did was we didn't change the UI, 1321 01:23:58,530 --> 01:24:01,560 because we haven't had a reason to up until now. So we are 1322 01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:05,370 changing it to be based on the series and episode numbers 1323 01:24:05,370 --> 01:24:08,280 rather than the date chronology, which is what we've done in the 1324 01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:09,630 past. And 1325 01:24:09,780 --> 01:24:14,100 Dave Jones: are you going to see that in here's, like you said, 1326 01:24:14,100 --> 01:24:17,550 this is where there's, there's this is where it's fertile soil 1327 01:24:17,550 --> 01:24:23,670 as a greenfield because and getting a good looking UI where 1328 01:24:23,670 --> 01:24:30,210 it feels like you're in an audio book app. Is is that's a that's 1329 01:24:30,210 --> 01:24:33,300 a game changer. As soon as you have that it feels good people 1330 01:24:33,300 --> 01:24:37,350 start like I listened to tons of audiobooks like the last couple 1331 01:24:37,350 --> 01:24:40,950 of weeks, I've listened have completed probably for 1332 01:24:40,950 --> 01:24:48,360 audiobooks. My my heavy audible user, and if I had been if I had 1333 01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:53,520 a killer app for audiobooks for podcasting, a podcast based 1334 01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:57,000 audio book medium, I would be a heavy user of that, but it's got 1335 01:24:57,000 --> 01:24:59,820 to feel like the feel is everything. It's got to feel 1336 01:24:59,820 --> 01:25:02,760 right I agree with the WaveLight guys in this, because they were 1337 01:25:02,760 --> 01:25:07,440 really sensitive to the feel of the app and making sure that it 1338 01:25:07,440 --> 01:25:10,800 was a good experience, it felt that make sure you felt like 1339 01:25:11,160 --> 01:25:16,560 that the podcast app felt like a music app. And that that's a big 1340 01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:20,730 deal. It's a bigger deal than we, then we may think, because 1341 01:25:20,730 --> 01:25:23,580 then you go to use it. And it can become frustrating because 1342 01:25:23,580 --> 01:25:25,770 you don't know how to get everything in the right order. 1343 01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:29,160 And you shouldn't have to kind of tinker around with it and get 1344 01:25:29,160 --> 01:25:31,500 to get it to play right, it should just be it should just be 1345 01:25:31,500 --> 01:25:33,030 right from the beginning. You know, 1346 01:25:34,980 --> 01:25:40,710 Adam Curry: on the medium tag front, I have a remark and a 1347 01:25:40,710 --> 01:25:46,500 suggestion and business for anybody who wants to do it. I 1348 01:25:46,500 --> 01:25:50,970 was reading a post which showed up on podcast index dot social 1349 01:25:50,970 --> 01:25:57,690 from polymesh. I'm not sure who that is. Polly mash wrote a post 1350 01:25:58,050 --> 01:26:01,500 is a no equipment podcast feasible with synthetic voice 1351 01:26:01,500 --> 01:26:07,230 technology. And it was a whole thing about I should just be 1352 01:26:07,230 --> 01:26:09,630 able to type it in and the podcast and I don't need to 1353 01:26:09,630 --> 01:26:13,740 bring any gear don't need to do anything. And it'll just create 1354 01:26:13,740 --> 01:26:16,920 this podcast. And I can do it from anywhere. I can just kind 1355 01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:21,240 of script it out and it'll work and it'll be beautiful. And then 1356 01:26:21,810 --> 01:26:24,240 the bottom was like, I know, a lot of diehards will hate this. 1357 01:26:24,450 --> 01:26:29,580 And I thought to myself, whoa, this is actually the reverse. 1358 01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:39,330 What if medium equals blog was used for web blogs. And that 1359 01:26:39,330 --> 01:26:43,380 your app would it now this is assuming that one day this 1360 01:26:43,380 --> 01:26:47,010 magical AI technology will really work and you'll have a 1361 01:26:47,010 --> 01:26:51,780 voice that will sound so natural, it'll trick me. But 1362 01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:56,850 that your podcast app can subscribe to a blog, or a sub 1363 01:26:56,850 --> 01:26:59,400 stack may even be more appropriate just to start with. 1364 01:27:00,060 --> 01:27:04,680 And in the morning, I said that on purpose, you'll get a new 1365 01:27:04,680 --> 01:27:11,040 podcast and it will be a blog or just keep a sub stack on RSS 1366 01:27:11,610 --> 01:27:15,690 that is then read to you by your podcast app in a voice that is 1367 01:27:15,690 --> 01:27:19,500 comfortable to you the way you like the pacing. You could set 1368 01:27:19,500 --> 01:27:22,380 the format read this energetically read this with a 1369 01:27:22,380 --> 01:27:26,670 doom voice, etc, etc. And I just wanted to throw that out there 1370 01:27:26,670 --> 01:27:30,450 for those interested in AI. If that actually gets to be 1371 01:27:30,450 --> 01:27:33,180 something at some point, I think that would work. And 1372 01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:37,350 subsequently, I thought to myself, I should probably start 1373 01:27:37,350 --> 01:27:42,540 a business where I pay people these millions of podcasters to 1374 01:27:42,540 --> 01:27:47,190 read popular posts from people for a fee, which could be value 1375 01:27:47,190 --> 01:27:52,020 for value. I asked I asked her I said hey, what do you read the 1376 01:27:52,020 --> 01:27:56,190 more conservative Treehouse was one answer, which is a very, you 1377 01:27:56,190 --> 01:27:59,700 know, political right wing. You could also say, Politico, I 1378 01:27:59,700 --> 01:28:02,610 mean, it doesn't matter, right wing, left wing, if you got that 1379 01:28:02,610 --> 01:28:06,540 in the morning, and you could just listen to it with a voice. 1380 01:28:06,870 --> 01:28:09,480 A comfortable voice read that to you. Oh, yeah. Oh, I'd love 1381 01:28:09,480 --> 01:28:13,560 that. So I'm just throwing that out as a business idea. 1382 01:28:14,490 --> 01:28:17,070 Sam Sethi: Have a look at startups daily, I met the guy, 1383 01:28:17,580 --> 01:28:21,990 Podcast Movement in LA. And he's basically it's not quite the 1384 01:28:21,990 --> 01:28:27,420 blog, or substack. But he's taking a article, and he's 1385 01:28:27,420 --> 01:28:31,290 turning that article into an AI voice, and then putting out a 15 1386 01:28:31,290 --> 01:28:32,130 minute daily show. 1387 01:28:32,370 --> 01:28:34,350 Adam Curry: Obviously, the thing I don't like about that, though, 1388 01:28:34,350 --> 01:28:38,730 is that it's very difficult to satisfy everybody. If I have 1389 01:28:38,730 --> 01:28:44,250 control over the voice in my app. Now you're talking like I 1390 01:28:44,250 --> 01:28:47,850 want a woman to read this I want I want it to be this, this 1391 01:28:47,850 --> 01:28:51,570 pacing I want et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I don't think 1392 01:28:51,600 --> 01:28:55,350 AI will actually get there where people like it that much. I 1393 01:28:55,350 --> 01:28:59,520 can't stand AI voice books. I've tried those like I can't it's 1394 01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:01,920 just it's too robotic. 1395 01:29:02,700 --> 01:29:07,140 Dave Jones: Anyway, use. I have used it though. Like once. I 1396 01:29:07,140 --> 01:29:12,660 didn't think I ever would. But I was I was in the gym. And I was 1397 01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:15,900 there was this long article, gosh, this this article was like 1398 01:29:15,900 --> 01:29:21,000 6000 words long article that I was trying to get through. And I 1399 01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:24,390 just read I really wanted to get through this thing and I'll and 1400 01:29:24,390 --> 01:29:29,370 I did the like read it to me function on the iPhone and just 1401 01:29:29,760 --> 01:29:32,790 lit and I knew it was gonna get stuff wrong. And he was gonna 1402 01:29:32,790 --> 01:29:35,190 mispronounce stuff. And I was like, you know, it's it got more 1403 01:29:35,190 --> 01:29:38,580 important and, and it was fine. I mean, it was it was mostly 1404 01:29:38,580 --> 01:29:43,260 okay. You know, yes, it gets stuff wrong. But, but he was 1405 01:29:43,260 --> 01:29:46,680 able to figure it out, you know, and it worked for me. Here's, 1406 01:29:46,710 --> 01:29:49,860 Adam Curry: here's the two thoughts about that. So if you 1407 01:29:49,860 --> 01:29:55,770 could control the voice yourself. And I believe it would 1408 01:29:55,770 --> 01:30:03,750 belong in medium equals blog. A medium was, you know, type mp3 1409 01:30:03,780 --> 01:30:08,370 or whatever. So that, you know, so you know it's an mp3. Well, 1410 01:30:08,370 --> 01:30:13,470 two things. One, we said, I said the same thing about mp3, ah, 1411 01:30:13,470 --> 01:30:16,470 it's such a degradation of quality. No one will listen to 1412 01:30:16,470 --> 01:30:19,590 music like this. It's horrible. It's sucks if the encoding is 1413 01:30:19,590 --> 01:30:24,030 bad, no one cared. Everybody know, we're so used to 1414 01:30:24,030 --> 01:30:27,420 listening. I mean, I do this, this, this podcast and 96 1415 01:30:27,420 --> 01:30:31,890 kilobits per second is low. No one really cared, it didn't 1416 01:30:31,890 --> 01:30:34,740 matter, everyone you know, and they've tried all the high, the 1417 01:30:34,740 --> 01:30:37,560 high end, high quality, those things really don't work out 1418 01:30:37,560 --> 01:30:40,470 that well, that's really for people who have, you know, 1419 01:30:40,500 --> 01:30:43,380 people with earbuds generally don't care about the mp3 1420 01:30:43,380 --> 01:30:47,340 quality. The second thing I like about this is if it could be in 1421 01:30:47,340 --> 01:30:52,680 the podcast app. And this is a way for writers, blog writers, 1422 01:30:52,710 --> 01:30:57,840 Article writers to participate in value for value. That I think 1423 01:30:57,840 --> 01:31:02,190 would be the big the big revolution. Because everybody 1424 01:31:02,190 --> 01:31:06,210 wants to get paid for their for their blog work. Well, I think 1425 01:31:06,210 --> 01:31:10,530 that there's a lot of people, but just my my little bit of 1426 01:31:10,530 --> 01:31:14,370 market research, most people would be very willing to listen 1427 01:31:14,370 --> 01:31:18,090 to a blog post or an article instead of read it. 1428 01:31:19,830 --> 01:31:25,620 Dave Jones: Do you? Do you have any plans to support the medium 1429 01:31:25,620 --> 01:31:28,110 equals blog? On truth? 1430 01:31:29,040 --> 01:31:31,830 Sam Sethi: I think you've seen it already. Dave, when you go to 1431 01:31:31,830 --> 01:31:36,060 our feedback, and you can see the blog, we've we've done zaps. 1432 01:31:36,330 --> 01:31:41,160 We've done, boost comments, and then you can pay, you get paid 1433 01:31:41,460 --> 01:31:44,430 every time you give us a bug report or a feedback or a 1434 01:31:45,330 --> 01:31:49,260 suggestion. And in the blog, we've actually just put comments 1435 01:31:49,260 --> 01:31:52,620 there and with with payment, but when it's not been designed 1436 01:31:52,650 --> 01:31:56,550 exactly to what you're talking about, we didn't have that plan. 1437 01:31:57,360 --> 01:32:00,600 But I don't see any reason why. Because it's RSS why you 1438 01:32:00,600 --> 01:32:03,210 couldn't do it in the same way. But no, we haven't done it 1439 01:32:03,210 --> 01:32:03,960 specifically. 1440 01:32:04,620 --> 01:32:09,240 Dave Jones: Because I mean, I can I would love to have you 1441 01:32:09,240 --> 01:32:12,720 know, that's it's it's funny this, this is actually a bigger 1442 01:32:12,720 --> 01:32:14,490 deal than I thought when I first heard you talking about it, 1443 01:32:14,490 --> 01:32:19,410 because I would love to have that. Have my podcast app be my 1444 01:32:19,410 --> 01:32:20,970 RSS reader? Yes. 1445 01:32:21,030 --> 01:32:24,540 Adam Curry: Well, that's it's exactly the same thing. I would, 1446 01:32:24,720 --> 01:32:28,440 I would use it all day long. And I think I could probably get 1447 01:32:28,440 --> 01:32:34,290 used to a crappy voice or a synthetic voice the same way I 1448 01:32:34,290 --> 01:32:37,830 got used to NP threes. Are you kidding me? I would love and 1449 01:32:37,830 --> 01:32:42,030 people. I mean reading I hate to say it but you know, reading is 1450 01:32:42,030 --> 01:32:47,520 kind of less of a thing these days. And, and listening. And by 1451 01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:49,680 the way, you can still have the transcript running along all 1452 01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:53,670 kinds of good stuff like that. I really think that it would take 1453 01:32:53,670 --> 01:32:57,210 off. I mean, I know. I know people's Oh yeah. If I could 1454 01:32:57,210 --> 01:33:01,350 just listen to this article that comes out every day or sometimes 1455 01:33:01,350 --> 01:33:04,470 twice a day, when I'm doing my makeup, not saying it's teen on 1456 01:33:04,470 --> 01:33:09,360 or anything. You know that would that would work and value for 1457 01:33:09,360 --> 01:33:12,990 value. Sure. Happy to compensate that way. 1458 01:33:13,590 --> 01:33:16,920 Sam Sethi: So we we know publisher feeds take a news feed 1459 01:33:16,920 --> 01:33:20,910 from James and we filter it by the name of the publisher. So we 1460 01:33:20,910 --> 01:33:24,300 take an RSS feed from pod News Daily. And if you're on one 1461 01:33:24,300 --> 01:33:28,080 Drees publisher feed, we will show you a tab which has news 1462 01:33:28,080 --> 01:33:31,470 related to wandering so that it's not an RSS reader Dave, but 1463 01:33:31,470 --> 01:33:37,500 it is a filtered RSS feed based on the name of the publisher. 1464 01:33:38,970 --> 01:33:41,790 Dave Jones: That's interesting. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I think I 1465 01:33:41,790 --> 01:33:44,910 think that just it just feels like it feels like a greenfield 1466 01:33:44,910 --> 01:33:49,230 to me. Yeah. You know, because it, they they're just not, 1467 01:33:49,380 --> 01:33:52,830 they're just not that much different. If you think about 1468 01:33:52,830 --> 01:33:58,350 it, I mean, it's content in well, everything is some so I 1469 01:33:58,350 --> 01:34:03,540 think it's part of partly that. That thing of raw that Rob and 1470 01:34:03,540 --> 01:34:07,140 Todd talked about, were they ever raised like everybody is 1471 01:34:08,220 --> 01:34:12,780 talking about video. When everybody in an industry in an 1472 01:34:12,780 --> 01:34:16,200 ad supported industry is talking about one thing it usually means 1473 01:34:16,200 --> 01:34:17,880 you probably want to go the other way. 1474 01:34:20,580 --> 01:34:22,470 Adam Curry: The Adam curry rule of technology. 1475 01:34:23,040 --> 01:34:25,770 Dave Jones: Yeah. So if everybody's talking about video, 1476 01:34:25,770 --> 01:34:31,290 maybe the actual correct thing to do is even less Yeah, even 1477 01:34:31,290 --> 01:34:36,870 less media, you know, friend, even even like non non 1478 01:34:36,870 --> 01:34:38,340 multimedia go to text. I 1479 01:34:38,340 --> 01:34:41,460 Adam Curry: mean, Apple Apple. I'm sure Google has same thing. 1480 01:34:41,460 --> 01:34:45,000 But Apple has all kinds of voice since its synthesis on board, 1481 01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:46,650 you can tie into those libraries. 1482 01:34:48,780 --> 01:34:52,260 Dave Jones: Yeah, and like I said, it was it was a it was a 1483 01:34:52,260 --> 01:34:55,050 fun experience. And I chose the voice I wanted and and like I 1484 01:34:55,050 --> 01:34:58,290 said it was fine. It was fine. And I'm sure the Google version 1485 01:34:58,290 --> 01:34:59,010 of that's the same 1486 01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:03,390 Adam Curry: it was fine and And it's still a podcast. It's just 1487 01:35:03,390 --> 01:35:03,750 an art. 1488 01:35:03,780 --> 01:35:07,230 Dave Jones: I mean, like these are, I mean, they're just posts 1489 01:35:07,230 --> 01:35:12,090 and articles. They're not. I mean, you're not expecting, I 1490 01:35:12,090 --> 01:35:15,240 guess, you it's different than 1491 01:35:15,270 --> 01:35:18,060 Adam Curry: the bar is low, the quality of the expectation is 1492 01:35:18,060 --> 01:35:20,070 low. Yeah. Because 1493 01:35:20,070 --> 01:35:22,170 Dave Jones: you're half, you know, you're rushing to get 1494 01:35:22,170 --> 01:35:23,460 through that thing anyway. 1495 01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:26,640 Adam Curry: And how about this, see, once we get there, if we 1496 01:35:26,640 --> 01:35:34,230 ever do, I will pay extra to have Adam curry read this to me, 1497 01:35:35,610 --> 01:35:39,060 though, I will pay and you're just like, just like we had the 1498 01:35:39,090 --> 01:35:42,120 that was, it was a big thing back in the day where you could 1499 01:35:42,330 --> 01:35:47,850 change the voice on your GPS navigation, or celebrity voices. 1500 01:35:50,460 --> 01:35:53,910 That could be an extra feature. I'm available, by the way. 1501 01:35:57,510 --> 01:35:59,190 Dave Jones: Cuz speak to me age, 1502 01:36:00,930 --> 01:36:05,010 Adam Curry: value for value. It all fits in the I would just 1503 01:36:05,010 --> 01:36:09,630 love to get writers into this value ecosystem. And I 1504 01:36:09,630 --> 01:36:13,050 appreciate what you're doing Sam with, with the zaps and the 1505 01:36:13,050 --> 01:36:16,590 comment boost and everything. But this is such a non brainer. 1506 01:36:16,590 --> 01:36:21,780 And if if AI really is so good, I mean, my goodness, James, 1507 01:36:21,900 --> 01:36:25,950 every five episodes of pod news weekly review. He's like, Oh, 1508 01:36:25,950 --> 01:36:30,480 Bob, and he plays a synthesized voice. And says, well, it still 1509 01:36:30,480 --> 01:36:34,950 sucks. But you know, it's out there. Clearly, people are doing 1510 01:36:34,950 --> 01:36:39,120 it. But they're doing it the wrong way around. There's more 1511 01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:41,850 content in the written word than you could ever imagine just 1512 01:36:41,850 --> 01:36:46,200 waiting to be synthesized and delivered to podcast apps. 1513 01:36:46,890 --> 01:36:51,810 Dave Jones: And honestly, the best. I'm gonna bro I'm gonna 1514 01:36:51,810 --> 01:36:56,940 broad brush this, you know, but the best content right now? 1515 01:36:57,240 --> 01:37:02,910 Probably is written. Sure. I mean, there's a there's a lot of 1516 01:37:02,910 --> 01:37:07,410 people that are writing a lot. And I'm not sure why. As far as 1517 01:37:07,410 --> 01:37:11,280 like a renaissance of that, but there's a lot of a lot of people 1518 01:37:11,280 --> 01:37:15,210 writing that there's a lot of good content out there that if 1519 01:37:15,270 --> 01:37:20,010 that I find that I'm I miss if I just get sucked fully into 1520 01:37:20,010 --> 01:37:21,030 podcast world. 1521 01:37:23,100 --> 01:37:25,290 Adam Curry: But you can also multitask you know, when when 1522 01:37:25,290 --> 01:37:29,340 it's being read to you. I mean, how often the only my wife and I 1523 01:37:29,340 --> 01:37:32,640 read stuff to each other all the time in the morning. There's Oh, 1524 01:37:32,640 --> 01:37:33,510 let me read this to you. 1525 01:37:35,430 --> 01:37:39,810 Dave Jones: Yeah, and the one thing that Tybee does that I 1526 01:37:39,810 --> 01:37:45,930 think is cool is that he pays a guy to read to read his posts. 1527 01:37:45,930 --> 01:37:49,770 Yeah. And he has a feed an RSS feed of that. Yeah, it's like 1528 01:37:49,770 --> 01:37:52,770 here, I'm gonna, I'm gonna write my stuff. And then there's going 1529 01:37:52,770 --> 01:37:55,650 to be a narrator that narrates each post, and they usually come 1530 01:37:55,650 --> 01:37:59,400 out. The posts come out a couple, sometimes a week or two 1531 01:37:59,400 --> 01:38:04,230 after the original post piece was written. But I find that 1532 01:38:04,230 --> 01:38:08,670 wonderful because I now I don't have to there it is read the 1533 01:38:08,670 --> 01:38:11,310 stuff to hit some new mailbox. 1534 01:38:11,340 --> 01:38:13,650 Adam Curry: Yeah, you just confirmed it. I 1535 01:38:13,650 --> 01:38:15,480 Dave Jones: just wait for it. I just wait for the podcast 1536 01:38:15,720 --> 01:38:20,610 version. And then I have a specific playlist just for that 1537 01:38:20,940 --> 01:38:25,200 feed. And when I get ready to hear those headlines and read 1538 01:38:25,200 --> 01:38:28,860 and have those articles written to me read to me. I just hit 1539 01:38:28,860 --> 01:38:31,440 that play list. And I start and I just start at the top and go 1540 01:38:31,440 --> 01:38:37,290 down it's a it's an idea. It's a good idea. It's a good idea. 1541 01:38:38,010 --> 01:38:39,930 Like we need more of those more ideas. 1542 01:38:39,930 --> 01:38:42,480 Adam Curry: Yeah, should we take a little break play some music? 1543 01:38:43,170 --> 01:38:43,380 I'd 1544 01:38:43,380 --> 01:38:46,560 Dave Jones: love it. If Sam choose this 1545 01:38:46,620 --> 01:38:52,020 Adam Curry: to know Sam didn't do that. I'm sorry. I didn't ask 1546 01:38:52,020 --> 01:38:56,310 you. I'm sorry. At least I got your wallet. I got that part. 1547 01:38:56,310 --> 01:38:59,940 Right. Well this is it was fortuitous. As I'm like oh we 1548 01:38:59,940 --> 01:39:02,940 should play a song and before I even thought of asking Sam. I 1549 01:39:02,940 --> 01:39:05,460 went to the split kit and saw right at the top of brand new 1550 01:39:05,460 --> 01:39:09,330 track from the door falls. Well, you know me I have a weakness 1551 01:39:09,330 --> 01:39:12,090 for the door foals. They are part without the door folds 1552 01:39:12,090 --> 01:39:15,450 there probably would not be a burgeoning value for value music 1553 01:39:15,450 --> 01:39:18,780 value verse because they put out so much content they do their 1554 01:39:18,780 --> 01:39:22,440 own podcast into the value verse and I'd like everybody to boost 1555 01:39:22,440 --> 01:39:24,810 away for this song remember to tell the artists where you heard 1556 01:39:24,810 --> 01:39:27,390 it. Put it right there and your booster Graham telling you heard 1557 01:39:27,390 --> 01:39:31,770 on podcasting 2.0 It's their brand new one. And it is titled 1558 01:39:31,770 --> 01:39:36,300 Love is a war the door full so podcasting 2.0 I got myself 1559 01:39:36,300 --> 01:39:49,410 Unknown: in two years ago let me add you to you promise me I 1560 01:39:49,410 --> 01:40:08,190 promise. Is this fighting for You're seeking it was Manson 1561 01:40:14,280 --> 01:40:18,840 you set out to be the owner is this logo 1562 01:40:24,120 --> 01:40:26,250 is to the slogan was 1563 01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:01,500 soldiers in a dangerous 1564 01:41:15,090 --> 01:41:18,120 this is True 1565 01:42:08,700 --> 01:42:09,780 a gamma selfie 1566 01:42:15,120 --> 01:42:16,830 is good money 1567 01:42:21,720 --> 01:42:23,790 you promise me a promise 1568 01:42:28,470 --> 01:42:33,930 Adam Curry: is worth fighting for lovers award that door falls 1569 01:42:33,930 --> 01:42:39,180 on podcasting 2.0 Let's be honest. Who went to go to the 1570 01:42:39,180 --> 01:42:40,890 bathroom? Oh, 1571 01:42:40,890 --> 01:42:42,960 Dave Jones: I'm much lighter now. Oh, no. 1572 01:42:46,860 --> 01:42:49,320 Adam Curry: Turn the speakers on everybody. Yeah. All right. 1573 01:42:49,830 --> 01:42:53,730 Great song though. Yeah, I'd really opens up I'd like it. 1574 01:42:53,730 --> 01:42:56,550 They got some screaming guitars in their door fools, man, those 1575 01:42:56,550 --> 01:42:58,890 guys are great. We appreciate them in the valley verse. 1576 01:42:59,310 --> 01:43:01,710 Dave Jones: I want to talk briefly just run through this 1577 01:43:01,710 --> 01:43:06,000 real quick about the couple of issues I'm having to work on on 1578 01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:13,320 the API. The API, there's a just finished up a new endpoint for 1579 01:43:13,380 --> 01:43:16,620 transistor. And they're working on a 2.0 feature over there that 1580 01:43:16,620 --> 01:43:20,670 they're going to release. And I had promised John Buddha that I 1581 01:43:20,670 --> 01:43:25,020 would get him some an endpoint. And that's done now. So I've got 1582 01:43:26,610 --> 01:43:29,880 a couple of things to go back and fix in the API has been 1583 01:43:29,880 --> 01:43:34,410 neglected for a couple of months. And one of them is this 1584 01:43:34,860 --> 01:43:47,400 stupid bug. The it's, it's a bug with the max parameter in the 1585 01:43:47,400 --> 01:43:55,830 episodes in point. So if you tell it if you give it a max, so 1586 01:43:55,830 --> 01:43:59,970 the way it's supposed to work is you asked for episodes by 1587 01:43:59,970 --> 01:44:06,480 podcast ID. And you hand it a podcast ID and you say I want 1588 01:44:07,020 --> 01:44:11,250 the episodes and then say max equals 100. So you get back 100 1589 01:44:11,250 --> 01:44:12,240 episodes. Oh, this 1590 01:44:12,240 --> 01:44:14,310 Adam Curry: one? Yeah, we kept getting the wrong amount of 1591 01:44:14,310 --> 01:44:17,490 episodes back. Idea. So minor bug. 1592 01:44:18,150 --> 01:44:24,570 Dave Jones: It's a big bug. And so if it's like we, Steven B, 1593 01:44:25,110 --> 01:44:30,120 God bless him, figure it out, somehow had this. It became 1594 01:44:30,150 --> 01:44:35,280 really ridiculous to the point where he figured out if he puts 1595 01:44:35,280 --> 01:44:40,410 in the magic number 2750 for the max parameter. Did that gives 1596 01:44:40,410 --> 01:44:41,160 him what he wants? 1597 01:44:42,750 --> 01:44:44,700 Adam Curry: Oh, sounds like a math issue somewhere. 1598 01:44:45,300 --> 01:44:48,060 Dave Jones: This is now I know what the I know what the issue 1599 01:44:48,060 --> 01:44:57,960 is. And the issue is that if you there has to be some sort of 1600 01:44:57,960 --> 01:45:03,210 range, okay, because there's So many episodes. In the episodes 1601 01:45:03,210 --> 01:45:06,240 table, there's 120. Well, there's more than that now, 1602 01:45:06,240 --> 01:45:10,320 there's probably pushing 140 million records in the episodes 1603 01:45:10,320 --> 01:45:18,240 table. And if you're pulling in, if you're doing a table join it 1604 01:45:18,240 --> 01:45:23,340 at some point, if you don't range the request, with, with 1605 01:45:23,340 --> 01:45:30,090 some sort of like, low lower bound, MySQL really does not 1606 01:45:30,090 --> 01:45:34,350 like that, and it will slow, it will get slow. In the end, it's 1607 01:45:34,380 --> 01:45:37,080 believed me the tables are properly indexed, it's nothing 1608 01:45:37,080 --> 01:45:43,650 like that. This is not an index issue. This is just some sort of 1609 01:45:43,650 --> 01:45:48,090 issue where if you don't, if I don't put some sort of a lower 1610 01:45:48,090 --> 01:45:52,740 bound on the range, it just, it just gets slow. And we're 1611 01:45:52,740 --> 01:45:57,990 talking about it. So if I just say an unbounded, like an 1612 01:45:57,990 --> 01:46:01,980 unbounded range, and just say everything, and just show me the 1613 01:46:01,980 --> 01:46:06,720 episodes from this podcast ID on this table, but also join these 1614 01:46:06,720 --> 01:46:10,920 other seven tables, you'll end up with a request with an API 1615 01:46:10,920 --> 01:46:16,110 call that doesn't return for 12 seconds. And that's just 1616 01:46:16,110 --> 01:46:19,110 unacceptable. You can't I can't have that. That's an outrage. 1617 01:46:19,590 --> 01:46:26,970 It's, it's outrageous. And so it was not my fix for that has 1618 01:46:26,970 --> 01:46:36,690 always been to, to bound it with a time parameter. So I'll put on 1619 01:46:36,690 --> 01:46:42,570 there, like two years, just just some arbitrary number where it's 1620 01:46:42,570 --> 01:46:47,820 not having to worry, it's not having to do to look at the 1621 01:46:47,820 --> 01:46:51,900 entire index, the entire table of episodes table in order to 1622 01:46:51,900 --> 01:46:55,710 find this, these values. And that that speeds it up, that 1623 01:46:55,710 --> 01:46:58,500 speeds it up significantly. But the problem is, you end up with 1624 01:46:58,500 --> 01:47:00,930 these weird things. Because if you have a podcast that's been 1625 01:47:00,930 --> 01:47:05,700 going for 10 years, well then, and you ask for or some 1626 01:47:05,700 --> 01:47:08,880 arbitrary, there's a what this ends up being a bug with is this 1627 01:47:08,880 --> 01:47:14,580 dance between a time bound. And the actual number of episodes 1628 01:47:14,580 --> 01:47:19,950 you want, creates these bizarre results that don't make any 1629 01:47:19,950 --> 01:47:27,000 sense. But most of the time, it's okay, but some nonce non 1630 01:47:28,740 --> 01:47:33,060 inconsequential amount of time. It's bizarre and weird, and it's 1631 01:47:33,060 --> 01:47:37,320 stupid. So and I don't know what 2750 has to do with anything, 1632 01:47:37,320 --> 01:47:39,780 that's a new one. Okay, that's that I don't know what that is. 1633 01:47:40,110 --> 01:47:43,890 So I'm gonna have to refactor. The reason this has taken so 1634 01:47:43,890 --> 01:47:47,700 long to fix is I'm gonna have to go back and refactor. The low 1635 01:47:47,700 --> 01:47:50,970 level, this is a this is a function that goes back to 1636 01:47:50,970 --> 01:47:55,650 literally August of 2020 27. 1637 01:47:55,650 --> 01:47:57,720 Adam Curry: Like 50 is an angel number, 1638 01:47:58,590 --> 01:48:00,150 Dave Jones: an angel number, what does that mean? 1639 01:48:00,330 --> 01:48:04,500 Adam Curry: I never heard of an angel number. No. Angel numbers, 1640 01:48:04,500 --> 01:48:07,560 a potent symbol of spiritual awakening enlightenment. 1641 01:48:09,090 --> 01:48:16,590 Dave Jones: Well, it works. And I agree with this definition of 1642 01:48:16,590 --> 01:48:21,840 the 2750 is accurate. This goes back this I mean, this code was 1643 01:48:21,840 --> 01:48:26,460 written in August of 2020. Like in the run up before before we 1644 01:48:26,460 --> 01:48:32,820 even launched podcast index.org. So it was like, basically one 1645 01:48:32,820 --> 01:48:36,150 month of converting freedom controller into podcast index 1646 01:48:36,150 --> 01:48:41,310 API. And it's always been gross, it's always been an ugly piece 1647 01:48:41,310 --> 01:48:43,650 of code. So I'm going to have to go back and refactor that, but 1648 01:48:43,650 --> 01:48:51,390 let you know, this function is touched by widely all throughout 1649 01:48:51,390 --> 01:48:56,580 the API. So I cannot just change this thing lightly. It has to be 1650 01:48:56,640 --> 01:48:59,970 extensively tested before I replace it. So that's going to 1651 01:48:59,970 --> 01:49:02,460 be the issue. I'm gonna have to set up a dev environment 1652 01:49:03,690 --> 01:49:07,170 locally, import the full database. So this is going to 1653 01:49:07,170 --> 01:49:10,830 take some time to fix. But I but I am going to fix it. And it 1654 01:49:10,830 --> 01:49:13,740 does need to be fixed and it will be fixed. So you demand 1655 01:49:13,770 --> 01:49:19,950 that's yeah, you demand. Not? Not really. I mean, the stupid 1656 01:49:19,950 --> 01:49:23,730 bugs. It was It wasn't a bug. It was like one of those things 1657 01:49:23,730 --> 01:49:27,780 where, you know, I just needed a quick and dirty fix for it at 1658 01:49:27,780 --> 01:49:30,270 the moment. And the quick and dirty fixes are always the one 1659 01:49:30,270 --> 01:49:32,040 that the ones that last for five years. 1660 01:49:34,290 --> 01:49:36,150 Adam Curry: Yeah, gotcha. Yeah. 1661 01:49:36,300 --> 01:49:40,230 Dave Jones: So anyway, that'll that'll be fixed. The other the 1662 01:49:40,230 --> 01:49:43,530 other issue is we're getting a lot more traffic these days. And 1663 01:49:43,530 --> 01:49:46,350 I'm going to have to do some stuff to take some pressure off 1664 01:49:46,350 --> 01:49:52,020 the database itself. It's not really of is it can handle it. 1665 01:49:52,800 --> 01:50:02,610 It's just running hot. So real quick Another side effect of of 1666 01:50:02,610 --> 01:50:08,070 this of the podcast is index API being being built very fast, is 1667 01:50:08,070 --> 01:50:11,970 that there's too much stuff hitting the database. And I 1668 01:50:11,970 --> 01:50:14,940 don't want to go into what all that is. But there's a lot of 1669 01:50:14,940 --> 01:50:18,570 stuff that could be cached, that doesn't need to be being pulled 1670 01:50:18,570 --> 01:50:23,670 from the database every single request, right? So I'll be, I'm 1671 01:50:23,670 --> 01:50:28,260 going to be rolling a Redis instance, actually, I probably 1672 01:50:28,260 --> 01:50:30,960 won't do Redis, I'm probably just going to write something 1673 01:50:31,320 --> 01:50:37,350 custom. And, and load that in in memory, it just seems it just 1674 01:50:37,350 --> 01:50:41,820 needs to be a simple key value store. Just a hash table lookup. 1675 01:50:42,150 --> 01:50:47,100 And I've already got that for the GU ID for the GU ID lookup 1676 01:50:47,160 --> 01:50:49,860 code. So I'm just going to take that rust code and pull it over 1677 01:50:49,860 --> 01:50:55,350 and repurpose it for this for this tool. And then it can run 1678 01:50:55,350 --> 01:50:59,760 on a $5 Linode. And in where it'll, it'll take a lot of 1679 01:50:59,760 --> 01:51:01,650 pressure off the database. So that's another thing that's 1680 01:51:01,650 --> 01:51:04,650 going to be has a lot of API work in the next couple months. 1681 01:51:09,030 --> 01:51:12,030 Adam Curry: Maybe, Sam, instead of talking specifically about 1682 01:51:12,030 --> 01:51:15,600 activity streams, you've also been looking at podcast index 1683 01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:18,720 social, where does it seem to you that people are most excited 1684 01:51:18,720 --> 01:51:22,770 about into? Because obviously we need to integrate? Yep. Activity 1685 01:51:22,770 --> 01:51:27,300 pub in order to do the streams? Have? Do you have a feel on what 1686 01:51:27,300 --> 01:51:31,410 people are looking at? Is it comments is it follows is 1687 01:51:31,410 --> 01:51:34,200 anything that you've seen anyone look at specifically? 1688 01:51:34,680 --> 01:51:36,930 Sam Sethi: I don't think Well, I think all the excitement is 1689 01:51:36,930 --> 01:51:41,310 around what Dave and Steve did with with the bridge. I think 1690 01:51:41,310 --> 01:51:44,880 that's a great sort of intro for everybody to go, Oh, I didn't 1691 01:51:44,880 --> 01:51:48,420 realize you could do this. So I think I described it on pot 1692 01:51:48,420 --> 01:51:51,870 newsweeklies saying that the metaphor we all need to get our 1693 01:51:51,870 --> 01:51:56,520 heads around is that activity Pub is an inbox outbox, back end 1694 01:51:56,520 --> 01:51:59,640 messaging system more than a social network. And what we're 1695 01:51:59,640 --> 01:52:02,880 trying to do, or at least I think we're trying to do is get 1696 01:52:03,000 --> 01:52:08,070 a signal out of the apps into the social networks that we have 1697 01:52:08,100 --> 01:52:11,070 or master. But What's lovely about the social interact tag is 1698 01:52:11,070 --> 01:52:15,330 not limited by activity pub, actually, we could do it to 1699 01:52:15,330 --> 01:52:18,390 LinkedIn, Twitter, we could do it to anywhere, right. It's just 1700 01:52:18,450 --> 01:52:22,020 I think the best place to start is with activity pub. And I 1701 01:52:22,020 --> 01:52:25,800 think what Dave's doing is allowing people to follow the 1702 01:52:25,800 --> 01:52:29,850 verb. So that's the the activity stream, verb follow. And then 1703 01:52:29,850 --> 01:52:34,860 when they do that, Dave's outbox gets a notification that some 1704 01:52:34,890 --> 01:52:38,820 episodes been updated. And he then relays that message to the 1705 01:52:38,820 --> 01:52:43,050 person's inbox to say, yep, that podcast has been updated. There 1706 01:52:43,050 --> 01:52:47,040 you go. metaphor is useful. 1707 01:52:49,080 --> 01:52:53,880 Dave Jones: So, Sam, how, how, at a low level how and 1708 01:52:53,910 --> 01:52:58,350 integrated with activity Pub is true fans if I if I sent you a 1709 01:52:58,350 --> 01:53:04,770 custom action or verb like, would you? Is that something you 1710 01:53:04,770 --> 01:53:05,700 could accept? 1711 01:53:07,590 --> 01:53:10,830 Sam Sethi: We don't like your element yet, Dave. So we don't 1712 01:53:11,910 --> 01:53:14,850 know we're building it. But we don't have it. Do we have the 1713 01:53:14,880 --> 01:53:21,450 outbox element. So we have every profile, we have a set of 1714 01:53:21,450 --> 01:53:26,100 activity verbs. And what I want to do is publish those so that 1715 01:53:26,100 --> 01:53:31,080 we can all agree on them. But that, that would be like Dave, 1716 01:53:31,230 --> 01:53:36,000 played pod news weekly, and then the attributes to that we can 1717 01:53:36,000 --> 01:53:39,690 add it as an extension, such as the amount of value you actually 1718 01:53:39,690 --> 01:53:44,220 gave, or the percentage of time you completed. So time listened 1719 01:53:44,220 --> 01:53:47,370 percent completed and value paid are three metrics I want to add. 1720 01:53:47,910 --> 01:53:53,310 And that could then be shared from your account. And again, 1721 01:53:53,370 --> 01:53:59,100 whichever app eventually to your activity pub client, and then 1722 01:53:59,130 --> 01:54:01,680 anyone who follows you on that activity pub client is then 1723 01:54:01,680 --> 01:54:04,350 going oh, wow, Dave, I didn't know that. Okay, you've boosted 1724 01:54:04,710 --> 01:54:07,230 Oh, I must go and see what that episode is about, or whatever it 1725 01:54:07,230 --> 01:54:13,200 may be. Now, the inbox element is this social interact tag. So 1726 01:54:13,530 --> 01:54:19,380 for example, if you if Adam or you have given a activity pub 1727 01:54:19,380 --> 01:54:23,550 endpoint as your social interact tag, and we all then are placing 1728 01:54:23,550 --> 01:54:27,960 our comments within there. Now, if it's come from fountain or 1729 01:54:27,960 --> 01:54:32,310 pod verse into that same activity pub note, and I've got 1730 01:54:32,310 --> 01:54:36,930 one coming out from true fans, I need to listen to the other apps 1731 01:54:36,960 --> 01:54:39,660 in that social interact tag and then bring that into the user's 1732 01:54:39,660 --> 01:54:44,190 inbox. The inbox happens to be the episode this time, so it's 1733 01:54:44,190 --> 01:54:47,580 not an individual. And so that's how you can aggregate now that 1734 01:54:47,580 --> 01:54:51,030 could be the same for ratings. But we can extend that you know, 1735 01:54:51,240 --> 01:54:56,460 Adam follows a podcast in Fountain new follow podcasts in 1736 01:54:56,460 --> 01:55:00,450 podcast, we should still be able to know that within truth and 1737 01:55:00,450 --> 01:55:03,630 therefore, you don't have to come and redo that follow when 1738 01:55:03,630 --> 01:55:07,770 you come into our app as well. Lots of things we can do. I 1739 01:55:07,770 --> 01:55:12,300 think step one right now is I think, my Okay, let me step 1740 01:55:12,300 --> 01:55:15,960 back. I think all of us as apps, podcasting, tutor apps have to 1741 01:55:15,960 --> 01:55:21,720 become eventually full activity pub clients might now have to be 1742 01:55:21,720 --> 01:55:24,750 part of the Fetty verse. I think Adam mentioned that a couple of 1743 01:55:24,750 --> 01:55:27,960 weeks back when he said, you know, we probably need to have 1744 01:55:28,200 --> 01:55:33,810 it in true fans case, you know, use that at true fans.fm as a 1745 01:55:33,930 --> 01:55:38,490 activity pub client, just, I am Sam Sethi at podcast index dot 1746 01:55:38,490 --> 01:55:43,170 social. So I think that's where we have to go again, I'm still 1747 01:55:43,290 --> 01:55:46,380 treading lightly. So we've got an outbox element that all 1748 01:55:46,380 --> 01:55:50,940 works. We know that works. We have tested internally pushing 1749 01:55:50,940 --> 01:55:54,720 that out to someone's inbox in their activity pub client. 1750 01:55:54,960 --> 01:55:59,640 Great. And with a link back into true fans, so that, you know, if 1751 01:55:59,640 --> 01:56:02,700 it's an episode you've played, and you want to go and see who 1752 01:56:02,700 --> 01:56:06,060 else has done that, the inbox elements, the second part will 1753 01:56:06,060 --> 01:56:09,570 work on which is listening to the social interact tag and for 1754 01:56:09,570 --> 01:56:13,470 verbs. So, again, it's baby steps, but I think that's the 1755 01:56:13,470 --> 01:56:14,040 way we're going. 1756 01:56:15,420 --> 01:56:19,290 Dave Jones: So if you so in your world, in the true fans world, 1757 01:56:19,650 --> 01:56:22,500 you really have multiple actors. You have the you have the user 1758 01:56:22,500 --> 01:56:28,530 and the podcast episode. Okay, and then you have sort of do I 1759 01:56:28,530 --> 01:56:32,550 have an out in my much I'm logged into true fans right now. 1760 01:56:33,180 --> 01:56:34,770 Do I have an outbox? 1761 01:56:35,100 --> 01:56:38,280 Sam Sethi: Yes. So if you go to your profile on the you click on 1762 01:56:38,280 --> 01:56:39,510 the activity tab. 1763 01:56:40,830 --> 01:56:42,000 Dave Jones: Okay. Yes, yeah. 1764 01:56:43,080 --> 01:56:47,670 Sam Sethi: That is your outbox. Okay. So that's all the 1765 01:56:47,670 --> 01:56:51,750 activities you've done. Within true fans, whether you've played 1766 01:56:51,750 --> 01:56:57,030 suggested followed, boosted, whatever you've done, you can 1767 01:56:57,030 --> 01:57:00,000 see all the verbs in the drop down. There's a list of all the 1768 01:57:00,000 --> 01:57:01,620 verbs there. So 1769 01:57:01,620 --> 01:57:04,920 Dave Jones: is it simply an outbox, or is it also an active 1770 01:57:05,250 --> 01:57:07,230 Push? Push? 1771 01:57:08,490 --> 01:57:10,830 Sam Sethi: No, we haven't done the push, pull is going to come. 1772 01:57:10,830 --> 01:57:11,460 Okay. Okay. 1773 01:57:11,940 --> 01:57:15,240 Dave Jones: So that so in the future, okay, in the future, I 1774 01:57:15,240 --> 01:57:20,880 could follow myself on true fans from a mastodon account. And 1775 01:57:20,880 --> 01:57:24,960 then or from another activity pub client, and then I can get 1776 01:57:25,290 --> 01:57:29,790 notifications of of my outbox activity as pushes to the shared 1777 01:57:29,790 --> 01:57:30,900 inbox, right? That's fine. 1778 01:57:31,530 --> 01:57:34,380 Sam Sethi: And if I go to your user settings and scroll down to 1779 01:57:34,380 --> 01:57:37,620 privacy, you'll see that we've already said, hide all my 1780 01:57:37,620 --> 01:57:43,500 activity, or just make my these verbs public. Right. That was 1781 01:57:43,500 --> 01:57:46,650 the next step we worked on the step after is what you're asking 1782 01:57:46,650 --> 01:57:51,450 is, Can I now publish those automatically? Or when we have 1783 01:57:51,450 --> 01:57:54,450 no idea how we're going to do it? Totally? Can I publish those 1784 01:57:54,450 --> 01:57:58,380 activities to my activity pub inbox? And the answer is yes. 1785 01:57:58,380 --> 01:58:00,270 And that's what we're going to work on. You'll see that next 1786 01:58:00,270 --> 01:58:03,090 week, I'll send you both think that's why because I would 1787 01:58:03,090 --> 01:58:06,090 Dave Jones: love I would love to add, you know, somehow aggregate 1788 01:58:06,090 --> 01:58:10,770 this because the thing that we don't have, in every, every 1789 01:58:10,770 --> 01:58:16,170 directory is going to have the same issue. We we may, you know, 1790 01:58:16,200 --> 01:58:19,020 people may act, the other directories of podcast 1791 01:58:19,020 --> 01:58:21,990 directories may act like they have some top secret information 1792 01:58:22,020 --> 01:58:25,890 in a way that nobody else does. But that's not true. We don't we 1793 01:58:25,890 --> 01:58:28,320 have the same problem that everybody else does is we don't 1794 01:58:28,320 --> 01:58:32,880 have first party data. So we don't know what we don't know 1795 01:58:32,880 --> 01:58:36,180 how many. How many people follow a podcast, we don't know how 1796 01:58:36,180 --> 01:58:38,910 many people we don't know, download numbers, we don't know, 1797 01:58:38,910 --> 01:58:42,360 we don't know anything. So we really are guessing at 1798 01:58:42,780 --> 01:58:47,430 popularity of things. To make some intelligent decisions. 1799 01:58:48,600 --> 01:58:51,810 We're guessing at it based on just sort of like these weird 1800 01:58:52,050 --> 01:58:55,890 inferences about how many requests to the API, we're 1801 01:58:55,890 --> 01:58:58,770 getting in that kind of thing. But if I could, if I had a way 1802 01:58:58,770 --> 01:59:05,970 to subscribe to, you know, a hose of of the of it activity 1803 01:59:05,970 --> 01:59:08,580 pub information coming through about plays and that kind of 1804 01:59:08,580 --> 01:59:10,650 thing. Man, that would be valuable. 1805 01:59:11,220 --> 01:59:12,420 Adam Curry: Yeah, for a lot of people. 1806 01:59:12,810 --> 01:59:16,890 Sam Sethi: Yeah. So the way that we've done it is if you are a 1807 01:59:16,890 --> 01:59:20,100 creative, the owner of the podcast, right, or a music 1808 01:59:20,100 --> 01:59:23,100 artist, you go into your creators admin dashboard, and we 1809 01:59:23,100 --> 01:59:26,520 will show you all the activity streams from the people who are 1810 01:59:26,520 --> 01:59:30,540 fans of your music or fans of your podcast. And that's an 1811 01:59:30,540 --> 01:59:34,140 aggregated activity stream, you can drill down to that's the 1812 01:59:34,140 --> 01:59:37,470 data you want, which is per podcast, you don't want the 1813 01:59:37,470 --> 01:59:42,210 individual data, per se. You might do but you would then have 1814 01:59:42,210 --> 01:59:45,690 to do the aggregation yourself, right? Whereas what we're giving 1815 01:59:45,690 --> 01:59:50,190 the creators is that aggregated view of their podcasts or music 1816 01:59:50,190 --> 01:59:53,940 app or book eventually, and that's the data that's valuable 1817 01:59:53,940 --> 01:59:57,240 because then it tells them how long did Dave listen to the 1818 01:59:57,240 --> 02:00:01,470 show? What how much did he pay wind Did he drop off? And then, 1819 02:00:02,100 --> 02:00:05,070 you know, we've got concepts of leaderboards and gamification. 1820 02:00:05,070 --> 02:00:08,070 And the reason we have that is because then you want to know 1821 02:00:08,070 --> 02:00:11,130 who's the superfan who's listened to his show the most, 1822 02:00:11,400 --> 02:00:14,550 who's paid the most, or all these different aspects then 1823 02:00:14,550 --> 02:00:18,000 come out, but we can't build those elements until we've done 1824 02:00:18,000 --> 02:00:20,760 the basic building blocks, which is what we're still working on. 1825 02:00:21,930 --> 02:00:25,620 Dave Jones: That enables the followers. You know, the, the 1826 02:00:25,620 --> 02:00:30,750 followers in endpoint activity pub, like in a traditional 1827 02:00:30,930 --> 02:00:36,300 activity pub in point has an inbox and outbox featured? I 1828 02:00:36,300 --> 02:00:38,250 think one of the and one of them, I think, is called 1829 02:00:38,250 --> 02:00:42,120 followers. So you can put probe that as well, I mean, like that, 1830 02:00:42,150 --> 02:00:45,750 that opens up a whole lot of stuff. That is, that is super 1831 02:00:45,750 --> 02:00:51,120 valuable. And I think that like, it also helps to cross pollinate 1832 02:00:51,120 --> 02:00:55,620 between podcast apps completely in a way that's like a it's just 1833 02:00:55,620 --> 02:00:59,730 not happening right now. And it doesn't have to it's not an it's 1834 02:00:59,730 --> 02:01:03,780 not a competition. Issue. Really. I mean, I think it 1835 02:01:03,780 --> 02:01:08,310 really is a rising tide lifts all boats scenario, the more 1836 02:01:08,310 --> 02:01:13,170 these apps, you know, if I'm doing something in true fans, 1837 02:01:13,230 --> 02:01:19,590 and then found in our pod verse shows that activity, I don't see 1838 02:01:19,590 --> 02:01:22,800 that any different because I'm hopping back and forth between 1839 02:01:22,800 --> 02:01:27,180 apps. I don't see that any different as I would cross out 1840 02:01:27,180 --> 02:01:29,730 comments. Dice is just saying Chad 1841 02:01:29,730 --> 02:01:34,980 Sam Sethi: F posted just now on to Mastodon that somehow Oscar's 1842 02:01:34,980 --> 02:01:38,880 showing all of the boosts from true fans and from other apps 1843 02:01:39,210 --> 02:01:42,420 coming into fountain tonight. Right? So I assume you're 1844 02:01:42,420 --> 02:01:50,190 listening to any any. I'm guessing. He's listening on the 1845 02:01:50,190 --> 02:01:53,340 OB dashboard, for example, for any payments, and then he's 1846 02:01:53,340 --> 02:01:57,990 aggregating it on to the episode for tonight show. So again, that 1847 02:01:57,990 --> 02:02:01,080 sounds really cool. But I think we can do it. Instead of 1848 02:02:01,080 --> 02:02:05,220 scraping all the dashboards and doing all that stuff. I think we 1849 02:02:05,220 --> 02:02:08,490 can do it, as you described Dave, with an open starts, where 1850 02:02:08,490 --> 02:02:11,910 we all have a set of agreed verbs. And then when we publish 1851 02:02:11,910 --> 02:02:15,690 those verbs, and those verbs can be listened to. It is like a 1852 02:02:15,690 --> 02:02:19,380 reverse pumping. I don't think that's the right word. But it's 1853 02:02:19,410 --> 02:02:23,910 apps, other apps listening to other apps for signals of 1854 02:02:23,910 --> 02:02:27,990 activity from those apps, and then aggregating them around an 1855 02:02:27,990 --> 02:02:31,680 episode or a podcast or a user, whichever the object is, or the 1856 02:02:31,680 --> 02:02:32,580 person actor. 1857 02:02:33,420 --> 02:02:36,000 Adam Curry: I'm very excited by this. I really am excited. 1858 02:02:37,620 --> 02:02:39,690 Dave Jones: Yeah, this, this is a must step aside 1859 02:02:39,690 --> 02:02:42,630 Adam Curry: into your excitement. If I want to get any 1860 02:02:42,630 --> 02:02:44,670 of your excitement on me. Yes. 1861 02:02:45,870 --> 02:02:47,820 Dave Jones: I'm in I'm in sync mode. 1862 02:02:47,880 --> 02:02:50,550 Adam Curry: I know. I know, you. I know you, honey, I know how 1863 02:02:50,550 --> 02:02:51,060 you think. 1864 02:02:52,350 --> 02:02:55,410 Dave Jones: Yeah, this is a, this is a big deal. Because if 1865 02:02:55,410 --> 02:03:00,540 you have Yeah, this is the share. This is the sharing of 1866 02:03:02,130 --> 02:03:07,290 this is the sharing of data across apps. And this is hard. 1867 02:03:08,070 --> 02:03:11,340 You know, we talked about this a little bit, Alex jumped in. And 1868 02:03:11,340 --> 02:03:15,300 we're kind of hashing some of this out about pod ping and how 1869 02:03:15,300 --> 02:03:21,240 some of these activities go across the wire. And piping 1870 02:03:21,900 --> 02:03:24,390 insignia specifically, I mean, these are things that they're 1871 02:03:24,390 --> 02:03:32,130 not easy. But, but they, I don't want to shy away from them, just 1872 02:03:32,130 --> 02:03:36,360 because they're not easy. We're, you know, we're, we're gonna 1873 02:03:36,360 --> 02:03:41,580 think about them. And if we can start simple, then maybe, maybe 1874 02:03:41,580 --> 02:03:44,100 a better solution presents itself down the line. If you 1875 02:03:44,100 --> 02:03:47,490 start, you know, we start more simply by something like, the 1876 02:03:47,850 --> 02:03:53,010 activities that you define them into fans play, you know, Dave 1877 02:03:53,010 --> 02:03:57,150 became a fan of, you know, or like a follow or a day followed 1878 02:03:57,150 --> 02:04:01,020 this podcast, Dave boosted this podcast. And like you said, it's 1879 02:04:01,020 --> 02:04:03,510 already been, it's already been distributed, we can already see 1880 02:04:03,510 --> 02:04:06,870 the boosts coming out of fountain this is not, this is 1881 02:04:06,870 --> 02:04:10,470 not anything that's, that's problematic. Now, 1882 02:04:10,470 --> 02:04:13,140 Sam Sethi: it's just adding structured data to it. So the 1883 02:04:13,140 --> 02:04:16,500 way I think about it is the activity stream is a user 1884 02:04:16,500 --> 02:04:20,340 generated RSS feed of what they've done, right? And that 1885 02:04:20,370 --> 02:04:23,910 activity stream, then becomes something that they can share. 1886 02:04:23,910 --> 02:04:27,750 Now, I said it wrongly a couple of months ago when I said, Oh, 1887 02:04:27,750 --> 02:04:30,660 why wouldn't the podcast index aggregate the activity stream 1888 02:04:30,660 --> 02:04:34,020 centrally? That was totally wrong? Because actually a 1889 02:04:34,020 --> 02:04:36,750 decentralized system like activity, pub doesn't need a 1890 02:04:36,750 --> 02:04:41,100 central database, or what I was trying to think of at the time 1891 02:04:41,100 --> 02:04:46,230 was, could I could all the apps send it like the host send you 1892 02:04:46,230 --> 02:04:49,440 the RSS and you aggregate it in the podcast index, and then 1893 02:04:49,440 --> 02:04:52,260 poorer and pushes it down? And I was thinking that way, and I'm 1894 02:04:52,260 --> 02:04:55,650 wrong. But that's how I was thinking. All the apps actually 1895 02:04:55,650 --> 02:04:59,220 would send user generated feeds up to the podcast index, and 1896 02:04:59,220 --> 02:05:03,570 then other app We'd listen to a central repository. But actually 1897 02:05:03,570 --> 02:05:06,240 with activity pub being decentralized and relayed, we 1898 02:05:06,240 --> 02:05:10,140 don't have to do it that way. So yeah, yeah, that was how I was 1899 02:05:10,140 --> 02:05:10,920 thinking originally. 1900 02:05:11,730 --> 02:05:16,260 Dave Jones: And I'm, I'm overdue for a, for a blog post about 1901 02:05:16,260 --> 02:05:19,650 this so that I can just give app developers a little bit of a 1902 02:05:19,650 --> 02:05:23,550 primer on how on how the basic endpoint structures work, 1903 02:05:23,550 --> 02:05:26,700 because it's really, activity Pub is really not that hard. 1904 02:05:27,690 --> 02:05:31,890 It's pretty simple. And I think a lot of people have been scared 1905 02:05:31,890 --> 02:05:35,190 of it, because it seems like because it's, it's not well 1906 02:05:35,190 --> 02:05:38,910 documented. So I do need to just write something about this so 1907 02:05:38,910 --> 02:05:44,280 that people see how there's, you can get activity pub servers out 1908 02:05:44,280 --> 02:05:49,500 there, that you can find them on GitHub, that are like that are 1909 02:05:49,500 --> 02:05:55,560 like 1500 lines of PHP. It's It's like nothing man there is 1910 02:05:55,560 --> 02:05:59,460 so simplistic, because really, all it is, is just it's a dot 1911 02:05:59,460 --> 02:06:04,110 well known endpoint, which can be static even. And then like, 1912 02:06:04,200 --> 02:06:10,290 then then like three URLs, like three endpoints. It's really not 1913 02:06:10,290 --> 02:06:13,590 complicated. So I think any app can put this in there. 1914 02:06:14,370 --> 02:06:17,070 Sam Sethi: To John Spurlock school, something he's working 1915 02:06:17,070 --> 02:06:22,200 on, or has worked on called mini pub, which takes the weight of a 1916 02:06:22,200 --> 02:06:26,700 full blown mastodons server, and just does the reeling element of 1917 02:06:26,700 --> 02:06:29,490 it. Now, John and I spoke and I don't know if this is going to 1918 02:06:29,490 --> 02:06:33,150 come back to life. And that's up to John, but he has something 1919 02:06:33,150 --> 02:06:38,640 available there that could work as a relay. Because actually, if 1920 02:06:38,640 --> 02:06:42,960 all the apps become full blown activity pub clients, then all 1921 02:06:42,960 --> 02:06:46,500 you're using is the activity pub protocol. Mastodon doesn't 1922 02:06:46,500 --> 02:06:49,950 become part of the conversation is just happens to be another 1923 02:06:49,950 --> 02:06:53,430 endpoint for publishing activity, but it doesn't have to 1924 02:06:53,430 --> 02:06:57,720 be specifically the mastodon API that we use, it will be the 1925 02:06:58,140 --> 02:07:00,210 activity pub protocol use so 1926 02:07:01,230 --> 02:07:02,700 Dave Jones: you know, that's good for the and that's good for 1927 02:07:02,700 --> 02:07:05,370 activity pub for the whole ecosystem, because it takes the 1928 02:07:05,430 --> 02:07:08,730 you know, it blunts this monopolistic dominance that 1929 02:07:08,760 --> 02:07:10,140 Mastodon has ended up with. 1930 02:07:11,130 --> 02:07:14,340 Adam Curry: Exactly, shall we? Thanks. Some people were two 1931 02:07:14,340 --> 02:07:18,600 hours seven minutes at this point. Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah. And 1932 02:07:19,110 --> 02:07:26,640 And as an aside, we are at block height 33 blocks left five hours 1933 02:07:26,640 --> 02:07:29,400 30 minutes and 35 seconds until the habit Oh, 1934 02:07:30,840 --> 02:07:33,450 Dave Jones: how many how long until the heavens five hours? 1935 02:07:34,140 --> 02:07:38,130 Five hours. Okay. So we will see we need to need to keep the show 1936 02:07:38,130 --> 02:07:41,580 going for until seven till eight o'clock tonight. 1937 02:07:42,120 --> 02:07:43,500 Adam Curry: We can have breakfast with Sam. 1938 02:07:45,330 --> 02:07:47,880 Dave Jones: That's the title of the show. Breakfast was Sam. Oh, 1939 02:07:47,880 --> 02:07:51,270 Adam Curry: goodness gracious Goodman. Well, how about I do 1940 02:07:51,390 --> 02:07:54,750 the booths that have been coming in? Yes, I start that off. We 1941 02:07:54,750 --> 02:07:57,690 are value for value of course. So the whole project everything 1942 02:07:57,690 --> 02:08:01,260 Dave and I do here is value for value. Keeps everything running. 1943 02:08:01,260 --> 02:08:04,560 We appreciate all of the all of the support we've been 1944 02:08:04,560 --> 02:08:07,560 receiving. Doesn't matter how much how little but of course, 1945 02:08:07,830 --> 02:08:13,380 outside of pay pals and onchange no one ever does. We are rarely 1946 02:08:13,380 --> 02:08:17,130 ever does. We really want you to get a modern podcast app and 1947 02:08:17,130 --> 02:08:20,490 boost us so we have a row of ducks 2222 from Jason from 1948 02:08:20,490 --> 02:08:25,350 podcast guru. And he says thanks Sam for increasing my backlog. 1949 02:08:27,210 --> 02:08:31,140 Dave Jones: Sorry. Very nice. That's that's Sam's middle name 1950 02:08:31,140 --> 02:08:31,620 backlog. 1951 02:08:33,090 --> 02:08:35,970 Adam Curry: Mike Dell with a row of ducks. 2022 no censorship 1952 02:08:35,970 --> 02:08:40,200 brand safety RSS is podcasting. Freedom. That's right. Gene 1953 02:08:40,200 --> 02:08:44,040 Everett says boost with 3333 chatter for the row of ducks AI 1954 02:08:44,040 --> 02:08:49,200 articles read by AI voices. Oh brother. Yes, right. So the dead 1955 02:08:49,200 --> 02:08:54,120 internet. Salty crayon. He says boosting from the secret 1956 02:08:54,120 --> 02:08:59,130 squirrel office through true fans boost with 333 and another 1957 02:08:59,130 --> 02:09:03,540 row of sticks or riches sack of Richards from salty crayon 1958 02:09:03,540 --> 02:09:06,210 Flashback Friday in the boardroom lighters big hair and 1959 02:09:06,210 --> 02:09:11,130 bandanas rockin go podcasting? Yes, indeed. Chat F was another 1960 02:09:11,130 --> 02:09:15,630 row of ducks. Phoebe hates ads. She was barking a lot during 1961 02:09:15,630 --> 02:09:21,450 that 1652 From let's see fountain user. Oh, no, that's 1962 02:09:21,510 --> 02:09:24,780 that's a different podcast. I'm sorry. That makes you that? Mere 1963 02:09:24,780 --> 02:09:28,620 Mortals podcast. Here we go row. Satchel of Richard's felt wrong 1964 02:09:28,620 --> 02:09:32,130 boosting not using true fans. It's not my favorite app to use 1965 02:09:32,130 --> 02:09:34,800 on a desktop. And if you guys celebrating the halving in some 1966 02:09:34,800 --> 02:09:39,870 way, yes, we're gonna keep on the air. Just heard? Yeah. Kyron 1967 02:09:40,590 --> 02:09:46,080 1000 SATs from fountain user 21398871. Change it. Sam in the 1968 02:09:46,080 --> 02:09:52,380 house is right. He podcasts over the 1000 SATs preach podcasting 1969 02:09:52,440 --> 02:09:56,010 is an RSS feed with an enclosure. And there Sir Brian 1970 02:09:56,010 --> 02:10:00,270 of London down there in Tel Aviv is in Tel Aviv, isn't he? Aggies 1971 02:10:00,270 --> 02:10:04,830 Intellivue chug Samish happy Passover to all Oh yeah, that's 1972 02:10:04,830 --> 02:10:11,280 right. Happy Passover. Think we eat? What is it? Apple with 1973 02:10:11,280 --> 02:10:12,960 honey on Passover. I can't remember. 1974 02:10:15,210 --> 02:10:16,470 Dave Jones: The sheep hoof Yeah, there 1975 02:10:16,470 --> 02:10:20,520 Adam Curry: you go blow the horn. Mini yes striper boosts 1976 02:10:20,520 --> 02:10:23,970 777 Just listening first time listening live couldn't get 1977 02:10:23,970 --> 02:10:26,460 found to work live before and he's boosting from phantom so 1978 02:10:26,460 --> 02:10:29,970 you got it to work Mike Dell with popcorn ready? He says 1701 1979 02:10:30,240 --> 02:10:33,990 Chat F with another row of ducks. I TBR in the boardroom to 1980 02:10:33,990 --> 02:10:42,600 you. Blitz see we have anything else that came in. I have one 1981 02:10:42,600 --> 02:10:50,430 before the delimiter I'm not sure but all I'll do this one 1982 02:10:50,430 --> 02:10:54,030 just in case you didn't get a day. 5000 SATs from Linkin Park 1983 02:10:54,030 --> 02:10:59,040 rules. Hey, curry in the pod sage. Adam, I've noticed those 1984 02:10:59,070 --> 02:11:02,430 eye catching gifs recently in your no agenda chapters. Yes. 1985 02:11:02,430 --> 02:11:05,880 That is the work of the Bruce Wayne of podcasting. 2.0 Dred 1986 02:11:05,880 --> 02:11:09,300 Scott, I'm glad you've come to the dark side. Check out the 1987 02:11:09,300 --> 02:11:13,380 latest episode of ungovernable misfits to see our GIF game gifs 1988 02:11:13,380 --> 02:11:17,460 in Chapter an episode art or the real video podcast, pew pew. 1989 02:11:18,720 --> 02:11:20,700 Alright, Dave, would you have dragged 1990 02:11:20,700 --> 02:11:25,020 Dave Jones: her? Just we're okay in Chapter art and consequently 1991 02:11:25,020 --> 02:11:25,710 went berserk? 1992 02:11:25,830 --> 02:11:27,510 Adam Curry: Of course he did. Yeah. 1993 02:11:28,620 --> 02:11:32,580 Dave Jones: Oh, Steven crater, the developer of podcast AP the 1994 02:11:32,580 --> 02:11:36,720 hottest thing on the net. Sliced bread. Yes. since sliced bread. 1995 02:11:37,530 --> 02:11:40,470 Gave us $100 Brother. 1996 02:11:40,830 --> 02:11:44,820 Adam Curry: Wow, that does I need a wise my thing working 1997 02:11:44,820 --> 02:11:46,020 here. There was a podcast 1998 02:11:47,610 --> 02:11:51,360 Unknown: shot called 20 is blades on the hem Paula. 1999 02:11:52,470 --> 02:11:55,860 Dave Jones: I blame the power outage for the AP bridge. He 2000 02:11:55,860 --> 02:11:59,520 says podcast ap.com brought some extra pressure to the bridge 2001 02:11:59,520 --> 02:12:04,080 server. It did but we're holding up good. Good. I've got we're 2002 02:12:04,080 --> 02:12:10,200 still getting periodic reports of follows not completing. 2003 02:12:10,410 --> 02:12:12,510 There's like a three way handshake that happens when you 2004 02:12:12,510 --> 02:12:18,240 do a follow and on an activity pub where it has to you request 2005 02:12:18,240 --> 02:12:21,450 to follow then it verifies and then it completes sends an 2006 02:12:21,450 --> 02:12:22,320 invoice 2007 02:12:22,350 --> 02:12:23,460 Adam Curry: checks the house. 2008 02:12:24,300 --> 02:12:29,820 Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. So then sometimes that thing is getting 2009 02:12:29,820 --> 02:12:35,640 interrupted and I don't know exactly why but I've got I'm 2010 02:12:35,640 --> 02:12:40,920 going to sign up for an account. There's some there's a AP client 2011 02:12:40,920 --> 02:12:45,450 called Sharky is evidently I think it's a fork of miski and 2012 02:12:45,510 --> 02:12:48,600 it's evidently that's got a problem. So we've had a couple 2013 02:12:48,600 --> 02:12:51,630 of days we've ironed most of them out but that one seems 2014 02:12:51,630 --> 02:12:53,730 problematic. I don't know why but you are going to fix it. 2015 02:12:53,730 --> 02:13:03,510 Thank you Steve. Appreciate that brother. See, we've got almost 2016 02:13:03,510 --> 02:13:07,800 plays out here it is. Oh $300 from the boys and girls a 2017 02:13:07,800 --> 02:13:10,380 blueberry podcast. Oh 2018 02:13:10,380 --> 02:13:15,000 Unknown: boy. 20 is Blaze own. I am Paula Wow. Thank 2019 02:13:15,000 --> 02:13:16,230 Adam Curry: you so much note, 2020 02:13:16,410 --> 02:13:19,500 Dave Jones: I had a note Hey Gents, the team here at Hey Jen. 2021 02:13:19,500 --> 02:13:22,800 Hey, Jan's blueberry. Podcasting has our head down working on 2022 02:13:22,800 --> 02:13:27,060 products to reduce overall costs for podcasters. By replacing 2023 02:13:27,060 --> 02:13:30,180 third party services, they're paying big bucks. That is 2024 02:13:30,180 --> 02:13:32,370 causing them to question while they are why they are 2025 02:13:32,370 --> 02:13:37,080 podcasting. Yes, you get that but that bill for big bucks. You 2026 02:13:37,080 --> 02:13:38,340 ask yourself why? 2027 02:13:38,370 --> 02:13:42,420 Adam Curry: Why am I podcasting? Why am I doing this again? Yeah. 2028 02:13:43,170 --> 02:13:43,500 Thank 2029 02:13:43,500 --> 02:13:47,580 Dave Jones: you. Very nice. Thank you. Appreciate that. That 2030 02:13:47,580 --> 02:13:55,140 helps a lot Buzzsprout that they also help a lot $1,000 2031 02:13:56,220 --> 02:14:01,440 Unknown: My 20 is blades only Ambala has it been a month since 2032 02:14:01,440 --> 02:14:03,600 their last $1,000 donation? 2033 02:14:04,020 --> 02:14:08,520 Dave Jones: We're old. That's the problem. We're old. What do 2034 02:14:08,520 --> 02:14:10,740 you mean going by incredibly fast. 2035 02:14:10,830 --> 02:14:14,640 Adam Curry: Really? Really? It's been a month? Yes. Wow. Yes, 2036 02:14:14,670 --> 02:14:17,370 dude, thank you so much Buzzsprout you're really keeping 2037 02:14:17,370 --> 02:14:19,230 this rollin to its appreciate Yeah, 2038 02:14:19,680 --> 02:14:21,720 Dave Jones: they never put a note in but we we 2039 02:14:21,720 --> 02:14:24,150 Adam Curry: know we know we know there's love dripping off it 2040 02:14:24,150 --> 02:14:25,260 everywhere is just 2041 02:14:25,260 --> 02:14:31,890 Dave Jones: dripping it there's we're also a seen a big decrease 2042 02:14:31,890 --> 02:14:34,350 in the amount of spam feeds coming from Buzzsprout. And I 2043 02:14:34,350 --> 02:14:38,550 think they have been talking to Tom I think he's doing some good 2044 02:14:38,550 --> 02:14:44,250 blocking now on IP at the IP level. And so I'm keeping an eye 2045 02:14:44,250 --> 02:14:47,010 on that but they're they're trying to get things under 2046 02:14:47,010 --> 02:14:53,730 control. Appreciate you guys. Listen, I'm having trouble. Oh, 2047 02:14:53,730 --> 02:14:59,220 you're here this up Beats Music podcast $4.20 Thank you 2048 02:14:59,250 --> 02:15:02,340 afternoon board. room just a pre havening donation before 2049 02:15:02,340 --> 02:15:06,210 tomorrow, or tonight by the time of which, by the time of this, 2050 02:15:06,360 --> 02:15:11,580 which this sounds like a rebel by the time of this, which is 2051 02:15:11,580 --> 02:15:15,150 only 49 blocks away according to Clark moody dashboard, Dave, 2052 02:15:15,870 --> 02:15:18,960 here's some value for the effort to fix the by medium endpoint. 2053 02:15:19,260 --> 02:15:23,250 According to Steven B. Max equals 3000 broke it. So go 2054 02:15:28,200 --> 02:15:29,640 Adam Curry: sorry, when you 2055 02:15:29,640 --> 02:15:30,780 Dave Jones: 750 Is your 2056 02:15:31,290 --> 02:15:32,220 Adam Curry: 50 your angel 2057 02:15:32,220 --> 02:15:36,510 Dave Jones: number, remember? Yes. And we got a new 2058 02:15:36,720 --> 02:15:40,440 subscriptions subscriber monthly subscribers, silicone florist 2059 02:15:40,440 --> 02:15:42,030 and dollars a month. Thank you. So call florist, you 2060 02:15:42,030 --> 02:15:43,080 Adam Curry: silicone florist. 2061 02:15:44,460 --> 02:15:47,280 Dave Jones: We get some boosts. Let's see if I can pull up the 2062 02:15:48,300 --> 02:15:52,050 the booster dashboard. Here's the matting the booster Monica 2063 02:15:52,050 --> 02:15:56,820 Jean been 1024 killer boost. The cast Matic he says if a podcast 2064 02:15:56,820 --> 02:15:59,640 app has activity pub client functionality under the hood, 2065 02:16:00,210 --> 02:16:03,480 and pod cat and pod ping is bridged to activity pub, then 2066 02:16:03,480 --> 02:16:07,050 even serverless apps like cast emetic could receive and benefit 2067 02:16:07,050 --> 02:16:13,080 from pod pings. Yes, yes. But you still need a notification 2068 02:16:13,080 --> 02:16:17,790 mechanism. And that's what we're trying to hash out. Alex was 2069 02:16:17,790 --> 02:16:20,940 hashing out the some of that stuff on the on the social last 2070 02:16:20,940 --> 02:16:25,500 week, you still need some sort of really a push notification. 2071 02:16:25,860 --> 02:16:29,640 Because the app in my own modern phones, if they're native apps. 2072 02:16:29,640 --> 02:16:31,920 Now true fans wouldn't have this problem I met Well, I guess 2073 02:16:31,920 --> 02:16:39,000 that's not serverless. So but on a native app, you can't be 2074 02:16:39,000 --> 02:16:42,990 guaranteed to be always running in the background. So you would 2075 02:16:42,990 --> 02:16:45,690 have to have some sort, the only way to get timely notifications 2076 02:16:45,690 --> 02:16:51,300 is through some sort of push. And each platform grows. But 2077 02:16:51,300 --> 02:16:55,020 each platform has its own way of doing things and get unified 2078 02:16:55,020 --> 02:17:02,070 push Apple, Firebase, it's just it's, it's a lot. So one of 2079 02:17:02,070 --> 02:17:08,520 these days. We'll get there. We'll get there. Mike Dell, from 2080 02:17:08,520 --> 02:17:12,990 over blueberry 1701 That's a Captain Picard boost. You found 2081 02:17:12,990 --> 02:17:14,700 a nice as shown off boosts. 2082 02:17:15,210 --> 02:17:18,210 Adam Curry: Always fun. We're gonna shoot. We're gonna boost 2083 02:17:18,809 --> 02:17:22,049 Dave Jones: gene bein again. 1337 elite boost, he says Dave, 2084 02:17:22,739 --> 02:17:25,589 instead of writing an audio book app, it'd be awesome if you 2085 02:17:25,589 --> 02:17:29,189 expanded the audio book shelf app. No idea if that's 2086 02:17:29,189 --> 02:17:30,689 practical, but it'd be awesome. 2087 02:17:31,770 --> 02:17:34,530 Adam Curry: Must when you open an app I think it's open source. 2088 02:17:35,280 --> 02:17:36,780 Dave Jones: Oh, is it no no, I didn't know that. 2089 02:17:38,249 --> 02:17:39,059 Adam Curry: I believe so. 2090 02:17:39,599 --> 02:17:41,549 Dave Jones: That's cool. All right. Yeah, that's okay. I 2091 02:17:41,549 --> 02:17:42,089 looked at it. 2092 02:17:44,579 --> 02:17:47,519 Adam Curry: I think you can do that Sunday night between 11 and 2093 02:17:47,519 --> 02:17:50,789 one you still have some time leftover on your calendar. Yeah 2094 02:17:50,789 --> 02:17:54,839 Dave Jones: squeezed in between dinner and dessert. Mike Dale 2095 02:17:54,839 --> 02:18:01,979 1701 He comes in again he says grow your show lame and create 2096 02:18:01,979 --> 02:18:05,609 creations and desert buddy Andy over there. 3000 says crook 2097 02:18:05,609 --> 02:18:16,769 asthmatic. He says he's a grower and to show thank you all for 2098 02:18:16,769 --> 02:18:20,099 you. This is Andy Lamma creations. 3000 says he says 2099 02:18:20,099 --> 02:18:23,669 thank you all for all you guys do. Thanks to Adam. I have been 2100 02:18:23,669 --> 02:18:26,579 working on my V for V ask on my podcast Answers podcast and 2101 02:18:26,579 --> 02:18:29,669 thanks today for well, just being Dave and doing all the 2102 02:18:29,669 --> 02:18:31,019 tech work. He does your podcast 2103 02:18:31,050 --> 02:18:32,130 Adam Curry: you go go podcast. 2104 02:18:32,639 --> 02:18:39,029 Dave Jones: Thank you, Andy. Up in 1984. Three found a nice to 2105 02:18:39,029 --> 02:18:41,969 see 4000 says he says back in September, I wrote a blog post 2106 02:18:41,969 --> 02:18:44,309 in response to a discussion Chris Fisher over at Jupiter 2107 02:18:44,309 --> 02:18:47,009 broadcasting had about advertising in the podcast 2108 02:18:47,009 --> 02:18:51,569 space. It's not exactly what you were talking about. But maybe 2109 02:18:51,569 --> 02:18:54,629 some ideas can be pulled from it and refined to fit in with your 2110 02:18:54,629 --> 02:18:59,339 idea. Here's the address for the post https colon slash slash opp 2111 02:18:59,339 --> 02:19:02,069 y 1980 four.com/sets. For ads. 2112 02:19:02,099 --> 02:19:03,989 Adam Curry: I read that I read that good article. 2113 02:19:06,180 --> 02:19:08,190 Dave Jones: I've not read it because I just saw this sets for 2114 02:19:08,190 --> 02:19:13,680 cash. Bill Prague, he's a hive guy through fountain 2000 SAS. 2115 02:19:13,680 --> 02:19:16,650 He says protocol that you use for pod paying as optional for 2116 02:19:16,650 --> 02:19:20,280 decentralized communities everyone can access. It also has 2117 02:19:20,280 --> 02:19:24,300 accounts that everyone that everyone can access. What you 2118 02:19:24,300 --> 02:19:27,570 were talking about apps is exactly what it is. What is 2119 02:19:27,570 --> 02:19:31,500 happening with apps on the protocol. I use one when I want 2120 02:19:31,530 --> 02:19:33,210 this is either autocorrect 2121 02:19:33,239 --> 02:19:35,819 Adam Curry: No, it's Brian. Brian bill is drying of London 2122 02:19:35,819 --> 02:19:42,989 writing under a pseudonym. Okay, Bill, Bill, yeah, Bill. 2123 02:19:44,760 --> 02:19:47,640 Dave Jones: I use one when I want to post something. Other 2124 02:19:47,640 --> 02:19:51,060 one for comments because as easy reply system, one that's better 2125 02:19:51,060 --> 02:19:53,850 for notifications, but all of them have access to the data and 2126 02:19:53,850 --> 02:20:00,360 are connected. Clearly a hive endorsement they're 20 to 20 Do 2127 02:20:00,420 --> 02:20:03,030 road ducks from car and it's no more just mere mortals podcast 2128 02:20:03,030 --> 02:20:05,760 they found he says apologies I've been MIA no you don't have 2129 02:20:05,760 --> 02:20:09,150 to apologize car and I'm trying to spend as much time as 2130 02:20:09,150 --> 02:20:12,810 possible learning Portuguese while whilst in Brazil. Dave 2131 02:20:12,810 --> 02:20:14,910 must have been a civil engineer in a previous life with the 2132 02:20:14,910 --> 02:20:16,170 amount of bridging he's doing. 2133 02:20:18,479 --> 02:20:20,279 Adam Curry: You can work in Baltimore anytime. 2134 02:20:23,010 --> 02:20:28,170 Dave Jones: Todd Cochran big T 50,000. Says the fountain been 2135 02:20:28,170 --> 02:20:30,990 listening but have been busier than a one legged man and ask 2136 02:20:30,990 --> 02:20:35,340 kicking contest. Sometimes you just got to put your head down 2137 02:20:35,490 --> 02:20:39,510 and work headed to pod fest Asia shortly to spread the Gospel. 2138 02:20:39,540 --> 02:20:40,470 Happy podcasting. 2139 02:20:40,469 --> 02:20:42,569 Adam Curry: That's right. That's right. Have a good trip, man. 2140 02:20:43,139 --> 02:20:46,859 Dave Jones: Thank you brother to see. Yes. And I do see the 2141 02:20:46,859 --> 02:20:49,379 Linkin Park rules. I get that one. So I'm going to jump over 2142 02:20:49,379 --> 02:20:53,519 here. delimiter limiter, calm straight blogger 24,000 SATs 2143 02:20:53,519 --> 02:20:56,249 through fountain he says Daddy Phillip Bitcoiners Adam and 2144 02:20:56,249 --> 02:21:00,869 Dave. Happy Bitcoin having to you. I would also like to 2145 02:21:00,869 --> 02:21:04,769 recommend the complex candour podcast. You're welcome to 2146 02:21:04,769 --> 02:21:09,209 subscribe it complex candour.com. The podcast covers 2147 02:21:09,209 --> 02:21:13,139 a variety of topics including language motivation, wellness, 2148 02:21:13,679 --> 02:21:18,839 join hosts Sam and Lady Vox for engaging discussions. Tune in to 2149 02:21:18,839 --> 02:21:22,679 complex candour where wisdom is gained through understanding new 2150 02:21:22,679 --> 02:21:25,469 episodes are released approximately every two weeks yo 2151 02:21:25,469 --> 02:21:26,189 CSB. 2152 02:21:26,399 --> 02:21:29,219 Adam Curry: Yo brother thank you always promoting other podcasts 2153 02:21:29,249 --> 02:21:29,759 lovely. 2154 02:21:31,260 --> 02:21:33,600 Dave Jones: We got some monthlies. We got yarn, 2155 02:21:33,600 --> 02:21:38,910 Rosenstein $1 Derek J. Vickery, the best name and podcasting. 2156 02:21:38,910 --> 02:21:45,210 2.0 $21. Paul Salzman. $22.22 Thank you Paul. Damon Cassie, 2157 02:21:45,210 --> 02:21:49,830 Jack $15 Thank you, Damon. Jeremy. gerdts $5 New Media 2158 02:21:49,830 --> 02:21:53,910 Productions that's Todd and Rob without Rob's permission $30 2159 02:21:54,390 --> 02:21:59,010 Wow, Michael Hall $5.50 And Satan's low you're down under 2160 02:21:59,010 --> 02:21:59,670 $5. 2161 02:22:00,210 --> 02:22:05,310 Adam Curry: Thank you. So thank you all so much. It's value for 2162 02:22:05,310 --> 02:22:08,370 value go to podcasts. index.org. Down at the bottom you'll see 2163 02:22:08,370 --> 02:22:13,050 two red donate buttons one for your entre on chain coins. Tally 2164 02:22:13,050 --> 02:22:16,230 coin, check. We had nothing. The other one for your Fiat fund 2165 02:22:16,230 --> 02:22:20,910 coupons at through PayPal and of course, modern podcast apps.com 2166 02:22:20,940 --> 02:22:24,690 In order to send us boosts that work. Well. We love reading your 2167 02:22:24,690 --> 02:22:30,150 notes. I want to thank all of the developers. We have a lot of 2168 02:22:30,150 --> 02:22:33,150 developers many behind the scenes who don't necessarily get 2169 02:22:33,150 --> 02:22:37,740 as much exposure Thank you Alex gates, Sir Brian of London. I 2170 02:22:37,740 --> 02:22:43,350 also want to thank Oscar for doing a great job on what is it? 2171 02:22:44,100 --> 02:22:47,730 Peter McCormick show? What happened was it what happened 2172 02:22:47,730 --> 02:22:51,300 with Bitcoin now what is it called? WhatsApp was Bitcoin 2173 02:22:51,300 --> 02:22:52,200 this No it's 2174 02:22:53,250 --> 02:22:54,990 Sam Sethi: right now and what happened with Bitcoin? 2175 02:22:55,890 --> 02:22:59,370 Adam Curry: But he has a soccer club. He has real Bedford Oh, 2176 02:22:59,760 --> 02:23:00,780 Dave Jones: oh, yeah. Yeah. 2177 02:23:01,680 --> 02:23:04,170 Adam Curry: The Oscar was on the show did a great he actually 2178 02:23:04,170 --> 02:23:09,870 said I want you to critique my appearance. And be honest. I 2179 02:23:09,870 --> 02:23:13,260 don't know if he's recovered. But he did a really he did a 2180 02:23:13,260 --> 02:23:16,710 really good job, and really appreciate what you do Oscar. 2181 02:23:17,940 --> 02:23:22,860 Thank you also to develop Remo from true fans who I don't even 2182 02:23:22,860 --> 02:23:26,010 know if he has time to listen to podcast but his work is also 2183 02:23:26,010 --> 02:23:29,850 appreciated. And of course, our guest today in the boardroom Sam 2184 02:23:29,850 --> 02:23:33,600 Sethi. Sam, thank you so much. You're You're really a guiding 2185 02:23:33,600 --> 02:23:36,660 light. I love that you're stepping forward to lead the 2186 02:23:36,660 --> 02:23:41,580 PSP. Thank you for being completely reckless and crazy. 2187 02:23:42,000 --> 02:23:46,620 We appreciate you for that. We really do. I mean, it's you know 2188 02:23:46,620 --> 02:23:49,110 sometimes Dave and I'll get Did you can see that email from Sam. 2189 02:23:49,110 --> 02:23:51,120 We're like, Yeah, do you understand now no idea what he's 2190 02:23:51,120 --> 02:23:56,730 talking about. So much, so much. But, but now this this is 2191 02:23:56,730 --> 02:24:00,150 exactly what we need. When we are the Skunk Works. We are 2192 02:24:00,150 --> 02:24:02,580 reckless. We do run with scissors and you're a fine 2193 02:24:02,580 --> 02:24:04,920 example of it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for 2194 02:24:04,920 --> 02:24:06,900 staying up late for being with us today. 2195 02:24:07,229 --> 02:24:09,329 Sam Sethi: I'm going to pop off this. I'm not drinking. I'm 2196 02:24:09,329 --> 02:24:14,789 going to the pub. Yeah. Look at other people, 2197 02:24:14,910 --> 02:24:17,460 Adam Curry: observing people being drunk. Okay, there you go. 2198 02:24:17,760 --> 02:24:21,390 Perfect. Perfect. Yeah, have yourself a great weekend and 2199 02:24:21,780 --> 02:24:22,710 happy happenings. 2200 02:24:23,760 --> 02:24:25,350 Sam Sethi: Thank you for inviting me guys. I loved it. 2201 02:24:26,010 --> 02:24:27,750 Adam Curry: Of course we'd love to have you back. Thank you very 2202 02:24:27,750 --> 02:24:30,510 much boardroom you guys. Were great today. Dave brothers. 2203 02:24:30,510 --> 02:24:32,250 Thank you so much. What are you laughing? 2204 02:24:32,790 --> 02:24:35,850 Dave Jones: Eric PPC is dedicated the activity pub. 2205 02:24:40,650 --> 02:24:46,590 Whoa. All right. I'm back right under the wire. Beautiful. 2206 02:24:46,860 --> 02:24:48,930 Adam Curry: All right, Dave. I'll talk to next week brother 2207 02:24:48,990 --> 02:24:53,820 have a great vacation. Thank you so much for being with us here 2208 02:24:53,820 --> 02:24:56,160 in the boardroom. We look forward to doing it next Friday, 2209 02:24:56,190 --> 02:24:59,160 everything and more right here on podcasting 2.0 2210 02:25:15,569 --> 02:25:20,129 Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast 2211 02:25:20,129 --> 02:25:24,269 index.org For more information, podcast. 2212 02:25:25,500 --> 02:25:26,940 Good girl, baby