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Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for
March 8 2024, episode 170 ones

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and zeros. Well hello everybody.
Welcome to podcasting. 2.0 the

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podcast, this podcast I'm
talking about the past the

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current and the present of all
podcasting. That's right. This

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is the board meeting and we are
a boardroom that meets every

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week come rain or come shine I'm
Adam curry here in the heart of

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the Texas Hill Country and in
Alabama. The man whose to do

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list is longer than his Server
migration logs please say hello

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to my friend on the other end
the one and only Mr. De Jones

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you made it you made we're
having a show we're barely

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having a show.

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Dave Jones: It's better than not
having a show you're you're

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Adam Curry: literally came to
the board meeting with baling

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wire gaffer tape and crayons.
Yeah. gooby gone and stuff.

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Whatever. crayons. Crayons.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, this was like,
I came in here and this is how

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it started. All right, great.
Grandma beef milkshake. Yes.

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Adam Curry: Those

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Dave Jones: grab the blended up
the beef milkshake in a hurry,

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as usual. And then come in here
and it's 12:27pm Yes. I first

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thing I do is always change
crank up the chat room. That's

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that started fine. No problems
in the terminal client. Then I

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opened brave to get into clean
feed. So I click brave and I

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look away for a minute and I
look back and brave is not on

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the screen.

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Adam Curry: What was on the
screen? Nothing. Nothing. Was it

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blocked? Like

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Dave Jones: yeah, I was like
whoa, wait a sec. It's still

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just a desktop. Where's brave? I
click it again. Nothing? Wait,

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what what's going on? So then I
go to pull up I gotta check H

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top to see if the process is
right. This is only been to you

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as this podcast which is Ubuntu

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Adam Curry: your your Ubuntu
install has been nothing but

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trouble. It's just as rapid

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Dave Jones: is not trouble
anymore because it's dead.

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Adam Curry: All right, okay.
It's

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Dave Jones: like went so there's
nothing in H top nine. What is

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going on? I pull up.

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Adam Curry: Like you heartstart
H top and there was nothing in

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the list.

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Dave Jones: No, there was no no
brave. Okay, okay. I gotcha.

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Yeah. But then I hit I'm like,
you know, I wonder if this is

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disk space. So open a do a df
space in

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Adam Curry: a dash H for human
readable? Yeah, for human

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readable.

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Dave Jones: And it says 100%
usage. There's 0% free.

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Adam Curry: I'll do it every
time. Oh

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Dave Jones: crap. So I tried to
reboot cleaned up some space

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cleaned everything out. I could
think of clean and I had like

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four gigs free. rebooted, and it
just would not come back up. It

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was completely dead.

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Adam Curry: What what is your
log file? What what rants Oh,

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nuts on your I don't know. Is
this is this your your Umbral as

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well? Oh blockchain. Blockchain
is on a separate vault. Oh,

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okay.

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Dave Jones: It's on a complete
it's on a different physical

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disk. Actually.

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Adam Curry: The Bitcoin went up
so high that is ruined your

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display. It's

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Dave Jones: 70. And it was like,

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Adam Curry: everything melted
down when that thing hits 70

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It's beautiful to watch.

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Dave Jones: It was low. This is
like Altamaha, Pfeiffer

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syndrome. Oh,

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Adam Curry: well, yeah, of
course. Of course, there was a

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guy who sold or a guy Somebody
sold 1000 Bitcoin when it hit,

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you know, the all time high two
days ago or three days ago,

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whatever it was really? Oh,
yeah. I mean, okay, that day,

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that'll drop the price on did
$70 million in one goes

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Beautiful. Good Lord have mercy.
But even but even more beautiful

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as I just love. I love for all
our everyone who's a part of

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value for value our app
developers, people who have

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systems, you know, podcasters
musicians, everybody is seeing

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an increase in in the value they
received. It's just got to be a

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good feeling for everybody.
Yeah, it really has to be. I

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mean, it's it's, I mean, my
nephew who's was like 24. You

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know, I told him two years ago,
I said to just buy a little bit

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each day, leave it alone. Don't
look at it, and he texts me. But

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bitcoins going crazy. I can buy
a new laptop. I'm like, No,

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think about it. You can buy a
laptop now. Or maybe you could

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buy a boat in two years. He's
like, Ah, so yeah, this is this

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is the conundrum that Bitcoin
brings you. Like it's teaching,

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you know, I have now I mean, I
just see what's happening and I

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see that Bitcoin of people going
out some people who are

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listening will laugh, but It's
like a savings and a saving

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technology for the working poor
for the middle class. And it's

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teaching our new young
generation about value. Because

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when I was growing up, what are
you? What are you knocking

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around? Are you building a
robot? Or what do you do? In the

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middle of my bitcoin pitch,
you're like

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Dave Jones: you don't understand
what state of mind

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Adam Curry: I'm trying to calm
you down. I'm trying to calm me

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down. I'm just trying to change
things are you broadcasting from

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Jhansi DeVore X office now it
sounds like all the CANS on the

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ground and stuff.

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Dave Jones: I was just trying to
move a plate out of the way

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after. It was like one thing
after another after another, and

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all of a sudden, something fell
off the shelf and I'm trying not

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to die. Please, please continue
with.

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Adam Curry: I'll go back. So
it's, it's a savings technology,

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which is how I've been using it.
You know, we buy a little bit

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every single day when we've been
doing that since it was under

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$4,000. But it's just, it's so
it's this five year cycle. And

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so it's great for the working
poor, the middle class, and it's

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teaching a whole new generation
about value about true value

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when I was growing up, they
would tell us well, you know,

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it's like compounding interest.
And if you save a penny a day,

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you'll be a millionaire. And
when you're 40. Of course, what

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they forgot to tell us is that
while your interest rate maybe

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5%, your government is devaluing
your money at 10% a year. Right?

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Exactly. So Bitcoin really does
the inverse of that which is

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it's, it's really it's turning
into a beautiful thing. Now

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that's been legitimized, and
people can buy in on Wall

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Street. And I think this this,
as they say, this bull run this

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bull, you know, this bull
season, whatever you want to

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call it, that it is going to
help some people figure this

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out. And I really love X. In
fact, I wanted to play the clip

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from this week in Bitcoin, which
is my new favorite weekly. Thank

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you very much. You're our man
over there. Jupiter

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broadcasting. Oh, Chris. Yeah.
Yeah, cuz he, I think he boosted

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us last week and said, Oh, you
know, you should check this. I

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love it. I love it. And it comes
out on Friday, which is it

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competes a little bit with POD
news weekly review, but I was

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able to make it work. And so
there was this big conference

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Bitcoin Atlantis, which I didn't
even know about until I saw

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Intel, I saw some stuff come
through. And, and this is about

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data. And it's free, you know,
kind of forget the Bitcoin part.

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But just think about data. And
this is really how, when you and

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I consented this early on, the
idea of value for value is

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nothing more than ones and
zeros. You know, being sent

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through the internet. And it
reassembles. It's in an mp3

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format. It reassembles into your
ears, and you hear it and you

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know, from whatever that it's
just pure data ones and zeros is

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assembles, you would for
whatever it is you're listening

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to it, you get value from it,
and you literally turn around,

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hit a button and said ones and
zeros back. Right. But the

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perception of value is, is
something that I think we're

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finally coming to terms with in
the world. And this is Lawrence

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Leppard. I'm not even sure where
he's from. But he, I think,

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maybe was an investor or is an
investor. And he made a very

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interesting comparison, which I
want to play a clip of, you

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know,

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Unknown: in the early 80s, I
started my business career, the

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IBM PC was introduced in 1980.
And Microsoft came public in

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1986, came public at 14 times
trailing and growing 40% a year.

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And at the time, if you were in
the computer business, you were

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at IBM, or prime, or DAC or
Wang, and, you know, mini

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computer was really the thing
and a lot of people regarded

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these PCs and toys. And I think
it's an interesting analogy that

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back at that point in time.
Software was regarded as risky,

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because it was ones and zeros
and people didn't see that there

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could be any value in it there
was like, How can there be value

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in the software, it's just
written its code, it has no

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value. The values in the disk
drives the values at IBM the

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values in these hardware,
computers, people who are making

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real stuff. sounds kind of
familiar, right? And I recall, a

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little further back, wind it
back. I'm on the business school

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and I'm with my business school
roommate. He's with his roommate

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from Harvard College guy named
Steve Ballmer are walking along

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the Charles River and bomber
says we've got this thing called

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Doss and the entire world is
going to need this thing. The

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entire world. Everybody is going
to have it that's going to be a

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part of everybody's life. This
is going to be a multi billion

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dollar corporation. I looked at
him I thought he was nuts. But

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then it kind of hit me. He
wasn't nuts. It was the base

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layer of the technology that
allowed the PC to grow. And 40

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years later, it is ubiquitous
and bombers obviously a

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billionaire and Microsoft's a
multi billion dollar company. I

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mean, I bought it at the time in
In 86, when it came public sold

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it three years later to buy a
condo was a mistake. There's a

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split adjusted price is six
cents, and the stock trades at

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you know, $290 today. So it was,
you know, 47,000 times your

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money or 4700 times your money.
The point I'm trying to make is,

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Bitcoin is the same thing and
people don't understand that

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they don't understand that it is
a bit the base layer of money,

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and it is going to absorb the
entire monetary system. Given a

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long enough timeframe, at least
in my opinion.

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Adam Curry: I just really liked
the idea of of showing that data

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ones and zeros can be very
valuable just depending on how

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you assemble it. And, and the
same goes for RSS, the exact

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same thing. RSS data is is going
to be incredibly valuable move

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it already is. Unless of course,
you work at Andreessen Horowitz

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and you're a douche. Here's
another clip. This guy Chris

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Dixon, have you ever heard of
this guy?

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Dave Jones: This name sounds
very familiar. Someone

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Adam Curry: sent me this sent me
a link to the YouTube which I

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put in our show notes and and a
clip. Excuse me. He's one of the

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founders of Andreessen Horowitz.
And these guys are all about web

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three, dead the future
blockchain and he wrote a book

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called Homeless second, I have
the description here.

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Dave Jones: It's called why I'm
better than you. Pretty much

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Adam Curry: Chris Dixon has been
a general partner at Andreessen

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Horowitz since 2012. He founded
and leaves a16z. Crypto, which

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invests in web three
technologies. Through four

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decades funds with more than $7
billion under management, this

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has got to be the smartest guy
in the world. Previously, Chris

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was the co founder and CEO of
two startups, site advisor,

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never heard of and hunch and
also never, but they were

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acquired. So it makes sense. In
this wide ranging conversation,

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that Chris discusses the
evolution of the Internet, the

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current relationship between AI
and cryptocurrencies, and how

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the web three movement could
inspire a new political

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ideology, okay, whatever. But he
said this thing about RSS, which

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is so, so tone deaf is what I'll
call it.

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Unknown: And then I think
specifically, you had kind of a

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horse race. For those who were
really in the weeds back then

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there were there were things
like RSS, which is a open

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protocol for doing social
networking, which in the mid

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2000s, seemed like a credible
competitor to some of the

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proprietary social networks. Of
course, that lost, you know,

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it's still around, but it's, you
know, most people you talk to on

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the street don't say they use
RSS as their social media. A

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lot. One of the critiques of my
book so far has been that RSS is

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actually very successful. Why is
successful?

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Adam Curry: The guy interviewing
or whatever is

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Unknown: successful, why is not
successful at its original

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vision at all? Yeah, I mean,
it's like HTTP two there uses

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transport layers in some cases,
but they're not, you know,

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they're not the you don't ask an
average person, how you get your

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social media, and they say RSS,
right? They go through a

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company. And so anyway, so that
kind of led my argument is that

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led to the current state today,
where you have a small number of

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companies who through these,
these network effects have now

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consolidated power. Right?
Right. So in the context of what

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a blockchain is, blockchains are
they basically my core argument

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in the second half of the book
is they provide a new way to

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create networks. Yeah,

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Adam Curry: run with your money
away from that guy as fast as

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possible.

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Dave Jones: Yes. Yeah.

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Adam Curry: I mean, that shows
you the complete ignorance,

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which we could call nice. I
learned that the word nice in

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Latin also means ignorant to
he's a nice guy.

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Dave Jones: Like this, like this
play on words. Yes. He's

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Adam Curry: a very nice guy.
And, and he he's completely

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missing the point as to what I
mean. Does he even know that RSS

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powers podcasts? And what do you
think does he think is YouTube?

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I'm not sure. And then, yes, go
ahead.

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Dave Jones: No, I was gonna say
if the if the podcast industrial

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advertising complex, if they had
their way he would think that

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YouTube is podcasting is exactly

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Adam Curry: exactly. So then
show

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Dave Jones: bear. But

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Adam Curry: yes, this is
actually this show beer today is

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a gigawatt Coffee Roasters,
Ethiopian Yirgacheffe. Snack,

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snap to coffee. Yikes.

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Dave Jones: Yes. Yes. That
sounds impressive. Yes,

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Adam Curry: I will be trippin
balls by the end of the show,

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for sure. So then, I go to the
new generation, the generation

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who gets it, who understands
what we're trying to do with

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value for value, and he's on a
little stage at the Bitcoin

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Atlantis. You know, I think it's
called the Open Source stage,

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which you know, The it irks me
to no end because Bitcoin

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Conference does that as well.
What is the big Bitcoin

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Conference?

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Dave Jones: They have the
Bitcoin magazine thing Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, I know.

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Adam Curry: That tent over there
where it's 150 degrees. That's

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the open source stage that's
where you belong little boys and

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girls, but

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Dave Jones: it's like the it's
like the podcasting 2.0 session

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Podcast Movement in the bag next
behind behind the lunch, you

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know the cafeteria or whatever.
Yeah, they will

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Adam Curry: they will rue the
day they did that by the way.

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Yeah, sure. And who is there
explaining value for value but

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none other than fountains very
own Oscar Mary. So,

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Dave Jones: how do you approach
this? What are what are your

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Adam Curry: by the way the
conversation at this point has

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been not so nice in Austin,
Austin, Austin, Austin, Austin,

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Austin, Austin, Austin, Austin,
Austin Austin not Nasir Nasir

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tools, tools, tools, tools.
noster noster. Thank you. Here

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comes Oscar. So

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Unknown: how do you approach
this? What are what are your

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views on that if

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Oscar Merry: a value on the
other side of the equation?

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Yeah, I think just one thing I'd
like to mention quickly, before

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I talk about the tools that
we're building is that there's

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actually three components to
value for value. The first is

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the monetary component. But
often people think that it's

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just that that value for value
is just about how much money you

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can from your audience. But
there's actually two other

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really important parts to this.
And the way that we like to

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frame this is with the concept
of time, talent, and treasure.

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So as an audience member or
somebody that gets value from

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the content that you listen to,
or watch, you can contribute

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value back, not just through
your money through your stats,

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but also through, you know,
sharing that content, providing

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feedback, adding to the content.
So time, talent and treasure is

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really important. And when we're
building tools, we need to

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enable that not just the
monetary flow. To answer your

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question specifically, though, I
think that, you know, the state

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of the tools that enable value
for value, you know, is only

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just starting to emerge to
mainstream mainstream audience

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can actually use it and use it
in an enjoyable way. Like, if

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you take the fountain app, you
know, maybe some of you have

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used it before, but only in
December did we have our 1.0

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release. And now, we're
comfortable saying that, okay,

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this is a podcast app, where if
you're coming from Spotify, if

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you're coming from Apple
podcasts, the UX is there, the

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design is there. And also the
features that highlight value

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for value, encourage listeners
to contribute, give users

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feedback, positive feedback,
when they do contribute, we're

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only just starting to kind of
surface these features. And

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feedback is a really, really
important part. When you send

305
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those sites, if you don't kind
of receive some kind of response

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from the content creator, then
you're probably going to drop

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off and never do it again. And I
think if you look at Noster, you

308
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know, just zapping the posts, I
don't think that's enough to

309
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really drive significant amounts
of revenue. Talking about the

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ANZ Costello example, that you
mentioned, Avi, that was an

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example where the tools, the
feedback tools did exist. So you

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had, you know, a ranked list of
all of the booths. And what that

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did was encourage all of the
live audience to support more

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and more to try and get to the
top. I think those kinds of

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features are only just starting
to be introduced. And we need a

316
00:18:45,690 --> 00:18:49,500
lot more of them. That kind of
encourage people and give them

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that positive feedback that
they're making a difference.

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Beautiful.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, totally.
beaut

320
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Adam Curry: it's amazing. It's
been 15 seconds and Sam Sethi

321
00:19:00,990 --> 00:19:05,250
has not yet boosted in that.
True fans is doing all of this.

322
00:19:05,250 --> 00:19:11,430
I'm surprised because he is
because he is That's why That's

323
00:19:11,430 --> 00:19:12,780
why yes, he is.

324
00:19:14,220 --> 00:19:17,460
Dave Jones: This. So this this
is kind of in line with some

325
00:19:17,460 --> 00:19:20,040
things I've been thinking about
because the big thing this week,

326
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,600
or one at one of the big things
this week has to really last a

327
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:29,220
few weeks, honestly is the Apple
for Apple versus EU.

328
00:19:29,910 --> 00:19:33,210
Adam Curry: Oh, yes. PWA is
versus everything else.

329
00:19:33,810 --> 00:19:36,450
Dave Jones: Yeah. And you know,
part of the problem with with

330
00:19:36,450 --> 00:19:41,130
this is, it's very hard to
follow, because there's a lot

331
00:19:41,130 --> 00:19:46,680
going on at once. And you end up
I think Sam and James ended up

332
00:19:47,220 --> 00:19:50,220
sort of crossing some wires on
this too when I was listening.

333
00:19:50,340 --> 00:19:51,000
Oh wait, there's

334
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:56,550
Adam Curry: MCFD Let me check.
Is this Oh, no, no, no, not yet.

335
00:19:56,580 --> 00:19:58,500
Sorry. Okay. It's

336
00:19:58,500 --> 00:20:00,720
Dave Jones: given to him. He's
he's on In this first class of

337
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:07,830
one. So, you know, the issue has
been a couple of things happen.

338
00:20:07,830 --> 00:20:11,670
And there's, there's the, the
DMA, the digital markets act in

339
00:20:11,670 --> 00:20:16,800
the EU, which told Apple
effectively that they had to

340
00:20:17,100 --> 00:20:22,140
open up and allow alternative
app stores. Yeah, that those

341
00:20:22,140 --> 00:20:26,250
rules are not those rules are
not fully in effect yet. And

342
00:20:26,490 --> 00:20:29,460
Apple released their plan for
what they're going to do and how

343
00:20:29,460 --> 00:20:34,200
they're going to comply. And
that was one thing, then you had

344
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,880
this fine that came out of this
$2 billion fine became out for

345
00:20:39,210 --> 00:20:45,000
their behavior in relate in, in
relation to music, the music

346
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,470
industry, digital rose,

347
00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:48,900
Adam Curry: specifically from
Spotify for it, right.

348
00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:52,650
Dave Jones: Yeah, the Spotify,
you know, attack is, essentially

349
00:20:52,650 --> 00:20:55,980
is what that was. So you've got,
you've got these two things

350
00:20:55,980 --> 00:21:00,060
happening at the same time. And
these, we haven't talked much

351
00:21:00,060 --> 00:21:04,650
about this and fairly for good
reason. Because I mean, it's not

352
00:21:04,650 --> 00:21:10,050
really what, what our thing is,
but it does affect ad

353
00:21:10,050 --> 00:21:14,160
developers, I mean, affects true
fans with the data in the here

354
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,410
and here's the third thing, they
they said, Okay, we're gonna

355
00:21:16,410 --> 00:21:19,740
enroll in response to the PWA.
As far as response to the DMA

356
00:21:19,860 --> 00:21:23,310
thing, and you're in Europe,
we're going to not do PWA

357
00:21:23,310 --> 00:21:25,890
support on iPhone anymore. And
then they and then they

358
00:21:25,890 --> 00:21:28,890
backtracked on that, right. This
is a bit, this has all been a

359
00:21:28,890 --> 00:21:37,590
very, very messy thing. And that
it affects app developers, for

360
00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:41,580
sure. Specifically, podcast app
developers, I mean, all of them.

361
00:21:41,580 --> 00:21:45,510
But podcast app developers, for
sure. It affects the affected

362
00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:50,130
Sam with true fans. Anybody that
wants to create a podcast, web

363
00:21:50,340 --> 00:21:55,170
PWA, all the work that Andrew
grommet is doing. Also, anybody

364
00:21:55,170 --> 00:21:58,410
who just simply wants to make a
living writing an app or having

365
00:21:58,410 --> 00:22:03,600
an enhanced selling it, which is
quite a few podcasts that do a

366
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,550
lot, a lot of them don't care,
they do it for the fun of it.

367
00:22:05,550 --> 00:22:10,530
And they do it for the for the
giggles, but in the edification

368
00:22:10,530 --> 00:22:15,330
of coding, that a lot of them do
want to make some revenue off of

369
00:22:15,330 --> 00:22:16,650
it. I

370
00:22:16,650 --> 00:22:19,950
Adam Curry: think everybody
wants to be valued. No matter

371
00:22:19,950 --> 00:22:22,350
what, that's a good way to put
it. And can I just interrupt you

372
00:22:22,350 --> 00:22:24,450
for one second? Yeah, sure. Wow.

373
00:22:25,110 --> 00:22:28,890
Unknown: Sakala 20 is Blaze on
am Paula

374
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,480
Adam Curry: 100,000 SATs from
Sam Sethi. Whoa, I have given up

375
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:38,490
telling people what we are doing
smiley face. Okay. That's how

376
00:22:38,490 --> 00:22:42,060
you do value for value people.
That's how you do you ask? And

377
00:22:42,060 --> 00:22:42,780
he delivers?

378
00:22:43,380 --> 00:22:46,740
Dave Jones: Don't? Don't give
that up. Sam, keep doing it.

379
00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:47,490
Yeah, of course,

380
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,170
Adam Curry: don't give up at
all. Absolutely.

381
00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:54,990
Dave Jones: Yes. So this has all
been very messy and haven't

382
00:22:54,990 --> 00:23:00,300
really but then then this thing
happened this week with the two,

383
00:23:00,330 --> 00:23:02,790
you know, the $2 billion AWS
customers just start thinking

384
00:23:02,820 --> 00:23:10,020
when it comes to when it comes
to monopoly and competition, and

385
00:23:10,020 --> 00:23:13,770
antitrust. And these sorts of
things, I think that it's

386
00:23:13,770 --> 00:23:21,750
important to keep some kind of
some stuff in mind. You gotta

387
00:23:21,750 --> 00:23:26,250
kind of read, what's the best
way? So you gotta you have to

388
00:23:26,250 --> 00:23:30,060
read your brain of the idea.
First of all, that is that these

389
00:23:30,060 --> 00:23:33,030
are left right issues. This is
not it has nothing to do with

390
00:23:33,030 --> 00:23:40,140
that. But people on every
political side of things will

391
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,430
will alternatively support or
not support. The various aspects

392
00:23:44,430 --> 00:23:48,630
of antitrust and monopoly
legislation is really it does

393
00:23:48,630 --> 00:23:52,350
not fall cleanly to plenty of
people on both sides that are a

394
00:23:52,350 --> 00:23:58,170
staunch advocates of hardcore
government level regulation. And

395
00:23:58,170 --> 00:24:04,950
some that aren't. The but then
the other thing is, I think this

396
00:24:04,950 --> 00:24:07,470
is critical, you have to
remember that government

397
00:24:07,470 --> 00:24:15,030
regulation is just another is
just a product like anything

398
00:24:15,030 --> 00:24:18,870
else. So if, you know if you're
a company,

399
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:21,750
Adam Curry: that's very
interesting way of describing

400
00:24:21,780 --> 00:24:26,040
it. And government regulation is
just a product. I like it. Yeah,

401
00:24:26,070 --> 00:24:29,310
Dave Jones: it affects the
market in the same way that any

402
00:24:29,310 --> 00:24:33,870
other competition does. So if
you're apple, and you have a

403
00:24:33,870 --> 00:24:39,240
hard time getting something,
getting a supplier to provide

404
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:45,270
you with a with a part with a
part that you need for a price,

405
00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:51,930
this is not going to affect your
your cost adversely. That's

406
00:24:51,930 --> 00:24:55,470
really at the end of the day, no
different than what a government

407
00:24:55,470 --> 00:24:59,970
regulation might do to you. Your
it's still just different ads.

408
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,480
aspects of the competition that
you face on a daily basis.

409
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,590
Right? So government is just
another competitor. In a sense,

410
00:25:08,130 --> 00:25:11,790
the biggest the biggest
competition large companies have

411
00:25:12,450 --> 00:25:17,700
is themselves. Their internal
problems are their biggest

412
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:18,930
issues see

413
00:25:18,930 --> 00:25:21,450
Adam Curry: Google who can't
launch a new product for their

414
00:25:21,450 --> 00:25:23,280
life? Exactly.

415
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,830
Dave Jones: So okay, I've got a
theory on that out, but I'll,

416
00:25:25,950 --> 00:25:27,420
I'll put

417
00:25:27,420 --> 00:25:30,840
Adam Curry: a pin in it. Put a
circle back. Yes.

418
00:25:32,310 --> 00:25:37,740
Dave Jones: The end. So the
these huge, these huge company

419
00:25:37,740 --> 00:25:43,140
and I think the reason I thought
about all this was because I

420
00:25:43,140 --> 00:25:46,290
didn't expect you to go straight
into the Bitcoin angle

421
00:25:46,740 --> 00:25:51,960
immediately. And when you did,
it made me think in these terms,

422
00:25:51,990 --> 00:26:00,600
and so the, these huge companies
they fight against their own

423
00:26:00,630 --> 00:26:06,480
laziness, their own
entrenchment. Their, their own

424
00:26:06,510 --> 00:26:11,610
hubris, hubris, their own
pilfering of people out of

425
00:26:11,610 --> 00:26:15,600
important parts of the company
into parts that are not

426
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:20,190
important. There's so many
things internally to accompany

427
00:26:20,370 --> 00:26:24,660
that cause it to go towards
dysfunction. It's sort of like a

428
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:25,140
well, it's just

429
00:26:25,140 --> 00:26:27,570
Adam Curry: like an open source
project, except people hang in

430
00:26:27,570 --> 00:26:28,800
there because they're getting
paid.

431
00:26:30,180 --> 00:26:33,120
Dave Jones: Because they have a
401k Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah,

432
00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:35,640
if we had 401 K's people would
be geography,

433
00:26:36,690 --> 00:26:38,430
Adam Curry: very mad at each
other all day long.

434
00:26:40,500 --> 00:26:45,750
Dave Jones: And so the, the
history of monopoly law, and

435
00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:51,360
because of this reason, because
of that, truth, the history of

436
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:58,590
monopoly law, and antitrust is a
history of short sightedness.

437
00:26:58,950 --> 00:27:02,580
And you can just see it the the
whole history of antitrust is

438
00:27:02,580 --> 00:27:08,520
littered with it sounds like I'm
defending apple here. It's going

439
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,640
to but I'm not really this is
I'm just kind of talking in

440
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:17,520
general in general terms here.
Breaking up Standard Oil, when

441
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,090
they had already failed to make
the transition from kerosene to

442
00:27:21,090 --> 00:27:28,440
gasoline. They were at antitrust
legislation was they missed the

443
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,580
mark. Yeah, they breaking up
Microsoft or a talking about

444
00:27:32,580 --> 00:27:35,520
breaking up Microsoft when the
web was about to eat their

445
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,930
lunch. And democracy was all the
applications off of the PC and

446
00:27:39,930 --> 00:27:47,280
onto the onto the web. That the
again day late and $1 short you

447
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:53,010
know, talking about breaking up
Google when the when search is

448
00:27:53,010 --> 00:27:57,780
about to fail. These are these
are hitting breaking up AT and T

449
00:27:57,900 --> 00:28:00,630
when they missed the mark of
switching from landlines, but

450
00:28:00,630 --> 00:28:03,750
they were about to get their
lunch eaten by wireless and when

451
00:28:03,750 --> 00:28:07,680
they were all in on landline.
There's every day trying to

452
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,240
break up IBM when everything was
when they had a dominance in

453
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,540
mainframe, but they were about
to get their lunch eaten by PCs.

454
00:28:16,590 --> 00:28:20,430
This antitrust in college and
monopoly and competition law

455
00:28:21,330 --> 00:28:28,290
always always fails to see the
next sea change that's about to

456
00:28:28,290 --> 00:28:29,070
happen. In fact, I

457
00:28:29,070 --> 00:28:31,380
Adam Curry: would based on your
argument, I would say they're

458
00:28:31,380 --> 00:28:37,470
going hand in hand. It actually
benefits these companies. Yes,

459
00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:41,250
yes. Yeah. And the shareholders
and the shareholders.

460
00:28:42,180 --> 00:28:45,270
Dave Jones: Yeah, companies are
dumb. That's the other part of

461
00:28:45,270 --> 00:28:47,700
this you know companies are dumb
they chase things remember?

462
00:28:48,210 --> 00:28:52,410
Remember clubhouse and how
everybody wants to say for about

463
00:28:52,410 --> 00:28:53,400
six months oh

464
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:56,040
Adam Curry: six months it was
longer than that and we sat here

465
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,870
and went no, no, no, no, no, we
had no dog in the hunt because

466
00:29:00,870 --> 00:29:06,150
we have no money or product and
we went No that's not it. Before

467
00:29:06,150 --> 00:29:08,670
Dave Jones: that it was it was
blockchain. It was machine

468
00:29:08,670 --> 00:29:12,750
learning. It was self driving
cars. It was augmented reality

469
00:29:12,810 --> 00:29:13,380
on cars

470
00:29:13,380 --> 00:29:16,500
Adam Curry: flying cars is next
time I love the flying cars.

471
00:29:16,650 --> 00:29:22,800
Look it has 6060 miles of range
Okay, okay. Before you need to

472
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,960
charge for five hours okay.

473
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,080
Dave Jones: The bigger the well
you know Apple just get they

474
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,920
just can't finally canceled
their smartly smartly car thing

475
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:32,250
but they

476
00:29:32,250 --> 00:29:35,310
Adam Curry: were they were
hiring people for a salary of a

477
00:29:35,310 --> 00:29:39,060
million dollars and bonuses of
millions of dollars in stock

478
00:29:39,060 --> 00:29:39,750
options.

479
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,660
Dave Jones: And a bet they're
doing the same thing right now

480
00:29:42,660 --> 00:29:45,510
with their we're gearing up for
large language models for sure

481
00:29:45,540 --> 00:29:50,340
for sure. And the bigger the
company the worst this effect is

482
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,690
the biggest companies are the
ones that always shoot

483
00:29:54,690 --> 00:29:58,890
themselves in the foot. And your
companies are just groups of

484
00:29:58,890 --> 00:30:05,070
people. governments are just
groups of people. Oftentimes

485
00:30:05,070 --> 00:30:10,290
they're the same people. In
government people groups aren't

486
00:30:10,290 --> 00:30:15,780
any smarter than company people
groups. So, Fred, I don't know

487
00:30:15,780 --> 00:30:18,750
if you've ever read the law,
about Frederic Bastiat?

488
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,110
Adam Curry: No, I have not
French

489
00:30:22,710 --> 00:30:30,630
Dave Jones: economist. He? I
think he was 1870s 1880s,

490
00:30:30,630 --> 00:30:39,450
perhaps. Yeah. So he is, the law
is a fantastic thing is a very

491
00:30:39,450 --> 00:30:44,370
short book. And his basic
premise is very easy to

492
00:30:44,550 --> 00:30:51,570
construe. His premise is that if
it's not moral for you, for you,

493
00:30:51,570 --> 00:30:56,130
as a person to do it, to do a
thing, then that thing doesn't

494
00:30:56,130 --> 00:31:00,120
become moral, because you get a
bunch of friends together and do

495
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:05,640
it as a group. So he's basically
saying you do more morality does

496
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:11,190
not follow whether or not how
many people are involved. If a

497
00:31:11,340 --> 00:31:14,610
if an individual cannot do if
it's immoral for an individual

498
00:31:14,610 --> 00:31:18,330
to do a thing. It's also immoral
for a group of individuals to do

499
00:31:18,330 --> 00:31:21,870
the same thing. That's his whole
theory of government basically

500
00:31:21,870 --> 00:31:23,310
boiled down into one sentence,

501
00:31:23,340 --> 00:31:25,290
Adam Curry: I asked Chad GPT

502
00:31:26,730 --> 00:31:29,370
Dave Jones: would you like the
quick summary? Oh, yes, please.

503
00:31:29,460 --> 00:31:29,700
In

504
00:31:29,700 --> 00:31:31,830
Adam Curry: the book, he argues
that the purpose of law should

505
00:31:31,830 --> 00:31:34,770
be to protect individual rights
and property rather than to

506
00:31:34,770 --> 00:31:37,980
redistribute wealth or regulate
people's lives. He criticizes

507
00:31:37,980 --> 00:31:41,400
government intervention in the
economy, arguing that it often

508
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,700
leads to unintended consequences
and violates individual's

509
00:31:44,700 --> 00:31:48,150
natural rights. He advocates for
limited government that respects

510
00:31:48,180 --> 00:31:51,120
individual liberty and allows
for voluntary cooperation in

511
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,280
society. Sounds like Trump.

512
00:31:55,740 --> 00:32:03,480
Dave Jones: Yes, he's nice. He's
19th century French. But that

513
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:09,480
it's like this, this. This, you
can't you can't go, you know,

514
00:32:09,510 --> 00:32:14,430
you can't can't go string
somebody up in in in response to

515
00:32:14,430 --> 00:32:17,400
something, you know, vigilante
justice, you can't get you go

516
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:22,260
string and people up. And then
as an individual, but you also

517
00:32:22,260 --> 00:32:26,130
can't then get a bunch of people
together and do it. And then it

518
00:32:26,130 --> 00:32:29,730
becomes okay. And right. And
it's like, and you end because

519
00:32:29,730 --> 00:32:34,770
you call that group government.
Yeah. Doesn't also doesn't make

520
00:32:34,770 --> 00:32:37,230
it okay. Just magically, because
you've changed the name of the

521
00:32:37,230 --> 00:32:41,280
group to something that we all
understand. Yeah. So this, this

522
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:47,430
is the this is the whole basis
of a sort of the framework I

523
00:32:47,430 --> 00:32:53,100
think we're finding ourselves in
right now is the the EU

524
00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:57,360
specifically, but this is also
happening in the US. The FTC is

525
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,800
very aggressive right now. Oh,
yeah. They are always going to

526
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:06,570
miss the mark. So this is what
I'm trying to say. If you if you

527
00:33:06,570 --> 00:33:13,230
are attempting to, if you find
yourself rooting for these

528
00:33:13,230 --> 00:33:20,520
legislative bodies, to give you
some, some redress, or to fix a

529
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:25,140
problem that is harming you, as
an app developer. Please don't

530
00:33:25,140 --> 00:33:28,290
hold your breath because you're
gonna, you're gonna pass out.

531
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:29,400
And

532
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,420
Adam Curry: this is playing out
in the US as we speak, in a very

533
00:33:33,450 --> 00:33:37,320
underhanded way with tick tock.
As the legislation has been

534
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,040
reintroduced or tick tock, we
it's malware, it's digital

535
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,790
fentanyl. It's, oh, no, it's
spyware. They're taking its

536
00:33:44,820 --> 00:33:50,250
national security, no more or
less than Instagram. Give me a

537
00:33:50,250 --> 00:33:51,060
break.

538
00:33:51,090 --> 00:33:52,950
Dave Jones: I love that,

539
00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:55,290
Adam Curry: in fact, comes from
Gallagher the guy who introduced

540
00:33:55,290 --> 00:33:59,520
the get rid of tick tock bill,
which conveniently forces tick

541
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,930
tock to make all data and videos
exportable in machine readable

542
00:34:03,930 --> 00:34:07,500
content. So it can be imported
into I don't know, Google. The

543
00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:11,220
guy's top donor is Google. I
mean, it's so transparent.

544
00:34:11,969 --> 00:34:15,839
Dave Jones: Okay, so this fits
in with let me go to my let me

545
00:34:15,839 --> 00:34:18,299
go to my Google thing real
quick, because I think, I think

546
00:34:18,449 --> 00:34:23,279
I think all these companies that
are going all in on AI, and

547
00:34:23,309 --> 00:34:26,429
large language models, I think
they're all They're crazy.

548
00:34:26,430 --> 00:34:28,920
Adam Curry: Rude. They're crazy.
They're crazy.

549
00:34:29,220 --> 00:34:32,610
Dave Jones: They're going to rue
the day that they did this. So

550
00:34:33,420 --> 00:34:38,160
Matt Taibbi recently went, went
through and talked about that he

551
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:39,570
looked himself up didn't we

552
00:34:39,569 --> 00:34:41,399
Adam Curry: play this on the
last show? No,

553
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,590
Dave Jones: this was different.
This is different. He does a

554
00:34:43,590 --> 00:34:47,190
different thing. He said that
what he did was he got into to

555
00:34:47,190 --> 00:34:51,180
Gemini everybody got distracted
by the images. Yeah, the gym but

556
00:34:51,180 --> 00:34:55,440
they they missed the larger
problem, which was the thing is

557
00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:02,430
completely unreliable in every
aspect. Almost. So he, he said,

558
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,630
he said in last week's podcast,
they said, Well, I went in there

559
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:11,040
and I said, what are some
controversies involving Matt

560
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,970
Taibbi, he just basically asked
it about himself. Yeah, exactly.

561
00:35:14,970 --> 00:35:19,800
And it just made up all kinds of
racist things that he had

562
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:25,320
supposedly said articles he
never wrote. It basically just

563
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:31,080
completely libeled him and gave
these references that were

564
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,760
completely bogus. And so I was
like, Well, I wonder, I wonder

565
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,000
what so I looked at I said, I
asked Microsoft copilot.

566
00:35:41,610 --> 00:35:44,190
Adam Curry: I have a clip for
when you're ready. Okay.

567
00:35:45,900 --> 00:35:48,630
Dave Jones: So what are some
controversies involving Adam

568
00:35:48,630 --> 00:35:49,740
curry? Oh,

569
00:35:49,740 --> 00:35:53,910
Adam Curry: no. Oh, no. Yeah,

570
00:35:53,940 --> 00:35:57,390
Dave Jones: copilot said, Adam
curry, often referred to as the

571
00:35:57,390 --> 00:36:00,060
pod father due to his early
contributions to podcasting has

572
00:36:00,060 --> 00:36:03,480
been involved in a few
controversies. One notable

573
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,470
incident was the removal of his
podcast no agenda from Spotify.

574
00:36:08,550 --> 00:36:11,790
The removal was speculated to be
for commercial reasons as

575
00:36:11,790 --> 00:36:14,460
Spotify was planning to launch
ads, but some believe there

576
00:36:14,460 --> 00:36:18,270
might have been other reasons
behind the decision Oh to toe.

577
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:21,540
Additionally, there was an
instance on the Joe Rogan

578
00:36:21,540 --> 00:36:24,660
Experience podcast where Curry
was sidetracked when trying to

579
00:36:24,660 --> 00:36:28,860
discuss the concept of a digital
dollar. This led to discussions

580
00:36:28,860 --> 00:36:30,930
within the community about
whether certain topics were

581
00:36:30,930 --> 00:36:35,790
being avoided intentionally.
These incidents highlight the

582
00:36:35,790 --> 00:36:38,190
complexities and challenges that
can arise in the world of

583
00:36:38,190 --> 00:36:40,590
digital digital media and
podcasting, so I

584
00:36:40,590 --> 00:36:44,400
Adam Curry: can literally
remember the tweet where someone

585
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:49,830
said that one tweet where
someone said Doug curry got

586
00:36:49,830 --> 00:36:53,280
sidetracked he was talking about
Bitcoin and then Joe Joe

587
00:36:53,610 --> 00:36:56,550
sidetracked him. I can remember
that tweet, I know exactly where

588
00:36:56,550 --> 00:36:57,870
this comes from. Yeah,

589
00:36:57,870 --> 00:36:59,310
Dave Jones: you know where it
can't you know, the references

590
00:36:59,310 --> 00:37:00,690
it gets read it, though

591
00:37:00,690 --> 00:37:02,760
Adam Curry: it read it there you
go. Oh, yeah, well read

592
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,680
licensing their their content.

593
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,860
Dave Jones: Every reference that
it gives in the footnotes are

594
00:37:07,860 --> 00:37:09,270
all from Reddit. They're

595
00:37:09,270 --> 00:37:11,640
Adam Curry: all Reddit threads.
What could possibly go wrong?

596
00:37:12,330 --> 00:37:12,690
Yeah,

597
00:37:12,810 --> 00:37:15,360
Dave Jones: breaking this Reddit
thread breaking Adam Curry's

598
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:16,920
podcast removed from Spotify.

599
00:37:18,270 --> 00:37:20,280
Adam Curry: I removed it. I know

600
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,480
Dave Jones: this was this is
this thing is a misinformation

601
00:37:24,810 --> 00:37:28,440
machine the likes of which we
have never seen before and is

602
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,230
created by the people who are
supposedly policing the

603
00:37:31,230 --> 00:37:37,530
misinformation. And I here's,
here's my, here is my conspiracy

604
00:37:37,530 --> 00:37:46,830
theory. So we know for a fact
that Google Brain is the is the

605
00:37:46,830 --> 00:37:49,530
origin of all of these trends,
large language transformer

606
00:37:49,530 --> 00:37:54,480
models. I don't know if they
necessarily invented it. But

607
00:37:54,480 --> 00:38:01,080
they definitely gave it their
r&d to develop it into a real

608
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:07,080
thing. So all this stuff, all
these large language models in

609
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:11,700
the current crop of AI, they
originated from Google's labs.

610
00:38:12,900 --> 00:38:17,640
So why did Google themselves
never do anything with this

611
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,930
successfully because they knew
because they knew it was it was

612
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:22,830
utterly broken.

613
00:38:23,100 --> 00:38:25,530
Adam Curry: Can I play this
unreliable one minute clip from

614
00:38:25,530 --> 00:38:30,360
CNBC where you don't want your
company talked about negatively

615
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,360
with the big with your big 10
billion so called $10 billion

616
00:38:33,690 --> 00:38:38,100
investment? Here is the latest
on Microsoft co pilot

617
00:38:38,130 --> 00:38:40,710
Unknown: well another example
today of AI gone rogue and gone

618
00:38:40,710 --> 00:38:44,190
wrong. Microsoft's AI image
generator creates violent and

619
00:38:44,190 --> 00:38:48,180
sexual images as well as
ignoring copyright CNBC dot coms

620
00:38:48,180 --> 00:38:51,210
Hayden field wrote that story
for us and spoke to the engineer

621
00:38:51,210 --> 00:38:54,600
who is making these issues
public. She now joins us on sat

622
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,940
along with our own technology
reporter Steve Kovacs. So

623
00:38:56,940 --> 00:38:59,790
Hayden, if you would just give
me a little bit of a rundown for

624
00:38:59,790 --> 00:39:02,280
viewers that haven't been able
to get to your full story yet

625
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,770
about what actually happened
here with Microsoft. Thanks,

626
00:39:04,770 --> 00:39:08,130
Courtney. So it is a crazy
story. This weekend, I heard

627
00:39:08,130 --> 00:39:11,670
from a Microsoft AI engineer who
was really concerned about what

628
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:14,640
he was finding in the copilot
tool. He had been testing it for

629
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:19,890
months. And he said that all the
violence, sexualized, just crazy

630
00:39:19,890 --> 00:39:22,530
images that it had been
generating. He had reported to

631
00:39:22,530 --> 00:39:26,460
Microsoft over the last three
months to no avail. He wasn't

632
00:39:26,460 --> 00:39:29,430
happy with how they had been
handling his reports. And the

633
00:39:29,430 --> 00:39:33,300
craziest part is I myself was
able to recreate these same

634
00:39:33,300 --> 00:39:36,000
images that he was concerned
about just yesterday, so

635
00:39:36,300 --> 00:39:40,920
violent, sexualized, just
inappropriate images. Think kids

636
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:45,600
with guns, demons and monsters
next to abortion rights

637
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,860
terminology, sexualized images
of women in car accidents, you

638
00:39:49,860 --> 00:39:53,550
name it, just want to see from
an AI image. That's the

639
00:39:53,550 --> 00:39:56,970
Adam Curry: one that got me
sexualized images of women in

640
00:39:56,970 --> 00:39:58,320
car crashes.

641
00:39:58,500 --> 00:40:01,110
Dave Jones: What kind of sickos
are they In the world, this is

642
00:40:01,110 --> 00:40:02,520
this world is broken brother.

643
00:40:02,550 --> 00:40:05,040
Adam Curry: Well, have you ever
been on? On Twitter? Recently?

644
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:10,680
All I see is people hitting each
other punking each other beating

645
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,500
each other up. It's horrible.
It's horrible.

646
00:40:13,740 --> 00:40:16,950
Dave Jones: I think Google,
because Google had so much

647
00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:20,250
experience with this. Do you
remember? Do you remember when

648
00:40:20,250 --> 00:40:24,030
they vert? Okay, so when the
first open AI stuff, Google

649
00:40:24,030 --> 00:40:26,790
Adam Curry: guys all went no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, because

650
00:40:26,790 --> 00:40:29,190
we're gonna get forced into it.
We don't want to do it. That's

651
00:40:29,190 --> 00:40:32,160
exactly what it when we that's
how we called it. Yeah,

652
00:40:32,190 --> 00:40:34,710
Dave Jones: they open open AI
came out with it. Everybody

653
00:40:34,710 --> 00:40:36,990
started freaking out and saying
this is great. How to Google

654
00:40:36,990 --> 00:40:40,590
missed the mark. And Google's
first response was, this was

655
00:40:40,620 --> 00:40:45,900
always unreliable. Yep. They
said it this technology does not

656
00:40:46,380 --> 00:40:50,730
is not up to the task. Yeah, I
think that Jim, I think the

657
00:40:50,730 --> 00:40:57,360
entire Gemini thing was on
purpose. I think they rolled it

658
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:03,420
out on purpose, knowing it would
be completely broken. So that

659
00:41:03,420 --> 00:41:07,350
they would essentially throw a
stick in the spokes of the whole

660
00:41:07,350 --> 00:41:12,810
thing. That they if if now
everybody looks at Google and

661
00:41:12,810 --> 00:41:18,270
says, Okay, wait, if Google who
has all the data, and basically

662
00:41:18,270 --> 00:41:21,480
invented LLM, and has some of
the smartest data scientists in

663
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,710
the world, if they can't get
this thing to work properly,

664
00:41:26,970 --> 00:41:30,630
hold up. Maybe this is not what
we thought it was. Yeah,

665
00:41:30,630 --> 00:41:33,390
Adam Curry: that's not how the
market is interpreting it. The

666
00:41:33,390 --> 00:41:38,430
market is saying Google, you're
passe. You're over there, the

667
00:41:38,460 --> 00:41:41,010
valuation is dropping, and I
think the same will happen with

668
00:41:41,010 --> 00:41:41,700
Microsoft.

669
00:41:43,770 --> 00:41:47,520
Dave Jones: Yeah. I'm sticking
with my theory. I think they

670
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:52,530
intentionally threw a letter
through a grenade. The whole

671
00:41:52,530 --> 00:41:56,220
idea, okay, and WinPE. And as
soon as the these like that

672
00:41:56,220 --> 00:42:00,780
story, you played these little,
these little dings that keep

673
00:42:00,780 --> 00:42:04,230
happening where it's like, okay,
it did this. Now I got this

674
00:42:04,230 --> 00:42:06,960
wrong, not messed this up.
People are gonna start to

675
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:11,640
reference back to Gemini and
say, okay, okay, wait, this

676
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:16,320
thing is broken. This thing does
not they, they were showing us

677
00:42:16,350 --> 00:42:19,410
that this thing was broken. That
it wasn't that it did it

678
00:42:19,410 --> 00:42:21,720
completely was unreliable. Okay.

679
00:42:21,720 --> 00:42:23,850
Adam Curry: So now I want to
bring this back to podcasting.

680
00:42:24,900 --> 00:42:27,840
Dave Jones: I was getting there.
Oh, can Oh, no. Okay, I'll, I'll

681
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,960
punch you up. When you get when
you say what you need, say?

682
00:42:30,990 --> 00:42:31,200
Well,

683
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,590
Adam Curry: what I was going to
say is that all of these

684
00:42:34,590 --> 00:42:39,450
companies are crumbling around
us. I've been in media since I

685
00:42:39,450 --> 00:42:44,940
was well, officially since I was
19. But you know, pirate radio

686
00:42:44,940 --> 00:42:49,080
when I was 1415, but really
getting paid for doing it since

687
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:53,760
I was 19. I have seen I've seen
it all. And I know exactly I can

688
00:42:53,790 --> 00:42:59,100
I can see the landscape before
me and it is crumbling. The

689
00:42:59,100 --> 00:43:03,750
streaming systems are crumbling,
the whole, you know, subscribe

690
00:43:03,750 --> 00:43:08,100
to, you know, 15 different apps
that are on your Roku or on your

691
00:43:08,100 --> 00:43:14,250
television, the model is not
working. And it could take a

692
00:43:14,250 --> 00:43:19,020
week, a month, it could take 10
more years, but RSS distribution

693
00:43:19,050 --> 00:43:24,330
is the answer. And those of you
developing applications, whether

694
00:43:24,330 --> 00:43:27,510
they're whatever the application
is, however, it's distributed,

695
00:43:27,660 --> 00:43:33,750
you are the future and stick
with it. Stick with it. Because

696
00:43:33,780 --> 00:43:40,920
it's this is going to be so big.
I'm seeing the music stuff it's

697
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,450
gonna take years it's gonna take
a long time, but it is changing

698
00:43:45,570 --> 00:43:49,200
the reason why Spotify is doing
all this is they have no

699
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:55,260
business model. They don't have
a model they are at the beck and

700
00:43:55,260 --> 00:44:01,410
call they are the music
industry's bitch seriously, they

701
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,320
know it's like oh we're gonna
raise our prices good we're

702
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,740
gonna raise our the cost to you
we're gonna raise our licensing

703
00:44:07,740 --> 00:44:15,150
fees it's they have no chance
and of course they they really

704
00:44:15,180 --> 00:44:19,500
doing their reverse IPO you know
where they were they really

705
00:44:19,500 --> 00:44:22,500
didn't raise any money they're
going to have problems going

706
00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:25,680
forward unless they want to
dilute the stock has all kinds

707
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,710
of problems and when you dilute
your stock your employees

708
00:44:28,740 --> 00:44:32,280
options are underwater and it's
it's a mess. It's just another

709
00:44:32,610 --> 00:44:36,810
it's just not as you say group
of people. The answer especially

710
00:44:36,810 --> 00:44:41,640
when I hit when for me signal is
like the the 16 Z guy the

711
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:45,750
Andreessen Horowitz guy that
signals to me Bing Bing Bing big

712
00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:49,740
red flashing lights. Oh RS says
I had no good blockchain. No,

713
00:44:50,820 --> 00:44:57,360
no, no. This is the way forward
and value for value is the only

714
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:01,890
way forward. Of course you can
do I'm advertising and you know,

715
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:09,450
there will be people that it
works for. But sure, small

716
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:13,650
groups, being number one is
charts. It really doesn't matter

717
00:45:13,650 --> 00:45:17,880
anymore. Having a group big
enough to support what you're

718
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:22,620
doing is what the future is. And
those groups may be I mean, we

719
00:45:22,620 --> 00:45:28,830
were just watching. The Chosun
is a great, great example. You

720
00:45:28,830 --> 00:45:33,870
know, they crowdfunded
everything three seasons. Now,

721
00:45:33,870 --> 00:45:36,690
this was not a big Hollywood
money. Yeah, this is this

722
00:45:36,690 --> 00:45:39,210
complete value for value. Have
you ever seen the the credit

723
00:45:39,210 --> 00:45:42,990
roll at the end of a season? It
goes on for 10 minutes?

724
00:45:43,050 --> 00:45:47,760
Everybody's on there? Yeah, then
everybody feels good. And they

725
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:52,260
had some vague gamified it you
know, if you put an X amount,

726
00:45:52,260 --> 00:45:54,930
then you could do a set visit
and all the stuff that people

727
00:45:54,930 --> 00:45:57,330
always talk about these guys
actually did it?

728
00:45:58,830 --> 00:46:06,420
Dave Jones: Yeah, this. So the,
the, the minute, if you so

729
00:46:06,420 --> 00:46:13,350
circling back to the monopoly
and competition thing. If, if

730
00:46:13,350 --> 00:46:19,020
you're a if you're if you think
about it, the brow any any

731
00:46:20,220 --> 00:46:25,200
platform, or, or a part of the
tech sector that came up through

732
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:31,110
the browser has sort of
maintained its roots, it's

733
00:46:31,110 --> 00:46:37,140
maintained, its openness. It, it
maintains its, its sort of ethos

734
00:46:37,170 --> 00:46:42,270
of openness. So and podcasting
is one of those things. Because

735
00:46:42,270 --> 00:46:48,480
of RSS, it came up on the open
web, and it's sort of it is, is

736
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:53,100
entrenched is so hard to change.
The reason the App Store side of

737
00:46:53,100 --> 00:46:57,270
things and the native app side
of things is the way it is, is

738
00:46:57,270 --> 00:47:00,210
because that was a that was sort
of a clean slate build from

739
00:47:00,210 --> 00:47:07,650
nothing. And when that happens,
there's always the inclination

740
00:47:07,650 --> 00:47:13,740
to lock it down and silo it by
if you look at Apple podcasts,

741
00:47:14,850 --> 00:47:20,010
Apple podcasts is I would say
the only part of apple that

742
00:47:20,010 --> 00:47:24,690
continues to have a spirit of
openness to it. Yeah, they they

743
00:47:24,690 --> 00:47:28,560
not only have a dot out adopted
part of the namespace now that

744
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:35,430
they continue to allow to, to
care about RSS and make it from

745
00:47:35,430 --> 00:47:38,910
happen. That would never happen
anywhere else in the app and the

746
00:47:38,910 --> 00:47:41,730
Apple platform, things like
micropayments, if you think

747
00:47:41,730 --> 00:47:47,190
about if you think about Apple
podcasts, where they're where

748
00:47:47,190 --> 00:47:50,310
they are allowing things to
happen that the rest of the

749
00:47:50,310 --> 00:47:54,000
company would never allow to
happen. So the micropayments,

750
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,100
and the value for value
streaming, Satoshis. And these

751
00:47:56,100 --> 00:48:00,690
kinds of things, that, that
we've already seen that be be

752
00:48:00,690 --> 00:48:04,020
kicked off through Dominus,
because he has problems that has

753
00:48:04,050 --> 00:48:07,380
been happening in the other
parts of the Apple platform. But

754
00:48:07,380 --> 00:48:13,740
for some reason, Apple podcasts
has a spirit of openness in it

755
00:48:14,130 --> 00:48:18,870
that they're bringing to the
platform. And that is because of

756
00:48:18,870 --> 00:48:27,060
RSS is because it's because the
product was born from the open

757
00:48:27,330 --> 00:48:32,040
from the open web. You any has
maintained that ethic

758
00:48:32,610 --> 00:48:37,530
throughout. Spotify was never
born on the open web. It was

759
00:48:37,530 --> 00:48:41,910
born in the basements of music
labels in the recording

760
00:48:41,910 --> 00:48:42,420
industry.

761
00:48:42,630 --> 00:48:46,710
Adam Curry: Well, the original
Spotify was actually quite cool.

762
00:48:47,310 --> 00:48:50,070
Yeah, it was a peer to peer
sharing system for about half a

763
00:48:50,070 --> 00:48:56,040
minute. Yeah. Then and then it
got reborn and rebirth into into

764
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:56,880
what it is today

765
00:48:57,150 --> 00:49:00,930
Dave Jones: into a DRM laced
black box. Exactly. Right. So

766
00:49:00,930 --> 00:49:05,670
it's never going to be it. It
will never be anything other

767
00:49:05,670 --> 00:49:09,750
than that. Unless there's a
humongous change of leadership

768
00:49:09,750 --> 00:49:13,200
and and, and all these,
basically unless the company

769
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:14,100
completely turns out.

770
00:49:14,130 --> 00:49:15,990
Adam Curry: I don't think that
can you. You can't even do that.

771
00:49:15,990 --> 00:49:18,210
I don't think it's possible
either. And I thought it was

772
00:49:18,210 --> 00:49:22,470
kind of hilarious. As James
pointed out on pod news weekly

773
00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:26,730
review how Daniel Eck is like,
yo, it's an open open systems we

774
00:49:26,730 --> 00:49:31,770
believe in open and open. Bull
crap. We saw what you do with

775
00:49:31,770 --> 00:49:35,220
podcasting, you blew a billion
bucks. Right?

776
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,180
Dave Jones: And so people don't
want to see they they don't want

777
00:49:39,180 --> 00:49:43,080
to pay 30% And they want to be
able to make to do payments off

778
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,050
platform. Those are really the
things that developers want. If

779
00:49:46,050 --> 00:49:50,040
you boil it all down, they don't
want to humongous fee, and they

780
00:49:50,130 --> 00:49:54,570
and they want to be able to for
to use their own payment systems

781
00:49:54,990 --> 00:50:02,520
in their apps. Because Because
most device Lubbers came from

782
00:50:02,550 --> 00:50:09,180
the open web. And that's what we
expect. But that's not your

783
00:50:09,180 --> 00:50:14,100
you're basically asking Apple
and Android to become web

784
00:50:14,100 --> 00:50:15,930
browsers, and they're not going
to do No,

785
00:50:16,230 --> 00:50:18,990
Adam Curry: no way. No way that
you're not going to do it. No,

786
00:50:19,020 --> 00:50:19,620
they're not, they're not

787
00:50:19,620 --> 00:50:23,400
Dave Jones: going to do it. But
I think ultimately, in the end,

788
00:50:23,730 --> 00:50:30,660
it doesn't matter. Because RSS
will continue RSS will continue

789
00:50:30,660 --> 00:50:35,160
to exist independent of these
platforms. And when when, when

790
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:37,650
the EU and when antitrust
regulators and these people,

791
00:50:37,890 --> 00:50:42,030
sort of these regulatory bodies
begin to make begin as soon as

792
00:50:42,030 --> 00:50:46,290
they begin to get aggressive,
that tells me that within a few

793
00:50:46,290 --> 00:50:49,650
years, there's going to be some
sea change. Because they're

794
00:50:49,650 --> 00:50:53,580
always late to the game. They're
always late to the party, they

795
00:50:53,580 --> 00:50:57,690
start doing this right when the
person that the right when the

796
00:50:57,690 --> 00:51:00,750
company they're trying to
regulate is about to get the rug

797
00:51:00,750 --> 00:51:04,800
pulled out from under, yes, yes,
by the market, not necessarily,

798
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,520
not by regulators, but by the
market itself. I guarantee you,

799
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,730
there's something coming down
the pipe that no but none of us

800
00:51:11,730 --> 00:51:15,810
can imagine right now. There's
something comping coming, that

801
00:51:15,810 --> 00:51:19,020
is going to level this playing
field on its own independent of

802
00:51:19,020 --> 00:51:22,260
what any of these regulators are
trying to do. And we don't even

803
00:51:22,260 --> 00:51:26,130
know what that is yet. Because
you can't. It's impossible to

804
00:51:26,130 --> 00:51:33,600
know what's happening next, that
Microsoft never saw Microsoft in

805
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:37,800
1994. They thought the web was a
joke.

806
00:51:37,830 --> 00:51:41,310
Adam Curry: Yes, I remember
consulting for them. Yeah, they

807
00:51:41,340 --> 00:51:41,820
they didn't

808
00:51:41,820 --> 00:51:44,220
Dave Jones: take it seriously.
No, they did not. And within 10

809
00:51:44,220 --> 00:51:48,180
years, they were fighting for
their life. And they thought

810
00:51:48,180 --> 00:51:52,020
they also thought Linux was a
joke. Now, most of their Azure

811
00:51:52,050 --> 00:51:55,200
cloud revenue comes from Linux,
and I don't know,

812
00:51:55,230 --> 00:51:58,320
Adam Curry: 4% of all desktops
in the world of Linux. Now,

813
00:51:58,350 --> 00:52:00,630
that's not bad. No,

814
00:52:00,630 --> 00:52:03,510
Dave Jones: no, that's not bad
at all. That's not bad at all.

815
00:52:03,540 --> 00:52:08,130
And I think there's something I
guess from from an app, you

816
00:52:08,130 --> 00:52:11,160
know, our focus here is as
podcast app developers, and

817
00:52:11,220 --> 00:52:15,300
specifically independent ones,
but every but all of them. And I

818
00:52:15,300 --> 00:52:20,550
just think that I guess my
message would be none. You know,

819
00:52:20,550 --> 00:52:23,940
I wouldn't worry about these
things too much. Because I think

820
00:52:23,940 --> 00:52:28,350
they I think they are going if
history is a judge and it is

821
00:52:28,950 --> 00:52:32,130
these things will play
themselves out and you will be

822
00:52:32,130 --> 00:52:35,670
in a better position and a few
years. Yes. We can't say what

823
00:52:35,670 --> 00:52:37,650
that's going to be and how it's
going to play out until the

824
00:52:37,650 --> 00:52:40,800
future but I'm not worried about
it. I think it's self

825
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:45,630
correcting. Or I really due for
it. And that's for PW A's and

826
00:52:45,630 --> 00:52:49,230
native apps too. I think I think
there's going to be something

827
00:52:49,230 --> 00:52:51,270
that causes this to self
correct.

828
00:52:53,730 --> 00:52:55,650
Adam Curry: Pod sage has spoken.

829
00:52:57,210 --> 00:53:03,090
Dave Jones: You take it to the
bank. Yeah, but I mean like, so.

830
00:53:03,720 --> 00:53:10,200
I don't know if you saw Hello,
Pat now has webhooks

831
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,100
Adam Curry: Oh, no, I did not
see this. In the spirit of

832
00:53:14,100 --> 00:53:18,180
openness. I did not see this.
No. Did that mean that you can

833
00:53:18,180 --> 00:53:20,670
receive something on heli pad
and you can make it post

834
00:53:20,670 --> 00:53:22,950
something or do something cool.
Yeah,

835
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:26,220
Dave Jones: you can. You can
have helipad send a web hook in

836
00:53:26,220 --> 00:53:29,670
response to some event that
happens. Oh,

837
00:53:29,670 --> 00:53:34,110
Adam Curry: wow. You mean like
triggering a flashing light in

838
00:53:34,110 --> 00:53:36,360
your studio? Like I was at
Burberry, who has been doing

839
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:36,720
that?

840
00:53:38,130 --> 00:53:40,980
Dave Jones: Anything like that,
um, anything that can receive a

841
00:53:41,100 --> 00:53:46,020
web hook? You could watch him
wired up. It's okay, Eric.

842
00:53:46,710 --> 00:53:50,010
pushed to Umbral start non yet,
but it's in the code. Okay. Oh,

843
00:53:50,010 --> 00:53:55,740
that's awesome. Mr. Eric P. P.
Yes. This is gonna get really

844
00:53:55,740 --> 00:53:56,100
fun.

845
00:53:57,300 --> 00:54:00,690
Adam Curry: Oh, you kidding me?
It's gonna be fantastic. Yeah.

846
00:54:00,870 --> 00:54:06,090
Oh, man. Well, this is exactly.
So I can I can publish that as

847
00:54:06,090 --> 00:54:10,470
an activity stream. Yes, you
could. Yes, you could. Now

848
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:12,840
you're talking now you're
talking? Oh,

849
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,450
Dave Jones: we need a web hook
receiver. Somewhere on the

850
00:54:15,450 --> 00:54:17,040
other. You know, the other end?

851
00:54:17,070 --> 00:54:20,160
Adam Curry: Oh, that's
fantastic. To do crazy. How did

852
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,640
I miss this? Um, must, was it in
the GitHub? I didn't see it on.

853
00:54:23,970 --> 00:54:24,150
He

854
00:54:24,150 --> 00:54:27,240
Dave Jones: published it. I
think last night. Oh, here was

855
00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:34,440
my first thought. You don't need
this is sort of like you a built

856
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:35,220
in boost bot.

857
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,890
Adam Curry: Yeah, you don't need
to split anymore. You can just

858
00:54:41,220 --> 00:54:43,530
tie it into something. Right?

859
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,550
Dave Jones: Yeah, you set up a
set up a web hook to go out to

860
00:54:47,550 --> 00:54:52,920
some sort of receiver and then
it posts wherever you want it.

861
00:54:54,210 --> 00:55:04,500
Adam Curry: To do ah, this is
me. orgasmic ah, If I leave you

862
00:55:04,500 --> 00:55:13,890
to that is cool by the way thank
you thank you Oscar for fixing

863
00:55:13,890 --> 00:55:17,940
your T O V records now I can see
what songs people are boosting

864
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:22,470
Can you reply it? No not yet he
wants to think about that which

865
00:55:22,470 --> 00:55:22,890
is fine

866
00:55:23,850 --> 00:55:25,500
Dave Jones: doesn't have a thing
he's gonna have a think

867
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:29,010
Adam Curry: when he has a thing
interesting things come out I

868
00:55:29,820 --> 00:55:32,640
have for some reason and you
grommet can't get it to work

869
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:37,800
right? I'm not sure. And I it's
way beyond my my knowledge. I

870
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,770
see him trying. But it's not
coming through yet. And I'm not

871
00:55:40,770 --> 00:55:42,300
sure why. He's

872
00:55:42,300 --> 00:55:43,860
Dave Jones: just not he's not
pushing hard enough.

873
00:55:45,210 --> 00:55:47,880
Adam Curry: Exactly. Exactly.
Try harder.

874
00:55:50,310 --> 00:55:54,330
Dave Jones: Spreaker Spreaker
Yeah, about pod. They flipped

875
00:55:54,330 --> 00:55:55,860
the switch on pod thing now.

876
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:58,590
Adam Curry: It's been
interesting because I've been

877
00:55:58,860 --> 00:56:05,490
watching pod Pink Dot Watch. And
they got a lot of foreign

878
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:09,240
podcasts. I see a lot of Spanish
language see all kinds of stuff

879
00:56:09,270 --> 00:56:12,630
flying through a lot of Arabic
too. Yeah, I've seen that as

880
00:56:12,630 --> 00:56:17,550
well as I mean, are there is any
of the like the big networks

881
00:56:17,550 --> 00:56:20,160
like any of those guys on it?

882
00:56:20,730 --> 00:56:22,080
Dave Jones: What do you mean big
networks?

883
00:56:22,110 --> 00:56:24,480
Adam Curry: I don't know like I
heart or something like that is

884
00:56:24,540 --> 00:56:28,890
it feels like I'm the one of
those big companies is using

885
00:56:28,890 --> 00:56:30,180
Spreaker I could be wrong.

886
00:56:31,710 --> 00:56:34,740
Dave Jones: Maybe that was it?
No. They've got a lot of feeds.

887
00:56:34,740 --> 00:56:37,380
They like 350,000 feeds now, how

888
00:56:37,380 --> 00:56:40,710
Adam Curry: did they? How did
they come to this decision? Who

889
00:56:40,740 --> 00:56:43,530
was it Spurlock who was pushing
them? Because I know that he was

890
00:56:43,530 --> 00:56:44,850
the first one to know about it.

891
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,530
Dave Jones: Oh, earpiece was
Spreaker is IRC.

892
00:56:49,530 --> 00:56:51,240
Adam Curry: Yes. My thought is
our company.

893
00:56:51,750 --> 00:56:55,830
Dave Jones: The unknown unknown.
Spurlock had talked to him, but

894
00:56:55,830 --> 00:57:02,460
then I think this originally I
think it originated with Franco.

895
00:57:03,930 --> 00:57:08,070
Celerio actually, really?
Because they're I think they're

896
00:57:08,070 --> 00:57:12,930
an Italian company. Maybe wrong.
List. I think Brooker knows

897
00:57:12,930 --> 00:57:17,520
them. Oh, I know he knows
somebody that works there. I'm

898
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:19,950
not I can't say for sure.
They're an Italian company. But

899
00:57:19,950 --> 00:57:25,440
I know Franco that's buddies
with a guy who is sort of high

900
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,410
up there. And he because he got
me in touch with him. Because

901
00:57:28,710 --> 00:57:31,710
this has probably been about a
year ago Spreaker started

902
00:57:31,710 --> 00:57:35,460
blocking our aggregators, right?
I remember that for giving us 14

903
00:57:35,460 --> 00:57:40,230
nines is our re asked for him. I
had a contact Franco's like oh,

904
00:57:40,230 --> 00:57:43,950
yeah, one of my friends is works
there. So he hooked me up. And

905
00:57:43,950 --> 00:57:47,040
we started talking. And the guys
are the guys there are super

906
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:47,640
nice.

907
00:57:48,210 --> 00:57:50,400
Adam Curry: And why were they
blocking us? Because they just

908
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:51,870
didn't know what we were. Yeah,

909
00:57:51,870 --> 00:57:55,680
Dave Jones: they just it was
just a automatic thing. They saw

910
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,500
too much traffic and it started
blocking. So I asked him, I was

911
00:57:58,500 --> 00:58:01,950
like, Can you whitelist us? And
they did, which was fine. And I

912
00:58:01,950 --> 00:58:04,320
said, Well, you know, it would
be great if you could do pod

913
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,600
paying, because then I would I
wouldn't have to pull you at

914
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:11,040
all. And then they were like,
yeah, we'll do it. And I didn't

915
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:13,230
hear back from them for months.
And then all of a sudden they

916
00:58:13,230 --> 00:58:15,900
were they sent me an email the
other day, and we're like, yeah,

917
00:58:15,900 --> 00:58:17,910
we got it built. We're ready to
flip it on. Can we go? I was

918
00:58:17,910 --> 00:58:19,710
like, yeah, yeah, go what's so
what's so

919
00:58:19,710 --> 00:58:22,320
Adam Curry: cool. And I I
promoted this on no agenda

920
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:27,270
yesterday, is that all those
podcasts now can tell their

921
00:58:27,780 --> 00:58:31,860
audiences? Hey, if you want to,
if you want to know within 90

922
00:58:31,860 --> 00:58:35,730
seconds of us posting the new
show, instead of waiting 30

923
00:58:35,730 --> 00:58:40,620
minutes, 15 minutes, 45 minutes.
Get one of these modern podcast

924
00:58:40,620 --> 00:58:45,000
apps. Totally. That's the beauty
of it in my mind.

925
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:51,300
Dave Jones: If for people who
may not know how pod ping duck,

926
00:58:51,300 --> 00:58:55,890
so pod ping runs on the hive
blockchain in that's all that's

927
00:58:55,890 --> 00:58:59,910
all set up. It does. Brian's got
a set to do resource allocation

928
00:58:59,910 --> 00:59:02,370
as needed. And these kinds of
things much a bunch of voodoo

929
00:59:02,370 --> 00:59:05,970
that I don't understand. But
essentially, it runs on the

930
00:59:05,970 --> 00:59:10,590
public health blockchain. But
what most the way most people

931
00:59:10,590 --> 00:59:15,660
interact with POD paying is
through piping dot cloud. So

932
00:59:15,660 --> 00:59:18,240
that's where all the big hosting
companies are. They're sending

933
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:23,250
their pod pings to piping dot
cloud, which then posts it to

934
00:59:23,250 --> 00:59:26,760
the blockchain, which then
everybody can read. So it's sort

935
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:31,350
of like you get a, you get a you
get an authentication token. And

936
00:59:31,350 --> 00:59:34,740
then you can post to pod bean
dot cloud and we take care of,

937
00:59:35,550 --> 00:59:36,390
of the

938
00:59:36,750 --> 00:59:38,820
Adam Curry: who's running that.
Are we running pod pod Pink Dot

939
00:59:38,820 --> 00:59:40,050
cloud? Yeah,

940
00:59:40,110 --> 00:59:46,680
Dave Jones: yeah. So it's code.
The Hive writer is code that

941
00:59:47,820 --> 00:59:56,100
that Alex run the Alex built in
then. Then I built the web layer

942
00:59:56,100 --> 01:00:00,840
on top of it. And so it's just
basically a web webservice that

943
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:06,180
takes people's pod pings and
converts them to the hive writer

944
01:00:07,110 --> 01:00:08,490
and then writes it to the
blockchain.

945
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:13,590
Adam Curry: So it's also on
IPFS. Right. IPFS version, I saw

946
01:00:13,620 --> 01:00:17,640
Dave Jones: what that was, that
was a test we were doing of IPFS

947
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:22,440
of Pub Sub overloud p2p, that's
that they actually rip that

948
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:24,450
feature out of IPFS. Oh, really?

949
01:00:24,900 --> 01:00:27,750
Adam Curry: Good way to go,
guys. Yeah.

950
01:00:28,020 --> 01:00:31,440
Dave Jones: And so, but we're
looking, we're, we're actively

951
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:35,280
thinking about ways to get
around that and do some sort of

952
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:40,770
gossip or p2p. But the reason I
bring that all that up about the

953
01:00:40,770 --> 01:00:46,650
structure, the way it's built is
that pod ping dot Cloud has five

954
01:00:46,650 --> 01:00:53,910
servers. It's got one in the
western US, Central US, eastern

955
01:00:53,910 --> 01:00:58,020
US, one in Europe and one in
Australia. So there's five

956
01:00:58,020 --> 01:00:59,190
global servers, those

957
01:00:59,190 --> 01:01:02,100
Adam Curry: are servers like,
yeah, podcasts index. Oh, wow.

958
01:01:02,130 --> 01:01:05,340
No idea. Awesome.

959
01:01:06,510 --> 01:01:08,640
Dave Jones: You don't get the
Cloudflare bill every month.

960
01:01:08,700 --> 01:01:09,900
Adam Curry: No, I see it, I see
it.

961
01:01:10,350 --> 01:01:15,930
Dave Jones: I see it. Okay. The
so then, so there's five of

962
01:01:15,930 --> 01:01:18,150
those servers. And they're,
they're very cheap. They're only

963
01:01:18,270 --> 01:01:23,130
each one of them is only a $5.
NANOG is the face to $5 a month

964
01:01:23,130 --> 01:01:30,750
Linode. VM, very cheap. And they
can handle like, a gazillion pod

965
01:01:30,750 --> 01:01:33,450
pings. You know, an hour. I
mean, it's just like the, the

966
01:01:33,450 --> 01:01:40,050
headroom that they have is, is
amazing. And then there's a load

967
01:01:40,050 --> 01:01:44,400
balancer in front of it through
Cloudflare. So that it gets geo

968
01:01:44,430 --> 01:01:49,050
geo location load balanced to
the closest pod thing server for

969
01:01:49,230 --> 01:01:54,300
whoever sending the pod bay. And
what was interesting is when

970
01:01:54,300 --> 01:01:59,100
Spreaker came online,
historically, one of the one of

971
01:01:59,100 --> 01:02:03,060
the slowest pod things servers
and globally is the European

972
01:02:03,060 --> 01:02:07,470
server. And it it just never had
much traffic. But as soon as

973
01:02:07,470 --> 01:02:10,680
Spreaker came online, like that
thing is just killing it. Oh,

974
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:13,200
Adam Curry: it's doing over 1000
pod pings an hour.

975
01:02:13,830 --> 01:02:16,680
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's it it lit
up like be like a Christmas

976
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:21,150
tree. I mean, like it's now. So
now Europe. Yeah. And that was

977
01:02:21,150 --> 01:02:24,660
just cool to see. Because it's
like, now there's even

978
01:02:24,660 --> 01:02:27,930
distribution going on. Now. Now,
Australia, Australia doesn't

979
01:02:27,930 --> 01:02:30,150
have a whole lot of traffic. But
it's, it's always had more than

980
01:02:30,150 --> 01:02:35,340
Europe. And now there's this
nice even load that's going on

981
01:02:35,340 --> 01:02:40,290
across across things. Anyways,
it's just cool to see it's cool

982
01:02:40,290 --> 01:02:44,640
to see the whole thing function.
I mean, in the last year,

983
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:50,160
there's only been one hiccup.
And it really wasn't that big of

984
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:55,980
a deal. We the I forgot I forgot
even what the problem was,

985
01:02:56,370 --> 01:03:00,690
though. I had to reboot a couple
of servers and one server ended

986
01:03:00,690 --> 01:03:03,480
up picking up a lot more load
than it should have. I'm gonna

987
01:03:03,510 --> 01:03:08,730
give you the whole load. Control
European load couldn't resist.

988
01:03:09,540 --> 01:03:13,110
And anyway, it's just the thing
is rock solid. Yeah, that's

989
01:03:13,110 --> 01:03:14,460
beautiful. Congratulations

990
01:03:14,460 --> 01:03:16,320
Adam Curry: to all you guys for
putting that together and keep

991
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:23,520
Makino for you. And Brian and
Alex, Alex. Yeah, that's, that's

992
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:24,750
so cool. That's so

993
01:03:25,380 --> 01:03:28,170
Dave Jones: in the hive watcher
for people who want that's. So

994
01:03:28,170 --> 01:03:32,370
that's all the publishing side
of the people who want to watch

995
01:03:32,370 --> 01:03:36,060
pod paying for, for changes like
the way pod painter watched us.

996
01:03:36,540 --> 01:03:40,620
The GitHub repo has the code in
it. It's the pod ping dash

997
01:03:40,620 --> 01:03:43,860
watcher repo. And it's got
instructions and everything.

998
01:03:43,860 --> 01:03:49,950
It's very stable. Now, Alex made
some changes to it recently. And

999
01:03:49,950 --> 01:03:51,630
it's very, it's very stable.

1000
01:03:51,660 --> 01:03:53,730
Adam Curry: Now you can do if
you're a developer, you can do a

1001
01:03:53,730 --> 01:03:57,810
lot of cool stuff with this. You
could build your own index, I

1002
01:03:57,810 --> 01:04:01,110
guess you'll be missing. Lipson,
but now

1003
01:04:03,660 --> 01:04:06,780
Dave Jones: there's a few Yeah.
Lipson is two weeks. There'll be

1004
01:04:06,780 --> 01:04:07,890
done in two weeks. Yeah,

1005
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:10,020
Adam Curry: yeah. sometime next
year. Oh, that was last year.

1006
01:04:10,050 --> 01:04:10,500
I'm sorry.

1007
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:12,600
Dave Jones: Yeah, so anyway,
that's cool.

1008
01:04:12,660 --> 01:04:17,820
Adam Curry: That's very cool. I
I met a guy two weeks ago, he

1009
01:04:17,820 --> 01:04:20,910
came through the I was
interviewed on the thank God for

1010
01:04:20,910 --> 01:04:24,690
Bitcoin podcast. And, and Jordan
over there said how you got to

1011
01:04:24,690 --> 01:04:28,920
meet this guy, Zach. He's got
something going on. And so Zach,

1012
01:04:30,330 --> 01:04:34,260
this was amazing. Because it
came to Jordan like yeah, I'll

1013
01:04:34,260 --> 01:04:37,050
talk to the guy and he set up
this thing called indie hubbed

1014
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:41,340
dot studio. And and so you know,
he has he has a story. He's out

1015
01:04:41,340 --> 01:04:42,270
in LA and

1016
01:04:43,350 --> 01:04:47,220
Dave Jones: he started spell it
is indie e Yeah, i

1017
01:04:47,220 --> 01:04:50,400
Adam Curry: n d e Hu b dot
studio. I don't know if it's

1018
01:04:50,430 --> 01:04:53,700
publicly available yet. Let me
see in the hub.

1019
01:04:53,730 --> 01:04:57,480
Dave Jones: There's a page
there. Yeah. Let me see. I mean,

1020
01:04:57,480 --> 01:04:59,760
it helped liberate the art of
filmmaking. Yeah.

1021
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:04,590
Adam Curry: So He, he, he did
this demo for me and it was

1022
01:05:04,590 --> 01:05:09,570
phenomenal. So he says, Okay,
here's your, you know, here,

1023
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:13,500
here's your film. And of course,
it was a dummy film. And he

1024
01:05:13,500 --> 01:05:20,520
showed me on on screenshare.
Right on on a zoom. And, and he

1025
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:22,890
said, you have an lb wall. Yep.
He said, Okay, what's your lb

1026
01:05:22,890 --> 01:05:27,390
wall and he was adamant, get
lb.com. And then he, he hits

1027
01:05:27,390 --> 01:05:32,220
play. And you literally see his
wallet on the screen start to

1028
01:05:32,220 --> 01:05:36,960
receive SAS and mine. I'm like,
this is genius. This is exactly

1029
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:42,900
what we've done. Only a little
differently. So he around the

1030
01:05:42,900 --> 01:05:46,980
same time that we came up with,
you know, the value blocks and

1031
01:05:46,980 --> 01:05:50,880
everything. He came up with this
idea out of frustration, because

1032
01:05:50,910 --> 01:05:55,590
he says that the amount of
people the amount of independent

1033
01:05:55,590 --> 01:06:00,570
films that are submitted to
what's the big one there in

1034
01:06:00,570 --> 01:06:07,590
Colorado? blanking on it now.
The big one. Yeah. The big

1035
01:06:07,590 --> 01:06:10,590
independent movie, Film
Festival.

1036
01:06:12,900 --> 01:06:14,100
Dave Jones: Come on Sundance,

1037
01:06:14,130 --> 01:06:17,610
Adam Curry: Sundance. Do you how
many movies are submitted each

1038
01:06:17,610 --> 01:06:18,090
year?

1039
01:06:19,260 --> 01:06:21,570
Dave Jones: Oh, gosh, it's got
to be so many. What do you think

1040
01:06:21,570 --> 01:06:21,840
just

1041
01:06:21,870 --> 01:06:22,680
Adam Curry: just as a

1042
01:06:23,700 --> 01:06:27,780
Dave Jones: that's a I would say
probably 2500.

1043
01:06:29,130 --> 01:06:31,650
Adam Curry: More like 14,000 Oh,

1044
01:06:31,650 --> 01:06:34,650
Dave Jones: my gosh, how he
there's no way you could ever

1045
01:06:34,650 --> 01:06:36,300
show that many movies. And

1046
01:06:36,300 --> 01:06:39,210
Adam Curry: you know, and I know
filmmakers and you know, it's

1047
01:06:39,300 --> 01:06:42,270
it's horrible. They, you know,
especially documentarian, they

1048
01:06:42,270 --> 01:06:46,410
can't get listed. Amazon takes
all your money. I mean, it's

1049
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:49,890
it's horrible that it's really
there. It's worse than the music

1050
01:06:49,890 --> 01:06:54,390
business. Yeah, it is. Yeah. So
he set this up out of

1051
01:06:54,390 --> 01:06:57,330
frustration around but you know,
so he went a little. He

1052
01:06:57,330 --> 01:07:01,740
basically outsourced all the
development. And so they are

1053
01:07:01,770 --> 01:07:05,910
running everything through the
strike API. Which is

1054
01:07:05,910 --> 01:07:08,940
interesting. So but it's very
centralized, because you you you

1055
01:07:08,940 --> 01:07:12,990
submit your your wallet details
to him, you upload to him. He

1056
01:07:12,990 --> 01:07:16,620
does the splits everything. And
so I say, Oh, look at our demo.

1057
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:19,560
And I show him the exact same
thing basically goes like what?

1058
01:07:19,980 --> 01:07:27,870
I said, Yes. I said, here's the
difference. You can or less

1059
01:07:27,870 --> 01:07:30,870
Yeah, I said with some retooling
you kit. I mean, it was like a

1060
01:07:30,870 --> 01:07:36,630
replay of wave Lake. Like an
exact replay. Yeah. And what's

1061
01:07:36,630 --> 01:07:39,750
cool is, and I explained, I
said, you know, this is what

1062
01:07:39,750 --> 01:07:42,120
happened with Wave lake. And
then we said, look, you need to

1063
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:45,600
get this into RSS feeds, you
need to get into the indexing to

1064
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:48,240
put in value blocks, you know,
we've pulled them along, and

1065
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:49,710
they've got they've come quite
far.

1066
01:07:49,980 --> 01:07:51,480
Dave Jones: Medium equals film.
Yeah,

1067
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:56,040
Adam Curry: exactly. And, and I
said, you know, beauty, you know

1068
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:59,580
how to talk to filmmakers. This
is why you're perfect. So

1069
01:07:59,580 --> 01:08:03,990
here's, you know, I would
recommend, Zach, don't try to do

1070
01:08:03,990 --> 01:08:09,030
everything yourself. But leave
it up to the apps to ingest all

1071
01:08:09,030 --> 01:08:11,490
this, you know, to be the
playout system. We already have

1072
01:08:11,490 --> 01:08:16,290
four or five to do video very
nicely. And you just talk to the

1073
01:08:16,290 --> 01:08:19,380
filmmakers and help them set up
the splits and everything and

1074
01:08:19,380 --> 01:08:20,730
he's on board.

1075
01:08:21,239 --> 01:08:24,329
Dave Jones: Yes Is ways wave
lake for for independent

1076
01:08:24,329 --> 01:08:27,419
Adam Curry: fulfilling? Yeah. So
I mean, this is why I'm why

1077
01:08:27,419 --> 01:08:30,239
going back to the conversation,
the beginning, this is

1078
01:08:30,239 --> 01:08:34,499
happening. And most of you out
there who are developing X apps

1079
01:08:34,499 --> 01:08:37,289
are young enough to see the
success Dave and I will be dead.

1080
01:08:38,369 --> 01:08:42,599
When it all comes to fruition.
Remember when we put them out?

1081
01:08:45,419 --> 01:08:52,469
Why do you say you know, this is
happening? Concerts, all of this

1082
01:08:52,469 --> 01:08:56,969
is taking place in our lifetime?
And you know, don't worry, don't

1083
01:08:56,969 --> 01:09:01,979
worry, be happy. Don't worry
about the you know about the big

1084
01:09:01,979 --> 01:09:05,159
mass and everyone has to know
about don't worry about it's

1085
01:09:05,159 --> 01:09:10,409
gonna happen. A took years for
podcasting to grab hold. It'll

1086
01:09:10,409 --> 01:09:15,269
take a while. Yeah, but just
like you said, with whatever's

1087
01:09:15,269 --> 01:09:18,149
coming next for the technology
industry, this will happen,

1088
01:09:18,149 --> 01:09:22,529
something will happen. Some
piece of undeniably cool content

1089
01:09:22,529 --> 01:09:25,979
will be available through this
system. And everybody will flock

1090
01:09:25,979 --> 01:09:30,749
to it, is it this is life. This
is just how it happens is how

1091
01:09:30,749 --> 01:09:33,749
things work. I've seen it happen
time and time again.

1092
01:09:34,259 --> 01:09:37,109
Dave Jones: And it's usually a
secret ingredient to something

1093
01:09:37,109 --> 01:09:38,789
that already exists. You have no

1094
01:09:38,790 --> 01:09:42,060
Adam Curry: idea you really have
no idea what it is. Yes, it's

1095
01:09:42,060 --> 01:09:43,470
amazing to me.

1096
01:09:43,979 --> 01:09:46,709
Dave Jones: You look back and
you're like Oh, dammit What

1097
01:09:46,709 --> 01:09:50,759
didn't I see? What it always the
way it always works? Yeah.

1098
01:09:51,269 --> 01:09:56,459
That's cool. I'm liking this
because, you know, because Alex

1099
01:09:56,459 --> 01:09:58,829
is trying to lead this charge
with no agenda to for a long

1100
01:09:58,829 --> 01:10:04,049
time in But I mean, it's like
that's it, the technologies

1101
01:10:04,050 --> 01:10:07,020
Adam Curry: are there. And this
and this guy will need no agenda

1102
01:10:07,020 --> 01:10:10,320
tube like functionality, because
you know, he doesn't know what a

1103
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:17,040
bandwidth bill is yet more
storage. But the cool thing is

1104
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:19,740
he understands how to talk to
filmmakers.

1105
01:10:20,609 --> 01:10:23,219
Dave Jones: That's what that's
the ingredient. Yeah,

1106
01:10:23,250 --> 01:10:26,460
Adam Curry: wavelength guys know
how to talk to musicians and

1107
01:10:26,460 --> 01:10:31,230
artists. Right? It doesn't mean
that that doesn't discredit RSS,

1108
01:10:31,230 --> 01:10:35,940
blue, or pod home, or self
hosting or or music side doesn't

1109
01:10:35,940 --> 01:10:36,990
discredit that

1110
01:10:37,409 --> 01:10:39,269
Dave Jones: at all. No, no, no.

1111
01:10:39,390 --> 01:10:42,960
Adam Curry: I mean, I use
graphene OS because I want to

1112
01:10:43,140 --> 01:10:45,840
have different things working on
my phone the way I want to, but

1113
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:48,900
there's always going to be a
market for that. But to

1114
01:10:48,900 --> 01:10:51,930
kickstart things off to get
things going you and these

1115
01:10:51,930 --> 01:10:56,250
people are coming to us that
come to coming into our system.

1116
01:10:57,510 --> 01:11:01,140
Dave Jones: The the the radio
receivers, the podcast apps are

1117
01:11:01,140 --> 01:11:04,260
already there. It's just it
makes things. It just makes

1118
01:11:04,260 --> 01:11:06,840
things a lot easier when you
want to write that side of it.

1119
01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:09,990
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. And you
know, James wrote a very

1120
01:11:09,990 --> 01:11:17,700
thoughtful article as a radio
futurologist. Which I, which I

1121
01:11:17,700 --> 01:11:21,210
did want to say something about
the title of is why overcast is

1122
01:11:21,210 --> 01:11:25,020
more than just a podcast player.
And I think he really hit it on

1123
01:11:25,020 --> 01:11:27,660
the head with something that I
hadn't even really considered.

1124
01:11:27,990 --> 01:11:34,440
And that's the voice boost. And
I just want to put out there

1125
01:11:34,440 --> 01:11:38,460
that I think he's right. See,
I'm a I'm against silence

1126
01:11:38,460 --> 01:11:41,700
choppers. I'm against speed
listening, I think it's bad for

1127
01:11:41,700 --> 01:11:46,200
your health. I'm against all of
that. However, he wrote in this

1128
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:50,220
article. Voice boost by itself
is an excellent feature. Because

1129
01:11:50,220 --> 01:11:53,190
of podcasting is open nature,
the app is literally playing the

1130
01:11:53,190 --> 01:11:56,370
sound file direct from the
podcast hosting company. So

1131
01:11:56,370 --> 01:11:59,250
there's no opportunity for
podcast apps to do any form of

1132
01:11:59,250 --> 01:12:02,790
quality control. This is not
something fully understood by my

1133
01:12:02,790 --> 01:12:06,450
broadcast friends, who assumed
there is some form of ingestion

1134
01:12:06,450 --> 01:12:11,310
process. Yeah. And and his
answer is for you to this is a

1135
01:12:11,310 --> 01:12:18,690
very good point. I, I use
podcast guru as my go to lately,

1136
01:12:19,050 --> 01:12:24,360
and it has a voice boost. And
but but it's I think the voice

1137
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:27,840
boost on overcast has little
more processing than just a

1138
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:33,180
volume boost. And I guess my
point is, there's more to why

1139
01:12:33,180 --> 01:12:40,350
people use apps than just your
UI. Yes, view is super

1140
01:12:40,350 --> 01:12:43,260
important. Don't get me wrong,
but there's a lot of subtle

1141
01:12:43,260 --> 01:12:47,820
things that I hadn't even
considered. And, and I know from

1142
01:12:47,820 --> 01:12:51,930
my own experience, that for a
while for the last 10 years, for

1143
01:12:51,930 --> 01:12:56,610
sure. People say to me, no
agenda has the best sound. Now,

1144
01:12:56,640 --> 01:13:00,660
if you listen to no agenda on
the radio, you'd go nuts. But,

1145
01:13:01,050 --> 01:13:05,100
but I process it for earbuds
this is this is my and I use

1146
01:13:05,130 --> 01:13:08,400
similar processing for this
podcast. I process it for

1147
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:12,360
earbuds and I process it so that
you know it's you know, I don't

1148
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:14,700
want background sound which is
you know, we don't have

1149
01:13:14,700 --> 01:13:18,180
professional studios. So I use
noise gating and there's always

1150
01:13:18,210 --> 01:13:20,760
people like, the noise gates
sucks. It's Poppins. I don't

1151
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:24,810
like it. But in general, people
say wow, you know, you've ruined

1152
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:28,770
You've ruined my podcast
listening by the sound that you

1153
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:33,150
that you produce. So I just want
to tell people who are creating

1154
01:13:33,180 --> 01:13:35,250
apps that's important too.

1155
01:13:36,540 --> 01:13:40,110
Dave Jones: That's a good point
because the is the voice. The

1156
01:13:40,110 --> 01:13:45,240
voice boost in overcast, I
believe is compression.

1157
01:13:45,299 --> 01:13:47,759
Adam Curry: Thalia? It's
compression, EQ, there's some

1158
01:13:47,759 --> 01:13:50,909
there's some. I mean, I don't
have an iPhone, so I can't

1159
01:13:50,969 --> 01:13:55,199
evaluate it. But I know I know
that. It's doing something

1160
01:13:55,199 --> 01:13:58,199
beyond just, you know, plush 3d
Bees.

1161
01:13:58,469 --> 01:14:01,109
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's yeah,
it's more than just jacking the

1162
01:14:01,109 --> 01:14:03,359
volume up. Because when you just
check the volume up the you make

1163
01:14:03,359 --> 01:14:07,109
the loud guy too loud. And the
soft guys actually is okay. But

1164
01:14:07,109 --> 01:14:10,259
if you what you want is for them
to be both at the same volume.

1165
01:14:11,069 --> 01:14:15,539
And I don't know. I know
overcast, is one of the maybe

1166
01:14:15,539 --> 01:14:22,589
only if not very few. I want to
say maybe the only one who runs

1167
01:14:22,679 --> 01:14:24,569
the app has its own audio engine

1168
01:14:25,049 --> 01:14:27,839
Adam Curry: doesn't cast
thematic everyone cast

1169
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:29,850
Dave Jones: thematic may as well
you have Franco Yeah, you're

1170
01:14:29,850 --> 01:14:33,600
right. I think Franco also has
his own. So like, so when you

1171
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:38,550
play when you play an audio file
back using using overcast it's

1172
01:14:38,550 --> 01:14:42,930
actually decoding the mp3
directly thrown frame by frame.

1173
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:47,490
Oh, wow. So it gets it's it has
a chance. It's it's in the

1174
01:14:47,490 --> 01:14:51,270
pipeline and it has a chance to
do some of those magical things.

1175
01:14:51,300 --> 01:14:53,610
Adam Curry: I think James really
nailed it here. I mean, this

1176
01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:56,790
Yeah, people don't realize why
they like that app. They don't

1177
01:14:56,790 --> 01:15:01,110
realize it, but it just feels
good for some reason it feels

1178
01:15:01,110 --> 01:15:02,970
good to them. And I think that's
a big part of it.

1179
01:15:03,510 --> 01:15:05,610
Dave Jones: Well, in your in
going back to the India thing

1180
01:15:05,610 --> 01:15:08,700
and the WaveLight thing, that's,
that's one of the things that

1181
01:15:08,700 --> 01:15:12,030
you that you get the advantage
of there's somebody already has

1182
01:15:12,030 --> 01:15:15,090
a built an app that they like,
you don't have to convince them

1183
01:15:15,090 --> 01:15:19,440
to change, you just publish
through RSS, right? And you

1184
01:15:19,440 --> 01:15:22,020
don't you don't have to, you
don't have to write your own

1185
01:15:22,020 --> 01:15:25,710
app. And then you don't have to
put you don't have to convince

1186
01:15:25,710 --> 01:15:29,070
somebody to change apps. Now
somebody may want to change apps

1187
01:15:29,070 --> 01:15:33,060
eventually to something else for
a specific piece of content like

1188
01:15:33,180 --> 01:15:35,700
somebody may think this this
other app is better at playing

1189
01:15:35,700 --> 01:15:39,840
music or but better to playing
film. But they can start where

1190
01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:44,460
they're at Yeah, they don't have
to Yes Yeah, nothing that's a

1191
01:15:44,460 --> 01:15:50,190
really good point. And in this
again, the power of RSS is that

1192
01:15:50,190 --> 01:15:55,140
these it does not force
everybody in the one thing

1193
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:55,950
exactly.

1194
01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:00,959
Adam Curry: Oh, boy, I'd love
talking just with you sometimes.

1195
01:16:01,770 --> 01:16:05,580
Dave Jones: It's it's nice if as
long as they don't come home and

1196
01:16:05,580 --> 01:16:08,340
have to rebuild my computer
within 15 minutes to play on

1197
01:16:08,370 --> 01:16:11,160
Windows 11 The whole thing just
feels

1198
01:16:11,160 --> 01:16:13,680
Adam Curry: so weird. We play a
song for a minute just take a

1199
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:14,850
little breather for a second

1200
01:16:15,210 --> 01:16:16,110
Dave Jones: let's do it all
right

1201
01:16:16,859 --> 01:16:20,399
Adam Curry: all right. I know I
like this yeah I don't know if

1202
01:16:20,399 --> 01:16:23,099
I've played these guys on our
show before but I played them on

1203
01:16:23,099 --> 01:16:26,339
boosted grandpa I really like
what they're doing and their way

1204
01:16:26,339 --> 01:16:30,749
into value for value playing now
in podcasting 2.0 This is the

1205
01:16:30,749 --> 01:16:33,659
trusted Millennium remember to
boost

1206
01:16:45,300 --> 01:16:50,490
Unknown: cells to give children
around a one that just no one's

1207
01:16:50,490 --> 01:16:55,950
cry just cry with

1208
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:08,100
ease is one of these awards such
as just

1209
01:17:37,500 --> 01:17:43,380
want to be seen

1210
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:55,080
one ever want to see you
tonight?

1211
01:18:25,829 --> 01:18:37,949
was so much to do not enough to
teach

1212
01:19:02,460 --> 01:19:04,860
Hi, this is Amy

1213
01:19:19,590 --> 01:19:22,650
Adam Curry: I just love that. I
love those guys. And I was

1214
01:19:22,650 --> 01:19:26,310
right. I played it on February 2
Dobie das popped into the chat

1215
01:19:26,310 --> 01:19:30,300
and he of course has been
tracking all these things on RSS

1216
01:19:30,300 --> 01:19:34,470
Buddha comm slash top. And
that's another thing. You know,

1217
01:19:34,470 --> 01:19:40,440
I love these what I call 2.0
native podcast hosts. Yeah,

1218
01:19:40,469 --> 01:19:43,409
Dave Jones: yes. That's pretty
rare. It's pretty rare because

1219
01:19:43,409 --> 01:19:45,569
you have somebody who's like,
hey, I want to do an audio book.

1220
01:19:45,569 --> 01:19:47,999
It's like, oh, well, here I got
a host for you. Exactly.

1221
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:53,040
Adam Curry: Exactly. Yeah, is
read. Yes. That's the right

1222
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:56,580
word. That's the right word.
It's Read. Read. Totally read,

1223
01:19:56,580 --> 01:19:57,990
bro. Exactly.

1224
01:19:58,619 --> 01:19:59,729
Dave Jones: Oh, well. Thanks for
people.

1225
01:20:00,299 --> 01:20:02,489
Adam Curry: Ah yeah hold on a
second what is going on here?

1226
01:20:02,489 --> 01:20:03,389
Why is this thing

1227
01:20:05,759 --> 01:20:07,679
Dave Jones: is my is my computer
NO NO

1228
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:12,420
Adam Curry: NO NO my No my for
some reason let me see if I can

1229
01:20:12,420 --> 01:20:15,030
reset this that's odd

1230
01:20:15,839 --> 01:20:17,999
Dave Jones: one thing I've been
trying to be careful of is that

1231
01:20:18,209 --> 01:20:23,549
I'm afraid that my I'm afraid
that my computer audio may be

1232
01:20:23,669 --> 01:20:26,969
may come back through to you and
I don't but I don't know for

1233
01:20:26,969 --> 01:20:30,869
sure so I've been trying not not
to touch anything because on the

1234
01:20:30,869 --> 01:20:37,199
on the on the on the Ubuntu box
it would not do that. I'm not

1235
01:20:37,199 --> 01:20:38,699
sure if this does or not

1236
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:42,390
Adam Curry: something really
weird happened for some reason

1237
01:20:42,390 --> 01:20:51,750
it's the split kid is now is now
broadcasting songs we're not

1238
01:20:51,750 --> 01:20:58,080
playing but yeah, I know I know
right? What what Okay, no, I

1239
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:00,660
have no idea why it's doing that
let me see if I can stop this

1240
01:21:00,690 --> 01:21:05,610
nonsense that's very very odd
All right. Why don't you want to

1241
01:21:05,610 --> 01:21:13,440
start boy this is bad I don't
know how to stop it. Stop stops

1242
01:21:13,709 --> 01:21:16,379
Dave Jones: getting somebody's
getting set up right?

1243
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:20,670
Adam Curry: Yes, we are value
for value. I'm going to kick it

1244
01:21:20,670 --> 01:21:27,210
off with Let me see. Oh boy, we
got some live books which are

1245
01:21:27,210 --> 01:21:35,040
worth mentioning. herbivore band
3333 They also recently did a

1246
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:42,150
live lit and value for value gig
thanks Adam for fixing up winds

1247
01:21:42,150 --> 01:21:45,870
of change in the index and and
playing on boosted Rambo

1248
01:21:45,900 --> 01:21:50,550
returning back some value. Thank
you. It's my pleasure. Blueberry

1249
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:54,300
3333 Adam glad you mentioned the
credit roll at the end of movies

1250
01:21:54,300 --> 01:21:56,850
that was the chosen probably the
thing I'm most hands down

1251
01:21:56,850 --> 01:22:01,590
excited for about our concert is
right blueberries doing Google

1252
01:22:01,590 --> 01:22:03,540
he's doing a concert where he's
gonna He's gonna come in on the

1253
01:22:03,540 --> 01:22:04,800
show in April to talk about it

1254
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:07,710
Dave Jones: Yeah, we Yeah movies
coming on the show cool.

1255
01:22:09,930 --> 01:22:12,240
Adam Curry: Most thing um, hands
down I'm most excited about for

1256
01:22:12,240 --> 01:22:14,880
our concert as the stream will
conclude with a full credit roll

1257
01:22:14,880 --> 01:22:17,880
with all producers are donated
being listed as associate slash

1258
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:23,070
executive producers very nice.
Nice, lavish with 11,111. A

1259
01:22:23,070 --> 01:22:27,120
boost is a thank for the Aynsley
show being as sharp as it was

1260
01:22:27,120 --> 01:22:31,500
time and talent indeed. And then
of course is the $100,000 booths

1261
01:22:31,500 --> 01:22:36,270
from Sam Sethi. We appreciate
you Sam 1111 from upbeats salty

1262
01:22:36,270 --> 01:22:39,810
crayon as usual. The noster
farts sniffing Bitcoin bros.

1263
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:44,310
Taking a crap on V for V and
time talent and treasure because

1264
01:22:44,310 --> 01:22:48,120
they never did the ask great
points for Oscar. Indeed.

1265
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:53,640
There's another blueberry 11,111
There's so much to say about

1266
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:57,270
this upcoming concert stream of
12 rods April 6 Aygo,

1267
01:22:58,200 --> 01:23:02,190
scoreboards disco balls. It's
going to be lit in app fam. We

1268
01:23:02,190 --> 01:23:06,660
need help getting funds together
for lightning package. The more

1269
01:23:06,660 --> 01:23:10,170
info and the substack article by
a bank. I don't know what that

1270
01:23:10,170 --> 01:23:15,540
means. can be found at live is
lit.com. All right. Okay,

1271
01:23:15,540 --> 01:23:19,590
dutiful. Eric p p 3333. Just
came in. Thank you very much.

1272
01:23:19,890 --> 01:23:21,570
Dave Jones: It's webhooks.
Ready? Yeah.

1273
01:23:22,890 --> 01:23:30,120
Adam Curry: And Steve Webb, you
get the Steve Webb one. I'll

1274
01:23:30,120 --> 01:23:31,140
read it just in case.

1275
01:23:31,440 --> 01:23:32,040
Dave Jones: Maybe

1276
01:23:32,070 --> 01:23:37,920
Adam Curry: he sent 33,777 sets.
That's like a lucky slash

1277
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:41,580
striper boost. Thanks Adam and
Dave for helping me sort out the

1278
01:23:41,580 --> 01:23:46,170
magic wallet switching glitch on
the feed for my Lifespring music

1279
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:50,070
show. 2.0 Kudos also to Mike
della blueberry. It took a lot

1280
01:23:50,070 --> 01:23:53,820
of back and forth emails but
with all us guys help the go

1281
01:23:53,820 --> 01:24:00,870
sign is lit May God bless you
richly and go podcasting. And

1282
01:24:01,890 --> 01:24:06,510
then we have one more that came
in from Mike Newman Millennium

1283
01:24:06,510 --> 01:24:09,630
as debuted on phantom power
music our and it's a mood on

1284
01:24:09,630 --> 01:24:13,500
January 26. Love was let go
podcasting indie boy. It's a

1285
01:24:13,500 --> 01:24:16,260
mood go podcasting. Thank you
very much.

1286
01:24:16,740 --> 01:24:21,690
Dave Jones: Get a Pay Pal from
Oscar Mary. On the show last

1287
01:24:21,690 --> 01:24:22,860
week. $200.

1288
01:24:23,099 --> 01:24:23,759
Adam Curry: Nice.

1289
01:24:23,940 --> 01:24:26,880
Dave Jones: Thank you Oscar. He
knows he explained value for

1290
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:28,410
value and then he did value for
value.

1291
01:24:28,409 --> 01:24:32,399
Unknown: Okay, I'm gonna give
him a big Bala. Sakala 20 is

1292
01:24:32,399 --> 01:24:35,729
Blaze on am Paula shoot you
both. Thank you so

1293
01:24:35,729 --> 01:24:38,999
Dave Jones: much. And then we
got pod verse. Mitch and the

1294
01:24:38,999 --> 01:24:42,359
boys over there. $50 Mitch,

1295
01:24:42,359 --> 01:24:44,069
Adam Curry: thank you, boys.
Thank you so much.

1296
01:24:45,750 --> 01:24:47,370
Dave Jones: And then I hope
you're doing well. Mitch,

1297
01:24:47,370 --> 01:24:50,730
wouldn't you need to have Mitch
on the show? So definitely rent.

1298
01:24:50,910 --> 01:24:54,780
Randall black we get a new $5
month subscription from Randall

1299
01:24:54,780 --> 01:24:57,900
no note from him. Thank you,
Randy. Thank you. I appreciate

1300
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:02,310
guests and booths. We got Gina
Ever it through fountain nice

1301
01:25:02,610 --> 01:25:08,550
3333 Says Joe Rogan videos on
YouTube again. We could go every

1302
01:25:08,550 --> 01:25:12,480
episode posts starting five days
ago, and there's a way to figure

1303
01:25:12,480 --> 01:25:15,720
it out as people, all my friends
like Rogan and nine out of 10

1304
01:25:15,720 --> 01:25:19,080
Watch not listen, even though
it's annoying to get video while

1305
01:25:19,080 --> 01:25:23,190
it's been Spotify only they all
watched last. They all watched

1306
01:25:23,190 --> 01:25:25,710
last on YouTube. That's,

1307
01:25:26,040 --> 01:25:27,840
Adam Curry: I guess where they
were talking about if he was

1308
01:25:27,840 --> 01:25:28,800
back on YouTube.

1309
01:25:29,220 --> 01:25:33,840
Dave Jones: Yes, right. Oh, we
got 3333 from herbivore band.

1310
01:25:34,050 --> 01:25:38,010
Oh, fro through fountain he says
Would Love Live video support

1311
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:39,510
through I would like that too.
And

1312
01:25:40,680 --> 01:25:43,350
Adam Curry: yeah, we did we ask
Oscar about that. And he was

1313
01:25:43,350 --> 01:25:46,140
like, no, no, no, he wasn't too
sure.

1314
01:25:47,010 --> 01:25:51,540
Dave Jones: He wasn't big on it.
But I mean, you developers, they

1315
01:25:51,540 --> 01:25:52,170
do what they're,

1316
01:25:52,260 --> 01:25:54,300
Adam Curry: they do what they
want to do. They do what they

1317
01:25:54,300 --> 01:25:56,430
want to do. That's right. Yeah.
And

1318
01:25:57,210 --> 01:26:00,930
Dave Jones: if when it if
there's content there, there's

1319
01:26:00,930 --> 01:26:03,870
enough and compelling enough and
people need it. I'm sure he

1320
01:26:03,870 --> 01:26:09,900
would do it. Yes. Jean been 2222
through cast Matic. He says Jean

1321
01:26:09,900 --> 01:26:13,710
Everett isn't me. I enjoyed last
week's show quite a lot. Wasn't

1322
01:26:13,710 --> 01:26:17,700
me though. I apologize gene
being I get you I get gene bein

1323
01:26:17,700 --> 01:26:22,470
and Gene Everett mix up. Oh, my
apologies. Oh, boy. See

1324
01:26:22,470 --> 01:26:28,200
anonymous. 500 SATs says this
song slaps. Whatever it was,

1325
01:26:28,200 --> 01:26:33,360
we're happy to like to. Yes.
Source de 1701 Star Trek boost.

1326
01:26:33,750 --> 01:26:37,050
Thank you. Source day.
Appreciate that. Again, Sir

1327
01:26:37,050 --> 01:26:42,900
Brian of London a 11948. A super
Israeli found founding boost.

1328
01:26:42,900 --> 01:26:46,350
It's a big Lucasta Matic NaVi
says, I'm in Hadera in the

1329
01:26:46,350 --> 01:26:49,290
middle of Israel at a robot
competition, but my phone is

1330
01:26:49,290 --> 01:26:51,390
telling me I'm in Beirut at the
airport again.

1331
01:26:53,130 --> 01:26:55,380
Adam Curry: They're messing with
GPS over there, man. They're

1332
01:26:55,380 --> 01:26:56,850
doing a lot of weird stuff.

1333
01:26:57,630 --> 01:27:01,020
Dave Jones: IP address
geolocation is so sketchy. We do

1334
01:27:01,050 --> 01:27:07,260
so as part of part of Office
365. And these kinds of things

1335
01:27:07,260 --> 01:27:11,700
that most enterprises use, it
will alert you when somebody

1336
01:27:11,730 --> 01:27:14,670
which is extremely beneficial,
it will alert you when somebody

1337
01:27:14,700 --> 01:27:17,640
logs in from a new location.
That's not that's out of the

1338
01:27:17,640 --> 01:27:20,790
ordinary for them. Sort of,
it'll say it'll, you'll get an

1339
01:27:20,790 --> 01:27:24,360
alert that says, you know, hey,
this person's never, you know,

1340
01:27:24,660 --> 01:27:27,780
is always in the same late
place. But now all of a sudden

1341
01:27:27,780 --> 01:27:31,650
they're logging in rip RIP, RIP
rip danger. Will Robert Wingham

1342
01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:34,410
Yeah, now they're logging in
from Rotterdam. He's like, whoa,

1343
01:27:34,410 --> 01:27:34,740
okay,

1344
01:27:35,159 --> 01:27:36,209
Adam Curry: problem problem.

1345
01:27:36,780 --> 01:27:39,360
Dave Jones: But this hat, but
this gets triggered false alarms

1346
01:27:39,390 --> 01:27:44,940
all the time. Because these
geolocation just know, moved.

1347
01:27:44,970 --> 01:27:47,730
Yeah, the IP address blocks get
moved around a lot and they just

1348
01:27:47,730 --> 01:27:52,830
like, Yeah, you can't trust this
stuff at all. To see another

1349
01:27:52,830 --> 01:27:56,370
anonymous five 500 says thank
you for the for the song we

1350
01:27:56,370 --> 01:28:01,050
played last week. 20 c 23,000.
Set Wait. Whoa, is this the

1351
01:28:01,050 --> 01:28:01,650
delimiter?

1352
01:28:01,889 --> 01:28:05,819
Adam Curry: Yes, I think it is.
I saw it come in Yeah. From CSB.

1353
01:28:06,389 --> 01:28:08,459
Dave Jones: Okay. You read the
okay. You read the Steve Webb.

1354
01:28:08,549 --> 01:28:12,689
Yeah, gotcha. Yep. And then we
got one from Chris last 10,000

1355
01:28:12,689 --> 01:28:16,049
SATs through fountain he says
great chat. I'm really impressed

1356
01:28:16,049 --> 01:28:20,309
with the direction of fountain
they're building. I'm really

1357
01:28:20,309 --> 01:28:23,459
impressed with the direction of
fountain they're building.

1358
01:28:25,319 --> 01:28:28,829
They're building something
special. But what he wrote was

1359
01:28:28,859 --> 01:28:32,609
what autocorrected probably was
their building trumping special.

1360
01:28:33,059 --> 01:28:33,419
Oh,

1361
01:28:33,420 --> 01:28:36,540
Adam Curry: yeah. Well, we know
what you're doing. Yes, we know

1362
01:28:36,540 --> 01:28:41,610
what you're typing. Uh huh.
Yeah, and camp can't fool us.

1363
01:28:41,610 --> 01:28:42,000
Bruh

1364
01:28:42,300 --> 01:28:47,430
Dave Jones: busted. Okay. Comic
Strip blogger 23,000 sets.

1365
01:28:47,730 --> 01:28:51,330
Fountain is the delimiter he
says, howdy, Dave and Adam,

1366
01:28:51,990 --> 01:28:58,200
complex candour podcast at WWW
dot complex. candour.com is the

1367
01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:02,460
place where armchair philosophy
meets the Liberty minded lady,

1368
01:29:02,460 --> 01:29:06,540
Vox and Sam tackle a variety of
topics from both historical and

1369
01:29:06,540 --> 01:29:10,500
strategic standpoints discussing
how we got to this place and how

1370
01:29:10,500 --> 01:29:14,370
we might think our way out of
it. Welcome to the complex yo

1371
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:15,030
zsp.

1372
01:29:15,029 --> 01:29:16,079
Adam Curry: Joe CSB.

1373
01:29:16,079 --> 01:29:19,409
Dave Jones: Thank you enjoy the
sunshine CSB.

1374
01:29:20,039 --> 01:29:22,559
Adam Curry: But he was enjoying
this this sunshine. I saw you. I

1375
01:29:22,559 --> 01:29:25,979
saw you talk to him about that.
It's brighter in Poland. Thank

1376
01:29:25,979 --> 01:29:28,499
you all so much. Do we have
anything else or is that all of

1377
01:29:28,499 --> 01:29:29,999
our that's

1378
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:34,380
Dave Jones: all of our booze
monthly? Have you noticed the

1379
01:29:34,380 --> 01:29:39,150
boosts slow down and become
smaller when Bitcoin goes up to

1380
01:29:39,150 --> 01:29:39,960
70,000?

1381
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:47,280
Adam Curry: Well, I'm not sure
if that's I mean, having done

1382
01:29:47,280 --> 01:29:54,180
value for value for 16 years.
After Christmas. It slows down

1383
01:29:54,180 --> 01:30:00,780
to around around this time it
starts to pick up again. I don't

1384
01:30:00,780 --> 01:30:04,950
know if it's related to the
price per se, I'm not sure.

1385
01:30:07,409 --> 01:30:10,949
Dave Jones: monthlies pod page.
Oh, $25

1386
01:30:10,979 --> 01:30:12,959
Adam Curry: Thank you, ma'am.
Yeah, no, I use this stuff a

1387
01:30:12,959 --> 01:30:13,739
lot. I love it.

1388
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:17,970
Dave Jones: Pfeiffer's right tax
returns it. That's a killer to

1389
01:30:18,870 --> 01:30:22,770
new media $1 Thinking new media.
That's Martin Landeskog. Mark

1390
01:30:22,770 --> 01:30:28,050
Graham $1 Thank you Mark. Just
maraca $5. Emilio Kendall Molina

1391
01:30:28,050 --> 01:30:33,480
$4, Lauren ball $24.20 and basil
Phillip $25.

1392
01:30:33,539 --> 01:30:35,519
Adam Curry: Well, thank you all
very much your group we are

1393
01:30:35,519 --> 01:30:37,949
value for value, would we talk
about it throughout the whole

1394
01:30:37,949 --> 01:30:41,369
show, but I'll just remind you,
that the podcast, the servers,

1395
01:30:41,369 --> 01:30:44,609
everything runs on the value
returned to the project. And

1396
01:30:45,359 --> 01:30:49,019
Dave, and I take none of it. We
just keep it in on the node,

1397
01:30:49,319 --> 01:30:53,189
particularly the Satoshis. And
we keep everything on AutoPay.

1398
01:30:53,189 --> 01:30:56,459
So the servers will keep running
if we fall down dead. We hope

1399
01:30:57,089 --> 01:30:57,779
it'll be

1400
01:30:57,780 --> 01:31:00,540
Dave Jones: fun to see once we
die. How long have the servers

1401
01:31:00,540 --> 01:31:04,290
were run until like, we're just
not getting we're not giving

1402
01:31:04,290 --> 01:31:05,490
anybody any passwords?

1403
01:31:05,519 --> 01:31:08,399
Adam Curry: No, he's just gonna
No, no. Hey, you know, you might

1404
01:31:08,399 --> 01:31:11,939
as well download that database
just in case. You never

1405
01:31:11,939 --> 01:31:14,969
Dave Jones: know grabbing it
until at the very end, go to

1406
01:31:14,999 --> 01:31:18,659
podcast. Curious I Voyager One,
it's still it's still taken out

1407
01:31:18,659 --> 01:31:18,869
there.

1408
01:31:18,869 --> 01:31:21,899
Adam Curry: Yeah, barely it,
send them pings. Go to podcast

1409
01:31:21,899 --> 01:31:24,539
index.org. Down at the bottom
you'll see two red donate

1410
01:31:24,539 --> 01:31:28,229
buttons one for your Fiat fun
coupons. We we of course, accept

1411
01:31:28,259 --> 01:31:33,089
your pay pals. But we love your
arm on chain, a tally coin. No

1412
01:31:33,089 --> 01:31:36,299
one today. But you know, maybe
one of those guys who are

1413
01:31:36,629 --> 01:31:39,719
getting rid of 1000 Bitcoins.
And we're on our way you never

1414
01:31:39,719 --> 01:31:43,859
know, which is good karma. Good
Karma. And of course, what we

1415
01:31:43,859 --> 01:31:47,879
really love is when you boost us
because that is the full circle

1416
01:31:47,879 --> 01:31:50,969
of value for value with the
feedback loop. We'd love reading

1417
01:31:50,969 --> 01:31:54,179
your booster grams. And you can
get a modern podcast app at

1418
01:31:54,179 --> 01:31:55,529
podcast apps.com.

1419
01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:04,380
Do we need to talk about fair
defying at all?

1420
01:32:06,149 --> 01:32:07,649
Dave Jones: Fair to saying yeah,
you

1421
01:32:07,650 --> 01:32:10,200
Adam Curry: know the activity
pub stuff and you know where

1422
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:12,210
we're at? Because, you know, we
kind of stopped talking about

1423
01:32:12,210 --> 01:32:18,810
it. Because basically, you know
where it's working? Is it just

1424
01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:21,120
do we need to is there anything
we need to do about it, just

1425
01:32:21,210 --> 01:32:23,970
just let it run? What's the next
step in this process?

1426
01:32:24,600 --> 01:32:28,500
Dave Jones: I think from now, I
had, I think I just paused it.

1427
01:32:29,610 --> 01:32:32,580
Because this is a busy time of
year for me. And it was mostly

1428
01:32:32,580 --> 01:32:36,420
done. And it just runs. And then
also needed to do some bigger

1429
01:32:36,420 --> 01:32:40,020
things as I need to, to to
return to the index and to the

1430
01:32:40,020 --> 01:32:43,470
namespace to do some stuff. And
that was kind of getting

1431
01:32:43,470 --> 01:32:46,080
neglected because I was over
there in activity pub world for

1432
01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:50,550
so long. Like one of those
things I've been needing to do

1433
01:32:50,550 --> 01:32:53,340
is make a way for you to change
a feed URL and the index. Oh,

1434
01:32:53,340 --> 01:32:53,610
yeah, I

1435
01:32:53,610 --> 01:32:56,340
Adam Curry: saw that. Thank you
so much. That's one of the few

1436
01:32:56,340 --> 01:32:58,470
things that I was frustrated
about that I couldn't help

1437
01:32:58,470 --> 01:33:02,040
people with. Yeah, that's really
good.

1438
01:33:02,610 --> 01:33:05,010
Dave Jones: Is it like it's like
little niggling things like

1439
01:33:05,010 --> 01:33:08,010
that, that are just like, you
know, they really need to be

1440
01:33:08,010 --> 01:33:11,010
done. But it's always been like
at the bottom of this long list.

1441
01:33:11,340 --> 01:33:15,270
So I got I'm doing those things.
Yes. Therapy, right keys and

1442
01:33:15,270 --> 01:33:17,820
addresses. Gonna take care of
the fee stuff. And then

1443
01:33:18,389 --> 01:33:21,809
Adam Curry: what's the queue
send out? Oh, you mean? Yeah. In

1444
01:33:21,809 --> 01:33:23,429
the namespace that change? Yeah,

1445
01:33:23,610 --> 01:33:25,650
Dave Jones: yeah, yeah, some of
those things that are just like,

1446
01:33:25,680 --> 01:33:28,800
they're not big, huge changes,
but they they're just they just

1447
01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:30,930
to do thing, their to do list
items.

1448
01:33:31,110 --> 01:33:35,160
Adam Curry: You know, I love
having, of course, I'm on the

1449
01:33:35,370 --> 01:33:40,470
info at podcast index.org email
alias. So I love it when people

1450
01:33:40,470 --> 01:33:44,430
send stuff and like, hey, how do
I fix this? And then I have the

1451
01:33:44,430 --> 01:33:47,340
power to fix it. And I'm like,
Oh, thank you. I'm so happy.

1452
01:33:47,340 --> 01:33:52,290
This is so awesome. You guys
rock. Yeah, always makes me feel

1453
01:33:52,290 --> 01:33:55,350
really good. So now that I can,
you know, I was like I was

1454
01:33:55,350 --> 01:34:00,420
helping Steve Webb with his with
his 2.0 feed. I did that on your

1455
01:34:00,420 --> 01:34:03,600
list as well to show values time
value splits. I know. It's like

1456
01:34:03,630 --> 01:34:05,640
not like you don't have enough
to do already.

1457
01:34:07,199 --> 01:34:10,229
Dave Jones: It's not on my to do
list. And now it's somebody

1458
01:34:10,229 --> 01:34:12,959
else. Someone else could put
that on the to do list. I'll

1459
01:34:12,959 --> 01:34:15,239
tell you one thing with the
website that is on my to do list

1460
01:34:15,239 --> 01:34:20,039
is following and podcast in, in
the fediverse from the website

1461
01:34:21,029 --> 01:34:21,929
to where you can like,

1462
01:34:22,140 --> 01:34:24,300
Adam Curry: oh, okay, yeah,
yeah.

1463
01:34:24,659 --> 01:34:26,729
Dave Jones: Because the code and
everything is already there

1464
01:34:26,729 --> 01:34:31,829
based on what Nathan and Geller
me and those guys did back then.

1465
01:34:32,249 --> 01:34:35,429
So you can just like, I'm just
gonna have to rearrange some of

1466
01:34:35,429 --> 01:34:39,929
that code to get it to where you
can say like, I want to follow

1467
01:34:39,929 --> 01:34:43,859
this person and activity, this
podcast activity pub, and then

1468
01:34:43,859 --> 01:34:46,829
it pops up and asks you for your
instance and all that and

1469
01:34:47,970 --> 01:34:51,000
Adam Curry: yeah, back and
forth. Now that's cool. That's

1470
01:34:51,000 --> 01:34:54,480
cool. Yeah, yeah, I mean, with
that, combined with the pod

1471
01:34:54,480 --> 01:34:59,850
ping, people can basically build
their own index. Just so it in

1472
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:00,120
by

1473
01:35:01,199 --> 01:35:04,529
Dave Jones: which we can talk
about this.

1474
01:35:04,679 --> 01:35:08,009
Adam Curry: And before you do
that, I want to say two things.

1475
01:35:08,009 --> 01:35:12,509
One, I'm looking for web hooks,
so I can point our podcasts and

1476
01:35:12,509 --> 01:35:16,709
2.0 helipad feed to it. Or web
hook thing, whatever. So if you

1477
01:35:16,709 --> 01:35:20,939
got an idea, send that to me,
too. I've written down exactly

1478
01:35:20,939 --> 01:35:25,799
zero show titles. No. So I need
to show title boardroom. All

1479
01:35:25,799 --> 01:35:27,479
right? Well, you want to talk
about

1480
01:35:29,550 --> 01:35:33,450
Dave Jones: I had somebody
contact me through podcast

1481
01:35:33,450 --> 01:35:39,810
index, email, and somebody from
a one of these large language

1482
01:35:39,810 --> 01:35:43,170
model AI companies that ever I
think most people would know the

1483
01:35:43,170 --> 01:35:49,170
name, I'm not going to say it.
But they contacted me about

1484
01:35:49,170 --> 01:35:55,680
getting all the episode data out
of the index. And so, you know,

1485
01:35:55,680 --> 01:35:58,260
typically, we don't do that,
because it's 120 million

1486
01:35:58,260 --> 01:36:04,080
episodes, it's 150 Gig database
table. So we don't make that

1487
01:36:04,080 --> 01:36:08,370
available. But if people ask for
it, I will give it to them. And

1488
01:36:08,370 --> 01:36:11,250
typically, we'll ask them, you
know, for at least some sort of

1489
01:36:11,250 --> 01:36:18,060
donation to cover the fee, the
egress fees. Because it's big,

1490
01:36:18,060 --> 01:36:21,810
it's a big, yeah, it's big. And
if somebody if somebody started

1491
01:36:21,810 --> 01:36:24,930
says, hey, you know, I want this
an ongoing basis, you know, I

1492
01:36:24,930 --> 01:36:29,970
want to support it. We've done
that for people before where,

1493
01:36:30,000 --> 01:36:32,910
you know, I'll make it available
to them in an object storage

1494
01:36:32,910 --> 01:36:36,240
bucket. And they can, what do
they want? Why

1495
01:36:36,240 --> 01:36:38,520
Adam Curry: did they want that?
What what did they want to do?

1496
01:36:39,060 --> 01:36:41,310
Dave Jones: I'm sure they just
want to, I don't know, for a

1497
01:36:41,310 --> 01:36:43,710
fact, but I'm sure they want to
ingest it into their large

1498
01:36:43,710 --> 01:36:47,610
language model. Descriptions and
transcripts and all that kind of

1499
01:36:47,610 --> 01:36:51,030
stuff. Got it? Sure. That's what
it's for. And I guess, you know,

1500
01:36:51,030 --> 01:36:55,050
and of course, I mean, I'm, I'm
not going to say no, I mean,

1501
01:36:55,050 --> 01:36:58,770
this, we give this We exist to
give this stuff away, and it's

1502
01:36:58,770 --> 01:37:02,760
free out there. So, you know, if
somebody wants it, I'm glad to

1503
01:37:02,760 --> 01:37:09,660
get him. I'm not gonna say, Oh,
we don't like you. That's not

1504
01:37:09,660 --> 01:37:10,020
gonna do.

1505
01:37:10,110 --> 01:37:12,150
Adam Curry: But you still don't
you still don't give them the

1506
01:37:12,270 --> 01:37:14,280
email addresses in that right?
Oh,

1507
01:37:14,279 --> 01:37:19,769
Dave Jones: no, no, no, no, we
don't get that stuff. So anyway,

1508
01:37:19,769 --> 01:37:22,019
I just told him, I just told
this person what I tell

1509
01:37:22,019 --> 01:37:25,319
everybody and like, Well, hey,
you know, if you want, I'm glad

1510
01:37:25,319 --> 01:37:29,159
to give it to you. You know, if
you want it on an ongoing basis,

1511
01:37:29,669 --> 01:37:32,309
you know, I'd appreciate some
sort of donation to come nib to

1512
01:37:32,309 --> 01:37:35,009
cover our costs and value for
value and that kind of thing.

1513
01:37:35,009 --> 01:37:38,939
And because obviously, if you
want it on a repeated basis, it

1514
01:37:38,939 --> 01:37:41,069
must be valuable. So think
about, you know, consider

1515
01:37:41,069 --> 01:37:46,469
donating. But I guess I just
wondered, Is there is that cool?

1516
01:37:46,499 --> 01:37:49,139
I mean, is that is, you know, to

1517
01:37:49,140 --> 01:37:52,620
Adam Curry: do that? Do you mean
to ask us for a donation? Or

1518
01:37:52,620 --> 01:37:53,580
what what do you

1519
01:37:54,689 --> 01:37:57,839
Dave Jones: not ask for a
donation? But no, I don't have a

1520
01:37:57,839 --> 01:38:00,959
problem with that. But because I
mean, we can't make them and I'm

1521
01:38:00,959 --> 01:38:02,609
still gonna give it to them
regardless. I mean, it's not

1522
01:38:02,609 --> 01:38:09,569
like that. But I guess, is it
cool to give all this data to

1523
01:38:09,569 --> 01:38:14,879
one of these large language
model? Companies like that? Is

1524
01:38:14,879 --> 01:38:18,359
there any mmm missing an ethical
thing here? I don't think I am.

1525
01:38:18,389 --> 01:38:21,629
I mean, it's just is what it is.
Right? I

1526
01:38:21,630 --> 01:38:28,380
Adam Curry: don't think so
either. I mean, the best thing

1527
01:38:28,380 --> 01:38:31,080
that could happen is, someone
says, I'm going to set up a

1528
01:38:31,080 --> 01:38:35,010
better index. Yeah, that's, I
guess the best thing that could

1529
01:38:35,010 --> 01:38:35,490
happen?

1530
01:38:35,789 --> 01:38:37,739
Dave Jones: Well, if they set up
a better index, I'll start using

1531
01:38:37,739 --> 01:38:38,579
it. Yeah, exactly.

1532
01:38:38,729 --> 01:38:43,409
Adam Curry: That's my point.
That's my point. So I mean,

1533
01:38:43,919 --> 01:38:47,759
that's, that's kind of the
beauty. The beauty of it. I

1534
01:38:47,759 --> 01:38:49,289
don't know, well, if anyone has
any.

1535
01:38:50,699 --> 01:38:52,259
Dave Jones: It was just an
interesting thing. Because it's,

1536
01:38:52,289 --> 01:38:55,709
I mean, this is I think this is
a well funded company. I don't

1537
01:38:55,709 --> 01:38:58,739
know how much they're valued at.
But I mean, it's, it's a big,

1538
01:38:58,739 --> 01:39:01,919
well known company. And it's all
public data. I don't feel like

1539
01:39:01,919 --> 01:39:02,579
there's anything

1540
01:39:02,969 --> 01:39:05,849
Adam Curry: weird about, they're
going to train an LLM, they're

1541
01:39:05,849 --> 01:39:11,249
going to spend a lot of money
building that LLM. So good luck

1542
01:39:11,249 --> 01:39:15,839
to them, I guess. Yeah. I mean,
you know, it's who knows what

1543
01:39:15,839 --> 01:39:18,449
will come out of it. I'm sure it
won't be any better than Google

1544
01:39:18,449 --> 01:39:23,459
barf, or Gemini, whatever. It's
called now. Copilot. I mean,

1545
01:39:23,519 --> 01:39:27,869
czar, right. If you know, but
yeah, you would hope that they

1546
01:39:27,869 --> 01:39:30,299
would support us for that.

1547
01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:33,450
Dave Jones: Yeah. I mean, if
they don't, they probably didn't

1548
01:39:33,450 --> 01:39:37,260
find it valuable. moved on.
Yeah. Yeah, I would think I

1549
01:39:37,260 --> 01:39:41,940
mean, this stuff is difficult.
There's so much data in those

1550
01:39:42,390 --> 01:39:46,350
podcasts, show notes and all
that garbage. Man.

1551
01:39:46,920 --> 01:39:49,680
Adam Curry: I could just good
luck with that. That's really

1552
01:39:49,680 --> 01:39:52,290
what you say. Sure. Good luck.
Yeah,

1553
01:39:52,320 --> 01:39:54,780
Dave Jones: yeah. And I don't
you know, I don't ever want to

1554
01:39:54,780 --> 01:39:57,810
like facilitate somebody doing
something creepy, but this does

1555
01:39:57,810 --> 01:39:59,700
have, I guess, system and feel
that way.

1556
01:39:59,999 --> 01:40:02,339
Adam Curry: Now do they say that
worse for an LLM?

1557
01:40:03,510 --> 01:40:06,810
Dave Jones: Do I mean that's the
whole thing this company does.

1558
01:40:06,840 --> 01:40:09,720
Okay. All right. Yes, their
whole business model so I'm

1559
01:40:09,900 --> 01:40:13,350
assuming that's what it's for. I
mean, if it was for some if it

1560
01:40:13,350 --> 01:40:18,780
was like a you know, some kind
of like newsguard A Global

1561
01:40:18,780 --> 01:40:20,820
Engagement centers and doesn't
like that this like this. We're

1562
01:40:20,820 --> 01:40:23,910
gonna look for misinformation.
Yeah, no, no, that'd be like, go

1563
01:40:23,910 --> 01:40:27,480
get it yourself. Yeah, but, but
that didn't feel like what this

1564
01:40:27,480 --> 01:40:28,020
was.

1565
01:40:28,620 --> 01:40:31,260
Adam Curry: Well, we trust you.
We trust your judgment

1566
01:40:32,069 --> 01:40:36,299
Dave Jones: is a terrible thing
to I don't even trust much.

1567
01:40:36,990 --> 01:40:38,640
Adam Curry: Hey, brother. We
started late, but I know you got

1568
01:40:38,640 --> 01:40:41,340
to get back to the office. It's
a busy time for you. So shall we

1569
01:40:41,340 --> 01:40:45,090
call it? Let's call it Okay,
everybody. That's right. We're

1570
01:40:45,090 --> 01:40:47,820
gonna end it right here. That's
it for the board meeting. Love

1571
01:40:47,820 --> 01:40:50,640
to see you back next week on
Friday, same time, same place

1572
01:40:50,640 --> 01:40:52,680
podcasting 2.0.

1573
01:41:08,850 --> 01:41:13,410
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1574
01:41:13,440 --> 01:41:16,170
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01:41:16,590 --> 01:41:17,580
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1576
01:41:19,380 --> 01:41:20,820
Adam Curry: You blew a billion
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