Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 February 2 2024 Episode 166
Country clever. Hello, everybody. Hello transcript AI
engine. Can you keep up with making the podcast and 2.0? And
is the official board meetings of podcasting? In general, not
just the two Oh, all of it. That's right. We are the only
boardroom that puts the BS and value for value. I'm Adam curry
here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country. And in Alabama,
the man who sniffs out feed spam faster than a New York rat
looking for pizza. Say hello to my friend on the other end lays
down with the one and only Mr. De Joe. Trying to turn your name
into Dave Joe. Yes, what you did there. John C. Dvorak. And Dave
Joe. Yeah, exactly. I thought that was the funniest bit of the
very first podcast in 2.0. Transcribed by Apple that they
got your name? Yes. Dave Joe,
Unknown: right out of the gate.
Adam Curry: Honestly, it was pretty hard. I mean, I don't
think many people could have figured that one out, including
the AI Yeah,
Dave Jones: I mean, when you say you know day to day as I would
Adam Curry: I'm just leaving it Dave Joe. Hey, Dave. Joe, how
you doing? I'm
Dave Jones: good. How are you?
Adam Curry: I'm Curtis good over here. Yeah, everything
everything's rockin and rollin. I'm waiting for the for the
Amazon man. I'm very excited. I ordered a remarkable to
Dave Jones: I've seen I've seen little video. By the way. I'm
going to be doing this a lot because I've been fighting a
cold this week. Now
Adam Curry: is that time of year again for you? It's your your
late boys that you're cordially called.
Dave Jones: Yes, yes, it is. That I've seen I've seen little
like blurbs about this thing. What it's what is it like a note
taking device? Yeah, it's
Adam Curry: a buddy of mine. When we went to Dallas. Last
week, my my buddy had it. He's like, I was supposed to get one
from Guy Kawasaki is his company. He said, Oh, you do my
remarkable people podcast and I'll send you one he never sent
me once. Okay. Okay, it was part of this but so long ago was
probably the remarkable one. So that the remarkable to Yeah,
it's like, electronic paper for note taking and I go through so
many notepads, those little yellow legal notepads though, I
Dave Jones: fly through 10 of those things a month. Yeah. And,
Adam Curry: and, you know, I'm always looking for one and then,
you know, as as it get as the stack, as it gets thinner, it
gets harder to write on and then you know, like, it has a time
for a new one. And, yes, and so the whole thing, it's really
just because every single show, I have a page. And you know, and
I write down ideas, thoughts, I usually write down, you know,
maybe just something beforehand, show titles, just the general
stuff and thought, well, it would make sense to have the
gist on some kind of E paper. And I tried it out and I was
pretty impressed. It felt good.
Dave Jones: The joy of a fresh legal pad that's full that
hasn't had any Yeah. You know, like, I mean, it's like, it's
hard to replicate this house. Listen, I don't remember what
this was. I was listening to a podcast one time a long time
ago. And they were saying they had a question that was like if
you were if you were fabulously wealthy like you know, leave the
planet wealthy
Adam Curry: leave your wife wealthy Yes. So leave you as
Dave Jones: if you were that level of fill in the blank
wealthy. And you know, what would one completely frivolous
absurd thing you would you would do because money was no object.
So and I forgot who this was but they were like and I agreed
fully with this with what they with what what He said He said I
would he said the feeling of fresh socks that you just bought
from the store. He's like I would wear a brand new pair of
socks every single day of my life. No, you know like an
interesting I feel that I feel that way about legal pads I
would have I would just never used the fresh fresh
Adam Curry: legal pad. Well yeah, it would be something like
that for me because I had a lot of money at one time and I had
helicopters and castles and it doesn't live up to the hype.
Dave Jones: It really does a fresh socks every day is no
shocks every
Adam Curry: no fresh socks every day is you know might be might
be something that will be good compared to all the other things
you can do is absolutely true. Absolutely true. Hey RSS wins
again brother. We want again RSS wins ago call me on the color
and color daddy
Dave Jones: the most is this is this the okay let me let me let
me explain my my explain
Adam Curry: Morris what that means for people who don't care.
Bob with the podcasting industrial complex, and please
goodness, call her daddy was a Spotify exclusive three years
$60 million rumored because no one really knows these numbers.
Yeah, that's no one really knows Joe Rogan's actual number. They
just, you know, just became a number. I personally think it's
higher than the 200 million people always said it was. And
so that deal, I guess, ended it expired, and she's still on
Spotify, but to the feed is open, and it's available on all
platforms, including the modern podcast apps.
Dave Jones: Now, I've got two thoughts about this. Thought one
is, in this case, I've got this feeling that, that she's a
blabber. And that people actually do know how much this
money was because she seems like the type of person who doesn't
keep these things to herself. That bet you I bet you that the
rumored amount of this is actually pretty accurate.
Adam Curry: Oh, of the first one possibly notice. There's no
Rogen. No. Notice, there's no rumored amount of this. Alice,
she's open, I think the deal is over. They'll do the acid sales,
you know that maybe maybe there's some minimum. But
notice, there's no yeah, they remove renew me for 10 million
and and we're gonna be an old podcast app. So I'm in agreement
with you there that that that would have been part of the part
of the announcement? Was it even an announcement? Or was it just
it just kind of happened?
Dave Jones: I think was a press release. Okay, all right. So um,
her not from Spotify as much. That's the way it looked to me.
They look like it was from her new publishing company or
whatever. The the the other thing is, this is like, this
show in particular has always triggered in me, to my doubt of
Unknown: humanity as humanity. Well,
Dave Jones: yes, yes. But in a roundabout in a very specific
way. That, that we've we're always told that about how
squeamish advertisers are and that they never want to be next
to controversial content or that kind of this is the nastiest
show. I mean, it is just full of all. I mean, it is just not
Adam Curry: raunchy, have you listened, are there ads? Are
they pre rolls, they have anything going on?
Dave Jones: I have not listened. I lit when she first went
exclusive on Spotify. I listened to it to find out what the hype
was. And I didn't make it through. I mean, there's,
there's you have to rate this show it like F bombs per minute.
It is just horrible. And so I didn't I was like, this is
totally not my thing. Right. I haven't listened to it in
probably, you know, a year whatever. She went exclusive.
Let's let's
Adam Curry: see if they ever pre roll on a second. See if they've
pre roll. What is up daddy gang? No pre roll. No,
Dave Jones: that's not a good sign. No,
Adam Curry: I think the deal just ended.
Dave Jones: I think it did, too. I think you're right. And you
know, this is also the other sort of big like deal. News this
week was the Smartlist thing moving from Amazon too serious.
For 100 in that deal, did renew for $100 million. Over three
years.
Adam Curry: I believe that and it's three top guys. They got to
each do about 10 million a year. It's a lot of how many episodes
they do a week.
Dave Jones: I don't know. They just they put out a lot of
content. Yeah, yeah. And
Adam Curry: they're, they're they're big names makes it
what's it called again? What's the show called smartlace is now
is not also available?
Dave Jones: Yes. windowed is like exclusive for the first
week and then runs out Dave. Right. Right.
Adam Curry: Let me see what they do with nine just seems like
once a week, and now wait, this one on the second 115. So
they're doing one by one a week. Now,
Dave Jones: I mean, I feel like I feel like this type of show.
So just because all the big, huge deals dried up doesn't mean
that nobody's worth a lot of money. There are certain shows
that are really worth a lot of money. And this Rogen being one
of them obviously smartlace that I think that 100 million. I
don't think serious would have paid it if they knew they
couldn't if they didn't have a track record of it paying off
Adam Curry: Oh serious paid a lot of money for Stern. I mean,
they Yeah, they're deficit finance. I'm really happy for
Jason Bateman though. I hung out with him. That means that we
talked about this I hung out with a couple times back in the
MTV days he was at the bottom of the stack. His his sister,
Justine Bateman. She was top of the bill. She was I forget what
she was in all kinds of stuff and it was visa so yeah, it was
so bad that people mistakenly called him just Didn't Bateman
you know that I was like it was like he said, people call me
Justin Bateman all the time. I think he was doing Teen Wolf
four or something like that it was. He was really cool. And he
was a super nice guy. I'm like, Oh man, I feel bad for you. It's
just kind of sucks. But this is talent. You know, we learned
that talent Sean Hayes talent. So yeah, I mean, I'm sure that
series can make it worth their while.
Dave Jones: I always judge these things based on if I know
anybody who who has ever who shows awareness of this show, in
that I know people in my sphere that in my friend, group,
Adam Curry: everyone knows about this show. Everybody knows about
it.
Dave Jones: Yeah, so that means I'm like, Okay, if there's
recognize if you can just walk you know, if you can just
casually be talking in a group with with friends. And this
somebody mentions a particular show. That means it's big enough
to be justifying the money that people share on the show.
Adam Curry: Yeah, the three big names so yeah, that makes sense.
I don't know if they're gonna make the money back. But you
know, they, they do a lot of house ads, advertising for other
podcasts. They're really trying to do something that
Dave Jones: is breaking news breaking breaking news, Radio,
Spotify deal renewal worth up to $250 million podcast will no
longer be exclusive to Spotify. Interesting. Nathan just dropped
in variety link
Adam Curry: right, but who says is 250 million. Spotify
Dave Jones: is a new multi year partnership deal for
controversial values
Adam Curry: just said to be worth said to be worth. And
Dave Jones: didn't you pat Rogan's poker show will now be
available on other audio platforms. In addition being
available on Spotify Reagan's show will soon be available on
additional services, including Apple podcasts on Apple, Amazon
music, YouTube, blah, blah, blah. Okay, so it's no this is
this move.
Adam Curry: This move comes under Spotify as revised
strategy to relinquish exclusive streaming rights in favor of
broader distribution. So that means that they could not make
enough money on the ads, if this is true, that they needed more
distribution, which is goes back to my original point, RSS wins.
Yeah. And I know that buying a spot on Rogen is expensive, a
bit because I know someone who tried to buy a spot. He's like,
No, I don't have a million dollars. You have to buy, you
know, not just Rogen, you got to buy a random network. So good.
Well, I'll ping him and I'll congratulate him on this. And
then maybe you'll have me on again. Because he never wants to
invite me before his deal was done. Because, you know, I'm
going to start probing. Like, what's going on? What's going
on? Joe was going on, Joe, I'm happy for him. I was I was
concerned. I mean, I was like, hi, hope Spotify has the money.
Dave Jones: Said to be worth up to 250 million. So if if the
list, let's just say that the room? You know, of course nobody
knows accurate things. Let's just say it is let's just say
that they're in the
Unknown: ballpark. But let's welcome them back to podcasting,
man. Yeah,
Dave Jones: the old one was 200 million. The new one is 250
million plus non exclusivity. Right. That tells me a lot,
right? Yeah, yes. Yeah. He's worth more as a non exclusive
than he is as an exclusive. Yeah. And I think that's
probably why they're doing all this while their break. Well,
they're not doing these. Because there's, you know, there's a lot
of stories about Spotify bringing podcasters in to be
exclusive. And it wrecked their show. Oh, yeah. You You went
exclusive. You got you got this deal. You went exclusive. The
deal ran out. Then you went back on the all the podcast apps. But
you had lost all your subscribers and everybody just
kind of forgotten about your show. And so you're you now Yes,
like you're almost starting from scratch all over again. They
just kind of cut you loose to drift off into the ocean. So
Adam Curry: I wonder if he'll be renewing his Lipson feed if
he'll if he'll pick that up again.
Dave Jones: Huh. Oh, I don't know. That's a good point. Or I
would bet is on megaphone.
Unknown: I would doubt that it's because you would think so.
Yeah, you would. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Welcome back, Joe. Yeah,
Adam Curry: indeed. And I'm just looking like, oh, man, he might
have changed his number. I think I've lost contacts.
Dave Jones: Oh, no. He's ghosting you. Yeah,
Adam Curry: he changes his phone often. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that he's
like just what he'll do is get a new phone. Usually when a new
iPhone comes out, he'll get a new phone and he puts the other
one aside he says because so many idiots get his number he
says six very crazy which I have as well except they're all from
China. And they're all chicks the same chick and I'm Tiffany
Asia.
Dave Jones: Always wanted to always go into get a tennis
practice with you for some reason I Yeah.
Adam Curry: Tennis practice shopping. Are you okay? Haven't
heard from you? Anyway, so I think that that really shows
that that along with with Apple's entrance into the new
into the namespace tag with transcript I think that really
shows that RSS without anyone owning without anyone being in
charge of it, once again, it just keeps on trucking.
Dave Jones: Yeah. And and tell me tell me again how to how RSS
isn't working. No podcasting, audio, you know how podcasting
isn't isn't, you know, paying the bills, I
Adam Curry: think it was I think was Spurlock who posted that.
And it's true that YouTube because they had RSS feeds
YouTube had RSS feeds with a link to the to the video, which
was not as an enclosure or anything. It was just a link. So
you could you could actually follow along. You could
subscribe to youtube feeds, and they removed them. Yeah, that's
all that yeah, surprise, surprise. I know why is because
we were talking about putting those into podcast apps. They're
like, Oh, we can't have that. We have shut it down. We haven't
even figured out our you know, played status yet. We can't have
those guys jumping ahead. That's no good.
Dave Jones: But you have the I thought something I listened to
upon putting these weekly this morning. And I thought something
that they were talking about those pretty interesting. Was
this a cast blocking YouTube ingestion?
Unknown: Oh, they have? I don't have to do that.
Dave Jones: I agree totally with me. No. This is basically what
you said back in. You made you made the point so eloquently
about saying if you you know if you play with YouTube, you're
you know, you're the devil's friend in your ear set your what
do you say your Satan's salesperson?
Adam Curry: Sounds like me?
Dave Jones: In a cast is like, yeah, we're not going to help
Satan. We're gonna, we're gonna go our own way. Because I don't
know why in your world, you would. Right? It's craziness.
You're just giving. If you're if your platform is all based on
digital advertising, why would you just hand that off to
somebody else to monetize is goofy? Yeah.
Adam Curry: Wow. Again, this is this is just it's par for the
course we've seen it all happened. I mean, it's
interesting that there's a parallel here, as we're three
years into podcasting, 2.0 og podcasting started. And, I mean,
we purposely replicated something I did, which was the
daily source code, which was meant for the developers and
really just to give someone everybody who was developing an
application, we had no apps or phones back then an application
for Windows or Mac. And then there was a, there was some
Linux stuff as well, to give them a feed with with a new
enclosure every day with a new item, new enclosure. That was
that was the whole point. And just to talk about what was
going on, and my own personal feedback, so I was kind of
feeding back to the developer. So we replicated that with the
podcast and 2.0 podcast. And it was about, I want to say it was
about three years in when Steve Jobs called me. And that was
that was Apple jumping in saying, hey, we want to do
something with this. And it's been about being Yeah, here's
the parallel about three years and now Apple says, hey, you
know, and they called in, they got they got you. Where's that?
I think? It's kind of it's parallel. I like that. These
things. I don't know. History doesn't always repeat. But
rhyming for sure. For sure.
Dave Jones: Yeah, right. Yeah, definitely. It definitely
rhymes. And I think he that's the other thing about the RSS
world is that everybody is there's a there's always with
RSS, because it's open source. There's always a rising tide
lifts all boats mentality. Sure, sure. People want customers for
their app. Yes, that's the I'm not gonna you know, discount
that you got to it's these some of these apps are businesses.
Some of them aren't. Some of these apps are hobbies and
projects. Some of these apps are businesses, and they won't
customers, and that's fine. But they're really always is. I
mean, that's why podcasting. 2.0 really has brought the podcast
hosting companies together more than they ever were before. They
all knew each other, but they didn't. They didn't communicate
and participate to the level that they do now. I mean,
there's more of a feeling of, you know, we're in this together
type deal. And so I think that, you know, definitely, that's one
thing that that is true about open source in general, but
especially RSS, because when, like when Apple what I saw was
when Apple did this last week. Everybody was happy. I mean, the
app developers and everybody was happy because they're like,
Well, you know, finally we get we're getting the we do like
what Alex said we feel validated. Yes. About the things
that we We're doing because now you know they're doing it to the
left, left here in the new media show this week. Rob's like well,
maybe this is just a you know, maybe this is just a fluke you
Adam Curry: want he watched I mean, I don't know if Todd's not
on I'm sorry. All props to rob but it's the combo you know, you
need the two of them. Otherwise, it's just it's not quite as as
as dangerous and exciting.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I listened. All I heard was the clip that
John's Birla posted, because I'm like, I saw the YouTube link.
I'm like, now I'm not listening to that.
Adam Curry: Oh, well, I missed the clip. What was the clip? It
was
Dave Jones: Rob asking them. I forgot the whole detail of it.
But it was Rob was talking to their Phil and co host Tom
Webster. And he said they meant he was trying to hear I got it
Unknown: here. Let me see. Okay, did see Apple, you know, embrace
the transcription tag. But I and many in the industry are kind of
like excited about this. And thinking that this is a, you
know, a crack of opportunity for the industry to be telling these
big companies, while you're kind of unexcited, you know,
namespace tags that they will embrace going forward. I do
wonder if this is really kind of an anomaly, because of the
ubiquity and the interest. How
Adam Curry: long does it take before he says YouTube and video
like as another 15 seconds or? Because that's, I watched some
of it and like, ah, let's go back to where we are, again,
even the title said it. The title I think literally said,
you know, we talked about the
Dave Jones: what was the title? Like, okay, okay, Rob. So, so,
you know, podcasting 2.0 tags. They're not, I don't think he
said this. But you know, there's a lot of people, you know,
they're not going to be legitimate until a big company
adopts them. And then when a big company adopts them, oh, it's
just an anomaly. And that's like,
Adam Curry: exactly, I mean, it was 10 years. And everyone said,
no, no, no, no. And you're right, the hosting companies
were apprehensive, or I'd call it an iron. You know, there were
stocks like, well, if Apple doesn't add it, well, how about
we just add 15 apps to the mix? And and that happened? And I
think it's very cool. Now, I'm still I loved your blog post, by
the way. I thought that was great. Oh, thanks. Yeah. Oh,
yes. substack. I thought that was fantastic. Because I'm also
one of the crazy ones, you know, I'd like my modern podcast app.
I like all of those features. It'll be a long time before any
other mainstream app rivals that and I think our apps will go far
beyond that.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, if you if you want, if that's if you
want the crazy listening, full featured listening experience,
if you want, if you want to see what podcasting over RSS is, is
actually capable of of Yeah, like in a real full, extreme
way. You want to podcasting 2.0 my, like, you want one of these
crazy apps? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, because you're not, that's
not what Apple is. So like, the iPhone used to be the crazy
phone, ever, and the BlackBerry was the safe business phone.
Didn't have any weird features. You're right. You know, and,
and, but then they slowly switched. And so now, the way it
is, is the iPhone, as you get as you become mature and get a huge
market share, you become the the stable one, and you become the
one that can do crazy things. And so that's what the iPhone
became over these years is, and in Apple apps, they need to be
and they're going to be slow to add features. And they're going
to be very stable and, and predictable. Because they have
because they have, you know, 2 billion users or you know,
whatever the number is, but so they're not going to ever be the
bleeding edge of feature feature set. And that's what I want. So,
you know, I'm not I'm not gonna switch but but that's okay.
Like, they will add more. Just like I think, I don't think
Spotify cares because I don't think that podcasting. I don't
think they care much about podcasting.
Adam Curry: No, they care about keeping the lights on is what
they care about.
Dave Jones: Exactly the because you see, reading all these
articles about those the Universal Music tick tock thing.
Yeah, happened this week. Yeah,
Adam Curry: that was that was quite interesting. It
Dave Jones: tells you, you see where, you know, Spotify.
Spotify is a player in that whole system. And because they
were paying Spotify is really just a sticker on top of the
music industry. And so the, there's no win win. You're those
guys. They don't care about stuff like this. It's just It's
purely a money play. It's just pure luck. And the thing about
the Apple podcast team is Apple podcasts has never made any
money for Apple. It's it's an idealistic part of the company.
There, they never have made any money or very little or they'll
maybe they break even who knows, but it's not a profit center. It
never has been. It's it's more of a of a throwback to just old
Apple where they had these were they had some parts of the
company that were idealistic. And I think that still exists in
the podcast team. But that's not Spotify, Spotify, if they don't
get if they don't get money, if they don't get, you know $100
million in profit immediately, they do not care about you.
Adam Curry: The I'd like to tick tock Universal Music standoff
because it really is a standoff where I would say from my
analysis and from what I know tick tock breaks music you know,
tick tock is, is where music new music is introduced is where
music goes viral. The term is it's also heated. This is a big
term all the kids are using Dave. I like it well in heated
heated Oh, yeah, that's like, that's the algo so they they
they crank up the algo on something by heating. Oh, it
turns out, they got Yep, turn up the heat got the heat button.
Yeah, yeah, that's what they called the kids called heating.
Oh, they're heating those videos. How can I ever when
Unknown: you can't that's the whole point.
Adam Curry: And so they're like, Hey, we're breaking these
records for you. We don't want to pay as much in the music
industry. Like you're you're screwing the artists man. Like
okay.
Dave Jones: Sure. Okay. I
Adam Curry: thought I did have a clip of that. Let me say that I
have a clip.
Dave Jones: I'm not sure this clip
Adam Curry: I have a clip. unplayed clip, a lot of popular
Unknown: music could be about to vanish from Tik Tok Universal
Music Group holds the rights to artists including Taylor Swift,
bad bunny, Drake and many others. It says a licensing deal
with tick tock has expired, and it will no longer allow its
artists music to be featured on the social media platform.
Universal Music says tick tock is proposing to pay a fraction
of what other social platforms pay tick tock claims the
decision is being fueled by corporate greed. Music will
disappear by the end of the day if a deal is not raised. Oh,
Adam Curry: it's corporate greed. Go figure.
Dave Jones: You're so greedy. Please I think it's hilarious
though. Just I don't I don't ever I've never been on tick
tock only tick tock things so here's what my kids and me
through text messages. In the end it opens like in the browser
or whatever. But But I do think it's hilarious to all of a
sudden see like, some person dancing and there's no music
Adam Curry: but I know a lot about this from the Costello
family who I've been talking to a lot ever since they came on
the scene. And you know, the first question even a lawyer
before lawyer will even because you know it's all lawyers right?
You don't just go to a label now you got to get a lawyer your
lawyer talks to their lawyer it's all lawyer stuff. The first
thing he said well how are your socials? What do you have on
tick tock? You have to have X amount on tick tock, every movie
every movie star even big stars is put into their into their
contract you have to have tick tock you will post on tick tock.
I think Tiktok has the upper hand here. I really I really do.
Dave Jones: I don't know I feel the other way. I feel like I
feel like the music labels have the upper hand because I don't
feel that I feel like tick tock is nothing without without the
music. It's nothing I mean, like their business depends on the
music labels. But at least the music labels have a mute they
have music I mean like that people are gonna continue to
listen to music, but people will just get like tick tock is
worthless without the music. I mean, you can just see because
the only other thing on tick tock that's of any that he gets
any play are sketches from stolen from stand up comedy
routines with a bunch of overlays put on it to try to
fool the algorithm into thinking is not real. I
Adam Curry: see I disagree. That's your scroll hole. I mean,
you get into the like that term. I pick it all from the scroll
holy. I'm glad you like that. No, I mean so I see Tina and of
course I have women on Tik Tok and, and what comes by for her
is these videos of people who do voiceovers for the animals.
Mainly with dogs. This is one guy was really good at us. You
know, there's a lot of there's a lot of that there's a lot that I
mean even if He likes a lot of Jesus stuff. Once you get into
the Jesus hole, whoa, that's all you get there. algos are very
unifying. And they just give you all that stuff. So if you're
into dance dance videos, lots of music. Yeah, you're gonna get
and I'm sure it may be the majority, I don't know. But
there's a lot more on tick tock. It's just whatever, whatever you
whatever you start to feed, the algorithm responds pretty
quickly.
Dave Jones: You're starting to change the history and to change
my mind. Sorry,
Adam Curry: I'm saying it well. So let's just move beyond that
for a moment. Because we are zigging to their zag. The value
from the value versus the value for value music is, is getting
pretty official. There's there's some licensing that's been
that's, that's in a very far reaching us. What is the word
I'm looking for? It's it status is very close to being to being
usable, that
Dave Jones: I need you to explain this to me, because of
the collectively there's been 150,000 words of emails that
have flown by me and have not read any of them.
Adam Curry: So I've kind of I kind of threw a wrench into it
all. Because there was a lot about music, music, music, music
music. And I said, Why are you confusing yourself with music?
Say you have an RSS feed? Yes. There's an mp3 file in in an
item that is in an enclosure? Yes. Okay. How is that different
from a podcast? Well, it's music. So it's, it's a podcast,
you have a podcast that has very short episodes. If once you
start to put that into your brain, and and remove all of the
old school licensing that we've all been accustomed to, and you
talk to any lawyer, the minute you say, oh, it's musical, oh,
this has to happen every day. Oh, this is how we do this? No,
no. And so there's really two, there's three, three pieces. One
is you need new agreements with the people who worked on a song.
And you still have some old school. Traditional names for
those. So writer, composer, producer, the person who owns
the master, who may or may not who might have put up the money,
you know, there's there's certain things that are just
there. But all of the other organizations, these black boxes
that collect money on behalf of artists and take care of you,
including publishing companies. There's the worldwide publishing
industrial complex is very interesting. Once you put that
out of your mind, and say, there's really only two things
we have to look at, that's the that's the agreement of the
people who work on the podcast, I'm just gonna call it a podcast
just to make it very simple. So X amount of people work on the
podcast, you have splits that are developed. And in the case
of this kind of podcast, one or more people may get more of the
split up front, which then has to switch after certain amount
has been achieved. That's called the recoupment. That could work
perfectly for a podcast, hey, I put up a two grand for the
studio, I get the first two grand out.
Dave Jones: No, okay, this is an interesting, okay, that's good.
That's very, very
Adam Curry: understandable. Then the next part is value for value
on apps, and value for value as a remote item. Now, the value
for value on apps. I had I had, I mean, a lot of a lot of
attitude changing that I attempted to do. I said, No one,
no one is putting anything weird into the concept of putting a
podcast up and say, Hey, can you just send me send me some, and
then, you know, the app typically take something. And
that is very transparent to the user. So in my mind, that's kind
of soft. You know, and if there's an app out there, that
all sudden was taking 50% I think the community itself would
say, Hey, what are you doing?
Unknown: I mean, that it would be recognized fast. Yeah, it
would be recognized
Adam Curry: very quickly. There's also a piece that people
have to recognize that it's not all the pieces will never add up
to 100. There's network fees, you know, some case of routing
goes differently, you lose the sad here or there. You know, we
all have to just recognize and realize that it's not 100%
accountable the way it is with fiat money systems. It's not a
big deal. But when you're dealing with five SATs at a
time, it's like hey, Where did 20% go? Because I lost a
Satoshi. So that that has to be figured out, or just has to be
realized. And honestly,
Dave Jones: that's not all that different than, then things go
in the business world anyway, because you get a contract.
Yeah, you sign a contract with somebody and you're like, Okay,
I'm gonna start using your product, and then the invoices
come through, and there's a lot, there's 26 line items with all
these different little, you know, fees and
telecommunications, you know, fee or Obama phone fee. There's,
there's all these things and you're like, Oh, what is all
this, then you have to talk to your account rep and figure out
what all this stuff is. And it's like, it's never it's never a
clean is what I'm saying. Measuring This is not just, it's
not just a, you know, V four v thing. And beyond
Adam Curry: that, there's send backs, buy backs, whatever they
call them, you know, the, the music, I use, when buying with
buying music, this is already kind of going out of vogue. And
when buying music, or if your music is available somewhere and
someone buys you know, 100 CDs, they may send back 50 Hey, I
didn't buy him, you have to buy him back. There's all kinds of
stuff like that. That's, that's the same. By the way, if you use
Amazon, if you sell products in Amazon, there'll be people send
stuff back, you know, so there's all kinds of shenanigans, you're
losing money everywhere. Yeah, now, the most important part to
me, was reinventing Music Radio, by using the remote item tag,
and I was very sharp, sharply focused on calling it a remote
item and not a song. Because the it technically is a remote item,
it could be a clip from someone else's podcast, it can be a, an
insert of an entire episode of someone else's podcast, that
podcast happens to be three minute and 45 seconds long. But
I'm inserting it now. That's where I think is very valid, to
have an ownership license that says, hey, if you're going to
include this, in your podcast is my stuff. So you're making what
I call a derivative work, like you're copying it, you're
playing a piece in your podcast here is so first of all, you
have to respect my splits, which is how the remote item works.
And second of all, I want a minimum amount of your overall
split. I think that's very fair. And it's an it's an it's, it's
an extra tag, we an extra parameter we would need in the
value block, or the remote, whatever the whatever the spec
is, like, if you want to use this value for value in your
podcast, then you have to give me at least 50% of your split.
And so
Dave Jones: let me let me play it back to you. So I can see if
I understand if I'm understanding this correctly.
Some so the there would be a license this Yeah, this license
would say, Hey, here's what here I'm making my main my, let's say
music and making music available value for value. If you're going
to use my music in your show, just
Adam Curry: say just say my content, don't even say music, I
say content,
Dave Jones: I'm going to make my content v v, if you're going to
use my content in the show as a remote item, then I then the
remote percentage needs to be at least
Adam Curry: a minimum, a minimum, you may give me more,
you might give me more, but I need a minimum, I would set mine
at 50%. And so we just played a little bit of the new media
show, if that was actually available as an audio episode,
which it may be, I will go back and I will put the value time
split in there for the amount of time that we played that with
and I would I would just give 100% of the split. I think that
that license for me feels okay in the value for value model
because you're not saying I need this amount of money. We're just
saying please respect my splits first of all, so that means
you're using the remote item tag. And here's a minimum that I
want that you could say there's no minimum you could say I have
to have the 90% whatever it whatever it is. And it's all
it's all ultimately based on the honor system but you know, you
could technically go back and take a look at it. But I think
that for using someone's content unless you have a different
license in there which would be creative commons you know, share
like what you know there's all different licenses this would be
a V for V license for using it as a remote item in your podcast
and would work for any remote item.
Dave Jones: For first of all, respect to Swiss is great t
shirt. Seven ball. This is really good timing because A guy
who's participate, there's a guy that popped up in sent an email
the other day, and he works, he's working somehow, I wasn't
fully clear on this, but he's working somehow with the with
bell, Benjamin Bell, and even cast pod develop open source
group. And he's trying to narrow down the big list of open source
licenses that we linked to in the get in the namespace to be
just a basically a small subset of licenses that are applicable
to podcast, content, podcast delivered content. So you know,
of course, it'd be creative commons and that kind of thing.
And the witch, and I told him, I was like, you know, fantastic,
this is great, please do this. Because, you know, the, the
reason we, we came up with the license tag, and then we added
the link to the possible values, the license of sizes tag can
have, of course, can be a custom license, that's fine. But the
list we linked to was just this common list of open source is a
curated common source, open source list of licenses, right?
But, but that's just because we're not I know, I'm not, we're
developers, not legal experts. So we don't, we're not knowing
what this is. So if we can do if we, if we actually can boil this
down to just a few different license types, one of which is a
is a value for value licensed, that works really well for, for
people who want to go into V for V. I think that is like the
timing can't be better. So
Adam Curry: it's that part? It's, it's, and for me, it's
basically like we do it already in the license tag. Is that at
the channel level? Or is it also at the item level?
Dave Jones: I think that's at the channel, let's look it up,
let's do it was popping in the namespace here,
Adam Curry: in salt, the book of knowledge pop into the
namespace, it would have to be at the while you're looking that
up, it would have to be at the item level. And then as part of
the remote item tag, I would say we need a minimum, a field for
minimum so that the author the owner can say it's either none
or let's say it's by D, if it's not filled in, it's none.
There's no no, no minimum. Optional, you can put in a
minimum split, that needs to be respected by the person
including it, and then the tools can start just respecting that.
So if I'm in the split kit, and I grab a remote item, regardless
of whether it's five minutes or 50 minutes, it could
automatically fill in, here's the minimum, do you want to make
it more? You know, so we'd need an extra an extra option under
the remote item tag.
Dave Jones: So that so that's different. So we can't, we can't
really repurpose the suggested attribute. This would need to be
something new.
Unknown: Yeah. Well, you can't add something to it. No, we can.
Adam Curry: The suggested is suggested I don't think is
different. The suggested tag is for podcast apps, and then the
apps, which for some reason is five. Somehow it's five Apple
code who came up with who came up with five. Now this would be
specifically for the remote item. No, I didn't I don't know.
Does that mean, you will probably have to have a new tag,
which will be like remote item minimum or whatever.
Unknown: Does that make sense?
Adam Curry: So this is this, this? This is why there's two of
us because I got the high level you got to help me figure out
where we put it.
Unknown: Yeah, okay. mumbling Off mic now.
Dave Jones: I'm Dick. I'm noting noting over here.
Adam Curry: Nobody's noticing. Yes. On your yellow legal pad.
Yes, yeah.
Dave Jones: Okay, yeah, the the license tag is at Channel or the
item level. So we're good. We're good to go with that already. No
changes necessary. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. And you can have the
way the license tag works as you can just bet you can specify a a
lit a lesson. I'm sorry. We
Adam Curry: have a point of order from the boardroom. Mike
Newman has a point of personal preference. He says we're deep
into the namespace talk. Why no heating? Yes. You're right. And
now it's time for some hot names. Good point. Good point.
Dave Jones: Apologies. Apologies. Thank you, Mike.
Adam Curry: Yes. Thank you. Apologies to the board. Yes.
Dave Jones: I know what Mike really wants is the The height
and math talk No, no, no, that's off limits. He's in the box,
he's not mad at him,
Adam Curry: he's already had one point of personal preference for
this board
Dave Jones: meeting, it's too hot. The matching gloves, too is
too hot. So the license tag, you can specify by name. And it
comes out of that list, which hopefully, soon we will have a
narrowed down list that makes more sense. Or you can do a
custom license and give a URL with a link to the license text.
So this, you know, you could have somebody who takes the V
for V. License, what a hammer is developed, can take the that
license and say they wanted one change to it. And they can be,
you know, put their version of that. And yeah,
Unknown: yeah,
Dave Jones: I think we're, I think we got tons of flexibility
here. Yes.
Adam Curry: And now there was a call, which I'm not very big on,
because I think that automatically puts you in a
whole different realm. They wanted a when I say they, as a
collective, they I don't want to put this on one person. But
let's just say the group has been talking about a maximum fee
taken by apps. And I don't think that's a, I don't think we
should go down that road.
Dave Jones: I agree. And I'll tell you why. Because the the
apps act as a sort of trying to figure out the right term for
this, that the apps act as a sort of unbiased layer in the
transactions. So you have the the listener who decides how
much value they're going to send. And then you have the
Creator who decides how much value they decide how that gets
allocated, or like, Okay, I would like during this
transaction, for a minimum of this to happen here, I want
these are, these are my splits, this is where the stuff goes.
They're out there doing allocation of whatever the value
is that comes in. But then you have the the apps are in the
middle, they're just taking the transaction and sending it to
where it was specified. They're not once you start dictating to
them, what this you know how much how, like actual amounts,
now, they sort of lose their unbiased status. And it becomes
hard for the listener to trust the app, that the listener hast
in order for this for an order for value for value to work, the
listener has to know that the the, the the party that's doing
the payment on their behalf or the like you when I call the
payment processor or the payment delivery platform. They
themselves don't have an interest either in anything.
Right.
Adam Curry: And their fee is typically on top of what sent
anyway. Right?
Dave Jones: I think as I do, I do not think that's a good idea
at all, because then then you have the apps that are begin
beginning to have they're beginning to be pushed in a
certain direction by the Creator themselves. I don't think that I
agree. I don't think that I think that hurts trust.
Adam Curry: There's one other thing that would come with this
license that I'm in agreement with, it sucks, but I understand
it, it has to be revocable. So you have to be able to say,
Okay, if the owner of this content, for whatever reason
revokes this license, I would actually have to strip that
remote item out of my podcast.
Unknown: Not a happy day. No, that sucks.
Adam Curry: But the if a license can be revoked, and it makes no
sense.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, you can't have some sense of them.
That's, oh, it can't be a one way. Yeah,
Adam Curry: it has to be revocable. Now, will this
happen? I'd say 99% of the time, no, I can see where there may be
certain types of podcasts that could be purchased by a third
party, and that third party would then assume the rights to
monetize it. And then now there's all kinds of language
like you have to give a certain amount of time you have to give
me time codes. You have to you know, there's you can't just say
strip it out everywhere. You can't do that.
Dave Jones: I think I don't think that might not be that big
of a deal. Because you could basically just go through and
all the all the areas in your feed where the where this
particular remote where
Adam Curry: the violation takes place.
Dave Jones: Yeah, you just know it. You know, you just you just
know that, that that out and there's no more.
Adam Curry: We're not just that, but you'd have to take it out of
the actual derivative work out of the recording.
Dave Jones: That's, that's yeah. Yeah, I think you're I don't
that's probably doesn't doesn't sound that much different than
what already happens though, honestly, I mean, if somebody
calls you up and says, Hey, you use this and you get into a
legal exactly argument with them, you're gonna have to take
it out anyway.
Adam Curry: Exactly. So it professionalized is the remote
item. And I think, if you just view it as a remote item, and we
don't get bogged down into music, but it's a remote item, I
think, I think that's a very, a very fair way to go. Because we
can use that for everything. And it doesn't mean that everyone's
going to be getting splits on everything. And most people
stuff isn't interesting enough to include in another podcast,
but I'll put my zero or, you know, whatever, up to you. And
then if someone wants to, like Kyron, you know, he throws 20%
If if he uses a P, whatever, I mean, it's that nothing has to
change as my point only for people who feel that they have
something so valuable, that they want a minimum. And I'll and
they want a license, and it's their stuff. So, you know, I
think they have every right, you know, that I'll stay away from
fair use for a moment, because Fair Use is very, very
complicated, and no one wants to litigate that. But I know a lot
about it. But obviously Bookstagram ball, the remote
items are included in that is not fair use, you know, I'm
using someone stuff and I'm, I'm literally commercializing it,
Dave Jones: right. So, I think you're fair use, your fair use
comes into play where you have me, technically you don't have
to, you would not have to do a split or a remote item for a
clip. If it would fall under fair use, you would do it
because you're wanting to be a nice person. Exactly. So this is
like beyond music. And, and, like, I think that the thing
with music and why it's so was so precious there is because
it's a full work. I mean, you're playing a full work. And you're
and it's obviously there's you know, there's there's history
there. But you know, with the clip, it's just like, well, you
know, I'm gonna give you can, I guess you could, you know, you
you wouldn't, you could go in there and say, Okay, I'm going
to, I'm going to vie for V license all of my podcast
episodes so that if anybody ever gets a clip, I have to get a
remote item. It's not really going to work that way. I mean,
because that doesn't supersede fair use. So you got you that's
not really gonna work, but but for, for music, or something
like that, or an audio book or things like that. Yeah, I mean,
like, you really almost do need that in place. And I can think
like, you know, ask him Steve had a good, had a good point. I
mean, you can't really revoke a license for something that's
already been it's already an event that happened in the past.
I mean, with no going back. Go Well, a podcast live podcast
lives
Adam Curry: forever. You can podcast lives forever. So it's
not like it's in the past. It's it's now every day of the week.
Yeah, I mean, it's okay, unfortunately, is very similar
to tic tock and Universal Music. Yeah, yes, exactly the same
thing. Hey, we don't have an agreement. We have a
disagreement. There's people dancing with no music. If we're
if we want to make the podcast formerly known as music possible
in value for value, I think we have to relent on that. I'm not
happy about it. Because it's just a pain in the butt. But it
is what it is. Well,
Dave Jones: the thing I don't know that it says much of a pain
will there be niggles? Yes, but I'm not sure that this it's as
much of a pain as it may sound like because if you're going
into V for V, your options are you make something or you make
nothing right? Well,
Adam Curry: this is let's just beat let's just call a spade a
spade. This is when someone is V for V and then gets picked up
and basically sells their stuff. Yes, right. And so it does
change of ownership. And there's money involved and I would be
very happy for people Oh, that's I'm so happy for you see on the
next project, see you when you get dropped
Unknown: enough I a year from now, I actually
Adam Curry: think that very few artists who are having success
in V for V i I don't know if many would take the big
mainstream contract if it was about music. I really don't
think so. I mean, in a way Rogan did this Rogan sold his entire
catalogue to Spotify. He negotiated 100 episodes he could
keep
Unknown: public Publix. Okay, I know that because he was very
open about that.
Adam Curry: And all the rest had to be gone. And so because they
bought his entire catalogue, it was really a licensing deal. And
so all of his stuff left podcasting, except for 100
episodes, which I think he only kept on YouTube, maybe I don't
know what he did with them. But he kept 100. It was a included
podcast, he didn't want any out there anymore. He want he wanted
them gone, because he didn't like the guest or something like
that. So it's very, it's very simple. It will happen. But it
won't happen very often.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I agree. I agree. And that, you know, if
Marina ask, gets, you know, she, I don't know her situation. But
if she was, she's now the full owner of all her stuff. And she
sells it and gets picked up by a label and wants to pull that off
V for V. She's, she's got the right to do that. Yeah, she's
got the right to do that now, without a license. I mean, she
could she could she could do this right? And and just take it
right off exactly. But then send you a message and say, Hey, can
you take this out of your show? And you'd have to Yeah, this
Adam Curry: is just a way to solidify that. And I think if we
put the minimum, the minimum split value in into the spec
somewhere. And and the license tag is already, you know, it can
already we can add that it's easy, because the tag already
exists is just the new license that comes out. And I think we
should, it should be like the V for V license or something. So
if someone puts in a derivative of the V four v license with
some different parameters, that has to be apparent.
Dave Jones: But I still like it. Yeah, yeah. See? Yeah, but I
think I think, like a GPL or whatever, exactly.
Adam Curry: I think I think this will kind of flesh out. I'm not
too worried. I don't also we don't have to get all messed up
about it. Because this, this will work out. We I mean, we
really, believe me, the not a single person that said, Boy,
this really sucks. I get no Satoshis everyone is positive.
Everyone's positive because they haven't gotten any they've been
so screwed. This is like, just everything has been positive
about this. Now, along with that. I'm very proud of Julian
Jim Costello, who have launched phantom power music.io. They
have, you should take a look at this website. They have launched
a company to onboard artists into value for value.
Dave Jones: Ooh, this is pretty so nice website. Yeah.
Adam Curry: And they're doing education. And you know,
they're, I think they've partnered with RSS blue.com for
hosting. And I mean, they've really, I think they've really
done a very thought a long and they've been thinking about they
have all the experience honestly. They know it they
understand they understand how all this stuff works. Look. Oh,
look, I didn't notice that they have all look at all the apps.
They have all the apps there. Receive boost today. Grab an app
you can zap No. Okay, well, if you have to put this app in
there and I understand I understand the rhyming but okay.
Oh, look, they got the music shows down there as well. So
they're really promoting the whole thing. And it was it was
kind of cute. They're like, Please don't hate us for because
they asked $10 a month. This is please don't hate us for for
asking for Fiat. So you get inside off by people. It's okay.
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's okay. big of a deal. Yeah,
Adam Curry: I think they do is $10 a month they set you up,
they help you they give you all the education. It's probably
more in a group setting. I think they're gonna do like big deal
calls and stuff. And then 5% of your SATs. 5% split. As you say
fair, yeah. And they help you manage everything. I mean, I'm
happy because now I can say to artists go instead of me
explaining go here. Go talk to these people. They
Dave Jones: have Marina Oscar is one of their or they do one of
their
Adam Curry: orders. Do you have their art get it out? They have
Abby Mendler here Ainsley Costello Amber Sweeney. Jack and
Mr. Mr. JESSICA Well, I like these I like these. I want to
trust it. I happen to pick the trusted for our song today.
Dave Jones: Oh, it gets the you know what wait. Wave Lake has
really stepped they stepped up to I mean, they have they have
they've got two new podcasts that are that they're doing now
mixtape and wave or in there? They interviewed your buddy.
Yeah,
Adam Curry: Cody what? That was great. I was like, Oh, this is
an I didn't know that. FM radio was FM radio. But that was
Michael.
Unknown: That's his band Finn radio. Oh, no, no,
Adam Curry: not FM radio, was it? No, no, the pirate radio
that's on pirate radio.
Dave Jones: Yeah, they they've done a lot. And I want to make
sure because people in podcasting took one over, given
them heat before and we have to, but they stepped up, they fixed
they have really changed their feeds their auto billing. I
think right now the auto says, Oh, he had their auto
submitting. They're doing value time splits. They've got their
feeds have channel level value blocks now. Like they're they've
they've fully adapted to the for the podcasting based music. And
I mean, like they deserve all the credit in the world for
chain for making. Absolutely, absolutely.
Adam Curry: We needed we needed. We needed them to do that we
needed. We needed him to do that. We really did. And I love
it. And I'm I'm sure they still have a focus on noster
somewhere. But when I listen to their shows, it's getting there.
It really is. Yeah.
Dave Jones: It's beautiful. I think they deserve they deserve
some credit. They deserve the kudos. Yeah, for sure. For sure.
Unknown: So that's happening. Yeah.
Dave Jones: This I want to talk a little bit about what Mitch
posted? Yes. With, you know, just burnout. Because he did
Adam Curry: he actually use the burnout term? Because I mean, I
read it as burnout. I'm like, I you and I texted I don't even
know what to say. I mean, I feel horrible about this. I mean,
what can I do? You know, I can send him money. But that's not
gonna that's not a salary. You know, what do we do? What how? I
mean, this is hard. This is hard stuff.
Dave Jones: I think. So. Let me just see if I can pull this post
up real quick, make sure we accurately represent what he
said, because I think he did say that he was burned out. See, so
I've been off the grid. So long folks have been busy with
combination and making money. So I don't have to get back to the
day job to be frank pa versus pretty overwhelming to keep up
with keeps more and it gets more overwhelming with each day, I'll
let things fall behind. I've been working on pod verse for 10
years now. And absolutely love. He said, I didn't even know how
to code when I started. And absolutely love what we've
accomplished. But I've always had hoped we would have would
have a thriving open source community by now. I don't know
what course of action can convert pod verse from being
this 10 hour a day labor of love for me into a reasonably managed
business with adequate resources. The truth is, as pod
verse has grown more popular, is become more difficult to keep up
with. We have many generous supporters, but the money we
make is far from being able to pay someone a full time salary.
And then he says they don't want to accept VC money focusing on
getting caught up now. So, you know, anytime he talks about
unless there were an increase in steady open source contributors,
I can't see I can keep up with the rate of progress and
responsiveness. People are used to for sure. Yeah. So I just
want to talk a little bit about that. Because, I mean, I've been
involved in open source projects. So that's happened. So
I can hear that. I'm
Adam Curry: sorry. I didn't mean to do that to you.
Dave Jones: It sounds like I thought that was you. It was
Adam Curry: me. It was me. W no idea why that why that worked
that way. Okay. Yeah.
Dave Jones: But I've been involved in PUC in open source
projects for more than a decade. And this one's going on three
years. And I've had times when Absolutely. The I'm just gonna
use the term burnout. I don't think it's fair. I think it's
just a general term. I don't think it's unfair to Mitch Yeah.
To say burnout because we all we all we all get there. And, you
know, Martin Martin from pot France, he felt he didn't get
burned out, as well. And so, you know, I would I would want to
say a couple of things here is managing an open source project
is primarily not about the the technology, tap it, it's about
relationships. It's about managing relationships. There's
this quote from Charlotte Mason. She's, like our kids go to a
Charlotte Mason school. She was an educator from the 1800s. But
she has this, this phrase that she says education is the
science of relationships. I think that's what open source
open source is all about the science of managing
relationships. Right? And so you like you? I kind of I kind of
you get bogged down my I never feel burned out. And I think
part of the reason is because I've learned to adapt to
basically like an it's, it's just it's fine mentality. It's
fine, it's fine. It's like that little guy with the with the
with the comic with holding the coffee and everything's on fire,
you know, it's fine.
Adam Curry: Burn, everyone's burning up. All right, in
Dave Jones: there's a few different there's a in it all
comes down to relationships. So you could put you could you
could look at it like this if you want to like say like some I
don't know, rules are sort of like essence concepts. It's
fine. Not to respond to people. That's sort of like, the first
thing in this in it when it comes to managing open source
is, you know, you had to pick one like, basically pick one
public communication channel. These are just the things that
I've done. Pick one public communication channel, pick one
private communication channel for most people, that's email.
And just stick with that. Don't get sucked into 15 different
communication channels with where your own telegram matrix
GitHub, Mastodon email, text message signal team, Slack, and
it will, it will drive you insane. You can't you'll never
rest. It's awful. This is like, this is like the Marco Arment
strategy. Just ignore people.
Adam Curry: Pretty successful with that strategy? Right?
Dave Jones: Yeah. And I mean, he would be honest with you and
say, yeah, it, you He, He will not answer your emails 99% of
the time. But it's for is because if you get sucked into
that, and you let yourself become burdened by the
responsibility of responding to everybody, yeah, you will burn
yourself out your your your fuse will go out fast.
Adam Curry: By the way, this goes even for podcasters. Sure,
I mean, it's the same thing. I can't respond to everybody. I
certainly can't, I wind up, wind up doing my email, I wind up
praying for a lot of people, no response, but I prayed for you.
It's really nothing else you can do sometimes.
Dave Jones: I silenced almost all of my GitHub repo
notifications, I don't get notifications from the namespace
anymore. People post things there and I don't even know.
And, and I go in when when I choose to engage with namespace,
I go and I check out what's there. Notification fatigue will
kill you. Yeah. It will literally stress you out. If
somebody posts something on a repository and it takes you like
a month before you even see it. Guess what? As far as what it
is, it's fine. Nobody died. Nobody got sick. It's fine. You
know, people will eventually learn your communication
cadence. Amen? And what to expect from communicating with
you. It's like, I don't you know, Dave Winer used to be you
know, he's he wrote this long thing about if you're going to
work with me, here's what you need to know about. The way I
Adam Curry: work. I remember Yes. Oh, yes, I remember these
very well.
Dave Jones: It's like, No, I've got three modes. I've got um,
heads down working mode, I've got I'm communicating mode, and
I forget all the details. Yeah. But like he published his like,
cadence of how he, how you could expect to work with him. I don't
think you have to do that. I don't think you have to publish
that. I think people just learn that people learn that, oh,
after they communicate with you a few times, they learned that
sometimes you're just not going to respond for perhaps a month.
And they just know that you're there and you will eventually
you get back to them and they know that that everything's
fine. Right? And so it's it's not it's not something you have
to get super detailed about. But it's all you know, I guess the
second part is it's also fine. In this is big and open source
too. It's also fine if people are not nice to you. Because
people are gonna are going to be not nice to you. This is true
with all open source. People say terrible things. People get
selfish. It's going to happen. And you have to know upfront you
have to cultivate thick skin. People are gonna say mean stuff.
Adam Curry: I can't it's almost like being a podcaster people
will say the most horrible things.
Unknown: You don't know what you're doing the D You should
have said why didn't you do that? How can I
Adam Curry: camp Oh, my head. I can't believe you missed that.
And I see it with with apps like this sucks this apps no good.
Get you know, what is my favorite? Like, this is a basic
functionality.
Dave Jones: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Why didn't knew dot dot dot? You
know that anything that starts with I can't believe.dot.or What
Why did you Why didn't you do it this way dot dot dot? Yeah, very
typical. People are gonna leave you one star reviews. Yep. It's
gonna happen, you know, people are gonna, they're going to, you
know, smear essentially smear your product. They're gonna
criticize almost every decision that you make, at some point.
They're gonna send you hate mail. We've gotten tons of hate
mail, about everything about the show about the project. Ever
every time you know, every, every time you allow yourself to
get angry. You turn your burnout meter up another notch. Yeah. If
somebody's a jerk, lock the issue, or close it, if they keep
being a jerk, block them or mute them, and then go eat some ice
cream and have a good day. And that's, it's really all about
that. So this is this is fresh in my mind, because somebody
said something recently to me, and it gets in a GitHub issue.
Saying that they didn't want they did not want to listen to
the show, in order to keep up with the project. And that I
should be that I should be publishing minutes of this of
the board meeting each week. Oh, well, why you don't want to
listen to the show? Oh,
Adam Curry: oh, I see. Well, we have a transcript. Right.
Dave Jones: And, you know, my, my response to that was, stop
telling me what I'm supposed to do with my time.
Adam Curry: Yeah, reclaiming Reclaiming my time.
Dave Jones: I'm not playing I'm not playing this game. This is
not a year, this is no longer a feature request. This is now a
demand. And I reject your demands go away. Yeah. And so
this, this is this is how you deal with that sort of stuff.
And the, I guess the hardest part is the last part is is if
the servers go down, it's still fine. It's okay. stuff does go
down. It's gonna happen. And it's really It's okay. When
somebody tells you, the servers are down, and you feel that that
panic in your stomach, go go get a cup of coffee. Take a 10
minute walk before you ever open up an SSH terminal. Just go
chill out. It's fine. Life will go on. Everybody's okay. Yeah,
everybody's servers go down. Sometimes. It's not a reflection
on you. If people get mad about it or mean about it, and that,
you know, it's not it's not a big deal. It's all fine. I mean,
server team, Microsoft Teams was down for 10 hours the other day
globally.
Adam Curry: Oh, God. I can only imagine the calls that came in
that that support team. Yeah,
Dave Jones: people were freaking out and losing their mind. But
you know what, it's fine. There's today they didn't lose a
bet you they did not lose a single customer. In his in his
okay. And this is an open source project. Remember, the more
users you have the more demands at our own placed on your
system. So if you lose some customers, it's actually better
for you. You're in a better position than the worst. It's a
plus. Yeah, it's a plus a bonus. Win. Okay, I got one. Okay.
Adam Curry: What can I say? Can I say one thing? Hold on.
There's also with open source projects. We just had this
ourselves recently. For three years, we have been told you got
to have a marketing website. You got to do this. You got to do
that. And we're like, No, hey, Phoebe. Yeah. So you can write
the marketing website BB. And finally, it dawned on Daniel J
and I think he's teamed up with with James Cridland well Oh,
we'll do the marketing site but she thank you yeah, it's like so
weird. This is an open source project every single bit of it
as like yes, yes, yes. Yes, please do I want 10 of them in
different languages.
Dave Jones: That fits perfectly with what I was about to say I
thought I was done but I actually have one more point and
this is this is this exact point. When people to ask you
when people ask you to do something. You asked them to do
it instead? Yeah. Why don't you do it? Yeah, like a her longtime
I heard a long time ago heard a sermon by this pastor and he was
saying, He said, Every time somebody said, when I first got
here to this church, people would come up and say, Hey,
Pastor, I really think we need a ministry that does so and so and
so and so who reaching out to these, this people group or
whatever, right? And he said, that sounds like a great idea.
Let me know when it's up and running. And he said, this funny
thing is, like, most of the time, it just never, you know,
they never did it. And that's, that's the thing is like when
somebody says, Hey, can you add this feature to your product?
That most of the time the answer should be? Here's the link to
the GitHub repo. That sounds like a great idea. Yeah. When
you when you get it done, send me the pull request, and I'll
review it and merge it. That sounds great. Exactly. And 99%
of the time, they won't do it. But the 1% of the time, they
actually do it. You get somebody like an Alex gates, like an Eric
PP. You know, like a CSB like a Stephen crater, like a Nathan
Gath. Right. I mean, the let you get people that step up like
Daniel J. Lewis, you get people who step up and do and do
awesome stuff. In nine dead, the other 99 people that didn't want
to do this stuff, but never participated. You don't have to
let those people bother you. Right.
Adam Curry: So on the heels of this, I immediately have to ask
everybody to straighten out their to V records right away. I
need you to put the right information in please.
Dave Jones: Oh, is this a is this a? Is this a huge problem
we're dealing with?
Adam Curry: Yeah, it is kind of a big problem. Okay, customer
Matic sometimes doesn't send the name of the podcast or the name
of the song or it only sends the name of the song. It's a remote
item stuff. It's remote item stuff. I would I would
respectfully request if if you happen to be rooting around UTL
V records code. Could you send along podcast name, Episode
name, if there's a remote item remote item name. That would be
really, really awesome. You can you can even do just do the
GUID. You can do the good What are you laughing about? TLB is
not hot. Yeah. You can even do the GUID because how the pad
will resolve that. And if and if you have extra time just
happened to be rooting around. The reply is really fun. But I
can only reply to people using cast thematic and curio caster
is really fun. My listeners love it. They really love it. When I
send them when I pay. You know what happens? They'll send me a
boost back. It's crazy. Now I've got email where they're paying
me is great.
Dave Jones: Now not every pap is jumping in with TVs are a mess.
Everybody that starts getting into the to Wii game, and
they're always like, Oh, this is a shutter down your spine. But
it works. It somehow works. Well. He has
Adam Curry: a link which I'll put in the show notes, which I
guess is that? Oh, yeah. Okay. So yeah, this is a this is a
good Blip 10 to V record breakdown that Spurlock did this
is very this is very good people. This is very good. I'll
put that in there. So we can all take a look at it. apps to the
breakdown. That's good. I mean, it I mean, just when you have a
moment, just have a moment to take look at it. Really
appreciate that. Because from
Dave Jones: Yeah, I just don't want people to burn out. And,
and Mitch has been doing this for a long time to you know, 10
years on pod verse. That's a long time and I don't you know,
I don't blame him. He, you know, he's, he's got other things to
think about in his life, but and he's, it's not like pod versus
shutting down there. They're just gonna slow down, they don't
have the bandwidth anymore to add features and stuff. Which
is, you know, which is fine, and I want to get him back on the
show, it'd be a good thing to talk it over with him. But it's
just, you know, I just, you know, it I just don't want
people to burn out. And if you if you pace yourself and you
don't let people of open source will wreck you if you let
Adam Curry: it Yes, it will suck your soul. It
Dave Jones: will. But you there are ways where you basically
don't have to let it do that.
Adam Curry: And if I may compliment you on how
wonderfully you have managed this orchestra of nutjobs
because that's what we have. We have no we have an orchestra and
there's people with a you know with a ukulele and the guy
playing spoons and someone else has a washboard and there's a
guy who has a huge drum kit and and you this is why you're the
pod sage you have a very beautiful demeanor about
managing that you respond in just always the right way. If it
were me, this would have blown up within three months. Yes,
although I have I have gotten better in If there's things that
have happened to me in the past three years that have made me
better, but you have you really you have been managing. You have
been managing this group, mainly, I'd say, the the GitHub
and just the how things are, are put in, I just nothing but props
for you, brother, nothing but props for you.
Dave Jones: Thanks. It's, it's if you let it, if you let it own
you, it will, it will, you will get out, you will burn out fast.
And if you if you keep it as if you, if you keep it as fun, keep
it as a as a thing that's that's that you do that brings you
enjoyment, and not as trying to make it exactly. If you see it
as your job and you think everything depends on that
project. You're not going to last it's gonna go so fast.
Yeah, especially when you start getting some users. That's when
things actually are not prepared for that, then the more users
you have, the more it will hurt. I've always
Adam Curry: said, you know, every I've had many companies
and always said we would have a great company if we just didn't
have any customers.
Dave Jones: So true. Everybody. I cannot tell you how many times
I've heard somebody say, yeah, man, you know, I bet you bet
you'd be great if you had so and so as a customer using the API.
And I'm like, no,
Adam Curry: no, no. But that's the same with podcasting. The
minute you get a whole bunch of people listening, everyone has
an opinion. Nobody knows how easy you make it look. Now, it's
like, Hey, you just you just talking to a microphone for
three hours twice a week? What is it, just give me a break.
Now, it's really the same with any anything with other people.
It's pure people, understanding of people and how people are
it's just that's what it is.
Dave Jones: You know, podcasts are that's it's funny. Podcasts
are open source. You know, Alex said something the other day
that seemed like fun that he was saying. I think it was a little
bit of a just a passing comment that he threw in. But it made me
think about the similarities between open source and and
podcasting. Because podcasts are sort of like the best ones
anyway. The ones like you do, or they're they are open source
projects in and of themselves. That yeah, he's, it's, I think
he said something about the value for value. I can't
remember his comment. But the value I think value for value
maybe only works fully. When when the cut when the when the
listener or the consumer, whatever you want to call them
depend on what is when the consumer helps build the
product.
Adam Curry: Yes, yes. You know, when you're involved in it's a
two way street. It's my listeners are called producers
for this very reason. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah,
exactly. Yeah. You're involved you have you have a stake,
you're a stakeholder in the product. This is not like radio,
this is where I think radio really is very different. It has
other advantages, like locality, and you know, immediacy, but the
feedback loop, which is exactly how it where value for value
fits in, you have a feedback loop, you have to ask you have
to thank you know, you have to reply basically all of that as a
part of it, whether you're whether you're doing value for
value for you know, for monetary reasons or not, it always works
better if it's, if it's a round robin, it just that's how you
can make it work for yourself. Rogan doesn't have to do that.
He's a different type of show. But for every other podcast I've
been involved in, it's it's incredibly important. Yeah,
Dave Jones: this this matches up because yeah, Foundation says I
firmly believe the attention based economy began begin with
one way media where participants lost the ability to openly and
freely conduct discourse with relevant communities. It's like
the one way media thing because when your open source project
becomes one way, when it's all about what you can give, right?
It doesn't work anymore. It's not a value for it's not value
for value. It's not a value exchange. Now it's just I need
something Give it to me. Now. Yeah, exactly. But when with
this, the puck has to promote projects is IT project is always
value for value. And you have, you know, in that includes apple
coming in last week, they they built they built a feature and
then they asked for help. We put it on the GitHub, people
responded. It's akin, it is a give and take, yeah, you know,
your cause we give, they take they give we take it's
constantly back and forth. I just think that The overlap
between value for value podcasting and open source
projects is probably a lot bigger than we think it is. I
agree. They just look different on the outside, you know.
Adam Curry: I just jotted something down about value for
value. I just want people know that a big part of how it works
for me. We're in podcasting, then. But it could also work for
apps I don't know is we do a newsletter before every single
podcast except for this one funny enough. And that
newsletter is an ask. It's an asked to remember to listen,
remember to support us. And it's responsible for 40% of the value
we receive. Just want people to realize that doesn't it's yes,
you have to ask for it in your podcast. That's typically where
we thank people in the podcast. But to ask is, it's not
necessarily just in the podcast. I just wrote that down or
something I want to remind everybody of and to hosting
companies provide email capabilities, email lists, I
mean, all this AI talk like with respect, it's great that your AI
can translate you know, your podcast into German with a
German voice notice you never get a German to English podcast
because we all know that if we heard it, we'd be like, this
sucks.
Dave Jones: It probably sucks just as much. Yes. Yes,
Adam Curry: exactly. But you know, so how about where are the
AI discovery tools we now have transcripts for every podcast
Why can't I say hey AI go find me apart? Why is it only for the
creation side I know this makes no sense to me input a few
parameters get me Get me something that'll be interest me
based upon the transcripts
Unknown: Yeah, yeah kind of stuff. Wow the point Yeah,
should we play song
Dave Jones: I would love to hear so yeah. Okay, so
Adam Curry: this is this is the trusted that we were just
talking about which apparently is part of phantom power
music.io is called Millennium it's a snappy tune from some
good luck in young men tech good guys
Unknown: give coming around a one no one's cry just cry with
Jesus one day
right guys all right
never want to see you tonight
All right. So we're not enough
Adam Curry: To the trusted Millennium podcasting 2.0 They
are from sam se hometown in the UK. Oh really? Yes. So they must
be rich. Just just just in case they aren't pleased. Rewind if
you didn't and boosts them boost those boys boost them make them
more rich. Yeah. I'm pretty sure they're not rich.
Unknown: That's a good tune in that cool though. Yeah,
Adam Curry: that's kind of like, old. What is it reminding of? In
excess the
Unknown: little bit? I don't know. This is cool. I like it.
It's
Dave Jones: got the you can hear the egg shaker. Exactly.
Adam Curry: I looked at the nostril wallet Connect. Yeah.
Unknown: I don't get it.
Adam Curry: They put, it seems like there's just a third. Is
it? Is it just me or is it just another API to to like a service
in the middle? Am I missing something?
Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, no, I don't think I don't think you're
missing anything. It's like me it just connects so that you can
connect to your own node to
Unknown: Okay, yeah,
Dave Jones: it's it's not No, it's not even worth it.
Adam Curry: It's not worth it long leave Keisha and we love
our key. Send a few sand rocks. Yes.
Dave Jones: So lightning on the lightning front with l&d. 18 My
understanding is this is when they start which they're working
on now. This is when they start building in bolt. 12 Oh, really
now? Yeah, bolt. Well, they're gonna do it in stages, I believe
is my understanding. Based on on the we
Adam Curry: always we always thought we'd live to see the day
that bolt 2012 came to light.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think taproot through them much more
curveball. I'm talking about lightning labs and l&d. I think
taproot through them a lot of curveballs. So when they went to
tapri channels, what I understand and also what threw
them curveballs is the fees from the mempool got so high that
these that the Yeah, dozen or so bugs that were causing force
close force closing of channels are
Adam Curry: making everybody more everyone was becoming poor.
Dave Jones: They had to stop and say, Okay, let's let's go back
and actually fix this. So like a lot of the stuff that's been
going on the last really three months on the lightning on the
l&d developer mailing list has been all about. That has been
all about trying to solve these force close issues, and a lot of
it has got to do with just things getting channel. Things
internal to Elling to l&d Getting out of sync. Yeah. And
then l&d gets into a state where it it's basically it's afraid of
doing something wrong. And so it just forced closes the channel,
right, and thinking, Okay, well, we need to get this back in
order. And they've, they've really fixed a lot of that
stuff. To my understanding, there's still a few things that
can cause it to happen. But most of the egregious ones I think,
have been fixed. So I think in in my understanding is in 18,
we're gonna they're gonna start on Bolt 12 If we can ever get to
a stable Bolt 12 implementation. Honestly, life life changes to
be better life changes, it really will hate you because
then you have open invoices, and you don't have to worry. The key
sin was a hack from the beginning. It's a beautiful
hack, but it is high. Yeah, just
Adam Curry: open invoice it just here's one invoice reuse as
often as you want for whatever you want. Yeah, which seems so
logical. Yeah. Like, why would you restrict the amount of money
you can receive? please do send me money.
Dave Jones: Yeah, the, the invoice thing is, is the invoice
thing always it never made a whole lot of sense. Because it
just means I can't make I can't send you money into you. Like I
can go to the bank and deposit money in your account. Yeah,
yeah. They'll let me do that all day. I don't have to have your
permission.
Adam Curry: You can send a Venmo to somebody just having their
address. Boom, it's done. Yeah,
Dave Jones: and nothing else works where I have to allow you
to give me money for now.
Adam Curry: Yeah, that's one of the big confusing parts for
people. Quite honestly, when they're like, wait, I have to
fill up my wallet. I have to create an invoice and then I
have to copy that invoice and then pay this weird.
Dave Jones: So there's this funny this is funny story about
my uncle. He's passed away now. He's just he was Is this clever
guy? And he's like country clever, you know, like, he lives
up, lived up North Alabama and middle of nowhere. So he a sold
this guy, something I forgot what it was is like a car or
something. They got paid him, paid him for it. Maybe it's gone
or something sold in, he paid him for a game, he wrote a
check. So he goes to the gas bank to cash this check. And
they say the tellers like I'm sorry, he doesn't have enough
funds. We can't get in his account. We can't cash the
check. So those checks, like minimum 100 bucks or something.
Yeah. And he said, Well, how much does he have in his
account? She's like, Well, I'm sorry, I guess private? I can't
tell you that much. I can't tell you that information. So can I
put money in his account? And he was like, he was like, Well, let
me put $10 in there. So he put $10 in there. And she was like,
she's like, No, and he's like, so he kept putting five and five
bucks in there until the end. They just got it all out. That's
Adam Curry: funny. Yeah. That's I wonder if you clever. Yeah. I
wonder if because the country clever US and other guests.
Another good show titled Dave Jones. I like that one. Country
clever. That's a good one. Brother, should we thank some
people.
Dave Jones: Oh, let's do it. Yeah,
Adam Curry: let me let me see we we got a couple of live booths.
Not much. Let me see. We got Oh, let's see. 1234 From November
for Victor X ray. Who says thank you for your coding. Oh, that's
a new one. Thank you feel you're welcome. Short Row of ducks.
Martin Linda's code. He's back. Haven't heard from him from a
while. two to two. I have a podcast called pen meets paper
in Swedish and English but I want to check remarkable gadget.
Yes. Oh, listen to this podcast now that I've already bought
one. Hopefully I bought the right thing. Joe Martin Hello,
Joe Martin. He's listening in from Rainy England finally free
on a Friday night. 2100 SATs Thank you, brother. No gig. No
gig on a Friday night. Joe Martin. You know the I think the
premiere the first wallet switch we we performed on this show was
Joe Martin show. Joe Martin
Unknown: saw high gravity. That's right.
Adam Curry: There's Martin Linden. koge Linda's cog again
1111 row of sticks. I wanted to top of my wallet but found out
that Alby is doing maintenance regarding the credit card
option. I'm sorry to hear that. Salty Crayon 2222. How do you
board room sorry for the email Adam didn't realize it was time
for hot namespace day go podcasting. He was emailing me
when I'm trying to help them out. I had I did my podcast with
Jimmy V.
Unknown: About the loss of compressions all this Yes. You
Adam Curry: know, it turned out really good. It was it was you
know, we didn't really resolve much. But it was it was a fun
conversation. We both had our product this guy is a real force
to be reckoned with. And he really is very excited about
value for value and he wants to onboard a whole bunch of his by
his onboarding a whole bunch of his buddies and it was actually
turned out to be a really nice conversation. We got a lot of
fun
Dave Jones: did it go like this? You're wrecking my music and
you're like no I'm not Yeah, that would be
Adam Curry: the short version. Okay. I think he was surprised
that I showed up and he was like I can't believe so what do you
mean that we had an agreement this is a time here I am via so
anyway he's a good guy he's he's gonna be very important in in
the in the value verse and I have been trying to trying to
work on make it the problem is his songs sound different than
someone else's songs you know his volume mastering a different
someone else. It's all very different. So there's somewhere
you have to have a kind of a middle of so that it all sounds
good enough. That's just that's just the way it is. So I think
we had a good understanding.
Unknown: So his last name is v. So yes, V.
Adam Curry: What more do you need 45,678 from Dred Scott pre
show boost boost he says boost Thank you. Thank you and let me
see. Yeah, so this is see this is an example this is fountain
Oh, no, I'm sorry. It looks like I was put into a Jimmy V put me
in his value block. I'll put us in the value block. There you
go. Oh, that was from the interview. Oh, cool. I'll read
this then. 1000 SATs from salty crayon to outside in with Jimmy
V episode to appreciate the feedback. Adam and Jimmy are
still tweaking this this consulta crayon. His levels,
shot to crayons, great heat. plays everything uncompressed
yeah that's not the kind of show I want to make I have a little
more high energy and so he asked for some feedback so I'm helping
him with that Cameron also 3333 Thanks Adam for being on the
show extra sets for mentioning he likes I love all the Canadian
rockers I'm telling you the all these guys are coming in the
coming into the remember helix
Dave Jones: helix No Give me they were like
Adam Curry: like helix was heavy man helix I think I played him
on on headbangers ball may say why is why is this? Is this what
is going on here to tube? We're both going Yeah, I can't get to
you. Oh I see what's going on.
Unknown: You find us there
let me see you too. Oh
Dave Jones: Hair Metal
Unknown: yeah massive massive Hair Metal.
Dave Jones: Yeah, rock you those that
Adam Curry: might have had minor sounds like the one that I would
have played. Let me see What song did you play on headbangers
ball? That was probably RockYou Yes indeed. Here it is. What is
this heavy metal love? What was that? I see how old is this?
BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP that bad bad guy bad guy bad. I
think that from Scandinavia to
Unknown: Yeah baby 93 Nice farm finance
Adam Curry: and I heard one more boost come in. We'll just check
that real quick. Hard Hat says like boosting Why 12,345 Thank
you hard fat. DAVE What you got on the on the papers in the
booster grams.
Dave Jones: Oh, I got a nice Pay Pal from the boys and girls Ed
blueberry down. Hello Bluebird. And they sent us $300 Oh, let
Unknown: me get shot Carlo blades on am Paula key brothers.
Adam Curry: Very nice. Let's
Dave Jones: go in their messages go podcasting from the blueberry
podcasting team.
Adam Curry: Go buy gasoline. Just got 33,333 from Darren Oh,
he says can never use too much compression to get the voice
scope podcasting. Darren knows it's there. Yes, it.
Dave Jones: That would be a comment from him. Yes. Thank
you, blueberry. Appreciate that. Thank you so much. Let's see we
got Oh, we got $55 from Jorge Hernandez. Oh, it's thanks for
creating the opportunity to enhance our show. I sent a
private note via email. Not sure if they're being filtered out.
Nope. We got it. I got your note.
Adam Curry: Yes. Thank you very much. Very nice note, Jorge and
Savannah. I think that is from both of them.
Dave Jones: Yeah, they're the plug to pleb I think is the Oh,
Unknown: okay. But we appreciate. We appreciate that.
Dave Jones: Thank you, Jorge. Guess Mr. Graham's see. We got
see salty crayon. Sin is 2222. This is how the boardroom from
the northeast corner of Texas Hill Country. The Fountain split
percentages are out of whack. I don't think we
Adam Curry: read that one on the last show. I think on the read
on election really? Yeah, I think so. Think that came in
like oh, did
Dave Jones: that come in after? Yeah. Yeah. Let me see if I can
get to the right. Point. Do we read the I think we read the big
boost for the big Liberty boost from blueberry. Yeah, we had. We
did this was last weekend night boardroom. It was a weekend we
did
Adam Curry: Saturday. Yeah. Yeah, we did Saturday. So yeah.
I'm sorry. Yeah. I should have reminded you. It wasn't a
boardroom app was boardroom not after dark was boardroom. On the
weekend. In
Unknown: winboard. boardroom in jeans. Yep. casual
clothing. Yes, that's right. casual, casual
Dave Jones: Saturdays. Right?
Adam Curry: That's right.
Dave Jones: Okay, here we go. January 28. This is this this?
This is what is an aggregator app. And where the this is from
source D over pods is Archie 1701 SATs. He said what's that?
What is it he's talking about? He's talking about Rob's from
Lipsense comments. What is an aggregator app? And where? And
where are the stats taken after Apple cut the automatic
downloads? The questions don't know the answer to either one of
those sources. They also again with a 1701 Star Trek boost. He
says I thought Google Chrome was the default on Android and
Android had a large market share of computing. That's true. But
go look at the just go look at the charts. Archie. Chrome
dominates. I mean, it's not just Android. It's desktop. It's it's
I mean, like the numbers are not even funny. Just just brave
Adam Curry: sharp is cross a chrome derivative or does it
show up as brave?
Dave Jones: I think it shows up as brave because they Yeah,
yeah, it's not it's not detecting the engine. Nothing is
detecting the actual browser. Yeah,
Adam Curry: I like brave Brave is my browser man. I like it.
Dave Jones: And he says, What about Chrome OS? Yeah, I mean,
it's saying Same deal I just don't if you go look at the
actual numbers it's not it's not just those pre installs it's
it's legit download market share memorias podcast Kyron 1234
through fountain he says appreciate your focus on the
individual Adam 1% of the total now plus 40% downloads doesn't
matter on one single bid to me. appreciate all your hard work.
Alex in a tube is where I have been directing people who want
to start a video podcast and appreciate you Dave. Thanks.
Thanks, Gary. Yeah,
Adam Curry: I mean that's I'll just keep hammering that until
the cows come home that it's not about it's not about the
aggregate didn't no longer necessary to be number one or
top of the list or have the most downloads you just need people
to support you that's that's really that's the new world that
we live in. That's exactly what the value verse musicians are
finding out. I don't need to be number one I don't need to be
featured by Spotify. I just need my my people to show up and
support me That's it.
Dave Jones: Sir Brian of London 21 948 through cast ematic he
says I had to open pod verse search for pod paying than wind
back to 34 minutes to boost this mentioned in cast thematic go
apple waiting to hear apples. See waiting to hear apples Apple
pay via PayPal come in. Sure. Thanks, Brian. Appreciate you.
Oh, another follow up 1948 Boost sir Brown of London. He says Sir
Alec saved my butt with professional level Python for
hive pod thing writer. Alex Alex save is saving people's butts is
basically his job title. Yes, no kidding during the day job.
Adam Curry: Oh, you know what? I probably good old Alex. He's
probably still in the split for the live show. Let me say he
must be he must be loving that.
Dave Jones: He's watching that watching this as hey,
Adam Curry: I'm doing great here today. This is
Dave Jones: Rene Nagy I know it's hot butcher this guy.
Adam Curry: I love how you say that everyone loves how you say
that? Pod verse
Dave Jones: says compression boost. Nice. Thank you, Renee.
Bear, snare Sinha, satchel Richards. The podcast guru says
you guys are doing the Lord's work. Thank you
Unknown: for trying. Yes,
Dave Jones: that's a call a person. Dude, person sent a 4096
That's a 4k kill a boost through breeze killer boost. Dave in
activity pub, the identity is controlled by the server owner
in nostre. The identity is controlled by the client. Okay,
he says noster doesn't rely on any one relay to maintain its
decentralization, I can migrate to any relay with my identity
intact.
Adam Curry: Okay, did you see any of the the session the
session? The Congress says shops with with the social media
companies and did not Oh my god. It was I actually felt bad for
people like Zuckerberg, you know, they had the whole room
stacked with people whose children had committed suicide,
or bought a meal online that had fentanyl and died from it that
had been sexually abused. And literally like you have blood on
your hands, turn around apologize to these people. And
you know, they were all stacked, they had pictures and they're
holding it up pictures of the dead children. It was the most
disgusting display have ever seen. Meanwhile, by the way, we
just funding all kinds of actual killing in sandy areas of the
world. But okay, let's let's focus on Facebook and Instagram.
But as I'm watching that I'm confused. It was all about
section 230. That's basically what it was, of course, and I'm
concluding there's only two ways this can finally wind up now it
is an election year. So they're doing this to pressure them.
Everyone wants a backdoor everyone wants an influence,
hey, do keep my account or whatever heat my post. I can
tell you the end goal is or the end result will be if it's not
now it'll be in five years or 10 years, platforms are going to go
away. It won't be worth it anymore. Because either there'll
be so restrictive that I mean because they basically want
these people you know these platforms to be liable the
saying it's your fault That's your fault is your fault was not
because it's under Section 230 I'm protected. I think that's
going to go away eventually. And I gotta be honest with you, I
wouldn't cry for a second. I want to go back to RSS feeds.
You know, that's what it's go back to RSS feeds, your is your
feed, you're liable for your feed. You know the index can
still have an index of feeds, you know, we're not hosting
content. Why wouldn't we need an index of feeds for blogs? This,
it's a mess. The only other way you can do it is everybody has
to have a government ID that is known that is approved. It's
digital. There's verification. And that's not an American thing
yet. But I just see the writing on the wall, you can put it down
now. You can write it down, this platform stuff is going to go
away. It's killing it is. I mean, it's not it's not killing
people, but it's not healthy.
Unknown: It's just not healthy. I
Dave Jones: totally agree. And the world will be a better place
for it.
Adam Curry: I think so I think so too. And I you know, it's
like, you know, and it may be even, I think even Apple will
start, you know, Spotify, they'll start to have second
thoughts. It's like, Oh, I'm getting blamed for this. I'm
getting blamed for that. Hey,
Dave Jones: I've said it before the internet was a mistake.
Unknown: It was Yeah, it wasn't. Yeah, probably. It
Dave Jones: was. We've been watching we've been as a family
at night. We've been watching musicals.
Adam Curry: Oh, we've been watching Little House on the
Prairie man. Okay. Have you been watching it? I'm an honorary
member of the Little House on the Prairie community. Now
somehow I got into that.
Dave Jones: In one day. I'll go ahead. One day I'll tell you
about. There's an epic, there's a single episode of Little House
on the Prairie. That taught me what being a man really is more
than any other thing. Anybody in my life was anything else. It
was the bay. It was like, the greatest example of what true
manhood looks like being a grown up, man. Wow.
Adam Curry: Well, I just want to say that the lt h o p community
is on the edge of its seat.
Unknown: Oh, LH T. O. P. I got it wrong. LHC. Okay.
Dave Jones: Well, yeah, we'll talk we'll talk. All right. I'm
Adam Curry: gonna remember because I want to know, I want
to know what that good. That was great. It was all propaganda, by
the way the entire show was, I think was Norman Lear
propaganda. But that's okay. If it did that for you, I'm happy.
Dave Jones: No, I mean, noster. Yeah. And understand about the
about the identity, about the identity thing, that the the
problem the, there's some there's problems with that
identity, though. And there's problem the so if you're, if
there's no secondary keys, so you can't revoke a key, you just
have to create a whole new identity. Hmm.
Adam Curry: Wow, I didn't even thought about that. Because, you
know, I do a lot of encrypted email and I can revoke a key and
have a new one set up.
Dave Jones: Right. So there's no key hierarchy. The the issue
yes, you're you're moving, you're moving you're at you can
move your identity from one relight to another. But in
practice, there's only there's your your relays are limited to
what you're connected to through your app. And that's primarily
let me just say when when Domus goes away, which is looking like
it will because of all the funding stuff that he's talking
about the whole all of nostre collapses. That's just that's
just what's gonna happen. These these are highly centralized
relays. And yes, you you, technically on paper, you can
move from one to another, but that's not the way it's working
out in practice. Anyway, that's, I don't want to spend too much
time on that, but not understand what to do.
Adam Curry: I do have an important question that just
came in from blueberry 55 555 What kind of musical is Dave?
Dave Jones: Oh, oh, I forgot us. Yeah, we're watching musicals.
And I can confidently say this, with like, with full authority
that I've granted to myself. The greatest musical of all time. Is
Hello, Dolly. With Barbra Streisand. Wow. There is no
second place.
Adam Curry: Do what do you think about Jesus Christ Superstar?
Dave Jones: haven't seen it yet. It's on the list. My wife made a
list of 104 musicals. And we're gonna we're watching and
Adam Curry: she stopped teaching and she no longer in the
teaching profession. Where do you find this time?
Dave Jones: We, we've. We've made it through a bar so far.
Last Last night we finished An American in Paris. Gene Kelly.
This
Adam Curry: is this is a secret passion of mine. I have seen
many musicals on Broadway.
Dave Jones: I love them. I'd never seen very many musicals.
And then like she started watching them and made this
list. And now I'm hooked. It's a fact that I think that what
reminded me of this lesson the Internet is a mistake. Like, you
look. And you can, you don't even have to go back to these
musicals from the 50s and 60s, you can go back to even old TV
shows like The X Files from the 90s. And what you notice is like
when you're when you're in somebody's office, their desk
does not have a computer on it. Yeah,
Adam Curry: yes, exactly. And
Dave Jones: it's so satisfying.
Adam Curry: I was watching last night, we were watching the
documentary of We Are the World USA for Africa, who have it as
good as 1985. And Lionel Richie is kind of doing most of the
narration as a lot of stuff. I didn't know. But what was
interesting is they had to get all these artists into the nm
studio all at the same time. And there were no cell phones. You
know, there was no email that you had to communicate through
managers. They were sending cassette tapes with the demo out
through FedEx. And then it worked. Well, a lot of them were
at the American Music Awards. So they chose that night to after
everyone had their awards. And they all took them to the
studio. But it was the same thing. Like I mean, I think
those things Smokey Robinson had one of those, you know, the big
VHS cassette sized cell phones, but otherwise no one had a cell
phone no one had email no one had even just to get the demo.
Now. It's like hey, I'll shoot you an mp3. Like no, no, here.
They made cassettes. This and they FedEx the cassettes. It was
it was beautiful. This,
Unknown: Robinson Yeah, it was.
It was so so simple. Back then.
Adam Curry: You will enjoy a Book of Mormon.
Unknown: Book of Mormon. Okay. Fantastic. Fantastic musical.
Okay, write
Dave Jones: that down and make sure that's on the list. The
same book of mormon so we watched cats the other night
never seen I've never
Adam Curry: seen it was it good people rave about horrible.
Dave Jones: That is the worst piece of work that's Hall of
garbage I've ever seen. This is why
Adam Curry: I've never been compelled to go see it like
that. I don't think I want to go see cats.
Dave Jones: Oh my gosh is awful. It's evidently the we didn't
make it through. We made it through about 30 minutes and we
were all three of us. Me and my wife and daughter just stared at
each other like no, no. I can't do this.
Unknown: Good. Well,
Adam Curry: I want to report every every board meeting I want
to report I want the the pod sage musical recommendation of
the week.
Unknown: We need a jingle Yeah, sir
Adam Curry: TJ the raffle Jeff Smith get on the stick people we
need the jingle.
Dave Jones: Get CSB coming in 34,000 sets out and he says that
he fellow white people David
Adam Curry: fellow white people made
Dave Jones: it through shad GPT so we know this we know it's
safe. I have gray blue eyes and I'm passing as local in Northern
Europe including Scandinavia, despite merely being a Polak.
However, if you are if you are an American, or you are
interested in black American culture and culture and
experiences in history, then I recommend podcast no facts which
you can find at www dot mov facts Z with a z.com to get
comprehensive insights that go beyond surface level commentary.
Yossi SB
Adam Curry: Thank you CSB. Dan love that. That guy's doing
that. He's promoting everyone else's podcast. That's so cool.
That's so cool. Very cool. That's really cool that ESP
appreciate it.
Dave Jones: We got some monthlies. We got pod page
Brendan ever pockets bread
Adam Curry: dollars now with chapters and transcripts on the
pod page. He's pulling that right in.
Dave Jones: Oh, is that a new feature? Yeah,
Adam Curry: yes. New says noise is noise on pod page. Cameron
Dave Jones: Rose $25 Thank you, Cameron. been around long time
appreciate you brother Chad Farrow, the Chief Chief
Marketing Officer of bugs in 2.0 $20.20. Thank you, Chad.
Always pleasure. New Media $1. That's Martin Landeskog and
Martin and Mark Graham $1. Thank you.
Adam Curry: Thank you all so much. I check the tally coin.
Nothing there of course but in case you want to donate a whole
Bitcoin to the project. Go to podcast index.org down at the
bottom you'll see two red donate buttons one is for on chain
Bitcoin. The other is for your Fiat fun coupons through Pay
Pal. And of course, we recommend you go to podcast apps.com Get a
modern podcast app for all kinds of reasons. There's what are we
what are we now on features 2019 and 20
Dave Jones: Blend namespace feature Yeah.
Adam Curry: Who does a lot there's a lot.
Dave Jones: I happen to be on the podcast namespace page and I
can't count them. Yeah, well then
Adam Curry: Dave is counting. I'm gonna say this set between
17 and 20 and a A lot of these apps have implemented all of
them. And the one that the one that we like is V for v. So you
can fill up your, your app, fill it up with some Satoshis. And
boost us and we'll be happy 25 Wow. And we'll be happy to happy
to read out your note and thank you on the show. And, as always,
excuse me, this is a value for value project, podcasting. 2.0
Everything we do you got podcasting or saw social, we got
the website. We've got the API. We got the namespace. We're here
for you with the podcast and the board meeting every single week.
And we appreciate all our board members who showed up in the in
the chat, which you can access to some of these apps as well.
Or how do we even promote the chat? How do people even know to
go there? Do we even promote it? To the IRC chat? Yeah, to the
IRC chat? Well, that's where everyone is. I think the IRC
chat you know,
Dave Jones: what's funny is I keep tweeting and tweeting out
the same chat link from like, literally five months ago.
Adam Curry: And that's the, the nostril chat.
Dave Jones: That's the MK Ultra chat. That That thing's just
been running for months. I have no idea what kind of craziness
is going on in that chat.
Adam Curry: I don't think anyone uses it.
Dave Jones: Let's go check out. There might be all sorts of
horrible Shiny,
Unknown: shiny stuff. Probably. That's possible. See, chat.
Adam Curry: I wonder if anyone's ever in there. That's
interesting.
Dave Jones: Chris, you know, from five days ago, no, he's
talking about nip 47 Your wallet.
Adam Curry: Wallet Connect. There you go. There's stuff in
there. All right, everybody. We look forward to seeing you next
week. Same time, same IRC channel. And of course, we'll be
on the stream. Get them on podcast app, it will notify you
when we go live and make sure to send us a boost. We're happy to
send you a boost back brother Dave, thank you so much, man.
It's always the people that don't maybe don't realize it.
But this is literally the only time we talk. Yes.
Dave Jones: There's a few texts during the week but this is when
we talk pretty
Adam Curry: much it so this is a true true board meeting. Thank
you all everybody. We will see you next week. That concludes
the board meeting with all of our resolutions. The meeting
minutes will be in the transcript See you next Friday.
Everybody take care bye bye.
Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast
index.org for more information.
So that's happening