Adam Curry: Oh, casting 2.0 for October 20 2023, episode 151 One
big table Well, hello, Friday that must mean for another board
meeting your podcast in 2.0. We are the only boardroom that is
not available on Youtube, who gives you all the latest lowdown
on modern podcasting, everything happening with the podcast
namespace, whatever we got going on and podcast index.org And of
course all the happenings of podcast index dot social. I'm
Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in
Alabama, the man who knows the lyrics to a song for every
modern buzzword say hello to my friend on the other end. Ladies
and gentlemen, Mr. Dave Jones. Look. Yes, look, look. Look at
hairy legs. Look.
Dave Jones: I can claim rookie status in podcasting.
Adam Curry: Yes. What do you say? What are you gonna say?
Dave Jones: I mean, three, three times in a row. That's not Adam
curry quality.
Adam Curry: It's been a rough week. I I took Tina to the to
the airport yesterday, San Antonio. She and six girlfriends
are now in Bryce Canyon.
Dave Jones: I knew it. It well knew that Tina was gone. I knew
that before we even started the show.
Adam Curry: Well, that's interesting. Because yeah, so
here's what happened. So I take her Wednesday. Traffic is
horrendous. So it takes me four hours to get there and back. And
then and I promised chyron I would do the mere mortals
podcast. And so that you know, and so I started that at 9pm. So
I got back, you know, I literally stopped at water
burger jam to water burgers down my throat. keto, right, yeah.
Yeah, total keto. With some salad in between the buns. The
water burger, I'd say is probably the most healthy of any
type. I would still call that basically a restaurant and not
fast food. If there is a good company, it's pretty faster. Run
it faster on Thank you. Yes. So I do that. And so now as by the
time we're done, it's like 11 11:30am and I have the show
the next day. So I'm up at 7am You know, doing my, my normal
thing. And then I had promised, who actually was very kind a
friend of mine had said, Hey, why don't you we'll make dinner
over here. Got another guy coming over. He owns a winery.
We'll watch the the the Astros versus the Rangers. Which I
guess
Dave Jones: is something you do you watch baseball,
Adam Curry: which is I guess, an important game.
Dave Jones: This is not this. Okay, I see where all the
problems are starting now.
Adam Curry: Yeah, you know, now the guy owns a winery. This is
the international arms dealer and his friend who owns a very
large, very famous winery here. So we had some really excellent
wine. Yeah, and then it's like, oh, okay, I'm home and then it's
Friday and I got to do all this stuff because Tina is not here.
So yeah, and then you know, so yes, you're right. I'm out of
sorts. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Hi,
Dave Jones: Karen. You bastard This is your fault.
Adam Curry: It is a little bit it was nice. It was it was fun
to talk with with kind it's been a while I think had been a year
maybe since we had maybe even longer since we had last time
you did the V for V show. No, no mere mortals. Oh, I
Dave Jones: thought you did memorials last time in favor of
at this time. No, I must have been back
Adam Curry: no I've not done V for V i think it's only been
mere mortals.
Dave Jones: Oh, which is fine. Still queued up for me out I
haven't listened.
Adam Curry: You mean the last from the last year the last time
I did
Dave Jones: not listen to the last one. This new one.
Adam Curry: So I've been something amazing happened. I
love it when when this happens in in the podcasting 2.0 band of
vagabonds because what else can we call ourselves? This is this
is the most
Dave Jones: you can't say gypsies anymore. What's the new
word for that?
Adam Curry: I wish I could Yeah, gypsies is actually fine. But
yeah, I know we'll get all kinds of problem with the gypsies.
Dave Jones: I'm not I'm still not I'm still unsure why that's
been canceled out of the lexicon. But is that no you
Adam Curry: can say is you can say gypsy you can't say Jip. Oh,
you can't say that was a gyp become your thing racist against
gypsies to
Dave Jones: 2.0 band of gypsy
Adam Curry: band of gypsies you know what's gonna happen get
some gypsies come and mess me up.
Dave Jones: Oh, Nathan G says Romani Yeah, you're supposed to
call a specific Romani
Adam Curry: doesn't have quite the appeal of gypsies. It's not
as fun of a because I imagine John Spurlock can was like a big
gold earring.
Dave Jones: Nose Nose ring. Yeah,
Adam Curry: no yeah, nose ring with a skull Cadillacs wearing
suits. With big, big, ballooning silk shirt.
Dave Jones: Yes, here's a blouse,
Adam Curry: a blouse. A blouse. Yes. So just threw an idea out
there about, which was inspired by a chat I had with Alex gates
about putting booster grams into chapters dynamically. And here
we are one week later and it's running and all my shows
Dave Jones: realized out of the ether,
Adam Curry: and it's working, and it even has cool things like
top boost. I mean, this. This was so fast. I love you, John
Spurlock that was hilariously fast. Yes. So
Dave Jones: what a great term hilariously fast Yes. seems to
happen in this group has happened. Hilarious. Yes,
Adam Curry: it's the reflex service, which immediately makes
me think of flat flat flat flex. Duran Duran is the reflex. You
don't remember the reflex Duran Duran is reflex? I don't think a
reflex is a lonely child his way. Yeah, they're making up the
lyrics here. And today, it's already an inch in integration
in sovereign feeds. So I don't even have to figure it out what
the podcast guid is, or the episode guid pod, it goes right
in there. Like if you just click on the end, if you don't have
them in your value block, it'll add it to your value block.
Dave Jones: And what's gonna, what's gonna happen is we're
gonna get so many redirects to may enable services like this
that like in the enclosure URL, there's going to be like, it's
going to start exceeding maximum URL length sizes in in like, you
know, host headers and stuff. But first
Adam Curry: headers well this isn't on the mp3 file. This is
only on the chapter file.
Dave Jones: Yeah, okay. Well, same same thing same
Adam Curry: redirect No, no, no, no, you grab it directly from
him and he's if you have an existing an existing chapter
json file, he sucks that in and he hands it all back on his
reflex.io URL. So just one URL.
Dave Jones: Yeah, but I think it's a redirect chain because
he's got to know where the original was to do the pass
through.
Adam Curry: So yes, you're right. Yes. You're right. You're
right. You're right. Hey, it's works. I don't like I can't I
can. I mean, there's stuff going on. I saw Andrew Gromit working
with Mark void zero on course headers. What exactly was that
about?
Dave Jones: Well, our, our our feet, and I'm guessing it's all
of the mp3 in a sonos.com feeds, all of your Elvis stuff coming
off your CDN. I'm assuming that they all suffer from lack, of
course, preflight.
Adam Curry: Oh, Andrew grew up with, by the way, Andrew Gromit
to have him in the group. Let me just say, Andrew from it. Yeah,
he's
Dave Jones: old school.
Adam Curry: I mean, you know him, of course, but Andrew, he
was one of the if not the, one of the first devs to show up
after I put the iPod or script out and said, help. And he
showed up, and it was that was the original iPod or lemon. I
think he's what he worked on. And that was a Windows app was
an application. We didn't have. It was executable. And you know,
it was with Andrew that we learned things like, it's not a
good idea to download all items in a feed the minute you
subscribe. I mean, this is literally the early days of
podcasting. We had not even thought about that stuff.
Dave Jones: And 20 years later, Apple podcast just fixed it.
Good word was 20 years. Yeah, good work. I think Andrew where?
I think he was involved with AECT for poets. And I mean, like
he pops up every now and right. Yeah.
Adam Curry: And of course, he was employee number one, I think
at pod show. Oh, okay. Right. Yeah. brought him in right away.
And he ran the me. We do some fun stuff. Man. We had the big
is he a Google new? Is it? I don't know where he is. I
thought he was a Google most a lot of the pod show. People went
to Plex. We're not Plex. Now plunk. Splunk, Splunk. Close for
the
Dave Jones: big day. The data
Adam Curry: plug whisperer, and I think a lot of them got pretty
wealthy off of the IPO. Because most folks got in before before
the IPO. I suppose the big deal. Yeah, the Splunk people did did
well. And Andrew just a good guy. He really is. We just have
fun stuff. We did like the golden ticket. This was dai
before anyone even was thinking about it. was him that did it
coded that Yeah, except it wasn't an ad but we'd put a
golden ticket, which would be an insert in somewhere in the
middle of a podcast and it was only for like Max five
listeners. And so all of a sudden you hear congratulations,
you're a winner. You've got a golden ticket. And that would be
inserted on the fly and then that would be for a contest or
some promotion, which is a great use of inserting stuff
Dave Jones: instead of such a clever idea. Can't believe
nobody's resurrected that and done it again.
Adam Curry: Well they have it just use it for ads now. Yes,
but as a contest promotion yes fantastic. It was it was really
fun to do that stuff. We did a lot of fun stuff until it just
didn't get fun. And Andrew I think he still hung in there
after I left which is amazing. Yeah,
Dave Jones: well that's when it gets really not fun when people
start bailing out at the top and you're still there Yeah, not fun
at all.
Adam Curry: Well, we also got I can't remember why but uh,
probably the this is investors VC you know guy you need a real
technical guide we got some former Mossad Israeli guide to
be the technology lead suite and you know, that was my first
experience with Oh hands what we're doing an all hands stand
up what stands up we're gonna stand to inner circle and talk
okay
Dave Jones: like this this tournament this is Silicon
Valley terminology a half of it. I still don't understand. Stand
up. I don't even know I don't know what a stand up is. I see
people use this terms. These terms all the time at halftime.
I have no idea what they're talking about. Well, they
Adam Curry: literally just stand it's just I guess to keep the
energy high. You all stand up and you go around. It's our
Monday morning. It's not a good product. It's not good. It's not
good to do this early on Monday morning. So
Dave Jones: you just call it the thing that it is it's
Adam Curry: stand up all hands I mean, I fall asleep
Dave Jones: but yeah, the spirit this this burlock extravaganza
with the chapters was great. Oh, he also did something very
valuable that may have been missed.
Adam Curry: Oh, I put I put it in the show notes that to be
made. Yes. The breakdown of which apps and blip tend to vie
record fields and what they send yes, this was a great idea. I
put it in the show notes for everybody to go check it out.
And there's some of y'all are deficient. Saying
Dave Jones: we know who we are
Adam Curry: we even I know now who you are. I see you breeze
not sending a good
Dave Jones: you Yeah, there's this this was sorely needed. And
I was trying to communicate this stuff individually to the app
developers over the last you know couple months and it was a
better idea I like the way he did
Adam Curry: oh yeah cuz canal matrix Yeah, now even I can
shame people.
Dave Jones: Now we can be public everybody can be embarrassed who
was the best?
Adam Curry: Who was the best? Let me see. I think curio caster
has pretty much everything. And fountain also pretty pretty cool
curio caster and cast ematic are the only ones who have the
reply. Custom key, which is cool. I mean, it's not I can't
use it anywhere yet. But I can just see mail give people a
little bit of time with with this with this reflex service.
And I think we'll come up with all kinds of cool ideas. I mean,
right off the bat, I love the different colors. For the boost
amount and the booster gram, I I'd like to know how I can set a
picture on my avatar that shows up because I'm just like an
empty head. Which is of course, true to my nature. But I'm, you
know, like to top boosting, that's a cool little, little
extra he jammed in there. There's fun stuff.
Dave Jones: I want to go look at your show. We'll see I'm gonna
pull that URL up. See what it looks like.
Adam Curry: It's a JSON man is like Jason is some cool. Jason's
to JSON.
Dave Jones: template. Let's see what what show? I guess
yesterday has no agenda would have it in there guy. Yeah. Oh,
yeah. We got to look at it, see what see what the what the
structure that? See, where's this? Okay, so
Adam Curry: what's nice about it is and I haven't, you know, I'm
sure that an exact overlap may never happen, but the existing
chapters that dread puts in, which he also puts in later. So
it's kind of cool because it takes him a little bit to get
the chapters and chapter images in. And while that's happening,
Chapter chapters are being created with booster grams. So
it's very lively. And I think there was a good thread between
him and James about what's the best way to refresh this for
apps, which I have no business discussing, but I understand
what it was about and I thought it was good. I'm trying to
figure out you know, what do we do a no cash header or do
something in a header and James was talking about using an E tag
or something?
Dave Jones: Yeah. Oh, this Oh, the chat. Steve Steven bass
saying we need an RSS identity for listeners to Avatar could be
in the feed. Yeah, he was talking about that the other
day, but then half had RSS fingers. Web finger could play.
That could be a role for that.
Adam Curry: Now what this is where this is why we develop es
OPML Dave What are you talking about?
Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, no, but when things were Finger couldn't
be a good I mean, that's already in play and the activity pub
made that a thing. Mass
Adam Curry: Oh, okay. Just so this existing profiles can be
pulled up. I had an idea i, this may be something you were
thinking of. And because me, it's like whenever I hear the
new media show this, like, I get so discouraged because I'm
talking about YouTube, half the time. And I realized that I'm
kind of the same way. You know, I'll talk about noster. Yes,
yes. Yeah. So I don't want to go too deep. But can we reverse?
What's going on with this? Toe? noster it's no secret that
there's a lot of like, yeah, you know, weed who needs the RSS is
old school is sucks. You know, relays. Yeah. Can does it make
sense? Because the only thing that's great about nostre in my
mind is your it's literally your profile. Can we tie profiles to
feeds?
Dave Jones: So that, you know, I was thinking about this post by
Adam Curry: let's check out JB 55.
Dave Jones: JB 55. Yeah,
Adam Curry: I have the post you want me to read?
Dave Jones: Yes. Yeah. Okay.
Adam Curry: This is the damos Damas developer. And we both saw
it because I guess I saw someone has the noster relay setup.
Bridge. Yeah, the bridge. Yeah, the bridge. Yeah, somehow I'm
following this guy. So I see him. Thanks to some analysis
from our intern at F Oh, seven EO b one a. According to opt in
appstore analytics. One of the biggest issues with Dominus is
user retention. 99% of people stop using Dominus after six
months. In the next version, we'll be looking at ways to get
more users to that aha moment that gets them to stick around.
Like all of us addicts, ideas, welcome. Notifications is
obviously a big one. But maybe we could make it easier to get
people there first sets and that he follows up with an amazing
revelation. And assists, said it's mostly because people don't
reach a moment where the app provides value for them. That's
this as the developer saying this. I'm like, wow, yes. There
you go. And if you just read through the the comment thread,
it's very obvious that well, a couple of things are obvious one
is it's it's like a fart sniffing circle. It's a Bitcoin
thing mainly. Or at least that's what you see when you come in.
And the other one is people kind of really expect an algo to give
them all kinds of stuff and and all kinds of dopamine hits right
off the bat. And that's the opposite of what of what noster
does. Yep.
Dave Jones: Yep. I mean, the I don't know if you saw my reply.
Adam Curry: Yes, I did. I don't know if there's that work,
because the bridge go two ways.
Dave Jones: It does. Yeah, it does go it goes both ways. Yeah.
So the really there is, this was if this was foreseeable,
obviously. You're exactly right, is that the lack of an algo?
Makes makes the lack of a dopamine hit. And, and not a lot
of people, you know, were there. Yeah, it's that, you know,
there's, there's all the normal problems. This is not me, this
is not immune to any of the network effect type issues that
we always exhibit. But it's, there's this, there's this
overlap. I mean, the problems with getting people into nostre
are the exact same problems as getting people into Bitcoin.
Because once you get there, you don't know what you're supposed
to do with. Yes, it's like, well, I've got a lot of sets.
Okay. Now, what do I do? Yeah, get more sets?
Adam Curry: Because actually, that's stag Hodel. Yes,
Dave Jones: the answer? That's the same thing with the with
Nasr. So once you get there?
Adam Curry: I think that's I think that's overvalued though,
by by the NOS it. It's cool. But I think it's, and it's also been
crippled by by the Apple Appstore. I think the the ZAP
thing is, I mean, it's just it's overvalued by the network.
That's not what people expect from a social network. In fact,
they have the exact same issue RSS has, which you can call an
issue or not, is discovery. You know, there's no discovery
mechanism, the app can do that. I mean, that would mean Domus
has to do all kinds of stuff to surface things and people had a
lot of really traditional. I love the guy that says you need
to advertise on other social networks. Yeah, I said,
Dave Jones: Well, you know, the, the thing here is the zaps are
not it. These apps are not the aha moments apps are not the
big. The big thing, because I mean, you can already do that
other places, so that the reason boosts are a big deal within
podcasting. 2.0 is because you can't do it anywhere. You can't
it didn't exist. It's not native to the podcasting ecosystem.
Right. To have a to have a way to send a message back directly
attached, you know, scotch taped to, to some money
Adam Curry: was stuck with chewing gum, actually. Yeah.
Dave Jones: Okay. And that's not normal within podcasting. So it
was an aha moment. Because the podcasters when they see that
they're like, Whoa, this is crazy, right? This is not that
this is something that's not native to the, to the to the
protocol or the ecosystem. Zet, zap, sending, sending a message?
Well, that's what the that's what noster already does. Yeah,
it already sends a message now. Now you're attaching some, some
money to it. But you could already do that with a lightning
invoice or something like that. Why
Adam Curry: don't you think you can you can actually send a
message can you? Zap is just, it's just a direct payment? I
don't think there's an opportunity to pull
Dave Jones: it out. There's a message. There's a payload field
out there. Yeah. But the, but it's not. I mean, it's like,
Well, okay, I mean, I can just post a QR code and get a
lightning payment. I mean, it's not, it's not revelatory, right.
In the in the way that that it was without even
Adam Curry: before zaps the, the, the big deal about nostre
was, it's censorship resistant, which, arguably, RSS is
censorship resistant. The proof is in the pudding.
Dave Jones: I would say RSS is more censorship resistant, that
you go. You have less, you have less aggregation points, right?
Yes, he's me. Yeah. So we have more and more aggregation within
noster. Yeah. Because you have, you really only have a few big,
really big relays.
Adam Curry: And this is, it's really interesting. You say
this, because this is exactly one of the problems I get, no
matter what app I open, invariably, it's not connecting
to all the relays and my followers, my subscriptions
aren't the same. They change. And as I'm sitting there, I can
see you go, Oh, no, I have this many followers and have this
many I'm following Oh, we just went up again, because it's
connecting to stuff. And that's kind of the opposite of what you
want. And that's not what your podcast app does. Your podcast
app says, Here's your subscriptions.
Dave Jones: And they've they've come up to this to this wall.
Yeah. To this rug. And I had an idea of how to help them.
Adam Curry: This was the the tease you gave me yesterday.
Dave Jones: So I've been thinking, you know, we've we've
had this discussion about decentralizing the index even
further. And I've been looking into and thinking through ways
to do that through alpha for a long time, have wanted to do
things over live p2p. And in that, that DHT space within
IPFS.
Adam Curry: The DHT isn't distributed hash space.
Dave Jones: Yes, sexy,
Adam Curry: sexy, sexy.
Dave Jones: So this is all that's all good and everything.
But but then I started thinking, you know, that's the that's the
sort of, not wire level. But that's that's it at a lower
protocol level. What would it be interesting to extend the API,
beyond HTTP REST, functionality into being speaking in the
native distributed protocols. So what I mean is like, if the API
spoke activity pub, or if the API spoke noster Wow. And so so
that you could these would be sort of like, I guess to start
with, they would be bots, maybe, or something like that, where
you could query the you could query the index through this
through this protocol. And what you get back so let's, let me
let me just run through in a possible interaction. So I
mention in the in an in a post on Noster, or activity pub. I
mentioned the podcast index, and I say something like, you know,
I'm Searching for such and such, you know, I want I want the the
most recent episode of podcasting 2.0. And you get a
reply with a bunch of links that will open in normal podcast
apps. Okay, you get a link for cast ematic a link for pod pod
verse a link for podcast guru a link for breeze, basically, you
get you get, you can shoot
Adam Curry: you can choose, you can choose your, your app of
choice.
Dave Jones: Yeah, you get deep links to the episode or
whatever, whatever data is being requested. So that is because
here's the here's, here's the thing, in my thinking is that
you know, noster suffers from, from what happens to a lot of
software projects where they feel like they have to, they
have they're going to reinvent everything and in this is right
it is it is sucking a lot of attention and a
Adam Curry: lot probably good development resources,
Dave Jones: and horsepower, away from things that are are that
are away from things that are already working and working
fine. And also in like this is it's a distraction is what I'm
saying is a it is a distraction, because the the the retention
and all this stuff that all these things we know is that is
does a huge problem, and it's not going to get any better.
inst this would be a way to sort of meet people where they are.
And instead of, hey, let's reinvent podcasting on noster.
Adam Curry: Why don't we extend it to Nasir
Dave Jones: extend it to Nasir extend it to activity pub so
that what you get is not playing a podcast in nostre, which let's
all agree is going to be a horrible? Yes, it's gonna suck
Adam Curry: is this. So with activity pub, let's just take
these two protocols. I mean, there's a couple more I can
think of. Can we make it to weigh now, sir? Well, it comes
back to the the one thing when I if I send the booths, I'd like
my profile picture to show up. So you can pull that in from
activity pub, or web finger or whatever it is. Right. Possibly,
Dave Jones: I mean, well, you know, because then we're getting
them we're starting to see, I guess the reason I'm the hemming
and hawing is my, my idea is really about, like, returning
focus to to actual podcasting, and podcast apps. You know, our,
our core mission is podcast apps, podcast, app developer
support, right. We support podcast app developers, I had a
guy. Email me, a guy that we know, email me over the weekend
is saying look at the Apple API is just having outage after
outage is killing me. Oh, really? What? Yeah. And his, his
Platt, his service depends on it. And he's like, it's just,
it's just wearing me out. And I was like, yeah, he's like, it's
a real problem. I'm thinking about switching over to
anything. He said, I'm thinking about switching over to the
Index API, just because I'm having so many reliability
issues. And this is a money making service for him. It's not
a it's not I don't think it's his full time gig. But it is
definitely a profitable side hustle. Right? And I was like,
Well, you know, we have this thing. Now we have two endpoints
where you can where they mimic the apple API,
Adam Curry: right? And you can just drop it right in? Yeah,
just change the DNS, basically. And you're good to go.
Dave Jones: Yeah, you have one outage, you flew temporary, you
detect one outage on an API call to Apple, switch those switch to
us for let's say a few minutes, then test it and then try to
flip that you do a failover and failback. Right. And he was
like, OMG.
Adam Curry: You got an OMG. Oh,
Dave Jones: gee. And you and so he was like, this is exactly
what I needed. And like that is that is where that's what we do.
That's the kind of developer podcast app developer support we
do. Because I'm thinking part of podcast app developer support
is, is also running a little bit of interference and playing
defense. So for when we see things coming along, that are
distracting everybody away from podcast apps, to these other
sort of wasteful side prod these wasteful distractions, like,
like let's reinvent podcasting on noster hot How about let's
not do that?
Adam Curry: Yeah, how about weed so okay. So you're saying just
make the API speak noster native app, then you can and in
essence, then we have a whole universe of developers who can
do podcast apps in Nastar. Is that what I'm hearing you say?
Dave Jones: No, no, no, I understand that. You think that
that you think that's what I'm saying. But what I'm saying is
like, we we give back results in a way that always opens up the
content in a real podcast app. Okay, good. And it removes the
need. It removes the need to do anything back riding in Nostrum.
Right? And they can open it like if they're hardcore Bitcoin
bros, they can open it up in breeze or something, roaches
fine, but we give, we give back links to real.
Adam Curry: Okay, I see what you're saying. And then so the
the mechanism is you'd determine, Okay, I have this as
my podcast app. And now when I want to get something, an
episode, a podcast or whatever the query is, it will then open
in the podcast app I already use. Yeah, that's pretty deep.
Actually. That's that's something that hasn't existed I
don't think well as dependent
Dave Jones: is once you once, if we start communicating on that
platform in that way, and make it easy for people to do that by
by these shareable links, or whatever it is. It it just gets
rid of this desire to recreate everything on recreate
podcasting on Nasr because there's now there's no need,
everybody can use the content, they can use the RSS feeds, all
these all these Bitcoin podcasters. They all, they all
have RSS feeds. Yeah. As they should. So rather than try to, I
think it would be a relief to a lot of people over there to be
able to just have their existing content open in existing apps.
But make it easy for the platform to do that, rather than
having to do all this ridiculous development work.
Adam Curry: I don't know if you if you if you remove that
desire, but it would certainly help.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's just it's, I'm,
I'm afraid that they're going to try that they're going to try to
go down this road because they're see what that post made
me think, Oh, they're searching for a killer app, they're
searching for the killer feature, and they're gonna come
around to it is going to be podcasting. And then this is
going to it's going to be five years of development work, and
it's still going to suck and instill all the contents not
going to be there. I just feel like this waste of time that's
imminent. And I'm trying to prevent it. And at the same
time, but at the same time, we need to activity pub to, like,
if we start thinking about these protocols, which there's not a
lot, there's not a lot of them. And we started thinking about
these distributed decentralized protocols, we could we could
just make the index play nice with those because the rest HTTP
as an 80, as an API language is not. I mean, it's fine. But it's
a hacky Cluj to a stick, this is all this, these are all clue,
just so why not have you know, I just think we should go to where
people are.
Adam Curry: I think that's, I think it's fantastic. I think
it's a great idea. Okay. I'm all in. Yeah, rip it. RIP and
definitely.
Dave Jones: Okay, I'll I will begin mapping that out what that
will look like. And I mean, we've already got it, which by
the by the way, that the chat, the MK Ultra chat has been
laying languishing, yes. But it's like the same chat room has
been running for like, I don't know, three months. I don't even
know what's going on today. They could be all kinds of porn and
escort services. I have no,
Adam Curry: the one I had the link I had is not a live
session. So I guess that doesn't work anymore. I don't know what
the what the current MK Ultra chat is.
Dave Jones: Oh, there's some Chinese in there. That's cool.
Really? Yeah, I just I just clicked on the link. Yeah,
somebody's posted some Chinese.
Adam Curry: Of course. Why does that not surprise me?
Dave Jones: Yeah, this is probably I probably need to get
back to this. Anyway, that this. So we've already we've already
what I'm saying like we've already got some of the code for
that. That could adapt the nostril part of MK Ultra stuff
to just start off by just creating a bot. And in have that
be something that people can interact with. So you can
Adam Curry: just query it and it'll hand it back. Yeah, nice.
Yeah. That's a cool idea. Okay, thanks.
Dave Jones: I'll start mapping it out. So before we start
finished, as
Adam Curry: I said, before you start mapping it out. Do we have
all the remote item stuff on the table? Still? Oh, of course not.
Because I'm a little more hot on that than anything,
Dave Jones: I will start mapping that stuff out after I finished
this, the remote. So where I'm at with road item is there's a
new a new parameter that you can pass to the by to the podcast by
tag in point index, to give you all of the RSS feeds that
include a value time split.
Adam Curry: Ooh, nice.
Dave Jones: So this is a multi flow, this is sort of a multi
phase approach here. Because number one, the number one need
is for people to be able to find shows their number one need
right now is for people to need to be able to find shows that
reference other shows with a value time split. Because that's
how people are going to find shows like booster gram ball
lightning thrashes. It's a mood. The these, these are the, this
is the type of discovery that people need immediately. We've
we already you know, we so I can go over WaveLight needs it,
Adam Curry: right. So I can I can see, I can find shows that
have remote items that contain medium equals music.
Dave Jones: That's, that's part two. Okay. All right. Yeah. So
right now what it does is it just gives you a list of all the
feeds that that have a value time split at all. And then, so
then step two, will be being able to begin to filter that to
say, Okay, I want value shows with value time splits, that
also have this other quality about them. Like, so. Here's the
issue. Here's an issue. The value time split can contain two
different things. It can contain a direct value recipient tag
with a key send address. Or it can contain a remote item, which
references a different feed. Right. So right now, so in the
in the database, right now I've got, I've got one table, which
is value, time splits. And the value time splits are being
pulled in with their timestamps and their durations, and that
kind of thing. And then what I had was two other tables, I had
a value, recipients table and a vote and a remote item table.
And now, I'm now rethinking that because what I was going to do
this just thinking as a database for a minute. You know, I'm
thinking okay, what we have is three unique objects unique sort
of structures here are three unique objects. You have value,
time splits, value recipients, and remote items. What you kind
of want to do your two tendency your as a database person is to
have three different strokes, you know, is to have three
different repositories for those different item types so that you
can schema them and then have relation links between those
tables. So that I can have Okay, value time split, this value
time split references, this remote item. But this other
value time split references, this value recipient.
Adam Curry: Ooh, okay, I see. This is gonna be great for the
PWA I'm developing.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Just while I'm telling you this. Do you want
this information? Yes.
Adam Curry: grommet listen up. I'm stealing grommets gonna pop
out with a progressive web app. It's gonna be like what?
Dave Jones: Yeah, to nowhere. Yeah, it's gonna blow it. Yeah.
But, but um, you know, because it's elegant on paper, doesn't
mean doesn't mean.
Adam Curry: Okay. Yeah. Well, database is voodoo.
Dave Jones: It's a quote, to quote Captain Picard. From next
generation. You can make all the right decisions and still lose.
So what what's your you know? The issue here is it, it becomes
very difficult to track these things on subsequent runs, to
see if they're the actually the same thing as what you had
before. So if somebody, if somebody had a remote if there
was a value time split, and it contained a reference to a value
recipient, and now on the next run of the aggregator it
contains, it's been changed by the, by the podcaster, to now
contain a remote item reference. And they also put in they also,
let's say, they changed a duration, slightly, maybe it's
one second, it was just it was unintentional. How do I know,
it's not really possible to know that that's the same thing. This
is all this is very, this becomes very messy, because
there's no, there's no unique identifiers to any of this stuff
in the feed. It's just the nature of RSS, right? So it's, I
think, the better option and the reason this, I'm saying all
this, because this is why it's taking me a while I think the
better option is to ditch that strategy. And just put it all in
a single table. They put it all extend this the value time
splits, table schema,
Adam Curry: doing whole include the the payment value
information,
Dave Jones: allow it to hold all possible data that could
possibly be in the children tags, everything. So that it's
gonna it's ugly looking, it's not as elegant as the other
approach. But it also gives you because, you know, the thinking
with the other approach is that if two different podcasts
referenced a remote item that was identical, you don't have to
duplicate you have, you just have two pointers to the same
data, right? But this is just a this is this is this is
silliness. So, I think I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna change this,
this schema, and I'm just going to reset this back to I'm going
to do it the ugly way. So that we get something that works
Adam Curry: better. Something that actually functions Yes.
Dave Jones: is ugly and works better than beautiful and
broken. Yeah.
Adam Curry: Basically like reading the feed in real time.
Okay, here it is. I gotcha. Because of course, we have lots
of remote items or lots of feeds pointing to the same remote
item. A lot of Ainsley Costello example.
Dave Jones: Yeah. And the developer computer person in us
like, Man, I don't want to duplicate I don't understand.
Really, we can we can do this, right, it
Adam Curry: was the way you're the way you're doing it is
that's the Adam curry way. One big table in an Access database.
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's me. And so anyway, that that, so that's
what's next. And once once we do that, it'll be pretty, pretty
simple. It'll go pretty quick. next couple of days, I should
have that finished. Cool. And then then you can start to then
we can start to actually filter you know, do some filtration on
the stuff and say, Okay, here's because right now it's just
giving you the feeds back what it needs to give you back is the
values the feed and the value time split data, right. So that
you can then say, okay, there's a there's a piece of music
that's being referenced what should that you know, what is
that and blah blah blah. Anyway, so that's where we're at with it
it's we have something there so that people if they want to
dependent into start to find shows that reference other shows
like wave like that go Go for it. I mean, that's that's ready.
Adam Curry: quick plug for ln beats, the radio tab now has 13
shows. So if homegrown hits it's a mood, mutton meeting and music
that's OYSTEIN OYSTEIN burgers very funny. Bookstagram ball
Blackhat music was it Blackhat music podcast phantom power
before the scheme's lightning thrashed power.
Dave Jones: That's a great name for a show
Adam Curry: that will phantom you know, that's phantom power
music. Our that's the that's the Costello's. That's Julie and
Jim.
Dave Jones: That's a great That's a great name for right
now. Dig it? Yeah,
Adam Curry: I had a long chat with them. Surprise.
Dave Jones: Anything you can talk about? Yeah, of
Adam Curry: course, of course. Okay. So, you know, I've had
several calls. I think a lot of people have had calls with Julie
then after ever had a call with Julian. So one Do you have a Do
you have an afternoon I'm just busting on your duly noted
because, you know, I realized that there was this huge
disconnect. Next, huge disconnect because they, they
basically started at wavelength with no data. You know, they're
only just now starting to understand the to V records
because they've never seen a booster gram from coming through
wave Lake and all that will come, I'm sure. So there's all
and there's all these presumptions like, oh, well, you
know, don't you see this? Don't? Don't you get it? No, no, no, I
haven't seen this don't understand. And then there's
just, you know, enthusiasm from so many different sides. Lots,
lots of enthusiasm. And that's really what it is. But the
enthusiasm gets wrapped up in voltage saying, yeah, here's how
you can do this. And that, like what and then you need liquidity
and like what you know, and all, all of a sudden, Everyone's just
really confused. Yeah, they go down the lightning spiral. Yeah,
a little bit of the lightning spiral. You know, the long
conversation by the way. Sam Sethi. Yes. It's working. I see
you.
Dave Jones: I see you, bro. Yes, yeah,
Adam Curry: it's working. It's really working. I see the 10,000
SATs. I see that your TLV record is beautiful.
Dave Jones: Let me see. Zan pour glass of wine brother.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I'm gonna stop. I see your tests. It's all
working. Yes, that we Yes, definitely. You know, Sam is
trying to help them. And Sam, the pot fans is something
different altogether, which, luckily, Sam wants to give us
another demo. Yes, he's also always we walk away from Sam's
demos like, what did I just see? Like, there's a lot going on
there. You know, because there's
Dave Jones: 8000 tags. Yes,
Adam Curry: he's, you know, he's creating as
Dave Jones: we add tags we just mentioned in the show was
Adam Curry: never there. Because there's all this stuff that but
he's building a real platform for interaction. And it makes a
lot of sense for, for artists. And so he's got all kinds of all
kinds of things integrated. But the basics, the the real basics
of how do we take existing artists who are in the existing
system, which is not the system that I grew up with this, so
they really gave me an education. And it was only it
was only two hours, it wasn't too bad. So they gave me and Jim
send over this huge he sent over spreadsheets. And he says you
got to understand that sweet when it comes to with real world
examples. You know, when it comes to this, you have the the
the writing of the song, the composition of the song, which
you know, lyrics itself can be 10 different people. And that's
not uncommon in today's music business, hey, I was in the
room, okay, you get a percentage. I think the joke in
Nashville is you write one, one word, you get a third of the
song, something like that. It's that kind of stuff. But then
there's the publishing side, which is an ownership of, of the
song, and then you have the master. And with the Master,
there's tip. So that's really someone who owns the product.
And there's this recoupment that you need to have in place. So I
paid for the studio time. So I need to receive my $1,000 Off
the top before anybody else gets something. Except for the for
the writer and the composer, writers and composers.
Dave Jones: Okay, so you're so you're saying that, the it's not
just about who gets what percentages? It's about also
about the order in which they get them? Yes,
Adam Curry: yes. And so they didn't have some basic knowledge
of like, well, so not knowing that you that in a TLV record in
a payment, you can see what you receive, but also what the total
amount was. This is a big deal. They didn't, they didn't know
that. And that's really, really cool. Because you don't have to
come up with complicated, you know, smart cars that were
talking and smart contracts and eath I'm like, okay, stop, you.
Stop, stop, stop. Because you can, you know, Yarrow, yes, the
recoupment. I said the easiest way to do it is if it's $1,000
Off the top or whatever it is, give everybody a 1% split
anyway, recalculate that later because then everyone can see
oh, okay, this is what's coming in. Oh, we're almost at $1,000
So soon my split should change I mean, it's literally that kind
of stuff. But for me just understanding how opaque no not
even opaque how black box Spotify and then they have this
master licensing collective which Spotify also board like no
the distributors, which is distro kid and there's a whole
bunch of other ones and they take 15% But then they a piece
goes into this collective and nobody knows exactly how that
works. The reporting is is very poor. And even on Spotify, they
have a waiting list. system as in W E IG HT. Um, so a stream
for Ainsley Costello gets less money per stream than a stream
for Taylor Swift because Oh, you get it, don't you? It's Taylor
Swift. I mean, that's literally how it's explained.
Dave Jones: Oh, there's no like, it's, you have no idea why you
have no idea why it's not contractual. It's like
Adam Curry: this. Yeah, it's just whatever goes on inside
their box. So the so, so we, we went through painstakingly, you
know, okay, here's, because what they want to do is they want to
help artists, and they want them to have a good experience. And
they they want the best systems possible. And they want to, you
know, I don't know if they want to be, I don't think they want
to be they want to be a services. Yeah, help people help
people, for us for a split in the in the block, I guess. And
so, you know, from a traditional music perspective, and Ainsley
Costello has another album that they that they want to put out,
they have to go back and talk to everybody. Okay, here's how we'd
like to do it. Because it's not going now, the good news is, no
matter what they propose, everybody's going to be happy,
because they're going to get more money than they get
currently from any system. So that's the good news.
Dave Jones: So that is more than ever more than zero is always
more. Exactly,
Adam Curry: exactly. And then, you know, moving forward, some
things probably have to change a little bit, you know, just to
morph into a slicker system, but I'm very bullish on on their
knowledge now of, of where they're at, and what they can do
and bringing people in. And I think we have all the all the
pieces in place, and what I what I stress to them, and I said,
Look, I don't know how anything else is going to work. I don't
know about putting music on your website, I don't know about
mash, I don't know about zaps. I don't know how any of that
works, the only thing I can, I can tell you that I know works
is people playing music in a podcast that's value for value
enabled. That's it. And that's the system I'm very comfortable
with, because that's where I come from, except in this case,
instead of the radio station, paying a blanket license to
ASCAP and BMI to be able to play whatever song they want. And
then ASCAP and BMI, figuring out how many times a song was
played, or whatever, you know, and everywhere a song has been
played, including it in bars and restaurants and all this, which,
you know, they don't really have all the mechanisms. And then
they they make a calculation internally and say, Okay, here's
your cut. And guess what, you know, most of it goes to the
established artists once again, because that while they probably
got played more than you do, now, but in our case, we bypass
all of that, and it goes directly from the person who's
listening to the quote unquote, radio show. And that's
revolutionary. It's, it's very exciting to them.
Dave Jones: Well, this brings up a good, okay, this brings up a
good technical point. Michael, from wavelike, emailed me and
said, and said, Hey, I'm doing, you know, I'm working through
how to calculate splits. And we know, you know, and he's like,
you know, we, it could get messy. And we know, we know
this. I mean, we've had to explain, split in the fee
calculation, hell, so we've had to explain that before. And it
makes everybody want to, you know, go jump out a window. But
in the US, I'm not going to do it again. Good. But he did have
a good idea. He said, So what he said, What if podcast index had
a, some sort of search, either an API endpoint or Sonos, which
probably doesn't make sense for that, but has some sort of
service where I can send you a split block. And it will give, I
can send you a split block and as a set amount for a boost in
it, why it will do the calculation.
Adam Curry: to hand it back to to you, oh,
Dave Jones: with an explanation of what is of what it did and
why. So that developers can can sort of test their code against
the the reference implementation.
Adam Curry: Yes, good idea.
Dave Jones: I think it's a great idea.
Adam Curry: Yeah. But not necessarily something that pops
up. So you don't want apps to rely on it, per se, but just as
a or or do you? I don't know, do you want to be I
Dave Jones: don't want to you don't want them to send it in
real time. Every time they do a split to try to, you know, it's
not a service that they would need to rely on to make their
split calculations. It would be a service that they would use to
validate their data. Yeah, it is. Yes. Splitting correctly.
Adam Curry: Great idea. Yeah. Split split split validator.
Dave Jones: Yeah, great. Like Nathan here. Nathan said grade
your homework. Yes. Yeah, perfect. A scratch paper yes.
Great idea. Great idea. Because one, it and it will also help
help things be more transparent too. So I can think that I'm
thinking of it this was thinking through this morning, I'm like,
okay, it could take a few different little, few different
sets of inputs, like you could give it a feed and say, Okay,
here's a feed. And if I sent if I sent 10,000 SATs to Episode 12
of this podcast, right, what would I what should happen? And
then we would say, Okay, well, here, we would read the feed, do
the CALC and split up, spit it back, then. But if you say,
Okay, well, I've already worked. But here's some XML. Here's my
XML of just a value block. Is that okay, well, we'll take
that. Here's some JSON of like, we could just take all the
different ways that people want to feed it. Yeah. And just hand
it back.
Adam Curry: That's a great idea, because it's very inconsistent
amongst all the apps.
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, I agree. And people
Adam Curry: ask me, and people ask me, I'm like, I don't know.
I don't know. I never understood it. I'm like, I get the concept.
I can't do it. It's like, I don't know. That's fine.
Dave Jones: I don't know. Yeah, go back to
Adam Curry: come in. I don't know. Yeah, that would be good.
That'd be good. Because it is documented. It's clearly
documented. But still, it's hard. It's just
Dave Jones: one of those. But he said, he read. He said, I read
the documentation. And it's mostly clear, but um, I can see
some edge cases in my mind already. And I just want to know
how to handle it.
Adam Curry: What's an edge case in his mind?
Dave Jones: I don't know. He didn't mention it. Okay.
Probably, you know, I would think probably things like that
we've run into before, like small amounts. You know, when
people are like streaming.
Adam Curry: Oh, right. Right. Right. Right. I think most
people you should issue like a poison pill on their app blows
up. five sets of minutes. Give me a break. What are you?
Dave Jones: That's where we need the sucker. The sucker to suck
all their sets out like it's a penalty. They do in the penalty
box.
Adam Curry: I do have a request, though. For for the apps. If you
if you have lit implemented. Oh, please. Oh, please. Oh, please.
Oh, please. I know. It's I know, it's not documented yet. And I
know that. It's just kind of it's Steven B's split kit web
thing. But I feel so bad when people are boosting these huge
amounts for a song. But the only two apps that I'm aware of that
do value time split in lit mode is curio caster and the split
kit. So people are sending me SATs and I and they intend them
to go to the artist.
Dave Jones: You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Well, that's
Adam Curry: because I think that's because of the WebSocket
stuff. Because the when doing a live show, I mean, the the
amount of SATs is just it supersedes everything. is just
the fact that you know, do a lit show your SATs. Just you stack
and sets man. Yeah. So I don't I mean, I know it's not official.
And I just sometimes I just forget, and let's see, oh,
people sending me stuff to fountain this not going to the
artist.
Dave Jones: I'm thinking yeah, I think through this, if we need
we need a I need a
Adam Curry: solution for this podcast. Guru apparently is
working on it. Okay. Cool.
Dave Jones: Well, maybe Steven and Jason can can figure out a,
maybe they can document a spec.
Adam Curry: Oh, that would be great.
Dave Jones: Then we can just, you know, all that and adopt the
spec. And then everybody can use it. I think that's what's going
to have to happen. You're just going to have to have a way it's
just going to have to be a separate socket. Yeah. I don't,
I can't think of any other way to do it.
Adam Curry: And then plug for for the split kit is finally now
now it all comes together. You can now record your podcast. And
I think Steven b is even he was I saw him experimenting with a
hook for Mr. List, which is the playout system. I use it he
hasn't given me anything yet. But I know he's working on it.
So now if you're a radio disc jockey and you want to do a
value for value music show, you have the split kit, and you hook
it up to get Alby. So this is that's all real, it's relatively
simple. You can build your playlist of songs, and you can
then start your show and apparently, in a not too distant
future when I hit the actual song, and I hit Play It will
then activate that value block for the for the for the remote
item for the song, you can search for all the songs in the
split kit. And then when you're done, you can you can export it
as an You got your RSS feed, you can, you know, a typical, you
can look up an existing RSS feed, and then it'll, it'll
autofill everything for you. And then it'll poop out an RSS feed
out of the back end, which has the value times plus everything
all in it good to go. All you need basically, is to replace
that on your server, have a server, put your mp3 file,
that's your that's your RSS feed. And its value for value
time split enabled everything all in it. I think I think it
might even add it to the index automatically. It's amazing.
Wow. So for for them. So for DJs who just want to do that. And I
know that Dobby Das is working on something similar at RSS
blue.com. But he I haven't seen anything. But all of a sudden,
it's like yeah, this is the tool I need. So I go in here, I can
look for all the songs. Or I hear something I write it down.
Okay, I want this song boom added to the playlist. Oh, and
then you add it to the playlist you can also download all those
songs in one go. And that right there all the mp3 is named
properly, all the tags are in it. I mean, God Almighty, just
shorten up my prep time by an hour. You're sure what I always
love.
Dave Jones: I just I just hit the endpoint for that to see how
many shows had value time split references in them. And there's
24 now wow, that's pretty big.
Adam Curry: Yeah, I don't even know. Let's see. Let's
Dave Jones: see. Well, I mean, it's going to show it's going to
be picking up stuff like us too. You know, because like
podcasting 2.0 Because we play a song. But
Adam Curry: that's but that's what that's beautiful. I want
curry in the keeper we played we played a song Putting the value
time split worked perfectly.
Dave Jones: See there's podcasts idiot by Kevin Bay. It's a mood
we know that one. Mike Newman. Button meeting music Yep. Let's
see who is the yeah Westenberg there's Yeah, Korean keeper
there's the I'm just I'm like spot checking this. I'm doing a
sanity check. The bowl after bowl. Yeah, this are Spencer.
biskra and ball. splits are stupid. I don't know what show
this.
Adam Curry: I want to hear it.
Dave Jones: It's podcast ID podcast index at 86622590.
Adam Curry: No idea. Have you heard OYSTEIN show? No. I think
he starts off by talking. I'm not sure. It's Martin and Mead
and music. Maybe. Now he starts off. I started with peace. He's
well, that's strategic. He's fun to listen to. It's fun when he
talks.
Unknown: My wish. And the next one is a guy's done with watch
the road.
Adam Curry: No, I think he said Scandinavian. Some Scandinavian
country I think
Dave Jones: okay. He's got a little Dutch
Adam Curry: little flow little is great. And he's really he's
really really mellow. He's like, okay, and the next one is he
goes up tempo song is fantastic.
Dave Jones: Let's see homegrown hits. Lightning thrashes. Yep,
yep. Yep. Phantom power music our DJ V for V.
Adam Curry: Yeah, that's dirty Jersey whore.
Dave Jones: Dirty jersey. Oh, yes. Right. Something called
help her videos. No, no, no, no. Developer weekly. I think this
may be just a regular show. It says a weekly show for
developers and technologists that are interested in
technology. I think this is just a rent a regular show that
they're adding music and don't split Nice. Before this game's
office hours. 2.0 That's Chris over at Jupiter broadcasting
this issue Blackhat music
Adam Curry: are they putting music in? Or is it remote item
to a different show?
Dave Jones: See, yeah, I think it must be remote onto a
different show. Because
Adam Curry: that's cool. I mean, this is all gonna make so much
sense.
Dave Jones: Sets and sounds. That's Kevin Bay. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Cool. So there's a bunch of stuff in here. The fairly fun
show. C'est la vie. Silas vocht. Yeah.
Adam Curry: James is show got the rolling on show.
Dave Jones: Rolling on see podcast. I don't see a rolling
on what ideas it. Podcast ideas.
Adam Curry: No, I have a GUID for you.
Dave Jones: Just Just tell me character by character. Yes.
Okay. Ready. It's curly brackets.
Adam Curry: In the signal. I think that's the thing. That's
the good.
Dave Jones: All right. I'll check it out. This is good. If
somebody notices something in this endpoint that is missing.
Tell me because it'll help me bug hunt.
Adam Curry: Yeah, this is this is. I mean, people have to
realize that this is a category of podcast that has never
existed. It just hasn't exist, you weren't able to do this.
Now, and this is what I discuss with Julian Jim as well, we are
going to have to come up with some kind of permission slip,
call it a license, whatever you want it to be. So that, I mean,
I know what's going to happen. Once we get on the radar, which
is going to be years down the line, it'll take a while. I just
know this stuff. It'll take a while. We'll get on the radar,
ASCAP, BMI is going to come knocking somewhere and say, hey,
hey, you doing a performance of a song? You owe us money? And
I'm gonna have to say no, because I gave all the money to
the artists. And they're gonna go, Hey, artists, give me the
money. Oh, wait, give me the money. So I can give back to you
or whatever. But I'm going to, we're going to there's going to
be a legal situation where I am of the opinion that a podcast is
not a performance as the performance the royalty
organizations view it, because, well, I'll take that back. If
I'm doing a live stream, and I have 30 people or 300 or 3000
listening, yes, that's a performance of a piece of work
and something has to be figured out for that. Because they have
root they there is ASCAP, BMI licenses available for streams,
but not for free for music shows. Oh, no. And they have all
kinds of rules like, well, you have to have a server log what
songs play, you can't play more than two songs from one album
Back to back or in the same hour. It's all this bullcrap
that is completely antithetical antithetical to radio. So that's
going to be an issue but i i Would I will go to court to say
because I've gotten gone to court for Creative Commons and
one but I didn't win I didn't win any money I lost money
because I've had lawyers but I won the case which is precedent
for Creative Commons. You know, I'm creating a mechanical copy.
Now I am creating a derivative work and I just need the
permission from the from the publisher and the master owner
from that, I know that it's implied by putting it up on
value for value. But we're gonna have to have some kind of
permission in the feed you know something like
Dave Jones: Okay, explain this to me because this was a giant
thread of back and forth between quite a few people on podcast
index dot social pm this PBIS podcast index social this past
week and is all about Russell from I think he's from Australia
runs a hosting platform down there. He was saying you know,
this is this is all horrible. You know, everybody's gonna get
their pants suit off. Stop now, you know and this so I mean,
there is obviously concern here um, um, look, I'm from Alabama
I'm a simple guy.
Adam Curry: Oh, you're not gonna pull the arm from Alabama but
now all of a sudden Oregon Mr. Mr. Database. Okay, simple guy
from Alabama. I put everything in one table.
Dave Jones: It's because it's because I heard Jean beans.
Lovely. North Georgia accent
Adam Curry: I heard I'd love his accent is great.
Dave Jones: So okay, well,
Adam Curry: Russell Russell's coming from I think a different
place. I don't know Russell, he kind of showed up recently I
think on piste is acronym. And I believe that he specifically
does streams for radio stations. I can't I can't I can't be
wrong. I don't think he takes radio shows with music and turns
them into podcasts I could be wrong from the stream. Now there
is a specific carve out for radio stations. If you have an
existing radio station, you can have an internet stream and and
you can pay ASCAP BMI or whatever, you know, fill in your
local performance royalty organization. And again, this
may differ per country. So I'm not sure about Australia. This
may also I think, in Australia, you may be able to have an
online radio station I don't know if that is you have to have
server logs, you have to track what you played that I know for
sure that's how all of them operate. And you have to send
that in and they're going to charge you an X amount. Some of
them give you a blanket license. You can get this from Booma
stemmer in the Netherlands, but you have to geo locate located
is all kinds of hurdles. Believe me, nowhere in the world. Is
there an actual license for doing a free form music show in
a podcast and the reason for that My opinion is because the
performing rights organizations know that they have no business
licensing that because the song is actually being incorporated.
I'm not broadcasting it, I'm putting it on a server. And I'm
allowing people to make copies of it. So that would be the same
as taking an mp3 and putting on my server and say, Hey, go
ahead, copy this, everybody. Now, it would not be ASCAP, BMI
who would come and sue me it would be the publisher, the
label the owners, the owners of the work, specifically the
master and the publisher. So in this case, I'm not putting its
new I mean, this is something no one has done before. Because you
need a lot of buy in from from different parties, and it's
never going to work with I know, because I've tried for two
decades, you're not going to get labels and publishers ever to
buy, you know, they say, Are you crazy, I want to I want to
charge 99 cents for each one of those, which of course, that
model is now dead. I also talked to Jim and Julie about that, how
much money you make from people buying a track nothing. It's all
Street. Nothing, no one's buying music anymore. It's all all you
can eat. Remind me to tell you how that's not working in
general, either of the story about that. So this and I think
the way Russell's outfit works is he has to pay 20% of any
income to the Performing Rights Organization, which is that's
quite typical. A blanket license for a radio station could be a
small percent. I think if it's a radio station, maybe it's one,
two 3% It'll differ per country. And then you can play whatever
you want. And there's still logs that are created more or less. I
mean, I used to do it back in the day I do my radio show in
Holland and after the show we'd have to sit down and write down
little ASCAP BMI logs. Here's the song here's the track here's
the pen and paper a pen and paper Oh yeah, that's that's how
we let fans in the studio. Hey, girls
Dave Jones: grab a pen
Adam Curry: give me some coffee too. While you're at it, I'm not
kidding. Because that was the worst you're hated doing that
job that was the worst part and I gotta do my list. So so the
argument can be made that I am not brought forget streaming
from home because that is the that is a specific problem. But
just doing boosted Grand Ball not live doing it. The
derivative creating derivative works from all these different
songs. There is no mechanism for that other than physical
Derivative Works copies you know, you'd have to get
permission from all those individual is lazy it's like
doing if you did a hip hop song with samples now that you have
to get permission for everybody everybody has to be you know,
there's a percentage we divvy it all up and it goes into
publishing the writing the composition and the and the
owner of the master that's that's where that all goes into
so we need some explicit permission that will need it
eventually just to cover all the bases
Dave Jones: so when you say okay I'm just trying to understand
trying to follow this this chain of reasoning here because the
like I see a sir TJ he obviously is the sole writer of of his own
let's just say he he's he wrote a song on the banjo recorded it
posted it on wave lake or excuse me on his own his blog as a
music side project. Like he's he's the sole creator and owner
of this work in every shape form and fashion there is no other
parties involved. Why Why does there and he he posts it in a
way that puts a value time split into the feed referencing his
own website. How do we why do we need permission for like, I
don't understand why other organizations have any have any
like input or voice in that at all.
Adam Curry: That is that is law. That is actual law. The
performing rights organizations have statutory legal rights to
be the only organizations that can collect money from anybody
who performs it used to be sheet music as well. But who performs
a song in the in public outside of your personal home that's why
restaurants bars even at work if you have you know you're playing
music in the in the canteen, the mess, the mess or whatever, all
of that. The you have to pay by law, you have to pay a
performing rights organization for the right to do that.
Dave Jones: So you're saying Okay, so you're saying that if
I, if I write a song, and that I can, that I cannot, that there's
that I cannot go perform that and directly get money for that
it has to be brokered by law through a performing rights
organization as a go between between the audience and me,
even if I wrote the song and there's no other stakeholders
Adam Curry: say no, say that again, just so I get That's
exactly right.
Dave Jones: So, so I write a song. And then I go and perform
that song on my podcast for and put a value time split in excuse
me put a value block in it so that people are paying me
directly to listen to that song on my live show. It's all
content that I wrote from scratch. You're saying that
that's technically not legal because I by law, and required
to go to go engage a third party Performing Rights Organization
to broker those transactions for
Adam Curry: you? You don't know if you're a member of those
performing rights organizations? Yes, technically, a license has
to if it's a live performance, not a podcast, if it's a live
stream, or any type of performance in front of multiple
people. Not a podcast that's why there's never been a license for
it because that's not their realm because you're not
performing it for multiple people all at one time.
Dave Jones: This is very this is this is so startling to me.
Yeah, you're telling me as a you know, as a because my my son my
son's band is metal band you know they when they played they
played live at multiple shows and and got a little bit of
money for it and so that was all technically illegal
Adam Curry: What do you mean he was doing live streams?
Dave Jones: Is he an absolute? No, no, he's playing he's
playing his music live at a show is
Adam Curry: well now at a show the venue has to pay for that.
Dave Jones: But he that was startling to me. Is that there?
Is that anybody? Like there's no he's never been part of a label
or any I mean, let's just there's just some guys in the
garage that wrote some songs. They're not members of anything
at all.
Adam Curry: Okay. Okay, it's even this if they were in a
venue in a coffee shop, and they play a Taylor Swift song. That
coffee shop better have a blanket license,
Dave Jones: because no no, I'm talking about they play their
own songs they wrote
Adam Curry: and they're not ASCAP BMI members. No they're
not okay then there's no promise and David's then there's no
problem. They shouldn't be ASCAP. Most most artists I mean,
it's not a big deal to become an ASCAP BMI member because if it
is played somewhere, if it does become a hit, you want to you
want that that revenue coming in.
Dave Jones: Okay, so Okay, so I was misunderstanding you. I
thought you were saying that by law, you had to be an asshat BM
No,
Adam Curry: by law the only outfits that are allowed to to
collect are at their their sanction, ASCAP, BMI and by law.
Anyone who performs music in a public setting has to pay them
by law.
Dave Jones: That doesn't mean music of a member of ASCAP BMI.
Adam Curry: Yes, yeah, exactly. So so this is why you have
groceries is a big business grocery stores other you know,
there's just a big business in non ASCAP BMI music now, it
sucks a lot of it. But yeah, you can you can buy into music
services and you don't have to pay that that money, but it's
still gonna get hassled by those guys. They're going to be
checking you all the time. Make sure that something licensed
didn't slip in that kind of stuff. It's a mess. It's
Elevator Music a good point. Hard Hat. Elevator Music is
often is you can just buy into these services. I know people
who have become pretty successful, it means that hey,
you buy it on a monthly subscription. It's much cheaper
than the ASCAP BMI, it can run into 1000s for a restaurant or a
bar.
Dave Jones: So you're going to instead like cyst, so you're
going to let me handle like the split verification stuff. I'm
just gonna let you handle this kind of stuff. Because I'm still
this is very confusing to me. I have no business even like
having really any input on this. I would just, I want you to just
tell us what to do. And we'll and we'll do it just Carry
Adam Curry: on, carry on as steady as she goes. The worst
thing we can do is have long arguments on a social network
about this because that just it's useless. I've been I've
been down this this path for 20 years. And, and that's what we
did with the podsafe Music Network. If we created our own
license outside of ASCAP BMI never got hassled, by the way,
never got hassled, specifically for podcasts. And you can do
that. You can, I mean, you can do that you can get permission,
I can go to Paul McCartney and say, I want to play this track
by the Beatles. And I don't know if I think I don't know if it's
still Michael Jackson publishing that hones the Beatles music,
but I can get a license for you know, under certain parameters
to do that. It'll just be very expensive. But ASCAP BMI does
not come into play there. There's plenty of special music
projects that have been done, where you know, for a limited
time, and then the episode has to go away after a while. Oh,
yeah, that's, that's totally possible. So I'm not too worried
about it. But it's the perception and you still want to
have your artists ASCAP, BMI, A, because you know, the song is
going to become a hit, and then it's going to be played on radio
and you want the artists to have the joy of not receiving any
money through that avenue.
Dave Jones: Agreed. Okay, so what we need so it sounds like
we need a license that can be adopted into the podcast license
tag and the feed.
Adam Curry: Yes. And it's none of none of what is in there is.
is applicable. Okay, so
Dave Jones: we need something akin to the podsafe. License,
something of that, of that ilk. Yeah.
Adam Curry: And we'll get there. We don't we don't. I'm not too
worried about it right now. But But what we don't need as long
drawn out arguments over the how we're all going to die, because
it's just not I would like to not have those anymore. Yes. No,
I used I left. I'm like, no. Okay.
Dave Jones: I've got an ISO for this, by the way. Oh, you do
from fro from the left from last week? Because I don't think you
played the asset from
Adam Curry: which, from last week,
Dave Jones: there's only one? Yeah.
Adam Curry: Hold on. Let me find it.
Dave Jones: Oh, I threw a curveball at you. Because I did
not throw you I did not shoot you any clips today. Fantastic.
Adam Curry: That one? Yeah. Yeah. Nailed it.
Dave Jones: So yeah. All right. Well, I think that that makes me
feel better. That seems like a simple a simple thing. Because
Because music side project wave Lake, they could put these in
their UIs pretty easily, like, do you want to apply this
license to your feed?
Adam Curry: Yes. And so. And there is one other thing, I'm
just going to disagree. And that's, so there's a general
idea that and there is so if you record a I looked at all the
licensing, if you record someone else's song, the published song,
someone else's work, you can indeed, you can publish that
song on an online service, and you pay an X amount of money.
It's about 50 bucks, I think, for up to 500 downloads. Now, I
don't know what kind of reporting everyone has, but I'm,
I'm gonna think that no one has that information. And if, if if
I play a licensed song that needs to have 50 bucks per 500
downloads, and then I have, you know, 10,000 people listening to
the show that that song is in somewhere, something someone's
getting screwed one way or the other. So I suggest
Dave Jones: using op three. Because if you if you go with
any of the podcasts industrial complex downloaddownload
calculations, you're gonna be you're gonna be way over a
Adam Curry: good point. I guess the I guess the point is, I'm
just I just want to stay away from it. So no, I don't think
it's a good idea. I don't think any of the Yeah. People if
people are going to want to see real stats, if you if it comes
down to that. So even if you're just putting it up on your on
your own V for V, you know, I think that's something I'm not
I'm not comfortable with. So now will it will it possibly happen
that someone record something that I have never heard of
before? And it turns out that's owned by someone else? Yeah,
that could happen. So I hope people just stay away from it.
And I've seen some stuff here and there. It's like, okay,
that's the cover I know, that saw, like, No, I'm I'm not going
to play that. Because I know that it's going to be more than
500 downloads. And yeah, you may have paid for 500. But what what
if I, you know, play this and it's 50,000 You know, so
Dave Jones: where do we go and find this? Where do we go and
get such a license written?
Adam Curry: Or we can write that ourselves? That's not that hard.
Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's not, hey, you do
database. I'll fix the license.
Dave Jones: I'll do a big table. You do big one. So
Adam Curry: big table big license. Perfect. Yeah, don't
and it's not it's not to be worried about really it isn't
because these companies performing rights organizations,
they've never been able to go after everybody because it's not
their wheelhouse. It's not a performance for a big audience.
It's a copy that is copied many times. And I'm either you either
I'm pirating your music because you didn't allow me to do it.
And I'm putting it in a in a in a like a mixtape. Or I have
permission to do it. It has nothing to do with the with
performing rights organization, but because it sounds like radio
people now like oh, it's radio, you're gonna get screwed now
freaking
Dave Jones: out. Yeah. For now.
Adam Curry: The live stuff, Jeff. Definitely a problem down
the road.
Dave Jones: Yeah. Okay. All right. Cool. Well, I mean, if we
Yeah, if we have a license, we could throw that into. We throw
that around the feed? We have a we have a tag for that. Yeah,
Adam Curry: exactly. That's, I think that's what's going to be
cool.
Dave Jones: Oscar and Bumi Oscar from fountain and Bumi from
Alby, they brought up on the GitHub aid. A desire to have the
to have a different type.
Adam Curry: Yes. For the recipient? Yes, yes. Yes, yes.
Dave Jones: And I wanted to bring this up on the show
because it needs other cause ad developers need to be aware of
this. So they currently the only type in the value recipient, the
only option for the type parameter is his lightning. And
like the lightning type expects the the destination to be can't
dress to be Kisa to be a Kison publickey. Exactly. And so they
want to have a another type. That is something something they
said you alien, your LP, but I don't, I'd rather it not be that
because that sounds like it's a full Ellen URL and
implementation which this is not. So let's call it something
like just bass
Adam Curry: Simulink. Yeah,
Dave Jones: yeah. Yeah, let's call it well, well known or
something I don't know. So the way this is basically just a tie
a different type that says, instead of the key, the, the
value, the destination address of the, of the split, being a
lightning PUBKEY. Lightning, no, PUBKEY, it's going to be a was a
URL that gets, excuse me, it's gonna be a lightning address. So
and then the lightning address will be Z keys and resolution
method. So you would have something like Dave, add get
allday.com which the app would turn into github.com/dot Well
known slash key sin slash Dave. And then in that JSON, this
resolve that way will be the destination address custom key
custom value, right. And so that's, that's the thing that
could be cached. You could you could look it up once, you know,
every, you know, so many days or, or seconds or whatever the
TTL is going to be on that. There could even be a TTL
parameter in there. And we can I can output that into that's
probably a good idea to have that. Or I can we can use the
cache header or whatever, you know, that needs to be
communicated. Somehow you cast your first certain amount of
time. That way, you're not having to do a URL address
resolution is right all the time. Anyway, I think it's fine.
It's not Ellen URL. Yeah, that'd be a nightmare. Yeah, initially,
Adam Curry: I thought it was. I thought it was a replacement. I
didn't realize they wanted optional. So I was like, my
hackles went down. And I was like, oh, it's optional. Okay.
And then they say what they want it for?
Dave Jones: Yeah, so that's in case, in case all of the case
the pub keys change. So if lb went to a different node,
infrastructure, and they required a pub key change, they
wouldn't have to go and ask everybody that uses an lb. Pub
key to update their feed. Got it? Got it. So yeah. Which which
makes sense? I think we could, if that happens, we could assist
with that
Adam Curry: by Yeah, you can do a search and replace in the
database.
Dave Jones: Yeah, we start handing out Yeah, we yeah, we
get we can we can help facilitate changes like that
there. But it's a good idea.
Adam Curry: But using it does add some overhead to apps that
want to follow that a little
Dave Jones: bit. Yes. A little bit. Okay. Yeah, but if if any
apps see a problem with that Please go to that discussion on
GitHub and give some feedback. Otherwise, we'll probably move
pretty fast with this and and throw this into the spec. And I
will be vocal about it on in the boardroom here to let everybody
know that that is happening and you need to make allowance for
that. We'll try to keep everybody apprised of it.
Because this that's a spec that rarely changes fairly, ever.
Adam Curry: But I want to thank whoever thought it was funny to
sign me up for ads from betterhelp.com. Thanks.
Dave Jones: This, this is a gift to you. Yes. Hi,
Adam Curry: Adam. I hope you're doing well today. Just wanted to
follow up on your sponsorship inquiry. Thank you for reaching
out to better help better help as a big advertiser. My name is
Sam, I work for a company called Influence logic to manage better
helps affiliate podcast partnerships. Cool. If you're
interested in discussing things further, I'd love to hear a bit
more about your show and discuss how we can work together. Please
provide a link to your show on Apple podcasts and any other
social media platforms you have. I want to ensure I'm grabbing
the right show my team and better help like to quickly
review accounts to ensure everything is brand safe before
we can proceed.
Dave Jones: Just send them a link to no agenda delegate.
We'll never hear from them again.
Adam Curry: I want to hear the rejection.
Dave Jones: Yes, I love the emails to podcast index. They
start off with Hello team. Yeah, there's no tenant.
Adam Curry: Although I'm a little insulted. YouTube, I
guess after all those those early invites, they never never
sent me a notice to come in have and give them my RSS feed.
Dave Jones: Now you're never gonna follow up. No, no. Not
surprising.
Adam Curry: I thought that they would spam all the email
addresses they had. I thought they would just you know, go
reach out to all kinds of podcasters I guess.
Dave Jones: They don't even know they have RSS. They don't they
don't know what they're doing this this this whole thing is a
joke. Well, I had a whole I had like, add like, four paragraphs
of notes to talk about YouTube and I'm just I don't even want
to do
Adam Curry: now the only thing I'll say is that supposedly
YouTube has been talking to hosting companies about
integrating you know, kind of the way Hey, remember how that
went worked with Spotify? Remember how that worked with
Facebook? That was Oh yeah. Oh, that's all those do that yeah,
that was a lot you're wasting cycles and I think YouTube wants
to take your business that's all I'll say. I think they want to
take your business
Dave Jones: not gonna argue
Adam Curry: Yeah, I mean, Spotify they want to take your
business they they literally took it and gave everyone free
stuff at a cast
Dave Jones: yet remember when you remember a couple of weeks
ago when we talked about the the inevitable discrepancy that's
going to curl calls some ripples within the advertising the
advertising podcasts industrial complex about Spotify as
streaming metrics versus the RSS download metrics Yeah, this is
about to get fun to watch because you're gonna have you're
gonna have RSS metrics showing a show with you know 25,000
downloads and and Spotify showing it with me no 700 Yeah,
this is gonna get this is gonna get fun ah,
Adam Curry: let's thank a few people. People have been
boosting throughout the entire show which we always love. And
kind of kick it off with Steven B 5000 SATs he says let Eric and
and know who's Eric and Eric in ERIC let Eric and no I'll be
recording a tutorial video to demonstrate building a music
show soon. Maybe this weekend? All right. Oh, there's arrogant.
Oh, I see. Eric. Eric and boosted before that from from
pod verse 5000 SATs You guys rock. You guys rock man.
Hopefully there can be a guide on how to do a music podcast
soon. Thanks for the inspiration. Okay, there we go.
That makes total sense. Hey citizen 6969 says go podcasting.
or head to 2112 Rush boost splits are stupid and helper
videos are peer tube channels. I set up for testing the split kit
integration for live and recorded videos configurable
Hmm. splits are stupid. All right. Okay. All right. All
right. Message received. Chad F 1000 says that if I listened to
booster Graham ball live, I have the stream playing in pod verse
and have the split kit open in the browser to boost the
artists. Yeah, that does work. That does work. But it's not as
it kind of is not as handy as we'd like it to be. Podcast
guru. Jason 2222 row of ducks. Were about to put live splits in
beta implementation has done an Android and iOS. Good. Talk
about that. Anonymous When you want to all rush boost, here's
another thing to add to the helipad To Do List auto payments
from peer tube have been going out successfully at midnight GMT
for a month now. Hmm Okay, so yeah, I mean so the auto
payments is there. Is there a tag? Is there a TLV bit that we
flipped for auto payment? I think so isn't it? I think
there's something in the in the spec for that.
Dave Jones: Yeah, there is. There's a there's three
different actions there's a boost stream and auto. Get Auto
is for automated, you know, non payments that were not initiated
by human.
Adam Curry: Okay, cool. Eric peepee so on your list 3333 I am
Mr. Robot. I always get the best clips from Dave talking about
the Bitcoin bros of noster trying to reinvent RSS love
these board meetings go podcasting. And there Sam Ceci
with his 10,000 sat boost from pod fans take three sending a
boost from pod fans. So probably two more to come. 1000 another
from Gadot Chad F Yes. Just hearing the word nasty irritates
me, says. Saints and SATs with a row of ducks 2222 anti war boost
away that was no agenda I'm sorry. You mixing the streams
across the stream didn't mean to do that didn't mean to do that.
Here's Mustapha with 100 SAT test booths got you. We got Mr.
Robot again. 2222 I hear more Bitcoin podcasts in Austin
talking about noster rather than figuring out all the advancement
in podcasting 2.0 It's quite sad and very Bitcoin Bitcoin bros.
Rinse and repeat. Yeah. Oh, it's what it is. They're all excited.
They're excited. Yeah. Other stuff. Oh, nice big row of
ducks. This is 22,222 from Mike Dell, YouTube, podcast, dumpster
fire boost go open podcasting. That's funny. 4111 from a Chris,
you know, I'd still love to make a playlist of V four v songs
that I can send to friends and family for them to listen to in
a modern podcast app is the best way to do this currently the
split kit and making my own feed for the playlist? I think so. I
think so. Or you could I mean, yeah, you
Dave Jones: say it again.
Adam Curry: Well, he says, I'd still love to make a playlist of
V four, V four v songs I can send to friends and family, for
them to listen to with a modern podcast app is the best way to
do this currently, the split kit and making my own feed for the
playlist. That's what there's a couple of ways you can do it,
really. But yeah, I think it would want I mean, you could
have Wow, you could have a feed, which is all your playlists, and
then an item could be a whole bunch of remote items. Am I
correct? Yes, you could have multiple playlists that way.
Dave Jones: Yeah. So are OPML with its Messier, it's gonna
import all the feeds as if they're separate RSS feed.
Adam Curry: I'm sure the Steven B emporium of apps will have a
playlist creator for you very soon.
Dave Jones: It's called ln playlist commerce.
Adam Curry: It's going to be that Yes. Yeah, it's gonna be
there. And it'll have the appropriate medium medium equals
music. L I think is not
Dave Jones: ln, ln mix. LLN mix.com is was gonna be Yeah,
yeah, the playlists. Yeah, that's right. The music l
Musico. Yes.
Adam Curry: E podcasts are 16,000 Love me some podcasting.
2.0 Goodness on a Friday afternoon. 16,000 SATs to mark
the 16th annual National podcast post month aka na pod Pomo. Not
on promo not pa hobo. The original November 30 Day podcast
challenge now pod pomo.org I had no idea. Nothing. Popo no Popo
no pod popo. Okay. Oh, there's Dave Jackson with 100 SATs from
pod fans. Good. That works. And there's Sam Sethi. Oh, okay. Sam
Sethi am hanging out. Pre boosting from Italy. Drinking
Barolo and truffle hunting 101010 101,010 20 is Blaze on I
am Paula and
Dave Jones: that's a man who's confident in his boost. But that
is Eric PP
Adam Curry: has like a bowler donation somehow. This isn't
good like a whole bunch of bowling balls yes very confident
man. And that comes from pod fence.
Dave Jones: Yeah, well you don't you don't throw you don't throw
out a six figure boost in boast about your wine unless you have
unless you're bold and have have confidence in your boostability
Adam Curry: Now here's what's cool is pod fans is so great. He
sent the exact same booster gram twice with the same amount of
blades only him follow We love that double booster. Double pop
fan. Double boosting we love that held
Dave Jones: the button down a little too long.
Adam Curry: I love it, man. Thank you. Dred Scott with a
15,100 Sad boost. Thank you drugged and let me see I think
that is yeah, that's what we have for the pre boosts. What do
you got on your list? Oh, we got one more. Oh, this is
interesting. This came in with literally with nothing Oh,
that's what is this? This is Bucha Oh boo CLI, okay, that
doesn't even say doesn't even say what that's for. Wow, that's
weird. Feed ID Okay, well that I don't think that was for us.
Dave Jones: Mike Dell sent us a picture that I sent to you
through
Adam Curry: the dumpster fire. I saw as funny
Dave Jones: as Dave Jackson not only sent us a boost, but he
also sent us a $50 PayPal.
Adam Curry: Oh, thanks, brother.
Dave Jones: So can I hear from the school of podcasting? Very
nice. Thank you. much appreciate it. And we got let's see Kevin
Bay, the aforementioned Kevin bay from the DJ music shows he
sent $6 And he says I missed the monthly donation from the
endowment fund because I was in Italy. Oh, are you truffle
Hunter? Yes.
Adam Curry: Sam Sethi
Dave Jones: here's September's and October's lunga Vita. Oh,
podcasting.
Adam Curry: Okay, very nice.
Dave Jones: You like my Italian?
Adam Curry: Very good. Love your eyes. Your eye Italian is rockin
and rollin
Dave Jones: Franco. Just gotta like he's fell over in his out
of his chair.
Adam Curry: Sure.
Dave Jones: Let's see yarn, Rosenstein. Send us $1. And
that's subscription. The new subscription. Thank you. Thank
you yarn. Appreciate it. And for all the people like the Israel
Israel stuff, you know, we've been talking to Brian, he's,
he's fine. He's Yeah. Okay.
Adam Curry: Yeah, he's got a little group. We've been back
and forth. He's definitely not a happy camper. But he's not
Dave Jones: happy but safe. Yeah. We got, although he did.
Adam Curry: He did post something about hive the other
day. I'm like, okay, he's doing better now.
Dave Jones: He's so my daughter. My youngest daughter. We used to
judge how good she felt by how many cinnamon rolls she could
eat. Like, if she was feeling real puny, you know, she may not
eat any or she may eat one. When she's when she's feeling like
fantastic on top of the world. I mean, she could put she this is
like she's four years old. That's fine. She could put away
for cinnamon roll. You're
Adam Curry: feeding you're feeding your four year old
cinnamon rolls. Well, I mean, it's Alabama. Yeah, I get it's
Alabama. Okay,
Dave Jones: yeah, we gotta get diabetes started. So like this,
this is how you judge whether bronze okay. Is how many
mentions? Yes, yes. Oh, he's good. He's doing okay. Sir Libra
from lightning thrashes in us 3333 podcast index. I heard it
on a podcast. Yeah. Yeah. That was thrilled to get this artist
in touch with blueberry. It's great. I underwritten dot media.
Okay,
Adam Curry: I have not heard back.
Dave Jones: See, we got Lightning tng store. Oh, that
Sam means. Hello, Sam. Send us 1234 through fountain nice. Give
some emoji some lightning love. Karen for the mere mortals
podcast. 2222 through fountain he says V for V RSS and BTC are
all I need love.
Adam Curry: He's a poet. He's a poet, ladies and gentlemen.
Dave Jones: That's gonna be some lyrics to it's BTC and V for the
euro Allah need. Yeah. Okay. ASCAP. BMI would never come to
demand money for songs that arrive
Adam Curry: loose are probably not
Dave Jones: anonymous. 5000 says through podcast index. Is it
really fair to say big tech returns no value to creators. I
see lots of self described non techie YouTubers in the how to
DIY category upgrading tools, shops, even quitting their day
jobs. Hate to defend big tech. But there is value in making
something so easy that a caveman can do it.
Adam Curry: Oh, sure. Have you seen the same people when the
algo screws them or when they get demonetized or D platformed?
How sad they are after they've quit their day job.
Dave Jones: I don't think anybody ever said I don't think
we said that big tech returns no value to creators. I think what
we're saying I echo James James's thing that he said big
tech lets you keep a little bit of the value of from the content
that you made. That's right.
Adam Curry: That's give us all your creativity. And here's
nothing maybe a pittance.
Dave Jones: Yeah, you give us all the value there. You let us
monetize your show. And if you monetize it enough, we'll let
you keep a little bit.
Adam Curry: I mean, here's the difference. This is big tech.
And this is us. Which one do you want to be a part of? You tell
me
Dave Jones: the mozzie 3333 Through fountain nice says glad
to hear the update from the discussion with the guys at wave
Lake. Yep, good discussion. Oh, Adam curry 1500 says boosting
into the chapters unless you
Adam Curry: Yeah, that was my test. Yes, I did. Yeah, it's
self boosting. It feels good.
Dave Jones: Kevin Bay 20,000 SATs through partners got my
first two booster grams on my music show sets and sounds. So
I'm paying it forward. It wouldn't be possible without
that magic wallet switching technology. Yoo hoo.
Adam Curry: Nice. Oh, cool. Kevin.
Dave Jones: Blown Yank. Okay. This is a new loan. Yeah. 22 To
22 Big Rolodex, he says, Thanks for everything you guys do. I
listen to all my podcasts while I'm driving. So podcast addict
is my go to is their Android Auto app is great, but no
boosting. I'm sure some would consider it unsafe. But if these
app developers could build out more Android Auto apps,
particularly with boosting I'd be a happy guy and we'd be
boosting a lot more in the morning and KTL D Yes.
Adam Curry: Virginia. Yes. I recognize the name. Pod verse
just added Android Auto give that a whirl?
Dave Jones: Yeah, yep. 33 over 10 1234567 sets true. Shot kala
20 is Blaze on am Paula has a good story. Through breeze so
I'm sure the the bat signal the red lights started spinning in
Roy's basement. When this boost went out, Adam and Dave 2.0
rocks advertising don't work up talking works. This is 3131 ish
percent of the 4 million says that JCD refused.
Adam Curry: That's right. He emailed me he said Hey man, can
I can I send you 4 million SATs? I'm like brother I would love it
but you know this has failed so miserably. You know, the was the
company I was working with. They index the the ibex never got it
together with the keys and then they just they couldn't get it
together. And then they switched and we had to get an account
with Swan Bitcoin. And in Texas I can't have a Bitcoin to fiat
account. That is that is with Swan because one doesn't have a
license currently in Texas for some reason. Oh, no. Oh, yeah.
So all kinds of stuff like that. And then and then me what we did
get from our no agenda was so it was like, I think we got maybe
in a course of a month, maybe eight donations. And then and
then it just went away. Cool. Yeah. No, it's not cool. It's
not so. But so you know, I mean, when you boost no agenda, it
goes to a whole bunch of other people. Artists, it goes to Dred
Scott. It goes to Jeff Smith. I mean, it goes to a whole bunch
of places. So you are helping podcasting 2.0 When you boost no
agenda, it just doesn't help no agenda.
Dave Jones: It just doesn't go to you know, doesn't No, it
doesn't.
Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly. I'm getting in the mood for our
YouTube show.
Dave Jones: Comic Strip blogger, the diameter limiter 3015.
Through fountain he says, howdy, David. Adam. Please invite your
listeners to visit my cartoon blog at www dot CSB dot lol and
ask your listeners to follow me on Twitter slash x at at CSB.
Just three letters C, S and B. Then I'll follow back and answer
all questions. Yo C. Comic Strip, comic strip,
Unknown: comic strip, comics, comic strip comics jam comic
strip,
Adam Curry: probably one of the oldest jingles I have.
Dave Jones: We got let's see, we get some monthlies. We get a
few. We get Trevor zener. $5. We can't wait we only have we only
have to Jeremy Garrett's $5 The one that I thought was a third
was actually a cancel subscription for 11.
Adam Curry: Oops. Okay, we got to we got to we got to Alright,
that's it. Those are the two Okay, that's it. Yeah. Got it.
All right, nothing on the tally coin but thank you all very much
for supporting podcast, podcasting. 2.0 supporting the
index opponent supporting the podcast supporting the work
supporting the machines, supporting the tables.
Everything that we do here and you can go to podcast index.org
At the bottom of that page you can find two red buttons one for
your Fiat fun coupons. We obviously accept Paypal, you can
click on that the other one is for tally coin, which if you if
you have some bitcoin, it's one of those things like hey, you
can send an on chain Bitcoin, big amounts, whatever you want.
And it doesn't really happen dribs and drabs got SALLY Oh,
tell the hotel the hotel you but we prefer that you get a modern
podcast, our podcast abs.com and boost boost away we really
appreciate it his value for value everything we have goes
right back into the project and we real and it keeps us running
in case everyone falls down and we go into some horror The only
thing we're not well I guess we have all the stats stay on the
node but if we get hyperinflation then the Pay Pal
money's not going to matter. So hopefully the Bitcoin will will
will be our saving grace when we hit third lindo
Dave Jones: does take Bitcoin. Oh, yeah. That's cool. They
don't take my name, but we can.
Adam Curry: Yeah, we can lose some SATs in the submarine swap.
Dave Jones: Daniel J. Lewis said CSB blocked me on Twitter. Well,
that's the boost was alive.
Adam Curry: What? Why would he do that? That doesn't sound like
comic strip blogger. He doesn't block people. You blocked me.
Don't block me. All right. Anything else? Board meeting? I
got through my list. I have the the music industry stuff I can
tell. Talk about that on the next next show.
Dave Jones: Yeah, I got I got two things on my list that that
I want to talk about next show we can look at punt.
Adam Curry: Okay. Well, thank you very much, everyone who's
been listening. Thank you for your live attendance at the
board meeting there in the chat room. We appreciate everyone
boosting in live and of course thank everybody who has been a
part of this magical project. You know who you are. Thank you
for being here for the board meeting. Have a great weekend
everybody. We'll be back next Friday with another episode and
edition of the podcasting 2.0 board meeting. See you then. Bye
bye everybody.
Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast
index.org for more information. Cool, fantastic.