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podcasting 2.0 for November
27 2020, Episode Number 13 and

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we've got Fire in the hole.

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What does that mean?

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I don't know.

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The whole the whole is a fire.
You know, it's like, I figured

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somehow I'd want to tease that
we have a fiery guest or

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something like that. I don't
know. Usually I come up with the

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the episode titles after the
show. I'd like to stretch my

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brain a little bit. try and do
them beforehand. And now ladies

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and gentlemen, the man who beat
the road Oh, riding the

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lightning.

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Nice.

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This is this is unlucky. This is
unlucky episode.

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Why? Why is it

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13?

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Oh, no, no, it's gonna be super
lucky for us. My machine's gonna

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keep working. It's not going to
crap out.

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Mm hmm.

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Which was yesterday morning, I
had to do the no agenda show.

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And my Surface Pro six, which I
like very much has been not only

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does the studio stuff, it kept
going into some reboot loop but

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a really ugly one where it
decides to show some, like a

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little text at the bottom of the
screen and kind of like a

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magnified fuzzy font. You know,
you know,

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that is the windows way.

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You know, when that happens, you
know, you're at low level

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windows shit, right? They're
like, Oh, God,

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the old dos is talking to me.
Anyway,

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so yeah, the went the windows
way is to tell you that there's

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lots of things wrong, but then
not actually do anything to fix

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it. So right, you have to go in
there yourself and manually run.

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Check disk. Yes. Even though
that would be super easy for

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Windows to run itself. Me.
Linux, Linux says, oh, add some

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Roman file system. I'll run
fsck. But Windows is like, hey,

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there's something wrong with the
file system. Good luck.

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Yeah. Well, then I really
appreciate it. And hopefully, it

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was, I think, I think it is I
think that internal drive it

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wasn't it once I filled it all
the way up with an audio

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recording by mistake, selected
the wrong, the wrong drive. And,

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and you know, you know what
happens when your drive runs out

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of space? That's fun. It's like,
machine starts you know, Windows

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Start floating. I mean, that
maybe that made some bad

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sectors. Is that possible?

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I mean, yeah, well, it's, you're
in the land of the unknown. Once

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you run out of space. You have
no idea

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why am I even asking? reminder
if you're listening to us on the

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Sphinx chat app, crank up those
value sliders please you stingy

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bitches crank it up.

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He goes all the way to goes to

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100. And now just say what is
Bitcoin now we dip below 17,000.

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So yeah, you need to you need to
peg that stuff. For the value

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about it. Yeah, I

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bought I bought three or four
bitcoins yesterday, just to make

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sure we're buying the dip.

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Man I've been held deep in while
I set up a lightning node for

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podcasting. Next, you know, I
know what I want, which is on

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voltage.io, which is fantastic.
You know, you literally can only

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set it up and then you can just
get your credentials and you

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have to manage everything
remotely, which is the way it

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should be anacharis, macaroons,
exactly. So there's this and I

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upgraded my own node to was it
raspy Blitz one dot six dot one,

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which is another harrowing
experience where you where you

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literally have to burn a, a, an
SD card and SD card. Yeah, you

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burn the SD card. You take the
old one out, you put the new one

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in, and then magically,
everything reappears. But it

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doesn't reappear right away.
There's this staff install

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process, which Luckily, you can
monitor, they give you a little

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instruction like oh, tail minus
n, you know, 1000 minus F. And

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here's your log file, so you can
watch it that finally all work.

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So that gave me Thunder hub. I'm
getting to a point here. Thunder

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hub is this reporting software,
which has promised Eric our back

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office, our partner in back
office, I promised him start

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running reports, you know,
because it's, I mean, really in

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the fees and the 1% split that
we received from the podcasts on

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the index note, it's may be 15
bucks or something. It's quite

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low, but it's going at once, you
know, once a Toshi wants to

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Toshi a minute. So it's still
incredible. And

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Nick wolf has a stacking,

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that's totally stacking. So I
run the report, and I can run it

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on my own node fine, but every
single time and I'm just trying

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to run Nov, receive payments,
and it won't do it. And so I hop

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on with Graham from voltage and
I guess he knows the thunder hub

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guys. So now we're like
telephone, down the line. He

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says Do you know how many
transactions you have? So yeah,

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I can get that number. Let me
see. I said 9800, the thunder

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hub guys went, Oh, you broke our
software, we have to completely

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retool, there's no way we can,
we have to do something

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different with timeouts. And
under the hood, there has to be

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a whole new upgrade just to
handle the amount of

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transactions we have.

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The the amount of software that
you break, you're breaking on a

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weekly basis

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is incredible. I'm just like a
bull in a china shop, man.

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You're the you're like the QA
guys. wet dream. You break break

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stuff, you don't mean like you
broke your breaking stuff, two

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levels down the chain. I know.

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Well, I love it.

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I didn't break it. By myself.
You know, the concept means this

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proves that what we're doing is
truly on the cutting edge.

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Because I guess no one ever
expected anybody to have, you

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know, almost 10,000 transactions
in a month. That would be crazy.

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But when you think about

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it, what's gonna get really
great is when we break all of

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lightning all and

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I'm a little concerned, I have
to be honest. I'm seeing I'm

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reading about some limitations
here and there. So a little

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worried

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about that.

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It'll be a dynamite dynamite
ride for sure. We'll see where

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it ends. But this is a
podcasting 2.0 meeting of the

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Board. As I said earlier for
November 2017. Had a good

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Thanksgiving Day.

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Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we had to
have some dinner and chilled out

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it was good and extended

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family or just your own family.

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We went to my parents house for
for a little while and ate with

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mashed up in and all this stuff.
So

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Oh, you messed up indoors. Yeah,
yeah. Well, they're probably in

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the risk group, I guess.

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Yeah. My dad, my dad's in the
70s. And so we're, we're trying

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to be careful for everybody
involved. And yeah, and you

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know, cuz I had it and it's,
it's clearly touched me. So I'm

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just trying to Yeah, to keep
everybody safe.

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Yes, indeed. And you survived.
So nice. I did. I'm

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glad I came

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out stronger than before. I
could not

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imagine how many forms would
have to fill out. It'd be so

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annoying.

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I did not come out stronger than
before the scrape currently

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drinking tea does in the coffee.

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Yeah, no, it takes a while. For
recuperation is not just two

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weeks, it can last a bit. It can
linger.

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Whatever.

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Um, before we get to our guest
today. Do we have any open

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things we need to discuss other
than maybe I would like to start

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off about that. And thank you,
and comic strip blogger and

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drunk Plato, and anyone else who
helped create the apps page,

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which is starting to look really
good. And we have a URL for that

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new podcast? app.com. You know,
spread that around. Because you

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look at this page, like holy
crap. There's a lot going on

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with this podcasting. 2.0 It
looks really nice. It's full,

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full

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idea. Yeah,

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it's cool. It's very exciting.
And you know, pretty soon we're

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gonna have to add podcasts that
are completely compliant. And

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we'll have to have a badge.
badge, we need a badge that

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people can put on their on their
podcast sites, podcast.

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I've heard it referred to as a
pill, like a pill bag or

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something like that. Well, we
need one of one of those things,

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whatever

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it does, it has to link back to
us. Do you remember the top five

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of the internet way back when it
was like you're in the top five

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of the internet and then people
would get you know, get these

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was like top 100 or something.
But you could get it you can get

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a top 10 or top five. And this
is back. Just as the web is

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coming out. We're still using
mosaic browsers browsers, no

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Netscape. And, and everyone was
so you know, it was kind of

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like, oh, we're officially one
of the top 100 websites Reebok

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my client, I'm like, Okay, I
guess like we want it on our

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own. We want it on our site, we
want to display that it was just

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some dude who just set up some
some website. And he gave

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everyone this code and everyone
was in the top hundred,

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essentially. And it all, you
know, loop back to his, his his

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website,

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it's the top 40 under 40. Yeah,
whatever that. whatever that

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thing is called is like, yeah,
pay me to be in this book,

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one of the top 40 Well, then
I'll get to that in a second.

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Okay. What else? We you've been
close. Here's what I think

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you've been doing. I know you've
been coding stuff. I know you've

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been re writing things and
probably making things more

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efficient. That's under the
hood. And then on the surface,

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you've probably done some more
cleaning up of namespace stuff

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if I'm guessing, right?

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Yeah, I'm continuing to bounce
between between three like three

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different repos, essentially. So
we're at the main podcast index

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stuff, just adding feed, you
know, adding features and Keep

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doing some aggregator stuff. And
then some some new feature

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stuff, I keep kind of ping pong
back and forth between that

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because the aggregator needs, it
needs constant care, some kind

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of pull, you know, doing that
stuff all the time, that's

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always sort of background
radiation, and then added some

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features, with the new tags and
such. And then I'll bounce over

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to the namespace repo and try to
clean that up. And also, I

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actually had a meeting and we
talked about this. A little bit

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later, I had a meeting, phone
meeting with the guys from pod

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chaser, about about the person
tag, and how to try to get some

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movement momentum on that
nicely. Yeah. And then you're

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gonna

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be you're gonna be interviewed
for this, I think. No, no, no, I

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thought you'd want to do an
interview soon.

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Oh, no. Well, that's, that's
gonna be on Frederick Norman's

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show. He's the guy that made the
podcast, the captors app for

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Mac. Ah, so that's something
different. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

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He's gonna have, we're gonna
have a chit chat. Mm hmm. But

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then also just working on the,
on the website on the apps page

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and stuff. I've been doing that
a little bit. So I'm just kind

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of bouncing around all over.
It's a little. It's a little

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00:11:16,410 --> 00:11:18,600
schizophrenia. At times. I feel
like I need to take that

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00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,270
medicine where we're at night
where you hear the voices or

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whatever.

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I don't think you really want to
be taken that man No, I don't

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want to

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00:11:27,510 --> 00:11:32,700
complete things. But it's just
bouncing. A lot of bounce. And I

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00:11:32,700 --> 00:11:37,050
never feel like I'm actually
getting very far on any one

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thing. But then I look back and
I made some progress.

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Yeah, I've been I've been
successfully publishing with the

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new tags haven't gotten a lot of
uptake on the community

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chapters. I've only to be fair,
I only asked for it once, like a

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00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,090
week ago on no agenda. And I did
have some people drop by and I

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guess they took the effort to
get the hyper catcher app and

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00:12:00,450 --> 00:12:06,540
then set a couple of a couple of
chapter markers. But nothing so

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far on the one from from
yesterday. So happy to see I

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00:12:10,170 --> 00:12:12,960
that's why I need the badge.
Man. I needed to say podcasting

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2.0 compliant, sort of sort of

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a badge. You don't know.

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Yes. No badge like

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00:12:18,269 --> 00:12:21,029
you know what to do. That's just
that's just a that's just a

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00:12:21,029 --> 00:12:24,269
crappy 1.0 podcast, so I can't
do anything with it.

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Now you also did some work on on
a really cool search.

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00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:34,260
Yeah, yeah. The really cool I
did. I made what I thought was a

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really cool search. And then
James Cridland told me all about

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the ways that it's not

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the Australian peat in your
cornflakes?

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00:12:43,620 --> 00:12:48,090
No, nice. He was, he had a good
point, which so I made a person

225
00:12:48,090 --> 00:12:51,300
search. People search or
whatever you want to call it.

226
00:12:51,330 --> 00:12:55,590
Yeah. And, you know, but he made
a good point. He said, Well, you

227
00:12:55,590 --> 00:12:58,770
know, until we get the person
tag finalized and get get a lot

228
00:12:58,770 --> 00:13:03,000
of person tags out there. You
know, this might work. But once

229
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:08,070
you this also may delay the
adoption of the tags, you know,

230
00:13:08,670 --> 00:13:12,060
so I think he's right. And it
gives people a reason, if you're

231
00:13:12,060 --> 00:13:15,240
doing these searches already, it
gives people reason to, to not

232
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,300
feel like they have to do it.
Well, that works. But no, but

233
00:13:18,300 --> 00:13:21,990
he's right. So I think I mean,
I'm gonna leave it there for

234
00:13:21,990 --> 00:13:25,830
now. And it'll, you know, it
worked. But then once the person

235
00:13:25,830 --> 00:13:29,790
tag in, like, officially
launches, I'm sorry, I'm

236
00:13:29,790 --> 00:13:32,550
still raising my hand hoping I
can turn that from person to

237
00:13:32,550 --> 00:13:34,710
credits, but I don't think I'm
gonna get anywhere.

238
00:13:36,900 --> 00:13:39,150
I don't know. I don't know.
Maybe we can ask,

239
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,670
or is that a separate? Is that a
separate tag?

240
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:43,860
A lot of hope not.

241
00:13:46,620 --> 00:13:49,320
It's this one's been hard
enough. I don't Oh, it's not a

242
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:50,010
separate tag.

243
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:58,740
I was talking to Roy from
breeze, the breeze wallet. And

244
00:13:58,740 --> 00:14:01,440
he wants to know if there was an
end point, which I I'm pretty

245
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:08,490
sure there isn't. But if one can
be created, that outputs feeds

246
00:14:08,490 --> 00:14:13,380
that have or Yeah, returns IDs,
I guess podcasts? Are these

247
00:14:13,740 --> 00:14:15,960
feeds that have the value block.

248
00:14:17,010 --> 00:14:18,090
Like the only the

249
00:14:18,450 --> 00:14:20,760
only the only the feeds that
have the value block?

250
00:14:20,970 --> 00:14:24,510
Oh, yeah, that's easy. That's
that's 15 minutes of which,

251
00:14:24,510 --> 00:14:28,500
which then led me to think,
wouldn't that perhaps be a way

252
00:14:28,500 --> 00:14:34,530
to showcase the namespace on the
apps page, if we had we could

253
00:14:34,530 --> 00:14:39,840
surface podcasts, maybe even
next to each piece of

254
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,270
functionality. You know what I'm
what I'm getting at what I'm

255
00:14:42,270 --> 00:14:45,810
getting at, I'd love to see some
other podcasts who do chapters

256
00:14:45,810 --> 00:14:49,890
who do transcripts who have
clips, just you know, just to

257
00:14:50,130 --> 00:14:54,600
fool around and see what it's
like and maybe get some ideas.

258
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:55,320
The same

259
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,720
thing, essentially the same
thing as the apps page, but just

260
00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:02,190
for fades. Bingo. That's it.
Hear the fades that the support

261
00:15:02,190 --> 00:15:04,530
locked transcript. You know,

262
00:15:04,530 --> 00:15:08,670
we'll call it we'll call it the
podcasting. 2.0 certified page

263
00:15:08,699 --> 00:15:10,559
certified certified. Yes.

264
00:15:12,780 --> 00:15:13,920
Okay, a bag.

265
00:15:14,850 --> 00:15:18,120
Maybe you're certified and you
can get your badge right there.

266
00:15:18,180 --> 00:15:18,660
Yes.

267
00:15:19,020 --> 00:15:19,470
I like it.

268
00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:23,130
Maybe some code so anybody can
copy the badge. Print your own

269
00:15:23,130 --> 00:15:26,880
certificate and stick it on your
wall. It's almost like Archer

270
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:31,290
Daniels Midland prize. No, wait,
what does that what does the guy

271
00:15:31,290 --> 00:15:32,430
always do the cars?

272
00:15:33,450 --> 00:15:34,560
cars? Yeah,

273
00:15:34,559 --> 00:15:35,999
they always give the

274
00:15:36,540 --> 00:15:39,450
Oh yeah, the JD Power JD Power
award.

275
00:15:40,350 --> 00:15:43,350
Which is like the biggest. Like
you can buy that? I think.

276
00:15:43,710 --> 00:15:48,090
Yes. I think a JD Power award at
top secret. You can buy ours

277
00:15:48,090 --> 00:15:53,190
too. If you want. If you want to
get podcasting 2.0 certified,

278
00:15:53,250 --> 00:15:56,040
but not actually do anything.
There you go take your money.

279
00:15:56,070 --> 00:15:58,140
We'll take your money. We'll
take your SATs. Exactly.

280
00:15:58,140 --> 00:16:01,980
Yeah. Well, someone who I think
is pretty much completely

281
00:16:02,010 --> 00:16:07,140
podcasting. 2.0 certified Austin
Redis. resident and I'm pretty

282
00:16:07,140 --> 00:16:11,280
sure he calls himself the CEO of
fireside Mr. five by five Dan

283
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:12,000
Benjamin.

284
00:16:13,830 --> 00:16:15,750
Hey, guys, thanks so much for me
on.

285
00:16:15,809 --> 00:16:16,799
Hey, Dan, how you doing

286
00:16:16,799 --> 00:16:20,609
man? doing really good. You
know, it's a little rainy here

287
00:16:20,609 --> 00:16:23,399
in Austin, but I can't complain
about it. I'm actually coming to

288
00:16:23,399 --> 00:16:26,249
you live and direct from my
garage instead of my little

289
00:16:26,249 --> 00:16:26,819
studio.

290
00:16:27,299 --> 00:16:28,799
Sounds fantastic.

291
00:16:29,309 --> 00:16:33,149
Well, that's all that's all you
That's all? Yeah. Well, you're

292
00:16:33,149 --> 00:16:37,109
processing. It's the amazing,
you know, app posts a few doing

293
00:16:37,109 --> 00:16:38,309
post to make me sound better.

294
00:16:38,370 --> 00:16:41,640
I don't do crap in posts.
There's no posts, ever.

295
00:16:42,150 --> 00:16:46,380
I refuse. Dan, we call this the
board meeting. Because the only

296
00:16:46,650 --> 00:16:48,570
the only time we talk, we talk
well, thank

297
00:16:48,570 --> 00:16:51,000
thank you for allowing me to sit
and I appreciate that.

298
00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:54,300
Well, I'm wondering what you
will I mean, do you? Do you call

299
00:16:54,300 --> 00:17:04,170
it are you like the, like the
corporate lawyer or? My dad says

300
00:17:04,170 --> 00:17:06,840
that a consultant is somebody
did you hand your watch to so

301
00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:07,830
they can tell you what time it
is?

302
00:17:09,660 --> 00:17:13,410
I would say Dan is an assessor
at the at the board meeting, you

303
00:17:13,410 --> 00:17:16,560
know, we like sesor. Yes, you
assess you assess what's going

304
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:17,310
on that day,

305
00:17:17,309 --> 00:17:21,329
I did, I did want to chime in at
about about the the person tag

306
00:17:22,379 --> 00:17:26,309
or credits tag as you as you
prefer. The one hesitation I've

307
00:17:26,309 --> 00:17:29,219
heard from people about it is
that, although it's optional,

308
00:17:29,219 --> 00:17:32,819
you include an AI and you should
include the email, see the

309
00:17:32,819 --> 00:17:37,499
email, part of that tag. And
there are a lot of people who

310
00:17:37,499 --> 00:17:39,719
had said, Well, I don't want my
email address showing up in

311
00:17:39,719 --> 00:17:42,689
there because it's it's in a
public feed, which of course is

312
00:17:42,689 --> 00:17:46,559
breakable, which means your
email address is now exposed in

313
00:17:46,559 --> 00:17:50,099
a horrible way. But whose isn't?
But I think that's the one thing

314
00:17:50,099 --> 00:17:53,549
about it. So when I, when I
implemented the tag, I

315
00:17:53,549 --> 00:17:58,679
implemented it and just left the
email field blank. But that

316
00:17:58,679 --> 00:18:01,919
seems counterproductive. Like it
should be in their eyes. So

317
00:18:01,949 --> 00:18:03,149
maybe, you know, you have to
have an

318
00:18:04,350 --> 00:18:08,850
interesting so. So I hadn't even
thought about the email part of

319
00:18:08,850 --> 00:18:13,080
it. And as far as I know, it's
only been kind of discussed as a

320
00:18:13,830 --> 00:18:16,380
think just as a way to search
more accurately.

321
00:18:16,409 --> 00:18:18,959
Well, it's a much better way to
search via email address, then

322
00:18:18,989 --> 00:18:23,099
then via a name. You know, but
so i i think it needs to be

323
00:18:23,099 --> 00:18:26,219
there. But I don't know if that
means we encourage people to use

324
00:18:26,219 --> 00:18:27,749
an alternate email or well

325
00:18:27,750 --> 00:18:31,920
see, this is this is Dave, pay
attention because here comes the

326
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:38,640
short, surefire way to identify
someone is put their name and

327
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,990
their node ID their public key,
that's what you need. And then

328
00:18:42,990 --> 00:18:45,360
you can call it a credit. You
know, I don't care call it

329
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:48,030
people as long as that's the
identifier everybody has is

330
00:18:48,030 --> 00:18:49,320
identified by a node.

331
00:18:50,250 --> 00:18:56,760
That is the person the person
tag. Is that that doesn't have

332
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:57,930
an email listed in it though.

333
00:18:57,959 --> 00:19:03,239
Well, Dan says it on your, on
your GitHub page implemented in

334
00:19:04,260 --> 00:19:05,220
Kershaw that

335
00:19:05,550 --> 00:19:10,320
it has it has a it has a URL and
it has an email in there if I if

336
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:11,850
I'm remembering correctly, but
you

337
00:19:13,140 --> 00:19:16,500
don't say that may have them it
will see your but you're in

338
00:19:16,530 --> 00:19:21,870
you're in the realm now. Dan of
of unfine alized tags here.

339
00:19:21,870 --> 00:19:22,140
Yeah,

340
00:19:22,170 --> 00:19:24,240
I know you're right on the edge.

341
00:19:25,619 --> 00:19:26,249
code base.

342
00:19:27,060 --> 00:19:30,960
Yeah, that's always a it's it's
dangerous to use my finalized

343
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,650
code. So your way out.

344
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,030
Thanks for the warning now.
Yeah, no, I mean, I'm trying to

345
00:19:39,030 --> 00:19:42,000
keep up with you guys. I def I
implemented everything in 1.0.

346
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,900
And I've implemented some of
this stuff in the or the phase,

347
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,170
the first phase and the second
phase. I'm trying to keep up

348
00:19:49,860 --> 00:19:51,300
with what y'all are doing but

349
00:19:51,660 --> 00:19:54,300
yeah, sorry for the sorry for
the for the breakneck speed on

350
00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:55,050
that kind of stuff. But

351
00:19:55,050 --> 00:19:57,960
no, I love it. I get it and
keeps me on my toes a little bit

352
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,260
and like the chapters with the
separate Separate JSON file that

353
00:20:01,260 --> 00:20:04,800
was fun. I like that you're
using all these good standards

354
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,560
out there, it makes me happy,
and it's easy to implement. So

355
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,260
far the stuff that you've done
has been like really cool and

356
00:20:10,260 --> 00:20:12,540
really, really good to
implement. So, you know,

357
00:20:12,570 --> 00:20:15,210
when when you're deciding what
to implement on that kind of

358
00:20:15,210 --> 00:20:20,280
thing. I feel like, you know,
it's really, here's the way I

359
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:24,090
see the landscape. And you tell
me, what you think about this is

360
00:20:24,090 --> 00:20:27,780
that there's, you know, you have
these mega large hosting

361
00:20:27,780 --> 00:20:31,980
companies, who they're just, you
know, a lot of that they're on

362
00:20:31,980 --> 00:20:35,220
autopilot most of the time. And
then, you know, you have

363
00:20:35,220 --> 00:20:40,980
smaller, hungry, hosting
companies like fireside that are

364
00:20:40,980 --> 00:20:45,300
trying to, you know, the all the
all of these sorts of things

365
00:20:45,330 --> 00:20:48,450
that can innovate and move
podcasting forward. I mean, for

366
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:53,370
for a company, the size of
fireside, it seems like, that's

367
00:20:53,370 --> 00:20:57,960
just a, you know, a way to to
innovate and differentiate,

368
00:20:57,990 --> 00:21:01,950
differentiate yourself and help
your customers. Whereas somebody

369
00:21:01,950 --> 00:21:03,960
like me, you know, like a
Lipson, or something like that

370
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,780
this or an anchor this
humongous, they probably don't

371
00:21:06,780 --> 00:21:11,820
feel the same. You need to
innovate at a rate, like a

372
00:21:11,820 --> 00:21:14,730
fireside does that. Is that fair
to say?

373
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,380
I mean, the part about firesides
definitely true. You know, the

374
00:21:19,380 --> 00:21:25,320
thing for me, is, we're very
much trying all the time. You

375
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,810
know, the important thing, just
to add to what you said is it

376
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,780
for us anyway, it's not always
to be first in coming out with

377
00:21:30,780 --> 00:21:33,000
something, although that's kind
of cool. Like being able to say

378
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,120
we're the first implement
something that's cool. But so

379
00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:38,550
many of the tags that you guys
are creating, and so much of

380
00:21:38,550 --> 00:21:42,330
what I love about what you guys
have built is that it's focused

381
00:21:42,330 --> 00:21:44,880
on the community. It's focused
on the podcast and community.

382
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,570
And that's what I really care
about. Because like, you know, I

383
00:21:48,570 --> 00:21:55,200
started podcasting in 2006. And
I went full time in 2008. And so

384
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,070
like, this is community I
really, truly care about. And so

385
00:21:59,070 --> 00:22:02,190
anything that I do in fireside,
it's always, my first thought

386
00:22:02,190 --> 00:22:06,510
is, how is this moving things
forward in a positive way? How

387
00:22:06,510 --> 00:22:09,360
are we doing something and or
whatever, when we implement a

388
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:13,440
feature? I want it to be because
that feature makes sense for

389
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,070
podcasting. And that's obviously
what you guys are doing. And so,

390
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,550
yeah, I think it's easy for you
know, you mentioned libsyn, for

391
00:22:20,550 --> 00:22:24,450
them to kind of say what, like,
we're we're chugging along and

392
00:22:24,570 --> 00:22:28,470
we get people from switching
from libsyn, or anchor all the

393
00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:29,490
time all the time.

394
00:22:29,550 --> 00:22:31,710
I'm hearing a lot about this,
Dan, if you don't mind me

395
00:22:31,710 --> 00:22:32,340
asking, yeah,

396
00:22:32,340 --> 00:22:32,880
of course, is

397
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,600
this a current trend? Or is it
just because we happen to be in

398
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,090
kind of in the middle of things
that we see it more, because it

399
00:22:39,090 --> 00:22:43,050
just feels like I'm hearing more
people say, Oh, I'm just gonna,

400
00:22:43,110 --> 00:22:46,320
you know, switch? Seems like
people are pretty cavalier about

401
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:46,650
that.

402
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,580
Yeah, I agree with you. You're
right. And I think I think the

403
00:22:50,580 --> 00:22:54,000
driving factor for it is that
once people start to realize

404
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,060
that there are other things out
there, they're, they're ready to

405
00:22:57,060 --> 00:23:00,540
explore, they're ready to try
things out. And they're ready to

406
00:23:00,540 --> 00:23:05,670
experiment. And I think, you
know, the company like libsyn,

407
00:23:05,700 --> 00:23:08,070
they don't have to do anything.
But what they're doing, they

408
00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:10,800
don't have to redesign their
interface to look cool. They've

409
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,410
got enough customers who are
just there, they have their

410
00:23:13,410 --> 00:23:15,660
routine, they have their system,
they check in, they upload,

411
00:23:15,660 --> 00:23:21,030
they're out. And my goal was
always to try and provide more

412
00:23:21,030 --> 00:23:24,210
to make it easier for people to
podcasts. Like I'm trying to

413
00:23:24,210 --> 00:23:30,300
build a tool that you want to
use that is easy to use, that

414
00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:33,480
gets out of your way, but that
there are tons and tons of

415
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,120
features so that if you're a
pro, you can come in and you're

416
00:23:36,120 --> 00:23:38,490
like, Oh, cool. There's chapters
right here, I don't need a

417
00:23:38,490 --> 00:23:42,150
separate app to embed chapters,
or there's this recording notes

418
00:23:42,150 --> 00:23:44,550
page so that while I'm
recording, I can type little

419
00:23:44,550 --> 00:23:47,160
notes and hit Enter. And it
remembers the time codes for me

420
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:51,210
like, all of this stuff is fun
and cool that I figured out the

421
00:23:51,210 --> 00:23:54,480
way you figured stuff out is
like I've been doing this for so

422
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,120
long that I've run into these
stupid things that irritate me.

423
00:23:57,120 --> 00:23:59,370
And I'm like, I'm just gonna
build a feature. So I don't have

424
00:23:59,370 --> 00:24:02,820
to keep doing it. But like
Lipson doesn't need to do that.

425
00:24:02,820 --> 00:24:05,760
Because people are just just
dropping their files off there.

426
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,610
So for us, we're very much
hungry. And I very much want to

427
00:24:08,910 --> 00:24:12,270
win something new, like what you
guys have come out with is here.

428
00:24:12,270 --> 00:24:15,210
I yeah, I really want to support
that I really want to integrate

429
00:24:15,210 --> 00:24:19,590
it because I want to use it to
you know, like, I want it so

430
00:24:20,250 --> 00:24:21,900
that's kind of my motivation.

431
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,330
Dan to go ahead, Dave.

432
00:24:24,690 --> 00:24:29,790
Did fireside I was gonna ask the
fireside develop out of five by

433
00:24:29,790 --> 00:24:30,900
five. Is that how that was?

434
00:24:31,379 --> 00:24:33,209
I was gonna ask a very similar
question.

435
00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:38,100
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I
had I had built when when I

436
00:24:38,100 --> 00:24:42,990
first was starting five by five,
which was in 2008. I, I had

437
00:24:42,990 --> 00:24:46,350
been, you know, I had decided I
wanted to try podcasting full

438
00:24:46,350 --> 00:24:51,120
time. And I was just as I was
coming up with new shows to do,

439
00:24:51,510 --> 00:24:54,930
I it seemed like there was like
a threshold for me that's like I

440
00:24:54,930 --> 00:24:59,400
could get X number of downloads
and listeners for a specific

441
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,130
show. But then I was kind of
hitting like a, like a glass

442
00:25:02,130 --> 00:25:06,240
ceiling of like, I can't seem to
cross much past beyond this

443
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,970
level. So I'll just do another
show, I'll get it up to that

444
00:25:08,970 --> 00:25:11,550
level. And that's how I make
enough money to pay my bills.

445
00:25:11,820 --> 00:25:16,020
Yeah, so I had a handful of
shows. And I found that every

446
00:25:16,020 --> 00:25:19,830
time I was doing a show, I had
to go and make a new website for

447
00:25:19,830 --> 00:25:23,010
it. And I was updating a lot of
them by hand. And at this time,

448
00:25:23,010 --> 00:25:28,080
again, 2008, nine, there weren't
like there wasn't software out

449
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,360
there. I think libsyn existed,
but I didn't like it. I mean,

450
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:32,730
I'm sorry, if the libsyn guys
are listening, nothing against

451
00:25:32,730 --> 00:25:35,580
them. But like, the interface
sucked. And I'm a usability

452
00:25:35,580 --> 00:25:38,490
person, I spent a lot of time
doing design and development and

453
00:25:38,490 --> 00:25:42,030
software development like you
David's like, I care about the

454
00:25:42,030 --> 00:25:45,000
experience, I want to enjoy the
software that I'm using life's

455
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,410
too short for crappy software.
So I, I thought, you know,

456
00:25:49,890 --> 00:25:53,520
reluctantly, I'll build my own
system that will let me anytime

457
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,520
I want to make a new podcast or
show it'll just be here. And I

458
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,100
mean, I've been building
software like publishing tools

459
00:25:59,100 --> 00:26:01,800
forever. So of course, it made
sense that I could just build

460
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,340
it. So I built it. And it ran
five by five for a long time.

461
00:26:05,340 --> 00:26:08,490
And over the years of doing it,
we had lots of different people

462
00:26:08,490 --> 00:26:10,830
on come and go on five by five
and different hosts and

463
00:26:10,830 --> 00:26:13,110
different people. And they'd
say, you know, I'd really like

464
00:26:13,110 --> 00:26:15,600
it if you had this feature that
could work like this, and then

465
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,670
say, okay, and someone else
would say, oh,

466
00:26:17,670 --> 00:26:18,300
what if what

467
00:26:18,300 --> 00:26:20,670
if you could work like this?
What if you had this and sell

468
00:26:20,670 --> 00:26:24,390
right, and I build it. And so at
the end of all of that long

469
00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:29,010
story short, I had a lot of
really great input from really

470
00:26:29,010 --> 00:26:33,330
smart podcasters. And my own
experiences to draw from it's a

471
00:26:33,540 --> 00:26:36,690
fireside was a total ground up
rewrite, it wasn't like I took

472
00:26:36,750 --> 00:26:39,720
what I built for five by five
and made it into something I

473
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,990
thought people would want to pay
for. I completely started from

474
00:26:42,990 --> 00:26:46,920
scratch. But a lot of most
everything. In fact, everything

475
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,710
that I learned from five by five
and building it went into

476
00:26:49,710 --> 00:26:53,520
fireside and I'm in the process
now of finally moving everything

477
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,360
from five by fives ancient
crappy CMS. Now, by today's

478
00:26:57,360 --> 00:27:00,420
standards, to the modern
fireside,

479
00:27:00,780 --> 00:27:04,590
just real similar to the way
that the bus broke, guys told us

480
00:27:04,590 --> 00:27:07,800
that they they kind of evolved,
they started out with CRM, like

481
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,800
making CRM software that had
nothing to do with writing with

482
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,490
even podcasting, but they just
sort of grew their software in

483
00:27:14,490 --> 00:27:17,070
this direction over time. And
the finally they're like, hey,

484
00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:18,720
we've actually got a really good
base here, it's

485
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:23,100
really quite amazing how, how,
for such a mature industry,

486
00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:26,640
there's really only a handful of
people that have created really

487
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:31,380
good tools for the authoring.
And I know a lot of focus went

488
00:27:31,380 --> 00:27:35,280
into recording, editing,
processing. And that's where I

489
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,920
think a lot of people really,
really would just heads down.

490
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,910
And then because of this chicken
in the egg, decade of standstill

491
00:27:41,910 --> 00:27:45,840
of development, nothing here
there was really no incentive, I

492
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,530
guess, for anyone to jump into
the new market. And for me, when

493
00:27:49,530 --> 00:27:52,470
we started working on these
tags, and I said it, I'll just

494
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:55,380
code it myself and like, looked
at the notepad. And he went, No,

495
00:27:55,380 --> 00:28:00,150
I won't. I can't do all these
escape characters. And it's it's

496
00:28:00,150 --> 00:28:04,290
a lot more than it used to be
back in the day. And I just went

497
00:28:04,290 --> 00:28:08,070
looking for a simple tool that
would just create an RSS feed

498
00:28:08,070 --> 00:28:13,020
just a file. It's not out there.
I mean, yeah, there's a few but

499
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,560
but nothing you can extend and
create new tags with. So it's

500
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,910
really nice to see this. This
really, as you said, rapid

501
00:28:20,910 --> 00:28:24,180
development. What I haven't
looked at the fireside

502
00:28:24,180 --> 00:28:27,210
interface, what what do you have
for chapter creation? Because

503
00:28:27,210 --> 00:28:33,630
my, my big ask, I think is and
we have one from hyper capture,

504
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,590
is the ability for people to,
you know, to create community

505
00:28:37,590 --> 00:28:42,480
based tags. Which it would be
great if it works amongst all

506
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,180
different apps, and everyone
somehow pings the same thing.

507
00:28:45,180 --> 00:28:47,730
But I was just wondering what
your what the current process

508
00:28:47,730 --> 00:28:52,020
is, is just very simple
timeline, enter, title, URL,

509
00:28:52,020 --> 00:28:52,860
image URL.

510
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,520
Yeah, very, very basic. I don't
even have the image URL part

511
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,930
because I built it just kind of
for myself, I wasn't doing a lot

512
00:29:00,930 --> 00:29:04,320
with chapters, and people never
really asked like, I'd really,

513
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,920
really try to pay attention to
the fireside customer base,

514
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,400
because those, they're just we
have the best, I'm so lucky. We

515
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,670
just have the best customers,
the best people, and they come

516
00:29:14,670 --> 00:29:17,550
up with so many ideas. And so
many of the features that I've

517
00:29:17,550 --> 00:29:20,730
implemented have come from
people just like in with five by

518
00:29:20,730 --> 00:29:23,430
five, just podcasters who are
using it saying I wish it was

519
00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:27,090
like this, I wish I could do
this chapters was not a request.

520
00:29:27,090 --> 00:29:31,350
There are not I am shocked still
by how few people even use

521
00:29:31,350 --> 00:29:35,940
chapters. So the implementation
that we've done is very, very

522
00:29:35,940 --> 00:29:39,060
basic. It's just you can enter
in a chapter you can enter the

523
00:29:39,060 --> 00:29:43,320
time code, you can enter in a
title. And I have had I said

524
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,260
I'll do images when people ask
for them and no one is asked.

525
00:29:46,650 --> 00:29:50,640
Right and and, you know, we
don't make a big stink about

526
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,910
having chapters. It's on the you
know, on the podcasts episodes

527
00:29:53,910 --> 00:29:58,260
Edit page, there's a tab that
says chapters. So, you know we

528
00:29:58,260 --> 00:30:00,630
can't be more prominent really
than that. Rather than having

529
00:30:00,630 --> 00:30:04,290
like a big flashing arrow
pointing at it, but not a lot of

530
00:30:04,290 --> 00:30:07,500
people use it, I'm shocked at
how few people use chapters or

531
00:30:07,500 --> 00:30:10,620
care about chapters. And I
wanted to ask you guys like, is

532
00:30:10,620 --> 00:30:14,130
this something that's like big
because your implementation of

533
00:30:14,130 --> 00:30:17,130
chapters and the way that, so
for people who don't sit there

534
00:30:17,130 --> 00:30:21,210
and read the RSS feeds that are
compliant with what you guys

535
00:30:21,210 --> 00:30:23,160
have built, there's a little
link in there that says

536
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:27,690
chapters. And if you follow that
link, it's a JSON, JSON feed

537
00:30:27,690 --> 00:30:30,720
essentially, for that episodes,
chapters perfect implementation

538
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,140
best way to do it. are a lot of
people using it, is this

539
00:30:34,140 --> 00:30:36,270
something you guys think is
important? Or did this come from

540
00:30:36,270 --> 00:30:36,990
the community

541
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:42,240
chat chapters has been a big
thing, I think amongst a small

542
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,000
group, of course, a lot of
people do spend time and put

543
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,570
chapters into their mp3 file,
which is kind of universally

544
00:30:48,570 --> 00:30:52,950
recognized by some of the more
some of the bigger apps, right,

545
00:30:52,980 --> 00:30:57,390
what got me excited are two
things. One is community

546
00:30:57,390 --> 00:31:02,190
chapter. So other people tagging
places in in the show, so that,

547
00:31:02,730 --> 00:31:05,370
you know, so it's Yes, exactly
what it is a community, and

548
00:31:05,370 --> 00:31:09,000
then, you know, other people can
go and find those chapters. But

549
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:14,430
what really got me excited was
the was the image URL, because

550
00:31:15,090 --> 00:31:19,710
for me, and it works best right
now, in pod friend, the web app.

551
00:31:21,390 --> 00:31:24,540
You know, you're, you're
literally looking at the screen,

552
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,740
and we're talking about album
art, and then it just pops up at

553
00:31:28,740 --> 00:31:31,110
that very moment, you see the
album mark that we're talking

554
00:31:31,110 --> 00:31:35,130
about. So to have that and to
say, Okay, here's a chart, or

555
00:31:35,130 --> 00:31:38,310
here's a graph, or here's a
picture, and then to be able to

556
00:31:38,310 --> 00:31:41,340
say just go ahead and take a
look at your at your app screen.

557
00:31:42,030 --> 00:31:47,100
That is super, super cool to me.
And there's only two apps that

558
00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:52,410
do it right now, which is hyper
capture and, and pod friend,

559
00:31:52,890 --> 00:31:54,660
and I have guest addict I think
that's I

560
00:31:54,660 --> 00:31:55,800
guess added does it as well.

561
00:31:56,190 --> 00:31:58,530
I believe so. Yeah. I thought
they

562
00:32:00,030 --> 00:32:02,250
do they have a an image that
rotates.

563
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,290
I know he implemented chapters.

564
00:32:04,950 --> 00:32:07,770
Now he has chapters and he has
the image but he I think he just

565
00:32:07,770 --> 00:32:11,610
displays it as a list. Okay, at
the bottom, yeah, no, it's this

566
00:32:11,610 --> 00:32:14,760
this rotating kind of slideshow
thing. That got me pretty

567
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,140
excited. And it really is only
two implementations. And one

568
00:32:19,140 --> 00:32:22,470
that's, you know, the web
version, it looks sexy. I really

569
00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:22,980
like it.

570
00:32:24,450 --> 00:32:29,490
Yeah, the, the chapters that
for? Well, I'm looking here in

571
00:32:29,490 --> 00:32:35,400
the database. And there's there
are roughly 2100 episodes in in

572
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,610
our index database that have a
chapter file associated with

573
00:32:38,610 --> 00:32:42,780
them. And a lot of there's quite
a few far sides in there. I'm

574
00:32:43,470 --> 00:32:46,650
looking at these URLs and
there's a there's quite a few

575
00:32:46,650 --> 00:32:51,420
fireside podcasts that are using
them. But they it seems like

576
00:32:52,260 --> 00:32:55,800
from what I've seen, there's
dislike divide or not divide

577
00:32:55,830 --> 00:33:00,780
maybe as a spectrum there's the
spectrum where people you know

578
00:33:00,780 --> 00:33:03,720
you either love chapters or you
don't care anything about them

579
00:33:03,930 --> 00:33:06,930
and everybody is either on one
side or the other there's like

580
00:33:06,930 --> 00:33:10,020
is very few people floating in
the middle right it's like some

581
00:33:10,020 --> 00:33:12,900
people are just diehard chapter
people and those are the people

582
00:33:12,900 --> 00:33:15,630
that have they were already
doing chapters with like in with

583
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,790
within the mp3 this is self

584
00:33:18,180 --> 00:33:21,240
they and I mean for the record
if you put your own chapters in

585
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,390
with other software like
fireside, you can import those.

586
00:33:24,450 --> 00:33:26,940
So you can click a little import
button or you can just not do

587
00:33:26,940 --> 00:33:29,970
anything and fireside won't
touch them. And they still ship

588
00:33:29,970 --> 00:33:32,970
out with the chapters the same
way that you did them. Oh, so

589
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,490
you put your mp3 in it can suck
them out is Oh yeah, it'll it'll

590
00:33:38,490 --> 00:33:41,220
it'll import them if you want.
Or you can just be or you just

591
00:33:41,220 --> 00:33:44,220
do nothing and they just ship
out with your mp3 on touched.

592
00:33:45,090 --> 00:33:49,320
Something about the chapter spec
is is okay, well, you know why?

593
00:33:49,710 --> 00:33:53,400
Why would you do a separate
chapter spec it versus Okay,

594
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,030
that's already available in the
mp3 itself. And the one of the

595
00:33:57,030 --> 00:34:00,960
reasons that we felt it was
necessary is because for exactly

596
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,870
the same thing that you're
talking about you you as a

597
00:34:03,870 --> 00:34:08,520
holster can implement. It can
implement chapters, without

598
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,840
having to do the heavy like a
bunch of heavy audio. You know,

599
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,830
you don't have to re encode or
parse the file and stick them in

600
00:34:16,830 --> 00:34:19,620
the frame headers and all this
kind of stuff. I mean, it's just

601
00:34:19,620 --> 00:34:22,530
so much easier to keep
everything in a separate JSON

602
00:34:22,530 --> 00:34:25,530
file. It's just a supplemental
checks.

603
00:34:25,650 --> 00:34:28,410
It's perfect. It's the way it
should be.

604
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,290
You know what I would love? I
just got it before I forget,

605
00:34:31,290 --> 00:34:33,780
just got to get it out. Because
I know Martin's listening. We've

606
00:34:33,780 --> 00:34:39,630
developed pod friend. I'd loved
a chapter pod friend that I

607
00:34:39,630 --> 00:34:43,980
could then share as a widget one
of your famous little widgets

608
00:34:43,980 --> 00:34:48,630
like the Twitter widget, and
when you play that piece, if

609
00:34:48,630 --> 00:34:54,540
there's a chapter that image
shows and the link shows. I

610
00:34:54,540 --> 00:34:56,580
don't know why I want it but
just want to say I wanted it

611
00:34:57,990 --> 00:35:00,720
that would be so fucking cool.
Like you do You could do just

612
00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:03,690
like little presentations, you
know, it's like a little. Oh,

613
00:35:03,690 --> 00:35:06,090
it's kind of cool. There's so I
don't know, I just feels to me

614
00:35:06,090 --> 00:35:07,920
like, there's a market for that.

615
00:35:09,210 --> 00:35:11,460
Oh, there is Adam. You're right.
And but the thing is just

616
00:35:11,460 --> 00:35:13,890
listening to what you were
saying how you like using

617
00:35:13,890 --> 00:35:17,100
chapters for popping up the
image of the thing that you're

618
00:35:17,100 --> 00:35:19,890
talking about. There. I don't
think people even realize the

619
00:35:19,890 --> 00:35:24,900
chapters can do that. A majority
of podcasters out there, think

620
00:35:24,900 --> 00:35:29,130
that it's just a way to like,
skip an ad or jump to the second

621
00:35:29,130 --> 00:35:30,810
half of the interview or
something. They don't even

622
00:35:30,810 --> 00:35:33,990
realize that it could be like a,
it could make the whole podcast

623
00:35:33,990 --> 00:35:36,300
experience more interactive. But
when you're talking Wait, when

624
00:35:36,300 --> 00:35:38,580
you're talking about community
chapters, you mean somebody's

625
00:35:38,580 --> 00:35:41,610
listening to it? And they could
add, they could say, oh, right

626
00:35:41,610 --> 00:35:44,820
here, yeah, I want to put a
essentially a marker down

627
00:35:44,820 --> 00:35:47,640
saying, This is the funny thing
that this person said

628
00:35:47,700 --> 00:35:51,300
exactly, exactly. And, and so
hyper capture allows you to do

629
00:35:51,300 --> 00:35:55,800
that. But it's only one app, and
it's on iOS. So before, before

630
00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:00,000
we get to any, you have to have
a back end running. The app has

631
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,110
to have some kind of back end to
store to store stores to have

632
00:36:04,110 --> 00:36:06,750
those be submitted up. And then
and then when I'm playing the

633
00:36:06,750 --> 00:36:10,500
mp3, it knows that I'm playing
that mp3 and shows them in my

634
00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:13,470
player, right? Yeah. And how do
you stop abuse of that? Because

635
00:36:13,470 --> 00:36:14,670
eventually you get people who
are gonna

636
00:36:15,299 --> 00:36:18,569
approval process. So hyper
capture will just show you that

637
00:36:18,569 --> 00:36:21,329
show you the submitted chapters,
and then you can approve or

638
00:36:21,329 --> 00:36:23,399
change or whatever you want
before it goes right.

639
00:36:23,430 --> 00:36:24,180
Right, right, right.

640
00:36:24,299 --> 00:36:26,699
Oh, yeah, cuz of course, you
know, I'm looking like, all

641
00:36:26,699 --> 00:36:30,029
right, who's gonna have a link
to one of those Safari pages

642
00:36:30,029 --> 00:36:34,829
that hijacks your iPhone
browser? We have to restart and

643
00:36:34,829 --> 00:36:37,859
you have to empty your history
because your your Safari won't

644
00:36:37,859 --> 00:36:38,879
start anymore.

645
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:45,930
six chapters of porn links? No.
Yeah. That was your, uh, your,

646
00:36:46,350 --> 00:36:47,760
your rebeka. Dan.

647
00:36:48,090 --> 00:36:51,300
Yeah, primarily, I mean,
firesides, all Ruby on Rails.

648
00:36:51,690 --> 00:36:54,900
With some other. There's some
other tech in the background

649
00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:57,270
there. But primarily, that's
what I've been using, just

650
00:36:57,270 --> 00:36:59,910
because I got into Ruby on
Rails, right when it was brand

651
00:36:59,910 --> 00:37:03,270
new. Gosh, I don't know,
whatever. More than 10 years

652
00:37:03,270 --> 00:37:08,280
ago, whenever it first came out.
And I actually built I think one

653
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,990
of the first if not the first,
like Ruby on Rails powered CMS

654
00:37:12,990 --> 00:37:17,070
is for a for an internet
magazine. And it was a really

655
00:37:17,070 --> 00:37:20,520
fun community at the time. And,
and it was it was really

656
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,490
different. It was really fun.
And Ruby's a fun language to to

657
00:37:23,490 --> 00:37:27,270
code in. What are you guys
developing? And I should know

658
00:37:27,270 --> 00:37:28,140
the answer that

659
00:37:28,410 --> 00:37:34,170
Oh, no, it's it's all over the
map. It's PHP, JavaScript. Most

660
00:37:34,170 --> 00:37:40,170
mostly, mostly PHP for the for
the back end of the API, in

661
00:37:40,170 --> 00:37:43,230
aggregate with the aggregators
all in node j. s,

662
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,560
is the Yeah, I mean, the
JavaScript is like, I don't, I

663
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,500
don't even think to mention it.
Because it's sort of a given.

664
00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:52,170
It's like, like, you wouldn't
say, Well, I use a computer to

665
00:37:52,170 --> 00:37:55,620
write code like he or she did
it. I feel like that's

666
00:37:55,620 --> 00:37:57,900
JavaScript has just become
ubiquitous. I don't know how

667
00:37:57,900 --> 00:38:01,050
it's possible to build an
application of any kind for the

668
00:38:01,050 --> 00:38:04,860
web without it, but in the no
jazz stuff is really great. And

669
00:38:04,860 --> 00:38:06,960
I think node I mean, I don't
want to go down this rabbit

670
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,040
hole, but I think node is is,
you know, there are people who

671
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,890
say, Oh, don't build it, node,
build it and go build it in rust

672
00:38:13,890 --> 00:38:16,590
or whatever. But I still seem
way more node than any of the

673
00:38:16,590 --> 00:38:17,070
others.

674
00:38:18,060 --> 00:38:23,850
I'm not, I don't like JavaScript
is john wonder. Yeah, no, that's

675
00:38:23,850 --> 00:38:27,510
crazy. JavaScript is the
language that that everybody

676
00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:30,720
uses, and depends on but
everybody also hates with a

677
00:38:30,720 --> 00:38:31,290
passion.

678
00:38:31,380 --> 00:38:35,520
Everyone needs any anyone who
understands good code hates

679
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:36,270
hates it.

680
00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:39,330
Yeah. In all the in all the
promises and all that kind of

681
00:38:39,330 --> 00:38:41,880
stuff. That's great. But it's
still just it's still a dumpster

682
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:43,560
fire. I mean, yeah, it really
is, you

683
00:38:44,820 --> 00:38:48,570
know, I mean, but I mean, I
write JavaScript code. Half the

684
00:38:48,570 --> 00:38:52,680
time. I mean, I hate I hate
doing it. And like yesterday, my

685
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:57,750
son he was using, you know, he
has steam to play as games. And

686
00:38:57,900 --> 00:39:01,350
there's this, there's this
thing, where I guess if you, I

687
00:39:01,350 --> 00:39:04,020
don't understand the details,
but somehow you get like a game

688
00:39:04,020 --> 00:39:06,480
in your wish list that doesn't
show up in your wish list

689
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,240
anymore, but it's still there,
so you get the wrong count. So

690
00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:11,580
like, it'll show you have 19
games in your wish list when you

691
00:39:11,580 --> 00:39:15,600
really only put 16 in there. So
the only way to clear it out, we

692
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,770
search for it. And it's some
dude wrote JavaScript that you

693
00:39:19,770 --> 00:39:22,350
have to go in into a web
browser, log into steam in a web

694
00:39:22,350 --> 00:39:25,950
browser, paste the JavaScript in
your web browsers console, and

695
00:39:25,950 --> 00:39:28,740
it will find the list of ones.
And he's like, is it safe for me

696
00:39:28,740 --> 00:39:30,900
to run this? And so last night,
I'm sitting there reading

697
00:39:30,900 --> 00:39:35,400
someone else's JavaScript code,
but like, I didn't even realize

698
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,950
I note like, I don't I don't
think about JavaScript. I don't

699
00:39:37,950 --> 00:39:40,560
even think that I know it. I
don't even consider it a thing.

700
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,810
It's just like of course I don't
think anybody else do it. I

701
00:39:42,810 --> 00:39:45,900
don't think anybody does know
it. I don't think he actually

702
00:39:45,900 --> 00:39:49,140
does know. The only guy that
knows JavaScript actually knows

703
00:39:49,140 --> 00:39:51,210
it. Isn't that dude the wrote
the book like JavaScript, the

704
00:39:51,210 --> 00:39:54,600
good parts, right? Whatever is
called the only guy that really

705
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,270
knows it. Yeah, everybody,
everybody else is just it's

706
00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:59,250
just, it's just bullshit. Yep,

707
00:39:59,430 --> 00:40:00,450
no 100 Sent.

708
00:40:02,220 --> 00:40:07,620
The I was what I was wondering
what? You know, in the tradition

709
00:40:07,620 --> 00:40:11,700
of interviewing, hosting
companies we typically in

710
00:40:11,700 --> 00:40:14,100
our long tradition of interval
hosting,

711
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:21,510
we we have to I'm trying to
figure out what Bitcoin related

712
00:40:21,510 --> 00:40:23,670
shenanigans that we can ask Dan
about. It's holy.

713
00:40:25,650 --> 00:40:27,720
Yeah. Now we got to tell you
something you'll never

714
00:40:27,720 --> 00:40:29,820
understand and then kick out.

715
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:32,340
Good interview.

716
00:40:33,900 --> 00:40:37,110
Have you have you played with
any of the devalue block stuff?

717
00:40:37,110 --> 00:40:37,470
Danny? We

718
00:40:37,470 --> 00:40:40,560
looked at swings chat on you
that stuff. Yeah, only because

719
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,870
of you guys only because what
you've been talking about and

720
00:40:42,870 --> 00:40:45,240
this show and it was completely
off my radar. We haven't

721
00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:48,210
implemented any of it yet. But
it's definitely on my radar now,

722
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:51,270
because of you guys. And, you
know, it's the kind of thing

723
00:40:51,270 --> 00:40:55,920
that like, it's so not mean. I
mean, like, it's, you guys think

724
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,970
about it so much that I feel
like to you, it's like, well, of

725
00:40:59,970 --> 00:41:02,550
course, this is what is
important. And but then there's

726
00:41:02,550 --> 00:41:05,880
like this huge pocket of people
that don't know anything about

727
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,640
any of this stuff. Oh, yeah.
Well, no, that's and they don't

728
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,770
want to be educated and they
don't want to learn about it.

729
00:41:10,770 --> 00:41:13,080
They're like, Nope, that's not I
want to do anything. It's like

730
00:41:13,140 --> 00:41:14,310
the old way, you know? Well,

731
00:41:14,310 --> 00:41:18,150
the good news is, once we get a
couple of shows really up and

732
00:41:18,150 --> 00:41:21,450
running, and talking about it,
and there's apps to get, I mean,

733
00:41:21,450 --> 00:41:25,440
the main, the main drawback to
Sphinx is fantastic. Because

734
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,980
it's two way interactive, they
got a lot of stuff that goes way

735
00:41:28,980 --> 00:41:32,340
above and beyond any podcast
app, certainly community

736
00:41:32,340 --> 00:41:37,890
features, which is truly, truly
dynamite. It doesn't scale in a

737
00:41:37,890 --> 00:41:43,440
quick manner, the way we kind of
need to launch the whole idea,

738
00:41:43,770 --> 00:41:47,490
where you just have a podcast
app or a couple of apps that

739
00:41:47,490 --> 00:41:52,440
anybody can use anybody, as long
as you can figure out how to in

740
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:56,250
fact, I think what Brees will do
is, you know, they they they tie

741
00:41:56,250 --> 00:42:02,100
in a Fiat payment processor.
And, and you can load it right

742
00:42:02,100 --> 00:42:06,420
up with, with with dollars, and
then boom, you're you've got

743
00:42:06,450 --> 00:42:09,720
lightning Bitcoin, and you're
off to the races. And of course,

744
00:42:09,720 --> 00:42:13,650
the app will work even if you
don't have that. And that'll

745
00:42:13,650 --> 00:42:17,760
scale. So then podcasters can
say, hey, check it out. And the

746
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:19,920
way I've always seen these
things roll out, and then you

747
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,950
have hundreds or thousands of
people who are checking it out,

748
00:42:23,130 --> 00:42:25,350
and they listen to other
podcasts. And if they like it,

749
00:42:25,350 --> 00:42:27,900
they'll tell the other podcast
or they listen to Hey, you

750
00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:30,810
should implement this. And then
the podcast just has to go

751
00:42:30,810 --> 00:42:34,380
figure out where the how to do
it what it is it kind of markets

752
00:42:34,380 --> 00:42:37,170
itself. And I have noticed that
when there's money involved

753
00:42:37,170 --> 00:42:39,090
people do pay a little more
attention.

754
00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:44,160
Yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely.
Definitely. So and speaking of

755
00:42:44,190 --> 00:42:46,980
speaking of money, I mean, that
the the things that I'm we're

756
00:42:47,010 --> 00:42:50,190
always hearing about tons and
tons of people asking us this

757
00:42:50,190 --> 00:42:53,430
all the time. They want dynamic
ad insertion. That's the

758
00:42:53,430 --> 00:42:56,310
biggest, that's the number one
request that I get these days,

759
00:42:56,340 --> 00:42:59,430
because maybe it's because we've
added all the other features

760
00:42:59,430 --> 00:43:02,580
that people are asking for
except that one. And and then

761
00:43:02,580 --> 00:43:05,760
the other thing that's talked
about a lot is stats and

762
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,660
accurate stats. And yeah, sure,
you know, in order to get the

763
00:43:09,660 --> 00:43:13,260
kinds of stats that people want,
like the kind and they always

764
00:43:13,260 --> 00:43:16,620
compare it to YouTube, and I
have a lot of conversations with

765
00:43:16,620 --> 00:43:21,510
people who are coming from
YouTube into podcasting. And the

766
00:43:21,510 --> 00:43:25,830
thing that I hear over and over
again, YouTube gives you really

767
00:43:25,830 --> 00:43:29,670
great stats, but not just stats,
it shows you what your viewers

768
00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:33,120
are actually doing. Right. And
I'm sure you guys have heard

769
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,930
this too. But it gets the, you
know, the fact that like, let's

770
00:43:36,930 --> 00:43:40,560
say you have an intro segment on
your YouTube video that you do

771
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,430
every time you make a video, and
people you can see if people are

772
00:43:44,430 --> 00:43:46,950
watching, you're skipping over
it exactly, well, here's,

773
00:43:47,340 --> 00:43:51,960
here's the great benefit of the
the devalue block and the

774
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:56,070
lightning node payments, is that
what that creates is a

775
00:43:56,070 --> 00:44:01,800
transaction record that both the
podcaster of course has over the

776
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:06,180
the person who's paying has but
the podcaster gets a permanent

777
00:44:07,050 --> 00:44:11,970
micro payment, which you can
track beautifully over time. So

778
00:44:11,970 --> 00:44:14,670
you can and actual listening
behavior because the minutes

779
00:44:14,670 --> 00:44:17,130
right now if if they don't have
anything in their wallet, you're

780
00:44:17,130 --> 00:44:20,850
not going to get any payments,
so you can't track it. But

781
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,630
already the Sphinx app, and now
they have a little extra thing,

782
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:28,740
which is also kind of a YouTube
thing or Instagram Live is you

783
00:44:28,740 --> 00:44:31,590
could hit the boost button. So
if you're listening, and you're

784
00:44:31,590 --> 00:44:34,530
like, Oh, this is funny, he hit
the boost button, it sends you

785
00:44:34,530 --> 00:44:38,730
know, and it's configurable. I
think the default is 10 SATs,

786
00:44:38,730 --> 00:44:42,030
but most people have at higher
and boom you send 100 SATs to

787
00:44:42,030 --> 00:44:47,190
the show or to whatever split is
in that value block. Then you

788
00:44:47,190 --> 00:44:51,960
can go back and as the podcaster
you can look at the at the

789
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:56,490
timeline, and you can see where
the boosts were. So now all of a

790
00:44:56,490 --> 00:44:59,310
sudden you have some real
granular data. Oh people really

791
00:44:59,310 --> 00:45:02,550
like this because they We're
boosting it. And that and that,

792
00:45:02,580 --> 00:45:06,060
by the way, will carry over into
into any app that that

793
00:45:06,060 --> 00:45:09,030
implements this, they can do
something very similar. So you

794
00:45:09,030 --> 00:45:14,730
have very similar to the Apple
podcast Connect, you have

795
00:45:14,730 --> 00:45:17,550
listening statistics. That's
wonderful. I

796
00:45:17,549 --> 00:45:20,009
mean, and the more the more we
can get that.

797
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,010
So you can even add, you can
even say, hey, not only do you

798
00:45:23,010 --> 00:45:26,190
get micro payments, but you also
get some statistics. That's all

799
00:45:26,190 --> 00:45:28,650
you need is a sample, right? You
need a sample of people who are

800
00:45:28,650 --> 00:45:31,110
going to listen, and then you
have kind of an idea. You can

801
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,590
overlay that with your Apple
Listen, stats and and

802
00:45:34,620 --> 00:45:36,180
extrapolate some good data.

803
00:45:36,779 --> 00:45:40,049
But we don't even have an
accurate I mean, I know the IB

804
00:45:40,049 --> 00:45:44,519
has their spec, which I don't, I
don't. I mean, it's good. And

805
00:45:44,519 --> 00:45:47,159
it's good that we have a spec,
but there are some flaws with

806
00:45:47,159 --> 00:45:52,229
it. I came out with a wave. In
my mind, I haven't come in No,

807
00:45:52,229 --> 00:45:54,629
I've not told anyone about it.
It's just been sitting in my

808
00:45:54,629 --> 00:45:57,809
mind of a way that we could
actually get just regular stats,

809
00:45:57,809 --> 00:45:59,699
I'm not even talking about
listener behavior, but just

810
00:45:59,699 --> 00:46:01,109
accurate downloads.

811
00:46:02,009 --> 00:46:05,069
Really Come on, that's not
possible. Dan, no one's no one's

812
00:46:05,249 --> 00:46:07,259
able to do accurate downloads
get

813
00:46:07,260 --> 00:46:11,640
out of town, in order to do it,
we would need participation from

814
00:46:11,700 --> 00:46:14,940
basically every podcast app, and
we'll never get that we'll never

815
00:46:14,940 --> 00:46:19,110
get it and you know, but there
are, there are ways to do it, we

816
00:46:19,110 --> 00:46:22,470
would just need everyone to get
on board with it. And that would

817
00:46:22,470 --> 00:46:24,900
probably be about as easy as
getting all the cell phone

818
00:46:24,900 --> 00:46:29,310
carriers to agree on a standard,
you know, across international

819
00:46:29,310 --> 00:46:29,820
borders.

820
00:46:30,150 --> 00:46:30,720
So,

821
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:35,460
you know, the answer is probably
never, but that it's just super

822
00:46:35,460 --> 00:46:40,200
frustrating. Because for a
podcaster. You know, they it's

823
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,420
not it's not like they're
saying, gosh, we really wish we

824
00:46:42,420 --> 00:46:44,730
knew if people were skipping
through this part of the show,

825
00:46:44,940 --> 00:46:47,370
you know, maybe sort of they can
kind of get that the way you're

826
00:46:47,370 --> 00:46:50,160
describing. They don't even know
if their episode has ever been

827
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,440
played when it's been
downloaded. Or how many people

828
00:46:52,470 --> 00:46:55,530
actually really even downloaded
the thing. It's and it's super

829
00:46:55,530 --> 00:46:59,670
frustrating. The funny thing is,
it's always the people that we

830
00:46:59,700 --> 00:47:02,100
when we get asked questions
about it, it's always the people

831
00:47:02,100 --> 00:47:05,760
with really, really small shows,
relatively speaking, the people

832
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,310
who have hundreds of thousands
of downloads, they don't really

833
00:47:08,310 --> 00:47:11,040
care. They don't even care at
that point. But it's the people

834
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,280
who are like, last week, I got
51 downloads this week, I got

835
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:14,970
48.

836
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:20,190
And that's what I like, so much
about the about the streaming

837
00:47:20,190 --> 00:47:25,110
value is right, even though it's
so I'm just looking at the index

838
00:47:25,110 --> 00:47:28,440
node, and in the month of
November, and this is very,

839
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,890
very, very small group. Do you
think Dave 2030 people maybe are

840
00:47:31,890 --> 00:47:32,550
listening?

841
00:47:33,180 --> 00:47:37,470
Yeah, it's I think it's more
than we think it is. But it's it

842
00:47:37,500 --> 00:47:38,970
maybe Max 50?

843
00:47:39,540 --> 00:47:44,340
Yeah. So and by the way, that
those 50 people and they're

844
00:47:44,340 --> 00:47:48,120
boosting and everything they've
done have resulted in $15 to the

845
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,830
index, I'm looking at that and
going shit, that's 1% of

846
00:47:52,830 --> 00:47:56,880
whatever else is, is flowing.
You know, that's, that's some

847
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,640
real money that's flowing around
amongst a small group of

848
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:05,760
micropayments. Right. But the
money doesn't even matter. Just

849
00:48:05,820 --> 00:48:09,120
Just like Click, click every
minute, there's something coming

850
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,480
in. And it's like, oh, my God,
someone's listening right now

851
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:17,040
they're listening right now. And
then you see, like a, you see,

852
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,190
like a three Satoshi come
through again, the index is 1%.

853
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:26,220
Like, someone boosted in. So you
get a pretty, pretty good idea.

854
00:48:26,220 --> 00:48:30,720
Now, the reporting I have, I
can't, I have no idea what

855
00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:33,690
anyone's playing but as a
podcaster. And that's what I

856
00:48:33,690 --> 00:48:37,230
like about the splits is that
everybody involved gets the same

857
00:48:37,230 --> 00:48:41,820
reporting. So whether you are,
or at least has the same data,

858
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:47,520
whether you're just a or just
whether you get 5%, of a

859
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:53,190
particular episode, because you
did the artwork, it's still, you

860
00:48:53,190 --> 00:48:56,640
know, you get to see exactly
where people were listening as

861
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,120
well, or where they were, they'd
like something more or less. And

862
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,310
in fact, when you're talking
about the artwork, you can

863
00:49:02,310 --> 00:49:05,280
probably see if people like that
artwork, if they're boosting, I

864
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,970
mean, this it's endless. It's
very, so simple to implement. I

865
00:49:08,970 --> 00:49:11,100
mean, more or less,

866
00:49:11,339 --> 00:49:16,469
but now, Dan, how, how is your
How would you characterize your

867
00:49:17,129 --> 00:49:21,959
customer base? Would you say
that? Like, how much of a

868
00:49:21,959 --> 00:49:25,079
percentage of them really are
really in it for monetization

869
00:49:25,079 --> 00:49:28,619
purposes? And how much are
really just kind of don't care.

870
00:49:28,619 --> 00:49:31,289
They're just into it for just
the fun in the experience of

871
00:49:31,289 --> 00:49:31,859
podcasting?

872
00:49:32,250 --> 00:49:34,590
That's a wonderful question. I
don't know if I have a

873
00:49:34,590 --> 00:49:38,520
definitive answer on that
because you know, there are so

874
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,880
many different ways to monetize
you can you we have a little

875
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:45,420
feature that makes it easy for
you to enter in like sponsors

876
00:49:45,420 --> 00:49:49,560
and links for sponsors, but it
doesn't have any kind of there's

877
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:51,930
no like payment system. If
you're a sponsor, you don't log

878
00:49:51,930 --> 00:49:54,840
in and and like have a way to
use a credit card to buy a

879
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,590
sponsorship in there. We have
left that up to the individuals

880
00:49:58,590 --> 00:50:03,210
to do it, but What we are
rolling out is integration with

881
00:50:03,210 --> 00:50:06,300
Patreon. And integration with
we've actually had integration

882
00:50:06,300 --> 00:50:08,190
with Patreon for a while Was
that fun

883
00:50:08,190 --> 00:50:10,530
leads behind an extra level.

884
00:50:11,010 --> 00:50:14,340
Yeah, and it's actually the way
that and we're adding in member

885
00:50:14,340 --> 00:50:18,360
full support to but the way that
this works is like for example,

886
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,210
I have a show that I do called
roadwork, I do it with john

887
00:50:21,210 --> 00:50:26,760
rodrick out of Seattle. And we
also do a bonus show every week.

888
00:50:26,790 --> 00:50:30,150
And we make a version of the
episode with no sponsors in it

889
00:50:30,150 --> 00:50:34,230
available to so depending on
your Patreon tier, right, you

890
00:50:34,230 --> 00:50:37,590
either get well everyone who
supports us gets the bonus show.

891
00:50:38,010 --> 00:50:41,130
And then different tiers
depending on what tier you are,

892
00:50:41,130 --> 00:50:43,590
you might get the sponsor this
version of the show. So I'll use

893
00:50:43,590 --> 00:50:46,980
this I'll use this show as an
example. What I have to do my

894
00:50:46,980 --> 00:50:52,110
workflow for this is okay, take
that take the show clean, clean

895
00:50:52,110 --> 00:50:55,620
it up, make it sound good, and
then publish it without the

896
00:50:55,620 --> 00:50:58,650
sponsors then publish another
version of that same episode

897
00:50:58,650 --> 00:51:02,580
with the sponsors then take the
after show and publish that

898
00:51:02,580 --> 00:51:05,820
version. And when I say publish,
what that means is I take the

899
00:51:05,820 --> 00:51:08,910
regular sponsored version and
push it up to the five by five

900
00:51:08,910 --> 00:51:12,690
CMS then I have to go log into
Patreon and I have to upload the

901
00:51:12,690 --> 00:51:16,080
content for the bonus show and
I've got to upload the content

902
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,150
for the other show and I've got
a

903
00:51:19,140 --> 00:51:22,020
coin lightning is easier. Well I
believe

904
00:51:22,890 --> 00:51:26,160
but but so many people are
already on Patreon and we

905
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:30,000
already have sure all the people
on Patreon so what the way we

906
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:33,810
implemented it in a fireside is
you would just upload it to

907
00:51:33,810 --> 00:51:37,830
fireside you would upload the
episode to fireside and then you

908
00:51:37,830 --> 00:51:42,570
would select who in the Patreon
whether all everyone gets it or

909
00:51:42,570 --> 00:51:45,780
you would select the one tier
and above that get that is

910
00:51:45,780 --> 00:51:50,460
allowed to get it. And then each
person gets their own private

911
00:51:50,460 --> 00:51:56,730
feed from fireside and only they
have access to No, it's not

912
00:51:56,730 --> 00:52:00,480
guessable, and you have the
ability as a podcaster to expire

913
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,450
feeds or regenerate them or
whatever size detect if you

914
00:52:03,450 --> 00:52:06,450
detect some abuse. But the
problem again with having those

915
00:52:06,450 --> 00:52:09,600
things exist on Patreon. I don't
know how many people are

916
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:13,230
downloading the Patreon Patreon
has zero stats, I don't know if

917
00:52:13,230 --> 00:52:15,870
they're fast or slow downloads,
they people don't even know

918
00:52:15,870 --> 00:52:18,810
where to go on Patreon to find
the feed that they're supposed

919
00:52:18,810 --> 00:52:22,320
to use this subscribe to. So
fireside takes all of this away

920
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,260
and makes it all easy and great
with with numbers and stuff like

921
00:52:25,260 --> 00:52:28,410
that. But the problem is, we
don't have any kind of like

922
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:32,280
official partnership with
Patreon. And if Patreon decided

923
00:52:32,310 --> 00:52:36,480
today to turn off their API,
which they might do, we're

924
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,590
screwed, our customers are using
it also get screwed. And they

925
00:52:40,590 --> 00:52:43,980
just announced a partnership
with another podcast company

926
00:52:43,980 --> 00:52:47,010
who's doing the same thing,
which I suspected and talked

927
00:52:47,010 --> 00:52:51,030
about on a couple shows, because
they basically came out with an

928
00:52:51,030 --> 00:52:54,000
announcement back in January
saying Yeah, our API is fine.

929
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,310
And we're not going to be
updating it anymore. And also,

930
00:52:56,310 --> 00:52:59,490
we're not really going to
support it anymore. Which here's

931
00:52:59,490 --> 00:53:00,690
here's our new partnership

932
00:53:00,690 --> 00:53:01,800
over here. Yeah,

933
00:53:01,830 --> 00:53:06,300
exactly. So we implemented it
anyway. But the more ways that I

934
00:53:06,300 --> 00:53:12,120
can give customers or podcasters
to get get financial support

935
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:15,060
back to your original question,
the more I want to do that,

936
00:53:15,060 --> 00:53:19,500
because I really think that what
you guys are on to that's really

937
00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:23,490
the future of podcasting is
people saying, I like this, I

938
00:53:23,490 --> 00:53:27,390
want to support it. It's not
listening to ads, there will

939
00:53:27,390 --> 00:53:30,480
always be like big shows with
big ads. I think that's that's

940
00:53:31,110 --> 00:53:36,180
solidified forever. But I
really, if it's me, I love

941
00:53:36,180 --> 00:53:39,900
supporting people and knowing
that like they're getting,

942
00:53:39,930 --> 00:53:42,570
you've talked about this so
much, Adam, I feel like I can't

943
00:53:42,570 --> 00:53:45,570
add anything to it. But you
know, you're supporting the

944
00:53:45,570 --> 00:53:47,730
person directly. And that feels
good. Yeah.

945
00:53:48,540 --> 00:53:48,960
Yeah.

946
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:51,900
You know, the, that's the model.
And

947
00:53:53,070 --> 00:53:56,850
over the last few weeks, since
I've been using the Sphinx app,

948
00:53:57,150 --> 00:54:00,060
but of course, the the first
people that jumped on board,

949
00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:03,210
were all the Bitcoin podcast,
guys, right? So they, they go,

950
00:54:03,210 --> 00:54:05,460
they already knew I already
understood all this stuff. So

951
00:54:05,460 --> 00:54:08,640
they all jumped in there. So
it's mostly that and there's no

952
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:13,590
agenda in there and podcasting
2.0 so I have been using that to

953
00:54:13,590 --> 00:54:17,490
listen to any of the any of the
feeds, I was using overcast. So

954
00:54:17,490 --> 00:54:21,630
any of the feeds that now are
lightning enabled, we have

955
00:54:21,750 --> 00:54:24,300
pulled it, remove them from
overcast and I'm just listening

956
00:54:24,300 --> 00:54:27,840
to most things I can tell you.
One of the things

957
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:33,420
psychologically is I seriously
feel guilty for not paying for a

958
00:54:33,420 --> 00:54:39,300
podcast. I was thinking about
that a couple of days ago

959
00:54:39,300 --> 00:54:42,360
because I couldn't. There was a
problem with the Sphinx app and

960
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:45,420
it in it and I ended up having
to reinstall it in order to get

961
00:54:45,420 --> 00:54:50,700
it to work. But in the meantime,
I wanted to listen to Tales from

962
00:54:50,700 --> 00:54:54,480
the Crypt so I was trying to
flip back over to overcast and

963
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:55,290
it just made like

964
00:54:55,350 --> 00:54:57,060
so bad. Like I felt bad. Yes,

965
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,509
I had like a physical injury
feeling in me that I was doing

966
00:55:00,509 --> 00:55:04,769
something wrong by not listening
in a way that was going to pay

967
00:55:04,769 --> 00:55:05,489
stay there

968
00:55:05,519 --> 00:55:07,049
powerful Mojo, man.

969
00:55:07,110 --> 00:55:11,790
I like that. It was like, You
know what, that's this is a very

970
00:55:11,790 --> 00:55:15,720
interesting concept because this
is what's actually, how am I

971
00:55:15,720 --> 00:55:19,350
gonna say this? That's a good
thing. Because, you know, we've

972
00:55:19,350 --> 00:55:24,360
talked, we've talked a lot about
debt free, the concept of free

973
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:28,320
needs to die, because there's
nothing I want to say this about

974
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:32,550
fireside as I was looking
through, looking on the page I

975
00:55:32,550 --> 00:55:35,880
like is just, here's what you
get you pay. This is how much

976
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:40,110
it's gonna cost you per month.
In, there's no free. There's no

977
00:55:40,110 --> 00:55:44,250
free tier where you can have ads
and we're gonna try to monetize

978
00:55:44,250 --> 00:55:47,220
you in some right away. It's
just straight up price. I

979
00:55:47,220 --> 00:55:51,210
mean, I, I don't like doing
that. I don't like that. So why

980
00:55:51,210 --> 00:55:53,880
would I build that into my
service? You know, if I don't

981
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:57,480
like be, and you know that we
debated a long time. And I had a

982
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:00,210
lot of people saying, Oh, you've
got to have a free tier, you've

983
00:56:00,210 --> 00:56:03,630
got to have a free tier. And I
really have been resistant to

984
00:56:03,630 --> 00:56:06,690
that the way that we're trying
to get around that now is we're

985
00:56:06,690 --> 00:56:10,200
and this is hope, Garrett, my
developer that works with me

986
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,230
who's been working on this
feature, won't get pissed off if

987
00:56:13,230 --> 00:56:15,900
I talk about it, but he's been
working really hard on unlike,

988
00:56:16,470 --> 00:56:19,140
basically trials that you don't
need a credit card for. So you

989
00:56:19,140 --> 00:56:23,370
can basically just, you know,
make a username and password and

990
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,490
you get into you're able to use
all the features of fireside

991
00:56:26,490 --> 00:56:30,480
short of like, basically taking
the show live everything short

992
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,510
of that you'll be able to use it
experiment with it. Because for

993
00:56:33,510 --> 00:56:37,260
whatever reason, even though
we've got like a 14 day free

994
00:56:37,260 --> 00:56:41,100
trial, you still got to put a
credit card in Yeah. And and

995
00:56:41,100 --> 00:56:44,040
there's a lot you would be
shocked at how many p i am

996
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,040
shocked at how many people get
to that point and are like,

997
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:49,980
nope, screw it, I'm out doing it
not give I'm not giving them my

998
00:56:49,980 --> 00:56:52,680
credit card. Like we're gonna do
something. First of all, like

999
00:56:52,740 --> 00:56:56,520
stripe handles it anyway. But
like, what are we like, you

1000
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,520
really are afraid that we're
just gonna start charging you if

1001
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:03,090
you you know, like, if you
cancel in the 14 days. Do you

1002
00:57:03,090 --> 00:57:07,380
know how many people over the
lifespan? I guess we started in

1003
00:57:07,380 --> 00:57:12,870
two 620 16 the lifespan of
fireside how many people have

1004
00:57:12,870 --> 00:57:16,320
gone like past their trial and
had to write in and say, Oh, I

1005
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:21,450
went past my trial and we refund
them. Like a dozen, like so few

1006
00:57:21,690 --> 00:57:24,210
people are pretty good about it.
I don't know why that's such a

1007
00:57:24,330 --> 00:57:27,090
hang up for people. But fine. If
we can make it easier, then, you

1008
00:57:27,090 --> 00:57:28,320
know, we'll let people log in.
And

1009
00:57:28,500 --> 00:57:32,970
I will say that when I I wanted
to try out buzzsprout and I

1010
00:57:32,970 --> 00:57:36,150
believe they do have exactly
that where you can set it all up

1011
00:57:36,150 --> 00:57:41,370
without a credit card. And but
you can't publish. And I and it

1012
00:57:41,370 --> 00:57:44,670
took me past the hump like Oh
shit, I'll sign up for this. Of

1013
00:57:44,670 --> 00:57:47,010
course they immediately refunded
my money and gave me a free

1014
00:57:47,010 --> 00:57:51,870
account. This is silly. But I
kind of like that idea. This you

1015
00:57:51,870 --> 00:57:54,510
find that works. You get a
percentage of people who try it

1016
00:57:54,510 --> 00:57:57,090
out and then convert is that
better for you? Mostly? Yeah, I

1017
00:57:57,090 --> 00:57:59,460
mean, most of it, most of the
people who do try it out, do

1018
00:57:59,460 --> 00:58:03,060
wind up you know, using it
becoming a customer which is

1019
00:58:03,060 --> 00:58:08,100
great. But you know, it's it's
like any kind of barrier that I

1020
00:58:08,100 --> 00:58:12,570
can help remove for people to
get to get in not just into

1021
00:58:12,570 --> 00:58:16,110
fireside but into podcasting in
general. Because, gosh, compare

1022
00:58:16,110 --> 00:58:20,760
where we are now in in 20 with
where we were five years ago

1023
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:24,330
like it is a completely
different universe. And it's so

1024
00:58:24,390 --> 00:58:27,900
easy to get started. Now you can
buy like this microphone that

1025
00:58:27,900 --> 00:58:30,600
I'm using my little home
microphone it's you know, what

1026
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,660
is it 100 bucks or something
like that's that's not a huge

1027
00:58:33,660 --> 00:58:36,960
investment in how much Didn't
you know did the guy who likes

1028
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:40,470
to go fly fishing, invest in his
fly fishing hobby, hundreds, if

1029
00:58:40,470 --> 00:58:44,190
not thousands of dollars to get
all the right equipment and the

1030
00:58:44,190 --> 00:58:46,620
gear and learning how to cast
the line and learning it. You

1031
00:58:46,620 --> 00:58:49,410
know, like that's an expensive
hobby that I just picked. But

1032
00:58:49,410 --> 00:58:52,590
even a bowling ball of people
even go bowling anymore. a

1033
00:58:52,590 --> 00:58:55,170
bowling ball cost more than
that. And shoes cost more than

1034
00:58:55,170 --> 00:58:59,310
that. So now with podcasting,
it's so easy to get interested

1035
00:58:59,310 --> 00:59:01,950
in it, it should be easy for
people to do it. But back to

1036
00:59:01,950 --> 00:59:06,960
your comment about free. I just
don't believe free. Makes sense.

1037
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,600
There's always a catch. There's
always a catch.

1038
00:59:09,660 --> 00:59:14,040
Well, free is expensive at the
end of the day, I had. So web

1039
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:20,310
3.0 which I have a feeling will
run on some form of blockchain

1040
00:59:20,310 --> 00:59:23,460
type infrastructure may be
quicker than we then we realize

1041
00:59:23,610 --> 00:59:25,920
I had a pretty good experience
today I was trying to find some

1042
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:30,930
documentation on a specific
lightning node function. And I

1043
00:59:30,930 --> 00:59:34,860
came across the site, which is
really nice, really well laid

1044
00:59:34,860 --> 00:59:38,430
out, you know, it's like someone
took the GitHub Pages and then

1045
00:59:38,430 --> 00:59:42,750
made the documentation easy to
understand color coded it and I

1046
00:59:42,750 --> 00:59:45,750
was like, Oh, this is exactly
the info I wanted. And it said,

1047
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:52,200
pay 150 satoshis or no is it
three cents to continue? And I'm

1048
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:56,700
like, Oh, hold on a second. You
click on the button up pops a QR

1049
00:59:56,700 --> 00:59:59,970
code. I scan it with my phone. I
hit yes. Boom, that page loads

1050
01:00:00,900 --> 01:00:03,990
That was a good experience. And
I felt pretty good as well.

1051
01:00:03,990 --> 01:00:06,930
Because I saw most of the page I
needed the information I didn't

1052
01:00:06,930 --> 01:00:10,620
have yet I knew it was
obfuscated by this paywall, but

1053
01:00:10,620 --> 01:00:15,090
it was so fast and so easy for
me to just, you know, pick a

1054
01:00:15,090 --> 01:00:19,380
random wallet scan the QR code
done, very enjoyable.

1055
01:00:20,310 --> 01:00:23,520
They will process is difficult
to get to overcome just in and

1056
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:27,630
of itself, it's really not about
it's not so much about paying as

1057
01:00:27,630 --> 01:00:32,670
it is. Is it is like this
conjunction between two you're

1058
01:00:32,670 --> 01:00:37,560
paying and and how the process
is going to work. Because when

1059
01:00:37,650 --> 01:00:41,400
if I'm if I'm clicking over to
Vanity Fair, and to read an

1060
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:44,850
article and it pops up a
paywall, like, you know, I mean,

1061
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:47,430
yeah, he's like, his shit,
right?

1062
01:00:47,700 --> 01:00:53,400
Yeah, I mean, like, but but if I
click over to sub substack, or

1063
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:55,950
somebody there who I know is
like an independent person who's

1064
01:00:55,950 --> 01:01:00,240
going to charge me five bucks a
month, it's theirs, I'm willing

1065
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:03,630
to sort of jump over the jump
over the fence there and go

1066
01:01:03,630 --> 01:01:05,910
through the process of doing a
stripe payment and all that kind

1067
01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:08,310
of thing. But doesn't like,
well, this guy's gonna get all

1068
01:01:08,310 --> 01:01:11,520
the money, and he's gonna get
most of this. And he's gonna get

1069
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:13,830
a lion's share. I wonder

1070
01:01:13,830 --> 01:01:16,830
what stack fees are? I don't
actually know what they're

1071
01:01:16,830 --> 01:01:20,490
charging should look into that.
Yeah, I'm sure they're doing

1072
01:01:20,490 --> 01:01:21,510
Patreon level.

1073
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:25,320
Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure it's
got to be small. Because

1074
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:27,480
otherwise you couldn't really
make a five bucks a month thing

1075
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:29,190
work? Yeah, but

1076
01:01:29,190 --> 01:01:31,170
if they take 10%

1077
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,670
mastery. Yeah, I don't know what
the I don't know what that is,

1078
01:01:35,670 --> 01:01:39,270
is there's just some sort of
some sort of conjunction between

1079
01:01:39,270 --> 01:01:42,810
who it is and, and the process
that is going to

1080
01:01:42,810 --> 01:01:47,160
take, right. Yeah, I agree. And,
and you feel when you're even if

1081
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:49,320
you have your credit card
details pre loaded in your

1082
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:53,760
browser, auto fill, whatever.
It's still. And by the way, if

1083
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:56,370
I'm doing that for three cents,
I'm not doing it and nor is the

1084
01:01:56,370 --> 01:01:59,370
credit card company, they're
not. Either they're like, No,

1085
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:02,280
no, you got to have at least $1
or whatever. I'm sure there's

1086
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:05,550
some some limit because the
feature just down the line or

1087
01:02:05,550 --> 01:02:08,910
higher for them. I just think
that ease once you make it that

1088
01:02:08,910 --> 01:02:13,260
easy, and I know guaranteed
three cents is going to go from

1089
01:02:13,260 --> 01:02:15,840
me to somewhere I don't give a
crap. I know the guy's gonna get

1090
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:18,000
it, he's going to get it
directly. It's not going to get

1091
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,370
subverted somewhere else. And it
was easy

1092
01:02:20,550 --> 01:02:22,410
to set up an account and get

1093
01:02:22,860 --> 01:02:24,420
an account. Yeah, exactly.

1094
01:02:24,810 --> 01:02:28,320
Well, what Dan, or your you
mentioned dynamic Anis, are

1095
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:30,660
y'all doing any sort of ad
insertion tech?

1096
01:02:31,020 --> 01:02:35,490
I mean that we're working on
that hard. Just not be I

1097
01:02:35,490 --> 01:02:39,450
personally, I don't like dynamic
ad insertion. And there's

1098
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:42,900
there's two different when
people say dynamic ad insertion,

1099
01:02:43,410 --> 01:02:46,470
there's kind of two different
takes on it. One kind of

1100
01:02:46,470 --> 01:02:50,250
building on the second one. The
first one is, I have a podcast,

1101
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:53,640
there are certain areas of the
podcast time codes of the

1102
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:57,120
podcast that I've designated as
Oh, my god, yes. Ready for an

1103
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:00,780
ad? Yeah, right. And that will
tell me what you're thinking I'm

1104
01:03:00,780 --> 01:03:01,050
because I'm

1105
01:03:01,170 --> 01:03:03,840
not I don't want to interrupt,
keep going. Sorry about the

1106
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:04,800
timecode problem.

1107
01:03:04,980 --> 01:03:09,600
Okay, so then, so then you
insert your ad into that

1108
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:12,450
programmatically. So you might
you might say, well, I've got my

1109
01:03:12,450 --> 01:03:14,970
back catalogue, I've got 100
episodes, and I want to sell

1110
01:03:14,970 --> 01:03:18,450
them for 1000 bucks a month.
And, you know, some mattress

1111
01:03:18,450 --> 01:03:21,510
company wants to pay me to put
their ads. So I'll go do the ad

1112
01:03:21,510 --> 01:03:23,610
read for the mattress company
and talk about how awesome the

1113
01:03:23,610 --> 01:03:27,420
mattress is. And then it's the
system will use these time codes

1114
01:03:27,420 --> 01:03:31,440
that I've already entered in and
drop this ad into the pre

1115
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:35,310
existing back catalogue of
shows, or maybe even in the new

1116
01:03:35,310 --> 01:03:37,710
app set of episodes that are
coming out, it'll automatically

1117
01:03:37,710 --> 01:03:42,750
put them in, and and then now i
can i can monetize that. And

1118
01:03:42,750 --> 01:03:45,930
then next month, I'm going to
get 1000 bucks from some other

1119
01:03:45,930 --> 01:03:49,290
company and, um, it's going to
go back and replace that in all

1120
01:03:49,290 --> 01:03:52,920
of those. All of those episodes,
again, it's going to take the

1121
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:55,950
mattress that out and put in the
ad for the web hosting company.

1122
01:03:55,980 --> 01:04:00,750
And, and and, and then there's
also the concept of dynamic ad

1123
01:04:00,750 --> 01:04:04,350
insertion, where it goes a step
further than that and actually

1124
01:04:04,350 --> 01:04:08,280
serves different ads to
different people based on their

1125
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:11,910
geographic or geolocation.
Right. So that they so that the

1126
01:04:11,910 --> 01:04:15,870
person who's in, you know,
Alabama is going to hear an ad

1127
01:04:15,870 --> 01:04:20,370
for, you know, for their local
company or some kind of regional

1128
01:04:20,370 --> 01:04:21,510
promotion. Go ahead,

1129
01:04:21,630 --> 01:04:24,390
pickup trucks, you can say yeah,
hey, now we know where Dave's

1130
01:04:24,390 --> 01:04:26,040
from a dance, you

1131
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:27,690
know, in Austin. Okay.

1132
01:04:28,650 --> 01:04:31,860
We got beamers we got ads for
beamers and oskaloosa. Tesla's

1133
01:04:32,940 --> 01:04:33,900
Tesla, Yes,

1134
01:04:33,900 --> 01:04:34,680
exactly.

1135
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:37,800
And then you know, the person in
California is gonna get an ad

1136
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:41,130
for a Prius. So basically,
that's the that's the concept

1137
01:04:41,130 --> 01:04:44,280
and, and we're not doing the
second one. At this point, we're

1138
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:48,870
looking at doing the first one,
which would make it easy for

1139
01:04:48,870 --> 01:04:54,060
people to put an ad into their
pre existing or new episode.

1140
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:57,360
They put in a time code that
says here's where the ads should

1141
01:04:57,360 --> 01:05:03,210
go. And then our software adds
it. But though, I've seen so

1142
01:05:03,210 --> 01:05:07,800
many different implementations
of this, and my take on dynamic

1143
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:13,260
ads are just, you know, I have,
unlike unlike Adam, um, we have

1144
01:05:13,260 --> 01:05:17,760
done lots and lots of ads over
the years in my shows. And, you

1145
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:21,810
know, I always look at no
agenda, and I'm like, I should

1146
01:05:21,810 --> 01:05:22,920
have done it that way. I should.

1147
01:05:23,430 --> 01:05:24,540
Not too late man.

1148
01:05:24,899 --> 01:05:28,379
No, and it's not too late.
Unless, like you depend on the

1149
01:05:28,379 --> 01:05:31,889
ads that you have for the, you
know, the income that you need,

1150
01:05:31,949 --> 01:05:35,069
I would love to do stuff.
That's, that's just fully

1151
01:05:35,069 --> 01:05:37,799
listener supported. And most of
the stuff that I'm doing now,

1152
01:05:37,979 --> 01:05:40,799
any new stuff that I work on,
I'm trying to make listener

1153
01:05:40,799 --> 01:05:47,249
supported, because it's better.
But you know, there. It's just

1154
01:05:47,249 --> 01:05:52,919
it's frustrating, because only
bigger shows can get ads. And so

1155
01:05:52,919 --> 01:05:55,949
you have people who don't have a
lot of downloads, and I've heard

1156
01:05:55,949 --> 01:05:58,739
this argument made by a lot of
fireside customers for why they

1157
01:05:58,739 --> 01:06:01,709
want it. I've told them, like,
you know, dynamically inserted

1158
01:06:01,709 --> 01:06:05,099
ads, they don't really work.
They don't really perform that

1159
01:06:05,099 --> 01:06:08,549
well. And in my opinion, in many
cases, they detract from the

1160
01:06:08,549 --> 01:06:11,579
quality of the show, they
interrupt the show, it sounds

1161
01:06:11,579 --> 01:06:14,759
different. It doesn't sound
genuine, even if it's host read.

1162
01:06:14,969 --> 01:06:18,869
And it they don't from what
we've always heard from all of

1163
01:06:18,869 --> 01:06:22,079
the sponsors that I've worked
with, for, you know, since since

1164
01:06:22,079 --> 01:06:28,079
2006, is that they don't work
well, either. And they cheat. I

1165
01:06:28,079 --> 01:06:31,859
believe they cheapen the
podcasts. And so the people who,

1166
01:06:31,919 --> 01:06:34,889
who let me just finish this
point, the PA system that they

1167
01:06:34,889 --> 01:06:40,649
want them have said, Oh, well, I
might make $25 a month doing

1168
01:06:40,649 --> 01:06:43,349
this. And I said yeah, but like
you're screwing up your podcasts

1169
01:06:43,349 --> 01:06:46,109
like right, but that's 25 bucks
a month. I could save up and get

1170
01:06:46,109 --> 01:06:48,719
a new microphone or something.
Well, I guess that's a that's a

1171
01:06:48,719 --> 01:06:52,079
point. Right? But why bro? I
don't love that.

1172
01:06:52,590 --> 01:06:58,320
I brought clips. So Adam play.
If you want to hear if you want

1173
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:03,030
to hear some dynamic adduser
Yeah. Like clip one. This is

1174
01:07:03,030 --> 01:07:06,900
from this is from a Spotify
original. What is the name of

1175
01:07:06,900 --> 01:07:07,830
this show? Let's see

1176
01:07:07,830 --> 01:07:08,970
mama knows best.

1177
01:07:09,150 --> 01:07:11,250
Mama knows best. That's it.
Thank

1178
01:07:11,250 --> 01:07:14,490
you guys for all the support
with the podcast. And I'm super

1179
01:07:14,490 --> 01:07:18,480
excited to see how you guys like
the new updates. So I love you

1180
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:20,790
all so much. And let's get into
it.

1181
01:07:21,510 --> 01:07:25,950
Okay, stop. Stop it. You're
about to hear this. This is this

1182
01:07:25,950 --> 01:07:32,160
is a Spotify exclusive. So this
Spotify has got the full stack,

1183
01:07:32,220 --> 01:07:37,080
right? You know, MIT, humongous
mega company. There. They can

1184
01:07:37,410 --> 01:07:41,790
they can laser focus, their
dynamic ad insertion.

1185
01:07:43,980 --> 01:07:46,170
With surgical precision,
surgical

1186
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:49,380
precision. Yes, surgical
precision. Alright, go.

1187
01:07:49,530 --> 01:07:50,700
And let's get into it.

1188
01:07:54,930 --> 01:07:57,180
So, before this episode,

1189
01:07:58,380 --> 01:08:02,280
how do you spend it? Okay, so he
cuts her off in the in the

1190
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:03,990
middle of a word. It's like,

1191
01:08:04,020 --> 01:08:07,920
so boom. Ad came? Two seconds
too late.

1192
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:13,470
Yeah, I mean, if if Spotify is
that is their whole deal. And I

1193
01:08:13,470 --> 01:08:17,400
mean, is is top to bottom, we
get the full stack man, laser

1194
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:21,750
precision surgical. We can
stick. It's horrible. Horrible.

1195
01:08:21,780 --> 01:08:24,480
And it cuts it off mid word. I
mean, if they can't even do it,

1196
01:08:24,480 --> 01:08:27,420
right. Well, I mean, what I
mean, it's just not, it's not

1197
01:08:27,420 --> 01:08:27,990
doable.

1198
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:32,040
That's, you know, you wonder you
wonder is that because the host

1199
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:35,610
of the show or the producer of
the show? Put the timecode in

1200
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:38,910
wrong by a second or half
second, or because the person

1201
01:08:38,910 --> 01:08:42,060
recording it didn't leave enough
of a gap. And the other thing

1202
01:08:42,060 --> 01:08:45,360
is, what if you don't have any
spot at all? How do you intro

1203
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:48,180
it? Do you say oh, we want to
thank our sponsor, how sad and

1204
01:08:48,180 --> 01:08:51,300
then you're back, like, you
know, like, it's, there's so

1205
01:08:51,300 --> 01:08:54,330
much that has not been really
explored.

1206
01:08:54,660 --> 01:09:04,020
We had pod show we were doing
this 12 years ago. We were I

1207
01:09:04,020 --> 01:09:08,700
know we experimented with ad
insertion. But the thing that

1208
01:09:08,700 --> 01:09:12,990
was the most exciting, which I'm
gonna give Spotify, a free idea.

1209
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:16,710
We had the golden ticket
blatantly stolen from Willy

1210
01:09:16,710 --> 01:09:20,880
Wonka. And we had, I don't know,
20 different shows. And they

1211
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:23,790
were promoting that if you
listen to their show, you had a

1212
01:09:23,790 --> 01:09:26,970
chance of getting the golden
ticket. And so we had, I think

1213
01:09:26,970 --> 01:09:31,680
10 or 15 golden tickets for some
prize. And we would literally

1214
01:09:31,980 --> 01:09:37,530
insert that into just one or two
in those 15 individually served

1215
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:41,220
mp3 is across these different
shows that some random generator

1216
01:09:41,220 --> 01:09:44,280
would come up with. And someone
would hear you won the Golden

1217
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:47,550
Ticket right in the middle of
kind of show. More or less the

1218
01:09:47,550 --> 01:09:50,550
spot Well, this was all post
produced. So we knew exactly

1219
01:09:50,550 --> 01:09:53,760
where to put the timecode in.
But it was you know, for like

1220
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:58,620
one individual person. It was
very cool at the time and but

1221
01:09:58,620 --> 01:10:02,160
that was kind of for a gaming A
fun element. And now it's just

1222
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:07,020
become a, it's almost as bad as
early cable television into

1223
01:10:07,020 --> 01:10:09,180
still happens today, you know,
when you're when your local

1224
01:10:09,180 --> 01:10:12,510
cable station cuts to a break,
but there's something messes up

1225
01:10:12,510 --> 01:10:15,150
with the timecode. And you see
part of the national spot and it

1226
01:10:15,150 --> 01:10:18,090
cuts that off and it comes back
and you get your car dealership.

1227
01:10:18,420 --> 01:10:21,450
And these things. No one's
really ever perfected it.

1228
01:10:23,070 --> 01:10:26,310
Yeah, it's all of this is very
tough and very confusing. And,

1229
01:10:26,550 --> 01:10:30,240
you know, the funny thing is
that for so long, everyone said,

1230
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:33,750
Wow, podcasting, it's so much
better than radio. And one of

1231
01:10:33,750 --> 01:10:36,330
the big reasons that they always
said it was better than radio is

1232
01:10:36,330 --> 01:10:39,870
because it didn't have stupid
intrusive ads. And guess what

1233
01:10:39,870 --> 01:10:40,770
we're getting?

1234
01:10:41,370 --> 01:10:43,890
Well, Dan, I can't tell you how
to run your business. And I

1235
01:10:43,890 --> 01:10:48,210
never would. But it seems to me
if you added a value block

1236
01:10:48,210 --> 01:10:53,070
feature and sold, sold little
mini nodes to your customers for

1237
01:10:53,070 --> 01:10:57,750
a couple extra bucks a month.
They could probably coerce their

1238
01:10:57,750 --> 01:11:02,370
own audiences into into pledging
money to listen and they would

1239
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:06,570
have would get to that $25 a
month pretty quickly. I think

1240
01:11:06,570 --> 01:11:09,510
you're right. Now I need you
don't really have to learn how

1241
01:11:09,510 --> 01:11:17,580
to pitch other than pay pledge.
You know, just and and do it for

1242
01:11:17,580 --> 01:11:18,960
all the podcasts you like,

1243
01:11:20,130 --> 01:11:24,060
trying to decide which is worse,
a dynamic ad insertion or a host

1244
01:11:24,060 --> 01:11:28,050
read that is just like, so
obvious that the person has it

1245
01:11:28,260 --> 01:11:31,860
as no idea what their what their
pitch. And those are, those are

1246
01:11:31,860 --> 01:11:34,890
sometimes painful to listen
well, so bad

1247
01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:37,680
as long as you can fast forward
and you get that outside of

1248
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:40,590
Spotify and Spotify. So if you
can't fast forward through the

1249
01:11:40,590 --> 01:11:44,610
ads. So I love Megan Kelly's
podcast. I think she's a pro

1250
01:11:44,610 --> 01:11:49,020
podcaster You know, it helps if
you're rich. Because you know,

1251
01:11:49,020 --> 01:11:53,580
podcasting is a vow of poverty.
But when she goes into a host

1252
01:11:53,580 --> 01:11:59,250
read, I'm like, fast forward.
Like it's so demeaning to her

1253
01:11:59,250 --> 01:12:03,630
even like you shouldn't be
reading this Megan, this icky. I

1254
01:12:03,630 --> 01:12:04,140
don't like it.

1255
01:12:05,310 --> 01:12:10,830
What, what it what podcasts are
you currently excited about are

1256
01:12:10,830 --> 01:12:13,530
doing, Dan because I know you've
always seemed to have, you know,

1257
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:17,250
a dozen irons in the fire. I
remember. I think the podcast

1258
01:12:17,250 --> 01:12:20,340
that I listened to, I think the
first podcast I ever heard with

1259
01:12:20,340 --> 01:12:25,410
you and it was back to work now.
And okay, so I'll give you the

1260
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:30,120
the back to work podcast is the
podcast that made me stop

1261
01:12:30,120 --> 01:12:36,900
listening to podcasts at one and
a half speed dial. Yeah, I was

1262
01:12:36,900 --> 01:12:40,530
like, I would always set it to
one and one and a half speed

1263
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:45,660
with this with shortened
silences and listening in if you

1264
01:12:45,660 --> 01:12:50,190
start listening to Merlin man,
no, with that, it's like luck.

1265
01:12:50,370 --> 01:12:54,270
Yeah, I mean, it's like, you
know, he's like you're on crack

1266
01:12:54,270 --> 01:12:57,570
or something. I mean, it's like
the you know, yeah, no, no, I

1267
01:12:57,570 --> 01:13:00,750
can't do this. That got me out
of that habit. But what are you

1268
01:13:00,780 --> 01:13:03,930
what what podcasts are you into
right now?

1269
01:13:04,110 --> 01:13:09,150
Well, the references that Merlin
drops require Oh, you know like

1270
01:13:09,180 --> 01:13:13,020
he's so fast and I don't
understand how anyone could

1271
01:13:13,020 --> 01:13:16,020
listen to that at anything but
one time speed and then you

1272
01:13:16,020 --> 01:13:19,320
always get the people commenting
like I heard you guys talking on

1273
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:23,490
one one time speed and you both
sound like you're drunk. I'm

1274
01:13:23,610 --> 01:13:26,580
really what is the rest of the
world sound like to you? How do

1275
01:13:26,580 --> 01:13:30,540
you function in the real world
when with people talking at one

1276
01:13:30,540 --> 01:13:32,940
speed like it must be really
painful for you.

1277
01:13:33,300 --> 01:13:37,200
I think your brain up I think
you can't like after a while I

1278
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:40,920
would notice that when I got
home from work on a on a commute

1279
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:43,620
and I started to get out of the
car when is to start talking to

1280
01:13:43,620 --> 01:13:47,130
my wife. I'm like this.
Something doesn't feel right.

1281
01:13:47,190 --> 01:13:49,080
Yeah, you're like Hurry up,
honey, hurry up, get to the

1282
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:51,330
point. What do you want to say?
What's going on here? Come on,

1283
01:13:51,330 --> 01:13:51,480
come

1284
01:13:51,480 --> 01:13:54,390
on. Come on. It's like you're
it's like you've lived in an

1285
01:13:54,390 --> 01:13:57,630
episode of Gilmore Girls for the
last hour and a half. And now

1286
01:13:57,630 --> 01:14:00,360
you and now nobody told no,
there's the witty banter.

1287
01:14:01,980 --> 01:14:03,900
exactly what it is. Yes.

1288
01:14:03,900 --> 01:14:04,830
Right. Right.

1289
01:14:04,950 --> 01:14:09,480
Well, I have a very clear stance
on this fast listening I I

1290
01:14:09,480 --> 01:14:13,980
believe I deliver a piece of art
with every show and I question

1291
01:14:13,980 --> 01:14:19,350
if you jog past the Mona Lisa
dammit. I think you should be

1292
01:14:19,350 --> 01:14:22,620
listening to my art and regular
speed the way I intended it.

1293
01:14:23,820 --> 01:14:26,280
I don't know why people are in
such a hurry that you know the

1294
01:14:26,310 --> 01:14:29,490
the response that I got when I
used to really chastise people

1295
01:14:29,490 --> 01:14:32,850
about this eventually just gave
up but I used to get like all

1296
01:14:32,850 --> 01:14:36,510
bent out of shape about it was
you know, people said, Well, if

1297
01:14:36,510 --> 01:14:39,630
I can't listen it two times,
then I won't be listening at all

1298
01:14:39,630 --> 01:14:42,540
because I don't have enough time
in the day. I'm like, really,

1299
01:14:42,630 --> 01:14:45,360
really? Like do you fast
forward? Do you watch your shows

1300
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:48,570
on fast forward? That will if I
could I would? Yeah. Well, I

1301
01:14:48,570 --> 01:14:51,660
agree with Dave on this. I think
it messes people's brains up.

1302
01:14:51,660 --> 01:14:54,420
They get antsy. It probably goes
well with the Adderall

1303
01:14:54,420 --> 01:15:01,380
generation. But I think it's it
it may have Some longer term

1304
01:15:01,380 --> 01:15:06,510
cognitive effects on how you how
you vary posture for things. I

1305
01:15:06,510 --> 01:15:09,300
don't know. I mean, you know, if
you they say if you put on

1306
01:15:09,300 --> 01:15:12,300
glasses that invert everything
within a day or two, you see a

1307
01:15:12,300 --> 01:15:13,440
normal. Yeah,

1308
01:15:13,440 --> 01:15:15,450
I don't understand that. I've
heard the same thing. And it

1309
01:15:15,450 --> 01:15:16,740
freaks me out a little bit. I'm

1310
01:15:16,740 --> 01:15:17,670
wearing it right now.

1311
01:15:21,300 --> 01:15:23,340
So Dave, you're asking what
shows I do or what what I

1312
01:15:23,340 --> 01:15:23,970
listened to?

1313
01:15:24,329 --> 01:15:27,119
Now, what do you do? Which shows
are you excited about doing

1314
01:15:27,119 --> 01:15:27,449
right now?

1315
01:15:27,510 --> 01:15:30,540
So the ones that I've been I've
been doing back to work you

1316
01:15:30,540 --> 01:15:39,540
mentioned with Merlin man since
January of 2011, I think. Yeah.

1317
01:15:39,540 --> 01:15:42,360
And we're, we're, we're still
having fun with it. I still love

1318
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:45,330
talking to Merlin every week.
And, and so I'm, I'm always

1319
01:15:45,330 --> 01:15:48,120
still happy to do that one. I do
a show with john Roderick, like

1320
01:15:48,120 --> 01:15:51,510
I mentioned before, called
roadwork, which we started doing

1321
01:15:51,510 --> 01:15:55,380
off the top of my head, I'm
gonna say back in maybe august

1322
01:15:55,620 --> 01:16:01,080
of 25th 18. I think sounds
right. So we've been doing that

1323
01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:05,760
show for a long time. I do a
show called quit, where I help

1324
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:10,050
people who write in or sometimes
call in, they figure out what

1325
01:16:10,050 --> 01:16:12,420
they're doing with their mainly
their business, their career,

1326
01:16:12,420 --> 01:16:14,670
that kind of thing. And that's a
show that I've always had a lot

1327
01:16:14,670 --> 01:16:18,000
of fun with. And, and I love the
letters that I get and the

1328
01:16:18,030 --> 01:16:22,290
questions that people ask. It's
just it's so much fun. And then

1329
01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:25,800
there's, there's two other shows
that I'm coming out with. One of

1330
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:30,120
them is there is sort of a
running joke on a couple my

1331
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:33,720
other shows that we would always
get feedback from people saying

1332
01:16:33,930 --> 01:16:38,400
how they listen to us or me and
it puts them to sleep. They

1333
01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:40,800
listen at night when they're
falling asleep. And I said well,

1334
01:16:41,190 --> 01:16:44,970
then I'll just do a show
designed to do that. So go, I'm

1335
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:48,750
I'm doing I'm going into the
because you've got to use public

1336
01:16:48,750 --> 01:16:51,690
domain books. So I'm going to be
reading public domain books like

1337
01:16:51,690 --> 01:16:54,990
the first one then I let people
vote I let people vote. They

1338
01:16:54,990 --> 01:16:58,260
picked were the world's Ah, so
I'm gonna be I'm gonna be

1339
01:16:58,260 --> 01:17:01,200
reading more of the world's two
people to help them chill out.

1340
01:17:01,200 --> 01:17:04,830
And so that shows called the
evening read. And and then after

1341
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:06,870
afterward the world's they'll
pick the next book, and I'll

1342
01:17:06,870 --> 01:17:09,450
just read them and they can
listen to them and enjoy them.

1343
01:17:09,450 --> 01:17:09,990
See, that is

1344
01:17:10,500 --> 01:17:11,520
a great idea.

1345
01:17:11,580 --> 01:17:15,450
That's the perfect idea for the
value blog, because they sleep

1346
01:17:15,450 --> 01:17:16,650
and it stays running.

1347
01:17:19,530 --> 01:17:22,800
Literally while they sleep
instead of why sleep. It's

1348
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:27,630
genius. And, and then the other
show is a show that I've been

1349
01:17:27,630 --> 01:17:34,350
wanting to do for a very, very,
very long time. That that is,

1350
01:17:34,530 --> 01:17:38,280
you know, very, I just want to
do it the right way. So I've

1351
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:41,280
been really procrastinating and
I'm no I'm overthinking it now,

1352
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:44,670
but I want to do a show where I
add them where I explore a

1353
01:17:44,670 --> 01:17:51,030
different kinds of alternate
reality kind of things, whether

1354
01:17:51,030 --> 01:17:57,210
it's UFOs, or alien abduction or
simulation theory, or as always

1355
01:17:57,210 --> 01:17:57,600
trying to

1356
01:17:58,230 --> 01:18:01,410
do another show with him. Yeah,
he's trying to suck me in once

1357
01:18:01,410 --> 01:18:04,620
again. No, Dan, you lost your
shot, man. You lost it. I

1358
01:18:04,620 --> 01:18:07,650
did. I know. This was this was
10 years ago.

1359
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:11,340
Now you didn't lose anything. My
brother didn't lose anything.

1360
01:18:11,760 --> 01:18:14,610
Oh, prove me wrong, then come to
the show with me.

1361
01:18:14,670 --> 01:18:17,070
No. You know, right now you

1362
01:18:17,070 --> 01:18:20,400
started like 20 different shows.
Since then. I've been talking

1363
01:18:20,400 --> 01:18:23,130
about I feel left out over here
and we're in Austin together.

1364
01:18:23,130 --> 01:18:24,300
We're Austin brothers.

1365
01:18:24,330 --> 01:18:28,740
No, I got I'm producing five
shows a week now. This is this

1366
01:18:28,740 --> 01:18:28,920
is

1367
01:18:28,950 --> 01:18:31,410
how much worse would be to do
one more.

1368
01:18:33,150 --> 01:18:34,950
much difference between five and
six. I thought

1369
01:18:35,580 --> 01:18:37,920
five was the max that's what I
always learned.

1370
01:18:39,750 --> 01:18:43,260
Alright, but I only listen Dave
I only listen to one podcast

1371
01:18:43,260 --> 01:18:46,710
well to now. No agenda and then
this show. Yeah. No.

1372
01:18:48,030 --> 01:18:50,400
Shit. Nice.

1373
01:18:50,580 --> 01:18:55,050
No, what I love about podcasting
2.0 since it never got what got

1374
01:18:55,050 --> 01:19:00,630
rejected for image reasons. At
the apple index, I never re

1375
01:19:00,630 --> 01:19:04,410
submitted it to now whenever I'm
trying a podcast I know real

1376
01:19:04,410 --> 01:19:08,370
quick if they're tied into
podcasts index.org or not. Okay,

1377
01:19:08,430 --> 01:19:09,780
you don't you're not tied in

1378
01:19:10,890 --> 01:19:12,180
my secret weapon site.

1379
01:19:12,270 --> 01:19:14,880
Wait, you're saying Apple Apple
rejected the show.

1380
01:19:15,480 --> 01:19:19,620
It was the artwork was something
wrong size or God knows what it

1381
01:19:19,620 --> 01:19:20,100
was? And

1382
01:19:20,369 --> 01:19:23,819
they want I think they want 3000
by 3000 pixel. Yeah,

1383
01:19:23,820 --> 01:19:27,840
I think I think I gave him 2000
by 2000. And then he got

1384
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:31,170
rejected. And I was like, you
know, yeah, I'm just gonna leave

1385
01:19:31,170 --> 01:19:33,300
it. Let's just let's just not
registered, and it's become a

1386
01:19:33,300 --> 01:19:36,390
really handy tool. Now it's
like, let me see, because these

1387
01:19:36,390 --> 01:19:39,090
guys say they're not they're not
integrated with our index. Hold

1388
01:19:39,090 --> 01:19:41,850
on a second. Otherwise, you'd
find this show could

1389
01:19:42,119 --> 01:19:45,419
like that. That's a good topic
because we eat it. You know,

1390
01:19:45,419 --> 01:19:50,819
part of the idea of starting the
index was living outside the

1391
01:19:50,819 --> 01:19:57,269
apple ecosystem so that we have
an independent index of podcasts

1392
01:19:57,269 --> 01:20:00,959
that don't require Apple to be
the sort of thing The universe

1393
01:20:01,409 --> 01:20:07,109
and because it just not it
doesn't make sense for us it

1394
01:20:07,109 --> 01:20:11,219
makes sense for one for a large
many basically the largest

1395
01:20:11,369 --> 01:20:15,689
corporate entity in the world to
be also the default Yellow Pages

1396
01:20:15,689 --> 01:20:20,069
for what is supposed to be an
open an open standards

1397
01:20:20,069 --> 01:20:24,779
ecosystem. Right and so we we do
a lot of things if you look at

1398
01:20:24,779 --> 01:20:28,889
our you know how much total how
many total feeds we have it's

1399
01:20:28,889 --> 01:20:33,299
lower than some other you know,
we've we've got roughly 1.3

1400
01:20:33,299 --> 01:20:36,269
something million feeds and
others it's like three

1401
01:20:36,300 --> 01:20:40,140
hours old guys like what do you
expect? Like you know what I'm

1402
01:20:40,140 --> 01:20:43,710
saying like a barely launched
this thing. It's just give it

1403
01:20:43,710 --> 01:20:47,850
time. We have crazy how many
you've got in the time that

1404
01:20:47,850 --> 01:20:51,270
you've been out? It's crazy. How
many you've got? Well, I

1405
01:20:51,270 --> 01:20:54,990
appreciate fires, appreciate
you. Because, like me, y'all

1406
01:20:54,990 --> 01:20:58,260
started auto submitting your new
fates to us. I mean, God early.

1407
01:20:58,650 --> 01:21:02,970
Well, I was like, within a week
of when we quote unquote,

1408
01:21:02,970 --> 01:21:05,160
launched it was the squishy
isn't. It was

1409
01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:08,340
wasn't a launch is more like we
leaked under the door.

1410
01:21:09,990 --> 01:21:11,310
It was like a blob.

1411
01:21:12,930 --> 01:21:15,600
Yeah, it's like, but I mean, it
was within seriously, like a

1412
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:20,160
week? They did. fireside was
like, yeah, we're good. We're on

1413
01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:23,160
board. I was like, wow, that's
fantastic. I think y'all were

1414
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:27,360
the first one to start auto
submitting to us. And, man, I

1415
01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:32,310
really appreciate that. Because
so not you really, you because I

1416
01:21:32,310 --> 01:21:39,780
don't want I don't want to be
scraping to try to get data, I

1417
01:21:39,780 --> 01:21:43,290
don't want to scrape Apple to
try to find new feeds on a

1418
01:21:43,290 --> 01:21:47,430
contract basis. I just feel like
this ideologically opposed to

1419
01:21:47,430 --> 01:21:50,910
the thing we're trying to do,
which is not dependent on them.

1420
01:21:51,210 --> 01:21:54,300
So like, the only way to really
make that happen is to have

1421
01:21:54,300 --> 01:21:59,490
independent streams of of data
coming in that are giving dinner

1422
01:21:59,490 --> 01:22:03,450
handing you new feeds, and we
get we get large dumps csvs

1423
01:22:03,450 --> 01:22:05,700
people sending it to us that's
the part I

1424
01:22:05,700 --> 01:22:09,690
really enjoyed is there's
there's definitely data guys out

1425
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:13,500
in the in the universe, who've
been collecting feeds and

1426
01:22:13,650 --> 01:22:18,930
categorizing them carefully, you
know, Polish radio stations, all

1427
01:22:18,930 --> 01:22:21,330
kinds of interesting
collections. And they show up

1428
01:22:21,360 --> 01:22:24,240
like, oh, here, here you go, I
got 5000 feeds that you've never

1429
01:22:24,240 --> 01:22:26,550
heard of before. That's really
cool.

1430
01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:31,230
It's been great. And then the
host Yeah, the holsters auto

1431
01:22:31,230 --> 01:22:34,170
submitting like you guys, I
mean, if everybody auto

1432
01:22:34,170 --> 01:22:38,490
submitted, because what we do is
we we also expose a, you know,

1433
01:22:38,490 --> 01:22:42,930
an endpoint where every new feed
that we get, we also publish

1434
01:22:42,930 --> 01:22:46,380
right back so you can, you know,
you can follow it. So it's kind

1435
01:22:46,380 --> 01:22:50,130
of a clearinghouse model. And if
everybody thought of submits

1436
01:22:50,130 --> 01:22:53,280
their new feats to us, then we
can just hand them right back

1437
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:56,370
out. And that can help other
indexes to be created.

1438
01:22:56,370 --> 01:23:00,930
Absolutely. Yeah. And then and
then we can, you know, we do we

1439
01:23:00,930 --> 01:23:02,460
can have redundancy, and don't

1440
01:23:02,460 --> 01:23:04,770
we have at least one index
taking that in point?

1441
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:08,100
I think pod versus pod verse,

1442
01:23:08,220 --> 01:23:11,220
take it maybe pod verse account,
someone, someone somebody

1443
01:23:11,220 --> 01:23:15,180
does it? Yeah, yeah. But I think
it's it, it, it's really nice to

1444
01:23:15,180 --> 01:23:20,850
see, to see everybody feeding to
us, because even though we may

1445
01:23:20,850 --> 01:23:25,710
not have everything, you know,
we're building slowly, and then,

1446
01:23:25,860 --> 01:23:29,160
you know, what we'll have at the
end of the day is, is is a

1447
01:23:29,160 --> 01:23:33,750
decentralized index, where
everybody can participate. And

1448
01:23:33,750 --> 01:23:37,860
you don't have to depend on, you
know, what would be great is one

1449
01:23:37,860 --> 01:23:42,120
day, you know, is one day Apple
participates as just another

1450
01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:45,870
peer, that'd be amazing. Yeah,
instead, and that way, you

1451
01:23:45,870 --> 01:23:48,930
wouldn't have to depend on, you
know, well, Apple rejected my

1452
01:23:48,930 --> 01:23:51,390
feed. And, you know, now I gotta
do all this other stuff, and

1453
01:23:51,390 --> 01:23:54,300
resubmit, and wait five days to
see if it gets okay. And all

1454
01:23:54,300 --> 01:23:57,270
this kind of jazz, you know, you
just you just crank up your, you

1455
01:23:57,270 --> 01:24:00,960
know, your, your feed at that
host at farside, or wherever,

1456
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:05,430
and it just replicates through
all the indexes in one shot.

1457
01:24:06,060 --> 01:24:06,900
You hear that Apple,

1458
01:24:06,930 --> 01:24:07,680
you hear that?

1459
01:24:09,780 --> 01:24:10,890
Take that endpoint I

1460
01:24:10,890 --> 01:24:15,090
love. I love what you guys are
doing. And it's great to be a

1461
01:24:15,090 --> 01:24:17,760
because it feels very cutting
edge. It feels like the first

1462
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:23,100
thing that I've seen anybody do
in this space in a long time, or

1463
01:24:23,100 --> 01:24:26,940
maybe at all, to really start to
try to move things forward. And

1464
01:24:26,940 --> 01:24:32,490
you guys are doing it, not as a
company like apple or Spotify,

1465
01:24:32,490 --> 01:24:35,220
who's doing it for monetization,
you're doing it for the

1466
01:24:35,220 --> 01:24:37,470
community, you're doing it for
the industry, you're doing it

1467
01:24:37,470 --> 01:24:40,650
for the podcasters and that any
anything that like we can do to

1468
01:24:40,650 --> 01:24:44,580
support that is like, I don't
see it as optional, although

1469
01:24:44,580 --> 01:24:47,670
it's fun to do, and I like it
and I'm happy to when I'm doing

1470
01:24:47,670 --> 01:24:50,640
it. It's to me, it's like yeah,
of course you're gonna do what

1471
01:24:50,640 --> 01:24:54,390
you need to do to support this
industry. And and we appreciate

1472
01:24:54,390 --> 01:24:57,930
the support you've given because
just participating, you know,

1473
01:24:57,960 --> 01:25:01,680
hitting the API with whatever is
appropriate. That's exactly what

1474
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:03,570
we need. And we really
appreciate that this

1475
01:25:03,570 --> 01:25:08,640
is, of course, a value for value
project. This is also a value

1476
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:15,540
from value podcast. Again, to
show how well this idea works,

1477
01:25:15,540 --> 01:25:18,930
if you say, Hey, are you
listening? Are you using the

1478
01:25:18,930 --> 01:25:23,580
index the API? Is this valuable
to you? What is that value? send

1479
01:25:23,580 --> 01:25:26,340
it back to us. Now, of course,
we have a beautiful red Donate

1480
01:25:26,340 --> 01:25:30,600
button on podcast. index.org. We
also have a lightning invoice

1481
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:33,720
there, which from time to time,
someone shows up and does a

1482
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:37,020
subscription, which is really
nice. We've had some really

1483
01:25:38,640 --> 01:25:42,480
gracious people who have been
helping us out. Because Yeah, we

1484
01:25:42,480 --> 01:25:46,020
did start it from a from the
entire value for value

1485
01:25:46,050 --> 01:25:49,110
perspective. If this is not
valuable, it will dry up and

1486
01:25:49,110 --> 01:25:52,260
blow away. But it's not. And
Dave, you have a couple of

1487
01:25:52,260 --> 01:25:55,770
people need to thank who have
who sent in donations if you

1488
01:25:55,770 --> 01:25:59,070
don't mind. Damn, we're just
gonna now of course, we got a

1489
01:25:59,070 --> 01:26:01,230
huge donation from an anonymous
donor.

1490
01:26:01,740 --> 01:26:07,170
Yeah. And we we are Yeah, I can
I can tell Dan wants to be in

1491
01:26:07,470 --> 01:26:09,420
donations. That means I can hear
in his voice. Yes,

1492
01:26:09,450 --> 01:26:12,300
of course. He does. Absolutely.
participate. Yes. Yeah.

1493
01:26:14,550 --> 01:26:20,070
See, here we got quite a few
here. See Leslie Martin. Did a

1494
01:26:20,070 --> 01:26:26,940
to $2 a month subscription. Oh,
and dandy. No, Leslie. And not

1495
01:26:26,940 --> 01:26:33,720
not that wall. Okay. Leslie
Martin, says it. I'm sorry.

1496
01:26:36,150 --> 01:26:39,510
My wife. Like what's going on?

1497
01:26:41,070 --> 01:26:42,330
No, no, I

1498
01:26:42,330 --> 01:26:44,580
don't I thought Leslie may be in
the Austin club.

1499
01:26:45,240 --> 01:26:48,690
Just trying to draw down into
our value for value segment

1500
01:26:48,690 --> 01:26:50,430
aren't Yes. No matter what you
do.

1501
01:26:51,330 --> 01:26:54,000
If that if she she

1502
01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:57,120
and I saw the Guns and Roses New
Year's Eve concert.

1503
01:26:59,310 --> 01:27:01,320
Oh, that one? Yeah.

1504
01:27:01,740 --> 01:27:04,290
Is that is that the one where
Axl Rose was two hours late or

1505
01:27:04,290 --> 01:27:05,190
two and a half hours late

1506
01:27:05,190 --> 01:27:07,890
guys. This is like a morning
zoo. Now all of a sudden.

1507
01:27:12,870 --> 01:27:18,090
Like if that if Dan had a had a
lightning node, we could put him

1508
01:27:18,090 --> 01:27:18,810
in the block

1509
01:27:19,590 --> 01:27:22,830
to show us right. That's right.
All fall

1510
01:27:23,190 --> 01:27:24,870
into lightning. Node

1511
01:27:26,670 --> 01:27:29,940
voltage.io you can get it
getting

1512
01:27:29,940 --> 01:27:30,990
paid right now.

1513
01:27:31,109 --> 01:27:32,159
Yes. As we

1514
01:27:32,160 --> 01:27:34,890
saw, I'm going as fast as I can.
You'd be like,

1515
01:27:35,369 --> 01:27:38,279
like I could. I could do another
podcast. I would just sit back

1516
01:27:38,279 --> 01:27:41,399
and watch this. A Toshi is
rolling baby pass. That's the

1517
01:27:41,399 --> 01:27:43,739
choice you'll have to make 10 in
a

1518
01:27:43,740 --> 01:27:50,100
month, you'd have $15 just like
we did. Okay, so Leslie sent a

1519
01:27:50,100 --> 01:27:55,020
note and I don't know if Leslie
I'm looking for keywords in here

1520
01:27:55,080 --> 01:27:58,320
where Leslie could say to give
me a clue as to whether Leslie

1521
01:27:58,320 --> 01:28:01,680
is a boy or girl so it says

1522
01:28:02,130 --> 01:28:04,830
that that could that could that
could be either couldn't Yep,

1523
01:28:04,890 --> 01:28:05,310
yeah,

1524
01:28:05,340 --> 01:28:09,690
yeah. First let me say that I'm
not a developer. I don't work

1525
01:28:09,690 --> 01:28:13,350
for a hosting company. And I'm
not currently a podcaster Oh, I

1526
01:28:13,350 --> 01:28:16,140
get well no, this doesn't help
either. This is even my wife

1527
01:28:16,140 --> 01:28:18,090
doesn't listen to me these days

1528
01:28:18,660 --> 01:28:21,030
doesn't mean shit as a mattering
doesn't matter.

1529
01:28:22,200 --> 01:28:26,910
Why would I think anyone else
would want to listen to me but I

1530
01:28:26,910 --> 01:28:29,700
am a listener. Adams always
talking about paying what

1531
01:28:29,700 --> 01:28:32,940
something is worth to you. My
donation a mere $2 a month don't

1532
01:28:32,940 --> 01:28:33,660
call it mere

1533
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:36,240
No, it's that's your value.
Leslie. Yeah,

1534
01:28:36,330 --> 01:28:39,690
yeah, that's not mere doesn't
reflect what the podcasts in the

1535
01:28:39,690 --> 01:28:42,570
index project are to me because
I can't afford what I consider

1536
01:28:42,570 --> 01:28:44,790
to be their value. It's merely
what I can afford.

1537
01:28:44,820 --> 01:28:48,600
Yeah, but that's on top value
for you. So we really appreciate

1538
01:28:48,600 --> 01:28:48,930
that.

1539
01:28:49,290 --> 01:28:51,510
Yep. Thank you, Leslie.
Appreciate that. Every

1540
01:28:51,510 --> 01:28:54,330
everything we there is no limit
for reading donations on the

1541
01:28:54,330 --> 01:28:59,730
show. No. It's there's there's
no bottom floor. Thank you,

1542
01:28:59,730 --> 01:29:04,620
Leslie. And, well, we had one
cancellation of an automatic

1543
01:29:04,770 --> 01:29:08,010
subscription. That's that hurts.

1544
01:29:09,450 --> 01:29:11,640
How much was that? How much did
you guys lose?

1545
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:13,320
$10 that's,

1546
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:17,040
that's that's an aggregate an
aggregator server Yeah, yeah,

1547
01:29:17,190 --> 01:29:18,930
I shut it down shut it down.

1548
01:29:19,740 --> 01:29:26,730
Click Click Click man down Yes.
And on that same note thank you

1549
01:29:26,730 --> 01:29:30,960
to our month our monthly donors
because they a few more of those

1550
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:35,280
came in and see them when they
may when it when it auto pings

1551
01:29:35,280 --> 01:29:38,310
or whatever. And just want to
make sure that that's that's my

1552
01:29:38,310 --> 01:29:39,300
guys know we love you.

1553
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:43,020
That is so fantastic. Those
recurring because, you know, we

1554
01:29:43,020 --> 01:29:46,710
literally set up an extra
server. It's like Okay, good. We

1555
01:29:46,710 --> 01:29:48,390
know that's running. Appreciate
it.

1556
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:54,150
Yeah, this is this is bare bones
here. Let's see. This says in

1557
01:29:54,150 --> 01:29:58,980
humongous letters. I don't know
why this print. It's a Vegas as

1558
01:29:58,980 --> 01:30:03,270
I wish to remain unknown.
nonnamous gave a gave a fiver to

1559
01:30:03,270 --> 01:30:07,170
podcast, excuse me, gave a fiver
to pocket casts in order to

1560
01:30:07,170 --> 01:30:10,740
promote cut podcast 2.0 features
left me feeling that you deserve

1561
01:30:10,740 --> 01:30:15,090
more. Thank you for your
courage. And that is a $55. One

1562
01:30:15,090 --> 01:30:16,140
time, one time donation.

1563
01:30:16,170 --> 01:30:19,290
Thank you. So trying to get
pocket casts on board. Good.

1564
01:30:19,350 --> 01:30:22,050
That's the work we need. That's
appreciated. Thank you.

1565
01:30:22,980 --> 01:30:30,210
And our final donation is Wes
young. Gave us $25 and his

1566
01:30:30,210 --> 01:30:32,700
message is keep on rockin.

1567
01:30:33,180 --> 01:30:34,920
So we will.

1568
01:30:35,430 --> 01:30:39,540
Thank you, Wes when we will hear
$25 that enables us to rock

1569
01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:42,420
harder than you did before you
get

1570
01:30:43,440 --> 01:30:45,750
how hard Are you rocking right
now, Dave? Just want to make

1571
01:30:45,750 --> 01:30:48,540
sure are you on the high on the
rock? ometer? Oh, yeah.

1572
01:30:48,600 --> 01:30:53,640
Oh, yeah. It's a mosh pit over
here. See? Yeah, this is so as

1573
01:30:53,640 --> 01:30:54,510
our donors for this week.

1574
01:30:54,540 --> 01:30:57,900
Yeah, we appreciate everyone
supporting the project. Again,

1575
01:30:57,900 --> 01:31:00,360
if you want to support us, if
you get any value out of the

1576
01:31:00,360 --> 01:31:03,990
podcast or out of the the index
itself, if you're using one of

1577
01:31:03,990 --> 01:31:07,230
the apps, of course, we really
want you to prepare for

1578
01:31:07,230 --> 01:31:13,440
lightning and for podcasting
2.0. But right now, anything you

1579
01:31:13,440 --> 01:31:17,850
can spare anything you think is
equal to the value you get out

1580
01:31:17,850 --> 01:31:22,290
of this, just go to podcast,
index.org, Big Red Donate button

1581
01:31:22,290 --> 01:31:27,360
down at the bottom, and as well
as a lightning invoice. And on

1582
01:31:27,360 --> 01:31:31,260
many apps, you should just be
able to hit the the donut donut,

1583
01:31:31,290 --> 01:31:32,190
the donate button.

1584
01:31:32,520 --> 01:31:33,630
I want a donut. But don't

1585
01:31:36,630 --> 01:31:41,760
we need a new tag the donut
donut tag? Yeah, that works

1586
01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:45,630
surprisingly well. I like that a
lot when I'm when I use pod

1587
01:31:45,630 --> 01:31:48,090
friend as an example and then
shows the donate button that

1588
01:31:48,090 --> 01:31:51,030
takes you right to the correct
page that that interaction

1589
01:31:51,030 --> 01:31:53,040
turned out to work very well.

1590
01:31:53,640 --> 01:31:56,910
Y'all are doing the funding tag,
right? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

1591
01:31:56,910 --> 01:31:57,060
We

1592
01:31:57,060 --> 01:31:59,460
did all those first tags. So
we've got all that in there.

1593
01:31:59,460 --> 01:32:01,020
Yeah. I like

1594
01:32:01,020 --> 01:32:04,350
the I like the funding tag. I
know, there was There's our it

1595
01:32:04,350 --> 01:32:07,950
was already being done with some
some other stuff with like, atom

1596
01:32:07,950 --> 01:32:10,530
links and that kind of thing.
But I like the funding tag just

1597
01:32:10,530 --> 01:32:14,970
because I felt like it was worth
sort of duplicating that

1598
01:32:14,970 --> 01:32:19,230
functionality. Because it's,
it's simple. Like it simplifies

1599
01:32:19,230 --> 01:32:21,810
everything from an aggregator
standpoint, it's just like,

1600
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:23,820
funding link. Right?

1601
01:32:23,910 --> 01:32:24,660
Right. Hi.

1602
01:32:26,160 --> 01:32:30,090
The now I want to throw
something in, sort of at the

1603
01:32:30,300 --> 01:32:33,930
back end of the donation segment
here. If you're because people

1604
01:32:33,930 --> 01:32:40,530
request readwrite API keys, you
know, on a, on a, on a regular

1605
01:32:40,530 --> 01:32:44,580
basis, I'm not going to grant
permission for a readwrite key

1606
01:32:44,580 --> 01:32:48,090
unless we know who you are on
the on. You need to join

1607
01:32:48,090 --> 01:32:54,720
podcasts index social and, and,
and become like and speak. So we

1608
01:32:54,870 --> 01:32:59,490
so we know who you are, because
we're we don't want shenanigans.

1609
01:32:59,610 --> 01:33:02,220
So for now, for now, this will
change may change in the future.

1610
01:33:02,220 --> 01:33:05,130
But we need to kind of know what
you what you are what you're

1611
01:33:05,130 --> 01:33:07,740
trying to do. I mean, it's fine
to do test and you don't have to

1612
01:33:07,740 --> 01:33:10,470
be like us some kind of app,
it's fine to just be playing

1613
01:33:10,470 --> 01:33:13,620
around but we we do want you to
kind of make yourself known and

1614
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:16,470
and understand what you're going
to do before you begin to read

1615
01:33:16,470 --> 01:33:19,350
write key and you start dumping
but you know loads of garbage

1616
01:33:19,380 --> 01:33:20,760
into the index. You know, that's
we

1617
01:33:20,760 --> 01:33:22,620
haven't had any of that
behavior. Have we?

1618
01:33:23,039 --> 01:33:26,579
No, no, no. All it No.
Everybody's playing very nice.

1619
01:33:27,029 --> 01:33:27,539
Man. Is

1620
01:33:27,540 --> 01:33:30,690
there anything you'd like to see
us do anything we can implement

1621
01:33:30,690 --> 01:33:35,040
streamline? Fix, make better
work? How can we help you? Man,

1622
01:33:35,040 --> 01:33:35,160
I

1623
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:37,710
love what you guys have been
doing. Just Just keep it going.

1624
01:33:37,740 --> 01:33:41,970
And I really there's no, there's
nothing else that I feel right

1625
01:33:41,970 --> 01:33:44,100
now you guys could really be
doing better. I love the way

1626
01:33:44,100 --> 01:33:46,980
that you have launched all this
stuff. Even though you were

1627
01:33:46,980 --> 01:33:50,250
criticizing it. I think it's
actually been really fun. And it

1628
01:33:50,250 --> 01:33:53,940
feels like a real movement to
me. And I love what y'all are

1629
01:33:53,940 --> 01:33:58,200
doing. I wish perfect. I'm
saying you're perfect. I wish I

1630
01:33:58,200 --> 01:34:00,420
wish I had something to say I
wish I was I was thinking oh,

1631
01:34:00,420 --> 01:34:03,330
you need this, you need that.
But really, I love what you're

1632
01:34:03,330 --> 01:34:07,740
doing. And honestly, the input
that you guys take from the

1633
01:34:07,740 --> 01:34:10,080
community and the way that
you're building these different

1634
01:34:10,080 --> 01:34:14,100
things is so really thoughtful.
And Gosh, I really couldn't

1635
01:34:14,100 --> 01:34:16,200
think of anything else to add. I
like the direction that you're

1636
01:34:16,200 --> 01:34:20,850
going in. If you do, the one
thing I might think of is

1637
01:34:21,690 --> 01:34:24,150
you soften the blow. Really No,

1638
01:34:24,150 --> 01:34:25,590
I just as I'm talking

1639
01:34:27,330 --> 01:34:29,310
on the pillow, you're sliding
the pillow underneath,

1640
01:34:29,340 --> 01:34:37,140
maybe maybe you guys could keep
going in this direction that you

1641
01:34:37,140 --> 01:34:41,400
were talking about with chapters
and help bring awareness to what

1642
01:34:41,400 --> 01:34:46,740
else chapters can do. Because I
really don't think that people

1643
01:34:46,740 --> 01:34:49,380
understand the potential that's
there for chapters that think

1644
01:34:49,380 --> 01:34:51,480
they think of it as like, well.
This is segment one, this

1645
01:34:51,480 --> 01:34:55,740
segment two, segment three, but
that almost to me is a way to

1646
01:34:55,740 --> 01:34:58,500
get audience engagement even if
they're just looking because a

1647
01:34:58,500 --> 01:35:01,740
lot of the time people when they
put up podcasts on, it's playing

1648
01:35:01,740 --> 01:35:03,720
in their house or they're doing
what they're doing while they're

1649
01:35:03,720 --> 01:35:05,730
jogging or they're on the
treadmill, or they're doing

1650
01:35:05,730 --> 01:35:08,430
dishes or walking the dog. So
they're not even aware that

1651
01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:11,850
these images are popping up on
their right on their things. So

1652
01:35:11,850 --> 01:35:14,970
I think there's there's an
educational aspect to to the

1653
01:35:14,970 --> 01:35:18,330
podcaster. And to the audience
that there's more to it than

1654
01:35:18,330 --> 01:35:22,200
that. But I just anything that
you guys can be thinking about,

1655
01:35:22,860 --> 01:35:26,430
for that kind of engagement,
whether it's coming up with

1656
01:35:26,430 --> 01:35:29,850
this, because I believe if we
put out a if you guys put out a

1657
01:35:29,850 --> 01:35:35,430
really good standard that made
it possible for podcast

1658
01:35:35,430 --> 01:35:41,730
applications to record not in a
creepy way would have to be opt

1659
01:35:41,730 --> 01:35:45,210
in but record what Liz listeners
are actually doing. Are they

1660
01:35:45,210 --> 01:35:47,100
pausing? Are they playing? Are
they finishing the whole

1661
01:35:47,100 --> 01:35:49,680
episode? Are they skipping
something, if there was a

1662
01:35:49,680 --> 01:35:53,520
centralized reporting service
that was open, that apps could

1663
01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:57,510
tie into to do that if their
users opted in, and that it

1664
01:35:57,510 --> 01:36:00,660
could then though, that could be
reported back to the host that

1665
01:36:00,660 --> 01:36:03,630
would make all of my customers
so happy. So that's I don't know

1666
01:36:03,630 --> 01:36:06,660
how that would work or what that
would look like. But it would

1667
01:36:06,660 --> 01:36:12,150
need to be a trusted third party
to do it. It couldn't be that

1668
01:36:12,150 --> 01:36:15,510
overcast is collecting it, and
then doing something with it, it

1669
01:36:15,510 --> 01:36:19,260
would have to be reported clean
reporting it to to a third party

1670
01:36:19,260 --> 01:36:21,840
and you guys should be the third
party. So no big but just

1671
01:36:22,710 --> 01:36:25,740
I don't know, if we want to be
the third party, I

1672
01:36:25,740 --> 01:36:27,540
don't think you do. But I want
you to be.

1673
01:36:28,289 --> 01:36:31,289
Thank you. I appreciate that.
And by the way, for those of you

1674
01:36:31,289 --> 01:36:36,419
listening right now, I want you
to make sure you listen to this

1675
01:36:36,449 --> 01:36:41,489
podcast and either pod friend go
to web dot pod friend comm or

1676
01:36:41,489 --> 01:36:45,119
get a hyper catcher, because at
this very moment, if you look at

1677
01:36:45,119 --> 01:36:48,599
your your your app screen, you
will see a picture of Dan

1678
01:36:48,659 --> 01:36:54,779
Benjamin, right there. Look how
he looks on 3654. Okay, I'm

1679
01:36:54,779 --> 01:36:59,459
putting that in? Well, the
frayed picture will prove Oh,

1680
01:36:59,489 --> 01:37:06,299
it'll be the goat obviously.
Yeah, yeah. Well, the short The

1681
01:37:06,299 --> 01:37:09,659
short answer to your to your
listening statistics we've

1682
01:37:09,659 --> 01:37:12,599
discussed, you know that there
is a way to do that. And it's

1683
01:37:12,599 --> 01:37:18,389
completely trustless yet
verified and an accurate. That

1684
01:37:18,899 --> 01:37:23,669
is no third party. Okay.
Everyone has their own data?

1685
01:37:24,420 --> 01:37:26,130
Well, yeah, that would work.

1686
01:37:27,960 --> 01:37:33,540
And is the Yeah, I was thinking.
Do you guys, this may be off

1687
01:37:33,540 --> 01:37:37,260
top. But does farside the
support web sub?

1688
01:37:38,220 --> 01:37:39,360
Oh, that's a good question.

1689
01:37:39,810 --> 01:37:42,990
Um, you know, we've had, it
would be very, very easy for me

1690
01:37:42,990 --> 01:37:48,150
to roll that out. I've had a few
requests for it. And actually, I

1691
01:37:48,150 --> 01:37:52,380
have a branch that has that
working in it. Should we Is it

1692
01:37:52,380 --> 01:37:53,190
important? It's

1693
01:37:53,190 --> 01:37:56,040
something we should have? I
think so. We're,

1694
01:37:56,579 --> 01:37:58,079
when is this episode coming out?

1695
01:37:59,250 --> 01:38:03,630
Today Today in like, 30 minutes?
Yeah. Oh, well, it

1696
01:38:03,630 --> 01:38:06,450
won't be it won't be done by the
time that the episode comes out.

1697
01:38:06,450 --> 01:38:09,660
But give me what you're getting
in? Well, I gotta go eat some

1698
01:38:09,660 --> 01:38:10,200
lunch.

1699
01:38:12,330 --> 01:38:16,080
Yeah, web service is helps us a
lot.

1700
01:38:16,440 --> 01:38:19,080
Does it all implement that? I'll
have it beginning of next week

1701
01:38:19,080 --> 01:38:19,380
for you.

1702
01:38:20,820 --> 01:38:22,830
I love about Dan. Nice.

1703
01:38:23,280 --> 01:38:23,910
Next week. No

1704
01:38:23,910 --> 01:38:24,330
problem.

1705
01:38:25,110 --> 01:38:28,800
Yeah, that's great. Like, cuz
I'm gonna do it.

1706
01:38:28,830 --> 01:38:31,500
What do you want me to say it
should submit to that Google the

1707
01:38:31,500 --> 01:38:32,370
Google one, right?

1708
01:38:32,820 --> 01:38:36,480
Sure. Yeah, you can start there.
They're they're not super. I've

1709
01:38:36,480 --> 01:38:40,980
got will tell me what I use. No,
no, no, it's, that one's fine.

1710
01:38:41,010 --> 01:38:45,060
That one's fine. I think it's,
it may be the only one that's

1711
01:38:45,060 --> 01:38:49,350
free. But what I was thinking of
is the one you know, I wonder if

1712
01:38:49,770 --> 01:38:51,570
you could do it just in house.

1713
01:38:53,100 --> 01:38:56,220
Is that just run my own? run my
own one? Yeah, sure. I

1714
01:38:56,220 --> 01:38:58,800
don't care. Yeah, I don't I
don't know that. I don't know

1715
01:38:58,800 --> 01:38:59,610
what's out there.

1716
01:38:59,670 --> 01:39:01,830
But is that what you want me to
do? Because I'll do that for

1717
01:39:01,830 --> 01:39:02,010
you.

1718
01:39:02,430 --> 01:39:07,350
Because here's the problem. I
think, based on what I have seen

1719
01:39:07,680 --> 01:39:12,390
that the app, was it pub sub,
pub sub hub dot app, spot.com,

1720
01:39:12,390 --> 01:39:18,240
which is the worst domain name
in the history. So I think that,

1721
01:39:18,480 --> 01:39:21,870
that Google, that's Google's
public one I think, I don't know

1722
01:39:21,870 --> 01:39:24,180
if it's overloaded or what that

1723
01:39:24,510 --> 01:39:27,060
is missing stuff. It's missing
stuff. Yeah,

1724
01:39:27,119 --> 01:39:31,229
it is missing things. And it's
it's not it's not reliable. I

1725
01:39:31,229 --> 01:39:36,119
think it's about it's about 75%
which is enough to kind of be a

1726
01:39:36,119 --> 01:39:41,489
problem. And we thought about
the we thought about being an

1727
01:39:41,489 --> 01:39:45,749
open as well. Now I don't know
if we can you know, like the

1728
01:39:45,749 --> 01:39:48,779
volume obviously becomes a
problem. When you're talking

1729
01:39:48,779 --> 01:39:52,049
about trying to be in anytime
you do something free. Oh,

1730
01:39:52,049 --> 01:39:55,019
you're gonna get you're gonna
get hammered. But I was thinking

1731
01:39:55,019 --> 01:40:01,019
you know if if the hosts ran
their own Yo yo can handle that

1732
01:40:01,019 --> 01:40:05,069
traffic because the traffic for
each for each one is not super

1733
01:40:05,069 --> 01:40:10,949
high. Mm hmm. And it may make
things much more reliable. I

1734
01:40:10,949 --> 01:40:13,469
don't know. I'm just throwing
that out there. Stone. I

1735
01:40:13,470 --> 01:40:15,570
like that idea. I think there's
something there.

1736
01:40:16,110 --> 01:40:17,910
I will look into that. For sure.

1737
01:40:17,910 --> 01:40:18,180
Okay.

1738
01:40:18,900 --> 01:40:23,670
All right, Dan Benjamin, running
fireside in Austin, Texas. five

1739
01:40:23,670 --> 01:40:26,820
by five. What else? Anything
else we need to promote for you?

1740
01:40:27,270 --> 01:40:27,810
Man, you've

1741
01:40:27,810 --> 01:40:30,270
promoted so much for me already.
I couldn't ask for anything

1742
01:40:30,270 --> 01:40:33,300
else. fireside.fm is the thing
we've been talking about this

1743
01:40:33,300 --> 01:40:37,380
whole time and shows it five by
five. tv and Gosh, that's it,

1744
01:40:37,380 --> 01:40:39,720
guys. Thank you. Thanks so much
for having me. I'm thrilled to

1745
01:40:39,720 --> 01:40:40,320
be here.

1746
01:40:40,650 --> 01:40:43,170
The new area 57 podcast with Dan
Benjamin.

1747
01:40:43,950 --> 01:40:44,640
Yeah.

1748
01:40:47,520 --> 01:40:51,000
Alright guys, thank you both
very much. It was a great way to

1749
01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:55,260
kick off the weekend. Perfect
Friday, and we'll see you all

1750
01:40:55,260 --> 01:40:57,210
over there at the index. Thanks,
Dan.

1751
01:40:57,540 --> 01:40:58,110
Thank you.

1752
01:40:58,380 --> 01:40:59,490
Alright, everybody. That's it.

1753
01:41:01,140 --> 01:41:02,040
Break it down.

1754
01:41:02,850 --> 01:41:05,340
We'll be back next week to bring
you another Friday board meeting

1755
01:41:05,340 --> 01:41:13,980
of podcasting. 2.0

1756
01:41:23,790 --> 01:41:25,380
listening to podcasts.

1757
01:41:26,730 --> 01:41:30,510
Visit podcasts. For more
information.

