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Moe Factz with Adam curry August
26 2019 Episode Five. Oh Moe

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you've done it again to me. You
brought the brought the music

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once again

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as Grandmaster Flash, a message.

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I think I can still do it. Let
me see if I can do it hold on a

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sec when we see broken glass
everywhere people pissing on the

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stairs no that just don't care.
I can't take the smell can't

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take the noise gotten the money
move out. Guess it got no choice

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wrapped in the front room
roaches in the back. jockeys in

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the alley with a baseball bat
tried to get away but it

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couldn't get bought because a
man with a tow truck to test my

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car. Okay, there we go. This
came out. This came out when I

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was a kid. I used to know all of
it

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is the message. Yeah, it is the
message. That's I think that's

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appropriate for what we're about
to talk to talk about today. As

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if people haven't noticed all
the all the music is appropriate

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to the shows. I'm sure we have
some very smart listeners. So

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they might have figured it out.
Yeah, right. Right. Just for

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just for the people that you
know, maybe just tuning in that

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bill will pick that up. One
thing I'd like to clear up from

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the last show is I said, auto
Sterling was the guy that was

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choked out. I knew we got that
one wrong. Yes. Ah Is Eric

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Garner Gardner, right. All
right. So I want to apologize

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for that. Just a little fat
check. Clean up fat check call.

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So many people hit me in the DMS
and I'm like Eric Garner, Eric.

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Well, hopefully that's not the
only thing they took away from

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Episode Four. But yeah,

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I just wanted to clear that up
right up front. So how's

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everything else going? Now?

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Everything's good in opportunity
zone? 33 on the frontier of

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Austin, Texas. How about you?

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Everything's gone. Great. got an
email from last show. Concerning

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last show, the clip we played. I
forget the gentleman's name.

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Terrible. It was the immigration
hurting are hurting black people

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clip?

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Ah, yes. Okay. I don't remember
either who that was. But I know

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exactly what you're talking
about.

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So the gentleman from net clear,
and I'm going to find his name

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because it's important, but he
will possibly want to do an

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interview. Oh, wonder listeners
made the connection. Nice. I

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don't want to say the wave and
head Ted Hayes. Yes, Ted Hayes,

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right? Is the gentleman from the
clip, I don't want to say that

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person's name for email credit
and get the Okay. But you know

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who you are. And I much
appreciate that. Because that's

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what we want from, from this
channel is to, you know, bring

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good information in so it can be
dispersed.

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And we'll be talking about this
at the end of the show. But the

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idea of how these types of
podcasts work, he falls under

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the value for value system. And
we'll talk a bit about at the

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end, as I said, but in effects.
Everyone is a listener, but more

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importantly, everybody becomes a
producer. And there's many ways

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you can help. And that's a great
example when someone has a

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knowledge information to contact
any other skills that you think

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would contribute to the show.
You're a producer and you'll be

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credited as such as well. So
that's exactly what producers do

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is find connections and reach
out and try and make the program

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better.

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And we love those subject matter
experts like the other gentleman

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Macao wrote in about the
opportunity's own so I'm loving

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getting all this information
because it gives you a better

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well rounded view on the topics
that we discussed.

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Yes. And I'm sure we'll come
around to many of the topics

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that we've already covered.

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Yes. So with that said where we
left off in the last couple of

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shows were the think tanks. We
looked at the left leaning think

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tanks we looked at last show we
looked at the right leaning

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Think Tank, Prager University or
Praeger you and I found this

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interesting clip isn't it's from
a movie, but a candidate

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described describes or details.
I think how a conversation may

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go between these two schools of
thought that's trying to

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persuade black people to think
one way or another. And that's

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trick baby.

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As you liberals who have lifted
them up power, Paul, you

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conservatives make the mistake.
You can't afford to strangle

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hope and people without hope.
People become dangerous. No are

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you liberals have left them in
vade our society, you give them

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jobs, political job, Oh, you
missed the point. Only the smart

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ones we move up. That makes it
even worse. Oh, we have to move

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them up. If we leave a smart one
in the ghetto, you might develop

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into a leader against us. But if
we raise him up into white

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society, we neutralize. It feels
compelled to try wag like us. He

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loses his identity and his
racial anger. If he has the he

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becomes alien to his brothers.
They realize he sold them out

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and they grow to hate him. He
becomes worthless to them, and

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safe for us. No, thank you. In
fact, in his love for the

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creature comforts, except for
his color. He's become one of

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us.

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Wow, who was in this movie?

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And that's the movie of trick
baby from 1974. It was one of

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the Blaxploitation films. And
the reason why I brought that is

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I thought that was a great
illustration for the two

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extremes, the left and the
right, right, they're vying for

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the mind of the of the black
man. I would imagine how this

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conversation goes. Now this is
not saying the run of the mill,

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average, General, left or right
person, these are extremes. So I

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wanted to bring that to the
table to kind of illustrate what

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I think how that conversation
might go to the listeners, you

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have two schools of thought of
how to control our persuade the

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black community, the quote,
unquote, black community. So

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what did you take away from that
clip? Adam?

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Well, what it sounded like to me
is, well, first of all,

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outrageous just to hear that
conversation. But both sides

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wanted to make the subjects it
was mind control. I mean, either

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way was mind control based on
human emotions. But the general

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concept being if you can show
something good and comfortable

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and nice over here, that's the
direction people will go. And

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there's all these ways you can
exploit them on their journey.

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Right. So that's the kind of
thing that I wanted to

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illustrate, I think we, I think
that was a nice little bow. To

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put on the previous conversation
we were having of the two

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extremes of the think tanks, or
the think tanks, then a nice

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little one minute clip. And
that, of

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course, is not abnormal for the
think tanks. In this case, it's

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about getting black people,
nudging them where they want

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them to go. This happens, of
course, for all groups and races

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and religions, etc.

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And I'm glad you brought up that
word nudging because we're right

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back where we left off. So we
brought this term up nudging in

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a previous show, but we really
didn't lay out what it was, I

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mean, in detail and how it
works. And I saw one of the

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greatest nudges of all time.
With the Popeyes versus Chick

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fil A conversation who has the
best sandwich. The reason why I

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say that is one for people of my
community, a certain

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conversation that we don't have
in mixed company. So for this to

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take place on social media so
openly, it made me wonder what

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is happening here. And just to
give us testament of how taboo

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is to have this conversation in
public. For one, I feel

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uncomfortable right now having
this conversation.

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Really okay. And I'm not even
sure what the conversation is

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yet Mo.

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The conversation is who has the
better Froch? Waving this habit

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creeped over into your feed?

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No, though, I know about the
Fast Food Wars, where there's a

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lot going on on Twitter. And I
have followed that a bit but

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never in this context. And I
certainly didn't know that it is

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a social taboo amongst black
Americans to discuss who has the

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better chicken sandwich.

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No, just no. Discuss fried
chicken in general. It's certain

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things that are stereotypical
and of course, this is for every

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community, of course, that you
don't discuss that stereotypical

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topic. in mixed company. It's
not about who has the best or

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not, that's not

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just about the whole fried
chicken thing and that's fine.

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It's a trigger I get it of
course,

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and the to illustrate that fried
chicken in public. You know,

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when black people eat chicken
for a long time, we didn't eat

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it because of the racial
stereotypes about us eating

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chicken Yeah. Do you think that
because of what you do, and you

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know, even when I do with the
comedy and stuff that we have

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made it look different and made
it acceptable?

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Yeah, I do. I mean, like I said,
it's your approach to it, you

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know, like you approach it from
an authentic organic, genuine,

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you know, I know you do that
with your comedy, you're putting

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good energy out. Just you just
kind of, you know, showing

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something that's pretty obvious,
but you know, it is what it is.

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Don't tell me you're actually
going to take us back to the

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roots of this.

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No, I'm not gonna go there.
Okay, I'm not gonna go because

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that's that will be that's a
general conversation. Expected.

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Got it. It's amazing that you
haven't heard this topic. I am

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simply amazed because social
media.

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Well, now, hold on, hold on. Let
me just step back for a second

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because I'm maybe I was a little
confused. I've seen competing

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ads for chicken sandwiches from
the fast food. And if I saw that

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on television, or read an
article about it, but it's on

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the radar, but way off because
it just, I haven't been thinking

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about it for me.

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That's not what I'm talking
about here. Oh, social media was

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a

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blade. Oh, boy, a

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blaze, like the conversation of
who has the best chicken

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sandwich? Popeyes versus Chick
fil A. And the reason why I

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bring this up is this is the
perfect example of several

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things that's discussed on this
show. And even on the knowledge

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in the show, one the native add
to nudging. And three, how these

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social media conversations
happen in silos. I just want to

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say I'm amazed that you didn't
see this trending on your

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timeline. And we both agree that
you have a gray.

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Yes, I do have a yes, I do have
a great timeline. That's right.

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That is amazing. I am
flabbergasted that you haven't

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heard it.

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But my I don't know if I'm
supposed to feel bad or not. But

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it's my filters around for other
stuff. So I've just been looking

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at other things. And by the way,
I don't like chicken sandwiches.

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I don't think you understand how
big this was. Made local news.

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Oh my goodness. I need to hand
in my credentials.

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Popeyes versus Chick fil A.

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The chicken sandwich war wages
on tonight and the upland team

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is putting the Popeyes chicken
sandwich to the test. We'll get

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to that in just a moment. But if
you've missed out on what

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everyone's talking about, let's
kind of catch you up. This is

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the new Popeyes chicken sandwich
that's got so many folks talking

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it started the debate the chain
put it out last week nationwide

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and many people were comparing
it to the Atlanta born Chick fil

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A chicken sandwich that was all
well and good until chick fillet

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responded with this tweet saying
all love for the original

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Popeyes of course response and
are y'all good. And then we see

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when these jump into the fray
saying these two fools are

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competing for second best
sandwich. Of course, Popeye's,

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responding again saying you must
have ate one of our biscuits

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because you're looking thirsty
and windy thing that means your

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food is as dry as your jokes.
This is going on with so many

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other companies getting in on
it. A 2013 study from Cornell

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University found 59% of chain
restaurants and 79% of

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independent restaurants use
social media and that study was

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from six years ago. So we're
seeing much more we're also

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seeing the chains getting sassy
online. So this likely won't be

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the last time we see some sort
of war on social media. Yeah,

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okay. Yes, I read about this,
but I read it in an advertising

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industry magazine. And so and it
was more a little broader

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context about the advertisers
using social media and the

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pitfalls and the upside etc. So
I have more background

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information than of the actual
incredible extravaganza of

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outrage over which sandwich is
the best.

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And this is my point for this
conversation to happen in the

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black community on social media.
Shows you the power of the

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native ad and of social media. I
can't say another word mind

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control.

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And is is anonymity a part of
this

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now that we have people putting
their face

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I can tell knowing you that you
are really blown away by this

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happening and that's fascinating
because of course I missed this

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How the hell would I would I
know that this is not something

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00:14:49,259 --> 00:14:53,159
you talk about in mixed company
yet on social media is blowing

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up.

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I am irked. I am amazed ah Oh, I
like, like, for lack of better.

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00:15:02,850 --> 00:15:12,180
I'm flabbergasted that the topic
of the conversation being had it

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grew to a certain level, as
we've discussed before, it's

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just a little low, low
background. It starts, it starts

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trending on social media. Then
the local news picks it up. Yep.

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So for the fact for this local,
this is a local news station. I

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believe in Atlanta. I want to
say,

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well, maybe that's why it's news
even though they didn't really

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say that.

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00:15:37,710 --> 00:15:41,370
Right. The other thing is, and
it clipped this part of the

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clip, they have a taste test.
With three black people

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00:15:47,399 --> 00:15:53,969
taking it to the extreme. Wait a
minute, there's only three black

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00:15:53,969 --> 00:15:57,449
people to test the chicken
sandwiches.

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00:15:57,870 --> 00:16:01,650
Yeah. And they had a guy was a
white guy. He went on

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00:16:01,650 --> 00:16:04,560
camera, and they called Donald
Trump racist. This is great.

241
00:16:06,419 --> 00:16:13,349
But did you hear the language of
the clip? I'm taken aback. I'll

242
00:16:13,349 --> 00:16:16,199
always use them amazed. I had
people who were saying friends

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00:16:16,229 --> 00:16:20,489
DM him like, do you see this? Do
you see this conversation going

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00:16:20,489 --> 00:16:23,459
on? I mean, more of the what you
want to call you know, the, the,

245
00:16:23,489 --> 00:16:25,889
you know, the woke crowd, that

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00:16:25,890 --> 00:16:28,500
word? Know that we know exactly
what you mean. That's good.

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00:16:28,950 --> 00:16:32,310
Do you see the conversation is
gone on all social media right

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00:16:32,310 --> 00:16:37,170
now. And I was so pissed. For
the simple fact. There's certain

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00:16:37,170 --> 00:16:40,680
things and I'm sure this was
every culture that you don't

250
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,530
have this conversation in mixed
company.

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00:16:43,559 --> 00:16:47,879
Do you mind? Explore that for a
second? Go ahead. You were

252
00:16:47,879 --> 00:16:52,589
pissed? What was your actual
feeling? What I mean, you were

253
00:16:52,589 --> 00:16:57,839
pissed? Because it was happening
because it felt like a taboo was

254
00:16:57,839 --> 00:17:00,719
broken. And why here? Why now?
What were you feeling? What was

255
00:17:00,719 --> 00:17:02,099
your personal feeling about it?

256
00:17:03,390 --> 00:17:08,670
My personal feeling is this.
There are certain cultural code

257
00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:11,520
and let's be clear, I don't even
feel comfortable having this

258
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:12,960
conversation here now.

259
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:19,110
Yeah, okay, that that explains
so much right there. I gotcha.

260
00:17:19,110 --> 00:17:21,150
Because you're comfortable with
pretty much everything.

261
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:26,340
Right? But there because what it
does, it feeds the stereotype.

262
00:17:27,450 --> 00:17:31,500
And the clip we played before is
people were black people

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00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:36,480
wouldn't even cannibal eating
chicken in public. Right. Um,

264
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,780
that was my EPS from the show.
That's his television show.

265
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That's racist. So for this
conversation too slow on social

266
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media. And then when you go back
and listen to the these are the

267
00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:54,240
public accounts for Popeyes
Chick fil A, and Wendy's timeout

268
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:59,610
you mad? You see these fools.
It's like, who was typing this

269
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for these companies?

270
00:18:02,550 --> 00:18:05,790
That's what I always think,
like, Wow, man, whose job is

271
00:18:05,790 --> 00:18:09,120
that to talk like this? And do
they have some kind of approval

272
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:11,460
chain of command? I always
wonder about that.

273
00:18:12,300 --> 00:18:16,380
Right. So not to belabor the
point. But the reason why I'm

274
00:18:16,380 --> 00:18:20,520
bringing this up is if you can
have people have a taboo

275
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,430
conversation, or what is
perceived as a taboo

276
00:18:23,430 --> 00:18:31,020
conversation, that shows you the
level of expertise they have in

277
00:18:31,020 --> 00:18:34,740
this in this advertising and
manipulation through social

278
00:18:34,740 --> 00:18:39,240
media. But to go forward, we
have to go back and we have to

279
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,820
look at someone like air Edward
Bernays,

280
00:18:42,090 --> 00:18:45,240
the father of propaganda. Yes,

281
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:52,650
he the father of propaganda, Tom
Kellner, let's see a little

282
00:18:52,650 --> 00:19:02,790
background on him. Mr. Tom
Kellner is the author of public

283
00:19:02,820 --> 00:19:08,310
relations and digital and
digital age. He's at from the

284
00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:13,320
University of Florida College of
journalism and communications.

285
00:19:13,650 --> 00:19:17,700
He's in his clip he speaks on
Edward Bernays.

286
00:19:17,910 --> 00:19:21,060
It's funny because a lot of the
cases in public relations that

287
00:19:21,060 --> 00:19:24,750
really illustrate some of the
key principles are ones that the

288
00:19:24,750 --> 00:19:29,490
field gets criticized for Edward
Bernays is a great example. I've

289
00:19:29,490 --> 00:19:32,940
got the classic case in there on
the torches of freedom, where he

290
00:19:32,940 --> 00:19:38,220
basically used techniques of
Social Psychology of Persuasion

291
00:19:38,220 --> 00:19:43,380
and develop new techniques to
persuade women to smoke and on

292
00:19:43,380 --> 00:19:46,710
face value, you know, obviously,
that's wrong, you know, why

293
00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:51,060
would we want anyone to smoke,
let alone women in the 1920s.

294
00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:55,410
However, if you go down a layer,
it's really interesting because

295
00:19:55,410 --> 00:19:58,320
it opens up for First of all,
what are the what are the

296
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,990
practices that are at work?
there. And even if you think

297
00:20:00,990 --> 00:20:04,560
about the most evil propaganda
in the world, we need to be able

298
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:08,070
to understand those processes so
that we can identify them.

299
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:11,010
That's an important societal
function that's important and

300
00:20:11,010 --> 00:20:12,090
critical thinking.

301
00:20:13,020 --> 00:20:16,740
Yeah, this is good. This is the
foundation of advertising. And

302
00:20:16,740 --> 00:20:19,380
it's very important for people
don't understand these, this

303
00:20:19,380 --> 00:20:19,920
history.

304
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,280
And the reason why I use this
clip is he brought up the

305
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,590
torches of freedom. Have you
heard of that atom?

306
00:20:25,620 --> 00:20:28,230
I've heard? I've heard it. Yes.
I could not tell you what it

307
00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:28,650
means.

308
00:20:28,890 --> 00:20:33,060
Okay, so background on the
torches of freedom. And you're

309
00:20:33,060 --> 00:20:40,590
going to see some parallels
here. In the 1920s. It was taboo

310
00:20:40,650 --> 00:20:44,910
for women to smoke. Especially
in public.

311
00:20:44,940 --> 00:20:49,080
Oh, yes. I remember. Is this the
parade? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

312
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:49,500
All right.

313
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:57,000
Now, we see we're talking taboos
here. Edward Bernays to women

314
00:20:57,390 --> 00:21:01,080
gave them cigarettes,
specifically lucky strikes.

315
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,560
That's what we work for. And
gave them to a group of

316
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:09,960
feminists and a parade and show
them marching down the street,

317
00:21:10,410 --> 00:21:13,110
smoking the cigarettes and the
parade. Was this

318
00:21:13,140 --> 00:21:16,290
what the suffered the
suffragette movement was co

319
00:21:16,290 --> 00:21:17,400
opted for this, I think,

320
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,110
Ah, I think wasn't that more
power vision or no,

321
00:21:22,140 --> 00:21:24,000
no, no. Well, it was the right
for women to vote.

322
00:21:25,710 --> 00:21:28,110
Now saying what and I thought
they were more involved in the

323
00:21:28,110 --> 00:21:32,640
prohibition but I'm maybe maybe
I'm may be off.

324
00:21:32,850 --> 00:21:35,130
All right, keep going. I'll I'll
do a quick lookup, just.

325
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:41,070
So the point is to show you is
with public relations, as they

326
00:21:41,070 --> 00:21:45,720
call it. A better term for that
is propaganda. And they use the

327
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,660
term propaganda, they stop using
the term propaganda because of

328
00:21:48,660 --> 00:21:55,170
the loaded weight that that word
had and switched over to public

329
00:21:55,170 --> 00:21:58,050
relations. So one thing I want
people to take away from is

330
00:21:58,050 --> 00:22:02,160
anytime you see that word public
relations, substitute that for

331
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:07,200
propagandists, right, because
that's the proper term for it.

332
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,040
But Edward Bernays, he's a
genius. Think he was Sigmund

333
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:18,270
Freud's nephew. Correct. So he
understood psychology very well.

334
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:24,750
And he wrote many books, and he
was the industry like kureta a

335
00:22:24,750 --> 00:22:28,260
public relations out I would
say, I would say without being a

336
00:22:28,260 --> 00:22:32,520
stretch, he's also also the
person that said bacon and eggs.

337
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,000
Were a great American breakfast,
healthy breakfast, because he

338
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:41,370
got doctors to convenient out.
So this had happened. Pork

339
00:22:41,370 --> 00:22:47,700
farmers had a high quantity of
low quality meat called Bacon

340
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:55,050
that they needed to sell. So he
convinced doctors to come out

341
00:22:55,050 --> 00:22:59,310
and say, a great hearty American
breakfast is bacon and eggs. And

342
00:22:59,310 --> 00:23:02,910
that allowed him to sell this
meat that was really unwanted.

343
00:23:04,350 --> 00:23:05,400
And now let's the

344
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:10,020
American way MO That is the
American way. I'm just

345
00:23:10,110 --> 00:23:13,170
That's great. Wrong. Yeah,
right, wrong. And this leads us

346
00:23:13,170 --> 00:23:17,820
into the second clip of what is
okay and what is not. Okay.

347
00:23:18,209 --> 00:23:21,599
But the other important part is
let's let's hash out the ethical

348
00:23:21,599 --> 00:23:25,349
part is does that mean that you
know, organizations should never

349
00:23:25,349 --> 00:23:29,159
try to persuade somebody to buy
a product? And again, I think

350
00:23:29,159 --> 00:23:33,089
it's, we can say yes, it's bad
to promote cigarettes. But I

351
00:23:33,089 --> 00:23:36,059
think we need to say, Well, wait
a minute, why, you know, what

352
00:23:36,059 --> 00:23:39,239
was Bearnaise actually doing
wrong? If that had been a

353
00:23:39,239 --> 00:23:42,689
socially responsible product or
something that really helps

354
00:23:42,689 --> 00:23:46,649
society? And he didn't do a lot
of that too. You know, how can

355
00:23:46,649 --> 00:23:50,189
we separate out you know, what
makes one case unethical? From

356
00:23:50,189 --> 00:23:53,189
what another case? What makes
another case ethical?

357
00:23:54,540 --> 00:23:58,920
Yeah, that's a good question.
So, this is we're gonna start

358
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:04,890
seeing seeing a theme here
moving forward of ethics. Is it

359
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:13,380
ethical for people to be nudged?
So we have Mr. Richard Taylor.

360
00:24:14,100 --> 00:24:17,670
And Mr. Richard Thaler is from
the University of Chicago,

361
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,240
Graduate School of Business. Now
he's a professor there. And he

362
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,930
wrote a book nudge improving
decisions about health, wealth

363
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,760
and happiness. And in the next
clip, we won't have Mr. Taylor,

364
00:24:30,150 --> 00:24:32,520
do an overview of what a nudge
is.

365
00:24:33,630 --> 00:24:37,830
Nudge is any small feature in
the environment that attracts

366
00:24:37,830 --> 00:24:42,390
our attention, and influences
the behavior that we make. The

367
00:24:42,390 --> 00:24:48,360
nudging is done by what we call
a choice architect, which is a

368
00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:53,100
fancy term for anyone who
influences the choices that you

369
00:24:53,100 --> 00:24:58,650
make. Take the example of the
cafeteria downstairs. Somebody

370
00:24:58,650 --> 00:25:02,190
had to decide when Where to put
the salad bar where to put the

371
00:25:02,190 --> 00:25:05,940
burgers, where to put the ice
cream, where to put the coffee.

372
00:25:06,690 --> 00:25:09,120
That person is a choice
architect because the

373
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:13,050
arrangement of the food
influences the choices that we

374
00:25:13,050 --> 00:25:13,530
make.

375
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,320
Absolutely supermarkets,
everything.

376
00:25:17,070 --> 00:25:21,780
All right, we see this in caps,
the eye level products, compared

377
00:25:21,780 --> 00:25:25,800
to the ones on the bottom. So we
see this in stores in a physical

378
00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:30,120
environment. But then we have to
ask ourselves, what about in the

379
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:35,610
cyber environment? Correct?
Choice architects for what we

380
00:25:35,610 --> 00:25:41,160
see, oh, the banners, Western
our feeds, what they determined

381
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,940
to be most important on the
rankings. We see this all the

382
00:25:44,940 --> 00:25:49,230
time. So I'm laying out a thing
here of now we see how

383
00:25:49,230 --> 00:25:52,980
propaganda works, they can take
things that are taboo, and make

384
00:25:52,980 --> 00:25:57,120
them more than acceptable, even
though they may not be healthy

385
00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:02,250
or ethical. And we got to ask
ourselves, who are these choice

386
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:08,700
architects? And what and how do
we hold them responsible for

387
00:26:08,700 --> 00:26:12,660
their actions? So let's listen
to the clip number two, some

388
00:26:12,660 --> 00:26:13,830
people worry

389
00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:19,350
that the idea of choice
architects and nudging is

390
00:26:19,350 --> 00:26:23,130
somehow leading to Big Brother.
And that's not the way we think

391
00:26:23,130 --> 00:26:27,240
about it. One of the points we
stress in the book is that there

392
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,960
has to be some choice
architecture. So the person who

393
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,800
designs that cafeteria
downstairs has to put the food

394
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,130
somewhere, the salad has to be
in front of the burgers or

395
00:26:38,130 --> 00:26:41,910
behind the burgers, given that
you have to arrange the food in

396
00:26:41,910 --> 00:26:46,290
some order, we argue, why not
have the choice architect,

397
00:26:46,650 --> 00:26:51,270
arrange the food in such a way
that people will be happier and

398
00:26:51,270 --> 00:26:53,070
healthier? And maybe live a
little?

399
00:26:55,230 --> 00:26:58,590
Yes, well, the only way to do
that is to test and see what

400
00:26:58,590 --> 00:27:01,080
works better, and then implement
the results.

401
00:27:01,890 --> 00:27:06,540
So this is my thesis on going
back on the Popeyes versus Chick

402
00:27:06,540 --> 00:27:17,130
fil A debate. I think these
social media companies

403
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,870
understand as don't work
anymore. Would you agree? Would

404
00:27:21,870 --> 00:27:22,740
you agree that

405
00:27:22,770 --> 00:27:27,240
not only would I agree, I think
Jack Dorsey is a very smart guy.

406
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:28,800
And he's probably figured this
out.

407
00:27:30,180 --> 00:27:35,340
Correct. So with that
understanding, can you explain

408
00:27:35,340 --> 00:27:38,760
to us and you're saying for the
listeners, how do social media

409
00:27:38,790 --> 00:27:42,090
companies make their money?
Because you don't pay to be on

410
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:44,910
the to be on there? So how
exactly do they make their

411
00:27:44,910 --> 00:27:45,570
money? Well, they

412
00:27:45,570 --> 00:27:49,920
have a lot of different revenue
streams. Initially, just display

413
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:55,080
advertising was thought to work
well. And too, so just when you

414
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,720
see an ad for something,
Instagram is probably even a

415
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,480
better example where you see it
pop up. That's very clear.

416
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:05,520
Twitter is much less clear is
how it works. But the big part

417
00:28:05,550 --> 00:28:09,810
of the revenue is how can we
exploit these people based upon

418
00:28:09,810 --> 00:28:13,440
the data that they are leaving
behind with their behavioral

419
00:28:14,250 --> 00:28:15,000
footprint?

420
00:28:17,490 --> 00:28:25,200
So would you say, creating an
argument about a product versus

421
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,790
one product A versus product B
would kill two birds with one

422
00:28:29,790 --> 00:28:30,210
stone?

423
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,660
I think it kills a couple of
birds. First of all, if I'm

424
00:28:33,660 --> 00:28:37,410
Twitter, and I know what my
audience really likes better,

425
00:28:37,620 --> 00:28:39,900
I'm going to talk to those guys.
And I'll probably talk to the

426
00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:42,150
other guys and give him the same
information. Say you should be

427
00:28:42,150 --> 00:28:44,910
stepping up your game here
because look, it looks like

428
00:28:44,910 --> 00:28:46,530
these guys are beating the pants
off here.

429
00:28:48,420 --> 00:28:53,970
And what it seemed like to me
was Popeyes was trolling Chick

430
00:28:53,970 --> 00:28:58,320
fil A, I mean, Chick fil A is
number one and fast food period.

431
00:28:58,350 --> 00:29:02,910
This is exactly that article
that I was reading was and they

432
00:29:02,910 --> 00:29:06,300
didn't even answer conclusively.
Is this the strategy was the

433
00:29:06,300 --> 00:29:10,410
question is the strategy of one
over the other to call one out

434
00:29:10,410 --> 00:29:13,950
to bring more attention to them.
It's all up I'll see if I can

435
00:29:13,950 --> 00:29:16,320
put it in some show notes that
fascinating article. So yeah,

436
00:29:16,500 --> 00:29:18,360
absolutely. This was strategy.

437
00:29:18,989 --> 00:29:21,959
So let me give you a little
background from how I've seen

438
00:29:21,959 --> 00:29:25,949
this work in the music industry,
which is the thing and rap

439
00:29:25,949 --> 00:29:32,309
called beef. And what B does is
you have one the lesser MC or

440
00:29:32,399 --> 00:29:36,749
rapper called the other out,
calls out the bigger rapper.

441
00:29:36,779 --> 00:29:40,379
Yep. And they keep doing it. You
see it in boxing as well. But

442
00:29:40,379 --> 00:29:43,529
you're saying for this example
we see and let's just take a rap

443
00:29:43,529 --> 00:29:49,619
for instance, to be the lesser
of the two and garner you have

444
00:29:49,619 --> 00:29:54,569
to latch yourself on with the
with the the top rapper and you

445
00:29:54,569 --> 00:29:58,619
do that by what they call beef.
And the perfect example of this

446
00:29:58,649 --> 00:30:04,649
you know saying was So a guy
named 50 cents. Maybe you heard

447
00:30:04,649 --> 00:30:11,369
of him? Yeah. What he when he
was first coming up, there was a

448
00:30:11,369 --> 00:30:14,879
guy named John Rue, which a lot
of people may not have heard of.

449
00:30:15,329 --> 00:30:15,779
He was

450
00:30:15,780 --> 00:30:17,400
the top fire festival.

451
00:30:18,149 --> 00:30:23,549
Right That guy? Well, before
that he was he was one of the

452
00:30:23,549 --> 00:30:27,899
top representatives and the rat
industry chair. And what 50 cent

453
00:30:28,019 --> 00:30:34,889
did was create a song about Ja
Rule. That was so potent. It

454
00:30:34,889 --> 00:30:39,389
really it demanded a response.
Right, exactly. And what that

455
00:30:39,389 --> 00:30:44,639
did was put 50 cents, the lesser
rapper on the level of gyro, the

456
00:30:44,639 --> 00:30:47,699
number one selling, you're
saying hitmaking rapper at the

457
00:30:47,699 --> 00:30:48,059
time.

458
00:30:48,090 --> 00:30:51,660
It's a well known tactic in
marketplaces. Right?

459
00:30:51,690 --> 00:30:54,600
So just go to show you're
saying, oh, and in layman's

460
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:59,520
terms, how this works. So I
think what happens is with the

461
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:06,810
help of Twitter, Popeyes, the
lower of the two companies has a

462
00:31:06,810 --> 00:31:11,790
new product. Yep. And they came
at the benchmark product. And

463
00:31:11,790 --> 00:31:16,020
for people too, it's a reflex
thing. That's like saying, Ah,

464
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,440
you know, you know, fours are
better than Chevy, you're gonna

465
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:25,770
get a 50% response. pushing back
against that, which creates the

466
00:31:25,770 --> 00:31:30,390
momentum that you need. If I'm
Chevrolet, you know, saying I'll

467
00:31:30,390 --> 00:31:34,980
have have my company say the
new, the new Chevy truck kicks

468
00:31:35,310 --> 00:31:36,720
on 50s as right.

469
00:31:36,870 --> 00:31:41,370
Well, and this brings up an
interesting point. In certainly

470
00:31:41,370 --> 00:31:45,480
television adverse advertising,
we used to see a lot more of

471
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,650
product A versus product B. And
they're very tight rules. If you

472
00:31:49,650 --> 00:31:54,510
say anything that is not 100%
True, or which is subjective,

473
00:31:54,750 --> 00:31:58,020
but you're presenting as facts,
you can get in a lot of trouble

474
00:31:58,020 --> 00:32:02,220
as an advertiser, social media,
and I'm going to use the yet

475
00:32:02,220 --> 00:32:06,360
word in this case does not yet
have these restrictions. Because

476
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,260
we're talking about the end,
it's an added bonus, is that

477
00:32:10,350 --> 00:32:14,610
once you start the the beef so
to speak, you can kind of step

478
00:32:14,610 --> 00:32:19,170
back and your fans step in and
take over and they can be

479
00:32:19,170 --> 00:32:23,940
completely subjective, objective
ly, whatever, say, Well, yeah,

480
00:32:23,970 --> 00:32:27,240
you know, your chicken tastes
like poop. And like, you can't

481
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,390
say that on television. But when
you have enough people, and I

482
00:32:30,390 --> 00:32:32,760
think this is where you're
going, when the algos kick in,

483
00:32:33,090 --> 00:32:38,130
you can really make a
difference. And probably change

484
00:32:38,130 --> 00:32:42,000
people's minds or at least bring
something to their attention

485
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,770
they had not thought of
previously.

486
00:32:44,460 --> 00:32:48,030
So there's a conversation out
there saying, Well, why did they

487
00:32:48,030 --> 00:32:51,810
just get the influencers? To
promote the sandwich?

488
00:32:52,350 --> 00:32:54,570
I think expensive is too
expensive.

489
00:32:55,590 --> 00:32:59,640
Not only that, I think now, and
I'm having a conversation with

490
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:07,200
another good friend of mine, a
very smart guy named mg. I think

491
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:12,810
the kids my daughter's age,
she's 15 going on 16 They look

492
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,110
at influencers now. And the same
way my generation looked at

493
00:33:16,110 --> 00:33:18,750
commercials not to be trusted.

494
00:33:19,650 --> 00:33:22,620
Excellent point, we've, we've
crossed the Rubicon, we've

495
00:33:22,620 --> 00:33:24,450
jumped the shark with the
influencers.

496
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,800
Right? So once that happens,
that makes them invalid or

497
00:33:29,010 --> 00:33:32,700
ineffective. So now you can't
use an influencer, you can't

498
00:33:32,700 --> 00:33:37,740
give the top influencers, say
hey, promote my product X and

499
00:33:37,740 --> 00:33:40,740
make it boom, because the kids
are like my, you're getting a

500
00:33:40,770 --> 00:33:44,820
check for that flat tummy tea
or, or whatever it is. You're

501
00:33:44,820 --> 00:33:49,260
saying you're pedaling. Yeah. So
that's why it doesn't work. So

502
00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:56,070
as you laid out, the company
can't say, my thing is better

503
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:59,100
than their thing, because of
what you're saying, libel

504
00:33:59,100 --> 00:34:00,840
reasons and legal reasons,
correct?

505
00:34:00,870 --> 00:34:05,340
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Very
specific. It's probably FTC

506
00:34:05,340 --> 00:34:08,340
regulations. And there's a lot
of lot of stuff you just can't

507
00:34:08,340 --> 00:34:11,520
do. And and I don't think these
rules have adopted, although

508
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:16,260
there was one change made that
you have to disclose if you're

509
00:34:16,260 --> 00:34:20,400
being paid for something as an
influencer. But that disclosure

510
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,550
is, you know, almost like the,
the fine print that you see

511
00:34:23,550 --> 00:34:27,090
underneath the financing for
your, you know, the car TV ad,

512
00:34:27,330 --> 00:34:31,350
though, you know, it's minimal,
but you do have to disclose that

513
00:34:31,350 --> 00:34:35,730
now. But that's about that's all
all this really changed and may

514
00:34:35,730 --> 00:34:38,340
blow my mind because I hadn't
really considered this

515
00:34:38,340 --> 00:34:41,880
particular example. But that is
a very interesting business

516
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,140
model they're employing there.

517
00:34:44,279 --> 00:34:48,689
So this is how I think going
back to my theory, if I'm

518
00:34:48,689 --> 00:34:55,259
Popeyes. I have my people.
Scrolling through searching

519
00:34:55,289 --> 00:35:00,359
through for who had the bunnies
video about our product No, it's

520
00:35:00,359 --> 00:35:06,809
a useful idiot Of course. And
then I go on say Twitter push

521
00:35:06,809 --> 00:35:13,229
the button on this guy yank him
trend. Yep. It's authentic cuz

522
00:35:13,229 --> 00:35:16,769
this guy's a useful idiot he
doesn't know he's saying he's in

523
00:35:16,799 --> 00:35:17,999
on the on the work

524
00:35:18,450 --> 00:35:23,190
even better. Narcissism kicks in
and you're flying high when you

525
00:35:23,190 --> 00:35:26,370
start to get a lot of traction
on social media as just a guy

526
00:35:26,370 --> 00:35:27,120
with a video.

527
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,350
And as we've seen with social
media culture, and once one

528
00:35:31,350 --> 00:35:37,320
person gets goes viral, it's
like a it's literally like a

529
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,820
virus. Everybody after that goes
buys the product. Makes a video

530
00:35:41,820 --> 00:35:44,340
about it so they could possibly
go viral Sue

531
00:35:45,690 --> 00:35:48,960
Bernays, is Bernays is rolling
over in his grave right now.

532
00:35:50,340 --> 00:35:57,690
This pick you picking that one
I'm putting down here? Okay, I

533
00:35:57,690 --> 00:36:02,580
saw I saw this. When I saw it, I
didn't know what I was really

534
00:36:02,580 --> 00:36:06,930
seeing. So I started have to
dig. But I like I said, when I

535
00:36:06,930 --> 00:36:11,490
get this itch on something. And
as you know, the show was gonna

536
00:36:11,490 --> 00:36:14,400
go somewhere else we had talked
about before, just on topic

537
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,360
wise. But this thing came and
just not the other thing. Not,

538
00:36:18,510 --> 00:36:20,700
it didn't knock it out. But it
puts it in perspective, we're

539
00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:23,970
gonna get there. But let's go to
native advertising definition.

540
00:36:24,269 --> 00:36:27,689
So what is a native ad? What
makes an ad native again, native

541
00:36:27,689 --> 00:36:31,919
advertising is a form of paid
media, where the ad experience

542
00:36:32,879 --> 00:36:37,529
follows the form and function of
the user experience in which it

543
00:36:37,529 --> 00:36:42,389
is placed. In other words, if
you are on a blog, then the

544
00:36:42,419 --> 00:36:47,039
advertisements will look like
some of the other blog content

545
00:36:47,099 --> 00:36:52,289
now it'll say sponsored, right?
Or if you're in Facebook, you

546
00:36:52,289 --> 00:36:54,839
know, how many of you guys are
in Facebook? Now you see these

547
00:36:54,869 --> 00:37:00,089
infeed ads? Right? You see the
sponsored posts, the great CTR

548
00:37:00,089 --> 00:37:02,429
declined a great click through
rate declined, click through

549
00:37:02,429 --> 00:37:06,509
rates have been on a dramatic
downtrend. Really, since the

550
00:37:06,509 --> 00:37:10,379
very first banner ad impression
was recorded. The very first

551
00:37:10,379 --> 00:37:12,959
time there was a banner ad on a
website, people clicked on it

552
00:37:13,019 --> 00:37:17,459
the next day, less people
clicked on it, when I mean, it's

553
00:37:17,519 --> 00:37:20,039
that's just that that's how it
always goes. And then it goes on

554
00:37:20,039 --> 00:37:23,759
a steady decline and advertisers
and and media companies have to

555
00:37:23,759 --> 00:37:27,539
innovate and figure out new ways
to get people's attention.

556
00:37:27,569 --> 00:37:30,749
Because again, banner blindness
is a very real thing.

557
00:37:33,030 --> 00:37:35,100
Yeah, banner blindness.

558
00:37:35,970 --> 00:37:37,410
Have you heard that term before?

559
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,400
Yes, because I was a part of the
industry that created it and

560
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:46,200
oversaw its steady decline.
There's one other economic

561
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:52,620
reason this happens. Why this
type of advertising, typically,

562
00:37:52,740 --> 00:37:56,730
the way it's always been thought
of, is you have 24 hours in a

563
00:37:56,730 --> 00:38:02,340
day. And you can have X amount
of, of advertisements per slot,

564
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:07,200
or per pod, as they call it. And
you can have X amount of pods

565
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,780
per hour. And it's a very
delicate balance between what

566
00:38:09,780 --> 00:38:12,330
people will accept and sit
through, or will they switch

567
00:38:12,330 --> 00:38:16,680
away and but the thing is, it's
time based. So the Superbowl can

568
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,730
only have is probably 30 minutes
of commercials over the course

569
00:38:20,730 --> 00:38:22,890
of the whole game is probably
more, I'm just picking a number

570
00:38:23,370 --> 00:38:25,980
30 minutes of commercials, a
number of full minute

571
00:38:25,980 --> 00:38:29,430
commercials, 32nd commercials,
some that has that are a story.

572
00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:32,700
So we'll have four in a row. But
if you want to get in there now

573
00:38:32,700 --> 00:38:36,090
you're in an actual supply and
demand marketplace with the

574
00:38:36,090 --> 00:38:40,080
Internet. How many minutes do
you want? It's infinite. So

575
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,430
there is it's very hard to
create an artificial scarcity of

576
00:38:44,430 --> 00:38:49,800
your advertising inventory when
you have unlimited inventory. So

577
00:38:49,860 --> 00:38:53,640
it demands this is what I found
out after running a podcast

578
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,300
network that and I always say
you cannot monetize the network.

579
00:38:58,350 --> 00:39:02,790
We had a very simple version of
a Bearnaise strategy, although

580
00:39:02,790 --> 00:39:06,210
much more transparent. And
that's how we initially made

581
00:39:06,210 --> 00:39:11,190
money. But the basic inventory
model was flawed from the

582
00:39:11,190 --> 00:39:14,280
outset. And it demands something
else to happen if these

583
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:15,870
companies are going to stay in
business.

584
00:39:17,460 --> 00:39:21,930
So I want to bring up something
here. So we spoke about

585
00:39:22,590 --> 00:39:28,920
blindness. My generation had a
blindness to television

586
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:33,300
commercials. Correct. In the
first generation of Internet

587
00:39:33,300 --> 00:39:39,360
users develop banner blindness.
I think what's happening now is

588
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:44,160
the generation after the
millennial has influenced

589
00:39:44,190 --> 00:39:46,620
influencer about by a blindness
Yep.

590
00:39:48,420 --> 00:39:50,640
I went I would say that's I
would say that's probably

591
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:51,180
correct.

592
00:39:51,570 --> 00:39:56,220
And that's why we're going back
to Popeyes versus Chick fil A.

593
00:39:56,910 --> 00:40:00,630
We need the useful at it. You
know,

594
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:04,560
of which Twitter is built on,

595
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:10,800
right? Somebody's gonna say
something funny about anything

596
00:40:10,830 --> 00:40:13,350
on Twitter if you do enough
searching, and that's certainly

597
00:40:13,350 --> 00:40:13,890
a retweet

598
00:40:13,890 --> 00:40:14,520
right there.

599
00:40:15,809 --> 00:40:21,809
So what happened is, if I have a
product, I'll push it out to the

600
00:40:21,809 --> 00:40:25,439
masses, you know, find a useful
ad it, put the Twitter machine

601
00:40:25,439 --> 00:40:29,429
behind it. Half the people are
gonna think it's funny, they're

602
00:40:29,429 --> 00:40:33,659
gonna share other half the
people are gonna think, man, I'm

603
00:40:33,659 --> 00:40:38,519
funnier than that guy, I go buy
the product. And then I make my

604
00:40:38,519 --> 00:40:43,049
own video. And then this is self
feeding machine. This is very,

605
00:40:43,769 --> 00:40:47,189
I'm sorry, go ahead. And then
the opposition is going to push

606
00:40:47,189 --> 00:40:51,749
back with equal force or more
force field on the fire. And

607
00:40:51,749 --> 00:40:57,029
this is what we saw, um, I saw
this thing pick up. And you

608
00:40:57,029 --> 00:41:02,759
know, just for complete clarity.
Two weeks ago, I saw my daughter

609
00:41:02,759 --> 00:41:08,999
come in with a Popeyes bag. She
didn't eat Popeyes chicken. And

610
00:41:08,999 --> 00:41:17,639
you know, and, oh, you can't had
this two weeks ago. Right? It

611
00:41:17,639 --> 00:41:20,279
was training or her
conversation, you were saying

612
00:41:20,279 --> 00:41:24,239
the teen age or conversate
trivial conversation, it picked

613
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,769
up enough steam. And then it now
is made it's all way too late

614
00:41:28,769 --> 00:41:34,709
night news. So that just goes to
show you how this machine works.

615
00:41:34,709 --> 00:41:37,739
But let's go into the second
clip for native advertising.

616
00:41:37,950 --> 00:41:40,440
So that so either you want to
stick out like a sore thumb, or

617
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,960
you want to blend in but you
don't want to blend in to where

618
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,510
you just look like another
boring banner ad, you want to

619
00:41:45,510 --> 00:41:49,260
blend in and look like content.
And native advertising is the

620
00:41:49,260 --> 00:41:51,360
ultimate reflection of that
because you're not just blending

621
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,020
in looking like content, you're
blending in becoming content.

622
00:41:55,350 --> 00:41:59,550
Okay. And like I said, nobody
wants this. Nobody wants to turn

623
00:41:59,580 --> 00:42:02,760
Pinterest into this. And this is
what you have to do. If you

624
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,590
really want to get click through
rates back up, you got to

625
00:42:04,590 --> 00:42:08,460
surround the content with ugly
obnoxious ads. Nobody wants

626
00:42:08,460 --> 00:42:12,300
that. So we talked about this
morning native advertising is

627
00:42:12,300 --> 00:42:15,510
the thing that is coming on
board that is going to change

628
00:42:15,510 --> 00:42:19,920
this and make it a lot easier.
Gave the stats this morning, but

629
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:25,620
it's really good to reiterate.
Consumers look at native ads 52%

630
00:42:25,650 --> 00:42:30,480
More than traditional banner ads
52% More than traditional banner

631
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,540
ads. These were eye tracking
studies that were done. That's

632
00:42:33,540 --> 00:42:36,570
impressive. But what's more
impressive is that consumers

633
00:42:36,570 --> 00:42:42,240
look at native ads, more than
editorial content, the native

634
00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:46,560
advertisements on these websites
that have started running native

635
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:51,840
advertisements get looked at
more than the actual editorial

636
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,590
content. And the reason is, is
that it's marketers producing

637
00:42:55,590 --> 00:42:57,690
the headlines. I'd like

638
00:42:57,690 --> 00:43:01,830
to add here that the New York
Times opened a native

639
00:43:01,830 --> 00:43:05,160
advertising division several
years ago, I'm gonna think at

640
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:11,250
least five years ago, and it is
a thriving business. And I'm not

641
00:43:11,250 --> 00:43:14,820
I don't know if it may even be
so that they're advertorial as

642
00:43:14,820 --> 00:43:18,030
we'll call her the native ads
are consumed more than than

643
00:43:18,030 --> 00:43:21,960
their traditional news. They
disclaim it, but it's so small.

644
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,540
Again, it's the fine print just
keeping within the realms of

645
00:43:24,540 --> 00:43:29,940
what's legal. And one other
thing to the equation is where's

646
00:43:29,970 --> 00:43:34,830
banner ads would deliver a
report that said, Well, this

647
00:43:34,830 --> 00:43:37,860
banner ad loaded on this
computer screen, it could have

648
00:43:37,860 --> 00:43:40,980
been below the fold, it would be
below the screen. So he didn't

649
00:43:40,980 --> 00:43:43,950
see it. It might have been
obfuscated by something else.

650
00:43:43,950 --> 00:43:47,040
But that's the best metric we
have. It's very poor

651
00:43:47,310 --> 00:43:50,730
information. When it and these
are established terms.

652
00:43:50,730 --> 00:43:56,070
Engagement is a big term for
advertising, measurement for

653
00:43:56,070 --> 00:44:00,060
statistical analysis of how your
campaign is doing. And Twitter

654
00:44:00,060 --> 00:44:03,750
will deliver back to Popeyes.
Here's how many people retweeted

655
00:44:03,750 --> 00:44:08,430
here's how many people sent it,
added a friend in their retweet

656
00:44:08,430 --> 00:44:11,940
tag somebody, here's people who
made a video. Here's people who

657
00:44:11,940 --> 00:44:15,510
wrote a joke. Here's other
people who are trending. It is a

658
00:44:15,510 --> 00:44:18,780
beautiful setup for this type of
campaign.

659
00:44:20,850 --> 00:44:26,820
Yeah, so this leads me to ask
the question Where Where did

660
00:44:26,820 --> 00:44:35,160
nothing come from? The term if
saw, we saw that a government

661
00:44:35,190 --> 00:44:39,510
agency was set up for this. We
spoke about it before. I think

662
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:42,750
it was the Office of Information
and Regulatory Affairs if I'm

663
00:44:42,750 --> 00:44:46,350
not mistaking the nudge
division, the nurse division,

664
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:53,430
but that was broken up. So we
saw this in politics, I think

665
00:44:53,460 --> 00:44:56,850
even before we thought roll it
out into the public realm, or it

666
00:44:56,850 --> 00:45:00,210
said the private industry realm
and that's why I'm headed With

667
00:45:00,210 --> 00:45:06,600
this, this idea. We saw this.
Oh, Barack Obama was called the

668
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,630
first internet president. I want
to say our social media

669
00:45:09,630 --> 00:45:12,150
president is that is that fair
assessment.

670
00:45:12,180 --> 00:45:16,740
That was the setup to hit just
in the last part before the

671
00:45:16,740 --> 00:45:20,400
election. What I remember is the
extreme disappointment with the

672
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:25,230
relaunch of whitehouse.gov.
Everybody went, alright, this is

673
00:45:25,230 --> 00:45:27,240
the internet president, you
know, where's my White House

674
00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:30,720
blog? You know, we're thinking
this was going to be complete

675
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:32,310
democracy was going to change.

676
00:45:33,450 --> 00:45:36,690
But I will say he was the first
one to really have social media

677
00:45:36,690 --> 00:45:38,040
accounts, right. Absolutely.

678
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:43,680
Absolutely. Yep. So at POTUS was
was crud that account was

679
00:45:44,580 --> 00:45:46,950
created for Barack Obama.

680
00:45:47,609 --> 00:45:52,769
Right. I think the guys behind
his team understood this

681
00:45:52,769 --> 00:45:58,949
mentality of tying himself to
brands. Now we're about to come

682
00:45:58,949 --> 00:46:03,299
full circle here. But to the
brands that had to have we're

683
00:46:03,299 --> 00:46:11,219
not new brand. It was nostalgia.
It was people like Mahatma

684
00:46:11,219 --> 00:46:17,129
Gandhi, MLK, Cesar Chavez,
anybody that you could relate to

685
00:46:17,129 --> 00:46:20,609
whatever gender you were trying
to push. Cesar Chavez would be

686
00:46:20,609 --> 00:46:25,229
for immigration. MLK, Mahatma
Gandhi would be for social

687
00:46:25,229 --> 00:46:26,489
justice issues.

688
00:46:26,700 --> 00:46:29,610
it right down there was hope and
change. It was all part of the

689
00:46:29,610 --> 00:46:30,180
same thing.

690
00:46:31,230 --> 00:46:33,780
Right? And even in the clip,
that's why I put the clip from

691
00:46:33,780 --> 00:46:38,370
trick baby. If you listen to
what he said, you said you can't

692
00:46:38,370 --> 00:46:48,390
choke hoping to people. Good
one. Right. So we're saying

693
00:46:48,780 --> 00:46:52,200
these people understand we put
this guy and it's not exclusive

694
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:56,100
to the black community. This is
all people. It's all about what

695
00:46:56,100 --> 00:47:00,240
we tools we need to nudge who we
need to nudge. So one of my

696
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:03,660
favorite shows is Mad Men. I
don't know if you've seen it

697
00:47:03,690 --> 00:47:08,400
tonight show about advertising
in the 1960s and 70s. If you if

698
00:47:08,550 --> 00:47:11,280
the listeners haven't heard this
show, and if you haven't seen

699
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:15,900
the show, Adam, excellent show.
Great writing. And it shows you

700
00:47:15,900 --> 00:47:19,140
the you know behind the curtains
of advertising.

701
00:47:19,470 --> 00:47:22,500
It's a classic. It's it is
indeed that good.

702
00:47:23,460 --> 00:47:27,120
And this clip, this is Donald
Draper speaking on nostalgia.

703
00:47:28,530 --> 00:47:33,360
And Teddy told me the most
important idea in advertising is

704
00:47:33,810 --> 00:47:38,970
new creates an itch. You simply
put your product in there as a

705
00:47:38,970 --> 00:47:45,600
kind of calamine lotion. But he
also talks about a deeper bond

706
00:47:45,780 --> 00:48:04,710
with the product. Nostalgia It's
delicate, the potent. Teddy told

707
00:48:04,710 --> 00:48:09,900
me that in Greek, nostalgia
literally means the pain from an

708
00:48:09,900 --> 00:48:20,160
old wound. It's a twinge in your
heart. far more powerful than

709
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:20,940
memory alone.

710
00:48:22,140 --> 00:48:26,580
Nice one. So nostalgie. And the
key point I want to take away

711
00:48:26,580 --> 00:48:32,310
from that clip is it's more
powerful than memory alone. So

712
00:48:32,310 --> 00:48:35,070
it's not about how you remember
something. It's about how you

713
00:48:35,070 --> 00:48:41,340
felt about that. That leads me
into Barack Obama using these

714
00:48:42,990 --> 00:48:46,860
images of people of the past
Martin Luther King, Mahatma

715
00:48:46,860 --> 00:48:51,270
Gandhi, and she was Cesar
Chavez. Let's listen to Brock

716
00:48:51,270 --> 00:48:54,210
Obama deeply influenced by
Mahatma Gandhi.

717
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:58,050
Obama himself is deeply
influenced by both Martin Luther

718
00:48:58,050 --> 00:49:01,680
King and Gandhi. And when in
India, he will be paying homage

719
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,900
to the father of the nation at
large caught.

720
00:49:05,700 --> 00:49:09,270
I might not be standing before
you today as President of the

721
00:49:09,270 --> 00:49:13,860
United States. Had it not been
for Gandhi in the message he

722
00:49:13,860 --> 00:49:15,750
shared and inspired with
America. And

723
00:49:17,490 --> 00:49:20,430
it was this admiration that saw
a special moment during Prime

724
00:49:20,430 --> 00:49:24,300
Minister Modi's us was it as
Obama personally escorted Modi

725
00:49:24,450 --> 00:49:27,240
to the Martin Luther King
Memorial. And now the Indian

726
00:49:27,240 --> 00:49:30,840
prime minister could reciprocate
when the President pays homage

727
00:49:30,930 --> 00:49:31,830
at Raj cot.

728
00:49:35,100 --> 00:49:39,360
So what we see here is Brock
Obama, and we're not picking on

729
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:43,560
Obama. What we're doing is is
showing a public figure aligning

730
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:49,410
himself with another public
figure that supposedly had a

731
00:49:51,030 --> 00:49:55,890
message or a perception about
him about being peaceful,

732
00:49:56,820 --> 00:50:04,890
nonviolent resistance, so Social
justice issue. So what I'm going

733
00:50:04,890 --> 00:50:09,690
here show is if you go and post
a tweet with Mahatma Gandhi, on

734
00:50:09,690 --> 00:50:12,630
your tweet is going to be
perceived a certain way correct

735
00:50:12,630 --> 00:50:18,330
or not? Yes. So what Obama did
was align himself to these

736
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:23,430
images the same way. And it
creates a certain image about

737
00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:27,210
yourself the same way Popeyes
did with aligning themselves,

738
00:50:27,450 --> 00:50:32,940
you know, with, with images, you
know, with propaganda or public

739
00:50:32,940 --> 00:50:35,580
relations they were trying to
push. Let's listen to Barack

740
00:50:35,580 --> 00:50:36,990
Obama to

741
00:50:37,170 --> 00:50:40,800
in 2009. One question by
students, President Obama had

742
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:44,550
said that his ideal dinner guest
would have been Mahatma Gandhi,

743
00:50:44,670 --> 00:50:49,020
a person from whom he is hugely
inspired. Even during his India

744
00:50:49,020 --> 00:50:53,430
visit, Obama spoke of the
influence of Gandhi on his life.

745
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,940
So when the American president
comes to India, he has made sure

746
00:50:57,090 --> 00:51:00,600
that his itinerary includes
paying homage here at the

747
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:01,290
Rajghat

748
00:51:01,890 --> 00:51:03,540
yeah, great campaign.

749
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:08,490
Right. So he aligned himself and
Barack Obama is a very, very

750
00:51:08,490 --> 00:51:12,780
intelligent, knowledgeable
person. He aligned himself with

751
00:51:12,780 --> 00:51:15,630
Mahatma Gandhi, which incident
and parallel launch yourself

752
00:51:15,630 --> 00:51:19,530
with Martin Luther King Jr. But
there's one problem. And this

753
00:51:19,530 --> 00:51:23,100
goes back to Donald Draper's
point. It's not about your

754
00:51:23,100 --> 00:51:26,970
memory. It's about the field,
that twinge in your heart that

755
00:51:26,970 --> 00:51:32,040
these images and these figures
iconic figures bring up. But

756
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,160
let's go and look at my was
Mahatma Gandhi a racist.

757
00:51:35,460 --> 00:51:38,520
Even after his death, he
continues to inspire civil

758
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:42,150
rights movements across the
world. But it was Gandhi's early

759
00:51:42,150 --> 00:51:44,790
writings in South Africa that
have cast a shadow on his

760
00:51:44,790 --> 00:51:49,800
legacy. During his speech in
Mumbai in 1896, he spoke of the

761
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:53,070
savage half heathen natives who
spend their lives in indolence

762
00:51:53,100 --> 00:51:56,850
and nakedness. He used the
derogatory slur for blacks in

763
00:51:56,850 --> 00:52:01,650
South Africa Kaffir liberally in
his writings, some accused

764
00:52:01,650 --> 00:52:04,380
Gandhi of believing in the
superiority of the Aryan race,

765
00:52:04,650 --> 00:52:07,350
thinking that blacks were
inferior to whites and Indians.

766
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,980
In fact, one of the first legal
battles done for twins South

767
00:52:10,980 --> 00:52:14,160
Africa, was to demand a separate
entrance for Indians and post

768
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:17,670
offices, so they were not
classed as blacks. So why do

769
00:52:17,670 --> 00:52:21,690
many see Gandhi as an icon of
justice? Critics of Gandhi say

770
00:52:21,690 --> 00:52:24,600
that his writings were a mistake
in South Africa. contrast with

771
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,090
what he wrote in his
autobiography later on in life,

772
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:31,950
he effectively tidied up some of
his earlier views. But others

773
00:52:31,950 --> 00:52:34,710
counter this portrayal of
Gandhi. They say that this

774
00:52:34,710 --> 00:52:37,710
prejudice was born on for
Colonial context, and reinforced

775
00:52:37,710 --> 00:52:40,380
by the fact that at this stage,
he had had little contact with

776
00:52:40,380 --> 00:52:43,860
Africans. And after serving as a
volunteer to engines and news

777
00:52:43,860 --> 00:52:46,410
during the Boer War in South
Africa, he realized the

778
00:52:46,410 --> 00:52:49,140
brutality of White's against
blacks and some of his views

779
00:52:49,140 --> 00:52:49,680
changed.

780
00:52:52,980 --> 00:52:57,060
So hopefully we see what's
happening here. It's not about

781
00:52:57,300 --> 00:53:01,560
what is true or not. It's all
about the image Gandhi. It's

782
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:06,900
about Ms. Gandhi. And then as a
political figure, you align

783
00:53:06,900 --> 00:53:11,430
yourself with that image, the
image and establish or overrides

784
00:53:11,430 --> 00:53:17,040
what is factually true. Once you
align yourself to that, you get

785
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:21,570
the machine going behind what
the narrative is. And there you

786
00:53:21,570 --> 00:53:22,320
have it.

787
00:53:24,210 --> 00:53:28,410
Yeah, and you know, I was going
to say, as an aside that Twitter

788
00:53:28,410 --> 00:53:31,980
is such a great example of this.
But this is also kind of what

789
00:53:31,980 --> 00:53:35,610
you're seeing with the so called
television news networks. They

790
00:53:35,610 --> 00:53:39,030
know one thing that the money
that these candidates raise is

791
00:53:39,030 --> 00:53:42,150
coming to them that they don't
know exactly how it's going to

792
00:53:42,150 --> 00:53:45,930
be divvied up. And they don't
know because there is a spread

793
00:53:45,930 --> 00:53:52,560
over digital now. They, they are
already acting like a beef

794
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:56,880
network continuously I might
add, to attract the people they

795
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:02,700
want, who will supplement that
with with the television

796
00:54:02,700 --> 00:54:07,800
equivalent of display of
banners, commercials, but who

797
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:11,490
knows what else they I'm sure
they have all kinds of cool

798
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:15,660
native advertising deals that
you can set up with them and

799
00:54:15,660 --> 00:54:21,150
craft and create and under the
guise of hey, it's it's a it's

800
00:54:21,150 --> 00:54:24,300
official word. Here's a news
network which we all know it's

801
00:54:24,300 --> 00:54:24,720
not.

802
00:54:25,740 --> 00:54:28,860
And the point I wanted to
highlight in this is it's not

803
00:54:28,860 --> 00:54:35,130
that Obama didn't know about
Gandhi's past. He had he had to

804
00:54:35,130 --> 00:54:39,090
no this is this is not like a
stuff that was just no secret

805
00:54:39,090 --> 00:54:45,180
now, right? This is no secret.
Even I'm president of South

806
00:54:45,180 --> 00:54:48,570
Africa, Nelson Mandela knew
about this and when he was

807
00:54:48,570 --> 00:54:51,720
alive, and you know, he kind of
said we got to look past that he

808
00:54:51,720 --> 00:54:54,990
was a victim. I mean, a product
of his times that was that was

809
00:54:55,410 --> 00:54:58,200
excuses like kind of Pooh
poohing it. What I'm saying is

810
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:03,570
somebody in that room And this
is just what I allege, says you

811
00:55:03,570 --> 00:55:10,680
know what? His image is greater
than what is fact? Yep, that's

812
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:14,610
what they said. And then how it
also works to go back into what

813
00:55:14,610 --> 00:55:18,780
we talked about with Chick fil A
Popeyes when somebody comes out

814
00:55:18,780 --> 00:55:23,310
says, but Gandhi was racist.
What's the natural reflex? Are

815
00:55:23,310 --> 00:55:26,880
you crazy? You know, what do you
mean?

816
00:55:27,450 --> 00:55:30,690
It goes it goes both ways.
You're right. Yeah. Benefit for

817
00:55:30,690 --> 00:55:32,910
everybody. Yeah. Yeah.

818
00:55:33,450 --> 00:55:36,480
You know, and then it makes you
bigger. And for the people not

819
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:38,910
in the know, they're like, No,
Gandhi MLK, you know, saying

820
00:55:38,910 --> 00:55:41,790
that's the association. Yeah.
How can he be racist? You know,

821
00:55:41,820 --> 00:55:47,280
Gandhi and Nelson Mandela. So
how could he be racist? And what

822
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:53,550
it does is what we always talked
about before, is the act the

823
00:55:53,550 --> 00:55:58,080
politics, they need a good
fight. That's what we were

824
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:01,560
talking about before with Kamala
Harris and Joe Biden, you need

825
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:06,210
to raise his beef. They need to
beef beef sales. No one nobody

826
00:56:06,210 --> 00:56:12,030
wants to see a lopsided contest.
It's not good. You cut the

827
00:56:12,030 --> 00:56:14,430
football game off at halftime if
there's a blowout.

828
00:56:15,210 --> 00:56:17,280
It's exactly right. Yeah,

829
00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:22,740
this is terrible. Um, but they
create these beeps.

830
00:56:24,060 --> 00:56:29,790
And let me just say, the classic
beef is the so called pole. This

831
00:56:29,790 --> 00:56:34,230
is the classic mainstream trick
of the beef. Oh, look how close

832
00:56:34,230 --> 00:56:34,860
they are.

833
00:56:36,030 --> 00:56:39,840
Remember, remember the
conversation we had about Kamala

834
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:44,130
Harris? And I'll tell you it got
me because the post debate polls

835
00:56:44,130 --> 00:56:48,810
said she's climbing in the polls
got a jump. She got a bomb, a

836
00:56:48,810 --> 00:56:50,850
bomb. That was what that was.
That was the turn. I'm like

837
00:56:50,850 --> 00:56:54,990
what? Like, Oh, hold on. Oh,
she's climbing. I got nervous.

838
00:56:55,230 --> 00:56:58,110
And notice they're not talking
about the polls now because

839
00:56:58,110 --> 00:57:02,820
she's under 10%. That's right.
It's bad. It's bad for business

840
00:57:02,820 --> 00:57:06,990
that we see. Just for the sports
fans out there. That's why they

841
00:57:06,990 --> 00:57:09,990
had to get rid of the Golden
State Warriors. That's why they

842
00:57:09,990 --> 00:57:15,630
hate really hate dynasties and
sports. They need what is called

843
00:57:15,630 --> 00:57:24,570
parity. And this new form of
advertising, I believe, creates

844
00:57:24,570 --> 00:57:29,070
parity, not only in the
political sector, but also the

845
00:57:29,070 --> 00:57:34,350
public sector because what the
social media companies will do

846
00:57:34,350 --> 00:57:37,980
is back the underdog is good to
back the underdog. I'm sure.

847
00:57:39,030 --> 00:57:44,430
This is just Just what I think.
I have no proof of it. I'm sure

848
00:57:44,430 --> 00:57:49,380
Twitter probably gave Popeyes a
better rate than they were to

849
00:57:49,380 --> 00:57:52,320
Chick fil A because guess what?
Now Chipotle has to step their

850
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:55,380
advertising up? Yep. Before it's
Chick fil A was the big boss

851
00:57:55,380 --> 00:57:58,290
applesauce of the industry. And
like we don't have to advertise.

852
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:01,230
We only open six days a week,
what are you talking about? But

853
00:58:01,230 --> 00:58:02,880
when you create the competitor,

854
00:58:02,910 --> 00:58:04,770
yeah, then you're in you're in
the game.

855
00:58:05,490 --> 00:58:09,150
You have to be now they have to
up their buys. You know, we

856
00:58:09,150 --> 00:58:12,810
used to do a version of this. I
worked at while many radio

857
00:58:12,810 --> 00:58:18,180
stations but the most famous one
was Z 100 in New York. And they

858
00:58:18,180 --> 00:58:21,750
came in, they weren't even in
New York, they were New Jersey

859
00:58:21,750 --> 00:58:24,480
at the top of the hour, they
would say that broadcasting live

860
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:30,750
across New York majority. It's a
really softly but they went from

861
00:58:30,750 --> 00:58:34,350
worst to first. And it was it
was in a way a social media

862
00:58:34,350 --> 00:58:37,020
context where there was a way
the underdog were kicking those

863
00:58:37,020 --> 00:58:40,500
acids over there, those guys in
the fancy towers or wherever.

864
00:58:40,740 --> 00:58:45,150
And then we add bumper stickers,
and honk your horn for z 100.

865
00:58:45,150 --> 00:58:49,650
And you know that you activated
there's a word we'd like to use

866
00:58:49,650 --> 00:58:53,910
you activated your listeners to
go and promote your station and

867
00:58:53,970 --> 00:58:58,080
Z 100 has been well, they're not
no longer number one just for

868
00:58:58,140 --> 00:59:00,810
changing marketplace, but they
were number one for decades.

869
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:07,740
And we've seen this in the faux
conspiracy community. Unique

870
00:59:07,770 --> 00:59:11,640
they use the elite as the
competition to generate you

871
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:16,560
know, the listener base, you
know, all this this way they

872
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:22,080
Hey, they don't really give you
an answer to who they is. But

873
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:27,330
this is how it works. So just
another example of how Obama and

874
00:59:27,330 --> 00:59:30,600
the reason why I'm using Obama
is because he everyone, everyone

875
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:34,320
understands this example. It's
great. He was the first social

876
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:39,000
media brand to brand Obama, the
brand Obama Yeah, first social

877
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:44,670
media president and this is him
on Cesar Chavez.

878
00:59:45,419 --> 00:59:57,689
And so today we celebrate Cesar
Chavez. Cesar would be the first

879
00:59:57,689 --> 01:00:01,859
to say that this is not a
monument to one man In. The

880
01:00:01,859 --> 01:00:05,189
movement he helped to lead was
sustained by a generation of

881
01:00:05,189 --> 01:00:10,319
organizers who stood up and
spoke out and urged others to do

882
01:00:10,319 --> 01:00:14,339
the same, including the Great
Dolores Huerta, who is here

883
01:00:14,339 --> 01:00:14,759
today

884
01:00:20,970 --> 01:00:24,390
drew strength from Americans of
every race and every background

885
01:00:24,390 --> 01:00:27,810
who marched and boycotted
together on behalf of La Causa.

886
01:00:29,460 --> 01:00:33,690
And it was always inspired by
the farmworkers themselves, some

887
01:00:33,690 --> 01:00:39,480
of whom are with us. This place
belongs to you too. But the

888
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,540
truth is we would not be here if
it weren't for season.

889
01:00:43,170 --> 01:00:47,730
You know, I really miss him. I
used to love cutting up his his

890
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:52,260
sound bites and stuff. It was
great order. Fantastic. Great,

891
01:00:52,260 --> 01:00:52,530
great

892
01:00:52,530 --> 01:00:58,860
pitch me that yes. Right. So
this man Ah, so see she Cesar

893
01:00:58,860 --> 01:01:03,090
Chavez. Do you have any
background or anything? Or what

894
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:07,950
what what is the use to push
what was the word frontman for

895
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:14,370
for the workers for organized
labor to bust up evil bosses?

896
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:20,760
And what is the modern day use
for Cesar Chavez?

897
01:01:21,390 --> 01:01:28,500
The name of the road in here in
Austin? He looks good on T

898
01:01:28,500 --> 01:01:32,640
shirts. Now. I guess he would be
a be considered the resistance,

899
01:01:33,180 --> 01:01:37,200
the resistance and he's used as
the face for illegal

900
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:43,020
immigration. Correct? Yes. Hmm.
Interesting. Funny how that

901
01:01:43,020 --> 01:01:47,070
works. Mo. Funny how that works.
Click 15

902
01:01:47,580 --> 01:01:50,190
We maintain every culture is
different. It's always been

903
01:01:50,190 --> 01:01:52,620
different. This is why every
culture and farmworkers whenever

904
01:01:52,620 --> 01:01:56,880
organized before, as long as we
have a poor country bordering

905
01:01:56,880 --> 01:02:00,600
California, is gonna be ready
for the wind strikes. Strikes

906
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:06,060
are one, normally by the unions.
With an employer, this is a case

907
01:02:06,060 --> 01:02:09,240
right now one of the strikes
that we have with the with the

908
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:13,110
beaut gas and oil company where
we've closed them down, that

909
01:02:13,110 --> 01:02:16,530
have been unable to get
strikebreakers or have gotten

910
01:02:16,530 --> 01:02:21,090
very few. And then all of a
sudden yesterday morning. They

911
01:02:21,090 --> 01:02:25,110
brought into her 20 wetbacks.
They started the illegals from

912
01:02:25,110 --> 01:02:25,530
Mexico.

913
01:02:27,420 --> 01:02:30,300
I don't know much I've only been
in Texas for nine years. But I

914
01:02:30,300 --> 01:02:34,350
guarantee you using the term
wetbacks is not a good idea.

915
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:39,150
But why would you use him for
the face of illegal immigration,

916
01:02:39,180 --> 01:02:43,200
he was clearly against illegal
immigration. He says if you

917
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:49,170
border loans you border on a
poor country like Mexico. It's

918
01:02:49,170 --> 01:02:51,960
gonna be impossible for union
workers to have, you know, form

919
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:56,640
unions because you basically
have these union busters. And he

920
01:02:56,640 --> 01:03:00,870
used them to call them a did not
derogatory name, and also use

921
01:03:00,870 --> 01:03:06,330
the term illegals. So how is it?
Once again, Obama was a smart

922
01:03:06,330 --> 01:03:09,420
person, his team is full of
smart people, those people in

923
01:03:09,420 --> 01:03:13,890
that crowd cheering for him. Had
to know where Cesar Chavez if

924
01:03:13,890 --> 01:03:17,190
you if you're about the cause,
well, this is he said the law

925
01:03:17,190 --> 01:03:18,780
calls is what he called it
right? Which is,

926
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:26,250
yep. Well, it's deeply rooted in
nostalgia feeling muscle memory,

927
01:03:26,250 --> 01:03:31,290
training, imagery, memes, all
these things play into it. And

928
01:03:32,670 --> 01:03:36,240
you know, Chavez specifically
has been used throughout the

929
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:42,090
years in so many different
movements. That, I guess with

930
01:03:42,180 --> 01:03:48,000
poor education, people just
don't think about it. And they

931
01:03:48,030 --> 01:03:51,570
glom on to the feeling of okay,
I feel good about this guy

932
01:03:51,570 --> 01:03:53,760
following this, this image.

933
01:03:54,540 --> 01:03:58,980
But there has to be a
calculation there. I mean, when

934
01:03:58,980 --> 01:04:03,930
you're doing vetting of power
for candidates, when you're

935
01:04:03,930 --> 01:04:09,270
doing vetting for memes, there
has to be a pro and a con on it,

936
01:04:09,270 --> 01:04:12,720
you know, or opposition to say,
well, that could be used this

937
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:15,690
way. Don't use that term,
because that could be perceived

938
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:20,430
this way. I'm just interested
about what in that conversation

939
01:04:20,460 --> 01:04:27,120
in that room. Somebody had to
know who Gandhi really was, who

940
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:32,040
Cesar Chavez really was, and for
them to continue and go with it.

941
01:04:33,210 --> 01:04:33,600
Well,

942
01:04:33,630 --> 01:04:36,960
you know, yes, again, it comes
back to something we talked

943
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:40,530
about initially, it's testing
and it's not that hard to do. I

944
01:04:40,530 --> 01:04:42,930
mean, it is done every single
day. You can see it on YouTube,

945
01:04:42,930 --> 01:04:46,710
you know, college campus,
reform, whatever it's called,

946
01:04:47,010 --> 01:04:50,580
where they ask people questions,
and they usually have a bogus

947
01:04:50,580 --> 01:04:54,210
question, or something that's
obviously dumb, and they all

948
01:04:54,210 --> 01:04:58,680
fall for it. That's just who
human beings are. We're shallow

949
01:04:58,710 --> 01:05:03,600
there and it of overtime,
something's been such as image

950
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:08,310
Cesar Chavez has been moved into
resistance leader, you know

951
01:05:08,310 --> 01:05:12,030
striving for freedom, these
kinds of feelings. Once you

952
01:05:12,030 --> 01:05:15,990
identify, it's there, however it
got there, then you can use it

953
01:05:16,050 --> 01:05:19,050
starting that I think is much
harder now, but I don't think

954
01:05:19,050 --> 01:05:24,420
today, you could use image Obama
for a candidate, maybe in 40

955
01:05:24,420 --> 01:05:26,250
years from now, it could be used
again.

956
01:05:27,990 --> 01:05:31,620
I have a different take on that.
And you know, I may be wrong,

957
01:05:31,950 --> 01:05:40,140
but I think they knew their
pitch man was so good that the

958
01:05:40,140 --> 01:05:44,910
people will want to believe what
he was saying. Even if the facts

959
01:05:44,910 --> 01:05:48,030
came up, even even it because
the facts always come up in the

960
01:05:48,030 --> 01:05:52,830
social media. Sorry, sir.
Circle, how somebody's always

961
01:05:52,830 --> 01:05:56,640
gonna have a link or reply
saying, hey, what about this?

962
01:05:56,670 --> 01:05:59,310
Right, you know, you know,
saying

963
01:05:59,940 --> 01:06:04,230
more, more so today, more so
today. This when Obama came into

964
01:06:04,230 --> 01:06:07,590
office 2008 Twitter had really
only been around for a year or

965
01:06:07,590 --> 01:06:11,820
two, Ashton Kutcher was the
first million follower person it

966
01:06:11,820 --> 01:06:17,670
was very immature at the time. I
feel that and the algos also

967
01:06:17,670 --> 01:06:20,730
weren't quite as sophisticated,
if at all.

968
01:06:21,780 --> 01:06:22,680
That's a fair point.

969
01:06:23,100 --> 01:06:26,880
So it's it's it's become easier
in some regards today and

970
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:33,810
harder. I think the way I look
at it is I think Obama was the

971
01:06:33,810 --> 01:06:41,340
influencer in chief agreed.
Totally agree. You're running,

972
01:06:41,370 --> 01:06:44,370
you're running. You're running
on your, your, your brand, what

973
01:06:44,370 --> 01:06:49,860
you're running on literally hope
and change, not economics, jobs,

974
01:06:49,890 --> 01:06:52,440
you know, any of the traditional
things. And man, we were ready

975
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:56,820
for it. That's another thing. We
were ready for that?

976
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:00,840
And then he could clean up and
say, Nah, God, he's cool, man,

977
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:06,330
when you talk about, you know, I
mean, yeah, Nah, man. Nah. So

978
01:07:06,330 --> 01:07:13,230
what I'm just going to say is, I
think this came before what

979
01:07:13,230 --> 01:07:19,410
we're seeing now, in the private
sector, of what we're seeing

980
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:24,630
with the Popeyes versus Chick
fil A, they understand that we

981
01:07:24,630 --> 01:07:30,480
can have people with a have
conversation with taboo, taboo

982
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:36,750
topics, and people's need to be
part of the conversation to be

983
01:07:36,750 --> 01:07:41,160
part of following something is
so strong. They all go over

984
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:43,680
that. That point? Well, let

985
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:48,930
me stop you right there.
Millions of black Americans

986
01:07:49,260 --> 01:07:53,490
looked over the point that
Barack Obama was not an African

987
01:07:53,490 --> 01:08:01,650
American. And took it and took
it. And as you've explained

988
01:08:01,650 --> 01:08:06,780
previously, second term will do
stuff for us took it freely

989
01:08:06,810 --> 01:08:07,950
agreed with it.

990
01:08:09,450 --> 01:08:14,520
Right. And then what well, he
was backed by his wife.

991
01:08:17,190 --> 01:08:20,940
Image Image. Yes, exactly.
Current Association. exactly

992
01:08:20,940 --> 01:08:24,030
know the way Oprah has Steadman,
you know, image?

993
01:08:24,210 --> 01:08:28,620
Yes, it's all about association.
So it's funny that you bring

994
01:08:28,620 --> 01:08:33,330
them up. And we're gonna get
into this. The final clip.

995
01:08:34,830 --> 01:08:37,050
American factories, Obama's,

996
01:08:37,140 --> 01:08:41,070
you guys could do whatever you
want. Why did you decide to do

997
01:08:41,070 --> 01:08:41,670
what you're doing

998
01:08:41,700 --> 01:08:45,600
one way of looking at what we've
both been doing for the last 20

999
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:51,480
years, maybe most of our careers
once we left law, it was to tell

1000
01:08:51,480 --> 01:08:54,360
stories. If you want to be in
relationships with people and

1001
01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:57,030
connect with them and work
together with them. You have

1002
01:08:57,030 --> 01:08:58,800
to know their story. You have to
know them.

1003
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:03,570
Yeah, this is the big $65
million Netflix deal.

1004
01:09:04,290 --> 01:09:07,140
But did you catch them? I mean,
what did you take away from that

1005
01:09:07,140 --> 01:09:08,280
clip? I don't want to ruin it.

1006
01:09:08,430 --> 01:09:12,450
They're going to tell stories.
And it sounded to me like they

1007
01:09:12,450 --> 01:09:15,180
were going to tell stories about
people whose stories they

1008
01:09:15,180 --> 01:09:18,990
understood, which to me would
mean black Americans, and that's

1009
01:09:18,990 --> 01:09:20,310
who they're going to be
targeting.

1010
01:09:21,690 --> 01:09:27,660
One before I tell you what, what
you missed. It's funny that he

1011
01:09:27,690 --> 01:09:30,990
his first major project on the
Netflix deal that you referenced

1012
01:09:30,990 --> 01:09:39,660
the $65 million deal was talking
about how the Chinese industry

1013
01:09:39,690 --> 01:09:44,310
practices as affecting a middle
America, which That in itself is

1014
01:09:44,310 --> 01:09:44,730
just

1015
01:09:45,330 --> 01:09:50,130
really well I didn't know that
seeing as he was such a part of

1016
01:09:50,130 --> 01:09:53,760
shipping everything over to
China. Interesting. He's kind of

1017
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:55,140
going against the grain now.

1018
01:09:55,950 --> 01:10:00,240
That and then if you say who
will make a movie about me Rural

1019
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:04,320
America being gutted. It
wouldn't be Obama. No, because

1020
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:07,890
that might be his legacy. That
will be his legacy. And you had

1021
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:11,670
eight years and you didn't do
anything. And really, Trump is

1022
01:10:11,670 --> 01:10:15,810
the one that is been anti China,
if you want to say that. I mean,

1023
01:10:15,900 --> 01:10:18,450
that's not really a fair
assessment what he is, but he'd

1024
01:10:18,450 --> 01:10:21,750
been pro America and putting
strong

1025
01:10:23,130 --> 01:10:26,370
books at trumpets. Trump has
been anti China vocally with the

1026
01:10:26,370 --> 01:10:29,280
same message since the late 80s.

1027
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:33,420
Yes, I agree with that. So that
first that was one thing that

1028
01:10:33,420 --> 01:10:37,830
caught me on the surface of wow,
you making a movie about this?

1029
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:38,310
Oh, shoot

1030
01:10:38,310 --> 01:10:40,920
mechanic? Can I listen to the
clip? Again, before you reveal

1031
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:44,460
it? I want to see if I catch it
this time. Okay. You guys could

1032
01:10:44,460 --> 01:10:47,670
do whatever you want. Why did
you decide to do what you're

1033
01:10:47,670 --> 01:10:47,970
doing

1034
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:51,900
one way of looking at what we've
both been doing for the last 20

1035
01:10:51,900 --> 01:10:54,450
years, maybe most of our career
viewers

1036
01:10:54,450 --> 01:10:56,490
once we left law, it

1037
01:10:56,520 --> 01:11:00,240
was to tell stories. If you want
to be in relationships with

1038
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:03,000
people and connect with them and
work together with them.

1039
01:11:03,030 --> 01:11:05,100
You have to know their story.
You have to know them.

1040
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:07,650
Tell stories,

1041
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:12,450
tell stories. We tell stories.

1042
01:11:13,290 --> 01:11:15,870
Telling stories. For the last 20
years

1043
01:11:15,900 --> 01:11:19,830
I've been I've been telling
fables and telling stories,

1044
01:11:19,860 --> 01:11:23,190
fables on the turntable some
shit like that, yes, of course,

1045
01:11:23,220 --> 01:11:24,060
fables,

1046
01:11:24,450 --> 01:11:29,070
to connect with the people. It
doesn't matter about what my

1047
01:11:29,070 --> 01:11:33,150
policies are, it doesn't matter
about who supports us, it

1048
01:11:33,150 --> 01:11:38,010
doesn't matter about anything.
If you could tell a great story,

1049
01:11:39,060 --> 01:11:42,690
and connect with the person, you
can sell them anything.

1050
01:11:42,719 --> 01:11:49,049
And my wife has been a marketer
and communications expert all of

1051
01:11:49,049 --> 01:11:53,519
her career. And this is exactly
her words, say if you can tell a

1052
01:11:53,519 --> 01:11:57,059
story you can get people to buy
in and believe. And that's

1053
01:11:57,089 --> 01:12:00,779
that's what marketers do all day
long tell stories, it doesn't

1054
01:12:00,779 --> 01:12:04,529
necessarily mean that you're
giving him the truth, or

1055
01:12:04,529 --> 01:12:09,569
educating them. You're telling a
story to communicate an idea

1056
01:12:09,599 --> 01:12:10,829
true, false or indifferent.

1057
01:12:11,549 --> 01:12:15,809
What it does is it lowers that
wall down. And just to bring

1058
01:12:15,809 --> 01:12:21,419
this full circle, where we're
at. Once you lower that wall

1059
01:12:21,419 --> 01:12:26,489
down of No, when people try to
say You sound as natural, they

1060
01:12:26,489 --> 01:12:29,369
have a barrier there. Because
it's like you're trying to

1061
01:12:29,369 --> 01:12:32,579
separate me from my money, which
your money is your power, right?

1062
01:12:32,669 --> 01:12:37,139
So you're trying to separate
with me, once you are able to

1063
01:12:37,139 --> 01:12:40,979
lower that wall down, and that's
the whole theory of this whole

1064
01:12:41,309 --> 01:12:46,889
episode. They use the useful,
useful ADA to lower that barrier

1065
01:12:46,889 --> 01:12:53,279
down. The influencer has that
barrier there. The pitch man has

1066
01:12:53,279 --> 01:12:55,859
that barrier there. The camera
TV commercial has that barrier

1067
01:12:55,859 --> 01:13:01,379
there. Now they had a new tool,
and that's the useful ad online.

1068
01:13:01,919 --> 01:13:07,679
That barrier is not naturally
there. And you you believe them?

1069
01:13:08,309 --> 01:13:12,299
You know when you buy a sandwich
saying, Hmm, that was good. He's

1070
01:13:12,299 --> 01:13:17,639
not getting paid by Popeyes. It
must be really good. You know,

1071
01:13:17,699 --> 01:13:22,439
and then when you fast forward
and look at Obama, what'd he

1072
01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:25,709
say? We've been telling stories.
He gets up there gives you a

1073
01:13:25,709 --> 01:13:31,169
great, wonderful story. You
lower that barrier down. Now we

1074
01:13:31,169 --> 01:13:35,009
can say the pitch. It doesn't
matter about who you know what

1075
01:13:35,009 --> 01:13:37,799
my policies are. It doesn't
matter, helping change how you

1076
01:13:37,799 --> 01:13:38,969
quantify that you can't?

1077
01:13:40,380 --> 01:13:43,020
Well, you know who else is a
good storyteller on today's

1078
01:13:43,410 --> 01:13:47,640
stage? Of course, of course.
Kamala Harris is fantastic

1079
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:48,420
storyteller.

1080
01:13:50,580 --> 01:13:55,560
And you know who else is Mr.
Donald Trump? Oh, he's that's

1081
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:58,590
why he can go for hour and a
half. It's

1082
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:02,460
as an elephant. He doesn't know
how to nudge subtly but yeah, he

1083
01:14:02,460 --> 01:14:06,150
can. That's right. And he's got
your nostalgia make America

1084
01:14:06,150 --> 01:14:09,510
great. Again, literally calling
back to nostalgic times.

1085
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:17,010
Although misinterpreted by many.
Yeah, great storytellers. That's

1086
01:14:17,010 --> 01:14:19,920
yeah, that's, that's what you
need. That's interesting, which

1087
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:25,200
it's interesting about Trump,
because he truly is the first

1088
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:32,940
internet president, Barack Obama
was incapable of the

1089
01:14:32,940 --> 01:14:37,080
interpersonal type of
communication style or dialogue

1090
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:41,520
even that is necessary to make
social media work. Now it was

1091
01:14:41,550 --> 01:14:45,210
there were no examples. It was
early to I don't think he really

1092
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:48,090
no, there was no one who really
understood how that work at the

1093
01:14:48,090 --> 01:14:54,690
time. And the basing on old
metrics. Trump figured I think

1094
01:14:54,690 --> 01:14:58,260
he's already always known this
make a lot of noise. Big noise,

1095
01:14:58,260 --> 01:15:01,800
big, big any No, and he's very
good. Scott Adams, the Dilbert

1096
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:06,690
cartoonist, wrote a book about
persuasion and how Trump was

1097
01:15:06,750 --> 01:15:10,440
going to win. And he predicted
it based on Trump's persuasion

1098
01:15:10,440 --> 01:15:12,900
techniques, which goes right
back to the beginning of this

1099
01:15:12,900 --> 01:15:14,880
program. The Edward Bernays.

1100
01:15:16,289 --> 01:15:22,589
Yes, and for lack of a better
term, Chuck is the useful idiot

1101
01:15:22,619 --> 01:15:26,069
in this situation. The reason
why I say that is not in the how

1102
01:15:26,069 --> 01:15:31,109
that sound. But he's had a pain
on everything. So he doesn't

1103
01:15:31,109 --> 01:15:36,809
appear to be an influencer. It's
natural. When he says something

1104
01:15:37,349 --> 01:15:40,859
is naturally received, because
he has opinion on everything. So

1105
01:15:40,889 --> 01:15:45,479
he's perceived the same way. As
the guy that Popeyes we used to

1106
01:15:45,479 --> 01:15:46,799
say, Oh, this guy, you know,

1107
01:15:48,030 --> 01:15:50,940
just as another blogger, he's
just a Twitter guy with a lot of

1108
01:15:50,940 --> 01:15:51,810
followers. Right? Yeah.

1109
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:54,540
He's not trying to say you suck.
I mean, he's not that's not

1110
01:15:54,540 --> 01:15:58,170
would be his role. He says what
he says and what he feels, that

1111
01:15:58,170 --> 01:16:01,470
will be the perception. That's
Brock. Obama goes to tweet.

1112
01:16:01,500 --> 01:16:02,850
Yeah, it's an agenda base.

1113
01:16:03,480 --> 01:16:07,020
Yes. With with bullet point.
Right. Yeah. So

1114
01:16:07,980 --> 01:16:12,300
I mean, that we're seeing, it's
amazing how we've seen these. Is

1115
01:16:12,300 --> 01:16:15,360
it the dog, the dog wagging the
tail of the tail wagging the

1116
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:15,870
dog?

1117
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:20,220
Well, you made another great
point. It works both ways. It

1118
01:16:20,220 --> 01:16:24,630
benefits both sides, just like
Obama benefited Gandhi retros

1119
01:16:24,660 --> 01:16:25,620
retroactively?

1120
01:16:27,660 --> 01:16:30,870
Well, the question I asked is,
are the advertisers looking back

1121
01:16:30,870 --> 01:16:33,840
and looking at studying Trump
like, how was he so successful?

1122
01:16:36,090 --> 01:16:39,870
Yeah, he doesn't come across as
an influencer, that the

1123
01:16:39,870 --> 01:16:43,020
conversation may have. I don't
know. I don't have more of a

1124
01:16:43,020 --> 01:16:43,980
question. But well, I

1125
01:16:43,980 --> 01:16:48,990
think I think generally accepted
is that it was the beef. It was

1126
01:16:48,990 --> 01:16:53,280
an ongoing beef situation. And
here came the under hurricane

1127
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:58,170
Popeyes of politics. Donald
Trump lumbering along and he

1128
01:16:58,170 --> 01:17:02,280
goes, Hey, you guys suck your
chicken sandwich. No, good. No,

1129
01:17:02,310 --> 01:17:06,270
it's bad. It's sad. And then
that it turned into a media

1130
01:17:06,270 --> 01:17:09,720
frenzy. And it was Donald Trump
24/7 throughout the entire

1131
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:14,430
election cycle. And he was the
Popeye's of that election.

1132
01:17:14,910 --> 01:17:21,180
Sleepy Joe Pocahontas. Low
Energy jab. I mean, he was.

1133
01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:26,070
Well, he had he had the branding
down to that's all part of the,

1134
01:17:26,370 --> 01:17:29,190
of the persuasion game. And
that's, that's the clap back.

1135
01:17:29,190 --> 01:17:31,140
That's a slap down whatever you
want to call it.

1136
01:17:31,170 --> 01:17:35,370
That was the point I'm making
that he lacks himself on to Jeb

1137
01:17:35,370 --> 01:17:39,480
Bush, if Jeb Bush would have
brushed him off and paid him no

1138
01:17:39,480 --> 01:17:44,850
attention. He can't win. Right.
But he made that attack so

1139
01:17:44,850 --> 01:17:48,300
potent, that you have to reply
back. And when you've done that,

1140
01:17:48,300 --> 01:17:52,320
you brought him to your level
and then in they then you don't

1141
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:53,370
have the leverage anymore.

1142
01:17:54,210 --> 01:17:58,170
Yeah, so here's the challenge.
Here's the challenge for

1143
01:17:58,170 --> 01:18:01,230
companies like Twitter. And I
agree, that's obviously that's

1144
01:18:01,230 --> 01:18:04,110
where I mean, we're going to see
almost $2 billion of digital

1145
01:18:04,110 --> 01:18:08,970
advertising for this entire
election, 6.8 billion in total,

1146
01:18:09,510 --> 01:18:13,620
of which just under 3 billion
goes to television, and there's

1147
01:18:13,620 --> 01:18:17,460
a piece to radio and print etc.
But still almost 2 billion for

1148
01:18:17,460 --> 01:18:21,480
for digital. They've got to keep
that in in check. They got to

1149
01:18:21,480 --> 01:18:24,630
keep it in track if they're
using these types of campaigns.

1150
01:18:24,630 --> 01:18:27,300
And, and I cannot thank you
enough for bringing this

1151
01:18:27,300 --> 01:18:30,780
particular one to my attention.
Moreover, because of the

1152
01:18:30,780 --> 01:18:33,600
sensitivity of the topic, which
I'd still like to explore how

1153
01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:38,730
that's working out, they have to
control the messaging. And I

1154
01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:44,340
envision them having a dashboard
with dials, that artificially

1155
01:18:44,340 --> 01:18:48,720
creates what Donald Trump was
able to do by himself amazingly,

1156
01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:52,560
but you dial it up a little bit,
bring some some pro people in

1157
01:18:52,590 --> 01:18:56,310
it, sprinkle in a little bit of
contrast, dial it back a bit,

1158
01:18:56,310 --> 01:18:59,670
it's moving too far, the
algorithms they use and these

1159
01:18:59,670 --> 01:19:03,030
are just levers it's literally
like a like a mixing board. They

1160
01:19:03,030 --> 01:19:06,330
can mix that they can mix in
these levels that you're seeing

1161
01:19:06,330 --> 01:19:10,800
in your feed is very powerful
stuff and very, very hidden and

1162
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:13,020
tricky and kind of not nice.

1163
01:19:14,070 --> 01:19:18,210
But you're from the advertising
world. And I would want to say

1164
01:19:18,210 --> 01:19:26,130
this one thing you can't create
a good salesman no matter what

1165
01:19:26,190 --> 01:19:29,370
you can't create a good sales so
that's the that's the one thing

1166
01:19:29,370 --> 01:19:38,640
is that you can't manufacture so
they are

1167
01:19:38,670 --> 01:19:44,940
in fact it's funny you say that
every company I have run or

1168
01:19:44,940 --> 01:19:51,690
owned the sales team. Not the
same, but we're often like

1169
01:19:51,690 --> 01:19:58,650
Donald Trump. It's the kind of
person and they can these the

1170
01:19:58,650 --> 01:20:01,080
great sales people and sell
almost anything

1171
01:20:03,540 --> 01:20:07,680
is costly, authentic, not
authentic, positive sense of the

1172
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:12,300
word but without any positive or
negative. There's this

1173
01:20:12,330 --> 01:20:17,760
authentic. And that goal just to
close this out. If going back to

1174
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:23,040
the show Mad Men, Donald Draper
was that kind of person. He

1175
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:28,110
would be all out and out all
night whoring drinking asleep in

1176
01:20:28,110 --> 01:20:32,130
his office. And they may go wake
him up. You're saying he shave.

1177
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:33,720
Welcome to the royal give your

1178
01:20:34,290 --> 01:20:41,130
speech page on bam. Yeah, you're
right. Yeah, he was the best

1179
01:20:41,730 --> 01:20:47,220
authentic in his own way.
Absolutely. So is the American

1180
01:20:47,250 --> 01:20:50,430
factory is that the name of the
production company? The Obamas

1181
01:20:50,430 --> 01:20:50,790
have

1182
01:20:51,150 --> 01:20:54,660
noticed the name of their their
first film. Oh, okay. And I

1183
01:20:54,660 --> 01:20:55,800
don't know anything about it.

1184
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:57,720
Is there anything? Is it out
yet?

1185
01:20:58,200 --> 01:21:02,100
Yes, it's out. And it's China's
influence on I

1186
01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:05,370
can't believe I haven't. So why
have I not heard of this? Why am

1187
01:21:05,370 --> 01:21:07,860
I not watching it? What's going
wrong with their marketing?

1188
01:21:10,230 --> 01:21:15,630
I don't know. That's a good
question. I one thing is the

1189
01:21:15,630 --> 01:21:18,330
people that want to talk about
this on the wrong side of the

1190
01:21:18,330 --> 01:21:27,660
argument. I wonder why. Why. I
have a theory why. But I think

1191
01:21:27,660 --> 01:21:31,470
this is for the Joe Biden crowd.
Right. So

1192
01:21:31,500 --> 01:21:33,090
the message is not getting to
me.

1193
01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:36,690
Right. I think this is more for
the Joe Biden crowd. You know,

1194
01:21:36,690 --> 01:21:39,630
Sam, for those people that may
be pro Trump but willing to

1195
01:21:39,630 --> 01:21:43,320
swing and Joe Biden to show and
it cleans up Joe's

1196
01:21:44,190 --> 01:21:51,600
trying to mess Yeah. I can't I
can't believe that, that Obama

1197
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:56,370
is is doing that. I mean, yeah,
well, I guess he'd wants to

1198
01:21:56,370 --> 01:21:59,400
preserve his legacy through Joe.
But geez.

1199
01:22:00,179 --> 01:22:02,399
Well, they probably said, Hey,
man, you got to give us this

1200
01:22:02,399 --> 01:22:08,759
one. They're hurting right now.
I mean, I mean, you brought it

1201
01:22:08,759 --> 01:22:13,859
up. I mean, they can't let Oh,
I'm clipping the clock run

1202
01:22:13,859 --> 01:22:14,519
again, man.

1203
01:22:15,090 --> 01:22:18,240
She's gonna swoop in before you
know it. She'll be all over us.

1204
01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:23,640
mo, mo, this was fantastic. It
reminded me a lot of things that

1205
01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:28,290
I've studied in the past that I
was I have applied as well. It

1206
01:22:28,290 --> 01:22:31,290
was great to bring this back.
And man, you blew my mind about

1207
01:22:31,290 --> 01:22:35,220
the about the chicken
conversation? And what I'd like

1208
01:22:35,220 --> 01:22:40,320
to know is do you think that
this this is now going to become

1209
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:45,390
more acceptable? To discuss
thanks to this? What chicken?

1210
01:22:45,390 --> 01:22:46,110
You're like?

1211
01:22:46,260 --> 01:22:49,440
No, I don't. It was it was never
about that. No, I

1212
01:22:49,440 --> 01:22:50,550
know. But isn't

1213
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:55,590
it what I think is is? This is
why I think, one, I think for

1214
01:22:55,590 --> 01:22:58,620
certain people, this
conversation will never be a

1215
01:22:58,620 --> 01:23:01,890
comfortable conversation with
any stereotype. I think that's

1216
01:23:01,890 --> 01:23:07,380
the same thing you see it with,
not to list out certain ways you

1217
01:23:07,380 --> 01:23:09,600
see, with certain groups, we
don't try to talk about our

1218
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:13,440
power influence. We don't like
to talk about our, you know, our

1219
01:23:13,440 --> 01:23:16,080
intelligence in certain
subjects, you know, it's very

1220
01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:21,120
uncomfortable. So I don't think
you will ever be comfortable. I

1221
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:26,910
think this was a masterpiece of
a nudge, because it broke that

1222
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:30,060
threshold. That's the what,
that's what I wanted to point

1223
01:23:30,060 --> 01:23:33,480
out is the natural reflex to
say, I don't want to talk about

1224
01:23:33,480 --> 01:23:45,540
this. But if so. Ah, such No,
such a powerful wave that you

1225
01:23:45,540 --> 01:23:50,850
get sucked up in it. I think, I
think when Twitter or whoever

1226
01:23:50,850 --> 01:23:53,340
goes back, and they can show it
every other people, they sell

1227
01:23:53,340 --> 01:23:57,930
advertisements who like, look,
we were able to break this taboo

1228
01:23:57,930 --> 01:24:01,410
threshold didn't Well we could
do for your company. I think

1229
01:24:01,410 --> 01:24:04,440
that was the play the play in
place. I agree.

1230
01:24:04,620 --> 01:24:07,740
And I'm very curious now to see
if they're going to try and

1231
01:24:07,740 --> 01:24:11,280
replicate this with other taboo
topics. I can already think of a

1232
01:24:11,280 --> 01:24:16,320
couple which I'll withhold but
and some may already be brewing,

1233
01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:19,290
which I haven't seen yet. And
maybe other people figure this

1234
01:24:19,290 --> 01:24:25,410
out, and start doing it with
their own properties.

1235
01:24:26,010 --> 01:24:28,380
Because I think that's where
airbrush Edward Bernays was able

1236
01:24:28,380 --> 01:24:31,020
to say like, bro, I got limits
smoking cigarettes.

1237
01:24:32,310 --> 01:24:39,570
And that's exactly how he said
it to. Just imagine that. Well,

1238
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:42,420
this has been fantastic mo I
always learned so much chatting

1239
01:24:42,420 --> 01:24:43,920
with you. I love it. It's
fantastic.

1240
01:24:44,759 --> 01:24:51,209
I'm glad you enjoy and I hope
the listeners did too. Yeah. And

1241
01:24:51,659 --> 01:24:53,729
beware of the nudge. It's not
like society

1242
01:24:53,000 --> 01:24:59,480
where of the nudge indeed. A
quick mention that we are now

1243
01:24:59,480 --> 01:25:02,450
running this on To the value for
value system, that means you

1244
01:25:02,450 --> 01:25:06,050
just listened for about an hour
and 25 minutes, did you get any

1245
01:25:06,050 --> 01:25:12,380
value out of it? If you did
translate that into money. You

1246
01:25:12,380 --> 01:25:15,380
could have spent an hour and a
half watching a Netflix movie

1247
01:25:15,380 --> 01:25:20,990
for $5 for 99. You know,
consider donating that to the

1248
01:25:20,990 --> 01:25:24,290
show so that Moe and I can
continue to produce it does take

1249
01:25:24,290 --> 01:25:27,890
effort we're putting value in.
We'd like to get value back and

1250
01:25:27,890 --> 01:25:30,080
we'll be talking more about that
in future episodes, you can

1251
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:36,050
donate to the show at
MoeFactz.com M O E F A C T Z

1252
01:25:36,110 --> 01:25:42,320
.com through Paypal or cash app.
All right, Moe, thank you again.

1253
01:25:44,250 --> 01:25:47,940
As always, it's a pleasure. And
I always say pay attention to

1254
01:25:47,940 --> 01:25:50,130
everything and the truth will
reveal itself.

1255
01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:53,660
And make sure you subscribe to
this podcast and your your

1256
01:25:53,660 --> 01:25:58,220
podcast app. And we always tweet
out new episodes so please let

1257
01:25:58,220 --> 01:26:01,400
everybody know retweet that and
get the message out. We'll talk

1258
01:26:01,400 --> 01:26:04,160
to you next week. Thanks again
most talk to you soon man. All

1259
01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:05,570
right, see you later. All right,
bye bye.