Moe Factz with Adam curry August 26 2019 Episode Five. Oh Moe
you've done it again to me. You brought the brought the music
once again
as Grandmaster Flash, a message.
I think I can still do it. Let me see if I can do it hold on a
sec when we see broken glass everywhere people pissing on the
stairs no that just don't care. I can't take the smell can't
take the noise gotten the money move out. Guess it got no choice
wrapped in the front room roaches in the back. jockeys in
the alley with a baseball bat tried to get away but it
couldn't get bought because a man with a tow truck to test my
car. Okay, there we go. This came out. This came out when I
was a kid. I used to know all of it
is the message. Yeah, it is the message. That's I think that's
appropriate for what we're about to talk to talk about today. As
if people haven't noticed all the all the music is appropriate
to the shows. I'm sure we have some very smart listeners. So
they might have figured it out. Yeah, right. Right. Just for
just for the people that you know, maybe just tuning in that
bill will pick that up. One thing I'd like to clear up from
the last show is I said, auto Sterling was the guy that was
choked out. I knew we got that one wrong. Yes. Ah Is Eric
Garner Gardner, right. All right. So I want to apologize
for that. Just a little fat check. Clean up fat check call.
So many people hit me in the DMS and I'm like Eric Garner, Eric.
Well, hopefully that's not the only thing they took away from
Episode Four. But yeah,
I just wanted to clear that up right up front. So how's
everything else going? Now?
Everything's good in opportunity zone? 33 on the frontier of
Austin, Texas. How about you?
Everything's gone. Great. got an email from last show. Concerning
last show, the clip we played. I forget the gentleman's name.
Terrible. It was the immigration hurting are hurting black people
clip?
Ah, yes. Okay. I don't remember either who that was. But I know
exactly what you're talking about.
So the gentleman from net clear, and I'm going to find his name
because it's important, but he will possibly want to do an
interview. Oh, wonder listeners made the connection. Nice. I
don't want to say the wave and head Ted Hayes. Yes, Ted Hayes,
right? Is the gentleman from the clip, I don't want to say that
person's name for email credit and get the Okay. But you know
who you are. And I much appreciate that. Because that's
what we want from, from this channel is to, you know, bring
good information in so it can be dispersed.
And we'll be talking about this at the end of the show. But the
idea of how these types of podcasts work, he falls under
the value for value system. And we'll talk a bit about at the
end, as I said, but in effects. Everyone is a listener, but more
importantly, everybody becomes a producer. And there's many ways
you can help. And that's a great example when someone has a
knowledge information to contact any other skills that you think
would contribute to the show. You're a producer and you'll be
credited as such as well. So that's exactly what producers do
is find connections and reach out and try and make the program
better.
And we love those subject matter experts like the other gentleman
Macao wrote in about the opportunity's own so I'm loving
getting all this information because it gives you a better
well rounded view on the topics that we discussed.
Yes. And I'm sure we'll come around to many of the topics
that we've already covered.
Yes. So with that said where we left off in the last couple of
shows were the think tanks. We looked at the left leaning think
tanks we looked at last show we looked at the right leaning
Think Tank, Prager University or Praeger you and I found this
interesting clip isn't it's from a movie, but a candidate
described describes or details. I think how a conversation may
go between these two schools of thought that's trying to
persuade black people to think one way or another. And that's
trick baby.
As you liberals who have lifted them up power, Paul, you
conservatives make the mistake. You can't afford to strangle
hope and people without hope. People become dangerous. No are
you liberals have left them in vade our society, you give them
jobs, political job, Oh, you missed the point. Only the smart
ones we move up. That makes it even worse. Oh, we have to move
them up. If we leave a smart one in the ghetto, you might develop
into a leader against us. But if we raise him up into white
society, we neutralize. It feels compelled to try wag like us. He
loses his identity and his racial anger. If he has the he
becomes alien to his brothers. They realize he sold them out
and they grow to hate him. He becomes worthless to them, and
safe for us. No, thank you. In fact, in his love for the
creature comforts, except for his color. He's become one of
us.
Wow, who was in this movie?
And that's the movie of trick baby from 1974. It was one of
the Blaxploitation films. And the reason why I brought that is
I thought that was a great illustration for the two
extremes, the left and the right, right, they're vying for
the mind of the of the black man. I would imagine how this
conversation goes. Now this is not saying the run of the mill,
average, General, left or right person, these are extremes. So I
wanted to bring that to the table to kind of illustrate what
I think how that conversation might go to the listeners, you
have two schools of thought of how to control our persuade the
black community, the quote, unquote, black community. So
what did you take away from that clip? Adam?
Well, what it sounded like to me is, well, first of all,
outrageous just to hear that conversation. But both sides
wanted to make the subjects it was mind control. I mean, either
way was mind control based on human emotions. But the general
concept being if you can show something good and comfortable
and nice over here, that's the direction people will go. And
there's all these ways you can exploit them on their journey.
Right. So that's the kind of thing that I wanted to
illustrate, I think we, I think that was a nice little bow. To
put on the previous conversation we were having of the two
extremes of the think tanks, or the think tanks, then a nice
little one minute clip. And that, of
course, is not abnormal for the think tanks. In this case, it's
about getting black people, nudging them where they want
them to go. This happens, of course, for all groups and races
and religions, etc.
And I'm glad you brought up that word nudging because we're right
back where we left off. So we brought this term up nudging in
a previous show, but we really didn't lay out what it was, I
mean, in detail and how it works. And I saw one of the
greatest nudges of all time. With the Popeyes versus Chick
fil A conversation who has the best sandwich. The reason why I
say that is one for people of my community, a certain
conversation that we don't have in mixed company. So for this to
take place on social media so openly, it made me wonder what
is happening here. And just to give us testament of how taboo
is to have this conversation in public. For one, I feel
uncomfortable right now having this conversation.
Really okay. And I'm not even sure what the conversation is
yet Mo.
The conversation is who has the better Froch? Waving this habit
creeped over into your feed?
No, though, I know about the Fast Food Wars, where there's a
lot going on on Twitter. And I have followed that a bit but
never in this context. And I certainly didn't know that it is
a social taboo amongst black Americans to discuss who has the
better chicken sandwich.
No, just no. Discuss fried chicken in general. It's certain
things that are stereotypical and of course, this is for every
community, of course, that you don't discuss that stereotypical
topic. in mixed company. It's not about who has the best or
not, that's not
just about the whole fried chicken thing and that's fine.
It's a trigger I get it of course,
and the to illustrate that fried chicken in public. You know,
when black people eat chicken for a long time, we didn't eat
it because of the racial stereotypes about us eating
chicken Yeah. Do you think that because of what you do, and you
know, even when I do with the comedy and stuff that we have
made it look different and made it acceptable?
Yeah, I do. I mean, like I said, it's your approach to it, you
know, like you approach it from an authentic organic, genuine,
you know, I know you do that with your comedy, you're putting
good energy out. Just you just kind of, you know, showing
something that's pretty obvious, but you know, it is what it is.
Don't tell me you're actually going to take us back to the
roots of this.
No, I'm not gonna go there. Okay, I'm not gonna go because
that's that will be that's a general conversation. Expected.
Got it. It's amazing that you haven't heard this topic. I am
simply amazed because social media.
Well, now, hold on, hold on. Let me just step back for a second
because I'm maybe I was a little confused. I've seen competing
ads for chicken sandwiches from the fast food. And if I saw that
on television, or read an article about it, but it's on
the radar, but way off because it just, I haven't been thinking
about it for me.
That's not what I'm talking about here. Oh, social media was
a
blade. Oh, boy, a
blaze, like the conversation of who has the best chicken
sandwich? Popeyes versus Chick fil A. And the reason why I
bring this up is this is the perfect example of several
things that's discussed on this show. And even on the knowledge
in the show, one the native add to nudging. And three, how these
social media conversations happen in silos. I just want to
say I'm amazed that you didn't see this trending on your
timeline. And we both agree that you have a gray.
Yes, I do have a yes, I do have a great timeline. That's right.
That is amazing. I am flabbergasted that you haven't
heard it.
But my I don't know if I'm supposed to feel bad or not. But
it's my filters around for other stuff. So I've just been looking
at other things. And by the way, I don't like chicken sandwiches.
I don't think you understand how big this was. Made local news.
Oh my goodness. I need to hand in my credentials.
Popeyes versus Chick fil A.
The chicken sandwich war wages on tonight and the upland team
is putting the Popeyes chicken sandwich to the test. We'll get
to that in just a moment. But if you've missed out on what
everyone's talking about, let's kind of catch you up. This is
the new Popeyes chicken sandwich that's got so many folks talking
it started the debate the chain put it out last week nationwide
and many people were comparing it to the Atlanta born Chick fil
A chicken sandwich that was all well and good until chick fillet
responded with this tweet saying all love for the original
Popeyes of course response and are y'all good. And then we see
when these jump into the fray saying these two fools are
competing for second best sandwich. Of course, Popeye's,
responding again saying you must have ate one of our biscuits
because you're looking thirsty and windy thing that means your
food is as dry as your jokes. This is going on with so many
other companies getting in on it. A 2013 study from Cornell
University found 59% of chain restaurants and 79% of
independent restaurants use social media and that study was
from six years ago. So we're seeing much more we're also
seeing the chains getting sassy online. So this likely won't be
the last time we see some sort of war on social media. Yeah,
okay. Yes, I read about this, but I read it in an advertising
industry magazine. And so and it was more a little broader
context about the advertisers using social media and the
pitfalls and the upside etc. So I have more background
information than of the actual incredible extravaganza of
outrage over which sandwich is the best.
And this is my point for this conversation to happen in the
black community on social media. Shows you the power of the
native ad and of social media. I can't say another word mind
control.
And is is anonymity a part of this
now that we have people putting their face
I can tell knowing you that you are really blown away by this
happening and that's fascinating because of course I missed this
How the hell would I would I know that this is not something
you talk about in mixed company yet on social media is blowing
up.
I am irked. I am amazed ah Oh, I like, like, for lack of better.
I'm flabbergasted that the topic of the conversation being had it
grew to a certain level, as we've discussed before, it's
just a little low, low background. It starts, it starts
trending on social media. Then the local news picks it up. Yep.
So for the fact for this local, this is a local news station. I
believe in Atlanta. I want to say,
well, maybe that's why it's news even though they didn't really
say that.
Right. The other thing is, and it clipped this part of the
clip, they have a taste test. With three black people
taking it to the extreme. Wait a minute, there's only three black
people to test the chicken sandwiches.
Yeah. And they had a guy was a white guy. He went on
camera, and they called Donald Trump racist. This is great.
But did you hear the language of the clip? I'm taken aback. I'll
always use them amazed. I had people who were saying friends
DM him like, do you see this? Do you see this conversation going
on? I mean, more of the what you want to call you know, the, the,
you know, the woke crowd, that
word? Know that we know exactly what you mean. That's good.
Do you see the conversation is gone on all social media right
now. And I was so pissed. For the simple fact. There's certain
things and I'm sure this was every culture that you don't
have this conversation in mixed company.
Do you mind? Explore that for a second? Go ahead. You were
pissed? What was your actual feeling? What I mean, you were
pissed? Because it was happening because it felt like a taboo was
broken. And why here? Why now? What were you feeling? What was
your personal feeling about it?
My personal feeling is this. There are certain cultural code
and let's be clear, I don't even feel comfortable having this
conversation here now.
Yeah, okay, that that explains so much right there. I gotcha.
Because you're comfortable with pretty much everything.
Right? But there because what it does, it feeds the stereotype.
And the clip we played before is people were black people
wouldn't even cannibal eating chicken in public. Right. Um,
that was my EPS from the show. That's his television show.
That's racist. So for this conversation too slow on social
media. And then when you go back and listen to the these are the
public accounts for Popeyes Chick fil A, and Wendy's timeout
you mad? You see these fools. It's like, who was typing this
for these companies?
That's what I always think, like, Wow, man, whose job is
that to talk like this? And do they have some kind of approval
chain of command? I always wonder about that.
Right. So not to belabor the point. But the reason why I'm
bringing this up is if you can have people have a taboo
conversation, or what is perceived as a taboo
conversation, that shows you the level of expertise they have in
this in this advertising and manipulation through social
media. But to go forward, we have to go back and we have to
look at someone like air Edward Bernays,
the father of propaganda. Yes,
he the father of propaganda, Tom Kellner, let's see a little
background on him. Mr. Tom Kellner is the author of public
relations and digital and digital age. He's at from the
University of Florida College of journalism and communications.
He's in his clip he speaks on Edward Bernays.
It's funny because a lot of the cases in public relations that
really illustrate some of the key principles are ones that the
field gets criticized for Edward Bernays is a great example. I've
got the classic case in there on the torches of freedom, where he
basically used techniques of Social Psychology of Persuasion
and develop new techniques to persuade women to smoke and on
face value, you know, obviously, that's wrong, you know, why
would we want anyone to smoke, let alone women in the 1920s.
However, if you go down a layer, it's really interesting because
it opens up for First of all, what are the what are the
practices that are at work? there. And even if you think
about the most evil propaganda in the world, we need to be able
to understand those processes so that we can identify them.
That's an important societal function that's important and
critical thinking.
Yeah, this is good. This is the foundation of advertising. And
it's very important for people don't understand these, this
history.
And the reason why I use this clip is he brought up the
torches of freedom. Have you heard of that atom?
I've heard? I've heard it. Yes. I could not tell you what it
means.
Okay, so background on the torches of freedom. And you're
going to see some parallels here. In the 1920s. It was taboo
for women to smoke. Especially in public.
Oh, yes. I remember. Is this the parade? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
All right.
Now, we see we're talking taboos here. Edward Bernays to women
gave them cigarettes, specifically lucky strikes.
That's what we work for. And gave them to a group of
feminists and a parade and show them marching down the street,
smoking the cigarettes and the parade. Was this
what the suffered the suffragette movement was co
opted for this, I think,
Ah, I think wasn't that more power vision or no,
no, no. Well, it was the right for women to vote.
Now saying what and I thought they were more involved in the
prohibition but I'm maybe maybe I'm may be off.
All right, keep going. I'll I'll do a quick lookup, just.
So the point is to show you is with public relations, as they
call it. A better term for that is propaganda. And they use the
term propaganda, they stop using the term propaganda because of
the loaded weight that that word had and switched over to public
relations. So one thing I want people to take away from is
anytime you see that word public relations, substitute that for
propagandists, right, because that's the proper term for it.
But Edward Bernays, he's a genius. Think he was Sigmund
Freud's nephew. Correct. So he understood psychology very well.
And he wrote many books, and he was the industry like kureta a
public relations out I would say, I would say without being a
stretch, he's also also the person that said bacon and eggs.
Were a great American breakfast, healthy breakfast, because he
got doctors to convenient out. So this had happened. Pork
farmers had a high quantity of low quality meat called Bacon
that they needed to sell. So he convinced doctors to come out
and say, a great hearty American breakfast is bacon and eggs. And
that allowed him to sell this meat that was really unwanted.
And now let's the
American way MO That is the American way. I'm just
That's great. Wrong. Yeah, right, wrong. And this leads us
into the second clip of what is okay and what is not. Okay.
But the other important part is let's let's hash out the ethical
part is does that mean that you know, organizations should never
try to persuade somebody to buy a product? And again, I think
it's, we can say yes, it's bad to promote cigarettes. But I
think we need to say, Well, wait a minute, why, you know, what
was Bearnaise actually doing wrong? If that had been a
socially responsible product or something that really helps
society? And he didn't do a lot of that too. You know, how can
we separate out you know, what makes one case unethical? From
what another case? What makes another case ethical?
Yeah, that's a good question. So, this is we're gonna start
seeing seeing a theme here moving forward of ethics. Is it
ethical for people to be nudged? So we have Mr. Richard Taylor.
And Mr. Richard Thaler is from the University of Chicago,
Graduate School of Business. Now he's a professor there. And he
wrote a book nudge improving decisions about health, wealth
and happiness. And in the next clip, we won't have Mr. Taylor,
do an overview of what a nudge is.
Nudge is any small feature in the environment that attracts
our attention, and influences the behavior that we make. The
nudging is done by what we call a choice architect, which is a
fancy term for anyone who influences the choices that you
make. Take the example of the cafeteria downstairs. Somebody
had to decide when Where to put the salad bar where to put the
burgers, where to put the ice cream, where to put the coffee.
That person is a choice architect because the
arrangement of the food influences the choices that we
make.
Absolutely supermarkets, everything.
All right, we see this in caps, the eye level products, compared
to the ones on the bottom. So we see this in stores in a physical
environment. But then we have to ask ourselves, what about in the
cyber environment? Correct? Choice architects for what we
see, oh, the banners, Western our feeds, what they determined
to be most important on the rankings. We see this all the
time. So I'm laying out a thing here of now we see how
propaganda works, they can take things that are taboo, and make
them more than acceptable, even though they may not be healthy
or ethical. And we got to ask ourselves, who are these choice
architects? And what and how do we hold them responsible for
their actions? So let's listen to the clip number two, some
people worry
that the idea of choice architects and nudging is
somehow leading to Big Brother. And that's not the way we think
about it. One of the points we stress in the book is that there
has to be some choice architecture. So the person who
designs that cafeteria downstairs has to put the food
somewhere, the salad has to be in front of the burgers or
behind the burgers, given that you have to arrange the food in
some order, we argue, why not have the choice architect,
arrange the food in such a way that people will be happier and
healthier? And maybe live a little?
Yes, well, the only way to do that is to test and see what
works better, and then implement the results.
So this is my thesis on going back on the Popeyes versus Chick
fil A debate. I think these social media companies
understand as don't work anymore. Would you agree? Would
you agree that
not only would I agree, I think Jack Dorsey is a very smart guy.
And he's probably figured this out.
Correct. So with that understanding, can you explain
to us and you're saying for the listeners, how do social media
companies make their money? Because you don't pay to be on
the to be on there? So how exactly do they make their
money? Well, they
have a lot of different revenue streams. Initially, just display
advertising was thought to work well. And too, so just when you
see an ad for something, Instagram is probably even a
better example where you see it pop up. That's very clear.
Twitter is much less clear is how it works. But the big part
of the revenue is how can we exploit these people based upon
the data that they are leaving behind with their behavioral
footprint?
So would you say, creating an argument about a product versus
one product A versus product B would kill two birds with one
stone?
I think it kills a couple of birds. First of all, if I'm
Twitter, and I know what my audience really likes better,
I'm going to talk to those guys. And I'll probably talk to the
other guys and give him the same information. Say you should be
stepping up your game here because look, it looks like
these guys are beating the pants off here.
And what it seemed like to me was Popeyes was trolling Chick
fil A, I mean, Chick fil A is number one and fast food period.
This is exactly that article that I was reading was and they
didn't even answer conclusively. Is this the strategy was the
question is the strategy of one over the other to call one out
to bring more attention to them. It's all up I'll see if I can
put it in some show notes that fascinating article. So yeah,
absolutely. This was strategy.
So let me give you a little background from how I've seen
this work in the music industry, which is the thing and rap
called beef. And what B does is you have one the lesser MC or
rapper called the other out, calls out the bigger rapper.
Yep. And they keep doing it. You see it in boxing as well. But
you're saying for this example we see and let's just take a rap
for instance, to be the lesser of the two and garner you have
to latch yourself on with the with the the top rapper and you
do that by what they call beef. And the perfect example of this
you know saying was So a guy named 50 cents. Maybe you heard
of him? Yeah. What he when he was first coming up, there was a
guy named John Rue, which a lot of people may not have heard of.
He was
the top fire festival.
Right That guy? Well, before that he was he was one of the
top representatives and the rat industry chair. And what 50 cent
did was create a song about Ja Rule. That was so potent. It
really it demanded a response. Right, exactly. And what that
did was put 50 cents, the lesser rapper on the level of gyro, the
number one selling, you're saying hitmaking rapper at the
time.
It's a well known tactic in marketplaces. Right?
So just go to show you're saying, oh, and in layman's
terms, how this works. So I think what happens is with the
help of Twitter, Popeyes, the lower of the two companies has a
new product. Yep. And they came at the benchmark product. And
for people too, it's a reflex thing. That's like saying, Ah,
you know, you know, fours are better than Chevy, you're gonna
get a 50% response. pushing back against that, which creates the
momentum that you need. If I'm Chevrolet, you know, saying I'll
have have my company say the new, the new Chevy truck kicks
on 50s as right.
Well, and this brings up an interesting point. In certainly
television adverse advertising, we used to see a lot more of
product A versus product B. And they're very tight rules. If you
say anything that is not 100% True, or which is subjective,
but you're presenting as facts, you can get in a lot of trouble
as an advertiser, social media, and I'm going to use the yet
word in this case does not yet have these restrictions. Because
we're talking about the end, it's an added bonus, is that
once you start the the beef so to speak, you can kind of step
back and your fans step in and take over and they can be
completely subjective, objective ly, whatever, say, Well, yeah,
you know, your chicken tastes like poop. And like, you can't
say that on television. But when you have enough people, and I
think this is where you're going, when the algos kick in,
you can really make a difference. And probably change
people's minds or at least bring something to their attention
they had not thought of previously.
So there's a conversation out there saying, Well, why did they
just get the influencers? To promote the sandwich?
I think expensive is too expensive.
Not only that, I think now, and I'm having a conversation with
another good friend of mine, a very smart guy named mg. I think
the kids my daughter's age, she's 15 going on 16 They look
at influencers now. And the same way my generation looked at
commercials not to be trusted.
Excellent point, we've, we've crossed the Rubicon, we've
jumped the shark with the influencers.
Right? So once that happens, that makes them invalid or
ineffective. So now you can't use an influencer, you can't
give the top influencers, say hey, promote my product X and
make it boom, because the kids are like my, you're getting a
check for that flat tummy tea or, or whatever it is. You're
saying you're pedaling. Yeah. So that's why it doesn't work. So
as you laid out, the company can't say, my thing is better
than their thing, because of what you're saying, libel
reasons and legal reasons, correct?
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Very specific. It's probably FTC
regulations. And there's a lot of lot of stuff you just can't
do. And and I don't think these rules have adopted, although
there was one change made that you have to disclose if you're
being paid for something as an influencer. But that disclosure
is, you know, almost like the, the fine print that you see
underneath the financing for your, you know, the car TV ad,
though, you know, it's minimal, but you do have to disclose that
now. But that's about that's all all this really changed and may
blow my mind because I hadn't really considered this
particular example. But that is a very interesting business
model they're employing there.
So this is how I think going back to my theory, if I'm
Popeyes. I have my people. Scrolling through searching
through for who had the bunnies video about our product No, it's
a useful idiot Of course. And then I go on say Twitter push
the button on this guy yank him trend. Yep. It's authentic cuz
this guy's a useful idiot he doesn't know he's saying he's in
on the on the work
even better. Narcissism kicks in and you're flying high when you
start to get a lot of traction on social media as just a guy
with a video.
And as we've seen with social media culture, and once one
person gets goes viral, it's like a it's literally like a
virus. Everybody after that goes buys the product. Makes a video
about it so they could possibly go viral Sue
Bernays, is Bernays is rolling over in his grave right now.
This pick you picking that one I'm putting down here? Okay, I
saw I saw this. When I saw it, I didn't know what I was really
seeing. So I started have to dig. But I like I said, when I
get this itch on something. And as you know, the show was gonna
go somewhere else we had talked about before, just on topic
wise. But this thing came and just not the other thing. Not,
it didn't knock it out. But it puts it in perspective, we're
gonna get there. But let's go to native advertising definition.
So what is a native ad? What makes an ad native again, native
advertising is a form of paid media, where the ad experience
follows the form and function of the user experience in which it
is placed. In other words, if you are on a blog, then the
advertisements will look like some of the other blog content
now it'll say sponsored, right? Or if you're in Facebook, you
know, how many of you guys are in Facebook? Now you see these
infeed ads? Right? You see the sponsored posts, the great CTR
declined a great click through rate declined, click through
rates have been on a dramatic downtrend. Really, since the
very first banner ad impression was recorded. The very first
time there was a banner ad on a website, people clicked on it
the next day, less people clicked on it, when I mean, it's
that's just that that's how it always goes. And then it goes on
a steady decline and advertisers and and media companies have to
innovate and figure out new ways to get people's attention.
Because again, banner blindness is a very real thing.
Yeah, banner blindness.
Have you heard that term before?
Yes, because I was a part of the industry that created it and
oversaw its steady decline. There's one other economic
reason this happens. Why this type of advertising, typically,
the way it's always been thought of, is you have 24 hours in a
day. And you can have X amount of, of advertisements per slot,
or per pod, as they call it. And you can have X amount of pods
per hour. And it's a very delicate balance between what
people will accept and sit through, or will they switch
away and but the thing is, it's time based. So the Superbowl can
only have is probably 30 minutes of commercials over the course
of the whole game is probably more, I'm just picking a number
30 minutes of commercials, a number of full minute
commercials, 32nd commercials, some that has that are a story.
So we'll have four in a row. But if you want to get in there now
you're in an actual supply and demand marketplace with the
Internet. How many minutes do you want? It's infinite. So
there is it's very hard to create an artificial scarcity of
your advertising inventory when you have unlimited inventory. So
it demands this is what I found out after running a podcast
network that and I always say you cannot monetize the network.
We had a very simple version of a Bearnaise strategy, although
much more transparent. And that's how we initially made
money. But the basic inventory model was flawed from the
outset. And it demands something else to happen if these
companies are going to stay in business.
So I want to bring up something here. So we spoke about
blindness. My generation had a blindness to television
commercials. Correct. In the first generation of Internet
users develop banner blindness. I think what's happening now is
the generation after the millennial has influenced
influencer about by a blindness Yep.
I went I would say that's I would say that's probably
correct.
And that's why we're going back to Popeyes versus Chick fil A.
We need the useful at it. You know,
of which Twitter is built on,
right? Somebody's gonna say something funny about anything
on Twitter if you do enough searching, and that's certainly
a retweet
right there.
So what happened is, if I have a product, I'll push it out to the
masses, you know, find a useful ad it, put the Twitter machine
behind it. Half the people are gonna think it's funny, they're
gonna share other half the people are gonna think, man, I'm
funnier than that guy, I go buy the product. And then I make my
own video. And then this is self feeding machine. This is very,
I'm sorry, go ahead. And then the opposition is going to push
back with equal force or more force field on the fire. And
this is what we saw, um, I saw this thing pick up. And you
know, just for complete clarity. Two weeks ago, I saw my daughter
come in with a Popeyes bag. She didn't eat Popeyes chicken. And
you know, and, oh, you can't had this two weeks ago. Right? It
was training or her conversation, you were saying
the teen age or conversate trivial conversation, it picked
up enough steam. And then it now is made it's all way too late
night news. So that just goes to show you how this machine works.
But let's go into the second clip for native advertising.
So that so either you want to stick out like a sore thumb, or
you want to blend in but you don't want to blend in to where
you just look like another boring banner ad, you want to
blend in and look like content. And native advertising is the
ultimate reflection of that because you're not just blending
in looking like content, you're blending in becoming content.
Okay. And like I said, nobody wants this. Nobody wants to turn
Pinterest into this. And this is what you have to do. If you
really want to get click through rates back up, you got to
surround the content with ugly obnoxious ads. Nobody wants
that. So we talked about this morning native advertising is
the thing that is coming on board that is going to change
this and make it a lot easier. Gave the stats this morning, but
it's really good to reiterate. Consumers look at native ads 52%
More than traditional banner ads 52% More than traditional banner
ads. These were eye tracking studies that were done. That's
impressive. But what's more impressive is that consumers
look at native ads, more than editorial content, the native
advertisements on these websites that have started running native
advertisements get looked at more than the actual editorial
content. And the reason is, is that it's marketers producing
the headlines. I'd like
to add here that the New York Times opened a native
advertising division several years ago, I'm gonna think at
least five years ago, and it is a thriving business. And I'm not
I don't know if it may even be so that they're advertorial as
we'll call her the native ads are consumed more than than
their traditional news. They disclaim it, but it's so small.
Again, it's the fine print just keeping within the realms of
what's legal. And one other thing to the equation is where's
banner ads would deliver a report that said, Well, this
banner ad loaded on this computer screen, it could have
been below the fold, it would be below the screen. So he didn't
see it. It might have been obfuscated by something else.
But that's the best metric we have. It's very poor
information. When it and these are established terms.
Engagement is a big term for advertising, measurement for
statistical analysis of how your campaign is doing. And Twitter
will deliver back to Popeyes. Here's how many people retweeted
here's how many people sent it, added a friend in their retweet
tag somebody, here's people who made a video. Here's people who
wrote a joke. Here's other people who are trending. It is a
beautiful setup for this type of campaign.
Yeah, so this leads me to ask the question Where Where did
nothing come from? The term if saw, we saw that a government
agency was set up for this. We spoke about it before. I think
it was the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs if I'm
not mistaking the nudge division, the nurse division,
but that was broken up. So we saw this in politics, I think
even before we thought roll it out into the public realm, or it
said the private industry realm and that's why I'm headed With
this, this idea. We saw this. Oh, Barack Obama was called the
first internet president. I want to say our social media
president is that is that fair assessment.
That was the setup to hit just in the last part before the
election. What I remember is the extreme disappointment with the
relaunch of whitehouse.gov. Everybody went, alright, this is
the internet president, you know, where's my White House
blog? You know, we're thinking this was going to be complete
democracy was going to change.
But I will say he was the first one to really have social media
accounts, right. Absolutely.
Absolutely. Yep. So at POTUS was was crud that account was
created for Barack Obama.
Right. I think the guys behind his team understood this
mentality of tying himself to brands. Now we're about to come
full circle here. But to the brands that had to have we're
not new brand. It was nostalgia. It was people like Mahatma
Gandhi, MLK, Cesar Chavez, anybody that you could relate to
whatever gender you were trying to push. Cesar Chavez would be
for immigration. MLK, Mahatma Gandhi would be for social
justice issues.
it right down there was hope and change. It was all part of the
same thing.
Right? And even in the clip, that's why I put the clip from
trick baby. If you listen to what he said, you said you can't
choke hoping to people. Good one. Right. So we're saying
these people understand we put this guy and it's not exclusive
to the black community. This is all people. It's all about what
we tools we need to nudge who we need to nudge. So one of my
favorite shows is Mad Men. I don't know if you've seen it
tonight show about advertising in the 1960s and 70s. If you if
the listeners haven't heard this show, and if you haven't seen
the show, Adam, excellent show. Great writing. And it shows you
the you know behind the curtains of advertising.
It's a classic. It's it is indeed that good.
And this clip, this is Donald Draper speaking on nostalgia.
And Teddy told me the most important idea in advertising is
new creates an itch. You simply put your product in there as a
kind of calamine lotion. But he also talks about a deeper bond
with the product. Nostalgia It's delicate, the potent. Teddy told
me that in Greek, nostalgia literally means the pain from an
old wound. It's a twinge in your heart. far more powerful than
memory alone.
Nice one. So nostalgie. And the key point I want to take away
from that clip is it's more powerful than memory alone. So
it's not about how you remember something. It's about how you
felt about that. That leads me into Barack Obama using these
images of people of the past Martin Luther King, Mahatma
Gandhi, and she was Cesar Chavez. Let's listen to Brock
Obama deeply influenced by Mahatma Gandhi.
Obama himself is deeply influenced by both Martin Luther
King and Gandhi. And when in India, he will be paying homage
to the father of the nation at large caught.
I might not be standing before you today as President of the
United States. Had it not been for Gandhi in the message he
shared and inspired with America. And
it was this admiration that saw a special moment during Prime
Minister Modi's us was it as Obama personally escorted Modi
to the Martin Luther King Memorial. And now the Indian
prime minister could reciprocate when the President pays homage
at Raj cot.
So what we see here is Brock Obama, and we're not picking on
Obama. What we're doing is is showing a public figure aligning
himself with another public figure that supposedly had a
message or a perception about him about being peaceful,
nonviolent resistance, so Social justice issue. So what I'm going
here show is if you go and post a tweet with Mahatma Gandhi, on
your tweet is going to be perceived a certain way correct
or not? Yes. So what Obama did was align himself to these
images the same way. And it creates a certain image about
yourself the same way Popeyes did with aligning themselves,
you know, with, with images, you know, with propaganda or public
relations they were trying to push. Let's listen to Barack
Obama to
in 2009. One question by students, President Obama had
said that his ideal dinner guest would have been Mahatma Gandhi,
a person from whom he is hugely inspired. Even during his India
visit, Obama spoke of the influence of Gandhi on his life.
So when the American president comes to India, he has made sure
that his itinerary includes paying homage here at the
Rajghat
yeah, great campaign.
Right. So he aligned himself and Barack Obama is a very, very
intelligent, knowledgeable person. He aligned himself with
Mahatma Gandhi, which incident and parallel launch yourself
with Martin Luther King Jr. But there's one problem. And this
goes back to Donald Draper's point. It's not about your
memory. It's about the field, that twinge in your heart that
these images and these figures iconic figures bring up. But
let's go and look at my was Mahatma Gandhi a racist.
Even after his death, he continues to inspire civil
rights movements across the world. But it was Gandhi's early
writings in South Africa that have cast a shadow on his
legacy. During his speech in Mumbai in 1896, he spoke of the
savage half heathen natives who spend their lives in indolence
and nakedness. He used the derogatory slur for blacks in
South Africa Kaffir liberally in his writings, some accused
Gandhi of believing in the superiority of the Aryan race,
thinking that blacks were inferior to whites and Indians.
In fact, one of the first legal battles done for twins South
Africa, was to demand a separate entrance for Indians and post
offices, so they were not classed as blacks. So why do
many see Gandhi as an icon of justice? Critics of Gandhi say
that his writings were a mistake in South Africa. contrast with
what he wrote in his autobiography later on in life,
he effectively tidied up some of his earlier views. But others
counter this portrayal of Gandhi. They say that this
prejudice was born on for Colonial context, and reinforced
by the fact that at this stage, he had had little contact with
Africans. And after serving as a volunteer to engines and news
during the Boer War in South Africa, he realized the
brutality of White's against blacks and some of his views
changed.
So hopefully we see what's happening here. It's not about
what is true or not. It's all about the image Gandhi. It's
about Ms. Gandhi. And then as a political figure, you align
yourself with that image, the image and establish or overrides
what is factually true. Once you align yourself to that, you get
the machine going behind what the narrative is. And there you
have it.
Yeah, and you know, I was going to say, as an aside that Twitter
is such a great example of this. But this is also kind of what
you're seeing with the so called television news networks. They
know one thing that the money that these candidates raise is
coming to them that they don't know exactly how it's going to
be divvied up. And they don't know because there is a spread
over digital now. They, they are already acting like a beef
network continuously I might add, to attract the people they
want, who will supplement that with with the television
equivalent of display of banners, commercials, but who
knows what else they I'm sure they have all kinds of cool
native advertising deals that you can set up with them and
craft and create and under the guise of hey, it's it's a it's
official word. Here's a news network which we all know it's
not.
And the point I wanted to highlight in this is it's not
that Obama didn't know about Gandhi's past. He had he had to
no this is this is not like a stuff that was just no secret
now, right? This is no secret. Even I'm president of South
Africa, Nelson Mandela knew about this and when he was
alive, and you know, he kind of said we got to look past that he
was a victim. I mean, a product of his times that was that was
excuses like kind of Pooh poohing it. What I'm saying is
somebody in that room And this is just what I allege, says you
know what? His image is greater than what is fact? Yep, that's
what they said. And then how it also works to go back into what
we talked about with Chick fil A Popeyes when somebody comes out
says, but Gandhi was racist. What's the natural reflex? Are
you crazy? You know, what do you mean?
It goes it goes both ways. You're right. Yeah. Benefit for
everybody. Yeah. Yeah.
You know, and then it makes you bigger. And for the people not
in the know, they're like, No, Gandhi MLK, you know, saying
that's the association. Yeah. How can he be racist? You know,
Gandhi and Nelson Mandela. So how could he be racist? And what
it does is what we always talked about before, is the act the
politics, they need a good fight. That's what we were
talking about before with Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, you need
to raise his beef. They need to beef beef sales. No one nobody
wants to see a lopsided contest. It's not good. You cut the
football game off at halftime if there's a blowout.
It's exactly right. Yeah,
this is terrible. Um, but they create these beeps.
And let me just say, the classic beef is the so called pole. This
is the classic mainstream trick of the beef. Oh, look how close
they are.
Remember, remember the conversation we had about Kamala
Harris? And I'll tell you it got me because the post debate polls
said she's climbing in the polls got a jump. She got a bomb, a
bomb. That was what that was. That was the turn. I'm like
what? Like, Oh, hold on. Oh, she's climbing. I got nervous.
And notice they're not talking about the polls now because
she's under 10%. That's right. It's bad. It's bad for business
that we see. Just for the sports fans out there. That's why they
had to get rid of the Golden State Warriors. That's why they
hate really hate dynasties and sports. They need what is called
parity. And this new form of advertising, I believe, creates
parity, not only in the political sector, but also the
public sector because what the social media companies will do
is back the underdog is good to back the underdog. I'm sure.
This is just Just what I think. I have no proof of it. I'm sure
Twitter probably gave Popeyes a better rate than they were to
Chick fil A because guess what? Now Chipotle has to step their
advertising up? Yep. Before it's Chick fil A was the big boss
applesauce of the industry. And like we don't have to advertise.
We only open six days a week, what are you talking about? But
when you create the competitor,
yeah, then you're in you're in the game.
You have to be now they have to up their buys. You know, we
used to do a version of this. I worked at while many radio
stations but the most famous one was Z 100 in New York. And they
came in, they weren't even in New York, they were New Jersey
at the top of the hour, they would say that broadcasting live
across New York majority. It's a really softly but they went from
worst to first. And it was it was in a way a social media
context where there was a way the underdog were kicking those
acids over there, those guys in the fancy towers or wherever.
And then we add bumper stickers, and honk your horn for z 100.
And you know that you activated there's a word we'd like to use
you activated your listeners to go and promote your station and
Z 100 has been well, they're not no longer number one just for
changing marketplace, but they were number one for decades.
And we've seen this in the faux conspiracy community. Unique
they use the elite as the competition to generate you
know, the listener base, you know, all this this way they
Hey, they don't really give you an answer to who they is. But
this is how it works. So just another example of how Obama and
the reason why I'm using Obama is because he everyone, everyone
understands this example. It's great. He was the first social
media brand to brand Obama, the brand Obama Yeah, first social
media president and this is him on Cesar Chavez.
And so today we celebrate Cesar Chavez. Cesar would be the first
to say that this is not a monument to one man In. The
movement he helped to lead was sustained by a generation of
organizers who stood up and spoke out and urged others to do
the same, including the Great Dolores Huerta, who is here
today
drew strength from Americans of every race and every background
who marched and boycotted together on behalf of La Causa.
And it was always inspired by the farmworkers themselves, some
of whom are with us. This place belongs to you too. But the
truth is we would not be here if it weren't for season.
You know, I really miss him. I used to love cutting up his his
sound bites and stuff. It was great order. Fantastic. Great,
great
pitch me that yes. Right. So this man Ah, so see she Cesar
Chavez. Do you have any background or anything? Or what
what what is the use to push what was the word frontman for
for the workers for organized labor to bust up evil bosses?
And what is the modern day use for Cesar Chavez?
The name of the road in here in Austin? He looks good on T
shirts. Now. I guess he would be a be considered the resistance,
the resistance and he's used as the face for illegal
immigration. Correct? Yes. Hmm. Interesting. Funny how that
works. Mo. Funny how that works. Click 15
We maintain every culture is different. It's always been
different. This is why every culture and farmworkers whenever
organized before, as long as we have a poor country bordering
California, is gonna be ready for the wind strikes. Strikes
are one, normally by the unions. With an employer, this is a case
right now one of the strikes that we have with the with the
beaut gas and oil company where we've closed them down, that
have been unable to get strikebreakers or have gotten
very few. And then all of a sudden yesterday morning. They
brought into her 20 wetbacks. They started the illegals from
Mexico.
I don't know much I've only been in Texas for nine years. But I
guarantee you using the term wetbacks is not a good idea.
But why would you use him for the face of illegal immigration,
he was clearly against illegal immigration. He says if you
border loans you border on a poor country like Mexico. It's
gonna be impossible for union workers to have, you know, form
unions because you basically have these union busters. And he
used them to call them a did not derogatory name, and also use
the term illegals. So how is it? Once again, Obama was a smart
person, his team is full of smart people, those people in
that crowd cheering for him. Had to know where Cesar Chavez if
you if you're about the cause, well, this is he said the law
calls is what he called it right? Which is,
yep. Well, it's deeply rooted in nostalgia feeling muscle memory,
training, imagery, memes, all these things play into it. And
you know, Chavez specifically has been used throughout the
years in so many different movements. That, I guess with
poor education, people just don't think about it. And they
glom on to the feeling of okay, I feel good about this guy
following this, this image.
But there has to be a calculation there. I mean, when
you're doing vetting of power for candidates, when you're
doing vetting for memes, there has to be a pro and a con on it,
you know, or opposition to say, well, that could be used this
way. Don't use that term, because that could be perceived
this way. I'm just interested about what in that conversation
in that room. Somebody had to know who Gandhi really was, who
Cesar Chavez really was, and for them to continue and go with it.
Well,
you know, yes, again, it comes back to something we talked
about initially, it's testing and it's not that hard to do. I
mean, it is done every single day. You can see it on YouTube,
you know, college campus, reform, whatever it's called,
where they ask people questions, and they usually have a bogus
question, or something that's obviously dumb, and they all
fall for it. That's just who human beings are. We're shallow
there and it of overtime, something's been such as image
Cesar Chavez has been moved into resistance leader, you know
striving for freedom, these kinds of feelings. Once you
identify, it's there, however it got there, then you can use it
starting that I think is much harder now, but I don't think
today, you could use image Obama for a candidate, maybe in 40
years from now, it could be used again.
I have a different take on that. And you know, I may be wrong,
but I think they knew their pitch man was so good that the
people will want to believe what he was saying. Even if the facts
came up, even even it because the facts always come up in the
social media. Sorry, sir. Circle, how somebody's always
gonna have a link or reply saying, hey, what about this?
Right, you know, you know, saying
more, more so today, more so today. This when Obama came into
office 2008 Twitter had really only been around for a year or
two, Ashton Kutcher was the first million follower person it
was very immature at the time. I feel that and the algos also
weren't quite as sophisticated, if at all.
That's a fair point.
So it's it's it's become easier in some regards today and
harder. I think the way I look at it is I think Obama was the
influencer in chief agreed. Totally agree. You're running,
you're running. You're running on your, your, your brand, what
you're running on literally hope and change, not economics, jobs,
you know, any of the traditional things. And man, we were ready
for it. That's another thing. We were ready for that?
And then he could clean up and say, Nah, God, he's cool, man,
when you talk about, you know, I mean, yeah, Nah, man. Nah. So
what I'm just going to say is, I think this came before what
we're seeing now, in the private sector, of what we're seeing
with the Popeyes versus Chick fil A, they understand that we
can have people with a have conversation with taboo, taboo
topics, and people's need to be part of the conversation to be
part of following something is so strong. They all go over
that. That point? Well, let
me stop you right there. Millions of black Americans
looked over the point that Barack Obama was not an African
American. And took it and took it. And as you've explained
previously, second term will do stuff for us took it freely
agreed with it.
Right. And then what well, he was backed by his wife.
Image Image. Yes, exactly. Current Association. exactly
know the way Oprah has Steadman, you know, image?
Yes, it's all about association. So it's funny that you bring
them up. And we're gonna get into this. The final clip.
American factories, Obama's,
you guys could do whatever you want. Why did you decide to do
what you're doing
one way of looking at what we've both been doing for the last 20
years, maybe most of our careers once we left law, it was to tell
stories. If you want to be in relationships with people and
connect with them and work together with them. You have
to know their story. You have to know them.
Yeah, this is the big $65 million Netflix deal.
But did you catch them? I mean, what did you take away from that
clip? I don't want to ruin it.
They're going to tell stories. And it sounded to me like they
were going to tell stories about people whose stories they
understood, which to me would mean black Americans, and that's
who they're going to be targeting.
One before I tell you what, what you missed. It's funny that he
his first major project on the Netflix deal that you referenced
the $65 million deal was talking about how the Chinese industry
practices as affecting a middle America, which That in itself is
just
really well I didn't know that seeing as he was such a part of
shipping everything over to China. Interesting. He's kind of
going against the grain now.
That and then if you say who will make a movie about me Rural
America being gutted. It wouldn't be Obama. No, because
that might be his legacy. That will be his legacy. And you had
eight years and you didn't do anything. And really, Trump is
the one that is been anti China, if you want to say that. I mean,
that's not really a fair assessment what he is, but he'd
been pro America and putting strong
books at trumpets. Trump has been anti China vocally with the
same message since the late 80s.
Yes, I agree with that. So that first that was one thing that
caught me on the surface of wow, you making a movie about this?
Oh, shoot
mechanic? Can I listen to the clip? Again, before you reveal
it? I want to see if I catch it this time. Okay. You guys could
do whatever you want. Why did you decide to do what you're
doing
one way of looking at what we've both been doing for the last 20
years, maybe most of our career viewers
once we left law, it
was to tell stories. If you want to be in relationships with
people and connect with them and work together with them.
You have to know their story. You have to know them.
Tell stories,
tell stories. We tell stories.
Telling stories. For the last 20 years
I've been I've been telling fables and telling stories,
fables on the turntable some shit like that, yes, of course,
fables,
to connect with the people. It doesn't matter about what my
policies are, it doesn't matter about who supports us, it
doesn't matter about anything. If you could tell a great story,
and connect with the person, you can sell them anything.
And my wife has been a marketer and communications expert all of
her career. And this is exactly her words, say if you can tell a
story you can get people to buy in and believe. And that's
that's what marketers do all day long tell stories, it doesn't
necessarily mean that you're giving him the truth, or
educating them. You're telling a story to communicate an idea
true, false or indifferent.
What it does is it lowers that wall down. And just to bring
this full circle, where we're at. Once you lower that wall
down of No, when people try to say You sound as natural, they
have a barrier there. Because it's like you're trying to
separate me from my money, which your money is your power, right?
So you're trying to separate with me, once you are able to
lower that wall down, and that's the whole theory of this whole
episode. They use the useful, useful ADA to lower that barrier
down. The influencer has that barrier there. The pitch man has
that barrier there. The camera TV commercial has that barrier
there. Now they had a new tool, and that's the useful ad online.
That barrier is not naturally there. And you you believe them?
You know when you buy a sandwich saying, Hmm, that was good. He's
not getting paid by Popeyes. It must be really good. You know,
and then when you fast forward and look at Obama, what'd he
say? We've been telling stories. He gets up there gives you a
great, wonderful story. You lower that barrier down. Now we
can say the pitch. It doesn't matter about who you know what
my policies are. It doesn't matter, helping change how you
quantify that you can't?
Well, you know who else is a good storyteller on today's
stage? Of course, of course. Kamala Harris is fantastic
storyteller.
And you know who else is Mr. Donald Trump? Oh, he's that's
why he can go for hour and a half. It's
as an elephant. He doesn't know how to nudge subtly but yeah, he
can. That's right. And he's got your nostalgia make America
great. Again, literally calling back to nostalgic times.
Although misinterpreted by many. Yeah, great storytellers. That's
yeah, that's, that's what you need. That's interesting, which
it's interesting about Trump, because he truly is the first
internet president, Barack Obama was incapable of the
interpersonal type of communication style or dialogue
even that is necessary to make social media work. Now it was
there were no examples. It was early to I don't think he really
no, there was no one who really understood how that work at the
time. And the basing on old metrics. Trump figured I think
he's already always known this make a lot of noise. Big noise,
big, big any No, and he's very good. Scott Adams, the Dilbert
cartoonist, wrote a book about persuasion and how Trump was
going to win. And he predicted it based on Trump's persuasion
techniques, which goes right back to the beginning of this
program. The Edward Bernays.
Yes, and for lack of a better term, Chuck is the useful idiot
in this situation. The reason why I say that is not in the how
that sound. But he's had a pain on everything. So he doesn't
appear to be an influencer. It's natural. When he says something
is naturally received, because he has opinion on everything. So
he's perceived the same way. As the guy that Popeyes we used to
say, Oh, this guy, you know,
just as another blogger, he's just a Twitter guy with a lot of
followers. Right? Yeah.
He's not trying to say you suck. I mean, he's not that's not
would be his role. He says what he says and what he feels, that
will be the perception. That's Brock. Obama goes to tweet.
Yeah, it's an agenda base.
Yes. With with bullet point. Right. Yeah. So
I mean, that we're seeing, it's amazing how we've seen these. Is
it the dog, the dog wagging the tail of the tail wagging the
dog?
Well, you made another great point. It works both ways. It
benefits both sides, just like Obama benefited Gandhi retros
retroactively?
Well, the question I asked is, are the advertisers looking back
and looking at studying Trump like, how was he so successful?
Yeah, he doesn't come across as an influencer, that the
conversation may have. I don't know. I don't have more of a
question. But well, I
think I think generally accepted is that it was the beef. It was
an ongoing beef situation. And here came the under hurricane
Popeyes of politics. Donald Trump lumbering along and he
goes, Hey, you guys suck your chicken sandwich. No, good. No,
it's bad. It's sad. And then that it turned into a media
frenzy. And it was Donald Trump 24/7 throughout the entire
election cycle. And he was the Popeye's of that election.
Sleepy Joe Pocahontas. Low Energy jab. I mean, he was.
Well, he had he had the branding down to that's all part of the,
of the persuasion game. And that's, that's the clap back.
That's a slap down whatever you want to call it.
That was the point I'm making that he lacks himself on to Jeb
Bush, if Jeb Bush would have brushed him off and paid him no
attention. He can't win. Right. But he made that attack so
potent, that you have to reply back. And when you've done that,
you brought him to your level and then in they then you don't
have the leverage anymore.
Yeah, so here's the challenge. Here's the challenge for
companies like Twitter. And I agree, that's obviously that's
where I mean, we're going to see almost $2 billion of digital
advertising for this entire election, 6.8 billion in total,
of which just under 3 billion goes to television, and there's
a piece to radio and print etc. But still almost 2 billion for
for digital. They've got to keep that in in check. They got to
keep it in track if they're using these types of campaigns.
And, and I cannot thank you enough for bringing this
particular one to my attention. Moreover, because of the
sensitivity of the topic, which I'd still like to explore how
that's working out, they have to control the messaging. And I
envision them having a dashboard with dials, that artificially
creates what Donald Trump was able to do by himself amazingly,
but you dial it up a little bit, bring some some pro people in
it, sprinkle in a little bit of contrast, dial it back a bit,
it's moving too far, the algorithms they use and these
are just levers it's literally like a like a mixing board. They
can mix that they can mix in these levels that you're seeing
in your feed is very powerful stuff and very, very hidden and
tricky and kind of not nice.
But you're from the advertising world. And I would want to say
this one thing you can't create a good salesman no matter what
you can't create a good sales so that's the that's the one thing
is that you can't manufacture so they are
in fact it's funny you say that every company I have run or
owned the sales team. Not the same, but we're often like
Donald Trump. It's the kind of person and they can these the
great sales people and sell almost anything
is costly, authentic, not authentic, positive sense of the
word but without any positive or negative. There's this
authentic. And that goal just to close this out. If going back to
the show Mad Men, Donald Draper was that kind of person. He
would be all out and out all night whoring drinking asleep in
his office. And they may go wake him up. You're saying he shave.
Welcome to the royal give your
speech page on bam. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, he was the best
authentic in his own way. Absolutely. So is the American
factory is that the name of the production company? The Obamas
have
noticed the name of their their first film. Oh, okay. And I
don't know anything about it.
Is there anything? Is it out yet?
Yes, it's out. And it's China's influence on I
can't believe I haven't. So why have I not heard of this? Why am
I not watching it? What's going wrong with their marketing?
I don't know. That's a good question. I one thing is the
people that want to talk about this on the wrong side of the
argument. I wonder why. Why. I have a theory why. But I think
this is for the Joe Biden crowd. Right. So
the message is not getting to me.
Right. I think this is more for the Joe Biden crowd. You know,
Sam, for those people that may be pro Trump but willing to
swing and Joe Biden to show and it cleans up Joe's
trying to mess Yeah. I can't I can't believe that, that Obama
is is doing that. I mean, yeah, well, I guess he'd wants to
preserve his legacy through Joe. But geez.
Well, they probably said, Hey, man, you got to give us this
one. They're hurting right now. I mean, I mean, you brought it
up. I mean, they can't let Oh, I'm clipping the clock run
again, man.
She's gonna swoop in before you know it. She'll be all over us.
mo, mo, this was fantastic. It reminded me a lot of things that
I've studied in the past that I was I have applied as well. It
was great to bring this back. And man, you blew my mind about
the about the chicken conversation? And what I'd like
to know is do you think that this this is now going to become
more acceptable? To discuss thanks to this? What chicken?
You're like?
No, I don't. It was it was never about that. No, I
know. But isn't
it what I think is is? This is why I think, one, I think for
certain people, this conversation will never be a
comfortable conversation with any stereotype. I think that's
the same thing you see it with, not to list out certain ways you
see, with certain groups, we don't try to talk about our
power influence. We don't like to talk about our, you know, our
intelligence in certain subjects, you know, it's very
uncomfortable. So I don't think you will ever be comfortable. I
think this was a masterpiece of a nudge, because it broke that
threshold. That's the what, that's what I wanted to point
out is the natural reflex to say, I don't want to talk about
this. But if so. Ah, such No, such a powerful wave that you
get sucked up in it. I think, I think when Twitter or whoever
goes back, and they can show it every other people, they sell
advertisements who like, look, we were able to break this taboo
threshold didn't Well we could do for your company. I think
that was the play the play in place. I agree.
And I'm very curious now to see if they're going to try and
replicate this with other taboo topics. I can already think of a
couple which I'll withhold but and some may already be brewing,
which I haven't seen yet. And maybe other people figure this
out, and start doing it with their own properties.
Because I think that's where airbrush Edward Bernays was able
to say like, bro, I got limits smoking cigarettes.
And that's exactly how he said it to. Just imagine that. Well,
this has been fantastic mo I always learned so much chatting
with you. I love it. It's fantastic.
I'm glad you enjoy and I hope the listeners did too. Yeah. And
beware of the nudge. It's not like society
where of the nudge indeed. A quick mention that we are now
running this on To the value for value system, that means you
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.com through Paypal or cash app. All right, Moe, thank you again.
As always, it's a pleasure. And I always say pay attention to
everything and the truth will reveal itself.
And make sure you subscribe to this podcast and your your
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to you next week. Thanks again most talk to you soon man. All
right, see you later. All right, bye bye.